Cutting Open Pickleball Paddles | $5 vs $30 vs $220 vs $333
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
- Have you ever wondered what's actually inside paddles? Well, today I sacrificed some of my paddles so we can learn something about what makes them great.
Pickleball gear I'm using right now: linktr.ee/edjupickleball
Chapters
0:00 - Intro
0:53 - $5 Wood Paddle
1:21 - $30 Budget Paddle
3:38 - $220 CRBN 2X 16mm
5:26 - Close look at Thermoforming
6:27 - Delamination explained
7:51 - Cutting open the handle
10:03 - $333 Labs 006
11:39 - Close up of the Raw Carbon Fiber
13:20 - Taking off the edge guard
15:03 - Examining the inside
16:46 - Detaching the Surface
19:20 - My thoughts & theory
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Time Stamps:
0:00 - Intro
0:53 - $5 Wood Paddle
1:21 - $30 Budget Paddle
3:38 - $220 CRBN 2X 16mm
5:26 - Close look at Thermoforming
6:27 - Delamination explained
7:51 - Cutting open the handle
10:03 - $333 Labs 006
11:39 - Close up of the Raw Carbon Fiber
13:20 - Taking off the edge guard
15:03 - Examining the inside
16:46 - Detaching the Surface
19:20 - My thoughts & theory
Steve is not an example on how to safely work with appliances and tools. I flinch every time he grabs the chisel.
Hand down range of chisel
2:06 I'm my local paddle doctor, as word has gotten around that I'm handy with a dremmel and can reduce handle grip sizes down to customized smaller circumferences for people. So I'm very familiar with the internals of paddles. And those staples you found do not connect the handle to the face. They connect the butt cap to the handle. (At least in my experience). Also, unibody means that the entire carbon fiber surface (or whatever material - but typically this is thermoformed carbon fiber) goes all the way to the bottom of the handle. It doesn't end at the top of the handle.
My two cents. Ive taken a couple of paddles apart for destructive testing purposes. Forget about the wooden paddle that we all knew was just plywood. I’d guess that 80% at least of the paddles are made at the same one or two factories in China. That alone tells you a lot about differences between paddles. NOT MUCH. A $333 paddle is actually probably well under $100 cost to make at that Chinese factory. A friend of mine has been buying unbranded paddles from a Chinese distributor just to see how they play (every one of them he was charged less than $75 for) and I can say the fit and finish of these were exactly as good as the pricey paddles ppl are buying here in the states. So that tells me there is huge markup probably to cover all the marketing and distribution cost in the USA. No one should be paying $333 for a stinkin paddle. A $120 paddle is actually a $30 paddle strait from the Chinese factory
In agreement for the most part. The $333 paddle is a Selkirk, which from my understanding, are made in Idaho. Also more expensive because it's from Selkirk Labs...its like their research and development brand, paying that price comes with some extra benefits for partaking in their program.
Have you made any videos for your destructive testing? I would love to see which brands hold up! Thanks.
We only sell products with the same craftsmanship for $39.9, excluding shipping costs.
@@douglasnathaniel7759 I bet that the majority of the parts or materials are from China. More like assembled in the USA.
I spent numerous years in the laptop computer business in the early to late 2000.
The majority of laptops were built in China out four factories. Pi kleball paddles are o different.
Any change to the existing design requires chaneges to the production line and die casting.
Second, you have to pay upfront for a certain number of units.
Third, shipping, insurance, customs, delivery, stocking are all cost that have to be paid.
Fourth, adminstation and marketing cost.
These costsgets amoritized over your expected paddle quantity.
Last, figure in profit margin.
So, there are differences in paddle design and quality. Not all carbon fiber are the same. Not all honeycomb inerts are the same.
There's power vs control vs hybrid, etc. All this affects production cost.
If you want a standard run of the mill paddle, sure, they are a dime a dozen. You can buy those off of Amazon, Temu or Alibaba.
However, if you are competitive and want a paddle that fits your game, invest in one.
You can find quality paddles around the $100.
