XCP-NG / Xen Orchestra VS Vmware and Why We Choose It For Our Clients
Vložit
- čas přidán 8. 01. 2020
- lawrence.video/xcp-ng
Amazon Affiliate Store
➡️ www.amazon.com/shop/lawrences...
Gear we used on Kit (affiliate Links)
➡️ kit.co/lawrencesystems
Try ITProTV free of charge and get 30% off!
➡️ go.itpro.tv/lts
Use OfferCode LTSERVICES to get 5% off your order at
➡️ lawrence.video/techsupplydirect
Tesla Referral Program Offer
🚘 www.tesla.com/referral/thomas...
Lawrence Systems Shirts and Swag
👕 teespring.com/stores/lawrence...
Digital Ocean Offer Code
➡️ m.do.co/c/85de8d181725
HostiFi UniFi Cloud Hosting Service
➡️ hostifi.net/?via=lawrencesystems
Protect you privacy with a VPN from Private Internet Access
➡️ www.privateinternetaccess.com...
Google Fi Service Referla Code
📱g.co/fi/r/TA02XR
More Of Our Affiliates that help us out and can get you discounts!
➡️ www.lawrencesystems.com/partn...
Twitter
🐦 / tomlawrencetech
Patreon
🔗 / lawrencesystems
Our Forums
🔗 forums.lawrencesystems.com/
Our Web Site
🔗 www.lawrencesystems.com/
What is Xen Project / XCP NG Server Open Source Projects and How It All Works Together
• What is Xen Project / ...
xcp-ng.com/images/resources/x... - Věda a technologie
Made the switch when Tom did, unlocked all the CPUs, RAM, and other restrictions that VMware wanted $1000s for
Switched from Hyper-V a couple of weeks ago, and I'm with you there!
The VMUG plan that gives enterprise license keys for home use has swayed me to VMware many years ago. Will have to consider XCPng going forward
I'm currently in the process of building a home server (using the first used enterprise gear I've ever bought). Your previous videos covering the topic of XCP-NG and its features (especially for virtualising FreeNAS) were really helpful for me, and I've made a fair amount of progress based on those and the XCP-NG documentation so far. I've not finalised my configuration yet, but I managed to get PCI passthrough working with no problems to pass an LSI HBA connected to a disk shelf through to FreeNAS. Thanks for the XCP-NG videos and tutorials you've done so far, and I'm looking forward to some more in the future if you've got other topics to cover.
amp888 make sure to get at least two servers
Good to see the profession! Keep it up bro!
*Thank you. Very interesting insight and good video!*
One thing I noticed is that the audio is a bit out of sync (?) maybe I am mistaken. This was not bad in any way, please see it just as a remark.
TOM. Couldn't agree more. Used to be a VMware guy. Now I preach xcpng.
This is really great to read this. It helps to push further and try to disrupt (at our scale) this market that was a bit stagnant the last decade.
@@olivierlambert4101 Really appreciate you chiming in on it yourself Olivier, thanks!
Is there a reason you prefer XCPNG vs proxmox?
VMWare is good ( its way better than hyper-v , hyper-v is pathetic ) it has many amazing features, horizon is very good. But , i get a nasty taste in my mouth every time i log into the console , not sure why.
Thank you very much for the channel - it is amazing! I am starting with the virtualization, and I would like to know what would be the order of watching the first several xcp-ng' movies so to configure the lab properly, with the storage, fault tolerance etc.? Thank you! Best Regards
Almost 100k subs
Love your content on all sorts of FOSS projects over the years. XCP-NG works well.. i'm running it home labs over vSphere due to licence nonsense also. BUTT, can you speak to the current known security vulnerabilities? can the hypervisor be hardened properly aside from control-plane isolation?
I'm running XCP-ng and Xen Orchestra Community Edition and it's fantastic. The paid support model is the future of enterprise platforms.
I totally hope so :p That's my vision, at least.
@@olivierlambert4101 If you pay for support and not the license the support has to be amazing or you can tell them to fuck off and get a 3rd party in who knows the system well.
