Bernie's policies make sense if you're thinking emotionally and with your heart. It sounds morally correct. Schiff's make logical sense when you think about it systematically
(1) Schiff loves to talk. He's always like this; but also, (2) I think there was a delay in the call. Rogan was getting the feed probably 1-2 seconds late.
Brion Stronghold LMAO I think he’s just a bit ignorant when it comes to this. he said he was voting for Bernie because he seemed like the most genuine. whatever that means
I hate that Joe is moving to Texas... So many Californians are moving to Texas. So aggravating, how someone would vote for the same thing they are running away from.
@@theupscriber65 If you break the law, no shit you're going to get arrested. Now the left is complaining because they don't care about having a civilized society.
@@Rommie26 now do it to every other medicine Americans are overcharged through. Don't come back with muh 'americans subsidise the R&D', it's been disproven so many times
Jody Pelupessy the reason one would be pumping insulin is due to becoming insulin resistant. One becomes insulin resistant from poor eating habits. We as Americans need to adopt a new way of eating such as a fasting focused lifestyle that reverses insulin resistance. Sorry but the insulin argument is a poor one. We need to be accountable for our own health and stop asking the gov’t for a temporary fix to a very serious issue which is obesity, which leads to every other health problem a person has. Don’t even get me started on Big Pharma.
@@84jamesp subversion propaganda...you worried about pennies vs the $5 trillion dollars in corporate socialism we just gave out to companies that did not need it who pocketed our taxpayer dollars...stop watching CZcams videos of rich guys lying to you, and go study.
Seriously considering extracting that little bit to send to more than a few friends. I have many young friends who think they're left-leaning because of very similar tendencies, but they lack the degree of self-reflection and experience to recognize that this doesn't mean they have to unilaterally agree with one side's policies and their impact on society. I think this statement here leads to a considerably more open mind, and would pull anyone back from wholehearted conviction in either direction on the political spectrum.
@@Dulc3B00kbyBrant0n either it's free or it's not... And it's not. You should have said "saying the US isn't a free market is just as dumb as calling the US a socialist country". That would've actually made sense.
LowKey Liberty it’s used and used to be great, you used to able to Harvard for 1000 dollars a years, even with inflation it can’t be more than 10k for what used to be one of the greatest in the world
Chuck pretty insane that people like you can vote for higher taxes on people you don’t know when you also don’t know the other taxes that exist You are the reason the system fails
Benjamin Henderson you should do research on his dad before you shoot your mouth off. That man was a hero. And it’s not tax dodging when the law is no cap gains tax in PR.
So torn. I’m 75% in agreement but the other 25% of the nuances are where the trouble is. This is the trouble with over simplifying a very complex topic.
@Kristian Pedersen Government is always bad in comparison to private business because Coca Cola isn't going to beat down your door and haul you off to jail if you don't pay them. The huge underlying factor is the dignity of choice on what to do with your spending dollar. Taxation robs citizens of that dignity and takes away their freedom of choice on were to allocate their money. TAXATION IS THEFT.
@@marcmerchant135 dude go look at most of Asia and Africa. If you think private companies will not if they had all the freedom of the world, take advantage of humans to make their products faster, cheaper, and more efficient. Your lost and haven't learnt from history. In no time you would have slavery so you can buy your new iphone 300 cheaper. Asong as it's not you in that factory yea go full free market.
Having had regular jobs and been self employed for a decade, I couldn't agree any more than this guy. Wow. He's literally said everything I've ever wanted to say and more. But, I'll add.... Charities, at least in the UK, are mostly fraudulent pieces of shit. 90% on 'directors' driving Porsches and 10% on homeless etc.
@@benjaminhenderson7059 He definitely is an austrian orthodixist but he's also more correct on the overall macroeconomic questions than he is incorrect.
Income tax here is indeed around 32-33% for most, with a few percentage units higher for high earners. However, we do pay more taxes than that too. We have a tax called ”arbetsgivaravgift” that’s payed by the employer for having an employee, which is quite high too (gonna double check the number but I think it’s like 20-30% of the salary too). So if you earn say 20 000 crowns (around 2000 euros) you’ll get around 13000 after taxes, but your employer has to pay around 25-30 000 to have you employed with your salary plus the arbetsgivaravgift. Furthermore, we have taxes on goods that’s usually around 12% and always included in the price (some products the government likes, like books, only have a tax of 6%). So... we pay a lot more than 32% in actual taxes. But sure, we get a lot for it health care wise etc
I’ve had conversations with college aged children who truly want socialism. I’ve pointed out that Marx left one very important thing out of his nightmare of socialism. And the college children are shocked when I say that Marx forgot about human nature. They argue about about how “we would do it right this time” I point out that it’s not them I’m truly concerned with, it’s the graft, and abuse, and eliteism that goes hand in hand with any governmental structure. That normal corruption of all government systems by human beings is not going away, but in a society governed by socialism the corruption levels grow faster than the government can keep up with. Humans cause this corruption.
Here’s a great idea, let’s get rid of corrupt capitalism, that at least gives everyone a shot and replace it with corrupt socialism that would degrade into communism and give everybody nothing.
You forget that capitalism is the one that forgets human nature. In capitalism too much power is given to certain individuals and more times than not (in fact the overwheliming majority of the time) given to them democratically. In socialism you couldnt have that problem because no one individual is given more power than the next unless democratically chosen.
Daniel Hyman how do you think any decisions would be made in a social list society, by national vote!?! Someone has to be put in a leadership position. And because of human beings habit of favoritism and nepotism caused by.... HUMAN NATURE! Socialism and communism are horrible forms of government. Period. You have to have a Government to guide and direct the overall system or socialism fails. Get it!?! Yes unchecked capitalism is bad. In the western world we put several layers of checks and balances on our capitalism. We regulate our capitalism, sometimes more than we should sometimes less than we should. It’s not perfect. But Capitalism has lifted more human beings out of poverty than any other form of economic system,,,, ever in human existence. Period. You are one of these soybean sheep aren’t you? Can’t figure out that hard work and a direction in life will serve you better that hiding behind a computer keyboard in your moms basement bitching because you don’t have anything. Do yourself a favor get up early in the morning, find a job that makes as much money as possible. Then find a way to work towards getting a skill set that pays you more money and work towards that skill set. I’m a Merchant Marine. I started out as a lowly deck hand making 100$ a day. 5 years later I am making 750$ a day as an engineer on a ship. No college debt. I only work 6 months a year. A month on a month off. Because that’s what I worked towards. A friend of mine started out as a plumbers assistant 10 years ago, he now has 3 trucks 10 people working for him at his own plumbing company. My uncle started at age 19 framing houses and now he owns a framing company, with 8 employees. No college is needed to live your dreams. You do however need to get up off your ass and decide on what you want and then go out and figure out how to get it.
@@ianstradian Well decisions i think would be made by the communes similar to local governments but run by a sortition system. Of lottery chosen individuals to make some sort of parliment. This is just in socialism not communism. Because as im sure you know communism has no government and is a form of anarchy. Within the workplace everything is run democratically. Rather than the capitalists making the decisions the workers will. If the workers feel that theyre not competent enough to run the business on their own they can just vote for their boss and keep their boss. Not hard. Poverty is an interesting one because Im not saying capitalism is all bad it has a purpose at producing goods mire efficiently but its overstayed its welcome. The soviet union and China industrialized and lowered poverty at way faster rates than america or Britain ever has. So to say our form of western capitalism is the best at reducing poverty is factually wrong. Im glad you work hard but not everyone has an opportunity at least an equal opportunity. Socialism just wants democracy and equal opportunity with it.
Daniel Hyman how do you think the Soviet Union industrialized faster than Europe? The Bolshevik Revolution was almost 100 years after the industrial revolution in Europe? And yes if you can learn from already industrialized nations and buy the technology to get your country industrialized you can industrialize at a lighting rate. Japan was a hermit country until they began to modernize and industrialize, they went from walking to steam engines on rail roads in less than 30 years.... because they bought the technology,,, they did not have to develop it. Oh... And let’s say that you are a worker in a factory in your society of socialism, and you are getting paid a wage. Do you think that the person who runs the facility should get paid more? If so... that’s a capital idea. How about the family doctor, does the doctor get paid more than the ditch digger? Because in a society that is truly socialist both should be equal, only they are not equal, because the ditch digger will suffer injuries and have to retire at 50 with a job span of 30 to 35 years, while the doctor can be a doctor into his 80’s with a job span of 55 years. Even though both get paid the same wage, the doctor gets paid more. Then there is the ability for the doctor to make money on the side illegally, because you know “human nature “ while the ditch digger does not have that ability. As far as China and Russia lowering poverty, that is a lie. China lowered the level of income and wealth at the upper end of society, by nationalization of industry and wealth appropriation ( they stole the wealth from the rich). So everyone was on the same level, as poor as the next person. Russia threw a third of the population of the planet into death camps and killed off entire generations in certain areas of their control, and because a dead person can’t flip a burger the income of the population that was under Soviet rule all ended up on the same level... mostly poor, standing in bread lines. Bread lines that would not be there if capitalism was, supply and demand and all that stuff. I’m tired of debunking your infantile attempt to sway my convictions. Go back to mooching off your mom. And keep believing the BS your buddies keep sending you via email links. I’ll be riding my Harley or Driving my Truck, and having a relationship with a real female person. Unlike some people who cannot get out of their moms basement. Have a nice life. I’m out. I’ve had enough of Idiots for a long while.
real rich people always in debt. you silly Sweden...their money always investment. investment. investment. investment. borrow from banks to investment. you can't find a dime in their pocket.
You could give everyone $50,000,000 and most of the poor would end up poor again. Some people suck with money and some people simply don't value being wealthy.
Think about, when the government prices teens out of valuable experience in the job market, gives loans for college they will never Pay back for degree they will never use, what do you expect will happen
The "greed is beneficial for everyone" point is only semi-true. This incentive is not good products, but appearance of good products, and over time corporations found the way to cheat this incentive. People are irrational, and even when they are not - the dopamine abuse systems gone a long way and now are very difficult to resist.
There's countless examples of corporations doing things that are terrible. If the government didn't regulate things minimum wage wouldn't exist, child labor, and slavery would still be used in this country. Johnson and Johnson sold talcum powder KNOWING people would get cancer from it, but did it anyways. I love how he talks about the 50s like it was all hunky dory and ignores things like how cigarettes were advertised as healthy.
@frostfire65 Eh, not quite stupidity, more like hacked social psychology. You could say that's exploiting a type of stupidity but to me thats exploiting human nature. Semantics, I know. Hear me out, if human nature is stupid, then humans should never label it as such unleas that humans is also claiming to be superhuman. Maybe to call our human fallacies stupid is to imply that we think we're an exception. Maybe that, in of itself, is another fallacy. Maybe that's also stupid. In less roundabout words: maybe it takes a smart person to admit they're stupid like everyone else.
@@twistednipzz Regulating minimum wage has been a disaster in every country its used in fyi, so dont assume government regulation of corporations is always good.
@@Scrotom No. Some people are smarter than others. and some people are dumber than others. Those people far dumber than the majority are considered stupid. Maybe a smart person will say that they are not that much smarter than the majority, but they are still smarter. Therefore not stupid.
@@Durram258 that is why unions are important, because neither the government OR corporations are looking out for the average Joe, but with their collective bargaining they can actually get their demands met or they get met with violence, which there is ALSO countless examples of.
