Did European Megalithic Culture Originate in Brittany?
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- Michael & Rupert discuss the recent work of Dr. Bettina Schulz Paulsson and resulting book and paper on the dating of European megalithic sites and how it points to origins in the North West of France.
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I know you Guys may not read this comment that is made so long after this video was made, but suddenly, as a Native American (with an English mum) who knows other Natives who easily navigated long distances-have you thought of this: high stones act as markers for long-distance travelers, in place of mountains, etc. In North America, there are many piles of rocks that can be seen over long distances, and presumably acted in place of our present mileage signs. I love your focus on practical reasons to explain the past. I cannot imagine that people in the past had extra time to fool around with imaginary supernatural stuff.
Hi Carole - we get to see all new comments, no matter how old the post. So yes - that's an important possibility to take into account. Of course the landscape has changed so much in most instances that line-of-sight is not immediately apparent to us.
@Carole Tomlinson - Absolutely. And, what amazes me is that people, across space and time, did similar things - rock art, mounds/barrows, "ritual" placements in mounds/barrows, stone architecture in the Mideast and American West, the creation of structures that are obvious from the air, but not the ground, and on and on. These imperatives seem intrinsic, not learned. But that is just me. The Prehistory Guys are great. Watch all you can when you can. I just discovered them a few months ago, so I am catching up, too. They spend time studying and sharing so that we regular folks can be better informed.
I agree entirely. A totally practical reason for them.
A traveller has the opportunity to get a "fix"on your position and perhaps an idea of who's territory your in.
That’s interesting, I never looked at it that way, but now I see the logic... thanks
Thanks for putting this replay on CZcams. 👍
I just watched the feature Standing with Stones and loved it . I had no idea that the stone structures were so widespread and so prolific. Living in Australia and having never been to Europe this is quite a revelation for me. I also love your matter off act and common sense commentary and knowledge of these sites. I am also surprised that so few people have subscribed to your channel.
Thanks Bradley! Glad you loved it!
There are standing stones (possibly a ring) and a number of dry laid stone structures in places as far away as New Zealand that are surprisingly similar to the ones found in Britain and the rest of the EU. Some of the neat stacks there also resemble ones still to be found along the northern east coast of the U.S. I'm not spoofing. I've seen footage of those things in connection with some ideas that seem somewhat nebulous. One cannot ignore the stones themselves, however. Stories of them have at times included sea faring people.
Just thought that I'd add a few grains to the gristmill.
Well, being that New Zealand was settled by extremely capable seafaring peoples, who knows what sort of cultural exchanges happened way back in the dark of prehistory? That said, there's an almost-obvious divinity in a circle--it's a shape and cycle mirrored everywhere in nature. Life, death, rebirth, the coming of the seasons and the tides--really, if you want a sort of "original" symbol, the circle seems like a pretty natural choice. Still so much to be learned!
Four years later, hello from the SF Bay Area! Thanks for your wonderful podcast, I'm just catching up since I only discovered you recently.
Thank you
What about Malta? All the underground chambers there look VERY old to me. Does it fit with the time scale you are dealing with?
Thank You 😀
Jadeite is sourced in Burma,Guatamela,Japan,Cuba ,Usa.
It came to Karnak through massive Egyptian overses trade
Maybe there was a contracting group of specialists that travelled and did all or most of the construction with local help.
One lecture I heard. 2021 said culture spread by sailors who traded, intermarried etc as the group's stopped, camped together assisted each other as they made the same living. Showed each other new technology. Foundsame pots tools etc all along coast from Mediterranean north. Different tribes of people
Very interesting, thanks
what amazing will be to see remainings of megaliths in the ancient atlantic coast down the sea where continental shelf is...
actually we know of submerged megaliths in the sicily channel.
we're missing a huge portion of the puzzle :(
Geraloine Stout archeologist and historian believes in the spread of art, religion, symbols, and trade via water travel. There are carbon copies of art from brittany, in Ireland at hnowth. Copy of the chamber of gravilese (apologies for wrong spelling). Genetic and cultural connections from Ireland to the serpent people of Portugal. You can even see the art quality improve as if you can see apprentices from Ireland, practicing on their way back home at various stops. Further illustrating an interconnected mesolithic and neolithic, is the oldest runes carved on wood are found in Portugal. They clearly dispersed northward from the Atlantic to the tribes of the Germanic people etc. Concerning extracting beliefs from the past, there are certain symbols believed by archeologists to represent an earth goddess like figure. This exact spiral design is imported into Ireland from brittany. In Scandinavia, the gods are divided into two families, the vanu, and the aesir. Academics think the vanu fertility gods(ess) are the pantheon of the hunter gatherers replaced by the indo European incomers, who brought the sky gods in the form of the aesir. It seems likely the indo European people included and adopted the hunter gatherers.
Over the thousands of years there must have been numerous megalithic cultures, just in Britain.
Oh, this gets addressed in response to Pavla's comment.
Even in one thousand years there must have been... Even at any one given time there must have been...
Interesting topic... But it takes forever for you guys to make your points
Sorry Jack, Rupert here, I shall bear that in mind...
@@ThePrehistoryGuys no don’t ! No words are wasted. It the questioning, discussion, extra details, context etc that make this so valuable. The “points” are the conversation - not a set of simple answers. Thank you for the fabulous content - in all its glorious time-taking ways.
You mention that Coldrum is the oldest Neolithic burial in England, but Yabsley 4230-3980 cal BC) is older.
Hi Steve, Yes, there are many older burials, Mesolithic and Neolithic, but Coldrum is the earliest Megalithic tomb and therefore the earliest known example of megalithic culture in Britain. The distinction is in Megilithic ad a culture as opposed to Neolithic as a period.