I hope its the future.
Hi Tom. Thanks for a lot of high quality videoes with very user friendly explaining :) If i were to setup a server with 8 hdd and were planing on using both FreeNAS and Xen, in which order would you do it and why? Many thanks :)
forums.lawrencesystems.com/
In version 8 the GPU exposure seems to be built right in, or it was a checkbox during install. I had a few old Quadro cards that I stuck in my test pool servers and the few VM's that I built showed those cards. Lots of learning to do.
You mentioned the constant licensing phone home stuff, have you looked at Zentyal as a small Windows server replacement? I just started working with it in my home lab, but haven't really set anything more than DHCP up yet. Group policy is my biggest question with Zentyal (Samba 4).
Very nice video, every minute I watched, I grew more enthusiastic to try this. Certainly will try it out. How easy is it to migrate virtual machines from ESXi to XCP-NG? That is the only unanswered question but very important.
Just use the cloning software
Hub is XOA only as I understand. There is no plugin available for building. A bit like the netdata implantation, which is great but annoyingly you can't enabke the handy button in OX, you have to go to port 19999 manually. It's still a great combo though, and I've had less crashes than with esxi and its awful halfbaked web interface.
What do you think about oVirt vs XCP-NG?
So would a thin client with a critix receiver be able to connect to a VM running on xcp-ng?
I downloaded the xen orchestra ova file and when I verified the md5 checksum it was different(verified using 2 different way). I did notify them though
Tom, could you make a video on compiling the XOSAN code for use with xcp-ng?
We are working on XOSANv2, that would be easier to deploy (less complexity). With it, you should be able to follow any existing tutorial for GlusterFS. Obviously, a turnkey version (just few clicks) will be available in XOA so you can setup easily, bundled with support for production env.
I am still trying to test xcp-ng, but I can't make it work as a vm, tried with Hyper-V and it doesn't boot (already enabled the cpu extensions). Any idea how to create a virtual lab to try this out? Thanks
Why use Xen i/o KVM?
I'm sold. Is the VDI (Virtual Desktop Infrastructure) option open sourced as well?
XEN had VDI ?
I understand you typically use FreeNAS for your SAN solutions. Is that true for your clients as well? and what hardware do you usually recommend?
The TrueNAS systems
Great informative video! Question... Can i run NCX-ng on a laptop and also access the virtual machine, interact, from same laptop? I am looking for a solution for a laptop that i can load a Hypervisor, Type 1 BUT can also interact with the virtual machines from the same laptop... Possible How? Thanks!!
Not sure there is a way to do that, not something I have tried. Best to load Linux and use a tool such as VirtualBox for that scenario.
VMware has an interesting feature that's the Vsphere replication. Do you know if there is a similar thing in XCP-NG?
Yes xen-orchestra.com/docs/continuous_replication.html
I realize this is a bit old, im looking at switching to proxmox for our home lab server setup, seems that Xen Orchestra is a must, what's the most cost-effective way of doing this realistically, and not wish to be rude, this is new for us don't really want to spend a lot until we know what we're getting into.
Have you tried Red Hat's virtualization solution based on KVM "RHEV"? It seems more credible for large enterprises.
We move our office servers to XCP-NG one year ago and with the pandemic period and all the home work to set up for our employees i have too say was the best decision we ever made in the IT department. We scale up our internal server to external server for home work lighting fast and manage all this with XO from home. Maintenance cost are damn low, performance and realibilty are at the state of the art.
Support cost are ridiculously low.
It's a great system.
I struggled for 2 straight days to get XCP-NG up and get XOA on there. I can log into the webUI but when i try to register I get "unknown error from peer". I tried to SSH to the XOA vm and try registering via CLI, same thing. I tried creating a ISO storage location, same error. I went to the xcp-ng forums to find a solution, after i created my account it made me log back in: credentials invalid. Its been 3 hours and the forgot password link still hasnt arrived.
This close to scrubbing the whole damn project. Anyone know why im getting this message?
