Indonesia's High-Speed Rail Project: Messed Up Diplomatic Triangle
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- čas přidán 19. 02. 2021
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- Today's topic was one of the most requested by our viewers so far: an interesting, mega railway project, which is currently under contruction - Jakarta-Bandung High-Speed Railway Line in Indonesia.
It is a high-speed rail line in the length of 142,3 km (88,4 mi), that will connect Indonesia’s capital Jakarta with Bandung, one of the major industrial hubs in this country.
In addition to its complexity, this project is super interesting due to the fact it represents another amazing example of how geopolitics influence the railways and the example of competition game between two Asian powerhouses - China and Japan. In this case, over the greater strategic influence in the region of Asia-Pacific.
For the construction, management, future daily operation and maintenance of Jakarta-Bandung high-speed rail line, the joint venture Kereta Cepat Indonesia China (KCIC) was formed, consisting of Chinese and Indonesian consortiums.
On October 16th 2015, Chinese and Indonesian companies that are part of these consortiums officially signed a deal to proceed with the construction. The project was estimated at $5.5 billion, while China Development Bank (CDB) gave a commitment to fund 75% of this amount, with the loan on the period of 40 years, while the rest will be secured by the joint venture partners.
As Indonesian government was not required to provide any financing, in accordance with the agreement, it will take over the ownership of the line and all the assets only at the end of the 50-year period.
This project is marked as a turning point in the modernization of the Indonesian public transportation system, and it serve four main stations (Jakarta, Karawang, Walini and Bandung), with the trains running at 350 kmh, cutting the travel times beetween the two cities from 3 hours to 40 min.
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#Railways #Indonesia #Trains
If you are living in Indonesia and goes to wet market
You will often found a mother bargain but still not satisfied then saying "I'll be back" But instead going to other sellers that give better deal then try to bargain again to the 1st seller so it comes with better price
That method still being used and surprising works well.
Wont work for me when I am the seller. Hehe
Yeah they are looking for better deal and cheaper price as possible
Those Indonesian who favour Japan, look at the India HSR and think. Recently Japan quoted Taiwan for USD 166 million for one train with 10 coaches. Taiwan ask for 12 trains. So total nearly 2000 million USD. Can Indonesia railway pay that much for 12 trains?
For Japan HSR price, a cheap HSR ticket from Jakarta to Surabaya, 700 km will cost about 19000 yen or 2500000 rupiah, is this price ok for Indonesia??
Moreover, Japan will take a very long time to build, so wait at least ten years
@@sc5252 nope, that amount of money I believe is the median salary for us per month
@@sc5252 if i can reach from jakarta to surabaya in under 30 mins then yeah.i think its worth to spent
Wishing this project may bring more prosperity to Indonesia. Wishing all Indonesians all the best for this project from India 🇮🇳
@Question Everything why my friend? Can you explain breifly? So it will update my knowledge about the project.
Thanks for you from jakarta.
GBU also.
@@mohamadisa8879 didn't understand GBU. Sorry.
@Question Everything Here are a lot of money suckers aka corruptor aka bitch3s. If there's a big project, there's a big chance for them to stole money.
@@MohammedFurqon the project are continuing smoothly and now 60% finish, current administration manage to build a lot of infratructure in such a short time
Indonesian HSR is ready to open to public this summer. Congratulations.
As a native Jakartan, I fully support the high-speed rail projects that can help my friends and co-workers get to their native cities quickly and efficiently. It will also help ease the overpopulation of Jakarta when people can get from city to city more quickly. This project is long overdue imho.
Connectivity is the key for economic development. Indonesia will see success soon. China is truly the king of win-win development. Many low intelligence will say china is looting. Thats absurd. The smart people that knows how to capitalized chinese opportunity will end up being the richest man on earth. Ask Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk.
Yes, this trains can make many people moving fast between two cities because our existing railway cannot afford more faster speed
Sukses kepada indonesia🙏🏻
@@blardymunggas6884 u guys know Chinese trains tend to be broken easily and still chose the cheap option for money. Welp good luck n don't ask any help from Japan
@@blardymunggas6884 ever heard of the Chinese Debt Trap and the other countries that fell for it? Yeah, no.
And all of this will be done before California finally finishes his high speed rail. Mark my words
If you bet 1 million dollars, you'd get 1 million dollars and 7 cents for a winning bet.
His?
Yes.. the construction is 70% completed now..
@@EastofVictoriaPark haha, maybe even less 😁
@@mirzaahmed6589 his as in the state of California
Thank you so much for this. FInally, as an Indonesian, i can understand the situation much better.
For real, almost no one even mention anything about this project anymore, like bruh how.
@@nabieladrian orang kalo denger kata cina langsung panik bro
@@nabieladrian But the project is still running tho
No worries about the profits of the railway road. When it's connected, the economic and lifestyle will definitely improve for Indonesians. That's the reason why Japan also invested in high speed railway themselves. God bless the Indonesians, from Singapore.
@@FengLengshun bro, it is proven transport will definitely bring up the economy for the entire region. That is also why my country Singapore invested so heavily in subway trains and upgrade our bus system. You need time to see all these advantages.
Also, those news about Muslims being exploited are all FAKE news, many videos or pictures from western medias are taken from Afghanistan or Syria. Some even twisted the contents which where proven by thousands of journalists around the world.
In UN Congress, more then 80 countries supported China and 95% of the Muslim country leaders went to China and investigated. Zero abuse were found including those terrorists who are caught and jailed. Today only 11 out of 140 countries in the UN claimed Muslim abuse in China, they refused to visit China despite being invited by China. I am from Singapore, our ministers and Muslim leaders went in 2018 and again they went last week.
Also, I had many Muslims friends and colleagues went Xinjiang for tour in 2019. There are mosques everywhere and you can see hundreds of Muslims praying in those mosques. China has 35000 mosques and Xinjiang alone has more then 20000 mosques. You can go anywhere to take a look yourself. You won't get stopped from taking photos anywhere there. Don't get scammed by fake news from the west. That's what they did to Iraq and Serbia before.
Terima Kasih, Energy Of Asia : Onward ASEAN 🇲🇨🇸🇬🇲🇾🇧🇳🇹🇭🇻🇳🇲🇲🇱🇦🇰🇭🇵🇭 x 🇨🇳🇯🇵🇰🇷
@@sahabatzenius3714 Hey I know Myanmar is in ASEAN but I thought the country is in South Asia
@@FengLengshun The 2nd class ticket cost according to official news is around 230k. For me it's actually not that expensive for 143 Km journey. I think average middle class Indonesian can afford it. If you want comparison, take a look at Argo Parahyangan priority class. The ticket cost around 290k. It's 60k more expensive than HSR 2nd Class which is good enough. So it's basically riding on Priority class but 4 times faster. Also if you want to compare it with Airlines, ticket from Jakarta to Jogja is about 1.2 Million IDR which is hella expensive. When the HSR already connected to Jogja, my prediction is that the ticket price will be around 600k to 700k which is 500k less than airline.
As for inner city transportation you're right. Public transportation system in Indonesia is a joke. Bandung doesn't even have any light rail system. The bus system also not that good compared to Jakarta. But in Indonesia there is Online Transportation you know? Most people use online transportation after boarded Plane or Train when they reach the destination.
True,The history of MRT Singapore and even Shenzhen is testament to this fact.
Some additional information about this project
1. The plan are actually had been concept as far as 2006, finalized in 2009. JICA was tasked by the government to make plan document and feasibility study.
2. Joko Widodo predecessor, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono make target to start this project 2014, but stalled by economy stagnation
3. When Joko Widodo elected in 2014, he was doubt the beneficiary of this project and also how expansive this project. But there's also some people who urged to build this high speed railway due to traffic congestion in highway and the existing railway are too expansive too be upgraded due to geographic issue.
3. So it's decide to build the high speed railway but didn't use state fund, instead it's purely B2B business concept. Japan still want state fund guarantee but China step up the bargain and willing to use B2B concept for funding. So China win.
4. The reason why using B2B because government doesn't want to use single dime to fund this project. Most of dime in infrastructure is being used for build highway, water reservoir, irrigation, port, airport, and upgrade existing railway.
5. While Japan know for high quality of infrastructure, it highly criticize for not doing transfer technology, high maintenance cost, and slow building process (MRT Jakarta is the example). China willingness to share technology become plus point of this bidding.
