The Consequences of the Race & IQ Discourse with Charles Murray
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- čas přidán 24. 06. 2021
- This is an excerpt of my conversation with Charles Murray.
The episode is out for my members now.
For everyone else, if you'd like to gain early access to this episode, consider becoming a member via colemanhughes.org
#ConversationswithColeman #CharlesMurray #Race #IQ #BellCurve #ColemanHughes #CwC
![The Perils of Race Science with Charles Murray [S2 Ep.21]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OE5QcD_12fQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Perils of Race Science with Charles Murray [S2 Ep.21]](/img/tr.png)
Coleman almost said we have to deny reality to live in a more reasonable world. Murray said clearly that denying reality has led us to a less reasonable world.
That's because Coleman benefits from the lie so he's ok with it.
@@JNYC-gb1ppBlacks already deal with low self esteem issues. Imagine being surrounded by pretty white people with blonde hair and blue eyes, who are more articulate than you are, and who outperform you all the time, and at one point they literally used you as farm livestock because that's all you were to them. Once IQ data starts to go mainstream, it'll get substantially more depressing for them. Feelings of inferiority are already so high and repressed by them. I understand why Coleman is sympathetic.
That's trash. Who's defining reasonable world. War is very likely in a world of finite resources. They were not too smart in that exchange.
No, the issue isn't that IQ is a real measure. The issue is why are you measuring it by race instead of by families? White isn't a group. Neither is black. There are low IQ people in both groups, and high IQ people in both groups. So why not just see what the high IQ and low IQ people across these groups have in common?
@@lucianp2616 tell them that
Here are some consequences:
IQ of 70-84 is considered intellectually deficient. Much higher rate of poverty, criminality, etc in this range and below. 50% of black Americans score 84 or below.
116 and above is gifted. 131+ is highly gifted like scientist level IQ. There are roughly 40k black Americans with IQ 131+, and 4,800,000 white Americans with IQ 131+
146+ is profoundly intelligent and able to provide novel thought and ideas, create advancements for society, invent things, push humanity forward. There are about 4K black Americans with 146+ IQ, and about 230k white Americans.
This is why this stuff matters
The categories used to group people into races are taken for granted. In the U.S., White includes all people originating from the many nations of Europe; North Africa; and the Middle East. Where does one race category start and end exactly? We know what the U.S. says on the matter. But that question about race can actually be answered by reading a bit about genetics, but I suspect some out there would find it unpalatable. There are people included in the White category today, that the average U.S. citizen may have consider suspect or unimaginable not too long ago. These categories appear to be based on social political reasons, and of course color. Categories are never questioned, that's why this stuff matters.
It gets worse, median IQ on most of the continent of Africa is 65-70. Most of South America is 85. But what is more important than IQ is conscientiousness, knowing right from wrong and controlling your behavior.
@@bonniespeck Have you ever really looked at the origin of the numbers you cited?
@@ESCAGEDOWOODWORKING Also many mixed people are still put under the same category as "blacks".
I had my IQ tested when I was 12 it is 130..
Charles Murray has been demonized ever since his book the Bell Curve came out. It is courageous and good to speak with him about this issue in a forthright manner.
Oh, is that who this guy is? I bought that book in the 90's and never quite finished it. I guess I didn't get to the "objectionable" chapter, because I always wondered what people were complaining about. I should probably finish reading it.
I used to be more on the leftist side of the spectrum when it came to social issues and racial disparities until I read The Bell Curve. It was a hard, hard read and challenged a lot of my beliefs that were difficult to let go of, but I'm so much better off now and the world makes a lot more sense. It's tough love, that book.
The worst part was had people paid better attention to the divide which he was warning about then we may have lessened how bad society has fragmented. Charles was not disparaging different races in that book he was trying to present the evidence that is still unchanged today and then he was trying to make an argument about what was happening to society as it stratified into a ruling class and the ruled over masses!
@@ognargormsby7121 It's even worse than that, Murray was proposing that ONLY once we accept the average IQ gap, (which so many are still in Denial of!), can we make provisions to try and lessen the effects of it, through education structuring, summer schools, after school club/homework club etc etc.
But if we blindly deny its' existence, despite the research and empirical evidence, then we can only look at difference in outcomes and cry 'racism'!
(Meantime, the Asian kids are top of the class and elite professions wondering what the Hell this 'systemic racism' is and how did it not affect them, LOL!)
czcams.com/video/GgZFGgJlAsk/video.html
Accepting the IQ reality is only scary if you judge people as groups
Not gonna lie but this whole conversation unoriginal. There are way too many outside variables that factor to individual IQ. And the thought of racially grouping it in the form of a serious topic just seems dull.