Hi
I'm having a lot of trouble with xcp-ng and would like your help if you can.
After installing xcp-ng I imported the XOA, so far so good but it doesn't ping even with static ip and doesn't pick up dhcp, I also tried to install a vm windows and without success I can't ping out.
Thanks for the video. As a enterprise vmware admin myself its always great to see other solutions. On a off-subject question but related to the overall concept of open source verses closed. do you ever get concerned by the closed source of pfsense v/s opnsense? I enjoy your pfsense videos you offer and also run that myself at home. Thanks. Doug
pfsense is open source, so I don't understand the question.
@@LAWRENCESYSTEMS ok maybe the term closed source was not correct. i was referring to this quote from the opnsense folks. docs.opnsense.org/history/thefork.html . Again i use pfsense at home and enjoy that distro and the work that goes into it.
Proxmox has everything Lawrence is talking about. Except it doesn't have a desktop application but the WebGui is enabled with more than enough option for day to day operation.
Edit : Sorry Lawrence commented way before I finished the video. :)
Debian, GPU passthrough and HDD passthrough works great on Proxmox :)
Additionally, with Proxmox, you have containers. I use them a lot!
@@Mr_nah True. Recently I have developed a liking for docker and now have started running docker in LXC. LOL.
Obviously you never explored Xen Orchestra UI ;) Continuous replication, DR, delta backup, multiple schedule, key backups, ACLs, Netdata integration etc. So the web GUI of XCP-ng is really able to do tons of stuff.
@@olivierlambert4101 I never said Xen Orchestra is bad or it couldn't do stuff I merely said Proxmox can do everything that Lawrence has talked about in this video. :)
What do you recommend installing xen orch on? Assuming not a VM...
XOA for example, is running in a VM and that works great. Obviously, if you aren't in production, you can play with XO code and try to install it on a Raspberry Pi.
I have installed a Debian 9 VM on a local storage on a host in a couple of different pools. It was a pretty minimal Debian installation, and built XO from the source via a script which will update it and also allow you to roll back if the latest build breaks something. (GitHub user is Ronivay I think.l.) I set that VM to start upon startup of the host and start first. It works well. I wasn't able to successfully update to Debian 10 last I tried, as it broke something in XO. Though I'm building from source, for anything beyond a homelab or small and simple production environment, I recommend support packages from Olivier and his team. They are very responsive to issues and know the code. A lot can be learned from the XCP-NG forum on the website!
Only thing some ova will not work but I use this beside one server
I am wanting to use xcp-ng but it appears that the XO is no longer available as a free license anymore. I don't need any special features, just basic virtualization of a few VMs but I am not interested in managing everything from CLI or compiling from source (unless I must). Was going to use ESXi but the 8 vcpu limit doesn't work as one of my VMs is quite resource-intensive and needs at least 8 true cores and ideally the full 22 from one of the CPUs. Proxmox doesn't seem as well fleshed out as XO or Esxi for the WebUI. I do plenty of sysadmin stuff for work, I just want something simple that allows me to run a few VMS with passthrough of HBAs and GPUs for compute.
Hoping you can help, thanks for your videos, they have been massively helpful and interesting.
Where do you get the misinformation that there is not a free version? It's on their site as it always has been xen-orchestra.com/#!/xo-pricing
Sooo....I noticed the control panel you log into at local Host shows the "not secure" warning. Is it possible to use ask?
You can install your own certificates.
How well would this work with a BHyve like model?
Where I run FreeNAS as VM on the XCP-NG platform, and pass through the Disk Controller to the VM and provide a NFS/SMB/iSCSI drive for the rest of the VMs to run off of?
Been running like this for a year, it's great.
I would not run FreeNAS as a VM in a commercial enviroment, but it will work.
@@LAWRENCESYSTEMS Is there a different OS that you would recommend to provide the Base ZFS enabled storage platform instead of FreeNAS?
Maybe Something like CentOS setup with ZOL?
