The Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei Experience
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2020
- We return to the beginnings of the Megaten franchise with an extended discussion of the Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei novels, OVA, and video game adaptations for the MSX, PC-88, and Famicom. Jump in from the beginning, or check out the timestamps below to skip to what you're interested in.
Timestamps:
Book #1 and OVA - 0:55
Book #2 - 9:24
Book #3 - 12:00
Telenet Megami Tensei - 14:20
Atlus Megami Tensei - 19:14
Thanks, and feel free to discuss in the comments. - Hry
In defense of "use computer to summon demons", the first book describes how Nakajima had studied old books of demon summoning. He realized that performing a demon summoning ritual - specifically the part about running through a complex set of instructions on what to chant and the like - is basically a low tech version of running a computer program. Do it correctly, and a thing happens (in this case, summoning a demon). It's processing information, and Nakajima realized the computer could do that faster, and with much less preparation on the part of the ritualist.
So it's less like computers being magic, and more like using a computer to automate the casting of a spell. I found it very clever.
I think I remember that the Cathedral of Shadows in SMT IV was basically like that, Mido was like a normal human that studied Demons and found out a way to summon demons into the world using computers.
tech casters
@@hibikikuze2808 Same with Binary Fusion.
This concept was reused in COMPs in Devil Survivor iirc
As a programmer and speaking from the point of view of fiction and fantasy, I do not see the idea of a computer program that could invoke demons absurd. Let's think about it like this: Many real spells are based on drawing different symbols and geometric shapes with exact angles and trajectories, sometimes in alignment with celestial bodies that require complex calculations. What would take months to calculate for sorcerers and medieval scholars, a computer could do it in seconds with the appropriate data, being able to manage these summoning circles in a few seconds, making it easier to summon supernatural beings. Likewise, in the same way that we accept the idea that the magic words of a spell written on a scroll can give it power when reading it, why not be that the same spell stored in the form of data (binary, hexadecimal, octadecimal ) empower the program that executes that data? With imagination every idea is plausible.
"you're in Micon city on the 8th floor of Daedalus tower, and you better get familiar with this room because you're gonna be back here an awful lot."
when he wrote that Marsh had no clue just how prophetic that would be for him
As of "The Majin Tensei Experience," it happened again.
@@tehandroidmaster As of Last Bible Gaiden, well...
@@UltimaKeyMaster Fingers crossed for Majin Tensei 2?
@@tehandroidmasterI’m just hoping he realized the joke with smt IV, mikado is a 3 floor castle with five naraku stratum’s below to get to Minotaur… and it IS a dungeon… so essentially in that game your living in the dang tower
IIRC, the reason the author thought of the whole "computer can summon demons" thing was because of astronomy. Basically, he was super into astronomy ever since childhood, and worked on making astronomical computer programs (simulating planetary movements, shit like that) in adulthood. At one point, he read about Western black magic traditions and how they were heavily linked to astronomy (doing a ritual when the planets align or when Venus is in the sky or whatever), and thought "well, computers can simulate that stuff really accurately, so what happens if you tried to do that ritual with a computer?" And thus, the Demon Summoning Program was born.
That is actually really smart IMO
Magnificent
That's really cool if it's true! Do you have a source for that information?
That's actually clever.
Has anyone ever tried it lol
I watched the OVA and the funniest thing to me was how Nakajima did the "tragically scream the name of the person who just died" take for Yumiko and I was like "Dude, you barely talked to her and then brutally tried to sacrifice her 10 minutes ago!".
And then he gets flashbacks of the "good times" with Yumiko, which include her being pushed and tentacled.
Nakajima's fucked up as hell and that's funny xD
That movie is literally my entire knowledge of MT and it made me question how much got lost on translation/adaptation
where can I watch the OVA
That was his Fetish
@@Sigismund697 quite a lot. i like the OVA but it is not at all a good way to experience Nishitani's story.
Dude you rule
I really appreciate it - been watching your videos for like four years, keep it up man
43 MINUTES AGO WHAT
What are you doing here my boy?
Bro you gotta get to the third semester love your vids mate
Ñ
Canonically, the devil summoner program was written in Fortran...frankly, THAT'S the real Black Magic.
Fortran? A programming language? Anything of note about it?
JESUS GOD
Why is Fortran nasty
Late reply but, it’s just a really low level, old, and tedious to use language, I doesn’t really exist anymore except for some legacy systems and specialists, tried it once, it sucks, writing literally anything in it would summon a demon.
@@jackmister00 Yup, basically this. It's god awful
I love how Nakajima is a Whitesnake fan
Just think, if Ian Gillan and Ritchie Blackmore never fell out, the entire MegaTen franchise might not exist
Someone make this an AMV
@@ChrisStoneinator TRUE. Ian Gillan is definitely a jackass too, so i don't blame Richie Blackmore a bit. back in 2016 Deep Purple(Mark 2 and Mark 3) got inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame, and Gillan REFUSED to let anyone who wasn't in DP with him play at the ceremony. no Coverdale, no Glen Hughes, etc. despite them having extremely popular songs with Deep Purple
the class act that is Cheap Trick more than made up for it, letting Coverdale and Hughes play with them instead.
"Dad, what is a computer?"
"It's magic Joel, its magic."
That's the most appropriate quote from Vinesauce Joel ever used.
Ever since that day, little Joel was never the same. *summons lucifer from his computer using viruses*
Instead of a succubus you summon a desktop stripper.
@@Eyetrauma that's pretty much the same
@@Eyetrauma
"Joel goddammit, I need to pay my taxes and now this demon's sucking me off to death."