I bought two paddles from a factory in China. The paddles look the same as joola ben johns series except without a brand, and I spend less than $60 for 2 including transportation costs. I am not sure if the unbranded paddles have the same level of performance as the $250 one does, but personally I don't like the way it feels. I want to figure out if I just get what I pay for, or I got a really nice deal.
It’s not the weave of the carbon fiber. Those sheets are straight strands and the sheets are layered at 90° to each other. It is the texture of the peel ply embedded into the resin that creates the grit. There are probably 3 layers of carbon at 0°/90°/0°.
Wish you had a band saw for this.
Excellent work 👍🏼. The paddle review we've been waiting to see!
This needed to be done!!! Thank you.
Most if not almost all paddles will have the honeycomb...except the latest Gearbox. As such, once you get a hold on a Gearbox that's "done its duty", I would be most interested if you could cut that open.
Even earlier Gearboxes did not have a honeycomb core - as almost all of them use their "SST" carbon fiber columns. The new Power line just does it in a unique grid configuration instead of unidirectional columns of carbon fiber. The only exception to my knowledge is that GB2 that was a total flop, and maybe way earlier paddles.
Admire your intent but using the first 2 paddles didn’t tell us much. Would have liked to see a comparison between the CRBN, Selkirk and some of the 100.00 offerings like Hudef, Vatic, etc. but thanks for doing this.
How many of you got nervious seeing him attempt to chisel TOWARDS his other hand instead of away from it? You can tell he was never a boy scout
I had to turn away. I'm creeped out now just thinking about it.
That and bending the carbon surface toward his face…
Excelent video. Thanks.
Excellent video very interesting!!!!
I've bought Labs,Gearbox Ultimates, Perseus, Power Air - pretty much every dollar after $150 is marketing, i've ultimately landed on a Speed up 16mm, other things besides hype to consider in paddles 👀👀
Agreed. The price of some of these paddles is ridiculous lol. I don’t want to pay more than $150 for a paddle anymore. I bought a Hyperion 16MM CFS and a vatic prism flash 16MM
Very interesting. The paddles I'm interested to know are Selkirk Power Air Invikta, Vatic Pro V7 and Ronbus R3 Nova.
And the new Gearbox please 😊
PELLO, relatively new company out of Texas. High temperature, high pressure is said to be unique in the manufacturing. I love mine, came from Joola too paddle, had kinetic paddle, paddle tech, head.
Would have been sweet to see the Gearbox Pro cut in half like the others
Pickleball Central has a video where they show the inside of both configurations of the new Gearbox Power/Control and Elongated/Fusion. Very interesting. But also clear that they exaggerated their marketing sketches.
The Gearbox pro would be interesting. Also, Bread & Butters new paddle.
Good science here :D
I was so hoping to see a 5 dollar paddle inside the 300 dollar paddle orva few glued together
Have loved the CRBN since they started, it’s a great paddle. It’s all personal preference. If you’re a beginner, don’t spend more than $80 until you’re sure you’re addicted. Take some lessons. Learn correct technique. Then in 6 months reward yourself. But only buy a paddle with a 100% return policy so you get to try it on the courts for 30 days.
Unibody typically refers to having a band of carbon fiber that runs around the perimeter of the paddle and down the length of the grip. That band connects the paddle faces together and makes an overall stronger structure than simply having the polymer core sandwiched by faces only. Also, it is possible to have a unibody paddle that is not thermoformed. An example of this would be the Prism series paddles from Vatic.
And if you hit hard thermoformed paddles, because of all the heat used, have cores that don't last very long.
The extra $ for the Selkirk lab seems to be for the name "Selkirk"! LOL! Hey, somebody has to pay for all of their marketing, sponsoring most of the top players, etc!!!
Selkirk also gives massive discounts and supplies to a lot of communities and schools - in the US and abroad.
something i did notice is that the honey comb is thicker in selkirk than the other brands
Glad y'all were wearing goggles with those carbon needles flying!
Not to get picky… but that’s actually not what people are referring to when they talk about “delamination.” We used to think the extra power was coming from the face separating from the core. We now more accurately call it core corruption because we know the extra power was actually coming from the core itself crushing which was creating the springboard/ trampoline effect.
