WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BUY THIS EXTRACTOR
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2024
- In this video, I explain why I don't think you should buy the Festool CTM MIDI extractor and why Festool make an almost identical alternative for over £100 cheaper.
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Extractor which I do NOT Recommend
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Extractor which I recommend you buy instead
(SAME BAG AND FILTER AND A LOT CHEAPER)
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Festool Bluetooth remote control
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3m Industrial Commercial Hose 38mm for Numatic Vacuum Cleaner
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music: none
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comment section although CZcams is getting stricter on what qualifies to be fit. - Jak na to + styl
For people who don't understand the point of this video....
In the UK, you get 3 types of extractor -
L-class - LOW risk dust
M- Class - MEDIUM risk dust
H-Class - HIGH risk dust
Most people do not realise that M-class dust extractors DON'T filter finer dust particles compared to the L-class, even though an M-Class is for medium risk dust and an L-Class is low risk dust. (or so it seems with this particular extractor anyway). They have the same bag and filters. The M-class extractors in the UK are exactly the same as an L-class extractor but with an added alarm to warn you when it loses pressure.
It does not filter the higher risk dust than the L-class.....
When you get an H-class extractor, things make more sense as they DO have better filters and they DO filter finer and higher risk dust.
If you are not in the UK then it will likely be different.
I think it is misleading that an M-class machine is there to filter medium risk dust when the L-class filters medium risk dust anyway (same filter)
Here in Holland you also have the ctm and ctl. I want to buy a 36 ctl or ctm for my planex lhs Sander, do you think the 36ctm and 36ctl are the same? There is almost 200€ difference in price. Somebody that has the answer? Greetings
@@31busse It depends what you're sanding - but I think you're asking the wrong question for the planex.
36 ctm will warn you when you're about to cover yourself in dust (suction loss) - if it saves cleaning on the job 1, 10 or 100 times - you can calculate whether it's worth it to you
36 Autoclean will knock the dust back off the filter into the bucket. This is the feature you want for extended planex use
BAGS BAGS BAGS - keeping your filter pristine makes everything work better
It does not apply in general. There might be other brands where the L-class does have a different filter than the M-class.
But for Festool, the 'L=M without flow sensor' has been the case for years and year and years.
@@31bussehey, not sure if you find the answer, but with planex you probably need auto clean function, which if I not mistaken is only on CTM 36 model.
As I don't read instructions until something happens, I did used CTM midi for filer sanding probably every month or so. It was going strong. Only once after heavy all day sanding it was super hot, so I took it apart, cleaned everything, changed main filter and it was still working fine.
But then i accidentally read that CTM wasn't suitable for fine filler dust collection so I digged deap for suitable extractor.
Long story short, you need extractor with autoclean function and special hose as autoclean tends to break hose much quicker, I was between metabo (cannot remember model) Hilti and Festool, Festool as I got better price compared with Hilti, and quicker delivery and Bluetooth module compared with metabo.
AC is also available on L models
I guess the differences could be more clearly stated on the packaging, but the alarm costs $100 extra and satisfies overbearing health and safety regulations. The problem is not the festool vacuum, but an overreach of government. Personally I like that the L class vac is capable of M class filtration as long as you don’t let it get clogged
ur video just saved me £200 as i was about to send my ctl back to get a ctm, and all i do is use it on house renovation projects👍🏼
Very interesting, I've been using festool since 2001 and I did not know this..(I sand wood veneers and fillers etc..) and have always used the standard L in 240volt mode with a Rcd .
Nice vid 👍🏻
I will be buying the Festool cordless sys vac soon with another bluetooth adaptor which makes working so much easier with the dust extractor.
Good and honest video! Well done. I have a festool dust extractor and it’s good back 4 times. Not worth the money I would say. Oh and every time it’s come back the Bluetooth doesn’t work
Agree. I read somewhere before I “upgraded “ and I thought they said that the m class caught finer particles I was as surprised as everyone when I found out the filters and bags were the same.
I was surprised myself after I bought mine. The issue that I had was that the person in the tool shop said that the M-class is needed if I use MDF as it would be better for my lungs and catch the finer dust, whereas really they are exactly the same in that respect.
After seeing this last year I bought the L class festool ctmidi. It’s fantastic compared to my old M class Bosh GAS, which annoyingly & constantly beeped and banged so much I smashed it to pieces 😆
I realised I didn’t need m class working in people’s houses.
Thanks.
Thanks mate. Extremely useful info.
Thanks for this vid im in the market and u have likely saved me a few bob cheers pal
Great video mate, you saved me money! few giggles along the way
I did a lot of comparisons before I bought an M class and went for the Bosch bigger capacity, wet and dry and you can switch the alarm off, just to say that when the alarm goes off most times it's telling you the suction has dropped my mate got the festool and he opens a vent at the tool end of the pipe and seems to cure the problem on the Bosch you can alter the suction by switching to a smaller or larger pipe size
Thanks a lot for this video! I was looking for a good dust extractor for my tracksaw and router. I will be using MDF for sure so I was looking at the M version as well. Looks like a mask and/or airfiltration would be a better way to invest the 100 euro.