...I have never seen a game that is a better example of "Old RPGs hate you"
This game loves to cause you pain at every turn
There's old school length extension a then there's fucking sadism
Nocturne fans: but Matador
Early MT/SMT fans: *laughs in permanent level loss*
You've never heard of Wizardry 4 then I guess.
I wonder if it was just me, or does Atlus still have a problem balancing the difficulty of the endgame? While I loved Persona 5, it was kind of bull crap that I had to load an old save and kill the grim reaper twice on a flu season day just to have enough stats to defeat Shido, or else grind for hours on pitifully weak enemies
@@megabyte01 Persona 5 is easy, Royal even further, but going for vanila P5, you don't need to grind at all, just fuse a good persona and that's it, like Mot for example
@@megabyte01 P5 is easy if it's not your first megaten game
You missed the part in the third novel where after killing Nakajima, Yumiko commits suicide. Because y’know, can’t let anyone get a happy ending in Megaten!!
I think she's still alive in New Digital Devil Story, but you could be right. Maybe they bring her back from the dead or something wonky like that?
@@MarshSMT Yes, Izanami sacrifices herself to bring Yumiko back, based on what I've heard.
@@byssted wait, where did You Hear that?
@@MarshSMT Logically speaking... why would someone resurrect someone who committed suicide? Wouldn't they just do it again?
@@chronosanaki5174 Maybe, depends they might feel obligated to live.
The third one sounds like as if Go Nagai gave up on devilman half way through and just tossed up a conclusion so that he could get more time to work on mazinger.
“Man smt 3 nocturne is hard” Marsh: *Ptsd of Hell grinding in megami tensei*
I mean grinding isn't really hard. It's just doing the same thing over and over
@@arumaru3433 Megami tensei grinding can be. There are monsters in the games that can de-level you and undo a ton of progress if you don't reset to your last save. It's not as prevalent with the later games, but the original had a couple of sections, and even a boss where it would happen a lot.
@Royal Messiah have you played Megami Tensei?
@Royal Messiah that's true for games like nocturne but these games expect you to be at a certain level to beat and will still have you barely making it out. Not to mention the out of battle items you need to get to finish the game, making it an absolute chore if you missed them the first time. I remember trying to play this game coming from smt 1 and I died in the first or second random battle despite my stats being what they should be.
@Royal Messiah relax dude wtf, lmao
It's crazy to think that without this 80s Malware Death Note edgy tale, we'd never have Persona 5 fans asking for Switch ports on Twitter
Tip for anyone bat shit crazy enough to attempt this game:
Every boss in this game has no elemental weakness. They take half damage from Physical and Electricity, 1/3 damage from Expel,
1/4 from Ice and Force, and reflect Fire. This basically means just have Yumiko on support since she basically just learns fire.
That's specifically for the Kyuuyaku version. For the most part, normal elemental resistances as we know them in most MegaTen games don't exist in the original.
@@vonithipathachai8449... does that mean the Kyuuyaku version is harder? I wanted to play it, too :(
@@xykros Not really. Being given a minimap makes traveling not painful. And if you're hurting for levels using Bien to travel farther and kill enemies higher leveled than you will give you alot of EXP.
I played it. Beat it. And liked it. Yeah it’s dated but it was fun and I was surprised to see just how much freedom it gave me. Seriously after the second boss you can fast travel anywhere in the game! Got some super good items early on. It was tough but so worth it.
Basically bosses are merely level-checks rather than special challenges?
It's been a while but here's a fun fact that just came out not too long ago.
The Author admitted he made the books because he thought of the legend of Izanagi and Izanami and thought "Wow, Izanagi's a coward. I simply would have done it differently."
YEAH BASICALLY
Nishitani thinks izanagi is a jackass so he wrote a story where Izanagi is reincarnated and is STILL a jackass
At least this time isn't much of a coward. In this time, he is a sociopath who wants to get retribution, even if it's overblown.
And if you pick either the sequel manga or the original game, he (sorts of) fixed everything.
He still needs to learn, but now he is in the right direction.
Someone give this man the awars for the most patient masochist of 2020
I'm sorry, but that award goes to Your Movie Sucks for his Kimba video.
@@ThatOneGuyYouSaw15 you could look away from Kimba and laugh at it, this game is just pain and grinding and more pain
@@noxturne16 i dunno man, dude went the extra mile and became the world's leading expert on the series out of spite. not even being hyperbolic
@@ThatOneGuyYouSaw15 hmm that is true, however, his Kimba video can be beaten by the upcoming Lion King 2019 review
Hard to find this level of human suffering outside of liveleak. Thanks, Marsh!
It's about as raw as you can get without violating the terms of service
The amount of suffering in this one vid is enough that even liveleak would not want it
This is some fucking deep web shit more likely
"you will find me dead before me playing this game again"
Aged like milk
“You’ll find me dead before I play this game again.”
That was a good joke. Bro has excellent dramatic irony skills.
Dude in the 80s summons a demon on his computer and 30 years later in the same franchise, a different guy gets arrested for assault, kills god, and claps the cheeks of his homeroom teacher.
What a series.
-kills a god, not THE god.
Yhvh's as slippery as they come.
Wanderin'_Stud I thought gnostics believe yaldabaoth is the god of the old testament?
W e l l yaldaboth in that game isn’t actually god sooooo
@@edamame1443 ultimately, he’s kinda a shadow, so he’s not the real god. Just like nyx in persona 3 isn’t the real nyx, just an avatar.