@@KidTreky but Asian are smarter tho
No one can deny that
This thing also correlates with conflict, crime, violence, creativity , art and desire for more
@@shunsuke8321 No Asians are just the most disciplined group.
Accepting critical theory and white privilege reality is only scary if you see people as groups.
Murray is correct: If you’re going to cite group statistics to try to prove systematic racism exists, it’s perfectly valid, and even necessary, to use group statistics to refute the claim, while still arguing that we all should be treated as individuals with respect to the law. This should not be difficult to grasp.
@Tyreepsych That is not why IQ tests are administered now. You're about 100 years behind on intelligence research.
@Tyreepsych IQ or g score have some flaws, but it is an absolutely amazing predictor of income in 1st world countries in the 21st century. So anything that has to do with income differences is explained extremely well by IQ differences. This is an important factor to remember when trying to take into account life outcomes of different groups in places like the US. If you look at median income by group in the US and compare that to differences in IQ, then they match up just about perfectly. That doesn't mean that something like affirmative action should be completely eliminated, but we need to be honest why affirmative action exists and not blame racism for the need of an affirmative action program.
@Tyreepsych Maybe not 100 years ago, but now they are.
@Tyreepsych No, they won't. That's what we call "pop psychology." Intelligence researchers will tell you they're the best way we have to measure intelligence if you survey them, which of course has been done.
@@MeanBeanComedy We still don't have sufficient evidence that IQ is tied in with race. What we do know is the IQ gap is shortening between whites and blacks in the US as groups attain the same healthy environments etc
Whooo boy what a knife edge conversation. And both sides have well articulated points and both entail negative consequences for society. Good luck finding this on mainstream media.
You will not find this on mainstream media because they have no agenda in promoting garbage pseudoscience.
@@jcarc5701 how is having a debate/conversation about statistical realities, promoting garbage science?
@@prybarknives Are you that dishonest or just obtuse?
@@jcarc5701 What garbage pseudoscience are you referring to - examples and citations please?
@@douglasherron7534 Everything written by Charles Murray.
Thanks Coleman for having the courage to do this interview despite cancel culture. I hope the blow back isn't too bad.
This point was already made below, but I don't think whites' discomfort with interracial marriage is necessarily due to beliefs about the intelligence of Black Americans. I assume many Blacks are also uncomfortable with marrying interracially, and I know personally that this is true for many Asians and Indians. Anxieties over differing cultures and worldviews is the main issue, IMHO.
Agreed. It’s a growing pain too. If a human was brought up by wolves, such as with Mowgli in The Jungle Book, it wouldn’t be surprising if they were initially suspicious of humans who even had the same racial characteristics as them. And it also shouldn’t be surprising that the infantilisation of various racial groups by the Democrat Party makes portions of those groups more culturally entrenched and racist, especially the portions who come from broken environments, and yet…
As a non-white lol, I don't have a problem with interracial marriage, but the thought of a white girl marrying me or some other minority out of some kind of condescension, social justice, savior complex, or fetish creeps me the eff out.
When you hear the things they say about minorities regarding cultural and political issues, well how are they not talking about you? I get the feeling a lot of women marry them for those reasons, and honestly it makes me lose respect for their partners. Like have some self-respect bro.
@@bradspitt3896 Yeah, I've encountered a few white women who fetishise black men. Its definitely a bit creepy. Don't get me wrong. Anyone is free to have any dating preference they want. It's the reasons they give that just sound so bizarre and make it clear that they are making all kinds of group based assumptions and that it is not the individual in question that is of genuine interest to them.
But yea survey questions are often too abstract.
There is a funny sex element to this question to.
Ask a black man what he thinks about black men marrying white women and he most likely be fine with it. Ask him what he thinks about white men marrying black women and you will generally get a far less approving response.
Ask a black woman how she feels about black men marrying white women and she will generally be far less approving than the guy was. She is likely more accepting of black women marrying white men.
I'm not sure exactly why this is but I have found it to be fairly reliable in general (plenty of exceptions, of course, but the majority of cases)
This cross-sex difference in view on what should be essentially the same question holds true across all races so far as I am aware.
It is as though each sex has almost proprietary feelings about the opposite sex of their own race.
Yes, reality should be mainstream.
My father didn't want me to marry a black man (I didn't but not for that reason) but it wasn't because he thinks black people are less intelligent, it was because black men aren't known for sticking around. The reputation for fatherless black families made him believe that the odds weren't in favor and that marriage is hard enough. I obviously can't speak for everyone else but that's my experience.