6. The bidding process actually repeated due to government want to B2B concept.
7. KCIC is JV company, where 60% owned by JV Indonesia state company, the rest come from JV China company.
8. In Indonesia law, subsidiaries company or JV company from state owned company are treated as private company. Therefore Indonesia consortium in this project is actually private company. They also not get state funding.
Actually China didn't develop HSR technology.
It was technology theft from Japan.
That's why they can make it cheaper because they didn't spend on Developing the tech.
Thanks
.
,
in the end, it still uses the state fund anyway
Wow even as indonesia citizen i still lack information of this railway. Cause our country media tv seem to love more tiktokers and other useless thing to be show on their media
i dont watch national tv. but i know about this already from articles online
There are lots of news about this from your local media both on tv or youtube. Where were you ?
I dont watch national tv unless for the news
no...
your recommendation base on what you watch...
if your recommendation is tiktokers, so u like watch tiktok lol...
@@panjipewe he said "tv media" not his youtube homepage, read first before commenting
A very beautiful country.
The world is a better place when indonesia moves forward. The language is so nice to hear, like music to my ears.
As an Indonesian, Thank you so much for the nice words
Die sebenernya ngejek 😑
@@kaharsyah274 G boleh su uzon gan:v Dosa :)
@@kaharsyah274 Ya gtau sih :)..................
Indonesia negri yg penuh cinta damai
Just so you know, the construction is completed and will be open in August. So, the one who cooperates with Japan, where's your train now?😂😂😂
Tbf, in exchange, Japan got the Jakarta MRT project.
Do bare in mind that Java island is the most populated island on the planet with over 141 million people(more than half of Indonesian total population), the size of Java island is almost the same with England(Scotland and Wales excluded) but filled with more than twice the number of people in it.
Java island is also the center of political and economic activity of the country but having a poor infrastructure, especially transportation connection between cities.
So this high speed train project for the long run is much needed in the island to connect the biggest city in the east side of the island to the biggest city on the west side of the island.
but urban transportation is still really lacking though, although Halim station will have a BRT system and an integrated LRT station, Tegalluar on the other hand has almost nothing, it kinda sucks that a city like bandung has no reliable transportation system
@@hilmyzulfikar9243 There are reasons why the HSR station in Bandung will be located quite far from downtown of the city.
1. Land
Bandung simply has no land left for the construction of a such massive station. If they insisted to build the station somehwere downtown, they would have to build HSR tunnel which means more money.
2. TOD
I have seen the rendering of the stations and there will be new massive business, residential, commercial as well as industrial around the stations.
but yes, you're absolutely right Bandung has no reliable transport system. I hope the government at least built BRT system connecting downtown the the HSR station
"England(Scotland and Wales excluded)" are not part of England...
Jokowi: Hold my *Infrastructure*
@@manuel6273 Tegalluar will be connected by main railways and the main railways will get electrified. The first phase is double track Kiaracondong to Cicalengka. Tegaluar will be connected from Cimekar station
Indonesian who live in Bandung here. To be honest, I never heard of such plan to continue the Jakarta - Bandung HSR eastward using the southern route. Compare with the northern route, the southern route should be many times more expensive due its mountainous features. The most economically feasible route should be using the northern one although it might be slightly bend southward in Semarang toward Solo and Yogyakarta presumably using the similar route as the trans-Java Highway network. You might want to take a look on that.
Even though it needs to skip Jogja-Solo (which is not only urban centers but also very famous tourist destination), I think going along the north coast would still be enormously profitable. The northern cities like Cirebon and Semarang alone boast 1 and 3 million inhabitants, respectively. They can just simply cooperate with the state railway company (KAI) to launch a shuttle service from Semarang to Jogja and Solo for the HSR passengers.
@@lontongstroong considering Jogja and Solo are connected with commuter line, it should not a problem if they construct HSR Station in Solo.
@@lontongstroong Not to sure if the future HSR line will be skipping Solo alltogether. Indeed Yogya might be skipped due to its proximity from Solo and the fact that this year the line from there to Solo is just electrified. Yet skipping Solo and taking direct easterly route from Semarang means skipping to considerable size cities like Solo, Madiun and other towns of considerable size along the Bengawan Solo River, the traditional easterly route from Central Java. Compare to that a direct easterly route to Semarang to Surabaya will only traversing Scarcely populated area except maybe for Cepu or Bojonegoro....
@@adrianusramon5833 The problem is that if it's going to go to Jogja-Solo through Bandung, it has to deal with hundreds of miles of the most geologically-active stretch of land on the planet. The construction cost (especially tunneling) must be enormous and that's the thing the govt in near future can't afford. It would simply even not worth it. Furthermore, despite having some parts that relatively sparse, the northern course would still traverse a lot of well-populated urban centers especially those west of Semarang. The plausible way to serve Jogja-Solo in long-term is perhaps simply build another HSR branch from Semarang down south to either Jogja or Solo (or both).
@@lontongstroong indeed the only feasible route for connecting Yogya-Solo to the HSR should be a HSR branch line jutting southward from Semarang... A direct route from Bandung to Jogja would be way too expensive....
Indonesia amat bercita cita tinggi dlm menyiapkan project HSR ini... Bukan mimpi... Bukan drama sinetron.... hebat skali...
Are u Malaysian?👍
Hehehe apakah di Malaysia projects HSR KL to Singapore akan jadi di bina bro..,😊🤗😁😄
Lalu setelah pindah ibukota, keturunannya melanjutkan "proyek" hsr di kalimantan
Drama malaysia emang hebat
there are 7 big island in Indonesia yet only java and Sumatra got train and good freeway, Hebat Sekali Indonesia
For any western countries
if you care about Indonesia, why don't you help us with infrastructure instead, antagonising China will not make you a hero.
True
👍
To be honest, us Americans and other westerners are not the best at building infrastructure in our own countries.
Well, you can't expect them to be like china, they are even way slower than us indonesians at building infrastructure, let's take berlin airport in germany for example, with the capacity around 35 million passangers annually, they took around 14 years to complete, and here we build YIA airport with around 20millions passangers capacity in less than 2 years lmao, we even open the airport in just 1 year after groundbreaking for minimum usage lol
Just remember unlike other developing countries, we build our own infrastructure, it's just we took loan from other countries or from investor to finish it, but just for some high tech infrastructure like HSR that we need help from foreign engineers, other than that we build it ourselves.
Indonesia receives more than enough foreign funding. How about you ask your billionaires and millionaires to stop hiding their money in Singapore and start paying domestic taxes? So many Indonesians do not declare income or pay income tax either. Help yourself for once.
I think the ticket price of 35 US$ from Bandung to Jakarta is too high and many traveller will use the bus or the travel minibus. After 22 years living in Bandung l mostly use the Trans Travel what was very cheap and convenient. 7 US$ in 2017 from Bandung to Soekarno Hatta airport. I left Indonesia 2017 after a wonderful time and now l am retired in another beautiful SEA country The Philippines.... Good luck Indonesia ❤️👍
what are you doing in Indonesia? How long you've been there?
Its more expensive price because you can go to Bandung or Jakarta faster, the eficient of time is more higher
Yup, I got MORE cheaper travel only 3,5 dollars 💵 Jakarta-bandung and only 3 hours if you go from early morning. I don’t know this ticket 🎫 will be visible in Indonesian markets, I think 🤔 only indonesia 🇮🇩 with wealthier economies will through
INDONESIA will be BROKEN or DIVERGENTED
The majority of NKRI policies made so far have adopted elements of COLONIALISM and NEPOTISM.
Whatever the PARTY, whatever the ORMAS, whoever the FIGURE of the organization,
USEFUL because they are all DOLLS under the INFLUENCE and INTERVENTION of the oligarchs or the JAVA NATION POLITICAL ELITE.
If we were more careful
Those who do not want the PAPUA nation, the BORNEO nation, and the ACEH nation to be FREE
only the JAVA nation.
The BHINEKA TUNGGAL IKA is a TAMENG for JAVA opportunists who are greedy and greedy from the "SETTLER COLONIALISM" activity.
now and in the future,
sufficient for the nation in each ISLAND is DESINTEGRATION and BERDAULAT aka MERDEKA,
Why is there DESINTEGRATION?
because of INDEPENDENCE,
is the RIGHT of every nation,
whether he is the nation of PAPUA, the nation of ACEH, the nation of BORNEO,
Malay Nation, MALUKU nation and other nations.