Ren Amamiya?
dds:mt impresses me because it was released a year after Dragon Quest 1 and despite some of the rougher game design decisions it is still clearly a megaten game. like the fact so many rudimentary systems that would later be perfected with SMT 1 (which added even more ahead of their time game design choices) are so identifiably there demon negotiation being described as "more simplified" while still functioning similarly enough you could just pick it up is really impressive and i think atlus deserves props.
I was bullied, but even I think this guy is pretty messed up. *He got a demon to violate his teacher!*
Yeah Nakajima basically sold everyone out, he's a pretty terrible guy for our first hero.
Yeah. Nakajima is *Insane*
To be fair, I don't think he anticipated Loki to be such a horndog...
@@MarshSMT your comment says Nakajima, but I keep reading it as Griffith.
@@FromBeyondTheGrave1 griffith did nothing wrong
To resume the second book :
>The professor that helps nakajima is like the director of a group of demon summoning that nakajima is part of and the police officer is just a police officer helping because they can't ignore the shit happening and nakajima convinces the police about demons by cerberus
>Seth is summoned to earth by the hand of the brother of the professor, the dude is also a demon summoner but bad and wants to wreck shit, he does a pact with seth so he is safe (a important thing that nakajima didn't know about and that's why Loki turned on him, he had no contract)
>The bad dude, the summoner, starts controlling people in the japanese gov by using seth powers but i don't remember why, it amounts to pretty much nothing if i remember correctly
>The baddies send ohara to make some orphans, and yumiko gets captured
>A bunch of days pass while the good guys look for yumiko, nakajima trains with the sword
>Seth goes to a town and starts fusing people in a flesh tower, he does that to make a electromagnetic field that he needs to be fully summoned and yumiko is at the center of the tower
>The good guys go to the place because is pretty obvious that thousands of people are gathering (naked) in a flesh tower
>The good guys rush to the scene and find the place full of demons but nothing happens
>They get to the tower and shit hits the fan when the summoner appears fused with a demon snake
>blam blam blam slash slash slash
>the police officer is the reincarnation of a moon god, dude transforms into the god for like 5 minutes to give nakajima and the professor a chance to escape, gets killed
>nakajima goes to the tomb of izanami and she gives him the robe that allows him to fly so he can fight seth at the top of the tower, however, the robe is the only link that she has to the material world so she goes puff and dissapears
>the professor tells nakajima that a nuke will do but nakajima refuses and says that is better to fully summon seth in space, international shenanigans ensue (no really) because only the americans have a satellite with a electromagnetic field strong enough to pull off the move and they fear that ruskies misinterpret the situation. They do it anyways
>Nakajima goes to the tower and fights seth to distract him
>Seth pops in the space and the tower collapses
>slash slash slash
>Seth dies and the satellite explodes but leaves a hole to the demon world
>"oh shit"
>End of the book
Hey this also works as a summary of why the books are terrible
@@DimT670 Elaborate. The books aren't master pieces but i think they are far from bad.
what the fuck
This sounds amazing! You had me at giant naked flesh tower.
@@fernandotena7093 you yourself laid out the nonsense that is this books plit do you genuinely think these are in any way good books?
That first MSX game has a built in depiction of a bullied high schooler's constant anxiety. Just a little dialogue that says "BE FOUND" every time you feel someone's eyes on you.
Is that really what it's for? I always saw that there and thought it was a very wonky way of saying the enemy was after you, like they translated it poorly into English or something. Pretty interesting.
11:08-11:34
The reason computers and programming are used to summon demons in this series is because the book's author, Aya Nishitani, noticed that zodiac mysticism and computer simulation were often used for the same thing: simulating and predicting the movement of the stars in the sky. He figured "ok if these pagans think you summon demons with like Jupiter and Scorpio and stuff, and computers are really good at tracking the movement of Jupiter and Scorpio... what if computers are really good at summoning demons?" And that's why we have the COMP in both the novels, and all the games afterward
I gotta slightly disagree with one take from this video. I still find the idea of a demon summoning program super compelling. The idea of all the incantations and seals being executed on a program in a matter of seconds is still rad, and makes some type of sense. I can already see the linked lists and logic needed for different demons. It's super cool.
Loki probably used the bank becasue in the book it's kinda described that you need good hardware/supercomputers and lots of ram to summon him. Maybe a Japanese bank had the infrastructure?
Yeah, they actually do explain it iirc. It was the closest powerful computer to his destination so he summons himself there.
"Then she dies again"
*Starts playing calm music*
Man, to think Steven Hawking would blatantly steal a teenager's work and get away with it because hes dead
Well not all DSApps were created by Stephen so you could say Nakajima's is his own creation
Reuploaded because the audio sounded like total ass before. Well, this was a long time in the making, and it's finally done. Nakajima's story isn't always a pretty one, but I came to really like it and overall I'm glad I went through the effort of reading, watching, and playing all of this. MT1 is a tough game, and I often wanted to quit, but I pushed through and here we are. Thanks to all who check this out, next up I'll probably look at Shin Megami Tensei: NINE or Last Bible.
I think Last Bible the same game as Revelations: The Demon Slayer? I played that as a kid on GBC, and it is really fun and pretty easy. It might be a good change of pace for you after slogging through these last games.
@@foxhound6364 Yes and no, Revelations is Last Bible 2.
"You're gonna run around in mazes that change color every once in a while" so tartarus?
_Of course_ twinky protagonists have been in the series since the very beginning. Makes the response to the SMT5 protagonist even funnier.
Yeah it's even in the first few pages, twinks from the very beginning
Hey i ain't complaint if im being honest
Nanashi legit has the option to crossdress in his game lmao
I think it’s even worse there. I mean the SMT 5 protagonist is so all over the place in the gender spectrum, it may as well be a literal non-binary teenager. And I hate the concept of the thing to begin with! But at least this would’ve been more sensible.