I am not sure why you are getting negative reactions to this video. You have just saved me over £100 and I am so grateful. I too was going to get it from the tool shop after they told me that I need an M-class to save my lungs. Obviously having the same filter and bag, it won't save my lungs anymore than the other one but it will save me money. I have just cancelled the order and they happen to have the CTL in stock!!! 😁 Thank you so much. You have earnt a new sub my man!
I am glad to have helped. I aim to save people money where they can.
Because the information presented in the video is poor and misleading. Do your proper research and you may change your mind about the suction alarm
Thank you so much for your honest review 👌
Thank you Karen. I do try to be as open and honest as I can, even though it pleases some and upsets others. Thank you for the kind comment.
Completely agree….my Festool extractor is seldom used these days having gone over to a Mirka…they constantly try to reinvent the wheel, if I knew about the ridiculous beeping and the little adapter( which is never pointed out in their advertising) I would never have bought one, would I buy a car that needs an accessory to make it run properly? No!
Just bought the CTM and I love it. It wouldn’t be the first time that I’m working and find out about the bag being (almost) full by seeing the wooddust spraying out of the saw instead of it being sucked away decently. That’s all particles flying around. Safety is measured by the percentage of particles that will get to you. This doesn’t depend solely on the filter but also on the airflow. The alarm prevents just that. Btw the filter being the same doesn’t mean that they are ripping you off by asking 100 bucks more, they give you a better filter then they have to in a cheaper version. That’s another way of looking at it. Many brands of dust collectors work like this. It’s just part of the regulations that they build them the way that is required. So it has nothing to do with any Festool Fanboy bullsh. There is not one brand that sells the M class for the same as their L class.
I have the CTL MIDI and love it, very happy I did not get the M class. The Festool CTL filters exactly the same as the M class so for my lungs and projects it is identical. I do not require nor want the alarm. I do wonder if Festool pushes the M class over the L class as there is a significant difference in price.
Very helpful video, thank you 👍
Bought the basic one for £414 delivered, pretty happy tbh, thanks again 👍
I bought the CT 36 MIDI several years ago and have never had a complaint
Interesting. I’ve been trying to decide between Festool and Bosch dust extractor. Seems like you get more capacity with the Bosch for the money. Have to do some more research though.
No doubt the annoying alarm will go off well before the bag is actually full. I use a ctl sys. It's not perfect but it's compact size and excellent dust extraction more compensate for the small dust bags.
Luckily I read an online forum first before I bought my Festool extractor and just went for the CTL.
I don't think we have those product distinctions here in the states. I imagine the difference in price reflects the necessity for the overload alarm and adapter, plus the certification fees or something. Sounds more like a government issue than a festool issue.
That being said, if your workshop doesn't have M class requirements, then it sounds like the L class is def the way to go!
Thank you! 👍
I too use a Henry connected up to my dewalt orbital sander it works really well but recently been looking at the Festool planet 2 so will need to get the ct36 ac to go with it. It’s 2 grand setup man shhhhesh
Like the tools&stuff channel, out of 1000 review videos, there is but one or two people telling it how it really is without all the fanboy affiliate pretence. Well done brother for bringing this up whilst noone else seems to be doing so! Truth is truth regardless of how much people are hoovered into their brands lol
It makes me wonder if one is seeking a dust vac at a reasonable price, whether the CT25 E is the best all round option due to the filter&bag filtration being the same as these models, with the benefit of a bigger bag/base volume @25L without all the marketing traps. Festool say it's not "classified as L / M or H class" yet the motors, filters and bags are all the same lol follow your intellect, unless you are bound to on site prohibited filter classes
Let's be honest, the only thing festool have over all the rest is the fact they have a long life reusable bag, that's it! If you want the best, the starmix ipulse h-1635 safe plus seems to be it but prepare to get a bank loan for regular new filters and bags for that vac.
Good video and some very good points raised. Just one thing if you are working with MDF then a good dust extractor is essential and I cannot see how an L/M/H can actually protect your lungs unless you are using the 36mm hose to breath through.😉 My point is the dust extractor will keep the dust levels down in the shop but the only sure way to truly stop these particles getting into your lungs is to wear a respirator. As you work a lot with sheet goods have you considered partnering a domino to your extractor? Subscribed.👍
I totally agree. I do wear a respirator when I work too. I think the idea is that it stops as much as possible from going into the air. You may joke about breathing through the hose but it wouldn't surprise me if regulations in the future stated that we needed our respirators hooked up to it 😂 I do have the XL Festool domino machine which is actually featuring in a couple of my future videos as I need to make a lot of cabinet doors and also some interior doors. Thanks for subscribing and don't worry about the quality of my older videos as the new ones have improved dramatically.