What type of camera equipment and software do you need to make this kind of podcast? In regards to the video "conferencing". My friend lives overseas and I want to record my conversations with him like this, audio and video. What do I need to get started. Any help will be greatly appreciated!
@@damondiamantes8750 how does he understand economics? he wants guys like Bezos to get even more money and have us deal with unfettered capitalism. He also said at least 20 verifiable lies in this clip alone.
@@liamrmorgans921there were none they are completely ignorant about economics and live in their mother's basement. Never owned a home or worked a full time job
problem is not to be poor but miserable. not everybody wants a luxury life. thats why so many people form 3rd world countries give up on their vocation to clean toilets seats in america. Like you studied 5 years to become a dentist and is your dream job but if you go to a more capitalist coutry your life will be better even if you are considered poor in that country. thats why so many people from south and central america wants to enter the us to clean pools and walk dogs.
Not everyone can be the biggest succes, but you can raise the average level of wealth and succes. Covering basic things like affordable housing, education and healthcare won’t make kings out of everyone, but it will certainly raise the average wealth level.
In true free market capitalism poverty is relative. Even in the shit system with the high taxes today the amount of free market we do have has people who work with living standards higher than royalty 150 years ago. Rising tide lifts all boats.
this is completely misguided, because this implies that corporations actually pay the tax rate that is placed on them. all this will do is get them to pay closer to what is expected of them.
And I agree with this but that realization is why you don't just raise the numbers in a broken system. We need a complete overhaul of tax code and a closing of loopholes these corporations use. Let's enforce what we already have in the meantime and stop allowing it to be games while we fashion a new tax code
How about we stop charging 50% corporate tax, when they stop asking for bailout every other year and giving their top executives hundreds of millions in bonus.
Maybe if we truly regulate Wall Street, the domino effect will occur less often. Now in this pandemic, the care act created far more income inequality between corporations and small businesses. Also Wall Street r conducting more corrupt actions than 2008, where will end up in another depression.
They wouldn't need a bailout if they didn't have ridiculous government regulations dictating most of their actions. This reminds me of the housing crisis. Gov: "we will force banks to give out risky loans, and if they do not comply theyre finished. Because compassion or the poor or whatever. Banks: "ok i guess we will comply, but the reason we're not giving these loans is because people won't pay them back." Then they complied. Then people didn't pay their mortgages back. Then it all went to shit. And the barely conscious morons of this country come to the conclusion that the banks are the problem. Despite the fact that mortgage loans were the safest loans in history before gov involvement. But I guess facts don't really matter to people.
It’s basically impossible to be rich in Sweden. We don’t have an inheritance tax because the “rich” (the 1% starts at and mainly consists of those earning $110k a year) never have a chance to hand down any wealth. Calculated just for fun: In order to pay you 110k, your employer must devote 145k to your salary, and of the 110k you get, you pay an additional 44k. You keep only 66k a year if your company throws 145k at you.
Thats the cold reality. When your country embraces economically impossible plans, it has consequences. All the medical care, refugee care, and massive bureaucracy all cost a lot of money and that money has to come from somewhere. Even though Sweden has been dialing these programs back, generations of swedes are gonna have to foot the bill.
@@STL-sl7zv What about when your economy creates impossible to fix problems like climate change? Should we all just hold hands and walk into the apolocypse bc we were too stubborn to create a better system?
Charities that are prepared to spend more can make more. Same as any enterprise. Is it more moral to put every cent of income into the cause, or spend a big chunk of what you collect in order to be able to collect a lot more money and do more for the cause? There is no easy answer. Kind of depends on the cause as well.
It is true that Sweden has reduced its government spending pretty much every year since 1993. It's still higher in total than the US though, which is what people like Bernie are alluding to.
This guy had talking points on command. It was so painful to listen.
Před 3 lety
So you guys are the wealthy guys who are willing to give up 50 percent of your income then? I highly doubt it, why is the disparity so different between the top and the bottom over there then? Is it because they have about the same amount of people as new york? That's one reason, is it because almost everyone contributes there? That's another reason. Is it because they dont export all of their jobs? There is another reason. Is it because they dont have mass immigration like here with millions of illegal immigrants? There is so much more to what you guys are saying then your "on command talking points" you are doing the same thing and leaving tons of info out too and none of us know the complete complexity of this topic as it relates to Sweden.
@ there's many reasons why there's a major difference in wealth disparity between both countries but that's not the point. The point is that tax rates and brackets should be determined within the context of the country's economy. If you have such a discrepancy between the highest and lowest income earners, than the moral and economically feasible thing to do would be to redistribute some of that wealth.
Sweden has never adopted socialism. What is this man talking about? Having a welfare programme is not adopting socialism. You pay taxes for the millitary. Do you consider paying tax for the millitary a socialist ideal? Americans just understand that contribution based taxes do not equate to socialism.
Very true... I don't know what none sense this expert guy is trying to sell us after friedman Melton economic ideas drove us to this Epic eniquality WE are living though.
This guy trusts corporations and the rich waaaaay too much. He acts like they actually pay the taxes they’re expected to pay and act like they’d want to give money away instead of keeping it for themselves
Libertarians capitalists are some of the most naive people in the world. Libertarian Socialism for the win, if any of you havent heard of worker coops you should check them out. They're a perfect example of Socialism working in the U.S.
His point is more that businesses will pay a price for being wrong, whereas politicians and public intellectuals almost never pay any price at all. If your engineering company has some bold new idea for an artistic looking building and that building collapses and kills the people inside then youre ruined. If a politician or intellectual has some wonderful idea for reorganizing the world and it ends in disaster theyre more often than not reelected or given academic tenure.
@Brion Stronghold Fuck the government the workers would reclaim their liberty by seizing the means of production on their own. Libertarian Capitalism is the oxymoron. Where's your liberty when all of the fruit of your labor goes to one small group of people ontop who "own" the means of production currently. You just want a different authority to submit to.
@@STL-sl7zv What about all of the people who create shit that kills people but get away w it bc they're already rich enough to absorb the damage? Shouldn't we have a prison system that punishes the rich and politicians equally?
Capitalism works when the whole game isn’t keeping all your money. However our current state where all the rich people hord the wealth and won’t take chances right or wrong isn’t working for the majority of the country.
Gary Paskvić that’s not true. They already tried your low taxation libertarian Experiment in Chile in the 80s. It sent many people into poverty and made the rich far far richer. They don’t reinvest because most of the rich people got it from inheritance so they don’t even know how to deal with business. 80% of wealth is inherited. For the 20% - 30% who do start a business they will invest but they will invest anyway because they know how to survive regardless of the circumstances.
Gary Paskvić I live in LA. Trust fund kids are everywhere and they usually are dumb because they never had to figure out how to survive. They also have very little empathy for other humans because they were pampered all their lives. That money should be taken away by the government and invested in more worthwhile things than trust fund kids luxuries.
@@rorobobo8401 The vast majority of people who have a lot of money made it themselves, according to a new report. The market research firm Wealth-X analyzed the state of the world’s ultra-wealthy population - or those with a net worth of $30 million or more. The report, which is based on 2018 data, “showed muted growth” in the number of ultra-wealthy people that year, “rising by 0.8% to 265,490 individuals,” says Wealth-X. Of those folks, 67.7% were self-made, while 23.7% had a combination of inherited and self-created wealth. Only 8.5% of global high-net-worth individuals were categorized as having completely inherited their wealth.
@Professor Shibe I'm gonna have to agree with Tommy Gunn - socialism means workers seizing the means of production by a basic definition not social programs. It is debatable whether the workers owning the means of production alone is socialism, but welfare states such as the Nordic model of economy are not socialist.
@@alistairstanbridge7461 well this tommy gunn is a hipocryte. if it is not socialism which technically he might be right, it is for sure not capitalism. He just fails to aknowledge any intermediate possibility, specially when socialists are the ones who always claim for them. It is like the communism never existed cliche, technically its right but then capitalism doesnt either.
@@patriciomalbran140 this is capitalism - the power corporations have over the government forces it to bail them out and the amount of lobbying corporations,especially powerful insurance companies, does is insane. An increase in government owned and subsidised nstitutions does not equal socialism, more like social democracy with clear hierarchical structure similar to that of capitalist companies. Also, in the past, with less regulations on capital, workers worked 7 days a week all day for slave wages, and many companies had private armies to rival the government's. The monopoly on violence the government has now prevents the ultimate oppression of workers by corporations.
@@alistairstanbridge7461 seems like you dont understand capitalism mate and you have no idea of economic history either. also following that line I could say communism was tried and every time it ended up in a dictatorship, mass poverty and genocide and that keynesianism is modern day comunism.
I understand the point you are making and in some cases that is true. But people always want more than what they have, so they invest those resources into other things so they can get richer. When people invest, they are giving more people jobs and those people also get richer. Take amazon for example, it’s a trillion dollar company, but Jeff Bezos is only worth $200 billion, that means he made other people $800 billion.
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@@eskanda3434 Forcing equity is the main reason they call such collectivist ideologies "utopian". Human uniqueness dictates that outcomes will never be truly equal. So they are attempting an impossible task from the get-go. But this is very convenient for those that are pulling the strings for the expansion of governmental power. The pursuit of equity never ends, so the government essentially keeps making any changes it wants, citing the unachievable goal as the reasoning. All under the guise of morality. And the useful idiots proudly fall in line.
Yes, Joe this nation for two hundred years lived like he is saying because it lived by Christian values. While all were not Christians the culture was largely influenced by it and that is how we got hospitals, schools, etc.. but now the government is god and we are feeling the effects. I am not saying you have to be a Christian to have these benefits but anyone who is intellectually honest should be able to see.
This “economist” skipped a lot of how racism has historically been intertwined with American capitalism. Private sector and govt have both fucked over certain groups of people. Proponents of capitalism always leave out how we ended up with things like federal minimum wage (which has never been indexed to inflation and hasn’t gone up in over a decade) .
@@benjaminhenderson7059 He had Bernie Sanders on, who is at best a socialist at worse an actual Commie. In reality he is a millionaire because of Capitalism. So he is a hypocrite for certain.
@@kesh4171 "commie" Just goes to show you have no clue what you're talking about. Keep getting propaganda from conservative multi-millionaires who feed you establishment talking points. If you're working class and you're saying this shit, you're an idiot that's brainwashed by corporate mouthpieces.
there is no way in hell you can rely on donations man. "bob" will also not donate and trust me there will be lots of "bobs". i saw that sneaky trick there too he tried to connect donation to fire departments.
This was a really good discussion between Joe and Peter. I’ve got two points that I would have discussed more with Joe. First at 2:32, when Joe say “…they connect socialism to empathy to kindness, socialism to people who are less greedy, socialism to people more interested in a community”, that Joe is correct that socialist say those things; but socialism isn’t those things. Empathy and kindness are not forcibly taking from others to give a little of the taken stuff to others, socialism is even more materialistic, i.e. greedy, then the prototypical capitalist because all they see and want is material things that other have. Capitalism lets individuals show empathy and kindness through acts of charity and by helping others, I can’t remember who said it but it is only in capitalism that a people can make money by helping others. My second point is at the 10:15 point in the video. Joe says “what you’re saying is there’s an opportunity to be compassionate without like the demand for you being compassionate by the federal government.” If someone or something is forcing you to be compassionate, then you are not acting compassionately. No one can be compelled to be compassionate, the government is cloaking it forcibly taking of one person’s property to pretend to help someone else as compassion. To be forced to be compassionate can make people callous and turn people against a perceived out group.
