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Asmongold Reacts to "WoW Vanilla - Was Old Naxxramas Really That Hard?" by Hamsterwheel
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- čas přidán 15. 08. 2024
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Original Video: • WoW Vanilla - Was Old ...
Mcconnell's Twitch: / mcconnellret
Asmongold's Twitch: / asmongold
Asmongold's Twitter: / asmongold
Vanilla made you feel small and weak but somehow able to win. Current wow just makes you feel like SSj blue Goku fighting baby Raditz
Raid mythic.
it's till the same, honestly. The last time I raided mythic was Antorus and the whole place felt SUUUPER anime....
Raid mythic. Vanilla EZ
@@robertnaylor4018 Don't like mythic raiding anymore
@SinisterMinister 1. I did not rate my own comment and 2. I didn't clear Mythic because I don't enjoy it. It's Hard, yes but it's just not fun for some people like me.
I still play the game but I pretty much just do world quests, farm old content for transmog and PvP. I haven't even seen all the BFA launch dungeons yet cuz the 6 I've seen weren't exciting enough to make me want to see the rest.
Vanilla felt like an adventure and current wow just feel like a boring flashy mess. The SSJ blue comparison isn't to say it's easy, it's to point out how boring it is.
Asmonbald saying Naxx attun was eazy while he was a 12 year old pleb
Naxx attun was easy xD
If you raided from MC to Naxx and you didn´t have the rep and/or gold for it by that point you are a boosted animal who got carried through all of vanilla.
@@Spinexus I agree it was easy - took us a day or two as a guild when we were ready, but the rep still had to be gained - you didn't just have it by then unless you'd gone out of your way. We'd progressed through MC, BWL, some AQ40 before then, and I don't recall many if any already having the rep (apart from the completionists).
indeed. He is entertaining but he has never been a good player so he should just stfu. I have seen him struggle in both legion and bfa. He would have been benched before signing up for naxx.
@@Carefaceeeee Asmongold is a pretty good player, he led his mythic guild through Nighthold in legion and downed Gul´dan!
As a 10+ years progress raider myself i can see that he atleast has the basics down in terms of raiding.
His rotation, macros, addons are total garbage tho and he is far from having top tier dps-logs.
Still more then enough to say what he thinks about Naxx tbh. It´s not like he is a LFR raider who likes to spend his time pet battling and then claims classic is easy.
Vanilla was retardedly hard in 2004-2006 but today it´s a joke really (in terms of actual mechanics). Getting there and clearing it in classic will be really hard again but not because of any kind of challenge in the raids themselfs.
@@Spinexus i watched him raid nighthold on twitch ....enough said. Ye ofc he has played for a long time so he isnt completly shit but to sit and say that naxx was only hard because you needed 40 people is just ...i dont know. Just wait for classic and it will show clear as day how wrong he is. I had bigger problems in Kharazan then i had in mythic nighthold btw. He probably couldnt handle that the first week. He can go farm pets
They also forgot to mention the repair bills after a few wipes you would be yellow or red very fast and that added up so quick. I remember people being in the raid and because they used so much gold to prepare for the raid they would be broke and could not even repair. If only i could have recorded the blow ups and arguments the rage content would be priceless lol. I have been in raids where a few people would realize after arguing they lived close and would log to meet to argue in person and two of those ended up in fights. If you had somewhat of a life and other hobbies back then you could not enjoy any alts really because your goal was to farm and then farm and then farm more because you needed things or no raid invite for you come weekend it was brutal.
i played an ele shaman, my older brother played a warlock and my dad played a priest. I was soooo salty at my repair bills compared to theirs.
@Matthew Mitchell I hate to say it but i got hooked on that also around WRATH lol. I was a shadow priest and loved it then went rogue pvp for a while. I think after WRATH i started playing less and less to where now i have just one max lvl rogue and no alts at all. I play every now and then but its hard for me to get lost in the game like i did before.
It was 10% durability then just like it is now.
Okay here's the thing.
Vanilla raid bosses were from a mechanic point of view relatively simple.
Yet people do indeed seem to forget players them selves were very limited.
Using lower rank spells and abilities otherwise you would drain your mana too quickly rendering you useless.
Gear with the most ridiculous stats not appropriate to your class.
Having to swap main stats for resistance gear.
And the biggest point of all..
Coordinating 40 people to cooperate in to succeeding together, is a bitch to do.
Here's how you should compare vanilla raiding with today's raiding.
Today's raiding is like: Having to fight a wild tiger in a cage surrounded by fire and spikes, but you're armed to the teeth.
Vanilla raiding is like: Having to fight a wild tiger in a regular cage with no fire and spikes, but you only have your fist to fight with.
In short, vanilla had a lot less resources more rotations etc. in order to provide the best outcome.
Today your characters are far more buffed by default.
Besides that, you're being handed free epics via wq's, warfront, pvp etc.
Giving you a head start on the current tier.
Back then you didn't have heroic, mythic or mythic+ giving you free epics or empowered gear.
Nope, just normal regular dungeon gear, with the exception of dungeon set 1.5 which was epic upon grinding the first set and completing the quest chains and in the end it was still shit and not pre-raid BiS.
Yeah you have a few more mechanics to deal with, but hey! today there's addons that tell and alert you what to do and when to do it. Complete detailed video guides and other resources.
/And in the end it's just simple repetitive pattern recognition, and that shit ain't hard. NASA has been training chimps to recognize patterns and when to flip certain switches, congratulations you're exactly doing the same thing and most of you even fail at it.
So less mechanics doesn't make a raid easier.
It would in today's version of the game, but not back then.
man that's really well said, love the analogy. people today act like everyone just went in and one-shot all bosses in a raid, speedclearing everything. that was certainly not the case. i'd love to see people who have never played vanilla try to kill just a few bosses in MC using tier 0.5 gear and no flasks/world buffs - that's how MOST people did it back then. nowadays, on private servers people do MC with full BiS gear, flasks, elixirs, buffs etc - of course it's easy! the game has been out for over a decade, people know EVERYTHING there is to know about the game. take 40 vanilla newbies who claim the raids are easy, put them in MC with regular gear (the way it's supposed to be played, not in full BiS) and see how it goes.
you can't just take a boss out of it's context, put it in a vacuum and say the fight is easy based on the boss' mechanics alone; there are more things to take into consideration - mana, for instance. healers had to care about spending too much mana; damage dealers had to know when to step away and heal themselves to help the healers out and so on. it was a different way of playing, a different pace. would the bosses be easy if you had the spells and abilities you do in today's WoW? of course! but you didn't! would the bosses be easy if everyone had pre-raid BiS gear? yes! but people didn't have that back then, people used the gear that was intended to be used - warriors didn't run around in more leather/mail than plate, as glass cannons, mages and warlocks didn't run around with green items that stacked nothing but frost/shadow damage. you can make the game so much easier by farming insane gear and stack buffs and potions, but if you don't, if you play with regular gear, it's not easy.
@-Genes- yup naxx debuff killing clothies in 3 ticks.
Under powered characters
8 tanks for 1 boss fight
And best yet it took 154 days until Molten Core got beaten for the very first time.
Genes, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Lets stop here at 4:10. the top end guilds SOLD LOOT from aq40/BWL to fund the Naxx40 progression, nobody had to farm shit outside of raids. Period. What we farmed was BWL/Aq40 and sold that loot during weekends, progressed naxx on weekdays. We would spend on avg 4-5k a week on consumes. Raiders didnt spend anytime out of raids farming unless it was for items like boars lungs ect.
Top post. While some grinds occured most smart guilds just payed off the potion/flask farmer with gold they got from selling t1/t2 BoEs or tagging a few along that would pay for the BoPs.
Seeing all your flasks go to wipes on the same boss :(
While that might be true for some top guilds. Others had to constantly re-gear new members because old ones left or quitted. That was a big process that constantly happend especially when 40 peoples are involved or more. So they had to farm consumebles outside the raid.
@@styxzero1675 that's different from my experience. On my server a top tier guild would never gear up anyone who wasn't already in gear ready for naxx. Typically you'd join a lower tier guild gear up as a group and evolve or quit and join a better guild. Unless you were really good friends with a high ranking guild member or family even then it was a stretch.
I can’t believe it was over 12 years ago I was sitting in my room for hours and hours with my guild farming to fight naxx. I can’t tell you how many times we wiped.
Felt like yesterday hey, the concentration level i had at the time to not fuck up is non forgettable.
Still have my 'Shield of Condemnation'
My best piece of Gear, because it is the Achievement for downing 40m Kel'Thuzad ;)
this guy played vanilla for 3 months why is he pretending to speak with any knowledge on raiding naxx40?
cause he's a trihard
@Jerry Baton 'hard content', 'overgrinded content' would fit it better
zacwp his opinion don’t matter when it comes to this, he didn’t play it he doesn’t know it he would not even make he would quit. There are very few real WoW players left.
