The Truth About Indulgences W/ Fr. Gregory Pine
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2024
- Fr. Pine explains indulgences, how they really remit punishment for sins, and how the topic sheds some light on the way grace and justice are received from God. For the rest of the discussion watch the full episode linked below.
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What a humble man.
"I know a little bit about it"
Then proceeds to give a thorough explanation of the matter.
:)
Thanks, Father Pine. Indulgences have always been an illusive subject and I can never seem to get a hold of them, but videos like this go a long way in furthering my understanding.
I am very interested in and actively trying to learn about Catholic theology. As a protestant, the idea of indulgences makes sense in a way but not in another. I believe strongly that we are to be conformed to the image of Christ. Such is the point of salvation, to made to be like Christ and thus one with God. So, indulgences as a means of actively purifying my soul makes sense. But on the other hand, it does seem to rob the cross of its power to me. In my protestant mind, Jesus' sacrifice alone "atones" for sin. I kind of get indulgences, but I think I need to wrestle with it some more.
What else prevents you from becoming Catholic?
The best answer I can give you is that the cross did atone for the sins of all mankind, but Christ's sacrifice did not rob us of our free will. Free will, combined with a just God, means that consequences must still exist for sin, even though the mercy of the cross is forever open to the penitent.
@@eugengolubic2186 Honestly, not much theologically. My family and I are very involved in our current church. I feel like we should honor our commitment there until God makes it plain to us that we need to move. Absent an act of God, my wife would never agree to consider becoming Catholic. She is comfortable with what she knows and isn't interested in anything else. If she came to me and said she was interested in becoming Catholic, I would consider it a work of God and be signing up for RCIA the next day.
@@timrichardson4018 generally, I wouldn't mind that much, but I'm telling you this because I care about you. If God established His Church in order for give her the fullness of truth and the means of salvation in sacraments, rejecting it would, in the end, mean rejecting God's salvation in the terms he is offering it. If someone loves their spouse or parents more than God, they are not worthy of God as Jesus says.
I'm not telling you to sign up for RCIA this or next day, but if something tells you that Catholicism might be right, keep learning and most important ls, pray. Anyway it's your life, U pray that you find the truth, wherever it may be. If you have any questions, I can't promise you to know the answer, but I'm here for you.
Think about this.
God bless!
Tim Richardson, remember that indulgences gain their power from Jesus' suffering on the cross. Indulgences are not INSTEAD OF the cross, they are CONDUITS of grace coming from the cross.
Great little talk
"Indulgences are for the remission of the temporal punishment for our sin." This is the very thing that so many Catholics deny in YT comment section discussions about purgatory. They say that purgatory is for purification/sanctification, not for punishment. This seems to fly in the face of that given that Indulgences were bought to shorten time in purgatory.
Thanks 😊. Will echo your conversation in my next class.
If you are having trouble with this and purgatory and struggle to understand that it is because God is merciful that purgatory exists. I suggest looking up in youtube Bishop Fulton Sheen speaking on purgatory and Father Mike from Asencion presents explain it better than I could. Fr. Mike also has a video on indulgence that is really good too.
Thanks, I've learnt a lot from your video. I've heard that " Pena" in Latin means "loss". In the Christian spiritual life it means that we lose the priceless joy of God's grace, and that really hurts. It doesn't mean that God intentionally inflicts discomfort on us.
9:06 “It’s not because of my lack of sin that I go to God with confidence. Even if I had committed the most vial sins imaginable, I would still be this confident. I’ve seen the way He spoke to Magdalene, I saw how He spoke to the woman caught in adultery. No, nothing can frighten me.” St. Therese of Lisieux [I’m not sure if Matt is paraphrasing here. If he isn’t, he knows the quote by heart. Either way, it's worth noting and quoting.]
Helpful. Amen
It's been quite some while that I've heard someone support the selling of indulgences. Where exactly is that in the Bible? If it's such a good and holy thing, why does the Church not still sell indulgences?
Isn't this just the process of growth toward God in your heart. And for the church to give you forgiveness of your sins, so too can the church recognise and give you healing in your character for full transformation towards God. So we are forgiven for our faults, but we are still being transformed.
Perfect contrition gives forgiveness directly from God and perfect indulgence without the churches part to play gives transformation and sanctification toward our final end. The doing away with our faulty character. And the church recognising this also has power to transform in a weakened effort towards transformation...
What about johann tetzel sells pitch this Seems like a financial transaction to shortcut purification in purgatory
Very helpful, but what makes no sense is how you can do an indulgence and it be applied to someone else. Can someone explain that???