Glad to see this. Would have liked to see the inside of a Gearbox SST. You said "grit" is created by the weave. NOT so. Peel Ply creates the grit for spin. Also would liked to have seen more on peeling the face from the core. Some adhesives are better than others.
There are videos from Gearbox showing the classic, standard SST core. And a newer video from Pickleball Central showing the interior of the new Pro Line SST "grid".
@@LowDinksHijinxPickleball Ive pretty sure I've seen those vids, but actually "cutting" the Gearbox paddles open???
@@kimleith1378 Well they don't show the cutting process but they clearly show the insides after they cut.
Gotta do the Selkirk Air and Lux
Please cut the gearbox power pro lol
It looks like the honeycomb core of the CRBN is damaged from the thermoforming process and already looks like there’s core crushing going on. I wonder if this and the face being so thin are why it has more power (more flex and trampoline effect). Must be why there’s so many delaminated CRBNs. I would love to see other thermoformed paddles cut open as well to see how they compare!
Are you guys able to crush the cores at all? Is one softer than the other
I bought all the CRBN models. Never had a delam issue.
Soft and full?! From thermoformed and edge foam?
Just what i expected. They're all made of the same thing and have no differences whatsoever. Fantastic.
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. Maybe you're replying to some other video.
@@tomdillon6758 honeycomb polypropylene core. Nothing different.
this is madness to be cutting up perfectly good paddles when I don't even have one paddle.
I have 2 table tennis rubber/blade combo's that cost over $400.00.....the difference from a $150.00 set up is marginal at best un-less you are a professional player.
Speedup paddles and two Hudef paddles have unique handles compared to the market. I'm curious what kind of material they actually use.
What do you mean? In what way are they unique if you don't even know what the material is?
@edjupickleball Please do the Project 002. I am dying to know why that paddle is so poppy
You got it.
I would love to see the inside of a Pro Kennex Black Ace. Great video!!
This why im busting ass with a $10 amazon paddle lol
A moment of silence for the Labs 006 sacrifice. Maybe a Labs 002 next time? 😂
Ed. Why? One day I’m hoping to have a Selkirk paddle one day…
It's all mark up man, some of the materials are fancier than others but none cost all that much. Could sell the $300 one for $50 and still turn a nice profit.
get a prokennex cut up that should be interesting
shouldve included a $100 paddle lol
Players pickleball ! They have gel-core technology not heard of on other paddles! Supposedly good for tennis elbow. Same as Pro Kennex
could please do:ALW-12.7mm, DBD six zero and bread and butter 166mmm filth
You can't break any thermoformed paddle over your knee. It's not just the CRBN 2X.
You should cut open gearbox and pro kennex since both are not honeycomb.
I'm more concerned with the surface face of the paddles. The wear is very noticeable especially on the Selkirks Power Air, I have photos to prove it. Got small chips in 41 days of having it. $250 +tax.... ooof!
I'd really like to cut about an inch and a half off the handle of my Gearbox Pro Fusion Control paddle, but I am scared I will somehow ruin a very expensive paddle in doing so. Anyone tried anything similar? It's setup for a 2-handed backhand, which is not for me. I love the gearbox pro, but i find it a bit heavy. Only thing it lacks is good hand speed.
Pickleball Central has a video where they show the inside of both configurations of the new Gearbox Power/Control and Elongated/Fusion. Very interesting. But also clear that they exaggerated their marketing sketches.
@@LowDinksHijinxPickleballI saw that as well but when I looked close they cut it in half lengthwise , but were way off center. So a cut in half like Davis did would be good to see the carbon core tubes vs the polymer honeycomb core.
@@86309 Gearbox has another video where they cut one of their older SST paddles in the other orientation. That might be interesting for ya?
How about getting a materials expert who knows what they are talking about? The "cores" of the expensive paddles are probably nomex honeycomb, and various densities of foam are used for the handle and the edging. The splintering carbon fibres are probably pre-preg material.
Could you please send me the wood paddle so i can glue it back together and use it?
After that first minute i thought you were cutting open a power air.