@@christopherinteriors6521 Well air fed positive pressure (through a waist mounted filter box) masks and visors are available (used widely in boat building - fibre glass and resin work). I will catch up with the rest of your output.👍
I have just seen your amazon link and could have got it a lot cheaper instead of using the tool shop 🤦♂thanks anyway man
Nothing is silly its simply good info 👍
Hello Christopher, I would like to point out that although Festool may use the same filter in their L and M class there actually is a difference in the filter specifications for L and M class filters. I suppose Festool just supply the better M class filter with their L class machines? In short, the L class filter must trap "only" 99% of the dust with a grain size of under 2 microns , the M class 99.9% of the dust with a grain size of under 2 microns and the H class 99.995% of dust with a grain size of under 1 micron which includes carcinogenic dusts and dusts contaminated with pathogens. The M class also must be certified to meet the (global?) standards. Some countries/work sites now stipulate that a M Class machine MUST be used. The legislated alarm is not a "full bag alarm". Depending on the type of dust collected, the bag may get blocked/restricted well before feeling and "looking full". It is specifically designed to warn the operator when the air flow is too low to safely suck up hazardous dust. This can be caused by a full bag but this is not the mandated purpose of the alarm. Please check these facts for yourself then perhaps update the video or comments?. Cheers, Doug
You have listend the difference between what the L-class and M-class filters are in regards to UK regs. However the filters are exactly the same in these machines. The same part numbers. This is why I made the video to help people to realise that so thank you for helping with that point. I am sure that I mention that the alarm is for blockages as well as letting you know when the bag is full, if not the I do apologise. The idea of this video was purely to indicate that if you are not on a building site, the M-class will not do a better job of filtering than the L-class so people should save their money.
4:11 Festool DOES make H-class vacs. Just not in the Midi form factor. They do however make the CTH 26 and CTH 48.
Now, I didn't look in EKAT as to what are the differences between the CTM and CTH, but I won't be surprised if is only the filter and the bag...
I've always understood the bags and filters to be exactly the same hepa rating so it shouldn't matter what materials they are all equally capable for all types of dirt and dust, only the motor power varies. Other considerations would be whether you're getting the anti-static hose the built-in Bluetooth, brake, wheels, etc. that can affect the price. So even though bags may be the same size other features coming to play with the price. It shouldn't be difficult to study all the models online and decide what is best for you all the information is there
The CTM and CTL come with the exact same features and accessories, the only difference that I can tell really is the beeping. Thats why they included that relieve adaptor to stop the bloody beeping when u are using it on a sander or other things with very narrow dust ports. I will be getting a cyclone tomorrow that I will run my CTM thru and I bloody hope that it wont be beeping juyst due the to increased flow resistance!
So I am starting into woodworking and this would be my first VAC, are the L and M sufficient enough for fine particles? or what do I actually need then?
If you are looking at this particular brand then the L-class and M-class are exactly the same in regards to fine particles. They have the same filter and same bags. The L-class is cheaper but you wouldn't be able to use it on a building site in the UK as they require M-class by law. If you are looking at other brands then I am afraid I can't advise as I haven't used a whole lot. It depends on the route you want to go down in regards to price point. If you are just going to be woodworking as a hobby then I would go for something cheap in your local DIY place, as long as it has a HEPA filter or HEPA bags.
Nice informative video👍
Thanks for sharing this....this help me save 200 euros
In Australia we have no L class.
Festool sell the CTE 15 HEPA which is $AU750 and has a basic anti-static hose, no alarm and no storage space in the top. It's marketed as a Vacuum/tidy up though hidden in the marketing is that it WILL WORK AS AN EXTRACTOR. HEPA is also better than an M-Class Filter.
CT15 MIDI is AU$1070 and comes with the smooth anti-static hose, an alarm, and the space in top for the gear.
Is the hose and alarm worth AU$300? I don't think so.
Festool are really cagey about how they market the difference of these 2 models and REALLY push the "Bigger capability" of the MIDI when It's not more capable it just has some better parts...
One thing that ticked me off about the festool vacuum is the power cord. I thought it was good at first till I used it in the cold where it had the flexibility of rebar. I cut it short and use an extension cord now.
Wow. That is something that I didn't know as I haven't used it in any cold places as of yet. Thinking about it, I have only ever used it in homes where the heating is on but I will look out for that next winter. They are very thick cables which I guess is because it has a power take off switch.
This is simply a case of a person really not knowing what they're talking about but thinking they do.
The point of the alarm on the m class is to tell you when the suction falls below a level where it is capturing enough of the small particles required for it to meet regulations. The most dangerous particles tend to be microscopic or at least minimally visible to the naked eye and as such without the suction alarm you'll likely be breathing them in long before its obvious that the bag is getting full / clogged and theres a visibly noticeable loss in suction. Festool don't hide the fact they use the same level of filtration in them, its you not having done your research.
Personally I'm a huge fan of the ctm midi and wouldnt be without mine. Worth every penny and more. You cant put a price on your health
thank you
As a painter I travel with my vacuum from place to place and M class has a top for the whose to put it in, while L class MIDI just some strap or rubber band. So I am happy with M class, although with the class it really seems like a scam as I believed that M class has a better filter or something.
what i hate about this vac is the stupid push button switches, and the fact you cant change the speed unless the machine is running. The alarm beeping is annoying too. im going back to a ct 26
You might as wellbuy a Metabo ASR 25 M SC for a little less with self clean filter and more capacity.
That looks very much like the mafel 25L and the starmix ipulse but at a fraction of the price lol hooray to marketing strategies eh
So if I need to replace the filter and bags for the "L class" vac. Do you get a choice of different class filters and bags too? Also can you buy a reusable "M class" bag? Chucking out bags all the time is not only bad for the environment, but bad on your pocket.