Plenty of people play and have played on vanilla private servers where Naxx40 has been available to go back and do for years. I was like, 10 or 11 when Naxx40 was on retail live, but I've done it since on Vanillagaming. Well, I say 'done', I've spent hours wiping then ragequit. #toomuchofascrub
@@fled110 Ye according to Asmongold everyone stops raiding new content 4 months before next expansion xD
As someone who actually ran Naxx40, I can attest to the fact that EVERYTHING mentioned in this video was true. The attunement quest sucked ass, the gold sink absolutely bankrupted some players, the time involved to get geared was essentially a second job, and yes...the drama absolutely destroyed guilds. 3 drops to spread over 40 people was the worst. DKP was called unfair, people tried cheating other guildies out of loot because they had never gotten anything in multiple runs....you name it, it happened.
So Asmogold saying anything about Naxx40 holds no weight with me, especially when he admitted that the first Kel'Thuzad kill happened only a few months BEFORE he even started playing. I actually lived it and survived it. My guild didn't though...they broke up right after Burning Failure came out. All because of what happened in Naxx40
This. My guild was a few bosses in as well. I can't wait for blizz to see how vanilla succeeds & they fucked up in BC when they normalized & cross-realmed everything for pvp.
Echo22WC Actually, advance word from many fronts is that those who never played vanilla will ditch it before a month because they just dont know how hard the struggle to level, get cash, and get attuned to raids REALLY is.
@@Echo22WC Yep...Naxx40 was legit beast mode for some players. My guild leader actually managed to get full Dreadnaught set within a very short period of time, while my unlucky ass got exactly NOTHING from there before Burning Failure hit. My entire guild was at one point like "let him at least get SOMETHING from Naxx...he has never won a damn thing" lol
@@technewsfortechnoobs I still have my severance !!
Burning failiure? You're just trying too hard right now my dude.
I remember our raid leader giving out tactics for a boss, saying what skills they had and he always said: "And remember guys, the boss has a special weapon that will kill you, it's called Lag and there's nothing you can do about it".
going to laugh at people that want to rush ragnaros but forgot about the hydraxian waterlords.
those are the retail players that will get bored before level 40 mainly bc no ez mount, but yes will be funny to watch
@-Genes- Jokes on you.. i already laughed
Apollo Diomedes what about metul bawkses?
Classic wasn't even that great lol
the amount of boring rep grinds is going to have people quitting in 3 months
as long as u have 1 person that did the questline and 2 warlocks it is fine... u can just summon the person back and forth from azshara to molten core. It takes SIGNIFICANTLY longer obviously, but it's better than skipping the last 2 bosses who drop the best loot
If my memory serves me correctly, back in vanilla you also had the issue of a lot of spells in the game that DPS could use would pull too much aggro too quickly. Which meant that you'd either have to use a spell at its highest rank like once or twice and then stand around and wait until your threat went down and then do it again, Or you'd have to use a weaker version of the same spell. Like level 7, 8 & 9 shadow bolt would pull too much aggro, or if a rogue used poisons it would out aggro the tanks. That stuff was insane.
And half of a fury warrior’s damage-dealing buttons had the “deals high amount of threat” effect. If you wanted to keep aggro low you just kind of sit at 100 rage and wait for Bloodthirst cd.
One thing he didn't even touch on was threat management. In vanilla if you were a warrior, warlock, or mage you literally had to stop attacking the boss and let the tank build up threat. Can you imagine the players of today being told they can't just go balls to the wall while DPSing. If you were a rogue or a hunter you had to manage fient, vanish, and fiegn death into your rotation to avoid pulling aggro. There were so many factors back then that went into killing a boss. Healers had to rotate casting heals to avoid everyone running out of mana at the same time. It was definitel;y more challenging IMHO....
"If you were a rogue or a hunter you had to manage fient, vanish, and fiegn death into your rotation to avoid pulling aggro" The fact that you act as if this was somehow challenging worries me...
@@Nathrezim0 The point is there were a lot more factors than just boss mechanics. If you don't get why that was challenging you probably never played within the limitations of vanilla.
@@Nathrezim0 Thats where your wrong, abilities have changed and been removed. Not to mention the ridiculous cooldowns of abilities in vanilla. Again many factors.
@@Nathrezim0 No what I am saying is there were more factors and thats it, thats all. As DPS you can just spam your rotation today, you don't have to worry about your threat level at all, just boss mechanics. Healers don't have to worry about mana, and tanks don't have to worry about threat just boss mechanics today.
@@Nathrezim0 thats because you are over simplifying it, why not just say you never played vanilla at a high level because that is clearly why you don't understand.
This is why TBC and very early Wrath was the gold age of WoW.... they were like vanilla but fixed.
facts
...then EZmode Arena purples broke the itemisation.
@@SD78 nah they were inferior to every relevant raid due to in PvE worthless resilience stat and equally useless extra stamina and other stats were lower. They were good replacement for BiS pre-raid gear and later to lower tier raid gear but that is about it. T5 was way better in T6 raid than S2. I used to do mainly arenas back in the day and raided when my guild needed to fill last spot from time to time and my season gear was acceptable only on my warlock because SB spam build was OP and it was over-performing even with shit gear but when I had enough DKP to buy PvE gear I did it because it meant instant DPS increase every time.
Resilience didn't take up any of the stat cap in BC.
I recall getting the 2nd BiS Rogue offhand from casually facerolling Arena for a few weeks in a terrible team.
Lol the generations are totally bleeding over. You can tell by these comments there truly isn't many actual vanilla players left. No shocker there
ROFL at "classic being over in a month" hahahaha
Medium and high pop servers still lag as hell in peak hours
ROFL at "classic being challenging" though.
As Affli lock at Nax Sapphiron at vanilla, I was the only one in the raid who haven't used Frost res gear! I had, but as I experimented with my full affli spec, with imba dmg gear I could DoT up and then just drainlife KT thru the damage and gaining health (also lifetapped) and haven't needed any healing! (only 1-2 hot while standing behind an ice) I ran out of range from healers to not waste their mana accidentally healing me... Our guild did serverfirst KT in November, I got he first plagueheart ring, I still have it :)
Never played Classic, but you just reaffirmed by decision to role Warlock. That shit sounds badass.
Lol, as a healer I never looked at locks health. We didn't clear Naxx - but - I think we got to Thaddeus. No mention of Rasuvius is the video where priests had to MC mobs to tank while two other play tanks had to tank the mob when MCs diminishing returns kicked in.
As one of the few players out there who can really appreciate your efforts - well done, mate. Fucking ballsy/brilliant. I can't say for certainty that I don't think you died a few times trying this. But that said, I do believe it's doable given enough dps gear.
BTW - My guild cleared 15/16 Naxx before TBC released, ;( sad
I had BiS Gear, andnd 2-3 better shadowdamage item (for example fel infused leggings), and it was pretty safe, I gained health back even after lifetapping without problem. We tried to rush to Kill KT before the TBC prepatch where all class got a boost, so we can say that we downed KT "normally". I think I had around +680..700 shadow damage from gear plus potions flasks etc. In AV when everyone just rushed to the opposite faction's boss, I could just stand in the middle and DoT horde siphonlife corr agony and the dots did around 5000 dmg, at that time it was usually high so noone care until they realized that the DoTs eating them, but by the time they unmounted far away to eat or something it was too late... And I was top dmg done in all BG, usually 2x more than the second (just by spamming dots and drainlife) and at the same also topped the healing done in AV or AB... and pre TBC they even buffed locks a little more. Tho later they got worse and worse as Affli and these days they totally sux :(
Locks had their moment when we could tank Illidan in TBC in one of the phases :)
@@damagepy you couldnt see your dmg after BG, so i call bs:)
Oh and dmg addons is too unreliable unless ur whole team stay together and no one died.
Stop lying and get off the internet
I raided molten core and black wing lair but never made it to naxx. Truly the pinnacle of the game in my eyes. Vanilla and TBC was the best of WoW
I remember having to turn sounds off to increase FPS during major raid fights.
or to just look down or in a different direction.
In response to Asmongold, Vanilla was a great game. You can't judge it as a bad game sitting here in 2018. All that matters is how good it was when it was current relative to other options. It had problems but it was truly a grand old time. When players go back on classic servers in the near future, I predict that they're going to blow through the raid content due to various advantages we didn't have back in the day, such as:
(1) Players have good PCs now that will easily handle Vanilla content, even with 40-man raids.
(2) Blizzard has good servers now. Back in the day there were... problems. Lots of problems. This slowed down progression on any given night by literally hours sometimes.
(3) Players now have tons of resources online to turn to. Back in the day we had to scrounge raid information from other raid leaders and a few forums you could get access to.
(4) Players have built up to 14 years of WoW gaming and raiding experience under their belt and actually know how to play now.
(5) Most of the addons we use today to help us raid at a higher level didn't exist in Vanilla WoW. Players returning to classic will have another giant advantage here.