🤮
Based Father
we need more like him
I wish USA racial politics didn’t spill out to other countries
Racial politics didn't start and will not end with the US
Bryce. Take GF and the Blm movement some people in the uk seem to think that USA history be it slavery or electoral supression in Alabama applies to Peckham London etc. It doesn’t totally different history not least as West Indian migration started in around 1950. Taking the knee which in the uk followed floyd blm, why? What’s it got to do with the uk or let alone other European countries?
@@brycemonkey3867 you’re so oppressed that you’re able to make comments like this on a public platform.
The anglosphere is full of it. It will all be so different when real democracies such as China and Iran and their allies run the world
@@youtubeyoutube936 you honestly think this is just about America? That's what some might want you to believe. This isn't new and it's not exclusive to America. This is class struggle re-packaged and cleverly manipulated. It's a tale as old as modern civilization.
We may not live in a reasonable world, but one thing that is clear Coleman is that you are doing your best to bring reason to it. And you are doing a damn good job. Thank you for your courage and your hard work.
I could be wrong but I have never seen such irrational behavior coming form our establishment elites
Signs of a dying empire.
Coleman is completely intellectually anemic for this point.
Ignoring yucky facts is not respectable imo
On the point of marrying, I can't say that it is indicative of an issue, in my opinion.
I'm an immigrant from South America, considered black by larger society. I'm not especially experienced (23 years old), but this is not that surprising in any other group of people.
I have met all kinds of people in my short life, black Americans, various Caribbean islanders, South Koreans, Japanese, Indian, Iranian, Egyptian, United Emirates, white Americans, white Canadians, Germans, Italians, Spanish etc.
Every single conversation I have had with individuals both young and old, racial homogeny seems to be the rule. A lot of these people expressed their desire for their children or themselves to marry someone of their race and ethnicity (the older folks) and the younger people usually have a preference for people that look like them, though ethnicity is less important since younger people are more integrated into larger western society. With older adults in these various groups having their own prejudices of one group or the other.
Of course my account is only anecdotal, but my point is even among minorities the same sentiment is reflected and in the older population I would argue its even higher than the statistic exemplified by the political parties. What would be a good number? And is it reasonable to expect it to be even lower among white Americans? Is it really a problem when many immigrant groups and minorities are arguably just as racially prejudiced to others or sometimes even more so than white America?
One thing I was surprised about when I first came to America was how appalled the general populace is at instances of white prejudice, it's almost superstitious. While in the same vein I have witnessed many different non-white groups say derogatory things about blacks, Jews, different hispanic cultures, Koreans, Indians, Philippinos etc. And it's often just as heinous and sometimes even more derogatory. The point being everyone does this, but the majority of people regardless of their racial/ethnic background are generally minimal in their prejudice especially the younger people.
I do not think there is any reasonable way around this, I agree with Charles, treating people as individuals is the best and only way.
Preach
Your humility regarding your 23 yrs. is admirable. However, I think you have an old head on your shoulders. Very much enjoyed your comment. ✌️x
Charles doesn't want to treat people as individuals, he clearly wants to ascribe inferiority to racial groups that don't fit into the mean IQ. Read quotes from him from the past, and you'll discover that he is a racist, bad faith actor, presenting this stuff under the guise of "muh science".
well said
This is very true, call a Puerto Rican mexican once and you'll see it live and maybe survive to tell the tale. I did 6 years in the army with people from every country, lived in korea and japan, and each culture seems to interact differently. For example we had a guy from Nigeria in basic training, he was amazing funny, smart hard working and there were three guys from the hood and he couldnt stand them cause they kept getting us in trouble with the drill sgts. By the end of basic though all of us called each other brother cause we had to come together and rely on each other to get through it. Honestly, that's the only way I see the end of any kind of racism is through experience and teamwork.
At minute 3:00 concerning who you would want to marry a relative; 75% of black young men don't stick around to raise their children. Roughly 20% of white, Asian and Hispanic men do stick around to raise their children. This reality wasn't mentioned in the equation, as it never is, about why people feel the way they do. It matters, and to say it doesn't is a lie.
And what about class, culture? Some stick around, some don't, and also why look only at the men and not the women? Do women want the men to stick around? Is marriage important? These are questions which have more to do with culture than race.
@@lucianp2616 Whether or not people get & remain married, whether they have illegitimate children or not, is correlated with IQ. IQ and race are correlated. You're not going to be able to escape race when it comes to these issues.