They are the exact same bags on the L-class and M-class vacs. The exact same filter too. They do make a resealable bag that would fit both the CTM and CTL machines but they are not suitable for fine dust. If you were using yours on something like a planer then you could probably use the reusable bag as it will be wood chips. If you want to catch fine dust then they are not recommended. The part number for the reusable bag is 499704. They are over £100. You can actually reuse the normal bags if you cut the end off and use a plastic strip to keep it shut. There is a video on CZcams somewhere as I remember watching it, possible on Ron Paulk's channel.
@@christopherinteriors6521 OK thanks for that. Yeah I think I seen that video. He used a bit of pvc plumbing pipe to reseal the bag. Obviously festool don't want to make reusable fine dust bags... When they can make more money with single use bags.
@@jimbokiwi9322 I know what you mean. It works out that I pay £3 a bag so I only really use the extractor for power tools. If i need to clean up a job then I use the Henry and on my machines I use an extractor. It does get expensive.
Merci beaucoup pour cette vidéo
M class is for job sites that need a M rated dust extractor. It has a clogging sensor and that's it.
Never heard of Bluetooth until festool for vacs. But now one can buy Bluetooth for any vac for fraction of the price..I'm tryin to figure out why there so expensive..is it worth the extra money really...I'm just trying to have dust collection for my saws routers an such and 7 to 1000 dollars is like WHAAAAT...everything is rediculasly praised these days for a guy tryin to build things from home.. meterials is a whole nother topic that I don't even want to get into lol..thanks for this vid....
Hey Christopher, If you look up the video of Matt Estlea Bosch GAS 35L review, there is a guy from Bosch, almost at the end of the video the guy says something in line of: All out dust collectors have M rated filters and bags even the L versions. Because we thought why not put the best into it but most people think now that even the L can filtrate like the M but this isn’t the case. He doesn’t really specify why or eloborate on it. Maybe you could check the video out.
Thank you. That sounds really interesting. I will have a watch tomorrow after work.
He didn’t get scammed, he just didn’t do his homework. He got a vac with an alarm but with the same dust rating. The higher rated vac is a lot more money.
Someone didn’t watch the video. If you did then you would have learned that the “higher rated” vac is this vac and the higher rating only adds an alarm. Thanks for watching. Please consider subscribing my friend
Nice review. I was hoping you’d mention the flawed bag design on that model.
Thank you. Would you be able to elobrate on the flawed Bag design? I have an issue now that it fills one side of the bag rock hard and the other is still pretty empty.
The paper inlet folding when puttingon top.
Will you hear the alarm having hearing PPE on?
I am very deaf and I also wear ear defenders and I can sometimes hear the alarm. If not then the client will usually tell me in the end 😂
Festool do make a H class extractor, but it is in the larger 26 series body and 240v only. A few years ago they stopped making the H class in the 36 ltr series along with the 48ltr extractors.
I wonder if they had the same filters as the m class and L class. That wouldnt make sense either.
@@christopherinteriors6521 No the filters for the H class are different and only fit the H class extractors.
@@carlb401 That makes sense. having the same filter for the L and M class doesn't make sense.
@@christopherinteriors6521 Well i have just checked and Makita do the same for their VC3011 L class and VC 3012 M class extractors, both use the same filters.
@@carlb401 I have been doing a lot of reading up on this myself. It makes no sense to a lot of people as they are meant to all catch finer dust, the higher the rating.
cant you put the hepa filter in if you want?
It has the Hepa filter, exactly the same filter as the CTM model.
After much research I went with this product VACMASTER WD M38 PCF 240V M CLASS DUST EXTRACTOR
£199.99 - bigger and bulkier but it’s better than the Festool…
Having been on the same journey re Festool Midi filters/L, M, H classes etc The best advice I received - once I'd covered the typical tasks I'd be using an extractor for - was, choose an L class extractor, with M class bags and H class filters. So I sold my Festool Midi (older model) which was struggling to handle finer dust, and bought a Starmix iPulse 1635 - which handles everything with ease - has more suction, a greater filter surface area and has a greater capacity. Saying that, I did buy into the new Midi (L class) just fitted a Hepa filter, and use it for more general work. To be fair to Festool certainly in their older tool catalogues they were very clear about what level of work the different models were designed to handle, not sure how explicit they are now.
The salient thing to bear in mind with dust extractors, is what doesn't get caught by the filters will be vented through the exhaust or possibly enter the motor assembly - and this dust can be more or less hazardous depending on the material, what work is being done and what sort of space you're working in. Any doubts buy a Hepa filter, and consider a respirator depending on the work and location.
TNO dustfree working is a very useful resource for comparing different models of dust extractors using standardised tests, they also explain the variables involved in a way that's straightforward and to the point.
Thank you. Some excellent information there for people.
Doesn't matter which one you have, the plastic falls apart after a few years like it's 200 years old, made me a big festool fan a bit skeptical
Thankyou
for some reason in Denmark, the cheapest is the CTM midi. It is cheaper by around 115 GBP.
That is strange that the prices are like that in Denmark. In the UK the M-Class models are more expensive as a lot of workplaces require them. Maybe I should have moved to Denmark😂
What is the Henry equivalent in the United States?