(6) Players know where everything is now. They'll be able to level, gear, travel, and prepare much faster now if they return to classic.
(7) The player base is older now, meaning less drama. The younger the player the more impatient, immature, ignorant, and irresponsible they are. This was a major challenge in Vanilla.
(8) Strategies are already developed for every fight.
(9) Leadership will be able to lead more effectively due to many reasons, some of which I listed above.
(10) The list goes on...
hey here is a concept: it was shit in 2006 too.
games that required ALL THIS shit you jsut listed was ALREADY clunky when the game released it was ONLY accepted since it was new to most wow players.
people who palyed OTHER mmos before wow already knew that crap and were tired of it back then and they had to deal with even more crap
@@MikePhantom Real fanboy here, bet you played less vanilla than Asmonbald.
I never did old original Naxx, but I solo'd Naxx with a 120 Warlock when it was hovering over Dragonblight so I learned what was in it. cool place, fun to solo.
To put the Naxx first clear into perspective. Imagine a group test being given out.mm to some 8 million people... And allowing them to team up however they see fit... And it taking some 3 months for them to pass it. Amazing dance and coordination. Just astonishing. So much science and data to be used here.
Come to think about it. This is why I only do PvP. Endless hours in PvE with nothing accomplished.
Its not about the destination man.......
@@Weedmate420 yes but the journey back then was rapr
I absolutely loved naxx it was a true challenge! Now its like hey log on do your weekly and log off
true challenge?? people will clear it in 1 hour LULW. its classic. it wont be a challenge.
Unpopular Opinion I guess: None of the reasons described above make Naxx40 a HARD raid. None of these issues involve gameplay mechanics or challenge that comes from the bosses themselves, theyre all based on having enough people that have enough time to play the game. Nothing is challenging about farming consumables or resistance gear, it's just time consuming. Imagine if, for the next BfA raid tier, you needed to have your heart of azeroth at level 50 in order to enter the raid. People would throw a massive bitchfit, but thats the exact thing people are asking for with vanilla. You want to play back when the game was 'hard', but that just means you want raids and dungeons that have an entry level that requires a massive time sink
3:00 Actually Asmond, OG Naxx gear was NOT replaced until 68-70 normal/Heroic dung. AND the Staff was NOT replaced until that Staff from EITHER Gruul's Lair or Kara, based on your need for that raid since the staff your replacing was At'Iesh or the raid's staff. The rest of the gear for plate wasn't touched until Heroics or Kara and for cloth/ Leather it wasn't UNTIL Kara. the only end of expansion tier gear that made it through to max level of the following expansion! it was the tier bonus' and secondary stats that made OG naxx SO good. though the crit trinkets from the UBRS quest, BWL and Onyxia's pendant were NOT to be touched unless you got the crit trinkets from Black Morass AND the Hellfire Peninsula crit trinkets from the elite bounty at legion corpse near Thrallmar, and the crit necklace from the Heroic BC dungeon questline! the heroic keys were held behind quest chains that ended with a epic gear quest for killing the end boss.
I feel like most people playing Retail WoW have never played any other MMORPG before and think that farming/grinding/mat gathering is "dumb/pointless " or waiting for weeks on end to receive one epic piece of loot is "boring". Do you understand what an MMORPG is?
@@akhsdenlew1861 LOL, Did you play Vanilla PvP competitively? You think that rank 14 could be achieved by merely grinding? Goodluck without a Premade. My server even had an honorable queue amongst Rank12s+. I don't know about your server but about seven premade teams (four horde, three alliance) had WSG and AB on lock. If you weren't good enough to get on one of these seven premades. You weren't going to get nearly enough honor to break rank 12. There was just no way. I remember this awful rank 11 warrior posting on the realm forums day after day about how bullshit premades were and how he was going to get Blizzard to have them removed, LOL. It was simple. No skill, no invite: no invite, no rank.
The amount of skill and creativity I saw executed in order to win WSG games was astounding. Teams were stacking Goblin Rocket Helmets and sync-sapping the entire opposition's defense in order to drop the flag carrier, One guild had seven Ashkandi MS warriors and three Paladins. God they were a nightmare whenever they played... I saw one team stack multiple fire mages on multiple levels with Invis potions in the flag room once. They didn't even need a healer, their tank popped a few cooldowns and their fire mages dropped the five of us in seconds. We all blamed our rogue who scouted the roof prior and found out later what had happened. They won that game by the way, and they deserved it. No healer on flag carrier? Genius. We never saw it coming.
Arena is just a cookie-cutter-combo-fest. It felt entirely rinse and repeat when I played it in TBC. There's no element of surprise and you're never surprised by their composition... No creativity... No imagination. Mostly RNG with a minimal skill cap coming down to microseconds deciding who the "better" or more "skilled" player is. So yeah, arena has a level of skill, but ironically no level of fun. Vanilla was chaotic, and there's nothing more fun and more exciting than absolute chaos.
@@therecommendationstudio9917 sucks for your little text that i was actually a pvp player in vanila so i know for a fact that what i said is true.
Yea sure obviously i couldn't know what was the case in all servers but i was a pvp player myself.. rank 12 feral druid and exalted with all the bg reputations.
I literally grinded that rank with ease by just carrying the flag and spamming shapeshift...Was it fun? definetly not
Was it hard? easier than scratching my balls
Did it bring results? hell yea it did
Don't you get the idea? The battlegrounds have OBJECTIVES, u could choose to fight or not to fight many times, if things were getting rough i could just LEAVE .
In arena u won't be carried, it won't be easy.. you and your friend against 2 others.. FIGHT, KILL THEM AND WIN. You have nowhere to go, no objectives can save you, you just have to figure out how you're gonna kill them.
That's pvp.
Carrying a flag or capping bases around the map with friends protecting you is cool, it's fun and it's nice to exist but it's nowhere near "competitive".
You need to check out real competitive games and see how they look like.
you think rank 14 required skill ah? funny that a rank 14 warrior was actually clicking his skills in my guild.
Wonder how he got this rank.
And for the record, remember the Ranked battlegrounds that were added much later in the game and how much of a failure it was compared to the arena? yea there's a reason for that buddy.
BGS= Fun and relaxing
Arena = competitive serious pvp
@@akhsdenlew1861 Billy, Billy, when are you gonna find whatever it is... you're looking for?
@@akhsdenlew1861 I for one think this is all a good thing. Some things are ment to be crazy hard and almost unobtainable. Today, people expect to be able to get everything while being a casual gamer. Let the highest and hardest loot be only for the highest and hardest players. Don't you think that the people who grind pvp for 14+ hours a day deserve that special rank? Playing a mmorpg for 2-3 hours a day is mediocre effort and should be rewarded with mediocre rewards and titles.
Druid tank fc anyone?
"TBC was coming out and nobody wanted the gear" Dude Asmongold.. Ive liked u for a while. But dude this is so wrong. First of all nobody knew how the new expansion would be back then so nobody actually knew that the gear they would get from Naxx would be useless. And btw it wasen't useless. It was quite sick still.
Yea exactly some gear in Naxx is better than in Karazhan! So yea call it useless.
Also not to mention the trinket from Kel'thuzad which is BiS againts every demon boss (TBC and demons oh not so much huh?)
@@AzIgaziMakk Just to clearify how awesome naxx gear was.
Compare lvl 60 Might of Menethil to a 2h rare weapon from lvl 70.
You'll see how good naxx gear actually was.
Fact:My guild Bloodscalp US stopped progression in naxx because of BC. We were on gothik and then 4h and so on...we were so close and still had 3 months till BC.
Naxx 40 gear was almost as good if not better in some cases than Kara gear lmao.
Tanks used ThunderFury in TBC until they got Mallet of the Tides in SSC.
A lot of the level 60 gear trinkets and set bonuses would be used over Kara gear or until a full Kara set bonus was acquired.
Shit, people didnt replace some MC gear till 70 dungeons / heroics!
I was using the crossbow from Naxx on my hunter well into Kara runs.
14:28 Anyone that was actually there sees that room and thinks "fuck that room". Asmon sees that room and says "that's like two pulls DERP".
Most of these requirements are either overstated or misrepresented.
I was playing as mage. I cleared everything with my guild untill Saphiron (Gothik and Q'Thun with a friends guild) then left (before BC) so i don't actually know if they killed him. The main requirements for every boss fight were:
1) Your own consumables (arcane elix, flask on(when we were actually ready to kill the boss) oils, shadow power if warlock, intel if you have + mana potions.
2) Gear of T1-T2. It wasn't as harsh as the video states.
3) The most important requirement was your ping and absence of lags (FPS). Fights like Heigan where your ping = you live or die, or Anub'Rekhan where the amount of adds + aoe would freeze a crappy PC were the real problem for us.
4) The biggest challenge for my guild was to gather 40 people and to keep them online through 10ths of wipes. I remember the outrages of GM on those who had less than 800dps on Patchwerk but still no one got kicked out because of how difficult it was to find the right people who knew what to do.