The formulation of the UUD by the aristocrats in the past stated "INDEPENDENCE is the RIGHT of all nations" in order to protect the nations that exist in NUSANTARA in the event of a PARTY abuse of power by a group or community.
Since it was built, NKRI was only for the benefit of the JAVA nation and CHINA PLUTOCRATION
NON-JAVA Nation
Intentionally led in a SYSTEMIC manner so as not to maximize
Potential natural resources and human resources in their respective regions,
In order to remain AWFUL and POOR and not mastering KNOWLEDGE / TECHNOLOGY.
we NON-JAVA nation are not HERO
If the MONEY IS PRINTED with FOREIGN DEBT,
but only used to build MODERN EDUCATION INFRASTRUCTURE centralized in JAVA.
we NON-JAVA nation are not HERO
If INVESTORS (CAPITAL) are invited
then led only to build MANUFACTURING (INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION and PROCESSING ACTIVITIES)
centralized in JAVA.
we are NON-JAVA, not HERO
Because they are OLIGARKIES IN JAVA
And CHINA PLUTOCRACY does not want NON-JAVA NATIONS EDUCATED and PRODUCTIVE.
The NON-JAVA nation will not be able to go fast,
Being involved in bearing the burden of ECONOMIC, SOCIAL and POLITICAL failure,
as well as the explosion of the POPULATION that is from JAVA.
Not ONE CONTINENT and not ONE LAND
each ISLAND has its own NATION
and have their respective sovereignty.
Seize ORIGINAL PRIBUMI NATIONALISM,
And don't make room for JAVA OLIGARCHES and FOREIGN PLUTOCRACIES Deceptive anymore.
JAWASENTRIS NEPOTISM as well
CHINA COMMUNIST COLLUSION
in the current system of the UNITY OF BOHONGAN,
will only nourish the spirit of DESINTEGRATION and prolonged SEPARATISM,
and it's unstoppable,
Just waiting time,
fast or slow
there is no more national empathy in Nusantara to join JAVA,
Because of the government in JAVA,
It's nothing but a NECKLACE and a LICKET.
Full of LIE, NEPOTISM, and FEODALIS,
All layers of the nation in every region immediately realize this FACT even though JAWANESIA MEDIA tries to distort it,
# FREEWESTPAPUA2021
#FREESULAWESI
#FREEBORNEO
#FREESUMATRA
# DISCONTINUE THE REPUBLIC OF INDONESIA
# LEAVEJAWANESIA
@@federasiborneo9348
NATO (No Action Talk Only)
👎👎🤣🤣🤣👎👎
RE: *Economic and Viability Risk* -> High-speed trains usually have higher occupancy rates than regular trains, which “are on average 35 % full. Data point: High speed trains in France currently enjoy 80% occupancy”
Data point: At the time the Korean high-speed line opened in 2010, the average number of passengers was 72,000 per day, but this has now doubled to approximately 162,000 in just 10 years. The expectation is this will double again within 8 years.
Data point: Morocco’s high-speed train (Al Boraq) has been in operation for less than 2 years, and already is at 68% occupancy. Morocco just announced the purchase of more trainsets.
High speed rail - when executed correctly - changes everything for a Country. Morocco now sees 160 fewer car accidents between Tangiers and Casablanca. More high(er) net worth individuals will consider relocating themselves and their operations to Nations with modern transportation infrastructure. Workers can live further out from the City Centers, which creates less City traffic and pollution. Companies will employ more as labor cost may be reduced.
I see no long term downside risk for Indonesia regarding this investment.
BTW, this is one of the better presentations I have seen, great job!
You still gotta distribute the passengers among the cities. So if the transit connections to the HSR-line are poor, you're gonna run into some issues.
Of course they have higher occupancy, high speed rail routes are between major cities. A high speed rail route between small settlements with many stops would have lower occupancy than a regular train due to the ticket a price and negligible time saved.
@@edwardhobbs5214 I meant the traffic within cities. If you can't distribute the passengers within the city, you'll end up with a lot less passengers. Source: Transportfever - Europe Campaign - Tgv Mission
@@thomaspriewasser6660 I was responding to the comment about directly comparing occupancy rates between HST and regular trains. I regards to your comment though; I think what is often missing from conversations about transport is the stress level of using the system. I want to use trains not because of how fast they are but because i don't have to go through the stress of an airport.
@@thomaspriewasser6660 Excellent commentary. This is why I included "when executed correctly" in my OP. HSR by itself is likely a waste of resources. It _Must_ be part of a fully integrated suite of *Long Term,* coordinated Urban planning. Much like a Office building development: think of the Petronas Towers in KL Malaysia. When completed in 2004, there was almost no other retail/office/industrial development around it for 10's of Kilometers. Today, just 17 years later, one would have a hard time recognizing the Petronas Towers in the KL skyline - as so much new development has occurred around it (population gravitating towards the infrastructure over time).
I will quote a 2020 Urban Planning impact study that revolves around HSR:
"With respect to the aspects of sustainable development systems thinking on HSR services,
the *_efficient planning_* of HSR services can genuinely *generate invaluable outcomes* for other social,
economic and environmental impacts, as follows:
- Social impacts: reducing travel time between two cities, increasing the accessibility of attractions
in the city, reducing the public transportation cost, allowing companies to hire specific labourers
and trade in particular goods;
- Economic impacts: increasing the economic via the transport and the logistic system (both domestic
and international), immediately transferring products from the suburban areas, reducing shipping
costs in the country as there is an alternative mode of transportation;
- Environmental impacts: reducing the amount of CO2 emissions in the air, reducing the amount
of land use compared with the road and highway."
It's important to note that this study looked at two select cities in China, which didn't benefit much from HSR for those locations. However:
"The finding is different from other HSR networks around the world. For example,
the Shinkansen network has a considerable impact on the prefecture land price and the growth of Sustainability population. In addition, it has enabled various benefits for Japanese life. The Shinkansen connection can reduce the land price by 33% within the same year, as its services can support Japan in becoming decentralised. In France, another case study showed that the land price was found to be increased
by around 2.18% compared to the average in the area due to the TGV service"
In a rapidly developing economy, such as Indonesia, infrastructure investment must be organized around a comprehensive long-term strategy. The population will gravitate _towards_ the infrastructure, not the other way around. Thus in theory, Urban planning seeks to attract production (labor) into efficient areas/hubs of manufacturing and services. Transportation infrastructure is critical.
If you have the time and inclination, the 2020 research paper cited above may be worth the read:
www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/12/7/3012/pdf
1 person did not like the idea of travel time being cut from 3 hours to 40 minutes.
3 hour from JKT to bandung is nonsense, it takes at least 4 hour
Currently the fastest Rail services between Jakarta and Bandung is 2hours 50minutes by Argo Parahyangan excellence train servis
because the tickets sold are not subsidized by the government like in your country, the ticket prices will be as expensive as in Japan
only for the rich, this is also against the principles of communism in China
@@andrewj3177 3 and a half to be honest. I've done Jakarta-Bandung travel via Argo Parahyangan like... dozens of times.
From 3 hours to 40 mins really nothing much
Not worth the investment
You cannot judge the return of an infrastructure like this by merely looking at the income from ticket price. More often than not the ease of access and the convenience provided by such transport will release the hidden value of the land properties and communities along both sides of tracks. This has always been the motto of Chinese government when building infrastructure like this and proven workable.
Agree!
Indonesia alsp not stupid about this decission ( there is technology transferring between )
Beside, Japan too much acting for buiness and unfairly they are ( Japan ) more familiar to keep close buisness in ASEAN by choosing Thailand than Indonesia?
So SMART DECISSION AGAINST SMART DECISSION.
@@khairilanwar6931 regardless the reason why the government chose china over Japan doesn't even apply anymore because we know eventually the government still have to pay for this project
@@khairilanwar6931 are you JOKING ??? chinese cant be trust this project now out of fund .... chinese ask indonesian government to fund this project otherwise it will stop .... useless project even bep is 138 years ... in the end this project only burn indonesian people money
@@tomtomblos2909 you sound like another China hater who will condemn anything China. Compared to US, China is much more reliable in terms of honoring agreements. Can you name one agreement China retracted? While US goes round the world dishonoring agreements by potus. What hypocrite.
