The Engine That Was Banned From Racing😭 | Explained Ep.29
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- čas přidán 26. 08. 2023
- This is the story of Twincharging, an idea as old as the ICE itself, perfected in italy, proven in the crucible of Group B rallying, and forbidden as a technique that even the bravest and deep-pocketed individuals not dare attempt. Welcome to Explained.
Music: By White Bat Audio
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What engine should I do next?
2zzge
2008 Ford GT V8
BMW M57
Idm to me. Just something GM related 😅
4g63t if not already done
I own a twincharged Volvo. Known as the B4204T27 engine, I believe it to be the only successful implementation of twincharging on a mass scale. Most people, when I tell them it's twincharged, think I mean twin turbo. You'd be surprised just how many people, even enthusiasts, have never heard of this technology. The car is awesome, and embodies just what you describe. You get the low end torque of the supercharger, with the high end supplemented by the turbo. You can physically feel the switch between the two at around 4,000 RPM. It truly gives you the best of both worlds, without turbo-destroying anti-lag. Plus, the induction sound when the intake resonators are removed is absolutely out of this world.
That's really cool
VW had a 1.4 TSI that was also twincharged in mass production, for example in their best selling model Golf.
@@6rimR3ap3r Had a Scirocco with this engine. Remmaped it to 210hp. A gem to drive, low end torque from 1100rpm and you feel the turbo kicking at 3600rpm... Incredible technology
not mentioning the volvo engine was the only miss on this video
What Volvo has that from factory? Thanks
Rip to the lives lost in Group B rally. What a time for engineering crazy engines, but disappointing the safety aspects were definitely overlooked
They had helmets and seatbelts, modern for the era
Agreed, no way you could get a racecar down to 890KG and not compromise safety components, some teams were running aluminum roll cages which is just ridiculous.
True, even the 30 that survived their lives will be altered forever.
@@337speed The Cardboard Rollcages of the Lancia 037 is not to be forgotten... lightness at the cost of safety
Man stuff right there buddy, no time for safety in 90s ... as for the spectators oh well, learn not to stand in the wrong place for a pic/thrills.
Now they try rally away from ppl(closed circuit is meh)... like the army(drivers) they know what they signed up for
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽🍻🤙🏽🇦🇺
Even in sim-racing, driving Group B rally cars close to their limits is terrifying, I can't imagine actually driving one on those tracks with the spectators everywhere.
Dirt rally 2.0 really gets you on edge pulling the weirdest faces making the strangest noises, as you narrowly avoid stacking a delta s4 into a line of rocks 😂
Fr, driving some of these cars in the sims, whether in dirt or AC or otherwise, makes you wonder how it was possible to drive these cars in real life. Ludicrous power
@@nenthal1761 Yup, I put hundreds of hours into the Dirt Rally's and RBR and still feel intimidated by these cars.
@@amr1t_ Driving Quattro S1 E2 i felt more annoyed than anything else.Bloody thing just refuses to turn.
@@hillclimbracingfan5821 makes you wonder how the drivers were making it work back then. Feels like I understeer at 1000 mph in a left 4
I operate locomotives for a living. When I started out, I was talking with the mechanic about the turbo on these monster engines. He explained that the turbo is shaft driven by the engine until we reach Throttle 7 or 8 (full throttle) then the shaft disengages and the turbo spins off exhaust pressure.
I made the comment, that's kind of like twin charged engines!
He looked at me like I was nuts...
I knew then, we were not the same kind of engine nerds.
So it's kind of like a hybrid centrifugal supercharger/turbocharger? That's really cool. Does it decouple automatically, or is there a separate control to do it when you go through the throttle range?
He is talking about an emd. They drive the turbos from a one way bearing. Once you get enough boost pressure, the turbo overruns the bearing
"It's said there's no replacement for displacement, but in actuality there is. It's called boost."
One of the best lines ever
well.. i rather go with rpm tbh. its just more fun
then you’ve never driven a boosted car
@@snucc1000 enough of them but i just dont like them. they are boring esp oem once.
Displacement is presumably the total amount of air / air fuel volume that fits the combustion chambers at atmospheric pressure, not just the fixed physical volume the stroke and bore all cylinders take up. Forced induction always artificially increases displacement because you're forcing more air / air fuel via compression into the combustion chambers than the engine can ordinarily provide to itself without forced induction, thereby increasing displacement. Increasing RPM also "effectively" increases displacement; As RPM increases, so do the amount of combustion events per second. An engine at 10k rpm "effectively" displaces more air fuel than the same engine does at 6k rpm at any given time. There is no replacement for displacement because almost all developments in car engines to give them more power artificially increase displacement in some way, shape, or form.
how is it one of the best lines ever when its wrong, any engine can be boosted, and at the end of the day the bigger engine will win
I'm always floored with the quality of your videos. 337 SPEED is cruising into the highest echelon of automotive content.