5) Some fights were just randomly instant lose if Server lags.
Healers never farmed any flasks or pots. Almost every BoE/reagent we got we sold for profit that we spend on consumables for tanks and healers and sometimes for DPS. Every guild that i knew back then had the same system, so the video isn't accurate about that part. Also most healers were herbalists.
Reputation part wasn't accurate either. Most people knew for quite some time before the patch that they will need Argent Rep so we had it on time. I had revered by farming in W/EPL long before the patch so i didn't even bother.
Resistance gear was generally skipped for Nax raid because you just didn't have enough dps to kill bosses with res gear before enrage. I wasn't present on Saph so i guess i skipped the fight where you needed it, but you could loot the majority of Nax without having res gear.
We didn't have to clear most of trash. just the right mobs/packs to get through. Although it was still frustrating.
Regarding the drama, my guild never experienced ragequitings or blamings. Sometimes we were completely desperate and couldn't do a certain boss for 80+ wipes. Sometimes our RL would scream at certain people for fucking up. Never would anyone quit because of it. I wouldn't go as far as to say that we enjoyed wiping, but we knew we were doing something worth while.
To sum it up, it was probably different for every guild that actually made it to and through Nax. For me it was a Fun time that i Still remember. Something i can't say about WoW of Cata 4.2+.
Asmon re Anub Rhekan: "Blizzard intended on Players approaching the mechanic in a different way" Then he goes on to explain that at 60, you kited the boss while healers desperately picked and chose who to save and who to let die while more or less having a seizure compared to level 80 where your main tank simply rolled his jawline across the keyboard, blowing all his cooldowns at once while the healers spam healed one player.
"Approaching the mechanic in a different way" LOL, they just fucking removed said "mechanic"
I love how Asmongold always says "Jepp" to everything they say in vanilla wow videos like he's done exactly every little thing. Stop lying man..
But he could have played classic wow though... There were and are private servers with buffed(anti-nerfed) NPCs.
There were/are even ways to play pre-Vanilla versions of WoW!
As far as I know the most time it took to kill end boss in a raid was Ragnaros in Vanilla - Molten Core, MC released with patch 1.1.0 that was Nov 7th 2004,
Ragnaros world first was done by Ascent US guild, I think in April 2005. That would be around 5 months?
That is discounted because that includes time spent leveling 1-60, then gearig since Ragnaros was available at launch. It was 5 months, sure, but its from start of expansion, not launch of raid.
Damn I knew it was low, but I didn't realize it was 23 guilds. I killed Kel'Thuzad in Vanilla and it was probably my top gaming moment, people went ballistic on ventrilo.
I should mention that bosses like Loatheb had such steep DPS requirements that we would basically get every world buff in the game just to make sure we one shotted it.
this guy is a bit off about a few things. naxx came out at the very end of vanilla, which means people that wanted to raid naxx most likely had been playing for a long time. most people, even non-raiders had a lot of reputation with the argent dawn already, just from running dungeons which means you didn't have to start from 0 and go to exalted, you probably already were revered or at least far into honored with them. again, people that wanted to raid naxx had most likely cleared AQ40 for a long time and were probably fully decked out in BWL/AQ40 gear, it's not like naxx was released and everyone had to farm MC then BWL then AQ40 to gear up - people had a headstart.
and IF you were brand new to the game at that point and still wanted to clear naxx, you could join a guild that would gear you up in an instant (my friend joined a BWL-guild, he got every single giantstalker piece that dropped in his first MC run because nobody else needed it, he got rhokdelar, dragonstalker head and legs and the cloak off ragnaros in ONE week).
also, healers could make money in more ways than just killing mobs (besides, just switching to catform as a druid was way faster than killing mobs by just spamming wrath/starfire even if you didn't have any feral gear, come on now). you could farm herbs and make a ton of money, sell enchants, sell stuff crafted from tailoring, alchemy etc.
i'm by no means saying naxx was easy, but the guy in the video brings up a few points that seem quite redundant.
also, i remember seeing the people in the guild Forte on Kazzak EU (the 5th guild to kill KT), and man did they look badass in their full tier 3 sets! :D
Nobody brand new to the game was granted a fast track to instant gear and naxx wtf are you talking about???
@@andrewmorgan7500 very true
his hunter friend got a few pieces of gear from an mc alt run it sounds like. does he think that's enough to step into naxx? moronic. naxx had hard gear checks.
that Hamsterwheel guy sounds like a broken man.
Naxx was just that BROODAL
Lol yes. It's absurd. I played 17 hrs a day.. every day.4 years. Raided haaaaaard core. I got only half into Naxx. It was tough. The REAL killer though... BC release date just a few months made the guild wanna quit... Unfortunately :(
This guy never raided in Vanilla. HoTs didn't stack, so out of a 40man raid the tank would be getting one rejuv, one renew etc. Resto Druids would be spamming rank 4 healing touch and occasionally using swiftmend to steal someone's rejuv and put on their own.
Anub Renken would wipe the raid with one locust swarm or exploding bug. In WotLK the damage was trivial.
His story mirrors mine to the very same 3 Naxx bosses. I completely feel his pain. BWL and MC was tough but doable if you played 12 ish hrs a day. Naxx was NEXT lvl. It was absolutely brutal. Also the game was new. You couldn't pull up CZcams vids and watch the bosses from every angle possible for every class. Knowledge pipelined from world leaders to other servers like a grapevine. Aggro mng was a major component of the game.
Also in vanilla you had to do scholo to make flasks since that was the only alchemist lab. What this guy is talking about in terms of respec costs is why I made a rogue and leveled it to 60 as an alchemist.
Also one in BWL I believe.
@@LimitedInfinity9 yes but if memory serves they were after broodlord lashlayer and you had to kill him for the gate to open the clear the trash and the 4th boss to use it.
I'll be interested to see what the reaction is when Naxx comes out in classic and gets summarily destroyed by any raid team that is even remotely competent.
today people have three things they did not back then - knowledge and experience with more complex mechanics, a pc that can run vanilla without a problem, fast internet.
no shit it will get taken out easily you fuckin pleb, its been out for 14 years now, its not new content anymore lots of people had it on farm at 70 for the loot before it was bumped to an 80 raid, the learning process is gone. the hardest part will be getting 40 people geared for it.
@@BDCMatt I bet you that a number of guilds will clear Naxx 40 within a week of it being released with far less gear and consumables than people did back then. Yes some of it will be down to knowledge, better servers/connection but also in general people are way, way better players now days. Actual vanilla players back then sucked for the most part, you can see from private servers how much "progress" has been done on class theorycrafting, gearing values and so on.
Top guilds on Classic Servers will probably only have Warrior, Rogue, Mage and Warlock dpsers. A couple Hunters for tranq shot, and that's it.
Oh, Shadow Priest to apply Shadow Weaving debuff? Nope, have a healing priest spec into that talent.
@@MrGlennJohnsen yeah, and the bosses wont be bugged on release. hopefully.
@@BDCMatt search a recent full naxx run on youtube on private servers. they still need 5+ hours to clear it all of them in full t3. its not the skill that keeps them form clearing it faster.
Peopel stopped Naxx because they started giving away PvP gear for token, not rank. So in 2 days of PvP everyone has Rank 14 weapons and armor. Thats when your highest rank became Perm to "make up for it".
Then with TBC coming as we all were getting our Tabard of the Protector for the Dark Portal event, we had started getting quests right out that were of equal power to Naxx. There was ONE weapon powerful enough to last until end game in TBC, so good that Blizz had to nerf it.
Thunderfury, many tanks still used it in the first few raids. People could not pull threat from me...still. Then there was Atiesh but only to port people to Karazhan.
I mean most bosses where killed within days of reaching them not counting loathed and the four horsemen. Kel'thuzad took 5 days after Sapphiron. The difficulty for progression guild lay in getting the gear. Even back then the bosses once you got the necessary gear and such were pretty easy.
Vanilla was not hard; it was just time consuming just like Old School and Classic Runescape. The raids of Vanilla are no exception; their difficulty is 85% nothing to do with the raids themselves
Yeah playing moonlight sonata isnt hard. It just takes much time to practice and learn this shit
The difficulty of vanilla came from the communication and synchronization required. The technology of the time was also limited which made things (all be it small) a degree more difficult. The fights required unison and a large amount of time dedication.
Do you even torrent bro?
CTG yeah bro
so much shit you are full of
I raid leaded Naxx40 it was extremely hard and i know all the guilds that killed it before the nerfs because there was so few, also turn off your raid addon and try raiding, yeah not so easy huh.
SuperJohn12354 I still play with no addons like I did in vanilla, don’t need them.
I know your story is bullshit cause any guild that was doing naxx40 at the time would require ktlh threat meter and big wiggs so nt
But you see, you wouldn't need add-ons for vanilla raisds, they were a lot simpler.