Thank You!
I am not sure. Henry is made by a company called Numatic if that helps. They are very popular in the UK and most people have owned a Henry, a Dyson or a Hoover in their lifetime. I am not too sure about the USA though.
@@christopherinteriors6521 Thank you!
I was today years old when I found out my vacuum was also a blower! But true Festool is sus. good. But sus. Like there latest plunge saw is “more powerful” because it has a thinner blade.
It’s HSE mandate to use M Class extractors on site if cutting man made particle board etc - the fine outweighs the cost upgrade.
Yes I mentioned that in the video that you need one on site and that the video is specifically for people who don't work on building sites.
I don't own a festool but it seems that maybe, just maybe, you should have read the spec's a little better and maybe even just did a little more research. Oh, just a note, you and henry have a lot in common, liked the comparison!
Thank you for the reply. I do agree that people need to read specs more when buying online however, many people will go to a tool centre with the intention that the staff there would have better knowledge than them on the tools. The people in the tool centre would hopefully ask what the intended use is, in this case, I use it for mainly hardwood and some MDF and then they would say that I should go for an M-class extractor. Which is correct in 99% of cases but makes no sense with these 2 Festool machines. Thanks for the compliment, Henry is legendary 😂
No doubt you will get loads of dislikes from the Festool fanboys for this. I totally agree with you. When you go into the store, the sell this one to people claiming that they need it when using MDF even though it is the same filter. It is a complete con.
Exactly that my friend. It isn't so much Festool themselves but salesman in various tool stores. I have met a few fanboys that you speak of, they usually calm down when I get the Mafell stuff out the van 😂 All joking aside, I choose each tool for different reasons and never stick to one brand when it is plug in tools. My tools vary from Mafell and Festool to Chinese specials on Amazon and the occasional Lidl bargain. It would be overkill for someone who works in their shed, doing it as a small hobby to buy a £700 track saw and it would be unreliable for a full time woodworker to buy a Parkside tracksaw which they can't quickly swap if it breaks. I just want to help people all I can.
I am a Festool fanboy, and I agree with everything Christopher said in this video about the CTL and CTM vacuums. I bought all of my Festool equipment from a brick and mortar (actually steel and concrete) store, and the salesman told me what Christopher said. I thought I wanted the M-class vacuum, but after the salesman explained the differences between the two Festool versions, I bought the CTL 26E. As a woodworking hobbyist, the commercial health and safety regulations do not apply to me, and there is no value in purchasing the M-class vacuum when the only functional difference is the alarm and ported adapter. I always wear hearing protection when I'm in the shop, so I doubt I would hear the alarm anyway.
The same filter is used on the CTL and CTM versions of the 26, 36, and 48, so Festool vendors don't have to stock six different filters. Some manufacturers might make different versions of the L and M-class filters, but not Festool.
I Wanna buy a 36 ac ctm or ctl for my planex Sander, im from Holland and the difference is almost 200€. So there is no difference between the ctm and ctl version?
Festool actually has an H Class Extractor. It is the CTH 26. It can be used for asbestos dust.
But yes, for the extra 110-120 pounds you could have bought the L class. Because the alarm and the Bypass is really all you get extra.
As a contractor here in Germany we are not allowed to use L class extractors by law.
Thank you for the reply. I would assume that the H-class actually has better filtration? That would make sense, like it would have actually made sense for the M-class to have stricter filtration than the L-class, rather than just an alarm. Finally, someone commenting understands where I am coming from :)
Your videos looks pretty good, unfortunately I can't speak German
😂
@@christopherinteriors6521 the difference between the CTM Midi and the CTH 26 is roundabout 200l air suction a minute.
CTM Midi 3700 litres per minute.
CTH 26 3900 litres per minute.
The Filter size on the CTH 26 is almost the double. I guess the Filters should be different because you’re allowed to use them for asbestos dust and Mould.
Thanks mate.
I already do the videos in two languages, a third language would be too much. 😂
Don't think it's a problem festool need to address its just a lack of research on your part before purchase unfortunately. It's not that the M class isn't speced highly enough it's that the L class is over speced for the L class category. I bought the ctl middi after some research for £360 and couldn't be happier with it. I'm 99% domestic work and it meets all my needs for tool dust extraction and clean up. I use an adapter and Henry tools for clean up at the end of jobs
You are correct, the L-class is over specced for the category.
To be fair those alarms are handy when a tool bogs down, especially if you're sanding then you can lift your tool and not get junk in your workpiece.
You make a good point there my friend. I don't think that would justify the extra £100+ for most people though.
@@christopherinteriors6521 yeah probably not for most people, but if you are looking at a machine its worth considering.
It's strange that they make different class machines in the first place, rather than different class filters
as far as I understand it, the difference is not only the filter grade but the filter knock function in the dust class M. The filter of the L vacuum cleaner is better than it should be and also meets the filter grade for dust class M. but the filter of an L vacuum cleaner would clog with a lot of fine dust, the M vacuum cleaner offers a filter knock function to cope with fine dust.
In the UK, the CTM midi model does not have a knock function. I think this video has caused a lot of confusion as the laws, regulations and festool's tools all vary from country to country.