@@TheOpenSociety777 Elon Musk?
@@TheOpenSociety777 Whether you believe in marriage or not has nothing to do with IQ or race. That is culture and beliefs. Not everyone values traditional nuclear family or cares about marriage. Marriage is just a contract unless you're religious.
@@TheOpenSociety777 And also what about the women? In the deadbeat situations it's women who chose men who either can't afford to provide or who won't make good fathers. Again that has nothing to do with IQ unless you mean to imply the women choosing these men have lower IQs.
Women who want to look out for themselves need to negotiate a better contract with the men they choose as sperm donors or fathers.
Coleman: knowing there are young public intellectuals such as yourself taking these cogent, wise, and fundamentally decent positions gives me hope for the future of our country.
Happy 4th
Glen loury just had a great conversation with murray as well.
Great perspectives from both guys. Appreciate the willingness to have the conversation at all. I'll subscribe.
Facts are facts.If you don’t look at facts you can’t solve problems.
Most people can't interpret the facts. That is why discussing them openly is important, because you never communicate a fact without its objective implications; that is the job of experts. At that point people decide which explanation fits better to reality, not discussing the facts themselves (because they are not equipped to understand the raw data)
@Shimmy Shai there is no solution only tradeoffs.
Thank you Colman, for continuing to be a voice of reason and commented sense.
Thank you Murray for the same.
Jated Diamond argues in his book Guns, Germs and Steel that Europeans and Asians got an enormous head start because of geography:
some plants lend themselves to agriculture by producing energy-dense seeds which are easily harvested and which have a long shelf life after drying
the Mediterranean climate was ideal for growing these plants
Europe/Asia has a long east/west strip which allowed agriculture to propagate
the Americas have regions with the same climate, but the dominant axis is north/south so those areas are separated and constrained; agriculture wasn't able to propagate the same way
the Indigenous Australians could never have invented agriculture because the domesticatable plants simply weren't present, likewise with many other places
agriculture meant that an individual could generate more food than they required, which enabled specialisation and a division of labour, which in turn enabled innovation
certain types of animals lend themselves to domestication (especially important is a herding instinct); almost all these animals were present in Europe/Asia, and absent elsewhere
domesticated livestock added to the food surplus, and added mobility
living at close quarters with the domesticated livestock led to disease transmission, and after some time a "herd immunity" within the human population; the indigenous peoples who were later invaded had not acquired such immunity and were heavily impacted by diseases brought by colonists/conquerors
On top of that, the alphabet was invented in the Mediterranean region whixh enabled transmission of knowledge, which enabled growth of knowledge, which imparted military abd commercial advantage
With these advantages, the rest of the world didn't have a chance. At least, not for the first 10,000 years. But oil became incredibly important a bit over a century ago, and the existing empires were absolutely smashed by WWI. We're at the beginning of a new chapter. A Chinese diplomat was asked what he thought of the French Revolution and he replied, "It's too early to tell". That's probably pretty true.
I fell in love with a black girl in high school. My father really liked her.Her father had a fit and made us break up.So ,it doesn't matter what color you are.People are people.
He did you a favor
@@jeanpaulgartier3404 how could breaking up happy people and making the world a little more miserable possibly be a good thing
@@sirsurnamethefirstofhisnam7986 Mixed race kids have issues with identity. To reduce this issue, people should stick to their own. Not saying it can be reduced 100 percent, but it is something to keep in mind. These culture clashes and identity clashes cause conflict which sows distrust and fractures the family. We need stronger family units and that can't happen when different racial groups inevitably conflict with one another, particularly within racially mixed family relations.
@@sirsurnamethefirstofhisnam7986 Liberal silliness. Identity is important.
@@raderT90 bro humans are humans look at India they have a lot of problems because they have no race diversity also ur not 100% one race I mean that because not all white ppl are not the same soo ur probably not 100% one race check ur dna Ik ur not 100% German or French
I am a Brazilian immigrant and I would be ok with my daughter marrying a black dude in general. But, if the dude were specifically a black American I would honestly be concerned. There’s a rot within the black American community the black Americans just fail to acknowledge. In other words I would be ok with my daughter marrying a black Brazilian, a black Jamaican, a black Dominican or any black man from anywhere in the world but I would be concerned if the dude were a black American. I am speaking in general terms, of course, because it all comes down to the individual level and what family the individual was raised in.
This is how black Americans are perceived by most Latinos by the way. Black Americans just don’t leave a good impression to us foreigners. Black Americans come across as very racist too.