Edit: This is what I am going for: b3n.org/vmware-vs-bhyve-performance-comparison/
@@markgilbert249 XCP-ng has ZFS experiemental support built in. Just google for it.
@@Nagilum3 More or less experimental than FreeNAS? Lawerence stated that he wouldn't recommend FreeNAS in a commercial Environment, would you recommend an experimental ZFS system in the same situation?
I planned to go XCP-NG for a server updated last year, but things were to critical to catch up on learning XCP-NG enough to migrate to, plus is would not support the older systems I'm forced to run still. VMware, somehow, supports older hardware than XCP-NG. Maybe next time. VMware wasn't too expensive for the small setup I needed and it took only a few hours to migrate from an old dieing cluster to a newer one. Things had gotten too critical due to budget problems.
Does XCP-NG support my old Dell R710? I have a 5680 CPU in it.
Is it possible to build an xcp-ng test Environment im vsphere. We are currently using vsphere and i want to evaluate xcp-ng for us.
I have never tried nested XCP-ng inside of VMWare.
What about containers in XCP-NG?
xen-orchestra.com/blog/xenserver-xen-orchestra-and-docker/
Lawrence Systems / PC Pickup I was thinking about LXC or LXD and not the docker
@@Mr_nah Yet they only do docker. There's probably a lack of demand for both - but you could install a VM that hosts other container systems.
@@Nagilum3 This. Use containers inside VMs, so at least you are properly isolated from the rest of the host. It's working very well.
What is the procedure to migrate VM from xcp-ng to vmware 7.0.
Cloning
can i run xcp-ing like an application on my windows pc like vmware? or do i have to install it on another computer like a server and remote into that server?
no, XCP-ng is a type-1 hypervisor designed to be on a dedicated system.
do you think you can run this on a threadripper or a 3950x?
Sure
I love InvoiceNinja
Couldn't you just install a scheduler and set it to run "apt get update ! apt get upgrade" every 2 hours?
That will break stuff
the company that incorporates kubernetes first will be the hypervisor that remains.
That is not true.
@@LAWRENCESYSTEMS It would be a very important feature for many to automatically spin up vms based on k8s but i admit my comment was mostly late night hyperbole :)
PLEASE REPLY
Q. If i will create a acronis or norton ghost image of whole server and if server crash due to hardware issue, will restoring gives any issue due to hardware changes.
In other word how to backup XCP-NG server and restore even if there is any hardware change.
There's no hardware change. That's the key point of VMs: it's an abstraction between your hardware and operating systems. Just restore the VM anywhere on any other XCP-ng host, it works. Period.
@@olivierlambert4101 hello..... it's about restoring XCP-NG from acronis or norton ghost image.
@@abhikumar1259 Don't do that, it's not the way it works. There's no need to backup your hypervisor itself. Backup the VMs, if your hardware is destroyed, reinstall XCP-ng on a fresh machine, and import your VM: it just works.
@@olivierlambert4101 So what about settings and stuff, is there a way to export and reimport those in order to get a new installation back on track asap?
@@Noodles.FreeUkraine There's not a lot of settings. XCP-ng is pretty turnkey, so even if you have something to do from scratch, it's really trivial. In theory you can backup host metadata, but in 90% of the cases, it's far easier to just reinstall, import VMs and that's it.
for me the XCP problem is, no support HBA. I have 3 storages, and i'm using XenServer 7.6, and I can't migrate to XCP because this!!!
@lawrence we recently deployed on 5 noides and run around 100 VM's, but i have never found a good backup solution that can do incremental backup, i do not want to use delta backup since it has to keep a snapshot all the time of the VMs.
Have ya'll looked at oVirt?
oVirt is the best of all hypervisors, but I use Proxmox straight to the point as hypervisor
@@ramikilany9279 I'm using oVirt as we speak and it's pretty awesome, just the lack of training videos on it kind of bits.