I am a believer in the free market system, but also a believer in telling the truth. While many of Peter's points are correct, they don't have much context. For example, even though US corporate tax rates are high, the accounting rules are also much more pro business than other countries, and why many corporations (like Amazon), pay next to nothing. If we can have a truly honest conversation of the benefits of free market economy, and address the concerns of those who want more of a social democracy, I believe most of the latter would be convinced. Using the type of language like theft and coercion is bombastic and will not bridge that gap Joe is referring to. Like is it still theft of dollars to fund the military? Of course not. Even die hard capitalists want to have some wealth transfer to incentivize people to have children, as an example. A single person could say that is theft to support a family, which in reality, a family uses more of the government services and should be taxed higher. So, I wish Joe would actually find another, less biased person to get his economics knowledge.
The only reason it looks like Joe is interrupting him is because the guy is ranting without stopping. The guy has one big flaw in his explanation. He says people shouldn't see private business as evil or government as angels, yet he is advocating for the opposite, which I don't believe in either. A lot of businesses don't care about people and communities at all. Also, people are horrible with responsibility and money for example. There is a reason people with lower incomes buy more lottery tickets. Socialist programs can prevent these people from landing under a bridge after one medical bill. A lot of people aren't able to 'take care of their shit'. To just tell those people to make better decisions is not going to help in the end.
How do you end up homeless from private medical debt? The idea is not true, you can pay a bona fide monthly payment of nominal amount, say 5 dollars in perpetuity. Anyone signing agreements for garnishments are ill informed.
@Akmal Ahmad Widely spread common use design isn't socialism, you dummy. Socialism is State-owned means of production; no private property, that's it. Meaning that you don't own yourself nor anything that should and could be yours.
@@Xpistos510 What's moral is possible, if it isn't, it's definetely not moral. And theft is never moral; you cannot do good by bad means, it has to be consistent. And the reason those countries fare well is not because it's social programs (which don't work as intended, btw, and never will) it's thanks to their pro free-market stance.
I live in a poor and rural county in Oregon. We have no public county fire department. We do have two private fire departments. I pay about $600/year to be a member of one of them. If I have a fire, they come and will fight it. If I choose not to pay, I and my neighbors will fight it ourselves. I will do the same for my neighbors. It works here. Works for me.
Black JetBoat A stupid anecdote, if you're so against socialism then how about you start advocating for the abolishment of the military, schools and hospitals, let's see how that works out for the country. Libertarian dipshits like this Peter guy are completely delusional and their fantasies will never have any popular support.
A right-libertarian would have no issue with the voluntary formation of unions which help to bid up the price of labour for a specific job. It's good that individuals who dont have great negotiating skills have someone working on their behalf to get the best deal. The problem is when the government comes in and sets an arbitrary minimum (which is not even remotely tied to a "liveable wage") on what a person can be paid. All it does is disrupt the market and prevents employees from earning what they're worth
@Swoozle SNAP is subsidizing companies that don't pay their workers a living wage. The other side of it is that a lot of jobs shouldn't actually exist. Amazon is proof that brick and mortar, and the workers inside, are not needed. Amazon is the vending machine of stuff, and it has been wildly successful
I would love someone to point out one of the biggest flaws of capitalism to Peter. The court case of Ford vs. Dodge. When the Dodge brothers who were shareholders of the Ford Motor Company sued them because Ford wanted to pay more money to their workers, well above market rate, which benefited the workers but not the shareholders. The court ruled the shareholders come first. The only way a major corporation can do the right thing is if it translates into more dollars for the shareholders, such as good p.r. that drives more people to buy their product. Paying the employees the bare minimum is okay if it raises the stock price for shareholders. Even if the employees could use the money more than the shareholders. To me, that is a huge flaw and gets in the way of Peter's message that corporate bosses being greedy benefits the employees. If the CEO of a major corporation decided to take profits that were going to go to expansion and acquisition and instead use it to raise all low level employees' salaries out of kindness to the employees, the shareholders would go "hey that money could've been used to make us more money, we're suing you."
1) The increased capital resulting from reinvestment into the company using the increased profits would benefit all future consumers, and visa versa, increasing the wage of the workers costs all future consumers. 2) (Democratic) Socialists and/or Liberals don't have a solution to this problem. If the goal was to increase the net benefit for all (the common good) then the workers would not be 'protected', because those protections come at the cost of everyone else. What happens in democracies usually, is that there are politicians representing the interests of the shareholders of the large players in the industry, and politicians representing the interests of the workers (unions), and since the general populous doesn't have enough of a stake for their interests to be represented, so they don't get representation (search 'Public Choice Theory' on CZcams), so the politicians 'protecting the workers' pass laws forcing companies to pay them more or give them other such benefits, then the politicians representing the shareholders introduce regulations on the industry as a whole, making it harder for competitors to enter the market and compensating for the decreased leverage over the workers. Rinse and repeat for decades, until there are a ludicrous amount of regulations on everything and everyone loses except the senior members of unions and the shareholders that influence the politicians. 3) There are other ways of structuring companies to give the workers more power, co-ops are an obvious example, the problem with such business structures is that if the Ford Motor Company was structured so that workers had more influence than the shareholders, then it's unlikely that the shareholders would have invested in the first place, making it impossible for the company to grow to such scale. It's a trade off that gets decided when the company is founded, and those types of companies (large scale manufacturing) are exactly the type where if you've figured out the optimum way to operate before your competitors, then the sections of the company can get duplicated infinitely until you win. They don't lend themselves to co-op style structures because most of the unique irreplaceable work is done at the top, making it (comparatively) very risky to start such a company when you don't have the ability to force your workers to adopt the optimum operating procedure (when it involves them being fired or accepting otherwise undesirable conditions), because otherwise your competitors could scale faster and react faster to changes in the market. I will grant you that this is an interesting case and that libertarians are often guilty of acting like it's more obvious than it is, and can come across pretty condescending. Also, there is a strong case against intellectual property existing in the first place, which would allow someone to (though it would be very costly,) abandon their company, take the workers with them and start again without being sued for patent infringement. Here is a video on the subject if you're interested czcams.com/video/cWShFz4d2RY/video.html.
Tim, Peter has talked about this several times over the years during his old radio program. Schiff is great, because he knows so much about economics, history, money, and always explains it so everyone can understand. You should email him and have him explain your question in detail on one of his shows.
I'm gonna politely disagree. That takes a lot of faith in people for starters. Schiff, like most conservatives, was harkening back to the late 40s and 50s as the greatest period of time for American businesses and workers. What's weird about that is the fact that tax rates were the highest they have ever been in our nation's history during that era. I recognize there are problems with waste in our social safety net, but Schiff isn't preaching "free market capitalism" for anyone's benefit but his own.
m t what happened in the 40s and 50s? Ww2 leveled half of Europe. America was the only first world country that wasn’t destroyed. So we had no competition
Marcus J so you're saying we had the *ability to tax corporations more because industries couldn't just move their operations to other places like China for example?
The argument is that the without the government intervention in the economy you wouldn’t have had to rely on the government in the first place. Things like the efficiency from a free market and only essential taxes would have allowed you to have savings or at least more control over your income
When I was having troubles getting by, I was FORCED to help you, because government threatened to throw me in a locked jail cell for 5 years if I didn't. My family was forced to be a lower priority than a stranger. "Help" is given VOLUNTARILY, otherwise it's not really 'help' at all, but just extortion.
@D2 E2 Obviously Sweden is a capitalist country with a massive economic safety net, the question really is which economic policies from any successful capitalist country ( with an economic safety net of a certain form ) that can help the US economy the most, on one side you got places like Sweden and Denmark which are capitalist countries with a massive economic safety net ( aka a safety net that extends to the majority of decisions if not all citizens ) which would result in higher taxation, Then on the other side you got places like Hong Kong and Singapore which are capitalist countries with a low economic safety net ( aka a safety net that extends to only people in poverty, senior citizens, and people with major disabilities ) which would result in lower taxation.
With regards to what Schiff says about Sweden, I sent this to a friend of mine that lives in Sweden, he’s British and this is what he said after I asked of what Schiff says is true about Sweden here: “Hahaha, what a load of tripe. There is massive tax on house owning and selling for example. Everything is taxed. Sweden has taxed highly since the 30s. It was a shithole before that, and a lot of people were drunk. It rebuilt the country on socialism, it's gone back a bit in the last 10 years but if you own a business, you are taxed highly, if you earn anything, taxed hightly. It all goes into the big pot and is shared out again. Rich people leave because of the high taxes. He's talking shit because there are no poor people in Sweden, to speak of, and it's not a good look for those who want to demonise socialism.”
Who in their right mind would want that? If I’m a business owners. I’m taking all the liability for this business. I’m paying the wages, insurances, rent, overhead ect... If I’m doing all this why should I be punished with super high taxes? All the while my profits(taxes) go to some asshole who didn’t have the ingenuity or guts to do what I’m doing? That’s a bad deal for anyone who’s a business owner.
@@ledflaplin2001 you need capital and labour to produce dividends in business without capital or labour you can not make a dividend. This would make them mutual, and the dividend should be shared mutually.
That's such a bullshit argument, when was Venezuela a great place to live? Never, not before socialism, not during and not after. People who don't want socialized health care have no problem pouring 700bn+ into the war machine.
@@Dennis-gr8ex they had great natural resources and a promising future before socialism. People in Venezula at least had food to eat before socialism and there was a growing middle class. Stop being a commie.
@@henryoculus389 I'm not a socialist, it's just that dumb reasoning doesn't bring anything. Look at Russia, they used to be socialist now they're capitalists, the place is still a shithole.
Funny how this guy is anti-socialism and claims to be a Libertarian, yet his actions are all Marxist and his talking points he espouse are Libertarian. The irony is not lost on me. King of the grifters
Joe if you think people are terrible, then what makes you think people in government are more virtuous than people that work for companies that have to earn your money?
"The money taken away from me in taxes I wudve invested to help grow the economy or given to charity." Wow that sounds great Peter. Sell us more on trickle down economics.
It's not much different from assuming government employees will spend the tax money the way they're supposed to. Both angles assume the best result of human character, which is why both end up with major holes and abuse of money accumulation.
At least if we have more choice about how we spend our money, then we have power to direct things. But we also must accept the responsibility. When we can't collectively understand that we must choose economy and charity often enough to support it, then the argument for unavoidable taxation (like income and sales taxes) becomes inevitable. Still, ideally, we should have the choice of where we spend the money we earn. Or ELSE, we need to be able to hold government budgets and spending accountable.
Dont be too hard, hes just idealistic. I like joe, because hes very vulnerable and very kind. Hes just a normal guy who wants to do good, very noble and love how he has so many voices
I actually think he’s not intentionally being “smart”, I believe that he is actually like a lot of us that want to learn and really understand the world. I appreciate the show because it truly tries to show us both sides of thinking.
That 80 year old war vet shoulda really just been more productive /s. Look, I agree with peter that socialism sucks, but certain groups are really vulnerable and you can’t hope that Zuckerberg is in a giving mood that day.
Capitalism doesn't work for everything.. People hate it, because of how greedy it can be.. So you're telling me, its okay with you that big pharma cheats you with price gouging? Factories having their employees working inhumanely, and with shitty salaries.. Corporation need to be regulated, period..