Hes pronounciation of "kereta cepat" is not that bad quiet good actually, was surprised.
Maybe because he is not native English speaker.
Wkwkkw
Hutang dengan China nanti bawa susah
@@vikneswaranradah1533 hutang ke IMF, WORLD BANK lebih berbahaya Dan mematikan dibandingkan dengan china.
@@preddysaragih3034 wrong. Hutang dgn China lagi bahaya. Tengok Sri Lanka
Most of the problems you said that may happen are also problems that people speculated would happened when China built its first HSR.
remember when CNN said nobody will use HSR because it's too expensive ticket..
but when Chinese GDP grows due to HSR then it's less and less expensive ticket..
@@lvjinbin28 You trust CNN?
@@lvjinbin28 CNN? lol
@@adiba9734 sekarang bunuh emitten nikel 🤣
@@lvjinbin28 Joke: CNN & BBC
tech transfer to be able to produce your own replacement parts seem to be a deal breaker in a lot of cases, if you go with japan the maintenance parts are priced thru the roof because they are all made in japan.
The Chinese one is more expensive but the tech transfer was included which was the real deal maker.
Japan doesn't like tech transfer, because when they did it with China, it ended up making China their biggest competitor in high speed rail.
It makes sense but I guess Japan has realised they need to change their dealing stance as they recently signed an MOU for shinkansen tech transfer with India.
@@sohambandyopadhyay8378 right. They only can make deal with Taiwan for this long experience, I guess the deal they create not competitive compare China.
@@AhmadFauzi-mw4gq chinese offer is more competitive as chinese engineers and construction companies also actively help in the civil and mechanical work. In Japan's case they usually train the local companies and and now the deal specifies that after 1st railway line operates the tech will will be transferred making the process slower.
Love this explanation! While in our own media, it is usually fueled by hatred or too highly opiniated without seeing the actual fact.
I really am hoping the best for Indonesians, now is the time for Indonesia claim its rightful place on the world map. I'm a Filipino. We are also experiencing tremendous success in infrastructure growth due to excellence in leadership 👏
Metro Manila Subway, North South Commuter Railway and New Manila International Airport. So excited for MEGA Manila.
Hopefully Mindanao Railway will push through.
I've studied Japanese Literature in college, since the news broke about my country sign a deal with China regarding high speed rail, one of my professor always brings this stuff up EVERY SINGLE CLASS until me and my mates knew when he's going to rant about it. His salt is real
Wah sabar bro
Asia timur rasis sih
@@mohamadrafli_perlengkapan3247 rasis bapaklu. Gak salah lah kalo mereka merasa dikhianati.
@@mohamadrafli_perlengkapan3247 Asia timur rasis
Pake nama orang jepang
Oh sungguh ironis
@@andrewfoy4737 lah? Fakta wkkwwk Asia timur emang yang paling rasis bahkan mereka masuk 3 besar rasisme dunia.
@@andrewfoy4737 Ini bisnis
Dalam bisnis gak ada kata teman! Bisnis ya bisnis mau udah Deket banget kek tapi kalo ada yang lebih diuntungkan ya buat apa pilih teman? Broool sadar ini bisniss antar negara bukan kek elu ngutang di warteg
There's one crucial points that isn't explained enough that probably fixed the deal with the China rather than Japan. It's the transfer of technology. What it means:
- Indonesia can make their own parts production, instead of importing them
- Research and development didn't have to rely on anyone
- Cheaper maintenance and service
All of that creates more job opportunities, which in turn create more profit for Indonesia. And by doing it in business instead of government backup, the risks is fully held by the investor, not the country itself.
Japan did the other way around, only increasing the number of imported parts, dependable on maintenance, and if there's development, Indonesia would have to pay to acquires it. Don't get me wrong, I bet Indonesian would prefer to have Shinkansen but in the long term it just doesn't worth it. The government is the smart one here.
Which train did they want?
China is much better about this just in general. They are much fairer partners in these kinds of deals.
@@franksun4017 they'll have cr400af new gen
@@vicidijendra598 Oh that's a good one, they will be happy for the product saying from my own experience. It beats airlines, quiet, smooth, less weather dependent and your ears don't hurt; tbh sometimes I'd rather take 1 more hour and take the train.
Also Japan is a country dictated by US. In future US can tell Japan to impose sanctions on Indonesia denying them spare parts because on supposed human rights issues or democracy.
🎉🎉🎉 Wishing good luck for Indonesian brothers and sisters best of luck from india 🇮🇳
Honestly China has built like 36,000 KM of high speed rail. They have automated and standardized the construction of high speed rail like nobody else can.
Finally, there's a good use of *slow* drone footage shot by those youtubers as stock footage. Nice video essay btw
the most important is Jakarta - Surabaya route because it is super busy , pre pandemic I often bussines trip to Surabaya , in morning at 5 - 7am there were more than 30 -50 flights going to Surabaya... crazy.
am really appreciate your deep investigation about this project 👍
INDONESIA will be BROKEN or DIVERGENTED
The majority of NKRI policies made so far have adopted elements of COLONIALISM and NEPOTISM.
Whatever the PARTY, whatever the ORMAS, whoever the FIGURE of the organization,
USEFUL because they are all DOLLS under the INFLUENCE and INTERVENTION of the oligarchs or the JAVA NATION POLITICAL ELITE.
If we were more careful
Those who do not want the PAPUA nation, the BORNEO nation, and the ACEH nation to be FREE
only the JAVA nation.
The BHINEKA TUNGGAL IKA is a TAMENG for JAVA opportunists who are greedy and greedy from the "SETTLER COLONIALISM" activity.
now and in the future,
sufficient for the nation in each ISLAND is DESINTEGRATION and BERDAULAT aka MERDEKA,
Why is there DESINTEGRATION?
because of INDEPENDENCE,
is the RIGHT of every nation,
whether he is the nation of PAPUA, the nation of ACEH, the nation of BORNEO,
Malay Nation, MALUKU nation and other nations.
The formulation of the UUD by the aristocrats in the past stated "INDEPENDENCE is the RIGHT of all nations" in order to protect the nations that exist in NUSANTARA in the event of a PARTY abuse of power by a group or community.
Since it was built, NKRI was only for the benefit of the JAVA nation and CHINA PLUTOCRATION
NON-JAVA Nation
Intentionally led in a SYSTEMIC manner so as not to maximize
Potential natural resources and human resources in their respective regions,
In order to remain AWFUL and POOR and not mastering KNOWLEDGE / TECHNOLOGY.
we NON-JAVA nation are not HERO
If the MONEY IS PRINTED with FOREIGN DEBT,
but only used to build MODERN EDUCATION INFRASTRUCTURE centralized in JAVA.
we NON-JAVA nation are not HERO
If INVESTORS (CAPITAL) are invited
then led only to build MANUFACTURING (INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION and PROCESSING ACTIVITIES)
centralized in JAVA.
we are NON-JAVA, not HERO
Because they are OLIGARKIES IN JAVA
And CHINA PLUTOCRACY does not want NON-JAVA NATIONS EDUCATED and PRODUCTIVE.
The NON-JAVA nation will not be able to go fast,
Being involved in bearing the burden of ECONOMIC, SOCIAL and POLITICAL failure,
as well as the explosion of the POPULATION that is from JAVA.
Not ONE CONTINENT and not ONE LAND
each ISLAND has its own NATION
and have their respective sovereignty.
Seize ORIGINAL PRIBUMI NATIONALISM,
And don't make room for JAVA OLIGARCHES and FOREIGN PLUTOCRACIES Deceptive anymore.
JAWASENTRIS NEPOTISM as well
CHINA COMMUNIST COLLUSION
in the current system of the UNITY OF BOHONGAN,
will only nourish the spirit of DESINTEGRATION and prolonged SEPARATISM,
and it's unstoppable,
Just waiting time,
fast or slow
there is no more national empathy in Nusantara to join JAVA,
Because of the government in JAVA,
It's nothing but a NECKLACE and a LICKET.