Has anyone estimated the total global tonnage of megalithic stones moved?
Please put in the comments the Swedish lady's name, the name of her book and the article
Bettina Schultz Paulsson is Swiss. She now lives in Sweden and works at the University of Gothenburg. The book is "Time and Stone, The Emergence and Development of Megaliths and Megalithic Societies in Europe". If you can find it on Archaeopress, you should be able to get it fairly cheaply in an online version. There is also a shorter paper: "Radiocarbon dates and Bayesian modeling support maritime diffusion model for megaliths in Europe" freely available at PNAS.
The Fox News article is here: www.foxnews.com/science/stonehenge-mystery-solved-prehistoric-sailors-may-have-been-responsible-for-legendary-structure
We did a podcast interview with Bettina and you'll find the CZcams version here: czcams.com/video/Aeu2LuC5DUo/video.html
@@ThePrehistoryGuys , your podcast became better as it went. You are one of the few diacussing this in detail. I found your interview with her. Despite the poor audio quality it is very interesting! Thanks guys!
@@JackAnna2024 No problem. Thanks Jack.
I suggest you look at the new CZcams this on gnomic history of the European area it covers this material also you'll find it interesting
The map seems to show the influence of areas close to the coast. What about the ancient Phoenicians and other traders.
Thanks!
Thanks so much Andrew!
Hello! I’m a big fan, and I’m fascinated with our shared interests. I’ve borrowed Standing with Stones twice from the public library here in Toronto and will again. I’m wondering how likely the accuracy of a theory might be that Brittany was the home of a colonizing force or something of an empire for several centuries in the early 5th millennium. It may be that the dates for similar megalithic structures to the southwest and southeast and in Britain and Ireland are too disparate, but I have in mind the engineering and technical feats involved in the erection of the grand menhir and the organization and the manpower involved and required. I also have in mind the lessons of history: George R R Martin in his books draws from history and the course of events in his books is more volatile and dynamic and messy as a result of human ambition and politics. So much of what I read about the spread of culture in this earliest period makes it seem to have been so organic and a bit haphazard. I hope that you’ll respond.
Hello, what about the necropolis of Barnenez in northern Brittany dated to at least 5800BC?
T's a delightfully non-linear progression. 🙂
Is there any data what major haplogroups were responsible for the diffusion of Dolmen Megalithic culture?
In Brittany France we've got plenty of megaliths aligned. When we went to Cornwall uk we realised there were similar megaliths in that area. Surely there was a purposeful place between them.
35,000 ! What?
Camera Rupert!!!
Hi Paul, not quite sure what you're saying but that one is a Canon 1Dx mk11. Best wishes, Rupert
You should post and explain your pictures of bugs and stones here or somewhere all could enjoy and buy your bug book...
Hi
Surely timber-based, ditch-based structures predate stone ones. I mean you'd build small first. Small timber churches predate stone cathedrals. The whole idea that everything spread from site X is predicated on the idea that building the first stone megalith = origin. The first gothic cathedral was not in Judea after all.
The question is: "Did megalithic culture originate in Brittany". So we're asking where monumental building in stone started - not what predated it. Of course timber houses and structures were being built way back into the Mesolithic. But building in stone in the early Neolithic marks a big shift and the question is valid, we think. Maybe you'd like to ask a question around this for the upcoming Q&A on Tues night? czcams.com/users/postUgz5D0NQwKGAS7UIT5J4AaABCQ
There is so much wrong with the idea that Brittany was the centre of the culture. To begin with, we are viewing megalithic Europe at great distance and it is easy to see patterns and similarities where there may well be none - as Rupert himself pointed out in Standing with Stones, if you viewed the archeological remains of a building from our culture in 5000 years time, it could have been anything. A megalithic tomb from Brittany and one from England may look similar but might have had extremely different approaches in their cultures. Setting this aside, there are other places that are far more suited to be the origin of the culture (if there was a uniform culture) such as Malta or Gobekli Tepe, or even Orkney. Gobekli Tepe in particular is way older than anything in western France and far more sophisticated. All the most elaborate centres of the culture are randomly scattered across Europe with links between countries being difficult to understand or accept - there are similarities between the Shetlands and Malta cultures for example, with nothing in between that is similar - there is nothing like the Maltese temples on Sicily for example, and yet there is on Orkney and the Shetlands. There are also similar megalithic cultures throughout the world at this time. One is left with the conclusion that many different cultures arose independently throughout Europe at slightly different times. To disregard belief systems is ridiculous - if the belief system is not the same they are obviously completely different cultures.
The presenters talk about accepting that UK megaliths are relatively sparse compared to those of Brittany, and we should accept the “culture” originates somewhere else. Why do we have to accept the culture originates somewhere else?? And even if we do, obviously it should be Turkey and not Brittany. (If you want to go with dates).
The presenters actually seem to be trying to avoid this issue - Gobekli Tepe is never discussed and one of them says we should challenge the idea that “everything good comes out of the East” 🤣🤣🤣
Well, that’s because with regard to ancient Western Europe, it always does, as even a rudimentary knowledge of archaeology will tell you. At least with prehistory the cultures are so primitive that you can probably say they arose all over Europe independently, as they did in the rest of the world. But Turkey is obviously the main cultural point in our region at this time.
Can you silence the man in the grey pullover ( on my left)
He gets my gorge to rise
Man in the grey pullover here. Anything in particular about me induces you to vomit? (Answer is 'no' by the way. There wouldn't be much of a conversation then, would there?) Oh, and the name's Michael.
Steady, Michael...you know that there is somebody somewhere that is annoyed by the most inoffensive of people..c'est la vie
Too chatty. Drink on your own time.