Exactly like how charitable and efficient the insurance industry is with clients. Digging and making up reasons to deny and kick people off plans that hurt their bottom line.
The Fire Department and welfare are both social services but there is one HUGE difference. The police, fire department, and in some aspects healthcare are not commodities that you wish to consume more of. Who the hell wants their house to burn down so they can use the fire department more. The same can be said about the police where we have seen the police show up to the victims house and shoot the victim while trying to help them. Now medical is a different beast. There are tons of elective procedures people do. Theres a lot of bullshit things see the doctor for as well. Sometimes in Canada you have people seeing multiple doctors for the same illness. My mom is like that, she would develop an opinion on what is wrong with her and she would seek out multiple doctors until someone confirms her bias. Shes the type that believes in Chinese voodoo medicine. So anyway. People aren't going to consume more fire services even if it was free. Welfare is a different beast all together.
Most countries have medical services split into essential and elective. Essential being covered by society as a whole and elective as a marketplace. Private doctors still have hypochondriacs wasting their time. Personally having moved from a country with a fully socialised healthcare system, to one with a mixed system, I have seen a lot more cosmic woo in the mixed system.
Yup and Wolff actually has data to back up his economic stances. Unlike Schiff who pretends Europe doesn't exist while they have successfully implemented socialized healthcare and near free college for the last 50 years.
Why does it have to be “dumb arguments”? Instead of get an opposing view on to have a healthy debate, inform the public and let the public interpret it as they see fit and let the dialogue continue! That is what the founding Fathers had in mind in my opinion and I have a degrees in History and Political science and am able to listen to opposing views without getting my “feelings” hurt!
@@ogre8647 lol feelings! Look joe doesn't understand half the shit he is talking about, he knows it's wrong but can't debunk it. Where Vaush or Kyle K debunk these dumb arguments all the time, this A-hole cherry picks info with no references, then make up a narrative.
I don't see how McDonald's workers can lift themselves out of poverty by 'being more productive and building capital'. Countries like Switzerland and Sweden may be capitalist, but their version of capitalism works. Sweden in particular has lots of social programs and very cheap/free education. When people say they want socialism, they mean they want to live in a country where people are not fucked over by the rich.
Cmon lets please be honest - You cannot compare those countries with the USA, its such a DISHONEST and UNFAIR comparison it really is, those countries have roughly 19 million people combined, the USA has that many ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, we have roughly 18 X more people than those countries with 350+ million people so thats a dishonest comparison . Lets keep it 100% real - People working at McDonalds should use that work as a stepping stone and try to bring more skillset to themselves, i admire anyone who works any job to better themselves but you also have bring a skillset as well.. You want to get mad at the "rich"? ok you should also be upset at politicians who put policies in place that ACTUALLY HURT people instead of pretending they help, stats clearly have shown this the case
He’s no where close to a republican, and the governments subsidies, patents, licensing restrictions against foreign doctors, etc. are what keeps big pharmas monopoly alive allowing them to price gauge. The government is the reason healthcare is so expensive, why would we give them more power over it
8:46 - "When you have a government program, that program exists to benefit the bureaucracy of the program. So they SQUANDER the money. And the last thing they want to do is end poverty because then there's no longer a need for their program. They want to perpetuate dependency." Essentially: there is a conflict of interest when you delegate people to spend other people's money to solve a problem. You can only get it done the right way if you do it with your own money and you own capital which you earned and worked hard for yourself. Makes sense.
Joe Rogan: I'm voting for Bernie
Also Joe Rogan: I'm moving out of Cali because of taxes and regulations
While saying that if they get a republican in office and California flourishes
Bernie's policies make sense if you're thinking emotionally and with your heart. It sounds morally correct. Schiff's make logical sense when you think about it systematically
@@AwesomeRandomVids
Exactly!
Tylerxc309 bernies ideas aren’t moral that’s the dirty secret.
People like joe wanna meet in the middle of the road but in the middle of the road is where you’ll get hit by a truck
Joe Rogan is the most right-wing leftist I've ever seen
He just lets different opinions into ihis hemisphere
That is called being in the center
It's almost like everything isn't black and white.
He knows the difference between right and wrong, he just sells out for the communists 90% of the time.
Never have guessed Sweden was a capitalist society.
That's people listening to Left Propaganda!
"in a free society nobody is equal, in an equal society nobody is free"
This is the jam my man, I feel that quote in my plumbs
Woah
66kaisersoza ...people get a lot of mileage out of anodyne comments like this
Capitalism is the unequal distribution of wealth and socialism is the equal distribution of poverty
Fun quote, but it's bullshit
This is for all those times joe interrupted his guests.
There was a problem with the Skype call. The audio cut out when joes was talking
The audio is pretty good. Some of these shows with the Skype are real lousy.
There’s no need for the fed in the next decade. Even the powers that be want to rid the fed for this
czcams.com/video/d2wdcXQBIlQ/video.html
(1) Schiff loves to talk. He's always like this; but also,
(2) I think there was a delay in the call. Rogan was getting the feed probably 1-2 seconds late.
Rs dude don't shut up😂😂😂
Joe "I'm gonna vote for Bernie but I agree with everything Peter Schiff says" Rogan
😂😂
Brion Stronghold LMAO I think he’s just a bit ignorant when it comes to this. he said he was voting for Bernie because he seemed like the most genuine. whatever that means
Too bad most of what he says is bull
He agrees with anything any guest says, are you new or something?
@Atom Blur spot on. That's why I watch honestly. He has people on from all over the political spectrum and has great conversations.
I hate that Joe is moving to Texas... So many Californians are moving to Texas. So aggravating, how someone would vote for the same thing they are running away from.
Texans have been upset about that for decades
@Lobo the left has literally left us in the middle. We are not more right we just didnt follow the insane.
@@fusion9619 yes and Texas will soon be blue. It's already really close.
It won’t be funny to u when Texas and California are both blue.
Yep. I believe Texas will be Blue by 2024 unless some major shift happens.
Joe’s audience needs to hear Thomas Sowell speak.
I wish I could have liked your comment a billion times! 👍✌
@@rmenard1986 I wish I could have liked your comment a billion times!
No.
I guess he doesn't do many interviews anymore. Took Dave Rubin over a year to get an interview with him.
Sowell is wrong just about everything he discusses.
Joe could literally leave the studio, go get lunch, do his dry cleaning, work out, come back, and Peter would still be talking. 😂
Funny. Except, I’ve never seen Joe wear anything that requires dry cleaning.
I think it was latency, if I'm using the term right. It would have been more equal if they were in tree he same room
...I could be wrong lol
Funny
That's why Peter is the GOAT :')
Can SOMEONE explain to Americans that the Nordic countries are very much into capitalism still?
Okay, explain it?
I find it amusing when Americans on both sides don't understand the nordic model
Unfortunately half the American population thinks adding any government funded programs = immediate socialist government
@@TheReedable go search for "the nordic model"
@styxhexenhammer666
People that want the government to have more power over their lives are the same people that think Nike can be anti racist by making a commercial
Maybe so. The point is for people to have more power over government.
Like when people are ok with the govt arrests protesters.
@@theupscriber65 If you break the law, no shit you're going to get arrested. Now the left is complaining because they don't care about having a civilized society.
While using slave labor.
People begging for there to be less government are the same people fighting defund the police
Everyone demand Thomas Sowell, John McWhorter, and Glenn Loudry be interviewed by Joe.
Jamie Russell & Larry Elder
"Socialist ideas are very popular with young people"....who don't know anything. Yes.
Jody Pelupessy trump just signed an order to lower insulin costs 🤭
@@Rommie26 now do it to every other medicine Americans are overcharged through. Don't come back with muh 'americans subsidise the R&D', it's been disproven so many times
I agree with your comment, but fuck s197 body style. Lmao
Jody Pelupessy the reason one would be pumping insulin is due to becoming insulin resistant. One becomes insulin resistant from poor eating habits. We as Americans need to adopt a new way of eating such as a fasting focused lifestyle that reverses insulin resistance. Sorry but the insulin argument is a poor one. We need to be accountable for our own health and stop asking the gov’t for a temporary fix to a very serious issue which is obesity, which leads to every other health problem a person has. Don’t even get me started on Big Pharma.
Jody Pelupessy they would pay it anyways in taxes, and it would become more expensive, as there wouldn’t be a free market and competition
PETER “don’t tax me” SCHIFF.
Israel needs money tho.....
I don’t want my tax dollars paying for your abortion
his daddy died in prison for tax evasion so he wants his revenge, look it up
@@84jamesp yup, it all comes down to that 👎
@@84jamesp subversion propaganda...you worried about pennies vs the $5 trillion dollars in corporate socialism we just gave out to companies that did not need it who pocketed our taxpayer dollars...stop watching CZcams videos of rich guys lying to you, and go study.
Jesus no more Skype interview's
Or just get better WiFi
I really liked Joe’s assessment of himself: I am often naive and idealistic but still ruthless in my assessment of other people’s character.
Seriously considering extracting that little bit to send to more than a few friends. I have many young friends who think they're left-leaning because of very similar tendencies, but they lack the degree of self-reflection and experience to recognize that this doesn't mean they have to unilaterally agree with one side's policies and their impact on society. I think this statement here leads to a considerably more open mind, and would pull anyone back from wholehearted conviction in either direction on the political spectrum.
Joe should have asked why the ussr does so well in modern russian polls
Socialism is when you're thinking with your heart.
Capitalism is when you're thinking with your brain.
You have to use both your brain and your heart to get a balanced result tho
Capitalism is when you're thinking with your heart and your brain.
This comment section is gonna be fun
Yep. Full of people thinking the US has a free market 😂😂😂
Lmao🍻
@@lowkeyliberty7105 Saying the US isnt a free market is just a dumb as saying it is.
@@Dulc3B00kbyBrant0n either it's free or it's not... And it's not. You should have said "saying the US isn't a free market is just as dumb as calling the US a socialist country". That would've actually made sense.
LowKey Liberty it’s used and used to be great, you used to able to Harvard for 1000 dollars a years, even with inflation it can’t be more than 10k for what used to be one of the greatest in the world
Peter Schiff: The answer to everything in life is to tax me less Joe Rogan: How much taxes do you pay? Peter Schiff: None
Peter does pay taxes on his business but there isn’t income tax in PR
I guess you’ve never heard of sales tax, property tax, capital gains tax. Those are the ones I can name just off the top of my head.
Chuck pretty insane that people like you can vote for higher taxes on people you don’t know when you also don’t know the other taxes that exist
You are the reason the system fails
Schiff is a tax dodging schmuck. He got his now he says screw everyone else. A worthless human being.
Benjamin Henderson you should do research on his dad before you shoot your mouth off. That man was a hero. And it’s not tax dodging when the law is no cap gains tax in PR.
So torn. I’m 75% in agreement but the other 25% of the nuances are where the trouble is. This is the trouble with over simplifying a very complex topic.
Kristian Pedersen Every system has issues, it’s the comparison of the cons and the pros that are important.
@Kristian Pedersen Government is always bad in comparison to private business because Coca Cola isn't going to beat down your door and haul you off to jail if you don't pay them. The huge underlying factor is the dignity of choice on what to do with your spending dollar. Taxation robs citizens of that dignity and takes away their freedom of choice on were to allocate their money. TAXATION IS THEFT.