As a pure European-American, I would not want a third-world latino living in my neighborhood (you probably couldn't afford it anyway). Stick with your kind.
@@ColorMatching you're pathetic, brother.
@@ColorMatching In my opinion, it is always a mistake to generalize about any population of people and apply that to a specific individual. So yes that is the point that Dr. Murray is making. But what possible benefit does your comment contribute to this discourse? Let’s not make hateful comments and instead disagree respectfully.
@@anthonydhan Are you guys fine with him not allowing his daughter to date an African-American?
@@ColorMatching I think decisions about who to marry for oneself or for one’s progeny should be left to each person. The reasons for their decision may or may not be racist. In any case who is harmed? If they deny themselves or their progeny advantageous marriages as the result of racial prejudice, they only harm themselves. I was objecting more to the tone, and what seemed to me, a hate-filled response. This is clearly a sensitive area, and wouldn’t it be better to encourage more discourse that can result in enlightenment of more folks if we don’t attack people for their honest opinions? I think it’s ok to disagree. I only wish that we do so with more civility.
Coleman, why do you interpret a desire to have grand children that look like you to be racist? Racism is the assertion that one race is inherently superior to another. Having a preference that your children look like you and can fit into your culture is not an assertion of superiority, it's a preference.
Wow u rite
It's not only a preference, it might be genetical to want your offsprings to look like you.
Why does it matter that grand children “look like you”?
@@MelGibsonFan
Because it's normal and healthy behaviour. Humans, like all species are programmed to pass on their own genes and to have a fundamental distrust of "the other".
Nothing to vilify about it.
@@cauliflowersupremacist8789 That doesn’t answer the question though. You’re kind of just asserting that it’s “normal” and “healthy” then trampling all over the is/ought distinction.
Lol. Not even gonna get into the thinly veiled shit in your avatar.
Props for having the guts to have this discussion. I dont think humans on the whole, have the kind of maturity to react to it in a non knee-jerk reaction, though.
true, but what are we going to do then?
What do you say to the person saying "blacks are underrepresented in academia and higher positions in tech companies"?
If you acknowledge group differences, you risk white power idiots using that for their ends.
If you don't, you will always hear "america is a racist country" and "whites are opressors" and have black power idiots.
And because you can never fixthe problem and help the actual people (because you can not even acknowledge the problem), this does not go away.
"forbidden" knowledge is always dangerous. These things have to be studied. We can talk about solutions and so on afterwards, that is where values come in. But making research and knowledge itself taboo is insanely dangerous and unamerican
Yeah, you'll have to forgive us for having no patience with white supremacist pseudoscience.
@@matthewharris8819 Some Jewish populations score highest in IQ tests. Even if that wasn't the case, it is irrelevant. In sort of democratic nations there's the responsability for the average individual to model the world in order to take the best possible choice. That includes a good model of intelligence itself, and differences between arbitrary or not groups are what is found. Its absurd to believe that everything someone says is false because they are from whatever ideology or is perceived as such.
@@businessproyects2615 Group level statistics are absolutely useless. They don't tell us anything useful. There is always a distribution, and you have no idea where an individual person falls on that distribution until you test them individually. And nothing changes their civil and legal rights.
The only use that anyone has for group level statistics is to justify atrocities. That's certainly what Charles Murray is after.
@@matthewharris8819 Is useful to avoid atrocities too, the greatest atrocities in history were Marxist ones, not the ones you are thinking about. The Marxists in the Soviet Union thought every difference was due to explotation, that meant that people who just worked harder or otherwise earnt it in their own way without exploiting anybody ended up being shot. There's the argument to be made that in fact denying biological realities leads to the reasoning that every difference which is biologic is due to explotation AKA evil.
Its obviously absurd to think that everything is biology, but the fact remains, if you try to hide biology what is left?. Evil?.
I'm from the uk. I'm older. I grew up watching happy days and movies like back to the future. I was in awe of how fun and happy certain American communities were. In Europe after the war we had political and economic strife. We had active far left terrorism and the cold war was above our heads All the time. We marvelled at American drive inns, the dazzle of law vegas. The amazing opportunities in new york. The razzle and dazzle of new York. The surfing culture in California. The beauty and escapism of Alaska. We all looked at America and was so jealous at how they have a heaven away from the coal face of the cold war. Europe was broke and had so many problems. Anyway, today it breaks my heart that America is tearing itself apart. Destroying itself. Such a beautiful fun country. Yes there were problems but slowly changed were being made. Please protect what you have built.
Lmao, that wasn't reality, it was propaganda.