Just FYI Shea Underwood already made a very similar video to this, just with elbow grease instead of power tools, and before the advent of thermoforming. I would post a link to it but CZcams blocked me from commenting last time I did that. Video is:
"Shea Underwood - Pickleball Road to Pro: What's inside of a pickleball paddle? (Joola Ben Johns Hyperion Teardown)"
Next time put some tape over the cutting area. Should prevent the splinters a bit
Good idea!
It is not called beehive...it is structural Honeycomb...
Delamination also happens from core crushing!
You are confusing delamination with disbonding.
Have Selkirk send Steve a 006… he deserves it
On it 🫡
Wow, just wow.
Weave of carbon fiber? My understanding is that sheets of carbon fiber are not woven and that the strands run in one direction.
Perhaps an understanding of peel ply and the manufacturing process would be helpfull information.
Thermo foam?
I also don't believe the edge gaurd serves as a seal. The thermoforming provides the seal.
Nice effort. Good try.
At least no one was seriously injured in the making of this video!
Haha yeah he gets a ton wrong, which I have no issue with - at least he's curious. But there is tons of readily available content already explaining all this stuff and with accurate info.
should cut at a 45 degree
Wonder how much manual labor goes into manufacturing these paddles.
They use giant machines to do all the word essentially. But there is a lot of manual labor moving the paddle from one machine to the next in the process (e.g. cutting out the paddle shape of honeycomb, applying the sandwhich faces, the peal ply, then depending on if it's thermoformed - they form the paddle into a unibody sealed shape under high heat and pressure - let cool, foam inject, the printer/etcher/lazer for the design, etc etc. The handles are probably the most manual part.
Wow you guys. Somebody is making a killing selling those because it costs $3-$5 to make those LOLs.
All paddles are unibody because of manufacturing process.
Needles like fibers fly out of the crbn, and the little skinny guy is scared.
SAFETY GLASSES !
so in conclusion, The paddles are all made in China And there's not much difference between them.
EDIT: my bad guys, when I mentioned “weave” I was mistaken. The “weave” that I refer to is actually the weaves of the fabric peel ply.
Here’s something that I found to help understand what peel ply does:
“peel ply helps to improve adhesion between layers of composite material. The textured surface created by the peel ply enables the resin to flow into the fabric’s weave, creating a stronger bond between the layers.”
medium.com/@nitprocomposites/what-is-peel-ply-carbon-fiber-83a205806402#:~:text=Peel%20ply%20is%20a%20thin,material%20during%20the%20layup%20process.
Tons I still am learning about the material science of paddles, so I appreciate the corrections
Tell me you don't watch JohnKew Pickleball without telling me you don't watch JohnKew PIckleball.
Faces detach hardly ever, cores fail on heated thermoformed paddles creating a trampoline effect. Thermoforming is a dumb way to try to make a more powerful paddle. Thats why these paddles have crappy warranties. The manufacturers know they won't last.
please wear safety gloves😮
Imagine not understanding how bad carbon fiber can be without using any PPE. Especially when cutting and feeling the fibers.
Oh well. Not my hands or health lmao.
And carbon is not biodegradable!!
GLOVES, carbon fiber splinters through the skin are not to be taken lightly .
The guy doing the cutting... no gloves, no safety goggle, no clamps. This was interesting but hard to watch. "They put a breadstick in the handle!" Well, everyone likes a snack, right?
These two idiots do not know you should use carbon fiber specific cutting blades.
I bet this safety expert forgot that there was still lead tape on the edge and tattooed lead right into his bloodstream directly with shards of lead needles.
he needs to wear gloves..
Total amateurs
Pretty pointless. You discovered the number of different materials increases with price point. Shrug. What do those materials do? How do they change the performance of the paddle? Does the ball come off one faster than another? Does one allow for more spin? Scientfic investigation requires posing a question and answering it. All you did was (somewhat unsafely) cut some paddles in half and giggle.
ALL HONEY COMB PADDLE ARE THE SAME - MADE IN SAME FACTORY IN CHINA AND REBRANDED
I wrote one of the top 10 most popular posts in the history of /r/pickleball about this subject, and while many paddles are made in the same few Chinese factories, there are more than 1.