Full of LIE, NEPOTISM, and FEODALIS,
All layers of the nation in every region immediately realize this FACT even though JAWANESIA MEDIA tries to distort it,
# FREEWESTPAPUA2021
#FREESULAWESI
#FREEBORNEO
#FREESUMATRA
# DISCONTINUE THE REPUBLIC OF INDONESIA
# LEAVEJAWANESIA
@@federasiborneo9348 wkwkwkwk ya² semoga mimpumu bisa ter penuhi, tp semua tulisan² mu itu sedikit demi setikit di patahkan pemerintah jokowi sekarang, kita lihat saja di akhir pemerintahan yg sekarang ini akan seperti apa Indonesia terutama daerah luar jawa.
hampir semua copy'an mu di atas itu bullshit.
keep dreaming man💩🖕
@@federasiborneo9348 waduuuh siap tuan, semoga cita² anda bisa terwujud🤣🤣🤭
@@an.k96 dia komen apa?
@@jajajaja2616 lah di hapus kyknya, komennya pk b Inggris bro, intinya dia mendukung perpecahan pulau² di luar jawa kyk, Papua, Sumatra, Kalimantan dll, dan di sertai beberapa alasan, katanya yg mendukung NKRI cm orang² jawa, dan dia nyebut orang² jawa dg pangilan jongos² jawa, kyknya dia orang Kalimantan deh, pokonya komenya panjang bgt lah, tipe² komen kopyan pke b Inggris pula
Man, i'm too focused on the comments that i forgot to play the video first.
eh bogeng gw juga sama
@@justpeople5870 Debatnya segar 👌
I always do the same. Oftentimes the comment section is more interesting than the actual video, especially when it talks about something hot 😳
I just cannot resist to immediately scroll down and watch some grown up adults talk like sailors.
damn same
@@Tobayaba wkwkwk para railfans di kolom komentar ini seakan2 pakar investasi politik gw mah berdoa aja semoga keretanya nanti bakal aman dan nyaman dipakai
You covers much more details than our national media, thanks dude! this is very informative.
that is the strategy of mothers in indonesia when bargaining the price of groceries in traditional markets
pretend to cancel so that the seller can lower the price and give an advantage or added value to the buyer
moreover if there is competition between sellers #yasalam 😂
haha, cool
This happened in most of the Asian countries. Even in my country also. 😅😂
actually not that bad, its just china is far more agresive in marketing their services. however imho, the Jakarta Surabaya line would bring the biggest benefit for us. especially after we move passenger to dedicated line, the old line can be fully utilized for freight. that would greatly improve our economy.
anjay bener bgt 😁
its used by many chinese indonesian LMAO, i do it as well
Not to be mean, but I almost thought Joko was Obama in a hat until you said his name
Fun fact, Obama childhood was partially in Indonesia
😂😂😂😂😂
hehe jokobama
@@ajemajh asia obama
@@tomatoinactivechannel4084 joko wibama
finally our HSR insight video that isn't biased as much like (even) our national media. Good job!
wkwk apalagi di detik, berita nya rada bias
whoever builds it, we will benefit from it. I'm just glad we finally have modern transport available. also it would be nice if those 3 countries can work well with each other despite their past differences.
What are they saying over there?
@@rommelcheah87 Anblue said our media is biased. earlier there are comments that may reflect negatively towards our country made by another person, but it was no longer there. basically saying we are well versed in bargaining that kind of taking advantage of China and Japan rivalry. while its probably not completely wrong, but that's no why it happened.
Japan won the high speed rail contract of Vietnam, Thailand, and India. So far 0 km of rail is built
Damm it I think japan will do better,china so on... Not build that much. Both just same I think now
In India it is due to local issues.
Japan is slow like 90 years old man. Ooops, I forgot majority of Japanese already hit that age.
It's not only about tech,
While japan have high tech but they don't have capabilities for this kind of project,
Meanwhile China has capabilities in tech, financial, political, and human resources, this is something that Japan lacking
Trust me, Japan will only sell older gen shinkanzen for other countries and keep the latest gen for themselves
Hal positif tentang Indonesia government yang orang Indonesia aja gak tahu..
Good channel
Karena media kita kacau
@@Hajimuhammadson biasalah politik
Hati-hati dengan sekarang ini, lu setuju dengan pemerintah sedikit aja, udah habis lu dibully jir. Emang badjingan politik ini
@@revansyah3478 iya masak yang pro pemerintah dikit aja dibilang buzzer, padahal yang selalu kritik aja aktif buat konten, komen, dll. Jadi bingung siapa buzzer sebenarnya
@@adipurnama3700 Se7
Indonesia is forging ahead with its road, rail and airport infrastructure.
It is rapidly moving from third-world to first-world standards, as it already is with healthcare and shopping centres, while Canada and the USA have antiquated rail networks.
Not for too long xd
Actually, the rail infrastructure is very minor. As an Indonesian, Indonesia si technically moving upward, but on the ground, not so much. Healthcare is still not up to standards, and a lot of problems in the system.
I agree with you.
But it is rapidly improving.
The newest president is doing a great job.
@@brianperkins7593 We can say so. And so is a lot of his labour laws. But compared to the past, yes Indonesia is improving a lot. Just not so much on the railway part. I know my president, as I voted for him in the last election.
For the roads, he built a lot of things:
1. The Trans Java Toll Road
2. Trans Sumatra Toll Road
Both of these projects are really ambitious and connect the two islands more.
For the railway, it is barely doing anything.
Some of the projects:
1. Trans Sumatra Railway
The project has been stuck at Medan-Binjai for almost 3 years now.
2. Trans Sulawesi Railway
At least it is doing fine in Sulawesi, using the 1435 railway gauge, sadly, Single track only.
He is more focused on toll roads and politically speaking, his "strong man" has a vested interest in that sector. The Indonesian Railway sector doesn't have any governmental pressure group as most of the companies are State-Owned companies. By the way, further Info about the Jakarta-Bandung HSR is on my comment below, as there are some changes by the Govt. compared to what is said in the video.
@@hokanh579 You know much more about the situation than I do.
Interesting to read your comments.
Thank you.
Looks like a win-win where both parties benefit by working together.
Only china benefits
@@freedombro6502 both benefits
@@freedombro6502 if only chinese benefits then you think indonisia people is foolish? NO!, local people is smart, you are brainless
only Indonesian "politicians" got benefits.
Always good to see 2 countries benefiting each other. The technology transfer is important as it enables the country to be self-reliant. Teach a man how to fish instead of merely selling him fish. Indonesian government has chosen wisely. All the best!
I learn so much from this presentation. Thank you for sharing!!!
FYI, Jakarta - Bandung will have "Fuxing Hao" Train set.
We mentioned in the video that trains sets which will be used on this line is CR400AF Fuxing type.
@@RailwaysExplained I missed that. LOL
do u mean fucking how?
@@rajuseth1683 hahahahahha
U should learn more of train tech
Bro your videos are so well made. Congrats for your future 100,000 subs soon 💙
Thank you so much 😀
I am glad my president brought this hsr china to my country. Hopefully my country can pick up the technology and be able to make its own in the future.
I hope so too. 💯
it seems indonesia is already planning it's own HSR pt inka is ready for it
Well you can imagine how the Japanese are annoyed by the Indonesian government. it’s simply rude to let the competitor see the plan that they spent millions to prepare. You can claim that was part of politics or national interest, but the right call is made by the Japanese
Indonesian is much worse than rude. Japanese loved Indonesian in WW2. Indonesian loved the Japanese in WW2. Japanese saved Indonesia in WW2. Indonesian must worship the Japanese.
Its all business. Whoever can gives the best offer win. Suck it up.
@@IA100KPDT Yes! Suck it up. Business is war. WW2 isn't the last war.
@@user-vp1vl6yp9t u high bro?
@@benny.pepper u brain?
This reminds me of when i played transport tycoon as a kid and tried to model the rail network across Java. The main corridor would indeed be between Jakarta, Bandung, Semarang and Surabaya for business reasons, but considering the cultural significance for tourism in the south, it does seem prudent to extend the network to Jogja and Solo.
As for track gauge changes, I never knew that China had a similar system to Talgo. Another thing that you've yet to mention. How are they going to electrify the entire network? I'm not being funny, my parents are used to rolling blackouts in Java, so the question is will there be sufficient energy to support the 25kV?
I also won't put it past an orang kampung from a rural to try and steal the electricity.