Life in Europe has always been much better than in the US. American culture is poison. Racial division and never even achieved the basic welfare and workers' rights shit that Europe attained 70 years ago.
It started with the destruction of education by Marxists.
You’re the man Colman! Much love!
Both gentlemen here are making excellent points. Coleman is right that the world is not a rational place, and that many people will handle these sorts of facts about IQ & race poorly. On the other hand, Charles is absolutely right too. Some very misguided people, as well as some quite devious people, have already set the place on fire with the Woke madness. So we need to explain why we actually don't live in a systemically racist society, and that will entail expounding on some difficult truths, unfortunately. The fire needs to be put out - and hopefully the Rubicon hasn't been passed yet.
Nice summation!
We have crossed that Rubicon.
The problem is that our society is built on the illusion that ethnicities want to live together. They don't.
It doesn't matter if you're black or white. Ethnicities want to be separate. Wokism is an attack on "whiteness" exactly for this reason.
@@jeupater1429 I don’t think this has to do with ethnicity, much more with culture.
@@yuliadubov2964 well I'm sorry but the idea that it's all just cultural aspects is not sufficient to explain findings in the literature. On average ppl even tend to choose friends that are more genetically similar to themselves than would be expected by the medium population, even among the same ethnicity, there's no cultural basis for this. Yet, it is completely congruent with Dawkins selfish gene theory. And same can be said for mate selection. Genes want to reproduce themselves not just the organism. The fact is ppl with only rudimentary understanding of genetics almost always undervalue the importance of genes, when in reality, lacking knowledge in genetics, they don't have an educated opinion.
Imagine a conversation between Coleman Hughes and Lex Fridman. Imagine staying awake through the whole thing.
😂😂😂
Sometimes you just have to bump that speed up. I have to listen at 1.2 and 1.5 most the time.
I would love it
Electronic Ambien.
@@liamwinter4512 1.75 for me
The reality is that America is not systemically racist, and the lower numbers of achievement and perseverance in career fields are more complex than simply a racial issue. There is a push to get more females into STEM fields. What the studies found is that the lower numbers in STEM fields didn't come from lower opportunities or discriminatory practices it was simply preferences. So that comes back to individual preferences. Affirmative action has been proven to push black kids out of engineering majors by pushing the students into tier 1 colleges like MIT instead of a state college with a good engineering program.
The biggest problem we have in America is that our political parties are exacerbating and exaggerating racial issues in America. The democratic party has created a situation that has destroyed black families, neighborhoods, and cities, Now as they are on the eve of blacks realizing this, democrats have begun pushing "systemic racism" as a cover story. This is the cruelest thing ever. To try to convince blacks that they have no chance in America because of their skin color when all indicators say otherwise.
I agree with Dr Murry, we are headed for trouble.
@Bart Roberts Not around the world. Rwhanda is rising economically along with many other countries in Africa. Economists predict that Africa will be the faster growing economy in the 21st century. Moreover, many Uber Educated Africans from Kenya are taking up positions in academia, tech, and medicine along the west coast. As foreign workers, they are not given Affermative action and are held to the same standards as South or East Asian Foreign workers. One of these Kenyans was actually my Calculus professor, and he taught the subject better than all other professors in my whole university.
@Bart Roberts You need to travel outside the US and talk to black people in other countries… then you will realize that this “systemic racism” by design is mostly uniquely American.
I'll steal Brett Weinstein's argument and say that we're living in the wake of systemic racism rather than active systemic racism. Almost no one in wider society is aggressively openly promoting racial preferences against traditional minorities (although they certainly are against "white" people now).
However, we are still dealing with a very real legacy of a number of different but overlapping systems with racism deeply involved within them. Which is doubly crippling because we can't actually get to the people who are responsible or treat the problem at the root, and yet we still live with the consequences.
However, the IQ issue can also be concomitantly true. So, as ever, focusing on the rights of the individual is paramount. Any other action chains people together unfairly-and I intend that entendre because the rationales that lead to it are the same in any collectivism. White supremacy or wokism. Doesn't matter.
@Samuel Pierce Again, these foreign students from Kenya are not given Affermative action. They have to have higher GPA, SAT, and TOEFL (Test of English as a Foreign Language) scores than US natives to get into the same Unis. Those metrics are not some pieces of paper, they are metrics. Also, most of these Kenyans come from esteemed, rigorous, private schools set up in Kenya. They control for grade inflation and have international accreditation (not mills). If anything, GPA from US schools should absolutely be thrown out due to massive grade inflation, grade inflation not seen in East Asian or Private African schools.