A good beat about the back of the van usually has the same effect lol
I can understand your criticism and technically there is hardly any difference. Except for the monitoring electronics. Unfortunately, in Germany it is required by law that a commercial company with employees use "M" class vacuum cleaners. So it's more of a bureaucratic question. Class "H" is mandatory for high-risk dusts such as asbestos.
I have heard this through a few comments now about Germany and some other European countries. Fortunately, all the work that I have done overseas has been in clients homes so I haven't needed to worry so much about code, especially as the homes were empty. In the UK, we only need M-class when working on construction sites but we also need 110v tools to work on construction sites too. The H-class too is also mandatory here for asbestos although I think only certified companies can remove asbestos anyway. I may be completely wrong on that. It is really interesting to see different government's requirements on things and how it all varies from country to country. I know Germany to be very strict, Britain to be almost as strict and then when you look at places such as Indonesia they don't even wear shoes, have guards on tools or use any dust collection. It is a funny old world.
Yeah that’s not cool, festool should be a lot more clear!!! I remember when I was trying to find out what the differences were between models, it was so confusing but after a lot of research I got the HEPA variant with auto clean as I could relate to the HEPA standard. I use festool a lot but this does feel misleading from them but I’m curious to know who sets the requirements for the differences in class of dust removal, is it festool or a universal standards body? Either way, good video to help people more easily understand the differences 👍🏼
Thank you for the great response. I am not sure who sets the regulations but it varies from country to country. It wouldn't be Festool though. It would be interesting to know if the UK still uses EU regulations or whether it has been relaxed or made stricter. I don't have to follow regulations for this in the UK as I never work on construction sites thankfully. Do you need a certain class machine when working in customer's houses in Czech Republic?
@@christopherinteriors6521 I’m just a hobbyist/work for myself so am not up to date on job site codes. It’s fairly well regulated here so I’d imagine so but I’m an expat from the UK so as not well versed here in the Czech Republic on code and regs
Just sold my CTL midi, gone back to using the Henry, the midi is actually quite heavy to lug around, 240v M class midi is useless, only buy M class for site work and then it's a 110v version, it's bloody annoying in the UK just to use a vacuum. Saying all that the bluetooth is brilliant.
I still use the Festool midi because I like the bluetooth and the blower. For sanding, cleaning up at the end of the day and for the mitre saw I use the Henry. You just can't beat an old Henry.
COSHH Safety at Work to fulfil employers' responsibility.
Is the blower on the Festool always blowing out?
Can I attach a hose to the blower and put it out a window to extract the smell, bad air outside while vacuuming?
Thank You.
It is always blowing out yes so I guess you could do that if you have a spare hose.
@@christopherinteriors6521 Thank you!
The point you make just before 3 mins is valid. It should be made clear. I bought M class from a company in Exeter with ebay discount and it came in at £446 inc VAT. Otherwise I would have bought he CTL. I’m a decorator so its a bit different with my usage and I like the fact it tells me that its blocked because it’s better than the customer telling me. Also paired with a rotek 90 and it is a stunning pairing for my work, utter gamechanger.. But yes I also have Henry!!
Colombo... ты их разоблачил)
Спасибо за видео❤
3:49 not sure what you mean about 240v plug on your extractor🤔.Yours is 240v and plug is 240v make sense. I have site 110v variant, because I always work on big sites and of corse plug is 110v🤔. have ever that plug is useless not allot people know about it, but is got a little sticker saying 770W. So in that regard Im not very happy, because all my tools I want to connect is ower 1000W. luckily I managed to spot that on time and have not burned the socket🤣 Now I'm using that trigger on/off switch, very happy with extractor like every Festool tools are quality pease. Only negative I would say about Festool is that you can't borrow to a "cowboys" it's not idiot proof for sure🤣 and it's price cost allot but is pleasure to use it if you know how😃
Came to the same realization after I bought it, i wish i saw this video before I did.... Festool do make really nice tools and products, but boy are they a rip off company way more than others....
I k know what you mean. They tend to get a lot of patents on things, like the domino machine that nobody else is allowed to produce. It is frustrating. They are great tools, not quite on the same level as Mafell and Hilti but they are up there.
Modern mdf doesnt contain formaldehyde
Just buy the L class and put a new sticker on!! 😉
why is everyone so worried about dust particles? I have been working in the cabinet industry for 30 years now and breathing wood dust all day every day, I am fine! it is not going to do anything to you it is just dust.so bioxarre to me when people obsess over dust like this. Of course yes use a dust collector but the heap filter and bagging it in a fleece bag? that is way overkill. a 10 dollar shop vac is more than enough to collect dust.you dont need a fuckin 1000 dollar Festool "extractor" with a hepa filter, how weak can you be?
I see your point but when you own a business it is not about what feels best to us, it is about avoiding penalties and ticking boxes.
Idk who sold you that saying it has higher filtration but my rep made it very clear it’s only difference is the censors and circuit for the alarm which by law it needs to be considered “m class”… it’s not festools fault it’s the laws fault and most reps make it clear it’s the same filtration
In Festool's defense - as far as I know it's the same for the vacs made by other comapnies they only differ from the L class versions in having that alarm. I do want to point out that in Germany you need to have an M class vac if you work at people's houses.