To those who have had been caught in the Jakarta traffic jam, the HSR must come as a blessing. Looking at the comments, the proposed price was rather high for the commuters but with Indonesia gaining economic progress maybe by the time it is ready and with some practical adjustments, the Indonesians might be able to get the HSR going. After all Indonesia has the resources as well as the people to deliver, especially with the present President who is seen to have positive policies on Indonesian economic progress! For once, it looks like corruption isn't the rule of the game!
Yes, but i think it also need integration with mass transport system like Mrt and busses. Big city like bandung and surabaya are deperately need public transport
@@user-gc1hg9sp9k couldnt agree more me living in surabaya cant get away from my own vehicles, surabaya indeed need that due to more people coming here and we dont have any proper public transport yet
@@vicidijendra598 yep, i also live near surabaya ( sidoarjo exactly) and there is no reliable, fast, and comfort public transport in surabaya other than suroboyo bus (not really practical for daily because you have to pay with plastic bottle)
It looks "like" corruption isn't the rule of the game... I hope you mean it seems like it or probably joking?
I think building public transportation is absolutely important. It can reduce pollution, global warming, and effective in controlling traffic. But... Please don't do it like this. It is also what happened to that toll road. Who want to spend IDR 1 million just to drive from Surabaya to Jakarta if not the rich ones? This mechanism doesn't give a significant impact to citizens in general. Besides, why not focusing on intra-city public transportation first, rather than inter-city? Also, reducing the production of self-owned transportation such as cars or motorcycles? Although the latter is hard to achieve because it matters in the heart of the investors. As you know, Japan is the one who's investing in that port in Sukabumi so to make it easier for the vehicle's importing scenarios. Being "go green" is rather a joke. But being corrupt is a must. For every project, there's this "invisible hand" that's searching for a free meal. The government already made the country into a slum under the feet of the richest. The country's sovereignity fall under the hand of the capitals, without trying to understand deeply the need of its people. It is such a shame.
I find it very helpful that a CZcams video could explain my future trip on one of these high speed trains. Hopefully it goes well! Can't wait to try it, also see you on board fellow Indonesians!
Terima Kasih, Energy Of Asia : Onward ASEAN 🇲🇨🇸🇬🇲🇾🇧🇳🇹🇭🇻🇳🇲🇲🇱🇦🇰🇭🇵🇭 x 🇨🇳🇯🇵🇰🇷
One of the African countries have high speed trains curtesy of China - ( Tanzania/Kenya)
So amazing to see Indonesia moving up and looking really good for the future ahead! Can only imagine the convenience and time saved for the people for generations to come!
Well done Indonesia! Congratulations President Jokovi! Thank you China and thank you Chairman Xi!
✨🇨🇳🤝🇮🇩✨
You spelled the name wrong it’s Jokowi
@Antonio Luna LMAO
Joint venture company was set up just for saving money of the project and training technicians for the project.
11:50 The Chinese train ticket has unified domestic price except for those of Guangzhou Railway Group, so there's no point you should mention Nanjing-Shanghai to be wealthy because those of Yunnan has the same price. The Chinese domestic one are cheaper because China Railway (CR) receives giant amount of government subsidy to boost the economy (conventional trains has not changed ticket rate for 3 decades and if you understand the economy of China in 1990s you'd understand how cheap it must have been). If Indonesian government wants to do the same they're very welcomed to do so. Train services in China is a government-sponsored welfare, you can never compare any commercial service with a welfare, can you?
Is the price unified at a rate per km, or does every train ticket cost the same amount, no matter the distance?
@@jonnygiger9794 per km
@@jonnygiger9794 Financially the railway lines are a loss for China. It does however boost economies left and right the lines, and that was the intention from the beginning.
Now to the Indonesian Jakarta - Bandung line. A high speed railway line for a 140 km stretch is like a Ferrari for Singapore, useless. A train that travel 200 kph reliably would do it perfectly well. The line to Surabaya in the north is the one that should be highspeed.
I did Shanghai to Nanjing with the Bullet-Train, I really enjoyed it.
@@jonnygiger9794 For sure per km, but more complicated than that. There's a zh-Wikipedia article about it: zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%E9%93%81%E8%B7%AF%E5%AE%A2%E8%BF%90%E8%BD%A6%E7%A5%A8%E4%B8%8E%E7%A5%A8%E4%BB%B7
Price are different concerning different train class, from cheap to expensive:
1-5999 "Regular" (slow)
6000-9999 "Regular-fast" (slow)
K1-9999 (fast)
T1-9999 (express)
Z1-9999 (direct-express)
* All of above have varieties with and without air-conditioning. Air-conditioned train almost doubles the price.
* S/Y (commuter/) can be any of the train cars from "Regular" to D-class; price depends on individual train.
C (intercity) 160km/h-350km/h
D (multiple-units) 160km/h-250km/h
G (high-speed multiple-units) 250km/h-350km/h
The author was talking about the G-trains between Nanjing and Shanghai, I believe.
The weebs are mad in comment section
You win somewhere you lose somewhere
The chinese trains are just as good as japanese trains
Thank you for the video, Railways Explained. As usual, your video is excellent. However, as of December 2021, I would like to note several things for the audiences:
1. The Indonesian Government actually gave the Japanese Feasibility Study to China, and it caused the Japanese Government to be mad. This caused the Chinese Proposal to be cheaper as they do not need to do feasibility studies and a lot of surveying.
2. The Jakarta-Bandung HSR is also funded by the State Budget (APBN), as of the Fourth Quarter of the Year, since there is a massive cost overblown. This has been a major point of criticism by many people.
3. More cost overblown caused by miscalculation of the viaduct support, which led to several demolition and realignment.
4. 1 Metric Ton of railway tracks were stolen some months ago. (suspicious, isn't it?) Thus, adding more costs to the already expensive project
5. Tegalluar station is not even in Bandung City proper. It is in the Bandung Regency, thus people from the HSR needs to change to local trains to go to Bandung City, adding more travel times and causing the need to transfer trains.
In my opinion, Indonesia could actually, instead of making HSR, double-tracked the Current Jakarta Bandung Railway and upgrade the signalling. The main cause of the long travel time by trains is the lack of double tracks and winding routes. It should be noted that the railways were initially built by the Dutch as steam locomotives have low adhesion, thus requiring slow gradient increase, thus the winding route. All in all, the Jakarta-Bandung HSR is a bit misplaced, as they should have just double-tracked the existing 1067 mm line, upgrade the signalling, straighten some routes, and done. A much cheaper Jakarta Bandung Railway, no transfer, and drops you directly on the main railway station in Bandung.
And, from an International Relations perspective, this project is the initial "smooth deal" between Indonesia and China as this project was more diplomatically influenced so that Indonesia could get closer to China. I am currently pessimistic on this project, I was a major supporter back then, but recent developments have shadowed my optimism. Best hopes for this project, lest it drained the state budget.
Thank you the new insights!
@@dharmapratama.i9487 gak salah sih mas. Dan bener juga kata mas. Berkenankah di terjemahkan ke Inggris?
@@dharmapratama.i9487 tapi pernah kepikiran ga pemerintah udah sadar kalau bangun transportasi berbasis rel kaya gini bakal makan biaya banyak makanya bangun in the middle of nowhere, like Malaysia did with their MRT. Jadi mereka buat tranportasi umum gini tuh cuman untuk merangsang pembangunan, better city planning. Kan selama ini kita kalau bangun transportasi kalau udah macet atau stuck dulu baru gusur gusur yang jadinya cost more than it should be.
To me, ticket prices of 35 USD sound quite high for a 140 km journey, especially in Indonesia. A 40 minutes journey would make daily commuting possible, but not for this price. And even for weekly commutes, only the wealthy would be able to pay this, I think. In conclusion, I agree with the doubts about the passenger projections mentioned in the video. I hope they could reduce the ticket price a bit. Furthermore, I think a line like this could only reach its full potential when it gets extended. 140 km is arguably a bit short for high-speed rail.
There are an awful lot of very rich and well to do Indonesians so I don’t think the price will be that big of a problem. Plus the normal trains are not going away. Which btw is not that much cheaper. I’m pretty sure I paid something like 25 $ for a ticket Jakarta Bandung a couple of years ago
As indonesian the price actually make sense, if you from Jakarta and go to bandung it will take you about 2 hours, if we count Toll-Road Fee, Gas for the car, and time spend on the road (and we still don't talk about traffic jam which is usually happen in the weekend)
It already cost you about $30. And we still didn't talk about going to rest area.