Vanilla WoW was simple but hard
Current WoW can be complicated but easy
i was standing in front of Kel'Thuzad and my guild just went broken cause BC was coming no one wanted to waste times on wipes... From CN server a 5/8 tier 3 warrior. That was super fun time, i still remember everytime before raiding, we went to kill onyxia and went to Zul'Gurub to get both buffs, 40 main raider plus 10 to 15 sub members, across the map like a real legion. i still remember our main priest, after he got his legendary staff by using our resources, went rogue and joined another guild which was our major competitor on our server to fight for first downs. i still remember how hard to sync heals for Patchwerk even with addons. i still remember when changing +- on fighting Thaddius, half of our raid group went offline and relog, que for 40 minutes. Good old days will never return and only thing i can do now is watching the videos i took back in that time again and again and missing my old comrades in game. Even now both Blizzard and WoW went complete shit, i will still say they are legends.
Classic WoW for me was basically like moving to France and being pushed through the Louvre in 15 mins and never being allowed to return, as I started 3 months before TBC hit.
i highly doubt asmongold ever raided in vanilla
I just had to make a comment about all the discussions of which is harder, todays raiding or vanilla. First of
I want to start by qouting the defenition of "difficult": needing much effort or skill to accomplish, deal with, or understand.
To all those using the argument "something taking a long time is not difficult", taking alot of time is basicly something you have to use alot of effort for. I don't know if you know about the 10000 hour expermient, it's basicly if you invest 10000 hours into something you can call yourself a professional at that specific task. Yes you can learn most things, just some takes a longer time than other(more difficult, ops).
I'm no Vanilla fan boy nor play wow today. But I just want to clear a few things out, I'm not sure if it's people trolling or actually serious.
I think many people tend to compare different things. If you want to compare if bosses are harder now MECHANIC WISE compared to vanilla I don't think I've seen anyone argue against you. But then someone jumps in and says "naxx was easy", if you'r then talking about completing the WHOLE raid with all the OBSTACLES that were there and then. That's just stupid.
Wow now and then are 2 completely different games. It's like comparing building the pyramids back in the days to building a skyscraper today. And say, building the pyramids was easy as fuck, it was just putting one rock on another, ignoring all the other OBSTACLES that existed back then to get the rocks up for example. I can just check a youtube video of how to do it and with the resources that I have today(example: no lag, 120 fps) I would probably do it faster than they did then, YES OFCOURSE, CONGRATZ.
But that's beside the point. This is why it's very important to separate if you'r talking about just mechanics or the raids as a whole.
Now with that point made I see comments like "well we're better gamers today". Do you honestly believe that? There have been geniuses through all of history, people are as smart/good now as we were then.
The TOP raiders in vanilla were as motivated as TOP raiders now. People theorycrafted day and night when they weren't raiding to min-max everything for the individual person and the raid. You have to compare the TOP from then to the TOP from now, you can't compare the avarege pleb. I remember back in the day with the lag you had to learn to start running when there was 20% left of your frostbolt cast and it would still cast.
Here comes the mind-blow: The OBSTACLES were different. Nowadays raiders struggle with mechanics, then raiders struggled with lag/low fps, alot of farming and getting a group of 40 together. Like people building the pyramids struggled with lifting the fking stones up while you could easely do it today with a lift. Which means the raiders had DIFFERENT SKILL-SETS now and then. And something that's easy now could have been hard then and vice versa. I doubt that if you took Kungen from nihilum and ported him to today and gave him plugins that shouted what to do and no lag/high fps, it wouldn't take long for him to learn and adapt to todays raiding, stop trying to say people were more stupid then wtf.
So how do you compare overall difficulty of a raid today compared to then? I would probably calculate the time invested by every person involved to achieve the final goal. Which includes farming gear, reading/learning up on tactics, min-maxing dps and many more factors. When you calculated that time then you can see which took the most time and most likely say one was harder. I would probably say that building the pyramids back then was harder than building a skyscraper today even though if you told them back then to build a skyscraper it would be impossible for them to do it. You can't compare now to then. You can compare time now with the obstacles now with time then with the obstacles then.
Frost resistance gear is needed only for Sapphirion , but its doable without any FR gear , the whole raid uses titan flask , priests go full tier 2 for the double renew, use juju , paladin aura , etc . Naxx will be cleared in a few hours after the release , you can bet on that for sure.
My takeaway from this is, that Naxx in Vanilla was hard due to design flaws and poor tuning in the game as a whole as well as in encounters, not because it was mechanically that interesting. Of course, it was still the early stages of raiding, and Blizzard hadn't really figured out how to do that kind of content.
Lol the moment comments try to say that it's harder now and didnt even play then.
You have no idea. The game got easier and easier each expansion. Hence why the full clears are so quick now. You actually had to progress then and needed to get 40 people to do so.
Save me your shit.
i dont see it as progress if you have to spend 85% of the "progress" doing shit thats NOT the raid itself, sorry. naxx raiding was shit even in 2006
@@MikePhantom You could say the same thing about gearing from other tiers which you still have to do to an extent. "Whyyy do i have to run this raid to get gear first i just want to jump into the last raid instantly."
You still need to farm other stuff before a raid. Vanilla just made it a real struggle to test if you had the dedication to do it.
@-Genes- not even close.
Obviously you didnt do it lol. You couldnt do specific bosses without specific items.... how long did naxx take?
How long do these days take?
Case closed.
Try again next year.
People didn't play MMOs back then ( obviously ) so people are "better" now ( if you can call them people ) that's why the clears are faster now ( although I agree the past raids that we had like antorus and current tier were ridiculous ) but some mop raids / wotlk raids and cata raids were really hard.
There are different types of hard. There is unnecessarily hard and that's when the game is not worth the candle ( for example you need to farm x amounts of hours for something that is just too little of a reward but that's the only way to get that vital thing ). There are many things like that in vanilla and I believe people like it just because it was their first mmo. It's like, you have something that is extremely terrible, but it's so great to have it, you don't want anything else ever. It's hard to lvl to 60 because you have to drink / eat too often after fightning mobs, craft your gear etc. You don't have all these modern things a modern MMO has ( some early level mount, heirlooms, huge XP boosts etc . ). So that's hard, but it's not hard because you have to be a good player or a smart guy. It's hard cuz it takes too much time. The other type of hard is when you really need to be good at something, you can't achieve it just by doing the same thing until you get there ( like questing in vanilla ). It's HARD to be a raid leader for 40 ppl ( esp in 2004 when internet wasn't the best ) but it's unnecessarily hard to get so little loot for such a huge raid.
+@@1man1year150 The clear for naxx took so long because skilless mongoloids like you kept infesting guilds. Spare me, fuckboi.
I dont even play WoW but I watch these videos
Haven't played WoW in 9 years but I still watch
Try out classic when it’s out and see if you like it
When talking about how long it took to clear, you really need to look at when the different bosses fell. Horsemen was the only roadblock. Everything else dropped in a week or so. The long break was only due to 4H. Credit where credit is due, four horse WAS naxx for the leading guilds. It took them months to solve and it wasn't bugged like the previous bosses who died slowly (rag, nef, cthun). Viscidus and domo were the only other bosses that took a while (talking 1-2 weeks, not months) to die and in domos case I am not sure if this was because of rep with waterlords or difficulty. Viscidus being optional and guilds wanting to kill cthun would have played a part and to this day i wonder if he would have died earlier had he been required to get there.
In short almost everything not bugged in vanilla wow was killed within a week of an instance launching, the exception was 4h.
Re trash - we would time it, hang near the boss and wait for it to repop, rather than reclearing it.
As part of the .1% apparently, I blame the late launch of the actual Raid and the soon to release BC expansion giving little time to figure out and farm enough to down the instance. You had end game guilds that had AQ40 and BWL on farm and sold spots to players only to constantly wipe on the first bosses to any wing for weeks or months. I agree that it wasn't hard to get exalted with some factions but getting to revered/exalted was a bitch in most cases since only raid or farming components to do a rep quest was the only way since turn in's dropped off completely once you hit revered. What Naxx needed was at minimum 300+ Shadow Resist/Frost/Nature (depending on wing) which was very hard to come by save for a lucky drop or shitty trade skill item with generally no useful class stats, just like AQ40 needed nature and MC needed fire. Otherwise you'd get wiped every ability from certain trash and bosses alike, nothing like a fire pack from MC and getting single/double cherry blossoms to instantly drop anyone without 300+ FR. Asmons Reaction to some of these boss mechanics are like "aah what about it!?" Well going from having 4.3k on a heavily geared rogue (all BWL/AQ40 down to the trinkets) to well over 20k for dps/healers in WOTLK, the mobs could pretty much 2 shot most classes in vanilla with a debuff since if it hit a healer they were fucked unless other healers were on top of it and healed them through the debuff. I think the OP video got most of it pretty dead on, but Asmon missed out on a lot of what vanilla was about when it came to actual gear/rep grinds required to do progression raid. Will new Vanilla fail? Doubtful since private vanilla servers have more players then current content. Bringing back a game where it actually feels rewarding and you can focus on one or two characters to turn into a god along with a close knit community and friends...or current daily login w/ free gear, shit story with countless character assassinations to ruin their rep, poor/boring game mechanics and design, constant micro transactions over actual content, constant lies to keep people sub'd long enough for the next "Beaten in 2 days" content since challenging the player base and rewarding high skill players is no longer a thing. Since the start of Cata this game has taken a severe turn for the worst by making EVERYTHING accessible and rather then setting standards or even progression, allowed the person only willing to put in 20 minutes a week to dictate the challenge rating of the entire game cus their fee fee's got hurt when no one wanted to take a mouth breather to high end raid content.