I am usually good at defending the Catholic Church, but I forgot about this. I think I might have to join the Greek Orthodox Church
Rom 6: 23
I don’t know if this is recurrently discussed or has been at some point, but was the selling of indulgences in the Middle Ages wrong? Because one could considered that donating a large amount of money for the church as an act of charity after the recognition of ones sins is right
It is wrong and it was done for filthy lucres sake. I find this cover up of the selling of indulgences very frustrating. It was a vile practice in the days of the reformation and was blatant and widespread. it was not the only cause of the reformation, but was one of the big ones. it still goes on today. The idea of buying your way out of purgatory by "giving of alms", or paying for a Mass for the dead is still happening. Not only are you taking away from the Christ's full atonement and making his sacrifice of no effect, you're replacing it w/ your own works. The church is making merchandise out of fear of time in purgatory. The pope, w/ his keys to the kingdom, is dipping into the treasury of merit. This merit is the surplus of extra righteous saints, who have a storehouse of good works that can be sold back to you, or your family for time out of purgatory. They aren't explaining all that.
Buying forgiveness !! The church is corrupt IMHO because as long as they get $$$ indulgences “excuse” all that sin . IMHO “organized” religion is NOT what Jesus ever preached ….it plays into the “Prosperity Hospeks” which trump (the anti thesis of anyone/anything Jesus Christ ever preached )!!
Honest question: why isn’t Christ’s atonement sufficient for cleansing. Why do we need penance?
We need penance because we need to make up in our bodies what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ. See Colossians 1:24.
If I break someone's window, accidentally or on purpose, it is not enough to say "oops, I'm sorry". We must, even after repenting, pay for a new window. Doing penance for sin is like paying for the window.
George Penton but doesn’t that make Christ’s atonement insufficient?
George Penton also, where can I find some commentary of your interpretation of Colossians 1:24
@@mrhartley85 Christ's atonement IS insufficient. See Colossians 1:24.
Salvation is like free tuition at a college. Sure the tuition was paid by someone else, but the student must still work and study to graduate.
It seems kinda like asking “if my friend bought me a train ticket to New York, and I sit on my couch during the trains boarding period, why aren’t I in New York?”
The CZcams link is not correct
Comment for algorithm.
well this is about as clear as pea soup....no offense to Father but I still don't get it
there is a nice video by father Mike Schmitz , with the title being like "Did the Church really sold indulgencies ?", he really explained well. I think you should watch
@@gabriellegal4496 Father Mike Schmitz came from a revisionist Roman Catholic perspective, without any understanding of the history of the practice (especially in the medieval church). He explained it well only if you are looking to confirm a bias towards the Papacy.
If Christ has given 'the (catholic) church' authority? That is the question.
From an evangelical standpoint, indulgences sound like herasy. More than anything though it seems so convoluted and difficult to understand for the average lay person. Like when was any of Jesus’ teachings so long winded and filled with endlessly layered explanation? Maybe its me that is slow of understanding and this makes perfect sense to everyone else but this explanation pretty much flew over my head and didn’t elucidate anything for me.
Is it difficult to understand? Maybe. But that doesn’t make something right or wrong. You ask which of Jesus teachings are difficult to understand, well a lot of them are! That’s why even protestants like yourself have Bible colleges for pastors to go to to be able to understand them fully. 😁
It's convoluted because they are saying Christ's atonement wasn't enough, you need to do a bunch of things to earn your way out of sin, but they don't want to have to say that, because that might sound heretical. Also, you can pay your way out of purgatory as well. See the pope has the keys to the treasury of merit and he can sell you some. That is what was blatantly going on in Luther's day. It's denied and whitewashed now, but it still goes on to a degree. When you pay for a Mass for the dead, the idea is that you are lessening that dead person's time in purgatory w/ your gift of alms for this Mass.
And its a great way to raise some cash
Church outlawed the practice of selling indulgences
@@videonmode8649 Only after it was protested. It was completely normal within the church to help build St Peter's Basilica which is ironic because St. Peter rebuked Simon the Sorcerer for attempting to obtain the power of the Holy Spirit through financial means.
Where is pergatory in the Bible honest question
Jordan Hartley the books of Maccabees. Most non-Catholic and non-orthodox bibles don’t have them because they were removed at the Reformation. Catholic Answers has good explanations, you can look them up. ☺️
Purgatory is in the Bible at 2 Maccabees 12:43-46, Matthew 5:25-36, Luke 12:58-59, and 1 Corinthians 3:13-15.
@@kaylinvos4051 the books weren’t added to the catholic canon until The council of Trent which was a response to the reformation but It’s my understanding that these books Maccabees and such for not part of the Jewish Canon and if they’re not part of the Jewish canon than Jesus did not consider them scripture is certainly possible that he might’ve read these books but not consider them inspired writing.
@@Hissatsu5 The two books of maccabees were listed in both the Council of Rome (382 AD) and Council of Carthage (397 AD)’s list of canon biblical books. The Septuagint was widely used by Jesus’s time on earth and was often quoted by the apostles when writing the gospels and epistles. Nearly all of Jesus’s references to Old Testament passages were derived from the greek translation instead of the hebrew one
@@ahappynigerian your right about the The council of rome I will give you that but it seems the Jews didn’t consider the “extra books” divinely inspired that dose not mean they didn’t read them but it has been mentioned that the apocrypha in some places are antithetical to Jewish theology therefore didn’t have the same meaning to Jews or Jesus being Tora observant . Forgive me for not going into depth but my wifi is limited at my job I work a Night Shift .but you are right council.