Thank you very much!
i'm seeing like 3 or 4 racing puns and i don't know if any of them are intentional
Absolutely, these guys produce some of the best documentaries. Imagine if these guys produced your history lessons in high school. Everyone would have enjoyed classes a lot more.
Italian here. The car or the engine didn't get banned because of its crazy power, but because spectators kept dying because they would often place themselves on the outside of turns or even inside the road itself.
You can find some group B rally videos where cars crash into dozens of spectators killing many.
Whoever decided to close group B, focused on blaming the cars, but instead it was the spectators.
Modern rally is faster than group B, but it's nowhere close to being canceled. They just have more strict rules on spectators.
Side note: engine has never been tuned above 600-650HP for actual races, and most of the times it was set to 400-450
For the sake of completion and information, the twincharge system for the Lancia S4 was developed by eng. Claudio Lombardi, who later went at Ferrari Racing due to Lancia's "WRC" quit in early 90s.
Another interesting thing about the Delta S4's engine was that the block and head were cast in one piece like a prewar Bugatti.
at 72PSI I figure a head gasket would have been an exercise in futility.
Or an Offenhauser...
1:40 It wasn't the Lancia or its engine that got banned from rallying, it was the whole Group B class that was banned.
The class was spiralling out of control with deaths of drivers and spectators the result of lax safety of the time and cars that were simply too fast for the conditions, tyre and suspension technology and indeed, the drivers who had to steer them.
I wanted to point this out as well
volvo has a twin charged engine in production right now, i believe its the T6 lineup of engines
Group B and all its glorious cars deserve a video, reminding us that some of the cars and car technology we have today was obtained through blood, sweat, tears, loss, and cheating. Love your videos, keep it up man.
The evolution of this engine is the triflux engine.2 turbos on a 4 banger,where the valves are located in an X pattern,In a way that every side has 4 intake and 4 exchaust valves,made by the engineer Claudio Lombardi,the very same man who designed the Aprilia RSV4 engine.I think you just found your next video.Nice quality by the way.
Some aircraft were actually twin charged in the later half of WWII. They used turbos mostly to raise their flight ceiling and less performance gradient. They started feeding superchargers with turbos as a means to start with sea level pressure before multiplying it for more power. This was also being done on MASSIVE diesel V12 engines before the computer age.
The german fighter jets also had nitrous for a burst of speed in aerial combat.
@dr.hugog.hackenbush9443 FW190 to allow a Higher service ceiling, i.e. the B17s.👍
RR Merlin.
That's what Lancia really was. It's heartwrenching to see where they are now
Thanks Fiat....I wish there was a better alternative for their financial problems in the 70-80s....
Lancia was Fiat's mad cousin and experimental division where they tried new ideas before eventually fit it in a Fiat. Mildest of these experiments was the SOHC 1116cc engine that ended up in the Fiat 128 built from 1969 and after that built in many sizes and fitted to more Fiat models than most can name.
If Ford had bought Lancia, that would have been the end of Lancia, same with Alfa Romeo.
Despite the dangers of Group B, you can't deny the technological advancements made during that timeframe: AWD, carbon fiber, twin charging, anti-lag, computerized fuel injection...all these eventually made their way into the consumer market and became commonplace.
Don't forget twin spark plugs.
Glad to see someone giving this engine so recognition. It’s crazy how many enthusiasts don’t know about this systems existence, and just how revolutionary it was, and still is in some ways
Volkswagen had a twincharged 1.4 engine a few years ago, a Polo GTI had 180HP. They had great power delivery but against a normal 2.0 Turbo they didnt get great fuel milage and suffered from lots of design faults which made them unreliable and unbuyable today...
Great video. I can’t be the only one who sees this footage from the 1980’s and wishes that they could step back in time, if only for a few moments, to witness this racing firsthand.
Lancia Delta S4 - one of my all time favorite cars. Henri had incredible talent. Unfortunately Henri and Sergio's lives were cut too short and consequently Group B.
your delivery on these videos with the graphics is next level....I love it
I drive a twincharged car.
I own 1.4 Golf 😂
(starts misfiring as crazy when 70%+ open throttle😭)
Yeah I was hoping someone would mention this!