Cactus_Juice - Oh screw off, you know what I’m trying to get at here.🙄
Nakajima's backstory reminds me a lot of Hazama. I have a feeling if this was set in America... let's just say they wouldn't be using demons.
I mean Speesh Mahreen beat up 2 God creatures with GUN
Therefore GUN>Demon
Dope video, and お疲れさまでした for all the suffering. This channel deserves more attention from us bloodsucking megaten fans. I have two metric tons of stuff to say about the first game, so here's my doctoral thesis. Maybe this audience can learn a thing or two from my shared experience.
1: 40:28 Yeah, every time you attempt the mask thing, you gotta reset the game state completely. If you walk back right after being teleported to the start town and WITHOUT getting a password and resetting the console, Izanami doesn't show up again. This was some hot bullshit. Can't provide any pictures of my face though.
1.5: And better yet, one thing you didn't mention is that Izanami is OPTIONAL. She's not a fail state! All she does is give you her cloak that nullifies the damage from the fire walls, and by the time you've figured her shit out (there are no hints for what order the gems go in, so it'll be a couple of times without a guide!) you won't have any reason to be in that dungeon anyway, or you'll be more than able to manage the damage with the party healing spell. Skipping her doesn't lock you out of the end of the game or even change the ending, even though the manual kept hyping up how _"you have to save Izanami from Lucifer's imprisonment!!",_ so you're better off just listening to her cool theme for a bit and then dumping her dog ass. Goddamn.
2: In this game, Tetraja protects you from the level drain for one encounter; Yumiko never learns it but I found it to be oddly common in the demon fusion pool. It's an important counter for Set, and I guess you can use it before running away from the other (worthless) level-draining demons to be safe. _It'd be cool if the manual TOLD you what it actually does though!!_ Basically this level drain shit was taken from older western dungeon crawlers like Wizardry that were designed around being cheap and unpredictable, but it just seems stupid in a much simpler and longer game like this one. Thankfully they'd left all that behind by the 90s when JRPGs had established their own identity as less torturous.
3: Did you do any of your own mapping for this game? That was my biggest time sink and source of fun, and I think taking my time with that meant the bosses' difficulty curve was less ass, so maybe "getting lost" in the dungeons actually is the answer. I certainly never spent any time sitting in one corner of hell for hours grinding stats up. The end of the manual advertises that this is a classic-style RPG you're supposed to whip out the graph paper for, and its dungeons are more sprawling than probably anything else in the megaten series, meaning there's a lot of mapping to do to make sure you've seen everything and talked to everyone. The Kyuuyaku version's grind curve was apparently a lot shallower and the various modernizations the game received (like SMT1/2-style automapping) were probably the reason for that adjustment.
3.5: That being said, there were way too many empty rooms in this game, and not enough stuff to discover, for the game to reach the heights that stuff like gold-box AD&D did. That was my biggest problem; if you try and map the whole thing, it'll waste your time often. It's like SNES SMT stretched thin over a classic dungeon-crawler's skeleton. Eeugh.
4: I just wanna mention for those unaware that this game has a New Cycle mode, triggered if you wait on the game end screen for a while and then immediately start a new game. It moves the heretic's manors/recovery springs/shops around to hostile areas and doubles the HP of all enemies. Have fun sleeping tonight!
Bonus fun fact, I think this was according to some artbook but it escapes me. Apparently Kazuma Kaneko played this game before he worked at Atlus (without knowing who developed it, since it was just a NAMCOT game), and he enjoyed it. Guess we all like getting dicked around by demonic tubs of HP. And it was a good thing he was into it, because megaten 2 is a gem and his spritework for it is some of the coolest shit I've seen in an 8 bit game, like straight-up mindblowing. Translator Tom tweeted that he's working to patch the Famicom version again, so hopefully its atmosphere, weird writing charm, and excellent chiptunes will be available to English-speaking audiences soon in its original package.
Thanks again for selling your sanity!
This is an awesome comment, I'm gonna pin it for people that might be interested in playing the game. I didn't know most of this stuff, and the guide I referenced for fusions and certain things when I got stuck didn't mention any of it either. Very interesting.
Izanami being optional makes perfect sense, but I didn't realize until after playing that she didn't give you anything that you couldn't live without. I figured after reading the books and seeing the movie and all that, Izanami is important, so you must have to rescue her, right? I can imagine walking all the way back after entering the fail state would be a terrible feeling. I didn't know about Tetraja either, I'm not sure if I just never tried casting it or I never had a demon with it, but it would have been good to know for Set especially.
I did some of my own mapping, though for places like Daedalus and the sky city I ended up sort of internalizing the layouts in my head. I didn't probably explore as much as I should have, so I ended up sort of lower level near Mazurka. As a result, the grind was absurdly steep, but somehow I managed to push myself through it. Not something I'd want to do again lmao
Didn't know about the New Cycle either, sounds like a nightmare, I'll probably never attempt such a thing because it was torture enough already. That's funny that Kaneko liked it. I honestly do too, but I doubt I'll ever touch it again, I think most of my love for it came from using it as language practice and the novelty of it being one of the first games. Maybe if I go totally insane one day I'll try the KMT version.
Again, awesome comment, you sound very knowledgeable about the game and tips/info like this are the exact sort of thing I would have loved to see while I was playing through it.
@@MarshSMT Same with Izanami, how the hell were we supposed to know?? Old megaten manuals were the _worst,_ they practically exist to be vague and misleading.