There's nothing complicated about libertarianism. Would you rather have real ppl work things out or government employees fck it all up?
@@marcmerchant135 dude go look at most of Asia and Africa. If you think private companies will not if they had all the freedom of the world, take advantage of humans to make their products faster, cheaper, and more efficient. Your lost and haven't learnt from history. In no time you would have slavery so you can buy your new iphone 300 cheaper. Asong as it's not you in that factory yea go full free market.
Great point
Having had regular jobs and been self employed for a decade, I couldn't agree any more than this guy. Wow. He's literally said everything I've ever wanted to say and more.
But, I'll add.... Charities, at least in the UK, are mostly fraudulent pieces of shit. 90% on 'directors' driving Porsches and 10% on homeless etc.
You do know that from 1940-1960 taxes was far higher right? Probably not because you've never read an economics or a history book.
JRE is usually great because of the conversation. This guy hammered on his talking points so hard it felt like Joe was talking to a video.
Super annoying!
As much as peter was talking over him, it might as well have been video.
Schiff is a libertarian zealot
@@benjaminhenderson7059 He definitely is an austrian orthodixist but he's also more correct on the overall macroeconomic questions than he is incorrect.
Spot on. Seems disconnected.
In sweden companies pay 50 percent of their income to taxes and your monthly income is nearly 32% taxed so yeah we pay a lot of taxes
Not as much as us business owners who pay almost 60% in taxes
@@deadtonez1349 wrong!
Income tax here is indeed around 32-33% for most, with a few percentage units higher for high earners. However, we do pay more taxes than that too. We have a tax called ”arbetsgivaravgift” that’s payed by the employer for having an employee, which is quite high too (gonna double check the number but I think it’s like 20-30% of the salary too). So if you earn say 20 000 crowns (around 2000 euros) you’ll get around 13000 after taxes, but your employer has to pay around 25-30 000 to have you employed with your salary plus the arbetsgivaravgift. Furthermore, we have taxes on goods that’s usually around 12% and always included in the price (some products the government likes, like books, only have a tax of 6%). So... we pay a lot more than 32% in actual taxes. But sure, we get a lot for it health care wise etc
In US you pay more than 32% on your income.
ricomajestic income tax is not the only tax that business owners get
I’ve had conversations with college aged children who truly want socialism.
I’ve pointed out that Marx left one very important thing out of his nightmare of socialism.
And the college children are shocked when I say that Marx forgot about human nature.
They argue about about how “we would do it right this time”
I point out that it’s not them I’m truly concerned with, it’s the graft, and abuse, and eliteism that goes hand in hand with any governmental structure.
That normal corruption of all government systems by human beings is not going away, but in a society governed by socialism the corruption levels grow faster than the government can keep up with.
Humans cause this corruption.
Here’s a great idea, let’s get rid of corrupt capitalism, that at least gives everyone a shot and replace it with corrupt socialism that would degrade into communism and give everybody nothing.
You forget that capitalism is the one that forgets human nature. In capitalism too much power is given to certain individuals and more times than not (in fact the overwheliming majority of the time) given to them democratically. In socialism you couldnt have that problem because no one individual is given more power than the next unless democratically chosen.
Daniel Hyman how do you think any decisions would be made in a social list society, by national vote!?!
Someone has to be put in a leadership position.
And because of human beings habit of favoritism and nepotism caused by.... HUMAN NATURE! Socialism and communism are horrible forms of government.
Period.
You have to have a Government to guide and direct the overall system or socialism fails.
Get it!?!
Yes unchecked capitalism is bad.
In the western world we put several layers of checks and balances on our capitalism.
We regulate our capitalism, sometimes more than we should sometimes less than we should.
It’s not perfect.
But Capitalism has lifted more human beings out of poverty than any other form of economic system,,,, ever in human existence.
Period.
You are one of these soybean sheep aren’t you?
Can’t figure out that hard work and a direction in life will serve you better that hiding behind a computer keyboard in your moms basement bitching because you don’t have anything.
Do yourself a favor get up early in the morning, find a job that makes as much money as possible. Then find a way to work towards getting a skill set that pays you more money and work towards that skill set.
I’m a Merchant Marine.
I started out as a lowly deck hand making 100$ a day.
5 years later I am making 750$ a day as an engineer on a ship.
No college debt.
I only work 6 months a year.
A month on a month off.
Because that’s what I worked towards.
A friend of mine started out as a plumbers assistant 10 years ago, he now has 3 trucks 10 people working for him at his own plumbing company.
My uncle started at age 19 framing houses and now he owns a framing company, with 8 employees.
No college is needed to live your dreams.
You do however need to get up off your ass and decide on what you want and then go out and figure out how to get it.
@@ianstradian Well decisions i think would be made by the communes similar to local governments but run by a sortition system. Of lottery chosen individuals to make some sort of parliment. This is just in socialism not communism. Because as im sure you know communism has no government and is a form of anarchy. Within the workplace everything is run democratically. Rather than the capitalists making the decisions the workers will. If the workers feel that theyre not competent enough to run the business on their own they can just vote for their boss and keep their boss. Not hard. Poverty is an interesting one because Im not saying capitalism is all bad it has a purpose at producing goods mire efficiently but its overstayed its welcome. The soviet union and China industrialized and lowered poverty at way faster rates than america or Britain ever has. So to say our form of western capitalism is the best at reducing poverty is factually wrong. Im glad you work hard but not everyone has an opportunity at least an equal opportunity. Socialism just wants democracy and equal opportunity with it.
Daniel Hyman how do you think the Soviet Union industrialized faster than Europe?
The Bolshevik Revolution was almost 100 years after the industrial revolution in Europe?
And yes if you can learn from already industrialized nations and buy the technology to get your country industrialized you can industrialize at a lighting rate.
Japan was a hermit country until they began to modernize and industrialize, they went from walking to steam engines on rail roads in less than 30 years.... because they bought the technology,,, they did not have to develop it.
Oh...
And let’s say that you are a worker in a factory in your society of socialism, and you are getting paid a wage.
Do you think that the person who runs the facility should get paid more?
If so... that’s a capital idea.
How about the family doctor, does the doctor get paid more than the ditch digger?
Because in a society that is truly socialist both should be equal, only they are not equal, because the ditch digger will suffer injuries and have to retire at 50 with a job span of 30 to 35 years, while the doctor can be a doctor into his 80’s with a job span of 55 years.
Even though both get paid the same wage, the doctor gets paid more.
Then there is the ability for the doctor to make money on the side illegally, because you know “human nature “ while the ditch digger does not have that ability.
As far as China and Russia lowering poverty, that is a lie.
China lowered the level of income and wealth at the upper end of society, by nationalization of industry and wealth appropriation ( they stole the wealth from the rich).
So everyone was on the same level, as poor as the next person.
Russia threw a third of the population of the planet into death camps and killed off entire generations in certain areas of their control, and because a dead person can’t flip a burger the income of the population that was under Soviet rule all ended up on the same level... mostly poor, standing in bread lines.
Bread lines that would not be there if capitalism was, supply and demand and all that stuff.
I’m tired of debunking your infantile attempt to sway my convictions.
Go back to mooching off your mom.
And keep believing the BS your buddies keep sending you via email links.
I’ll be riding my Harley or Driving my Truck, and having a relationship with a real female person.
Unlike some people who cannot get out of their moms basement.
Have a nice life.
I’m out.
I’ve had enough of Idiots for a long while.
Umm, In Sweden, we pay more tax if you make more. Only on the money above the specific limit though.
Peter Schiff have no clue what he talking about
same in the US. all kinds of taxes for everything here.
Marginal tax in Sweden is nuts
real rich people always in debt. you silly Sweden...their money always investment. investment. investment. investment. borrow from banks to investment. you can't find a dime in their pocket.
dragonsder lmao right? What a concept
Peter “the reason people are poor is they are not earning enough money” Schiff
Boom! Mind blown!
The key word is “earning.”
Bill H “Productivity”
You could give everyone $50,000,000 and most of the poor would end up poor again. Some people suck with money and some people simply don't value being wealthy.
Think about, when the government prices teens out of valuable experience in the job market, gives loans for college they will never Pay back for degree they will never use, what do you expect will happen
The "greed is beneficial for everyone" point is only semi-true. This incentive is not good products, but appearance of good products, and over time corporations found the way to cheat this incentive. People are irrational, and even when they are not - the dopamine abuse systems gone a long way and now are very difficult to resist.
There's countless examples of corporations doing things that are terrible. If the government didn't regulate things minimum wage wouldn't exist, child labor, and slavery would still be used in this country. Johnson and Johnson sold talcum powder KNOWING people would get cancer from it, but did it anyways. I love how he talks about the 50s like it was all hunky dory and ignores things like how cigarettes were advertised as healthy.
@frostfire65 Eh, not quite stupidity, more like hacked social psychology. You could say that's exploiting a type of stupidity but to me thats exploiting human nature. Semantics, I know. Hear me out, if human nature is stupid, then humans should never label it as such unleas that humans is also claiming to be superhuman. Maybe to call our human fallacies stupid is to imply that we think we're an exception. Maybe that, in of itself, is another fallacy. Maybe that's also stupid. In less roundabout words: maybe it takes a smart person to admit they're stupid like everyone else.
@@twistednipzz Regulating minimum wage has been a disaster in every country its used in fyi, so dont assume government regulation of corporations is always good.
@@Scrotom No. Some people are smarter than others. and some people are dumber than others. Those people far dumber than the majority are considered stupid. Maybe a smart person will say that they are not that much smarter than the majority, but they are still smarter. Therefore not stupid.
@@Durram258 that is why unions are important, because neither the government OR corporations are looking out for the average Joe, but with their collective bargaining they can actually get their demands met or they get met with violence, which there is ALSO countless examples of.
Get Thomas Sowell and Walter E Williams on JRE
RIP Walter. E
Get them to debate richard wolff
What type of camera equipment and software do you need to make this kind of podcast? In regards to the video "conferencing". My friend lives overseas and I want to record my conversations with him like this, audio and video. What do I need to get started. Any help will be greatly appreciated!
A normal camera setup with video mixing in OBS studio.
Joe “86% of what I know about the economy is from you, so I’m an idiot” Rogan
2:51
Brandon 😝
From Joe who's a big Bernie guy.
That was a low-key insult that went over Schiff head
want more hand-outs do we?
I’m so glad Joe finally brought someone who actually understands economics on to spit straight facts.
For real
@@damondiamantes8750 how does he understand economics? he wants guys like Bezos to get even more money and have us deal with unfettered capitalism. He also said at least 20 verifiable lies in this clip alone.
@@Ty-tl9ln what are the 20 verifiable lies?
@@liamrmorgans921there were none they are completely ignorant about economics and live in their mother's basement. Never owned a home or worked a full time job
@Ty-tl9ln- can you give 1 of those verifiable lies?
This whole episode is what it feels like to talk to my dad
I feel like I’ll never understand Joe’s political stance 😂
He is forced to maintain a certain perception so he's not blacklisted
he doesnt understand his own political stance lol
Maybe politics are a spectrum rather than one side v the other
Joe Rogan doesn't understand Joe's political stance
who cares. listen to the message
I love capitalism. But let's be real: SOME BODY IS GONNA BE POOR.
Does anybody know of any economic system where EVERYONE is a success?