In the Netherlands you have a autocross class called "superklasse" or super class in English. In that class you may have a maximum of 7 liters engine displacement and 8 cylinders. We have somebody driving a 2.5 5 cyl audi tt rs engine with a supercharger and a giant garrett turbo running 1100HP
Killer spotlight on early twin charging in motorsports. There's a great video on Hagerty that Larry Chen did about a green twin charged EVO VI. An extremely nice build. Keep up the good work dude 🤙
Yeah I love that build! I have 1 out of 3 complete twincharge vehicles
@@claudedottin1312 Especially when the dude said that the owner just had it built so he could say he owns it and leaves it with him LMFAO. I've built dozens of customer cars, mostly Wankel powered as that's what I built with my late father, and not a single one said "build me the sweetest car you can & when you're done just keep it & enjoy it." Damn near a dream scenario right there lol. Like he said in the video tho twin charging really isn't necessary anymore with the advancements it not only turbocharger technology but also metallurgy & engine management. Twin scroll housings, Inconel & billet turbines, integrated BOV's, ECU controlled anti-lag, Co2 controlled wastegates and the list goes on & on & on.
@@jdmmike7225 true true but the way I building and reasoning (other than needing out) is what kind of drivability can I achieve that fits my taste while keeping a certain budget etc. only one of mine will have a by pass similar to a scrorocco engine . One of mine will be on my FC to experiment with compound boost and choke points of motor.
Man your videos are really really good. Explaining how stuff works while telling a story about how it was employed. Very interesting stuff man. Keep it up.
this is only topped by Lancia's ECV2 Triflux-Engine for the Group S Rallye. That is for me still the craziest engine from that era, even tho it never made it into the actual race because Group S never happened. But the engineering behind that engine is magnificent
Dude I think the ECV2 would’ve been the greatest car ever made if they hadn’t cancelled it because they reversed the turbos, manifolds, and upgraded the cooling on the triflux to make it more drivable and on top of the amazing engine was a smaller, lighter, and more aerodynamic body with better weight distribution that still looks modern to this day, the car was about 30 years ahead of it’s time.
I always get so pumped when I see a new episode uploaded from your channel. You have a hell of a thing going here keep up the great work.
The Porsche 959 was twin turbo charged. Designed for Group B but Group B was banned before the car was finished. Also the F40 was meant for Group B as well
So stoked to see you gain more subs! You do a great job with these breakdowns 👌🔥 have you done any cosworth engines yet?
Great video honestly, i believe all of us can see, the passion you put in these videos.
You might want to look into "The Doomsday Engine" that was the DOHC 426 Hemi. Nascar said "nope" to that one.
God i love this series. so well edited and written. keep killing it my guy!
I love this channel. Always entertaining and informative.
Keep up the amazing work.
And of course its lancia who did this. Damn man what happened to them. What a shame. Imagine if they never stopped what they could have created.
Their inability to significantly expand outside of their European heartland was a major problem. Just look at VW GTI sales in North America for basically decades at this point for how much they love their hot hatches over there and yet Lancia was just never able to expand into that and countless other lucrative markets. 🤷
Group B is and will be the best era in the history of motorsports, period!
This is the first video I see in your channel and MAN that was PERFECT .
I didn't subscribe in a channel this fast before .
Got to see Bruno Ianiello's Delta S4 at the Hallau Hillclimb in Switzerland yesterday. 760hp, 890kg's. It sprints to 60mph in 1.9 seconds. There are videos of it floating around, but they really don't do the car and driver justice. It's insane.
Nice video, good job. Just perfect timing. Keep on going.
These videos always look like full scale 7 figure production documentaries. Keep up the good work man
Love your videos man, so well made
The letter S in S4 name is Sovralimentazione in Italian that means forced induction :) Great video of a pinnacle of italian engineering!
It literally means Over-Fed
You make the best videos about cars and history 👏👏👏👏👏🔥🔥🔥
And thank you for your work 💪
What a cool documentary. The pace and flow of this was so perfect I barely realized where I was in the timeline
awesome work as always man!
Dude… this is seriously the deep good automotive videos… no BS. No side notes. Just pure history truth… thank you for these sir.
another great vid keep them coming
Every explained video is getting better and better. Keep it up!