Thank you, and I'm hyped for your future content!
"-its dungeons are more sprawling than probably anything else in the megaten series"
*Has intense flashbacks to Erianus from Strange Journey*
Oh dear god.
@@Rellik165 Well hey, dungeons like Eridanus were mostly just a _single floor_ of insanity. Plus they were much less boring. Imagine an entire game of overly large, gimmicky dungeon-crawling bullshit.
(...imagine SMT2)
@@notbaldfrost I still need to play that game. And because I am a stubborn madman, I still need to finish SMT1 before I buy it.
U know when you said "guess where the white crystal is" my first guess was the beginning of the game lol
As insane as this sounds: You've convinced me to go aaaaaaaall the way through the entire main line franchise, starting with Megami Tensei 1. Granted, I'm using Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei for the NES era titles, but still ;)
Glad I was convincing enough! Megami Tensei is rough, but it's a cool game if you're into the historical aspect of it. Good luck, let me know how it goes!
@@MarshSMT I started yesterday and have just reached the Valhalla Corridor.
I, to my shame, have never actually managed to completely finish a single Megaten game. I'm determined to change that by beating all of them!
@@yannickluecker3983 Making good progress so far then - it's a hell of a game to finish first, I respect that
@@MarshSMT I get the feeling the Kyuuyaku version is easier though. Were there rooms with guaranteed single monster spawns in the NES version? I grinded myself up to level 16 on a Nekomata before minotaur and just kind of stomped him...
That said, I'm already level 19 before Bien. But that probably just means Rag and me are gonna have a one night stand instead of a three day orgy. I won't get my hopes up when it comes to not becoming his b*tch boy -_-
@@yannickluecker3983 NES does have specific rooms where a monster spawns, but only once, so you can't grind the same one. The exp growth seems to be sort of random, some very tough enemies gave little while other weaker magic-casting types would give huge amounts.
3:48 never have I ever meant these words with such intensity before:
_Didn't see _*_that_*_ comin'._
Digital devil story small details you forgot:
SPOILERS
From the megaten wiki
Yumiko killed herself after nakajima died. Izanami picks up his corpse and goes to bury it
Nakajima appears to go crazy both from the shock and that"a Demon whispers in his ear" the existence of art of lucifer vs izanami might be because lucifer influenced him
There are SIX sequel novels to the original trilogy .about the fight with lucifer.. But there isnt really a summary of any of them
According to tv tropes, the Main characters still get Downer endings
Welp. We've got Six Sequel Novels to find and translate.
You should try to publish this content in the megaten subreddit or other online SMT communities so more people could know about all this media most fans haven't even touched. Your suffering needs to be compensated in some way. Anyways, amazing video, kind of similar to the two you made about If..., and I mean it in a good way because both of them were amazing and also one of the only content we have about these kind of "obscure" entries.
I appreciate the concern - honestly, this video got a lot more views than I thought it would, so I'm quite happy with the outcome. Maybe I'll try out posting them on the subreddit sometime.
You know, some aspects about Nakajima's initial character sort of reminds me of Seto Kaiba from Yu-Gi-Oh. Hear me out on this one: He's an ace student and a rich prick who is proud of his superior mind, has a shitty family life, and is dismissive to everybody. Nakajima also happens to be a tech wiz who comes up with an elaborate program involving supernatural creatures. This last point also ties Nakajima to a cycle caused by the actions of his past life. I know that after the story's first act, Nakajima's character arc goes to a completely different direction to Kaiba's, but the similarities are worth pointing out. Kazuki Takahashi was in his 20's by the time the novels were released, so he might have been a fan.
So... does Kaiba have a team mainly comprised of Drakes, Dragons, and Brutes?
Unfortunately, it’s too late to ask Takahashi about the inspiration now.
"You'll find me dead before I play this again"
I have this odd feeling that will be sooner than we think.
Jokes aside the algorithm brought me to your If review and I have been enjoying your stuff! Already subbed!
This is my new favorite Megaten channel!
This sounds like it was made by demons that used old school dnd modules as their reference in fair game design
I get the distinct impression that the author hated the games and wrote that third book to make everyone miserable.
Guess he got bored of Nakajima since the books kept going without him
NOOO YOU CAN’T JUST CHANGE MY WORK TO MAKE IT MORE EXPANSIVE!!
Haha one more god rejected
I always figured he didn’t know how to end his story and also couldn’t forget what nakajima done in the first book since he caused all of it to happen
@@some_guy117 alternatively the author loves tragedies
The third book is a piece of shit, not a tragedy
I've never heard of Megami Tensei or anything related, but this has got to be one of the coolest videos I've ever seen. As a total stranger to the series / game / anime / story / whatever, I think you did an excellent job explaining the crazy story and the insane gameplay. It really felt like I was suffering with you - it is easy to say that a game is difficult, but when you went beyond that by describing your exact frustrations. It would be heartwarming to watch more of these kinds of videos, where I am able to temporarily view another universe through the lens of someone who seems to know what they are doing. Encore! More soul-wrenching gameplay and bizarre stories! Subscribed and liked =)
Thanks, I really appreciate it - it's pretty funny that these are being recommended to people who have never heard of Megami Tensei, I figured it would only be shown to those who watch videos like this all the time. Glad to hear it caught your interest, I'm actually working on a video for the sequel to this game at the moment.
13:43 This is The Last of Us 2 before that was a thing! Also reminds me of the Final Fantasy X - 3 book, where Tidus gets killed by a blitzball that's actually a bomb.