Odin Aesthetic doesn’t exist no system if perfect but capitalism is the most perfect system we know of currently
problem is not to be poor but miserable. not everybody wants a luxury life. thats why so many people form 3rd world countries give up on their vocation to clean toilets seats in america. Like you studied 5 years to become a dentist and is your dream job but if you go to a more capitalist coutry your life will be better even if you are considered poor in that country. thats why so many people from south and central america wants to enter the us to clean pools and walk dogs.
I believe Dwayne Alejandro Camacho said it best in his speech about the eco "Everybody gonna be millionaires'
Not everyone can be the biggest succes, but you can raise the average level of wealth and succes. Covering basic things like affordable housing, education and healthcare won’t make kings out of everyone, but it will certainly raise the average wealth level.
In true free market capitalism poverty is relative. Even in the shit system with the high taxes today the amount of free market we do have has people who work with living standards higher than royalty 150 years ago. Rising tide lifts all boats.
this is completely misguided, because this implies that corporations actually pay the tax rate that is placed on them. all this will do is get them to pay closer to what is expected of them.
And I agree with this but that realization is why you don't just raise the numbers in a broken system. We need a complete overhaul of tax code and a closing of loopholes these corporations use. Let's enforce what we already have in the meantime and stop allowing it to be games while we fashion a new tax code
Yes! Exactly yummydiddy
Lincoln TANKsley im with you 100% there
@@Tusk_Tact Yes, flat tax for ALL corporations and ALL individuals.
Peter schiff is a literal beast. He has never lost a debate. Anyone talking shit wont be able to keep up w this man.
How about we stop charging 50% corporate tax, when they stop asking for bailout every other year and giving their top executives hundreds of millions in bonus.
Maybe if we truly regulate Wall Street, the domino effect will occur less often. Now in this pandemic, the care act created far more income inequality between corporations and small businesses. Also Wall Street r conducting more corrupt actions than 2008, where will end up in another depression.
They wouldn't need a bailout if they didn't have ridiculous government regulations dictating most of their actions. This reminds me of the housing crisis.
Gov: "we will force banks to give out risky loans, and if they do not comply theyre finished. Because compassion or the poor or whatever.
Banks: "ok i guess we will comply, but the reason we're not giving these loans is because people won't pay them back."
Then they complied. Then people didn't pay their mortgages back. Then it all went to shit. And the barely conscious morons of this country come to the conclusion that the banks are the problem. Despite the fact that mortgage loans were the safest loans in history before gov involvement. But I guess facts don't really matter to people.
@@STL-sl7zv did the government regulations force the banks to give their top executives hundreds millions in bonus?
It’s basically impossible to be rich in Sweden. We don’t have an inheritance tax because the “rich” (the 1% starts at and mainly consists of those earning $110k a year) never have a chance to hand down any wealth. Calculated just for fun: In order to pay you 110k, your employer must devote 145k to your salary, and of the 110k you get, you pay an additional 44k. You keep only 66k a year if your company throws 145k at you.
Sweden has more billionaire's per million person then the US
It's pretty similar to Brazil then.
Thats the cold reality. When your country embraces economically impossible plans, it has consequences. All the medical care, refugee care, and massive bureaucracy all cost a lot of money and that money has to come from somewhere. Even though Sweden has been dialing these programs back, generations of swedes are gonna have to foot the bill.
@@STL-sl7zv What about when your economy creates impossible to fix problems like climate change? Should we all just hold hands and walk into the apolocypse bc we were too stubborn to create a better system?
Sweden has many billionaires, and their wealth inequality index is around average among developed countries.
I only give to St. Jude. 100% goes to the care of the patients and their family.
That's actually a good organization helping kids with hospital and medical
Charities that are prepared to spend more can make more. Same as any enterprise.
Is it more moral to put every cent of income into the cause, or spend a big chunk of what you collect in order to be able to collect a lot more money and do more for the cause?
There is no easy answer.
Kind of depends on the cause as well.
It is true that Sweden has reduced its government spending pretty much every year since 1993. It's still higher in total than the US though, which is what people like Bernie are alluding to.
And they can get away with it because they don’t carry the entirety of NATO on their back
Joe "I'm seeing the problem with socialism but support Bernie Sanders" Rogan
Private charity: Givers feel virtuous; receivers feel grateful.
Government charity: Givers feel resentful; receivers feel entitled.
BarkusMuhl
Exactly!!! 👍
The highest income earners in Sweden are taxed less than they are in the U.S. because the wealth disparity is no where near as disproportionate.
That's the game they play. Play with words to confuse people. They always ignore the little details.
@@ricomajestic no for real! If he was truly an honest actor he wouldn't have left that crucial detail out of his analysis!
This guy had talking points on command. It was so painful to listen.
So you guys are the wealthy guys who are willing to give up 50 percent of your income then? I highly doubt it, why is the disparity so different between the top and the bottom over there then? Is it because they have about the same amount of people as new york? That's one reason, is it because almost everyone contributes there? That's another reason. Is it because they dont export all of their jobs? There is another reason. Is it because they dont have mass immigration like here with millions of illegal immigrants? There is so much more to what you guys are saying then your "on command talking points" you are doing the same thing and leaving tons of info out too and none of us know the complete complexity of this topic as it relates to Sweden.
@ there's many reasons why there's a major difference in wealth disparity between both countries but that's not the point. The point is that tax rates and brackets should be determined within the context of the country's economy. If you have such a discrepancy between the highest and lowest income earners, than the moral and economically feasible thing to do would be to redistribute some of that wealth.
Sweden has never adopted socialism. What is this man talking about? Having a welfare programme is not adopting socialism. You pay taxes for the millitary. Do you consider paying tax for the millitary a socialist ideal? Americans just understand that contribution based taxes do not equate to socialism.
What definition of socialism are you using?
They don't pay for their own military. America does. Personally, I gotta fact check the part about their history testing socialism out.
“Hell is full of people with Good intentions”.
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
Has rogan seen russian polls on ussr
Please have Thomas Sowell on
Yes!
“Most of what i know about economics is from you so im an idiot” -rogan lmfao
Hahaha...he lowkey roasted him
Very true... I don't know what none sense this expert guy is trying to sell us after friedman Melton economic ideas drove us to this Epic eniquality WE are living though.
@@klemrio73 What inequality? You live better than every generation that preceded you.
I personally agree with this guy, but he'll never change someone's mind who disagrees with him. He wouldn't even let Joe finish agreeing with him
So you think Joe... was letting him speak? seriously?
finished watching it.... mk yeah... Joe does give him the floor later on... I feel you now
Joe LOVES his fire department analogy lol
This guy trusts corporations and the rich waaaaay too much. He acts like they actually pay the taxes they’re expected to pay and act like they’d want to give money away instead of keeping it for themselves
Libertarians capitalists are some of the most naive people in the world. Libertarian Socialism for the win, if any of you havent heard of worker coops you should check them out. They're a perfect example of Socialism working in the U.S.
His point is more that businesses will pay a price for being wrong, whereas politicians and public intellectuals almost never pay any price at all. If your engineering company has some bold new idea for an artistic looking building and that building collapses and kills the people inside then youre ruined. If a politician or intellectual has some wonderful idea for reorganizing the world and it ends in disaster theyre more often than not reelected or given academic tenure.
@Brion Stronghold Fuck the government the workers would reclaim their liberty by seizing the means of production on their own. Libertarian Capitalism is the oxymoron. Where's your liberty when all of the fruit of your labor goes to one small group of people ontop who "own" the means of production currently. You just want a different authority to submit to.
@@STL-sl7zv What about all of the people who create shit that kills people but get away w it bc they're already rich enough to absorb the damage? Shouldn't we have a prison system that punishes the rich and politicians equally?
Capitalism works when the whole game isn’t keeping all your money. However our current state where all the rich people hord the wealth and won’t take chances right or wrong isn’t working for the majority of the country.
Gary Paskvić the rich are the real socialists bailout tax exemptions subsidies ... welfare ssi Medicaid stand in awe of the $$ given to corporations
Gary Paskvić that’s not true. They already tried your low taxation libertarian Experiment in Chile in the 80s. It sent many people into poverty and made the rich far far richer. They don’t reinvest because most of the rich people got it from inheritance so they don’t even know how to deal with business. 80% of wealth is inherited. For the 20% - 30% who do start a business they will invest but they will invest anyway because they know how to survive regardless of the circumstances.
Gary Paskvić I live in LA. Trust fund kids are everywhere and they usually are dumb because they never had to figure out how to survive. They also have very little empathy for other humans because they were pampered all their lives. That money should be taken away by the government and invested in more worthwhile things than trust fund kids luxuries.
@@rorobobo8401 The vast majority of people who have a lot of money made it themselves, according to a new report.
The market research firm Wealth-X analyzed the state of the world’s ultra-wealthy population - or those with a net worth of $30 million or more. The report, which is based on 2018 data, “showed muted growth” in the number of ultra-wealthy people that year, “rising by 0.8% to 265,490 individuals,” says Wealth-X.
Of those folks, 67.7% were self-made, while 23.7% had a combination of inherited and self-created wealth. Only 8.5% of global high-net-worth individuals were categorized as having completely inherited their wealth.
I’m happy to donate my tax to a charity of my choice. Rather than the government take my tax and spend it on things I don’t believe in.
Remember: Social-programs-are-still-capitalism
this guy has no clue what socialism is
@Professor Shibe I'm gonna have to agree with Tommy Gunn - socialism means workers seizing the means of production by a basic definition not social programs. It is debatable whether the workers owning the means of production alone is socialism, but welfare states such as the Nordic model of economy are not socialist.
@@alistairstanbridge7461 well this tommy gunn is a hipocryte. if it is not socialism which technically he might be right, it is for sure not capitalism. He just fails to aknowledge any intermediate
possibility, specially when socialists are the ones who always claim for them. It is like the communism never existed cliche, technically its right but then capitalism doesnt either.
@@patriciomalbran140 this is capitalism - the power corporations have over the government forces it to bail them out and the amount of lobbying corporations,especially powerful insurance companies, does is insane. An increase in government owned and subsidised nstitutions does not equal socialism, more like social democracy with clear hierarchical structure similar to that of capitalist companies. Also, in the past, with less regulations on capital, workers worked 7 days a week all day for slave wages, and many companies had private armies to rival the government's. The monopoly on violence the government has now prevents the ultimate oppression of workers by corporations.
@@alistairstanbridge7461 seems like you dont understand capitalism mate and you have no idea of economic history either.
also following that line I could say communism was tried and every time it ended up in a dictatorship, mass poverty and genocide and that keynesianism is modern day comunism.
People with resources will hoard more resources most of the time.
I understand the point you are making and in some cases that is true. But people always want more than what they have, so they invest those resources into other things so they can get richer. When people invest, they are giving more people jobs and those people also get richer. Take amazon for example, it’s a trillion dollar company, but Jeff Bezos is only worth $200 billion, that means he made other people $800 billion.
Idle resources, most especially cash will depreciate in vallue due to inflation.
Sometimes the so called "unintended consequenes" are actually anticipated and desired.
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Yep. Evil puppeteers and useful idiots.
Harsh Jain has always come
@@eskanda3434 Forcing equity is the main reason they call such collectivist ideologies "utopian". Human uniqueness dictates that outcomes will never be truly equal. So they are attempting an impossible task from the get-go. But this is very convenient for those that are pulling the strings for the expansion of governmental power. The pursuit of equity never ends, so the government essentially keeps making any changes it wants, citing the unachievable goal as the reasoning. All under the guise of morality. And the useful idiots proudly fall in line.