2018: Vanilla was great, we want vanilla, 40g respec is fine ! Also 2018: Doubling gold cost every time you reforge azerite gear starting at like 1g?? OUTRAGEOUS
They are different games so the expectations are different.
You clearly don't know what you're talking about. It starts at 5g and my respec cost at the start of BFA got up to 320k because of the poor availability of Azerite gear at the start of the expansion.
@@WtfThisSucks12 One is a game you play. The other is a game that plays for you.
@@JBrandonMercer123 bullshit. The respec cost resets. And you got a ton of 340 gear from m+0. You are just an idiot if you spend 300k on reforging
This video has me fired up. I wish I had the time and some old guild mates to come back to playing. Show you guys how it’s done. I personally enjoyed the Twin Emperors and Black Temple. Real Instances. Where real gamers played.
Jhon Wayne would love to see your team get smashed in Mythic raiding because mechanics are 5x harder now. Old WoW was hard because what you had to do to be ready to raid, nowadays you have to ready yourself with piles of info.
Stormeed S I will never get smashed. A wipe Is a wipe regardless.
REAL GAMERS RISE UP BRO!!!
I was one of the world first on BT, and compared to today's mechanics, it wasn't hard at all. You see range split even in normal dungeons today, back in BT days it was considered the epitome of a "hard" mechanics.
Nico Mechanics now may be harder, but like the video said we had nowhere near what they have now to raid with. What server where you on?
As someone whose guild was broken by Naxx, some of this is making my brain itch a lil bit. Getting attuned initially was pretty easy. At the time of Naxx40's release, the first scourge invasion was going on. And oh how much fun we had trolling alliance trying to take part in it. Usually multi-spawning the nodes. I don't remember trash spawning within 30 minutes, but two odd hours was certainly within the realm of possibility. Typically, if trash started respawning, we called it a night. Never made it to horsemen, loatheb etc. Everyone vanished for the holidays :/
My guild back then cleared BWL and I was a mix of T1/2 gear. Absolutely detested having to farm and keep all those fire resist gear. Some of us got around to obtaining attunement and then _took a single step_ into Naxxramas to see it for our own eyes. I was imagining the nightmare of having to farm frost, shadow, nature resist gear and wasn't sure if I'm game for _that_ ordeal. I actually saw some warrior in _complete T3_ gear and I was like "this fella is totally badass", and that was me as a BWL veteran.
We never got all 40+ players ready to tackle that challenge though; it was too late and BC expansion was just around the corner. All that hard work of obtaining T1/2 gear, even though some were useful through my leveling, quickly became obsolete and irrelevant by level 70. Sadness.
What if the 8 warrior tank fight was intended, they wanted to create a new meta where a lot of players would reroll their call for team changes. Like a meta playstyle rotation in any competetive game, it gives you something new to learn. Could be genius vanilla design, way ahead of its time.
our guild decided to not even go into nax
Most of guilds did the same. New expansion is coming, why bother. Also, it was a pain in the ass to grind all that stuff.
Well did you do anything in aq 40 then? I am guessing that you didnt kill much in there either since the trash in that instance was harder then the bosses and took hours to clear.
@@EternallyGod was clearing aq 40 weekly
Had to switch guilds three times in Naxx, they kept breaking up. We managed 3 wings and got partially through the fourth, then TBC came out..
As a player (Jagis Rdruid/off feral) who actually killed KT (4th out of 23 guilds to clear Naxx40) with Bad Omen. I can agree to what most of what the narrator said. Everybody was however 4k-4,5k hp due to Flask of Titans and 50g would probably amount to 20k in BFA. To emphesize how hard it was - we were farming 8xHit trinkets from Ghazranka in Zul gurub for our tanks so they wouldnt miss their Taunts when transistioning the horses. Everyone was farming Whipper root and dragons breath. we spend 40.000 gold from guildbank on lotheb to get shadowres pots.
To me it seems Asmongold cant really fathom the difficulty of the encounters. It was brutal.
And to even compare lvl60 and 85 is just simply put retarded. Did World record speed clear last week prior to ulduar with Lokes List
- WWR SPEED CLEAR NAXXRAMAS LOKES LIST 1H 12M 32S. (youtube) Naxx in wrath was easy!
Attunement was so easy I don't even remember it. Most people already had the rep and the items were easy to gather since most top server guilds were already burning most of the drops from other raids. As far as healer farming solo, I never saw that. As a guild we came together to help everyone out, so there was very little respeccing. Most people that respecced did it just to change things up.
One of the % .1 Guild Heist. Cenarius server
It only was hard because it was overtuned, just like everything in clasic and old xpacs. the new raids are hard on theit own way = mechanics etc.
edit: naxx also wasnt out that long because tbc was released pretty close after naxx's release, so not many people even bothered.
The reason why so few people completed Naxx is because it wasn't out that long, couple months before the expansion at best, guilds didn't have time to do the things needed to get there, like clear AQ40. It also required the MOST time and dedication, making only the most hardcore have the time and personal fortitude to try. I think this is all good for the game and better than 99% of your players clearing all your content in a month, like modern WoW.
Forgive me if I’m wrong but didn’t final fantasy 11 have a raid boss that had like 20 something phases and a girl actually died trying to kill it with her raid buddies from exhaustion? I believe it took them 22 hours to get it to its final stage and she had a heart attack from overusing caffeine.
Wtf asmongold was a Noob in vanilla and hi give his opinion???
he wishes he played vanilla so bad
@@riner9 but really he doesnt cause then he couldn't sit and whine about how easy it was. Cause he would never have done it the lazy fuck :)
so he cant have an opinion? ok then
@@p1zzal0ver61 he can but his opinion mean nothing
@@roselila8132 then what are you doing here
So it was tedious, time consuming and unfun? Yeah, sounds great. It's one thing if something is hard because you need to play well and other when something is hard because you need couple weeks of preparation to meet the requirements.
BfA will still be there for you. Don't forget to log in that 1 single hour every 2 weeks or so.
@@Facelessify1 No it won't because im not touching this garbage expansion. My dislike for raids being hard only because it takes ages to prepair for them doesn't mean i don't want to put any effort into the game.
Naxx wasn't difficult. 85% or so of it's difficulty came from arbitrary factors and gear simply not being good enough. Very little if anything at all about the raid itself was "hard".
@@bartoszbartosiewicz1123 Well it's great that we won't share the classic experience with people like you =)
@@TheFreek753 So what you're saying is that LFR is hard because it has mechanics regardless of numbers and Mythic isn't that much harder than LFR because it's more about gear requirement for big numbers aka "artificial difficulty". Do you even know what tuning is about? It's about forcing you to play good by reducing the margin for error. Saying that the gear was "simply not good enough" even though people did beat the encounters with that same gear shows how you want to shift the blame on something else than yourself.
I remember at the start of wotlk, blizz openly stated that naxx10/25 man;s will be more like am ode to naxxramas so pretty much all raiders will get to experience naxxramas. It was such a great raid and the stats on its completion compelled blizz to find a way to make naxx more accessible and came up with it being first tier raid for wotlk.
Like in TBC no one could kill Kael'Thas until the NEXT RAID TIER came out and you could start farming the early bosses from that and get their gear... It's like the difficulty for each raid was baked within the raid itself and the deeper you went the harder they got.
Except you couldn't do Hyjal (that was in the game from the start) without killing Kael'Thas and you couldn't do Black Temple until you did Hyjal.
@@DriftNick Isn't that the order they're all supposed to be in?
@@Emidretrauqe My point is you couldn't do the next tier to farm gear because it was locked behind killing Kael'thas.
Comparing Tomb of Sargeras to oldschool Naxx...
You aren't even going to kill one boss in Naxx asmon, and if you will you will be carried.
The Shaman why so cringy
@@user-tv6xs9rv8d We aren't talking about your profile picture.. Chill out!
The Shaman yeah we arent , i m talking about your comment and the fact that your profile picture is game screenshot plus you cant even put your own name . Stop talking about something you dont know .
@@user-tv6xs9rv8d >putting real name
You are using google plus?