@@user-ef4gf7rr9r Sure, its a rose by any other name. I find it perplexing, but understandable that those who yell loudest about racism and racist them selves. It makes no sense to blame everyone of one race for the sins of the distant past. The Black community has been so crippled by the very one's they believe are trying to help them. Today they are at a point where being treated equally is not enough, retribution is the order of the day. My assessment is that the democrats and media have spent decades telling them they will never get ahead because of their skin color that they cannot conceive of their own way.
Watch Jared Taylor about race and IQ. If people are different based on genetics and certain demographics are prone to diseases at a higher rate than others, then why is it ludacris to believe that genetics, race, and IQ are not linked? For example, Asians appear advanced in Mathematics and technology, hence Asia markets dominate the global technology market. Why is Africa a mess?
Terrible argument. Missing so many variables
If skin cells has different selection pressures on different continents, surely nerve cells can have different selective pressures. Coleman Hughes an outlier in his cohort and unfortunately he's not representative of the average or we would not have the discrepancy we see today.
Objective fact has to be the baseline for the debate or else we will have a dissonance between wishful thinking and objective reality. It's from this dissonance that wokeness find its nourishment as it seeks to explain the gap by introducing ideas such as "structural racism" to explain why there's a difference in outcome, given a presumption of equal input. The next generation of antiracism has to confront the fact that there's an unequal input because of historical evolution pressures and work from there, without factually false presumptions or to rely on social constructivism to wish away (individual and group) human variance. We also have to apply Hume's Law and stop conflating intelligence (is) with human dignity (ought). As long as everyone contributes to society it's secondary if they contribute as street sweepers or as software engineers.
@@LeonardTavast this is so painfully obvious I don’t see how people reject it. It’s the truth, it’s evident and manifests in every way possible. People insert their own wishful thinking and ignore what stands before them.
@@Kevin-kj5thThere is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so.
Because race isn't based on genetics. People categorized as white don't share a lot of genetics. You share a phenotype, not genetics. People categorized as black also don't share a lot of genetics. Again it's phenotype not genetics which is shared.
IQ can be genetic, and also be independent of phenotype. So why are we looking at phenotype when asking questions about IQ? We aren't looking at genetics. You aren't asking these test takers to take a genetic test, and showing that different genetic mixes are getting different scores. For that reason it's unscientific because I don't even know the genes of "average white" or "average black" in those statistics.
Just seeing the responses to this video shows me most people aren't very scientific and putting this mainstream is only promoting more ignorance on genetics.
Far more interesting than IQ differences among groups is average personality differences (and the heritability of said differences). Hopefully more research comes out on impulsivity, sociopathy, excitability, etc.
Testosterone and aggression
Temperament can be bred into dogs within a few generations, it isn't outlandish to posit that disparate populations developed different behavioral patterns over time. Then that culture ingrained these through sexual selection of those patterns.
Yeah, I’d rate these as “equally interesting” or “equally important”.
I’ve lived in two parts of the world, North America and East Asia. I can see differences in personality traits between Western/European people and Eastern people. There are relationships between the personalities of the people and the economies and governments the people create. There’s much yet to be rigorously studied about the variation in human nature and the effects on large-scale social phenomena.
@@30803080308030803081 Culture is formed by history, and an individual’s behavior is shaped to a large extent by cultural influences. It would be extremely surprising if disparate ethnic groups did not exhibit different behavior at the individual level.
Do you have any links to research or helpful overview articles?
Our inability as a culture to accept these simple, hard truths has resulted in a large push for CRT.
You obviously know nothing about crt and it’s origins. Please tell me it’s tenets and it’s origins. I’m almost certain you’ll get it wrong, like every other white person who hopped on the anti CRT bandwagon.
@@Jay_Em10 careful, your obvious racist attitude toward white people is showing in a public forum. Must be why you don’t use your real name. Wow, racism and cowardice do go together.
@@christopherwhitehurst9090 correcting a blatant mischaracterization of a theory that addresses the affects of institutionalized anti black racism throughout American history is quite the opposite.
You wouldn’t dare be so stupid to call a Jewish person racist for calling out a German who undermines the affects of the Holocaust through curriculum . But look. I’m not so foolish to assume that a white person could shed himself of white superiority complex to humbly understand a theory about the effects of black suffering.
FYI. MLK influenced critical race theory. Do your research.
CRT has roots in Critical Theory, and posits that US institutions are inherently racist / serve the purpose of oppressing people of color. Like all Marxist intellectual movements, it emphasizes the relationship between an oppressing group and an oppressed group.