I'm glad CZcams started recommending your videos, I'm new to Megami Tensei games and started playing the most famous titles and watched the OVA, enjoying it very much so far. Watching people talk about this franchise just makes me want to play more! I would like to see your channel grow so more people could enjoy it too :)
I appreciate it. I was making these for the 100 people subbed to me for a few months, so it's cool to see more interest. Hopefully I can live up to that expectation, glad to hear you checked out the OVA and stuff.
Describing the plot of the first book is fun, if only to see the looks on their faces. ESPECIALLY if they're already SMT and/or Persona fans.
After all the sh!t Nakajima went through in the novels he should be a summonable demon in later installments.
I do hope he reappears someday, either as a summon or a bonus boss or something
@@MarshSMT Ahother Bible:I'm gonna head ight out
@@MarshSMT Nakashima appears as an Easter egg in some games. In Devil survivor 2 appears as one of the bidders.
permanently deleveling you is one of the worst concept I have heard for rpgs.
Correction: uncontrollable deleveling in encounters by skills/magic .
blame D&D
@Marcus Mysteriously and "magic fire ignores your super-protective plate armour"
@Aces Spades Funnily enough, Etrian Odyssey features a similar feature - resetting your skill points costs a couple levels, but generally it's worth the payment because either A) You have access to new skills that are the core of a class's kit, thus making them WAY more effective than if you just waited and invested the skill points as you got them or B) You're up against a boss fight or FOE where your more exploration-focused skills aren't very useful or even outright worthless, so you reset your skills to build around eliminating them (and you normally get a level or two in compensation, so you aren't really going back in progress either).
Of course, this doesn't really have as much impact given that most "exploration only" skills are pretty terrible, and that most "boss killer" skills tend to be more than functional against random encounters. Level-up gains are also fixed, so it's not like you can get rerolls for better stats either.
@Aces Spades digimon has this as a mechanic in cyber sleuth, you can de-digivolve 'mons to previous forms which increases the ABI stat much more than evolving (& is needed to access some advanced 'mons). as a bonus it gives you chances to get abilities from other 'mons as you change the evo route
@@Smasher01 funny enough I did play the ds Digimon games that did that, I guess it never bothered me because it was a choice and didn't randomly happen in encounters.(plus it was super easy to level and delevel in those games by the time late game came). I guess I should change my comment to forced deleveling in encounters by rng skills
This video was a legitimate masterpiece, dude. Incredibly well done and entertaining throughout, with some really amazing humor.
Glad you enjoyed it, I have a lot of fun making these
Ngl dude, I really do appreciate you making these videos, especially on megaten games with little to no documentation online, Hell, if you livestreamed the playthrough while you got footage, I would be watching them live if I could lol. And thanks for not quitting while you were almost at the top, you really are a trooper. Still, I'm glad you got to the franchise that has my favourite OST out of all the megaten games, hopefully you check out the arrange version where they use actual instruments for the tracks and you can hear them in their true glory.. Also, set using a /smiling/ move? Perhaps he... /s m i r k e d/ at you and dropped your level?
I know you said you wouldn't do Kyuuyaku, but I would love to see you try that game at some point, it really is a much better experience than the OG DDS.
Keep up the rad work~
I'm always glad to hear that people are interested in these. Yeah, Set has been smirking since the 80s lmao
Streaming this game would have been pretty funny, there were a few days where I did nothing but walk in and out of the same door grinding encounters. Maybe it would have made a nice chill music stream or something.
I may end up trying Kyuuyaku eventually. I used a few tracks from it in this video because the entirety of the Famicom OST is only about twenty minutes long, and I needed some extra ones to round it out. The game actually does look pretty neat with the enhanced graphics and whatnot. It might be a while before I get around to it, but I'd say there's a decent chance I'll take a look at it sometime.
To be honest, I've read the 2 translated books and I thought that, besides the craziness of being able to write a code able to summon demons and going into space, things are somewhat interesting and worth a reading. Knowing that Nakajima dies in the third book, IMO, makes a lot of sense and I'm kinda glad that happened. Although the "let's kill your father in front of you" was kinda uncessary and was put there just to have a little more of shock value, letting an end like this being written is quite refreshing, even more so when we already know how Nakajima was quite the prick before shit hit the fan. His crimes had to be punished at some point so I guess that's the reasoning behind his death..
Eh, at the same time, it sure feels rushed and like a half hearted conclusion because he never beat Lucifer, had he had to sacrifice himself to defeat Lucifer or be punished afterwards it would’ve made sense. Having a half hearted “Everyone dies” is just lazy
Ya know, Nakajima's journey from bullied sociopath proto-school shooter to super cool hero didn't... didn't age very well
Like at all
Also your narration's hilarious
Like, I'd have more sympathy for him if he was only talking to demons for knowledge and/or advice and only wanted to intimidate his bullies and then showed some sort of regret when they actually died, but yeah, that's not what happened. He's way too close to some demon summoning school shooter.
@@nicholasmorgan7609 not excusing him but ... He did get horribly Beat up
@@isauldron4337 I'm just saying it wouldn't have been hard to make him more genuinely sympathetic.
I get the feeling Nishitani probably wanted to make him a villain protagonist but decided not to do it
@@nicholasmorgan7609 nah i agree with you,
Worth noting that he did feel bad about the teacher dying
I fucking love when people go through fucking sluggish grinds and insanely outdated mechanics and graphics in a language I don't understand so I don't have to. This satisfies my curiosity fully and completely, thank you so much. Subscribing 'cause I'm loving this content.