@@eskanda3434 czcams.com/video/CtH7DmknEFY/video.html.
Here bro
Yes, Joe this nation for two hundred years lived like he is saying because it lived by Christian values. While all were not Christians the culture was largely influenced by it and that is how we got hospitals, schools, etc.. but now the government is god and we are feeling the effects. I am not saying you have to be a Christian to have these benefits but anyone who is intellectually honest should be able to see.
There’s no need for the fed in the next decade. Even the powers that be want to rid the fed for this
czcams.com/video/d2wdcXQBIlQ/video.html
This “economist” skipped a lot of how racism has historically been intertwined with American capitalism. Private sector and govt have both fucked over certain groups of people. Proponents of capitalism always leave out how we ended up with things like federal minimum wage (which has never been indexed to inflation and hasn’t gone up in over a decade) .
Seems like you do too since the the minimum wage was was made in the first place to get rid of black workers
@@keodiozubu8670 source?
Nice to see a capitalist on the show for a change.
Hes a fraud look him up
Pfffft. When has he had anyone who was an actual socialist?
As opposed to all the other ones.
@@benjaminhenderson7059 He had Bernie Sanders on, who is at best a socialist at worse an actual Commie. In reality he is a millionaire because of Capitalism. So he is a hypocrite for certain.
@@kesh4171 "commie" Just goes to show you have no clue what you're talking about. Keep getting propaganda from conservative multi-millionaires who feed you establishment talking points. If you're working class and you're saying this shit, you're an idiot that's brainwashed by corporate mouthpieces.
there is no way in hell you can rely on donations man. "bob" will also not donate and trust me there will be lots of "bobs". i saw that sneaky trick there too he tried to connect donation to fire departments.
Only leftist think like that that’s why people on the right give more charity than so called compassionate left
Olivia can you cite your claim?
This was a really good discussion between Joe and Peter. I’ve got two points that I would have discussed more with Joe. First at 2:32, when Joe say “…they connect socialism to empathy to kindness, socialism to people who are less greedy, socialism to people more interested in a community”, that Joe is correct that socialist say those things; but socialism isn’t those things. Empathy and kindness are not forcibly taking from others to give a little of the taken stuff to others, socialism is even more materialistic, i.e. greedy, then the prototypical capitalist because all they see and want is material things that other have. Capitalism lets individuals show empathy and kindness through acts of charity and by helping others, I can’t remember who said it but it is only in capitalism that a people can make money by helping others.
My second point is at the 10:15 point in the video. Joe says “what you’re saying is there’s an opportunity to be compassionate without like the demand for you being compassionate by the federal government.” If someone or something is forcing you to be compassionate, then you are not acting compassionately. No one can be compelled to be compassionate, the government is cloaking it forcibly taking of one person’s property to pretend to help someone else as compassion. To be forced to be compassionate can make people callous and turn people against a perceived out group.
I am a believer in the free market system, but also a believer in telling the truth. While many of Peter's points are correct, they don't have much context. For example, even though US corporate tax rates are high, the accounting rules are also much more pro business than other countries, and why many corporations (like Amazon), pay next to nothing. If we can have a truly honest conversation of the benefits of free market economy, and address the concerns of those who want more of a social democracy, I believe most of the latter would be convinced. Using the type of language like theft and coercion is bombastic and will not bridge that gap Joe is referring to. Like is it still theft of dollars to fund the military? Of course not. Even die hard capitalists want to have some wealth transfer to incentivize people to have children, as an example. A single person could say that is theft to support a family, which in reality, a family uses more of the government services and should be taxed higher. So, I wish Joe would actually find another, less biased person to get his economics knowledge.
Amazon and Walmart pay next to nothing because of corruption, not because of legit rules
13:16 Yo why do I imagine Walter White right here talking about his product and customers??
Hahahah hit the nail on the head
Ha! Because it is the same logic. The mythical rational free choice.
If the real world worked like Schiff says it does, there would be no meth heads.
Clearly you are not paying attention.
The only reason it looks like Joe is interrupting him is because the guy is ranting without stopping. The guy has one big flaw in his explanation. He says people shouldn't see private business as evil or government as angels, yet he is advocating for the opposite, which I don't believe in either. A lot of businesses don't care about people and communities at all. Also, people are horrible with responsibility and money for example. There is a reason people with lower incomes buy more lottery tickets. Socialist programs can prevent these people from landing under a bridge after one medical bill. A lot of people aren't able to 'take care of their shit'. To just tell those people to make better decisions is not going to help in the end.
How do you end up homeless from private medical debt? The idea is not true, you can pay a bona fide monthly payment of nominal amount, say 5 dollars in perpetuity. Anyone signing agreements for garnishments are ill informed.
this would in fact be joe's Bob theory. so fuck Bob he can handle the consequences of his own actions.
Joe chose emotion over facts. Lots of people in the comments don’t even know what socialism is. Also, socialism isn’t moral
US is bombing 7 3rd world countries for NO reason ... morals were tossed out a long time ago ...
Jaerock that has nothing to do with capitalism lol were talkin bout domestic issues
It is moral. It just doesn't work. That's why I support Nordic Flexicurity/Social Democracy.
@Akmal Ahmad Widely spread common use design isn't socialism, you dummy. Socialism is State-owned means of production; no private property, that's it. Meaning that you don't own yourself nor anything that should and could be yours.
@@Xpistos510 What's moral is possible, if it isn't, it's definetely not moral. And theft is never moral; you cannot do good by bad means, it has to be consistent. And the reason those countries fare well is not because it's social programs (which don't work as intended, btw, and never will) it's thanks to their pro free-market stance.
I live in a poor and rural county in Oregon. We have no public county fire department. We do have two private fire departments. I pay about $600/year to be a member of one of them. If I have a fire, they come and will fight it. If I choose not to pay, I and my neighbors will fight it ourselves. I will do the same for my neighbors. It works here. Works for me.
Black JetBoat
A stupid anecdote, if you're so against socialism then how about you start advocating for the abolishment of the military, schools and hospitals, let's see how that works out for the country. Libertarian dipshits like this Peter guy are completely delusional and their fantasies will never have any popular support.
The reason taxes are lower in Sweden is they have very strong unions and don’t pay their workers starvation wages like they do in America.
Swoozle a report found that minimum wage workers can’t afford rent in any US state but go off
A right-libertarian would have no issue with the voluntary formation of unions which help to bid up the price of labour for a specific job. It's good that individuals who dont have great negotiating skills have someone working on their behalf to get the best deal. The problem is when the government comes in and sets an arbitrary minimum (which is not even remotely tied to a "liveable wage") on what a person can be paid. All it does is disrupt the market and prevents employees from earning what they're worth
@@MonarchoHoppean yup, the fundamental issue w socialism is the level of power it hands the government.
Starvation wages dude calm down and think what you just said, America has obesity issues.
@Swoozle SNAP is subsidizing companies that don't pay their workers a living wage. The other side of it is that a lot of jobs shouldn't actually exist. Amazon is proof that brick and mortar, and the workers inside, are not needed. Amazon is the vending machine of stuff, and it has been wildly successful
I love that, if you tax 60%, you are nationalizing the companies, the government now owns those companies.
I would love someone to point out one of the biggest flaws of capitalism to Peter. The court case of Ford vs. Dodge. When the Dodge brothers who were shareholders of the Ford Motor Company sued them because Ford wanted to pay more money to their workers, well above market rate, which benefited the workers but not the shareholders. The court ruled the shareholders come first. The only way a major corporation can do the right thing is if it translates into more dollars for the shareholders, such as good p.r. that drives more people to buy their product. Paying the employees the bare minimum is okay if it raises the stock price for shareholders. Even if the employees could use the money more than the shareholders.
To me, that is a huge flaw and gets in the way of Peter's message that corporate bosses being greedy benefits the employees.
If the CEO of a major corporation decided to take profits that were going to go to expansion and acquisition and instead use it to raise all low level employees' salaries out of kindness to the employees, the shareholders would go "hey that money could've been used to make us more money, we're suing you."
1) The increased capital resulting from reinvestment into the company using the increased profits would benefit all future consumers, and visa versa, increasing the wage of the workers costs all future consumers.
2) (Democratic) Socialists and/or Liberals don't have a solution to this problem. If the goal was to increase the net benefit for all (the common good) then the workers would not be 'protected', because those protections come at the cost of everyone else. What happens in democracies usually, is that there are politicians representing the interests of the shareholders of the large players in the industry, and politicians representing the interests of the workers (unions), and since the general populous doesn't have enough of a stake for their interests to be represented, so they don't get representation (search 'Public Choice Theory' on CZcams), so the politicians 'protecting the workers' pass laws forcing companies to pay them more or give them other such benefits, then the politicians representing the shareholders introduce regulations on the industry as a whole, making it harder for competitors to enter the market and compensating for the decreased leverage over the workers. Rinse and repeat for decades, until there are a ludicrous amount of regulations on everything and everyone loses except the senior members of unions and the shareholders that influence the politicians.
3) There are other ways of structuring companies to give the workers more power, co-ops are an obvious example, the problem with such business structures is that if the Ford Motor Company was structured so that workers had more influence than the shareholders, then it's unlikely that the shareholders would have invested in the first place, making it impossible for the company to grow to such scale. It's a trade off that gets decided when the company is founded, and those types of companies (large scale manufacturing) are exactly the type where if you've figured out the optimum way to operate before your competitors, then the sections of the company can get duplicated infinitely until you win. They don't lend themselves to co-op style structures because most of the unique irreplaceable work is done at the top, making it (comparatively) very risky to start such a company when you don't have the ability to force your workers to adopt the optimum operating procedure (when it involves them being fired or accepting otherwise undesirable conditions), because otherwise your competitors could scale faster and react faster to changes in the market.
I will grant you that this is an interesting case and that libertarians are often guilty of acting like it's more obvious than it is, and can come across pretty condescending.
Also, there is a strong case against intellectual property existing in the first place, which would allow someone to (though it would be very costly,) abandon their company, take the workers with them and start again without being sued for patent infringement. Here is a video on the subject if you're interested czcams.com/video/cWShFz4d2RY/video.html.
Tim, Peter has talked about this several times over the years during his old radio program. Schiff is great, because he knows so much about economics, history, money, and always explains it so everyone can understand.
You should email him and have him explain your question in detail on one of his shows.
the message is, people would give more freely if they weren't being stolen from
Stuart Driedger exactly.
I'm gonna politely disagree. That takes a lot of faith in people for starters. Schiff, like most conservatives, was harkening back to the late 40s and 50s as the greatest period of time for American businesses and workers. What's weird about that is the fact that tax rates were the highest they have ever been in our nation's history during that era. I recognize there are problems with waste in our social safety net, but Schiff isn't preaching "free market capitalism" for anyone's benefit but his own.
m t what happened in the 40s and 50s? Ww2 leveled half of Europe. America was the only first world country that wasn’t destroyed. So we had no competition
Marcus J so you're saying we had the *ability to tax corporations more because industries couldn't just move their operations to other places like China for example?
So, when is Jeff Bezos going to start giving away his money to "charities". I say the man was good at 100 billion, don't you think?
When I was having troubles getting by as a single father, government programs helped me get through it, I didn't get a dime from any charities.