So if i were a business man or have an important thing to do in bandung i definitely will take the HSR rather than going with car
@@MrJimheeren As far as I see, the normal train should cost around 7-10 USD. 35 USD might be a good price for wealthy people or businessmen, but I would rather see public transport as something everyone (or at least most people) can use. I'm not sure whether this project could reach that goal.
@@anonomia5535 yeah I probably bought first class tickets when I think of it
I kind of disagree about the pricing but I couldn't agree more about the route. Java HSR will reach its full potential when it gets extended to Surabaya.
So it's privately funded between Chinese and Indonesian Companies, unlike Japan that insists Indonesian government involved in funding the joint project Jakarta - Surabaya HSR.I have yet to hear the "Debt Trap propaganda"input.
It's not entirely private since those are State owned enterprises by both Indonesian and Chinese, which majority shares controlled by their respective government.
It's basically G2G with more steps. Both Indonesian and Chinese members of the consortium are state-owned enterprises. Their loss would be the state's loss as well.
@@PissMenn but still. The central government almost didn't spend their GDP at this.
@@mirizid9667 spent their GDP? what do you mean? Government spending is part of GDP
@@truthseeker1934 Perhaps.. but this way the gov will not need to include it in their annual budget which requires approval from the parliament (which is unlikely).. Also if the KCIC venture goes belly up, the gov has the option of not bailing it out... unlike G2G scheme which requires the gov to actually commit taxpayer money from the very beginning...
Excellent negotiations of the Indonesians. It’s a great investment on a prime location. And when it pays out you can do the same on other Islands to make more money.
Maybe the next train project will be in Borneo after the goverment completes the New Capital constructions
Makassar- Parepare railway is in progress, but just regular train, not HSR.
Good luck Indonesia 🇮🇩 for the bullet train project.
India 🇮🇳 too will have soon.🤝🤝
🇮🇳🤝 🇮🇩
we're struggling because of this project bro
Would be very interesting. Especially with the technology to change track gauge. However when you look at the costs, I think upgrading is the better option.
UPGRAD!NG WHAT?!!
If you talking about upgrading existing conventional line then pls for the love of god its bad idea
Very comprehensive video! Love from Indonesia
Wow. I didn't know that in detail. Thanks for sharing this on youtube, so Indonesian people abroad such as myself can get abreast with the development that are currently taking place. Grüß aus Hannover.
Doakan juga ya bang semoga Indonesia jalan ke arah yang benar, dan salam dan bilang ke kawan kawan yang di luar sana kalau ada berkeinginan untuk balik atau tua di sini share yang kalian dapat disana ke generasi berikutnya dan bantu membangun Indonesia ya. Kalau dengan alasan tertentu kalian tidak bisa, saya mohon maaf karena cuma bisa minta juga wkwkwk
@@dextera-tx1099 Siap. Thanka for your words of encouragement.
Wow what a quality video. This is a rare gem on CZcams.
Indonesia is becoming the gate way hub of ASEAN
Dream on 🤣 that's close to impossible, I'm Indonesian
Seeing Indian High Speed Railway, as an Indonesian.... I think we will chose China for Jakarta BANDUNG Surabaya HSR.
I think it's lucky for China to lose India's high-speed rail order. There are too many problems with building high-speed rail in India.
Its your choice........but we Indians dont prefer china and prefer Japan for bullet train......and for your Information Indian high speed rail is delayed because of land acquisition problem there is no other problem
@@sachinvlogs4017
Wasn't it a mechanical failure in the japan rail line that was reported by hindustantimes.
Ummm... Propaganda and fake at best..
@@jurgenangler5294 yeah but Japan will have clear hand
Not like Chinese corruption and trap deal like 50 or 99 years least
@@blackstrom7473 prove? or just talking ass?
Thanks, it's completed
Will be open for public on August, a special gift for our Independence day.
SALAM, I MUSLIM FILIPIN IN COTABATO CITY MAGUINDANAO , MINDANAO , PHILIPPINES , I LIKE INDONESIA MY ROOTS FROM INDONESIA. OK
Good job projects HSR in the world In INDONESIA Jakarta to Bandung..
there are 7 big island in Indonesia yet only java and Sumatra got train and good freeway, well done Indonesia
@@arielrifkycahyadi1353 Because the number of inhabitants on each island is different, if it is built on an island with a large population, it can be profitable.
Man your name is too beautifull
Thank you for this. I feel enlightened. Even as a local i learnt much from this
Great Explanation n Infomation,Thanks Admin. LOVE U🤩😘
I love your channel, I'm a railfan from Indonesia.
Never been to Jakarta, when this HSR is completed, will pay a visit. See the city and ride first HSR in south east asia. should be cool.
when or if?
@@bwubi5936 if
See ya in 2023
Last year 2022
Welcome to Indonesia. See you there
Thanks lot for your information.. This is great and amazing that you explain to me. I really happy if my goverment can explain like what you did so Indonesian people can understand.... Love from INDONESIA
Thank you very much and greetings from Algeria!
For the people living in Jakarta (in fact, on the island of Java, included), this project is a must.
Please speed up the building of the high-speed rail to include Semarang, Tegal, Bekasi, and Debok, into a network of High-speed + Light-rail interchange stations too . Do not delay any longer!!
Due to lack of good government, we have neglected this for too long already.
Other suggestions for next videos:
1. Newly-inaugurated Tehran double decker metro
2. Nairobi's new commuter rail. I think their concept is pretty interesting (commuter rail plus free shuttle buses throughout the city center)
3. Dying rural railways in Japan
4. Development of hydrogen-powered trains as alternatives to non-electrified diesel train
5. Indonesia's quest in developing domestically-produced metro rail industry (perhaps the only lower income country other than India that take it seriously)
Thank you for your proposal! Right now, we can tell you that the story about hydrogen trains is coming shortly! :)
Indonesia isn't even a low income country though, it's high middle income country
@@RailwaysExplained If I may suggest some more topics:
- The Grand Paris Express (or don't you consider that as a railway project?), being very ambitious with nearly doubling the existing Paris subway network
- The existing and upcoming tunnels through the Alps (the longest railway tunnels in the world): the Brenner Base Tunnel and Lyon-Turin railway
- Thailand's HSR project
@@manuel6273 I said 'lower' not 'low'
Double-decker train for line 5?
This a Billion% more imformative than indonesian news tv station.
god I hope I can tune my news tv more, if deliveries are this level.
I only follow this issue when i was at university. And the conclusion that I could gathered was B2B model that was emphasized by Jokowi's office. For a lower middle income country with area span from london to moscow with mostly waters and 2/3 population of US, the ambition to build infrastructure is massive. Government's funding won't cover such projects nor the bureaucracy. Imagine for that 6B project would add up to 10B with 5B++ will end up in bureaucrats. Yes, we will only get another monuments of failure built because every Indonesians aware about our corrupt bureaucrats. So, B2B is a way to prevent unfinished project better than G2G model that was proposed by Japan.
Technically, no comment, I heard some under quality issues regarding bullet train and power plant projects under Chinese supervision from my professors. But, politically, thanks to this video I found out quite brilliant. Now Japanese pays more attention to our demands because they have competitors.
Regarding Southern Java route, I will gladly welcome the project because it is easier for me to travel home. But, the geographic is harsher with more hills and uneven terrains moreover that region was under the sea like thousands years ago. And population or economical capability is quite lower than northern part like what Japan proposed. So, It is a good intention from government to raise the income of southern area but a bullet train for the region, are we ready yet to reach BEP for 50 years?
Java north coast only consists of small town, while big city are in the south/center. isn't HSR mean to connect big cities?