The parasitic effect is not worse than boost lag. If you have a supercharger that is stealing 50hp but giving you 150hp, you are just getting a flat 100hp boost. The cool thing about the shaft driven stuff is that there is zero lag. It is basically like having a bigger engine. As much as I like that, my heart will forever be with the turbo. I like the slight lag. I like that it just get more and more insane the higher the RPM gets (On good builds). The sound of the turbo spooling just makes my spine tingle. 😤
Man i really really wish this guy did longer videos so sad to only have 10 or 12 minutes of this guy every few weeks
I want to twin turbo my Mach 1, but it would be sick if I could get a tuner to bear down with me and get a twin charged set up. Extremely complicated but it would be incredibly rewarding if I could pull it off
Hellion has a twin turbo system for the supercharged Mustangs and Hellcat platforms. With modern turbo tech, lag is virtually gone, and the only reason to twincharge is just for clout. Stacking power adders is really inefficient but great for shock factor
@@hoost3056 so far, hellion twin turbo kit is the actual feasible plan. I haven’t decided on which set up I want between the stealth or flashy one. Stealth would be a sick surprise but flashy would be awesome to show off. Either way tho, I’m keeping the stock cats to pass inspections
@@EAJ97 dang, my state doesn’t do inspections or emissions testing
337speed uploads, i stop everything to watch his gems
Technically, and as very much pointed out IN the video itself, it wasn't the Delta S4's engine that got banned, nor that got the S4 itself banned, nor the whole Group B, it was all the weight loosing cuts Lancia did to the S4 that made the car way too fragile, not only in case of a crash (as the one Toivonen and Cresto suffered), as well as in the car's handling itself.
I barely understood the physics but thoroughly enjoyed the story. 😅
I love these videos. Don't be afraid to do some bike stuff if you're running dry on ideas. Hell if you did a vespha it would be good lol.
_"No replacement for Displacement"_
- Isuzu with their 600hp 30,000cc NA diesel V10
We use supercharger and turbo in our '73 beetle with Fiat 1.1L engine (downsized from 1600TC, 8 valve). Displacement is reduced because of race regulations and enables 953kg minimum weight and wider tires (285) in our class. Detuned (ignition) 450hp/400Nm @1,9bar and 8000rpm limit (power still rising) because of "original" gearbox (waiting for Porsche GB to arrive). We can use boost at least up to 3,2bar (have not tested more yet) and 12krpm (55mm stroke). Virtually no turbolag and power "curve" is just a straight rising line so very nice to drive.
Love my twincharged 4ag aw11 mr2.
Big thanks for this masterpiece 🙏
I am a bit of a motorsport nerd, and did a season as a (circuit) paddock marshal here in the UK, and knew that turbo and super charging were technically compatible, but never knew that it had been truly implemented and was called 'twincharging'... Duh... Thanks for filling in my unrecognised gap in knowledge. :D
Your videos never fail. Well explained and beautiful lay out bro. Keep up the good work 💪
I know I say this every time you upload but I stop what I’m doing to watch your post. They are always so so good! thank you again 🫶❤️
I was really waiting for your videos man. As soon as i saw the bell just tapped instantly. ❤❤
It’s been a while, I’m back on schedule tho🙏🏽
72 psi lol. That makes my 25 psi look like child's play lol
Man, those days were amazing to live in... Both Group B and Group C sports car monsters were insane. Yes this kind of twincharging was amazing, but the real deal at the time was to prevent detonation, with those levels of boost, with rather rudimentar (by today standards) electronic engine management...
My man 50grand! Your channel is the shiznizzle! Don't stop makin these videos for all us true gear heads! Straight up!!!
@2:40 (what amazing noises!) so what about safety, are all those people going to push the car back on the track if it goes off!? Wow they are close!
Nice video about these engines. But for the record a supercharger boost intake vacuum to psi. There are two kinds, centrifugal and positive displacement. There's a big difference. Also a intercooler is (IN ) between 2 superchargers, a after cooler is (After) the supercharger. None of this is new to the engine world, this stuff has neen done since the industrial age.
Without clicking I just knew what the engine was. Crazy times. I was lucky enough to see Group B cars in action, and the even crazier Rallycross variants that inevitably were built when GpB was banned. Mental machines
Great video! How are you making all of these 3D animations? Do you have a team? That makes data visualizations?
Luv ur videos, how about a series or builders like Boosted Motorsports. He has a full SRT Hellcat swapped engine an interior in a Dakota, Swapped Ram with Hellcat, and a 2 Gen Ram swapped 5.7 Hemi with 8 speed transmission. You explanation are absolutely 💯 on 🔥. LUV ur videos
LUV is a Chevy/Isuzu truck back in early 70's thru the early 80's. So Light Utility Vehicle Uniform Romeo videos. Makes no sense at all.
agreed. great idea. I've never seen builds as solid and clean as Boosted Motorsports. I mean, its so much more than just an engine swap with these guys! It's the interior, the body, suspension, everything!!