To mega ultra nerd out for a sec, that one line about Nakajima being feminine is similar to how Genji is described in The Tale of Genji, a Heian Japanese epic about a Japanese prince and his escapades in the world of then-contemporary nobility. Doesn't have anything to do with SMT, demons, or anything more than a potential Japanese cultural standard of beauty in men. That is all.
This was a great look at the primordial soup of Megaten. I knew about the books and the OVA but I didn't know there was a third one where Nakajima fucking croaks lol. I like your delivery a lot too, reminds me of someone like Cybershell.
Thanks - the books are pretty wacky, definitely worth a couple hour read if you're into it. Saw your P3 video too, cool stuff.
@@MarshSMT Thanks for the kind words. :)
I'm sad it took me this long to find your channel. But you're amazing!
"Strap on some goggles because we're about to take a deep dive into some shit"
This guy is the weeb AVGN I love him.
I thought you had more of these videos on your channel but now I'm sad and hungry for more content like this. I like the rythm and the overall structure, you actually made me interested in Megami Tensei games. Count me in for future content! Please do more!
Fun fact: Everything after Bien (technically the rotting sea of flames but you don't need to complete it) is entirely optional. All you need to beat the game is Rick's bracelet, and the White Dragon Gem. Since you can fly Bien to the final dungeon right away and savescum until you've power leveled enough to beat Lucifer.
Nakajima, from school genius to demon slayer... In space!
I TURNED MYSELF INTO A DEMON NAKAJIMA, I'M DEMON RICK!!!!!!!!!
In order to pull the Hinokagutsuchi you actually need that the combination of Nakajima's Strength, Vitality, Speed and Magic is higher than a certain value, which I don't remember right now.
But I do remember that as long as you're not wasting Nakajima's levels on Luck, you can hit the benchmark by the end of Bien, right after you beat Medusa. Which it means that if you know the Hinokagutsuchi's secret (cast Mappara on a certain room), you can get the sword right after you free Bien! It's a speedrun trick that honestly can also help on casual playthrough to ease the tedious grinding.
Bear in mind, this only works on the NES version. For the SNES remake, you actually need to make it to the Sea of Flames and grab that Demon within a Bottle, or else the secret door won't open even if you know the trick.
5:05 so I only watched the anime but my impression from the bank scene was that the bank was the only place close by that had an advanced enough computer for Loki to come through at and that is why it was important.
But I'm not really sure the anime cut around a lot.
You are an actual MVP for these videos, I have seen videos on Kyuyaku Megami Tensei but never the original NES Megami Tensei and it’s sequel, and honestly, despite the actual torture it puts you through, I prefer the NES version because not only is it where it all started, but I feel the limitations of the NES heavily assisted in the mood of the game, from the eerie music to the 8-bit sprites leaving a lot to the imagination, like idk about you but even common enemies look scary, such as the blank stare of gnomes I find genuinely creepy, especially with their lack of pupils
Technically there is a book being almost written for Digital devil saga but the writer got sick and just winged it for the game
Long story short: Stay away from the demon in your computer or else your life turns into a something out of a fan fiction.
“It’s like the fog or something?”
**Whos there? Starts playing**
...............why does the premise of the novels sound like something _Death Note_ took inspiration from? I mean, it'd make sense actually.
How?
@@arumaru3433 World's most handsome and intelligent highschool boy makes a deal with a demon to control the fate of other people (i.e. kill them) for his own benefit?
@@EnvyMizuhashi but nakajima was tricked and regretted it like immediately, he wasn't trying to reshape the world or anything. He wasn't some bored kid who got corrupted by insane power. He was instead manipulated by forces higher than him. Nakajima is a tool basically.
@@arumaru3433 I only said DN might've taken inspiration from the premise of this novel I just stated. Like the game DDS Megaten and Pokemon, the similarities don't have to be that grand.
One thing that really stuck with me when reading about the original Megami Tensei novels (keyword: "about", I've never actually touched the books themselves) is how much of a not-good person Nakajima is. He's a self-destructive narcissist when the story starts, and in a lot of ways he's still a self-destructive narcissist by the end. Nakajima does change a lot over the course of the story, but those flaws continue to be a part of his character the whole way through. Personally, I think the fact that a character like Nakajima is our protagonist contributes a lot to the tone and method of storytelling the SMT franchise would continue to employ through the years.
I'd very much like a remake of Atlus' Megami Tensei. Give it an Etrian Odyssey Untold treatment.
SAME. Give it that and some quality of life changes, and more people would be interested in the old games.
that would be the best. the original story from megami tensei with the quality that strange journey had in the 3ds
I don't know if it works on this climate. Atlus probably gonna bow down to RetardEra's demand to alter the narrative.
@@zeroskaterz92 I mean the narrative needs to be altered. The story needs a lot of work lol
@@zeroskaterz92 the entire story is basically "and everyone dies! The end."
who's gonna tell him... THAT THERE IS A SECOND QUEST
In "the end", wait 5 minutes and then bam, second quest to suffer more.
Great video! I love whenever these obscure corners of the franchise are discussed and being played.
I've been looking for videos that breakdown these games and story's for like a week. Thank God the search is over. Great videos
Book One and OVA - 0:55
Book Two - 9:24
Book Three - 12:00
Telenet Megami Tensei - 14:20
Atlus Megami Tensei - 19:14
I don't hate myself quite so much as you hate yourself so I believe I will be staying away from Megami Tensei. I was curious if you were planning on making more reviews in the future? I really like your style of review it reminds me a lot of older youtubers like Spoony just without the long winded skits (thank fuck). I'd like to see you review pretty much anything but more specifically I'd like to see you cover more of the 90's SMT games.