I would love to hear him try to justify indulgences using the Bible. I can talk all day and make up crap too.
Apocalypse 10:6 exludes the purgatory. Augustine of Hippo (354-430) , bishop of Hippo Regius in Numidia and one of the most important Church Fathers of the Latin Church has declared: "Be not mistaken opon the fact that there will exist only two locations: the paradise for the dears and the hell for the sinners. - The purgartory has been introduced between 1170 and 1200. So any indulgences are dispensable and unnecessary.
Indulgences are not part of Byzantine Catholic theology...
They are a 'species' of a 'genus' what goes back to the apostles, they aren't a _necessary_ thing to live as a Christian. The Fathers taught that penances are given after confession. The fact that penances are given is the same kernel as indulgences.
But Christ today the thief on the cross TODAY, you will be with me in paradise. I just can’t seem to get on board with the purgatory thing, I don’t find it in scripture and I agree, it lessens and robs the cross of the power. The whole purpose of this life is sanctification…one degree of glory to the next, it seems cruel to suggest God would make us go through something else “cleaning” after this life. I believe scripture is clear that we will be reunited with Christ… 2 Corinthians 5:8 💜🙌
If you are having trouble with this and purgatory and struggle to understand that it is because God is merciful that purgatory exists. I suggest looking up in youtube Bishop Fulton Sheen speaking on purgatory and Father Mike from Asencion presents explain it better than I could. Fr. Mike also has a video on indulgence that is really good too.
Do you stop sinning once you get to purgatory? If it is purification by suffering, I can see a lot of people responding sinfully to the punishment which would then mean they have longer to spend in purgatory. Kinda cyclic thing that would never end.
Actually no one will "respond sinfully to the punishment' because the person will understand that the punishment is Just, and after, he will be cleaned of the stain of sin, and can enter heaven. Nothing unclean will enter heaven.
@@soniak2865 Don't we understand that punishment is just right now, on earth and yet we, at times, respond sinfully. I agree that nothing impure will enter heaven, just trying to understand if there is a teaching or an assumption that people stop sinning after they die.
@@petesnyder629 there is no more sinning after death. The choices before us are Hell or Heaven or Heaven by way of Purgatory.
@@soniak2865 is that what the church teaches? Where could I look it up? Or is it your opinion?
@@petesnyder629 I am fairly certain I heard it during a Catholic Answers broadcast within the last month. I am looking for it though! I believe Tim Staples answered your same question.
The spin from Catholic apologists is...."The Church didn't sell indulgences. People would just make a hefty donation to the Church, out of the kindness of their hearts...and the Church, totally unrelated to their donation, would GIVE them an indulgence as a gift, no strings attached."
Sounds like a politician explaining how taxes work
@@ninjason57 Except taxation shows a tangible result or should. Roads are built, water pipes constructed, or tanks are purchased and used to stop an aggressor country in Europe.
Catholic Bible in Acts……Do penance and be baptized not repent and be baptized.
Jesus said,”You shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall set you free.” Jesus came to redeem us from sins and to free us from bondages including these man made rituals and teachings that God never commanded. Repent, come to Jesus as your only Lord and Savior. Stop following men who will lead you astray from the way of Christ. Jesus never taught all these Catholics keep adding things they made up along the way.
Still unbiblical
The Bible is a Catholic book, written by Catholic authors and compiled by Catholic counsels. You, Mr Protestant have hijacked the Bible, diluted its meaning and changed content. Come home, and reject your so many falsehoods. Also, do you believe in the Trinity? The word Trinity isn’t found in the Bible. Christ left the world His Church to represent Him during His earthly absence.
It's talks like this that just reaffirm every reason I left the Catholic faith. Not a word on Christ in the whole preamble up to almost five minutes, and that by the host. Christ paid it all...it's why we don't have to pay.
Ummmm?? The host can say whatever he wants, its his video. Sorry you left the Catholic Faith.
Chris Preuss
Christ paid all... and how if we keep doing sin?
Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect .
Amen! Jesus' death is the atonement!
@@jakepur8263 Is it possible for us to be perfect? have you ever been perfect?
@@jakepur8263 My friend, Jesus is that full payment for sin...He is our holiness - Jesus fully satisfies the judgment against us for our offenses against a Holy God. God no longer sees our sin and instead sees the righteousness of His son, the perfect law-keeper (2 Cor 5:21). This is a glorious reality that should free us from guilt to fully devote ourselves to our Father, knowing we can boldly approach Him, wearing the righteousness of Christ. More to your question, please read Romans 7 and dear Saint Paul's lament on sin and holiness in this world. I think he explains all this beautifully. Romans 8:1-2 puts the exclamation point on it.Peace!
Indulgences are not biblical. Plain and simple.
With all respect brother, the question that converted Dr. Scott Hahn from decades of being Presbyterian was when one student humbly asked him “where in the Bible does it say sola scriptura?”
This was a man of great devotion and conviction and after truly seeking the answer to that question became a greater Christian and also a Catholic.
If Catholicism is not for you, I hope you can at least honestly look at that question yourself.
I don't think today's penitentiaries have the intented effect...