The reason there is “no replacement for displacement” is that it’s a lot harder on the engine to do so with boost which will make the engine more likely to suffer long term or short term. Not that there aren’t bad NA engines, but boost definitely lowers lifespans. Thus bigger displacement NA is more power the safer way. But you know what they say, safety third 😈
Boost doesn't lower lifespan, if that were the case turbo diesels wouldnt be getting millions of miles. It is all about heat management and proper maintenance. Too many people put boost on their cars and push out too much power without proper supporting mods and tunes leading to early failures.
@@tehtehkhantengames8580 I didn’t say there weren’t great stock boosted vehicles either. It’s true if done properly, it won’t make a big difference, but in the long run, it’s just another potential problem for the future
@@EAJ97 And I am trying to say it isnt... power is a potential problem. Heat is a potential problem. Compression is a potential problem. In fact if you set it up correctly a turbo can get you more power, with less emissions and less stress on the motor. It is when it's used to make up for power or displacement that it becomes detrimental to engine life. Your entire premise is wrong in the first comment is all I'm saying.
@@tehtehkhantengames8580
At what cost???
Mass & COST
Still cannot replace displacement. A larger displacement engine will make more reliable power more easily and more cost effective - and with better long term durability.
That said, there is room for all.
@@tehtehkhantengames8580 Turbo diesels huh, maybe because... I dunno, they have to be extremely overbuilt just to handle their method of combustion? Maybe steel wet sleeves, ginormous con rods and bearings with 15 head bolts per cylinder might make an engine pretty durable regardless of what stress you put it under. That and turbo diesels may even be more overbuilt to handle the increased power and heat.
There is no argument to be had here, your statement is completely pointless. OBVIOUSLY the engine whether designed for boost or not will wear out faster when you put it under more stress. This applies to revving it higher, higher compression, cam, whatever. Larger displacement engines BY DEFAULT have bigger bearings and rods, they by default have more to "wear" away; OBVIOUSLY they will last longer than a smaller displacement engine producing the same power by whatever method. You take that same turbo diesel and take the turbo off it, it will almost certainly take longer to wear out.
This is the most pointless argument that could possibly be had but its youtube so I guess I can't expect much.
Worth the wait..... splendid as always. Cheers man.
Dude this was awesome! Great quality vid. Good info and history
soon as i seen the notification i clicked 😂
4G63 Maybe
Yes. Been needed to do that one
you're dishonoring the drivers to say the safety standards were "too low," the drivers all knew the risks full well, honor their conviction.
Yessir, you just earned a sub bud
I made a twincharged awd 6speed 3.5L 99 accord coupe
bro I love the automotive history type videos they are some of the best content on yt
Bro seriously deserves more subs
PEUGEOT T16 ❤🔥
These days with higher compression ratios thanks to fuel injection and vastly better tuning capabilities the supercharger wouldn't be necessary to achieve higher, quicker output..
Absolutely amazing for the day though ☝️
Been waiting for another one of your videos man.
I really love these videos. Do not stop doing this. PLEASE!!
So it was group B rally racing that was banned and not the engine itself. I hate being nitpicky but your title is what grabbed my attention and I really dislike clickbait.
Only discovered your channel recently but I love these videos!
I've learned more from watching 2 of your videos than years on youTube.. keep them coming bro!
You are awesome, your videos is too good for this world man 🎉😅
I can't believe I get to watch these content for free! You sir, are doing a amazing job🎉
The Lancia Delta S4 engine was not banned. The whole Rally group B was banned due to the danger of all the participating cars!
The Lancia Delta S4 is probably the greatest rally car ever made, with only the Audi Quattro coming close.
An absolute weapon!
🏆
How comprehensive is this guys video ! Clear explanations
Hey man, your videos rock. well done.
When rally was more popular than F1
I mean, the engine itself wasn't really banned, the class it raced in was ended, and hell, its planned successor was to be a twin-turbo, attatched to an improved composite chassis.
27 were build by Abarth, one can tell if its original rally car from its licence, originals are licenced in Torino and plates start with TO.
The best video I seen on you tube in a long while!
I've been thinking that the spinning shaft of a turbocharger could be extended to be driven by an electric motor that declutches and is turned off when the pressure on the exhaust side of the turbo rises high enough. Its battery could be set up to recharge from the alternator only on deceleration.
Electric turbocharger. I think Garrett is working on something like that but more for fuel efficiency. (Edit) Now I think of it I believe F1 does/use to do something like that with there turbo to charge their batteries.
fantastic video - great work!
Let's gooooo, notification got me hyped
Man, you really do make some beautiful videos.