Thanks - I will be going into more of the older or more obscure Megaten games. I just finished scripting for Devil Summoner so that one will be uploaded as soon as I record it and edit it together. From there, not sure. Maybe something weird like Ronde.
@@MarshSMT Cool, I was looking for Devil Summoner footage a couple weeks ago but there's next to none on CZcams so I'm excited to see your video!
Yeah, it looks like it's gonna be a lengthy video for sure. For the sake of there not being any discussion on CZcams, I tried to essentially condense an entire playthrough of the game into around 40-50 minutes, with time for each dungeon and a discussion of the characters and atmosphere.
@@MarshSMT Well on behalf of all the English speaking Megaten fans I thank you for putting all this work into it. Hopefully one day Atlus will make an English translation of it for PC or something.
Those Zeta Gundam looking character desgins.
I have been trying to manifest this exact video for so long, thank you so much for putting thus together
Your recent videos about full Megaten games experiences are great. I can't wait for more!
This video and channel makes me happy. Thanks for making classic MegaTen interesting!
Digital Devil Story Megami Tensei, the original monster collecting JRPG
This video is what got me into Marsh's content
Based and Megami Tensei
33:19 This sounds like the beginning quiz of "Shin Megami Tensei If..."
Playing through this now and there are actually enemies that can drop your level to 1 in the first dungeon
Incredible video! I've decided to start MT franchise in launch order and had read the first 2 novels and played both NES games(actually found your channel while searching for SMTIf videos since I started it recently), and you do a perfect essay in every video of yours
LOVE these long format SMT videos, awesome job, really interesting stuff 👍👍
Yes, the idea is that Beezlebub is a fly and too small to see. His in-game sprite is a single pixel that's the same color as the background
This is legit like the 15th time i've come back to this video. Not only is it genuinely a really good video but I'm also using it as a soft guide for my own personal playthrough of the snes remake of megaten 1 and 2! Hope your vid inspires others to do the same since (maybe the snes version moreso than the original lol) it's actually pretty good!
EDIT: A pro-tip for anyone playing Kyuyaku. After beating Minotaur, on the floor you get Garu's shield there is a demon (in the english patch it's called the Kaiju BUG iirc) that will always spawn in the room just outside of the elevator. Anyways, the important thing is that the demon gives like 200-300 EXP for a while. If you managed to beat Minotaur, Yumiko should have the good fire spell by this point. So spam it to quickly kill the demon, leave the room as if you are going back to the elevator, then go back in to fight the same demon again and grind until Yumiko is just about out of magic, then take the elevator and heal up and continue until you feel like you are at a high enough level or until the demon starts giving crap exp. Then you should be pretty good to go to Bien! Best of luck.
i hope he sees this and realizes these kind of videos do better because i really like them , i even shared them with a friend. do what you want with your channel i just wanted you to know that i liked this.
These are mostly what I'll be doing from now on. Just a few months ago I had like 14 subscribers and uploaded joke videos every so often to share with some people, but now that there's interest in this kind of thing I feel like it'd be cool to keep going.
You even fought Medusa in a high up place in both MT1 and SMT4.
The third novel seems like the author started to really hate the game adaption.
It sounds incredibly similar to what happened with the Popular Witcher Series author. The games were huge hits but the author hates them for some reason. I don't quite comprehend this weird attitude.
Iirc the author hates the games because he sold the game rights for dirt cheap thinking they wouldn't make much money, and then got mad when they turned out to be a success
@@adrianthenormie20 Let me guess, you read that on Reddit
Sapkowski doesn't hate the Witcher games and has gone on camera saying he respects CDPR's work
The thing is he has also said he doesn't like videogames (crazy for a 60 year old man I know) and the game's fandom decided to intepret that as him hating the Witcher games, which then proceeded to spread this misinformation
To make matters worse Sapkowski threatend to sue CDPR because the company refused to give him a share of the success of the Witcher 3 (which is his right as dictated by Polish copyright laws by the way) and many people theorize he did this because he needed money for his son who died recently
He sold the Witcher license to Metropolis Software (later bought by CD Projekt) for cheap because he didn't expect the games to succeed due to previous Witcher adaptations being complete failures (The Hexer)
Of course most of this shit we only got CDPR's side of the story, who do you think manchildren will side with? le wholesome corporation or old man that doesn't like videogames?
@@superheriber27 Nigga i haven't even played the games, that's just what i heard from my friends
@@adrianthenormie20 Cool, tell your friends to not spread lies
@@superheriber27 i will tell them about the dude that posted a bible on a youtube comment lmao
this feels like it's from the early 2010s and that vibes hard as hell
HMMM??...
I first watched the OVA and then the book and god damn I did not know what I was getting into.
Like I know Megaten is weird, but this was just..... interesting to say the least. But enjoyed it a lot though.
These games were remade for the snes on 1994 with the tittle of Kyyuyaku Megami Tensei.
He already made a video about that version a year ago
Man, i CZcams algorithm brought me here, and i just have to congratulate you!!!
You went all this pain, so the rest of us won't. You're the true messiah
Thanks for covering these. I definitely wouldn't torture myself by going back to play these old games, but I appreciate a look at the franchise's origins. I was introduced to SMT back in 2005 with Digital Devil Saga, but wasn't invested until Persona 4 in 2008. Strange Journey in 2010 was my introduction to the mainline SMT games.
Dude I just found your channel last night and I'm going through a rabbit hole of your content and loving every second of it! You're awesome dude!
Personally I never read the books but caught the fly part and teacher part right away. Visually it represents it quite well. But then again not a lot of people are that perceptive.
The most dedicated SMT channel in youtube