I can imagine that in Germany. Anytime that I have worked alongside German craftsman, everything must be exact and strictly perfect. Which is a really good thing and I enjoy that. I do see what you mean about it not being just Festool. My issue is that when you go to a tool store and say what you are looking for, they advise you that you should get an M class extractor if you work with certain materials, even though the actual filtration in this machine is the same as the L class. Do they sell the L class at all in Germany then or is it just the M class?
@@christopherinteriors6521 No I totally agree with you this is quite bad store politics if they sell a product to the customer just to extort more money out of them, without it having any advantage to them.
As pertains to the situation in Germany I do not quite agree on the everything must be exact and precise thing you mentioned - often times In Germany it's just non-sensical incoherent bundles of rules that really only make things more complicated. However, when it comes to work safety I think Germany (or rather the craftsmen association the _BG_ ) is indeed doing a lot and many of _these_ rules make a lot of sense (ironically I often found the safest way is most often the more precise way to do things).
As pertains to the shop vacs: Yes they do sell both models. Apart from the evergrowing hobbyist market I think people who buy those would be professionals that work on their own and intend to use them in their shops. In these cases the safety regulations do not really apply (only the ones that apply to keeping customers safe do apply).
Interstingly, in the German Hobby woodworker Web there are a lot of videos / articles etc. pointing out that as a hobbyist one does not need the L version. So I guess the festool vendors have tried to increase their sales as well ;-D
That is not 100% true. If you run a shop by yourself in Germany you can use a L class extractor, BUT if you have employees you must have an M class for their safety. Especially in wood shops as there are a lot of hard woods where the fine dust particles are carcinigens and known to cause cancer. We got have the CTL series here and the CTM but also H rated extracts when working with things like Asbestos, mold or older mineral wool.
Looking at my GF I can tell you people do not know when their bags are full so the flow measurements it does to make sure you still have suction is actually not bad. Especially for people doing things like plaster work and stuff as that stuff gets into filters quick and clogs them. What is even worse is when they try and sell woodworkers the AC (autoclean) extractors as they do nothing with wood. Starmix is a different story as their cleaning works for wood but festool there is no reason for it in the woodshop and they even mention that on their site I believe. I personally am between the Starmix Ipulse M1635 safe plus and the Festool CTL 26E. I like the Bluetooth on the Festool but the Starmix has a lot more function power and amazing auto clean therefor one could use it bagless.
Its exactly the same in more "progressive" jurisdictions inside the U.S. (west and east coast). If you're working alone, at home, then most health related "standards" don't apply (noxious fumes, chemicals, etc), and OSHA (health and safety admin, involved in "worker safety") standards won't kick-in, as they figure "hey, its your health, you do what you want with it". If you're doing commercial work, or an employee working 8 hrs a day exposed to certain noise / particulate / fumes, etc, that is where the health standards kick-in so the employee doesn't get "victimized" by an employer's lack of providing safety equipment or safer preventative measures.
@@ronc4146 that sounds interesting. From what I have understood, in the US, the machines are different to suit the regulations and I have heard that the stricter machines have what I call the "coughing" function that bangs the filter?
In the UK, on places like building sites you need an M-class machine to filter more harmful dust but the lower class machines actually have the same filter, the difference is the low pressure alarm. The regulations here also mean that if I work in somebody's house, I don't even need dust collection and I can legally sweep it up with a broom afterwards ( not that I would ever do such a thing)
There is a 30 day money back guarantee so why didn't you send it back?
This video is advising people to do just that. Many thanks Marcel
Trade people use Festool, Fein, Flex on building sites because they quiet and have better flow ratio then others like Makita, Bosch. Flex M class 4700 L/ per Hour, Fein dustex 35 M 4300L/H, Festool CTL/M 26 3900 L/H, CTM Midi 3700 L/H .
Everybody knows that difference is in flow sensor but sadly you need M class 110v on site or - go home rule. H&S can test it on spot regardless of dodgy M class sticker. This baby m class ectractor is very good option and will last.
Thank you for the reply. Not everybody knows the difference is in the flow sensor, I would say that most people don't know that. Most people are told when they go to the tool shop that they need an M class if they are working with materials such as MDF. L, M and H classes refer to low, medium and high risk dust. If it is about the sensor, then why do H-class extractors have more filtration, not a louder sensor? The whole idea of the classes is to filter finer dust. You know that it is the sensor, the majority of people don't which is why I made this video. Thank you for the kind comment though and your knowledge.
£100 quid for the pressure sensor and alarm is not that expensive.
If its gets you by on Uk building site regs then its obviously needed.
Festool make 110v models for site use.
I agree with but that wasn't the point of the video, Many thanks for the comment.
👍
Chris, I appreciate your effort to help other avoid "being scammed", but you need to adjust your perspective.
There are three issue I take with your video:
1 - I do t think you've had employees. They are usually fat less skilled than "us the veteran masters". I have several times walked into jobsite where my and not my employees are oblivious to the dust in the air. This is not some revenge plot, they just don't YET ha e that sense of awareness we take for granted.