I think the point is that private charities would have more to give if people weren't getting assfucked by the tax man.
The argument is that the without the government intervention in the economy you wouldn’t have had to rely on the government in the first place. Things like the efficiency from a free market and only essential taxes would have allowed you to have savings or at least more control over your income
When I was having troubles getting by, I was FORCED to help you, because government threatened to throw me in a locked jail cell for 5 years if I didn't. My family was forced to be a lower priority than a stranger.
"Help" is given VOLUNTARILY, otherwise it's not really 'help' at all, but just extortion.
Sweden isn’t socialist. It’s a social democracy.
@D2 E2 Obviously Sweden is a capitalist country with a massive economic safety net, the question really is which economic policies from any successful capitalist country ( with an economic safety net of a certain form ) that can help the US economy the most, on one side you got places like Sweden and Denmark which are capitalist countries with a massive economic safety net ( aka a safety net that extends to the majority of decisions if not all citizens ) which would result in higher taxation,
Then on the other side you got places like Hong Kong and Singapore which are capitalist countries with a low economic safety net ( aka a safety net that extends to only people in poverty, senior citizens, and people with major disabilities ) which would result in lower taxation.
With regards to what Schiff says about Sweden, I sent this to a friend of mine that lives in Sweden, he’s British and this is what he said after I asked of what Schiff says is true about Sweden here:
“Hahaha, what a load of tripe. There is massive tax on house owning and selling for example. Everything is taxed.
Sweden has taxed highly since the 30s. It was a shithole before that, and a lot of people were drunk. It rebuilt the country on socialism, it's gone back a bit in the last 10 years but if you own a business, you are taxed highly, if you earn anything, taxed hightly. It all goes into the big pot and is shared out again. Rich people leave because of the high taxes. He's talking shit because there are no poor people in Sweden, to speak of, and it's not a good look for those who want to demonise socialism.”
Who in their right mind would want that? If I’m a business owners. I’m taking all the liability for this business. I’m paying the wages, insurances, rent, overhead ect... If I’m doing all this why should I be punished with super high taxes? All the while my profits(taxes) go to some asshole who didn’t have the ingenuity or guts to do what I’m doing? That’s a bad deal for anyone who’s a business owner.
@@ledflaplin2001 you need capital and labour to produce dividends in business without capital or labour you can not make a dividend. This would make them mutual, and the dividend should be shared mutually.
People seem to want socialism but fail to see what it’s done to nations that have tried it; most recently Venezuela
That's such a bullshit argument, when was Venezuela a great place to live? Never, not before socialism, not during and not after. People who don't want socialized health care have no problem pouring 700bn+ into the war machine.
@@Dennis-gr8ex they had great natural resources and a promising future before socialism. People in Venezula at least had food to eat before socialism and there was a growing middle class. Stop being a commie.
@@henryoculus389 I'm not a socialist, it's just that dumb reasoning doesn't bring anything. Look at Russia, they used to be socialist now they're capitalists, the place is still a shithole.
Funny how this guy is anti-socialism and claims to be a Libertarian, yet his actions are all Marxist and his talking points he espouse are Libertarian. The irony is not lost on me. King of the grifters
what about say any pro or con arguments without guessing other people ideologies?
I don't know to much about economics but I do know Henry Cejudo has an olympic gold medal
And also ducked Petr Yan
@@fullbull9771 Henry would ragdoll that potato you're telling me he fought and finished Marlon but was scared of Petr Yan?
really? are you sure its not the national state gold? he never mentions it
@@dodoodoodoodo7566 it is true Henry has an olympic gold medal he's very humble so you may have not known about it
Joe ROGAN should moderate a debate between this guy and Kyle kulinski
Absolutely. Or between him and someone like Ro Khanna, Richard Wolf, or any educated economist.
Schiff offered to debate Kyle but I assume he turned it down
@@Xpistos510 richard wolf is a radical socialist why would anyone do that?
@@Xpistos510 czcams.com/video/_j8PGW3WBek/video.html
That guy is 100% right, good for Peter Schiff.
Joe if you think people are terrible, then what makes you think people in government are more virtuous than people that work for companies that have to earn your money?
"The money taken away from me in taxes I wudve invested to help grow the economy or given to charity."
Wow that sounds great Peter. Sell us more on trickle down economics.
Lightbulbs. Internal combustion. The cell phone. The microchip. The car.
All once exclusive to the rich. Now in the pocket of al.ost every American.
It's not much different from assuming government employees will spend the tax money the way they're supposed to. Both angles assume the best result of human character, which is why both end up with major holes and abuse of money accumulation.
At least if we have more choice about how we spend our money, then we have power to direct things. But we also must accept the responsibility. When we can't collectively understand that we must choose economy and charity often enough to support it, then the argument for unavoidable taxation (like income and sales taxes) becomes inevitable. Still, ideally, we should have the choice of where we spend the money we earn. Or ELSE, we need to be able to hold government budgets and spending accountable.
next you'll tell me hand-outs grow the economy right?
Must give joe major credit for letting a great guest talk without interruption.
If Sweden became rich and well through capitalism why would they "try and experiment" with Socialism at all?
I once asked Peter why are my kids not listening to their mom - he wisely said “If there was no government ...” a 3 hour rant followed 🤣
"86% of what I know about the ecconomic world is from you..... so I'm an idiot."
Very fucking true, Joe.
😂
Dont be too hard, hes just idealistic.
I like joe, because hes very vulnerable and very kind.
Hes just a normal guy who wants to do good, very noble and love how he has so many voices
@1:55 socialism really is fascism. Grates my ears when I hear Americans talk about European socialism.
Agreed. Its like when Europeans talk about America or trump being our president.
Socialism is bad
Socialism is a philosophy of failure.
This guy is making a lot of sense.
I know it sounds like Peter is hogging the mic but sadly Joe is beyond his depth. I prefer he shut up and listen
Joe, can I get a piece of that Spotify money?
Ask Peter he loves donating
Please help my lazy ass Joe. Yours Sincerely. Lazy Bob.
@@jaja5870 lol! Distribute the wealth. Lazy Bob needs some of that Spotify stock!!!
@@louisc2568 Yes indeed. I'm counting on Joe to not "leave me behind".
Joe Rogan: I'll talk on both sides to grow my audience and keep 'em guessing. Smart.
I actually think he’s not intentionally being “smart”, I believe that he is actually like a lot of us that want to learn and really understand the world. I appreciate the show because it truly tries to show us both sides of thinking.
Thats a healthy approach imo
That 80 year old war vet shoulda really just been more productive /s. Look, I agree with peter that socialism sucks, but certain groups are really vulnerable and you can’t hope that Zuckerberg is in a giving mood that day.
People hate capitalism because it takes real responsibility over your own life to achieve something.
Capitalism doesn't work for everything.. People hate it, because of how greedy it can be.. So you're telling me, its okay with you that big pharma cheats you with price gouging? Factories having their employees working inhumanely, and with shitty salaries.. Corporation need to be regulated, period..
Schiff is giving a lot of credit to rich people. I don’t know if they’re as charitable as he thinks they are
Exactly like how charitable and efficient the insurance industry is with clients. Digging and making up reasons to deny and kick people off plans that hurt their bottom line.
The Fire Department and welfare are both social services but there is one HUGE difference. The police, fire department, and in some aspects healthcare are not commodities that you wish to consume more of. Who the hell wants their house to burn down so they can use the fire department more. The same can be said about the police where we have seen the police show up to the victims house and shoot the victim while trying to help them. Now medical is a different beast. There are tons of elective procedures people do. Theres a lot of bullshit things see the doctor for as well. Sometimes in Canada you have people seeing multiple doctors for the same illness. My mom is like that, she would develop an opinion on what is wrong with her and she would seek out multiple doctors until someone confirms her bias. Shes the type that believes in Chinese voodoo medicine. So anyway. People aren't going to consume more fire services even if it was free. Welfare is a different beast all together.
Most countries have medical services split into essential and elective. Essential being covered by society as a whole and elective as a marketplace.
Private doctors still have hypochondriacs wasting their time.
Personally having moved from a country with a fully socialised healthcare system, to one with a mixed system, I have seen a lot more cosmic woo in the mixed system.
If Rogan can call Schiff to the podcast thrice now, he can actually call Richard Wolff to join the podcast
Marxist quack
Yup and Wolff actually has data to back up his economic stances. Unlike Schiff who pretends Europe doesn't exist while they have successfully implemented socialized healthcare and near free college for the last 50 years.
He is a joke
@@Behrwang tf you gonna do twat?🤣
Peter Schiff have no clue what he talking about
"They have to satisfy my disease" what an amazing Freudian slip.
Put a lefty on at the same time like vaush! See how his dumb arguments hold up
Fuck Yes have Vaush on JRE
Why does it have to be “dumb arguments”? Instead of get an opposing view on to have a healthy debate, inform the public and let the public interpret it as they see fit and let the dialogue continue!
That is what the founding Fathers had in mind in my opinion and I have a degrees in History and Political science and am able to listen to opposing views without getting my “feelings” hurt!
Vaush: the boy who cried fascist.
@@ogre8647 Those two things are mutually exclusive.
@@ogre8647 lol feelings! Look joe doesn't understand half the shit he is talking about, he knows it's wrong but can't debunk it. Where Vaush or Kyle K debunk these dumb arguments all the time, this A-hole cherry picks info with no references, then make up a narrative.
Wait so how is he voting for Bernie
I don't see how McDonald's workers can lift themselves out of poverty by 'being more productive and building capital'. Countries like Switzerland and Sweden may be capitalist, but their version of capitalism works. Sweden in particular has lots of social programs and very cheap/free education. When people say they want socialism, they mean they want to live in a country where people are not fucked over by the rich.
Cmon lets please be honest - You cannot compare those countries with the USA, its such a DISHONEST and UNFAIR comparison it really is, those countries have roughly 19 million people combined, the USA has that many ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, we have roughly 18 X more people than those countries with 350+ million people so thats a dishonest comparison . Lets keep it 100% real - People working at McDonalds should use that work as a stepping stone and try to bring more skillset to themselves, i admire anyone who works any job to better themselves but you also have bring a skillset as well.. You want to get mad at the "rich"? ok you should also be upset at politicians who put policies in place that ACTUALLY HURT people instead of pretending they help, stats clearly have shown this the case
I guess this dude has never heard of Canada. I guess it is hard to find on a map for Americans, all tucked away and small
You and Canada have no significance on the world
Joe Rogan is like the last of the Mohicans. There is a fine line he must walk to prevent getting silenced.
You cant silence Rogan....
They tried and failed thanks to Bernie campaign
He's a Republican stock broker, no shit he's critical of socialism. Also, if Sweden is capitalist, then let's adopt their universal health care plan.
He’s no where close to a republican, and the governments subsidies, patents, licensing restrictions against foreign doctors, etc. are what keeps big pharmas monopoly alive allowing them to price gauge. The government is the reason healthcare is so expensive, why would we give them more power over it
8:46 - "When you have a government program, that program exists to benefit the bureaucracy of the program. So they SQUANDER the money. And the last thing they want to do is end poverty because then there's no longer a need for their program. They want to perpetuate dependency."
Essentially: there is a conflict of interest when you delegate people to spend other people's money to solve a problem. You can only get it done the right way if you do it with your own money and you own capital which you earned and worked hard for yourself. Makes sense.