@troy krentzs and that's the problem with Japanese, they wouldn't want to teach us to operating and maintaining, also Japanese tend to delay ongoing projects resulting in additional cost
@troy krentzs also 100% safety record is a bit BS
@@hull4bal00 I see it as the other way around. After Bandung, the only southern Java town that's big enough for an HSR would be Jogja/Solo, so I understand why they keep to the northern coast. I dont know about the terrain up north, but down here in Jogja, the terrain is quite rough.
congrats for 10000 subs
Thanks! 😊
Summary from the Japanese side:
5 years of geological survey with Japanese funds on the premise of receiving an order because of an informal offer from the Indonesian government
↓
Indonesian president changes
↓
Submit the results of the geological survey route and plan
↓
For some incomprehensible reason, Indonesia suddenly decides to use a bidding system
↓
For some incomprehensible reason, China says it will participate in the bidding
↓
For some incomprehensible reason, China submits a plan in 5 months that is exactly the same as the route that Japan spent 5 years on geological survey, only the price is different
↓
China wins the bidding and gets the order
Indonesian government: "Japan's construction costs are too high"
↓
China takes time to acquire the land, construction is delayed, and the budget is exceeded
↓
Indonesia: "Japan can join us" ← Now
Judging from how Indonesia wants the HSR to extend to Surabaya, the route will be different now
the Ind. gov. believe the seller is eaget to do businnes at any cost.
Japan will not spend cash for the pride of the country whyle China DOES and this is the reason China use projects x political gains.The indonesians will find out their bargain is not a bargain at all , the strings attached will pull for x 1 century.
Summary : Japan is a sore loser. Weaboo GTFO
so its Japan fault from the first step
Well I think China delay to aquire land is not their fault but the local Indonesia government. So to suggest China delay aquire land in order to raise the project cost is wrong.
Thanks for the narrative video. Quite simple enough in explaining the outsiders point of view of such of this hot projects in Indonesia
Good job bro very brief and clear thanks for sharing
well done, the docu maker must have some engineering background. This is an example of a win-win deal, the Indo. are a tough negotiator.
A入
😂 because we love free products..lol
@@hyu7335 shown too many times viewers will start thinking is he paid by Edifier as advertisements for their products? I am NOT saying he is.
There a few NEW products out there now, new Fluance active, etc
Use a little imagination is will then attract new viewers, viewers get tired easily. I like this channel it talks less and demo. music more unlike other channels, Other channels just Talk, Talk and talk to Describe music, talking is not enough.And these channels disguise reviews as advertisements for manu. products.
@@hyu7335 China proposed $6 billion. Japan proposed $5 billion. Free?
Thank you for accepting my request
You are welcome! Have we met your expectations? :)
This description is very good and gives an understanding that it is not easy to build a high-speed rail project where many considerations need to be made, including geo-politics and international relations support. Funny thing is, many Indonesians don't realize that, and instead sneer at it as debt goods, imaging projects and breasts other idiots, thanks for your work bro !
*The recent huge collaborations between China and Indonesia is a huge win for the Pacific really! 🇨🇳❤️🇮🇩... China Indonesia France and Italy must work towards making TROPICAL countries the top power*...
Not for france and italy
The reasons why these are happening is because World bank is no longer what it was supposed to be. Helping countries build infrastructure, world Bank has become conservative in terms of helping developing countries. Many developing countries have become used to the the idea of getting loans and grants for infrastructure building from the time USA started giving loans through world Bank. Now world Bank is an high terms and conditions undesirable option for a lot of countries so they go to countries like China.
They still give loan, but only for military equipment purchase,
Infrastructure? Nope, never.
FYI most of our Commuter line are used Japanese EMUs, so indonesia and Japan has already been a partner in railway developments. But China is on another whole level
correct!
Thanks, it's quite informative!
I didn't know about this project, it sure has a lot of potential, both for transport solutions and economic development in Indonesia!
Japan can't play billateral smartly with Indonesia. Japan always looking foward closer with Thailand in Buisness system. So, Indonesia will say " Let me think about what you think Japan?"
You realize that we're trully asian when we diplomatically applies the "asian mom" style. Which is basically get the cheapest thing as possible with same benefits with the expensive one. If bargaining needed so be it. We'll bargain until the last blood drop.
The fact that the island of Java is much like Hokkaido wherein travelling with cars inter-city are too long and travelling with planes inter-city are too short in term of distance are true. Thanks for this epic video! We're Indonesia made a correct decision of making HSR line! Jayalah Indonesiaku!
Additional information:
The CR400AF (Fuxing Train) is the newest HSR generation used by China right now with these specifications:
Max. Operational Speed : 350 km/h
Max. Design Speed : 400 km/h
Max. Speed Record : 420 km/h
Yeah,fabulous train indeed,just look the interior u will kown how comfortable this train is.The HSR not only can carry passengers but also can carry cargo,and new cargo high speed train come up recently in China ,Indonesia might need some :)
Yeah you're right. Java is more like Hokkaido in terms of population density but population number wise is larger than the entire Japan. Travelling by car is wasting time and money. And also the current train is slower than 120 Km/h. No wonder why the govt want to construct HSR.
@@mirizid9667 Agreed!
@@kolluion4254 Yes absolutely! It'll gonna help boost Indonesia's economy
HSR IN LONG TERM W!LL INFLUENCE ECONOMIC GROWTH!!!
It must be painful for the US that a country like Indonesia, which has just risen an inch above being a third-world place, can do something which seems to be impossible in the US.
can't be compared, it's just a train and that's not what we made ourselves.
As much as I'd love to have HSR in the US, its just not super feasible due to the sheer size of the country combined with just how ingrained car culture is to daily life.
Thank you for in-deep look and unbiased view :)
One major point that's not discussed enough in this video is the Government Guarantee for the funding, should something wrong happens in the future.
Japan & France demanded this via their G to G proposal, while China's is not.
The country don't have this kind of money, basically, that's why China's proposal won.
Combine this with the corrupt mentality of some of Indonesian officials, the G to G funding will not end well for this huge project.
Sad but it's the cold hard truth.
wkw serasa investasi bodong bro gak perlu jaminan apa" tapi dijamin pasti untung gede
@@ibnu9969 ya gimana ya, pejabat kita suka korupsi, dan lagi pilihan ini udah tepat buat minimalkan risiko yg tidak dinginkan.
@@ibnu9969 Hehe, ga ada jaminan bakalan sukses om, sama seperti bisnis/investasi lainnya.
Kalau mau diskusi beneran, ayok, saya jabarin, tapi kalo cuma mau menghujat/debat kusir, silakan aja lah, saya gak ikut ikut
Nothing to do with corruption or corrupt officials actually..
The main reason why the gov could not, or would not, provide Government Guarantee is because it means the gov would have to budget it in APBN, which means it will have to be scrutinized and approved by parliament (DPR), which means it will unlikely to be approved because it is considered to be a 'luxury infrastructure' that is not urgent and may cause jealousy elsewhere and also taxpayer money is better spent on other more urgent infra projects...
Without a Goverment Guarantee, it means no taxpayer money will be spent on it and it's all purely the developers and investors money.. If there are investors brave enough to construct it with their own money without gov assistance, then there's no reason why the gov would not support it.. after all the gov is always looking for investors to invest in our infra projects..
@@ganjarwijaksana711 This is a valid point, although the corruption will have a lot to do if Govt. were to choose the G to G loan instead of B to B.
Indo law stated that every Government money (including loans) must go through the senate approval (Banggar DPR) & this is where the problem will start.
Every senator, govt official & their pets would want 'a piece of the huge cake' & the corruption vaganza will start by trying to make their families or friends winning the construction, supplier tenders.
You know this WILL happen, just like usual.
But, yea, your point is also valid. 👍
More about indonesia please! Awesome
love your explanations mate, Lovely
Congrats on Indonesia, hope to see that Rail when I visit in the future.
go ahead, love from Bangladesh,
I pass the large tunnel on the toll highway near Bandung every day, some months there would be alot of trucks around the area but other months it's pretty much empty, it has been like that for about 2 years.
The Chinese govenment knows the revenue of high speed railways is not only from tickets being sold, but also the increase of the price of real estate along the high speed railways. Further more, rise of economies along the railway. All these haven't been understood by most western countries.
yes as Indonesian I agree with you, HSR is not only passanger but multiple effect for Economy.
Western countries? Maybe the USA, but certainly not western Europe and especially Austria.
that moment when you need to watch foreign video to understand what really happen in your country..
great presentation btw.. here take my subscribed...
Mungkin karena selama ini kamu nonton berita di media yg salah?
It has been covered A LOT by various news channels, you can look it up on youtube
Maybe you’re looking at the wrong channels all this time
Nonton nya video tiktok joget pamer toket ya gak bakal paham
Ahaha, they r more reliable
@@FebiMaster But the television in Indo rarely covered it tho. They only covered it when the project reach the "checkpoint".