Kvm
I was going to ask this to, if you look at features, ovirt is right there at the top, on top of that supported by redhat cant be bad right :-)
Proxmox the best😁
Ok guys, I think this is the right place to ask about this. Do you think it is possible to build a Netflix cache in my home?
no
I thinks zen is falling behind. With VMware now supporting native containers and kvm has for a while this is going to be a test. I really hope xcp does well though.
kubernetes being all the rage in the enterprise these days. Don’t get me wrong it’s a really good product but I had to switch to esxi so I can run GNS3 eve-NG
Don't be tempted to repeat what you heard ;) There's the "public trend" (Kubernetes) and there's reality. First, Xen (and not "zen") is not falling behind. Quick example: AWS just hired a LOT of Xen developers recently and contributed a lot to the recent release of Xen. It's still the vast majority of their Cloud running on it (80%+) and this will continue. Regarding k8s, in XOA you can deploy a turnkey k8s cluster in few clicks, running on top of VMs, it works very well and you get a good isolation.
I would love to start using XCP-NG but there is no way I can make it work on a virtual environment with hyper-v (nested virtualization). I am not new to virtualization by any means, also I already checked instructions on how to make it work but had no luck so far. Without testing I cannot go further, unfortunately.
Its type 1 hypervisor. You have to put it on bare metal.
There is one big difference between VMware and XCP-ng not mentioned in this video. One feature VMware has and XCP-ng does not, and that is far more better High Availability. VMware keeps a shadow VM in one other host's RAM, and if the host fails the VM fail over is seamless and without reboot, but on XCP-ng the VM reboots on other host, and you get 1-2 minute server downtime with possible issues do to VM force restart.
I'm evaluating XCP-NG now, so far I like some of the features, but there are others that are lacking. We currently have a couple of older HP Proliant DL380 G5 and G6 servers that are still running a older version of VMWare ESXi with basic licenses (just enough to let us use ghettovcb to do backups), but have mostly moved to ProxMox for our virtualization needs on newer Dell servers. So far the main gotcha is the fact that you can not directly upload iso image files into a iso storage disk using the Xen Orchestra web interface. Have you came up with any fixes for this, I don't want to have to rely on scp or having to ssh into the host and manually run a wget command to download a iso image. Also is it possible to register the Open Source Xen Orchestra so I can use the hub or XOSan features or does that require paying for a license and using the full Xen Orchestra instead of the Open Source version? I'm really not a fan of the Ceph file storage system that a colleague is wanting to use for our next proxmox cluster so I want to explore other options. I also like the idea of the continuous replication backup method as that is very similar to using veeam to maintain a DR machine that can be powered on to replace the current machine if something goes wrong with the original.
Vmware was amazing, so was coal. Switch to XCP-NG !
Honestly we have what ...... over 350 VMs over 2 sites on 2 VMWare clusters. VMWare is fantastic, not going to lie. But if it was up to me , i would switch it all to XC-PNG , why should we pay 5 figures for a backup solution when its built into xen ?
Not good for company because we have do not have employee who know this . This is for micro companies
You keep saying red-hot gives away software...." I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means"
I like how they say Xen Orchestra is totally for free and first thing they want is your email to download it. Second step and they are forcing me register with their account and link the XOE installation with their account. The presenter here says how Citrix is trying to lock the advance features to sell substitution, but this company is doing exactly the same in different way. Basically this company is no different from Citrix. I will rather install KVM because I don't have to register with anyone and will not have anyone snooping on what I run.
You don't have to register if you build it all from source or use the command line to download. Registering for for the trial mode on the self updating version with the extra features. czcams.com/video/bq1iKO-0jWs/video.html
16:27 "GRE encrypted tunnels" GRE doesn't do encryption lol. fail.
Correct, GRE does not itself handle the encryption so what I should have said was uses GRE and XCP-NG encrypts traffic sent over GRE.
It's actually terrifying how crap VMware's backup solutions are. I'm a VMware novice, but it drives me nuts.
I am still trying to test xcp-ng, but I can't make it work as a vm, tried with Hyper-V and it doesn't boot (already enabled the cpu extensions). Any idea how to create a virtual lab to try this out? Thanks