Yikes, you are one salty boy... Chances are, you probably weren't even born yet when all of this was happening.
Asmon i like you and all but really. You played vanilla for like 30 days total. I value your opinions but your vanilla experience was quite limited.
The data we have now is superior to the knowledge from 2006. ToS is exponentially harder than Naxx.
@@Julian-cn1ey Nope Tos was mathematicly possible to clear from release. Naxx 40 was not, just there you lost.
@@apaxtoa Mythic KJ needed nerfs to be mathmatically possible, and then the second iteration, while possible, was nerfed before the kill. Mythic KJ is infinitely harder than C'thun.
@@Julian-cn1ey .... Yet another kid who didnt even play vanilla. Had to check your stream. Obvious from your voice your like 12-15 now xD
@@Julian-cn1ey fkn spank his ass drakanov
those old raids you had to carry fucking band-aids to heal yourself if you were dps, cause all the healers had to keep up the tanks....
I really don't get why people keep saying you needed 8 geared tanks for 4horseman. . . We used some fury warriors in offspec gear for the extra tanks on that fight. It was hard at first but once we got the hang of it and understood how the stacks worked it really wasn't that difficult.
Okay... I'm 39 seconds into the video and already annoyed because this guy keeps calling Naxx a dungeon.
Actually its the party that is called a raid, it is just a 40 man dungeon.
@@dilanonuk564 No.
@@saraha.3171 .... "yes". You can tell yourself everything you want but "raids" are dungeons
@@aleyksgodness
wow.gamepedia.com/Raid
"Raid instance"
"Raid group"
Fight me, ya' dingus.
ur all nerds stop fighting over the internet 😂😂
Ahh, Naxx 40..good times. After killing C'thun 40 (well not nerfed totally, just enught to actually do it), my guild did Naxx 40 ... some drama was there, but still we managed just before Christmas that year to kill Kel...it was glorious... best moment of my Wow playtime. Farming was bad, but still there was something in us that made it fun... But now, when I think of that, no - I won't play on vanilla servers (maybe will try, but not for long). Game was just different back then. Maybe I was younger... ;)
While ridiculously hard... I believe like things like this should be in games like WoW. There should be a Top level that is the top 1%, there is no reason that everyone need be able to complete the highest difficulty of everything.
Having something like this builds notoriety, something almost "legendary", and opens up spots for players to be recognized, to gain "fame", as the best of the best (as well as Guilds).
Make it so a good % of players can clear everything, and you kill that off.
"Classics gonna be dead in a month, nobody is gonna play that"
One month into classic and servers still have queues in the evening with no end in sight. This didn't age well...
To be fair that might just be Faerlina, Herod, and a few others. Several servers have died already, and several factions have died (Stalagg Alliance, Lucifron Alliance, Flamelash Alliance, Heartstriker Horde).
And this is entirely anecdotal but at least my guild is getting really bored of classic. Everyone is fully Ony/MC geared. Everyone who was ranking has already got rank 10 and given up on rank 14. BWL is coming out at the perfect time. We're basically taking the rest of the month off and coming back in February.
We still hadn't killed C'thun or Twin Emps and downed Raz and Anub in Naxx. Granted, that's all we got down (eventually got the "cuz BC" bug)
because we were still finishing AQ40, you can have the gear to beat some bosses in Naxx without being "fully geared".
Pretty much like this dude's video. We didn't have the gear to DPS Patch. We didn't break up though. We were all friends and most of us went and hung out together IRL. Parties and all.
Good point too, there's way more mechanics today in retail, but retail will never understand that resources and time were way more important in Vanilla. It did make it harder in a way.
I think one of the most important things that is kinda overlooked is that there were almost no websites to tell you what you need like today. Today you can get every single number crunched information for everything in the game, icyveins, wowhead, youtube etc. Back then you couldnt just pop up a math based guide like now.
I healed in Vanilla as a holy paly for alliance and resto druid for horde. I was one of those idiots that thought you should gear your healers first with tier so that they can cope with healing longer.
I haven't played in many years now, but I can imagine gearing your DPS is far better so that the targets died faster.
114k gold in 2018 is $25. 1k gold in 2005 was $178. In 2005 it would cost you over $20k for what $25 will get you now. And we wonder why the ah prices are inflated.
For Anub'Rekhan the actual damage he dealt to players with the locus swarm debuff was actually much lower, since players with AQ40 gear had nature resistance. And in T3 gear players had much more hp and were expected to know how to deal with the fight. And 8 tanks were actually not that big a deal to a well prepared raid, since fury warriors in tank gear could do it. As fury warriors were really really good in Vanilla you generally had 3-5. Add in some benched warriors and you can do it. The only downside is that the warriors needed tank gear and really should have the tier3 4p bonus. However with cooldowns, brez and the horsemen dying and tanks being available to substitute a death, it was still doable. The biggest reason why so few guilds did Naxx40 was a lack of interest (TBC only 6 months away) and most people were pretty bad players... "pressing 1 button to decurse is hard…."
Vanilla wow was a good game but bit unrefined... Tank? Play warrior. But can't paladin, a holy warrior tank? Hmm... Not really. You wear dresses and flowers and heal that warrior. TBC and WotLK was the golden days of wow, they got rid of the unnecessary bullshit.
Love how he talked about resist gear, Fire = crafted, frost = crafted.... Nature.... Green Dragons. Open world raid bosses that had players from every top guild camping 24/7 that respawned once every 3-7 days or w/e it was. It wasn't uncommon to see a guild have 40 players to fight the boss + another 40 player raid from an ally guild or part of their own guild to fight the 40 man raid that came from the other faction. Mind you some of these dragons could easily wipe a raid due to a mechanic from a death in the wrong spot. So you could easily wipe the other factions raid if you died on top of a healer or some how nuked a tank with 3-4 arcane PoM pyro mages. Were the mechanics harder in vanilla than in current game. No, but the combine problems from everything made vanilla WoW so much more difficult than it currently is. One last point about AQ40. Princess Huhuran was known as a minor guild breaker due to the nature resists you needed for the fight, and being forced to fight for it with other guilds that are either in AQ40 themselves, in Naxx, or just wanting gear from the dragons. The funny part about it is once you did kill the boss, the trash mobs between her and the next boss(s) the Twin Emps had as much HP as the 1st boss in AQ40 each. Also hit as hard and did special abilities that could easily wipe a raid. Don't even have to mention how hard the trash was from Twin Emps to C'thune being like pulling a raid boss each time. So again, vanilla WoW was seriously difficult when you add everything into context.
On Patchwerk my guild had a fellow alliance guild get shadow priests to MC us (horde), use their paladins to give us BoW and BoK for the 5 min buff, then run us into the instance and we would go at it that way. You were able to actually able to do unique tactics back then. I had 6 down before I quit due to RL, and the guild got stuck around 4 horse or saphy before TBC came out. Such an AMAZING raid
Naxx was hard but not for the reason most people think. Most bosses were very very basic mechanically. There's nothing complicated in that entire dungeon, not by today's standards. It was hard because you needed gear and people who showed up. MC and BWL even you could carry up to 20-25 people in those dungeons. There were no pass fail mechanics, just shitty players die and get carried by the people who know what they're doing. Same with AQ20/ZG20 and Onyxia, I have cleared all these instances with 8-10 experienced people. We actually had an easier time with onyxia because we never had any whelps spawn or aggro problems or anything like that. Everything was smooth as silk, just took longer because we only had 3-4 DPS in our small group. Everything was crazy easy mechanically.
Naxx was different, not because it was hard for people to deal with the mechanics, but it was actually tuned to where you needed a larger majority of the raid to be doing average or above average damage. You couldn't carry nearly as many people, and as the fights got harder you couldn't carry anyone. This caused guilds to fall apart, because higher end guilds started poaching lower end guild members who were experienced. This caused lower end guilds to fall apart and die or do the same thing to guilds below them. It created a cutthroat environment where only the top end guilds could proceed, but most of the time there wasn't enough experienced players on a server unless it was high pop. Most servers didn't even have a guild that cleared past Thaddius. There was no way to get experienced players who had gear unless you stole them from another guild or geared up a complete noob or friend and hope they aren't complete trash.
Asmon clearly never experienced any of this because he didn't play enough Vanilla, as evidenced by the 50g = 50k gold or more comparison, it's not even close. 50g is maybe 1000g in comparison, but likely less in my opinion for whatever that is worth. There was no where to really bridge the gap in experience in gear when people quit playing the game or left the guild, because there were no intermediate areas to get gear besides ZG/AQ20 and you needed people to just drag your ass through there. I think back on vanilla with nostalgia, and I remember it fondly. Even still, I never want to experience it again. It was a god damn mess unless you had 40 people you could absolutely trust to never ditch out who were average or above.