2. engineered controls vs work practice controls:
People are unreliable. It's more EFFECTIVE to engineer a solution to a problem than to rely on an operator to remember it. This is not a matter of opinion, and we'll documented. One instance of somebody not catching the vacuum not working and having to pay for the cleanup that might follow with more than offset the cost difference between the handy feature that tells you on your bag is full versus relying on unreliable humans.
3. Henry?
Everybody loves their grandpa because they have fond memories of him, but would you really want to go to a job site with him :-)
I work on a job site where we all take pride in our tools. What kind of tool brand really wants to market itself on the premice that we are too stupid to work their machines, and hence require paying more for an alarm? The issue is with transeparrency and honesty. If both vacuumes have the same filters, and the issue is filtration, then the L class will do what an M class can do. end of story.
Thank you for your response. I have had and still have employees. I personally think that if you can't hear the vacuum is full then chances are you won't hear the beeping either. Maybe that is just me as I remove my hearing aids and wear ear defenders when I work ( as should everybody else 😂) This video is purely about the fact that they use the same filters in the M-class and L-class machines.
Always think the filters are rubbish on these The matabo or Mafell has two much more efficient filters and must be better
I got the l-class and put an m-class sticker on it.
To say that Festool doesn’t make some high quality machinery would be, I think, dishonest, but in my opinion they are a bit (lot) overpriced🤓
This 110v on building sites is a ridicules. Been working in a UK and makes you carry very heavy 110v transformer all over building site. All other countries use 230v on sites and is safe but not in a UK. Good luck to all you brothers.
This is one of the main reasons that I refuse to ever work on a building site in England. Too many over the top rules. Domestic is far better. Much more money and a much easier life. Hopefully you have found something better now?
Nosy government telling to you what tools to use?
I’m a festool buyer but I only have the l class as I knew that m class crap was just to extract more money.
I’m only private anyway but I did do my research beforehand
The problem these days is a lot of us still use the tool stores and allow them to point us in the right direction. I am glad that you didn't waste extra money.
We all know Festool is ripping people off . I am a Festool nut and love the stuff, unfortunately there gear is way over priced for the quality. A good example is the kapex trolley and wings, horrendously priced, especially the trolley .
I know exactly what you mean. I think they have a lot of patents on stuff like the domino machine and a lot of unique parts on their tools. Don't get me wrong, they are good tools but they are nowhere near the quality of Mafell and Hilti. The prices are also too high for a lot of products. Like you mentioned, the saw stand. It is just a few bits of metal and they charge a fortune. If you want to laugh/cry, go and look up how much the 3m and 5m rails are for the track saw.🤣They are exactly the same as nearly all other manufacturer's rails, just with the Festool logo.
their dust extractors have always been wildly overpriced, like many of their tools, the tracksaw and the domino and maybe the rotex sander are worth the money, the 780 quid small router, or 620 quid drill driver...not so much...
I agree. I prefer the Mafell over the Festool when it comes to the tracksaw, even though the Mafell is more expensive. With the Domino machine we don't really have a choice as its either Festool or Festool. I couldn't justify spending the money on a drill or small router etc. That to me doesn't make sense. Thanks for the comment. It is nice to see someone with a similar opinion.
@@christopherinteriors6521 the patent will time out soon on the domino, i expect a lot of other manufacturers to come out with their own version then, peter millards channel did a review of the peanut joining system as an alternative for about half the price.
If you have no choice and you have a lot of time on site .meaning money .its not a option . Plus your claim back on tax
You would claim back any extractor against your tax if you are using it for work. I mentioned in the video that IF you don’t need it for site work then you don’t need to waste the money for the M-class model. Hope this helps
Sounds more like problem is the salesperson rather than Festool. I'm a diyer, don't have any Festool gear. I read specs and regs about dust and it was clear M class filters are usually same as lower class and only difference is the alarm about loss of suction with auto-clean as an extra feature for more money. I have a little, cheap, ex-demo M class V-Tuff for when I need an alarm. Otherwise Henry and big Titan with small Titan as blower - with good masks and thorough blow and vacuum, I get very sweet air even after grinding brick and cutting mdf
I agree that it is more likely the sales people than Festool. I am glad that you knew about the filtration, sadly a hell of a lot of people don't as the main idea of M-class vs L-class is to catch smaller dust particles which anyone would assume means it has a better filter as that is the only way. As you have read the specs and regs, surely H-class machines don't have the same filters too?
Festool is one of the most disappointing purchases I've ever made. Wildly overpriced for what you get. My charger has broke my sander has broke my vacuum has broke I've only had them for a couple years. I would never buy more. They are about twice the price they should be.
They don't sell the M class Festool here in the wild USA. I have a midi, 26, 36ac. Each has their place for me. 95% of all my use is on site at customers occupied homes.
If you are within the return period return it and buy the L class.
You guys don’t use mdf so your okey don’t need the m class lol
Festool rips people off man.
Here in the US, we don't even have the equivalent M class. It's HEPA rating, then you go up to the AC (Auto Clean) models which thump the filter with air for drywall sanding and silica removal.
Confusing range of models you folks have.
A friend of mine has the Makita extractor with the thing that shakes or thumps the filter. A customer once asked why the vacuum was coughing 😂
If u didn't like it why didn't you return it.
the video isn't about that, it is to help other people in making their choice. I have had so many people responding to me, thanking me for saving them money.