I cleared Nax worldfirst (Nihilum telefon ud warrior with thunderfury) and about all those resistance gear, what is he talking about ? We used frost gear for Saph yeah but all the other stuff ? Only other res gear i had was nature for some AQ40 stuff but nothing in Nax. And looking back to Nax, i agree it was very hardcore...i loved it that way. I belive there were some gear checks that contributed to why it took so long to clear. For example the four horsemen, was VERY VERY hard if you didnt have 6+ tanks with i think it was 4 piece tier3 dreadnaught right ? it gave unresistable taunt or something like that witch was more or less mandatory for that fight and to get 4piece on all those tanks took quite awhile in it self. Then there were some bosses with pretty deep (at that time) mechanics that took awhile to figure out while not having BIS gear. I loved my time in Nax, tbh in my 20year+ gaming experience this was the most fun i ever had in gaming. I honestly didnt remember lag or fps issues at all. Maybe once or twice at Thaddius but it wasnt that bad to me. WoW died to me when raids stopped beeing like NAX40, top guilds clearing the raids in like 1-2 weeks and shit. I loved how highly tuned stuff was back then...except for when it was delibirate cockblocks like CTHUN.
I went into Naxx with 35 level 70s before they removed it during BC. Most of us had greens and blues...we pugged it.
I can’t remember how many times we wiped. There was only 1 person who knew the fights. That instance was no joke!!!
5:00 what about grinding consumables in a group ? Just find a warlock to farm with, if you're healing. 5:50 You'd get righteous orbs, essences of undead and other materials for the guild bank while farming rep for naxx.Also, if you were preparing to raid Naxx, you will have had AQ and the other raids on farm for quite some time. By that time, you will also be at least revered, if not exalted with AD. 3.5k Health for a raider in Naxx also doesn't seem right with stamina buffs.
My guild killed like 4 bosses and were like "fuck it, BC is coming out" After that coming to raid was optional and we never got a group big enough to run it again save one odd time where we got 30ish and 10 other guys from guilds who fell apart or something. Got 1 boss down that run.
Two things noone mentions when considering the difficulty of vanilla raiding:
1. The difficulty of getting 40 good players into the same guild during that period. 20 would be good, 10 would be ok, 10 would be absolute trash. So depending on how well the 20 good players could carry would determine how far you got in raiding.
2. How many boss-pulls per hour you could make. When you wiped in vanilla, you respawned at the nearest graveyard OUTSIDE the raid instance. Which meant a long run to the raid entrance as a ghost, and then a long run(AQ40 ugh) inside the raid to get to where you were. and hoping no respawned trash. And then reapplying all buffs etc.
In the new Classic wow, number 1 will be less of a problem due to the average player being much much better at the game than they were then.
Reason 2 however I think will be crushing, even more so now that we are used to respawning alive usually 10 seconds from the boss, and ready to go again within a minute or two..
very much this. mc required 5 good (geared/clued) players. 10 meh. rest could be more or less afk. if you had ooc ressing rotations even more so. each successive raid slightly increased this because they understood that not everybody would be in raid gear from that tier. nax40 was designed from the onset with raid geared people entering it so it seemed far worse than it was.
the real reason so few guilds cleared it is because how long resistance farming took and how relatively short the dungeon was available before being removed entirely. if modern tools (and indeed modern combat logging) existed back then it wouldn't have been that difficult because people would have realized guilds clearing it were using lock/feral tanks for select fights and ACH gloves were the most imba item in the game ahead of thunderfury because few understood the importance of expertise despite defense stacking being a widespread thing. had you simply been able to review other guilds wipe/clear reports and see those glaring differences you would have course corrected instantly.
knowledge was actually valuable back then. speculation and myth were rampant kings. having a completed atiesh broom handle actually meant something back then.
Our guild was 2nd to kill ragnaros on our EU server back in the day, and very competitive through bwl (i forget the actual race info) AQ40 stuck at c'thun but nax was such a fking killer.
In my memory I dont remember getting geared for nax all that difficult, since it came out much later than bwl (at least in my memory) most people in our guild at the time were pretty well geared up, plus some AQ40 loot, also the attunement quest in was simple, all i remember about it was having to trade a nexus shard or something to an npc and that was it, i assume i already had enough rep, and id assume most players would have too as grinding out the lv60 dungeons which gave ardent dawn rep was a pretty common endgame activity at the best of times. At any rate our guild gave each raider a nexus shard from the guild bank for free.
Anyway onto nax memories, basically I remember nax40 as a time where you started to question yourself and your guildies in the sense of "hmm i guess that person isnt that good after all" like seriously the noth encounter he mentioned, if just one mage wasn't keeping up with decurses, that was it, you all died, so individual performance and such started to become a real factor, which sounds daft because these days everybody individual performance is measured every second with recounts etc. but back then that really wasn't the norm. Here's another example, the gargoyles trash mob, you kill them, they turn to stone , then you had to dps race them down to stop them ressing with full hp, again if one dps was on the wrong target, or not doing enough, that was it, they ressed up and you had todo it again, and again, and again until you prob all died. So tempers and drama quickly flared up as players who were below the curve suddenly got put on blast and angry players given it 110% every night had to suffer. That was my perception of the guild killer effect anyway. *edit* Oh yeah and the farming for mats haha, and the fucking resistance gear, god I remember grinding out a boss in dire maul for some nature res shoulders for aq40 queen boss all the time, but hey it was fun that was the game and it gave you something todo i guess.
Also if memory serves, nax used the same loot system as aq40, where the bosses would drop reagents that youd provide to an npc to get your gear, but in nax it was a lot more involved, not just requiring the boss reagent drop, and rep of course but also trash mob items too, in fact wasn't it different materials for different classes? Anyway on our first anub kill he dropped some braces mats, which went for over 110dkp in our guild, a stupid bid considering at the time nobody had enough trash mob reagents to even combine with the boss item to get the actual item. And hey, it was fucking bracers so. I could be wrong about all that, im just going from hazy memory.
After a few first boss kills in each wing we started to hit the wall, and with the continued c'thun shittery i seem to remember many people running out of patience, as nax40 was the culmination of all vanilla raiding, people started to get burnt out and it certainly was a negative time for our guild. At the time i was due to leave home for university so thankfully i had a good excuse to bow out.
Difficult: needing much *effort* or *skill* to accomplish, deal with, or *understand* . Yes, Vanilla was hard but people seem to think *HARD* translates into skill. Look at it this way. It's not HARD to lift a bench-press bar (45lbs) but it's HARD to do it multiple times. The NFL combine has a test where you bench 225 as much as you can. To them 225 isn't shit, but it becomes really fucking HARD when you have to do it over and over again.
Ah the good old farm days, had 3.8years played over a course of 12years (starting on end of beta). But at that time in life it was worth it, people calling you on phone at 3am to tell you to get your ass online for outdoor raid bosses to expand the gearing up new guildies, wiping months on end on bosses like bwl, AQ40, and then top with farming and helping to get ZG, AQ20, ETC But ofc you could pvp to gear up aswell atleast to AQ trash, but we used green resistance gear on many bosses to combo, another rng fest. Still loved it, loved it so Damn much.
I knew a guy at work that cleared vanilla Naxx. He actually had 9/9 Dreadnaught armor, I was so jealous there in my T2.
lol, i remember when running Onyxia or any fight that had large trash waves. run over, grab AOE threat of all the adds, and realizing i forgot to turn off floating numbers and all the numbers popping at the same time would disconnect me. if i was lucky the OT would grab the slack temporarily while i was relogged
Love how guy in back round says classic will die in a month yet unofficial servers have been going for years.
Classic TBC is about to be out, now classic WoW servers are in decline.
Plus the release of official/retail Classic WoW made private Classic WoW servers decline.
Perhaps the decline is temporarily in retail
Only managed 1 boss in Vanilla Naxx. We felt a bit out of our depth trying Naxx even after having cleared everything up to Naxx.
As a fully geared tank when nax40 came out it was a decent money maker. I'd sell my services to the highest bidder
I remember doing Patchwerk in Naxx 40..we were all basically aq40/BWL geared and we ended up having to use like 4 tanks and 15 healers all eating demonic runes, mana root tubers for mp5, mana pots and just basically spamming your biggest heals on everyone for as long as you could. It was so hard but felt so good to defeat it. That fight was my 2nd favorite coming up short to only C'thun.
I was also in a top guild on my server, with several server firsts in such as molten core, most BWL and AQ40 bosses. We never beat Naxxramas, we didn't beat 4H and Loatheb before we ran out of steam. I remember how we had to do weekly auction runs to sell gear to out of guild people to keep our naxxramas attempts financed. The runs quickly ran skeleton crews causing friction and drama between those who did their duty for the guild and those who just came for the "fun" (naxxramas). The guild survived to TBC though but I left soon after.
I haven't played the game the last few expansions and my druid has been abandoned since early TBC. I hope it is still possible, because it was quite a nice trip down memory lane to log on to my druid now and then to look at my lvl60 naxx gear. My personal museum full of gear no one can get anymore.