The problem is that you can't empirically prove what percent of differences among groups of people are due to systemic racism vs. cultural behaviors vs. genetic characteristics vs anything else.
If you want to teach CRT, it is also necessary to teach The Bell Curve and analyze differences between prosperous/degenerate cultural practices. Our biases are going to lead us to accept one theory over the others by default, but it is dishonest to claim with certainty that one theory above all else explains everything.
I'll close by stating the obvious, that nothing ever good resulted from the implementation of Marxist thought. The 20th century is a bloody reminder. Nothing changes just because you dress it up as the correct way to promote racial equality. Stop lying to yourself and accept some responsibility for your actions.
@@snakyjake9 critical race theory has roots in critical legal studies (CLS) which has roots in critical theory. Get it right. Also, it has nothing to do with Marxism. The theory originated from a black law professor named Derrick Bell during his time at Harvard law. It has nothing to do with Marxism. The ignorance on this topic is mimicking mass hysteria.
"What else could it be?" Why can't it be culture? Black immigrants to the US do well academically.
Immigrants are not a representative sample of the population. That example doesn’t work.
African immigrants, largely, find Afro Americans inferior. Their parents don’t approve of intermarriage.
@@foxbodyblues6709 I think he meant the same person that said no on a survey would say yes if it was more specific to African immigrants.
@@blakesleyk.7166 they often attribute this supposed superiority to their genetic differences and cultural traits- until you point out that they fled countries where their people run everything to go to countries where they don’t.
@@mrs.americanpie2079 I’m lifelong leftist. Lifelong student of history. Yes, we agree. How’s the failed state of Liberia faring y’all?
Coleman, c'mon, you're not fooling anyone with that thumbnail. We all know you'll maintain your meditative demeanor throughout the entire interview.
The general problem is; multi-cultural societies are dysfunctional. In other words, cultural diversity is decided not a strength. Cultural diversity pits one culture against another in a never-ending and impossible battle to attain financial equality.
Except that Egypt was a multi-cultural society and so was Rome. Anyone in the Roman Empire who had the money could buy citizenship (any many did). The Roman Legions were mixed with mercenary Goths and other Germanic soldiers. Most people who say "multi-cultural societies are dysfunctional" know very little about actual history.
@@jonothandoeser I do not know why you think your are describing a society that could be termed as "functional" by the standards of modern societies.
@@WhtetstoneFlunky Actually, I'm not talking about "societies", I'm talking about some of the longest-lasting Civilizations in the West. In fact, these were the Civilizations that later Civilizations copied and borrowed from, because they were so successful.
@@jonothandoeser
Instead of criticizing her comment you should learn a little bit about history yourself.
You referring too, the Roman Empire when it was in decline that we see multiculturalism.
Ancient Egypt like wise , although the fall of Egypt is officially dated as from the end of the 25th Dynasty, in reality the true ancient Egyptians had vanished more than 200 years earlier.
So basically multiculturalism is a downfall of a foundation based on its founding roots.
@@jonothandoeser Okay, I'll use the term "civilizations". In the Roman Empire different ethnic and religious demographics were treated differently. That is what I mean by "dysfunctional by modern standards". What was good then will not fly now. By my definition, America was dysfunctional in 1800 due to slavery. There were different ethnic demographics treated differently even though it was largely accepted then and therefore few protesters in the streets.
Real conversation about the meat and potatoes!!
YEEESSS!!!
Thank you for your bravery Coleman for entertaining these tough subjects..👏👏👏👏👏
What needs to be looked at is how welfare is structured to encourage fatherless homes.
People did look at it at the time welfare was expanded and they didn’t know what to do about it then and likely not now. When it was economically more advantageous to have the father gone from the home, blacks fathers did that in significant numbers. But the problem was more complex than that also.
Look to Africa for clarity around that. They have a different reproductive strategy that is matriarchal in character, if not polyamorous and kids are usually raised by the whole community. Small, monogamous nuclear families arose out of evolution in very cold environments. Monogamous marriage is not historically part of the African reproductive strategy, and it still has incredibly low adherence across the world, compared to Germanic, Scandic, and Celtic whites.
@@chasethehorizonx So the question remains of whether having a father in the home has broad economic and social ramifications.
@@chasethehorizonx Perhaps in Africa, but look how the Black family changed in the US following the institution of welfare and the incentivization of fatherless homes. Actually, not just Black families. White families on welfare also tended towards fatherlessness.
@@tedmom3029 it depends on how the society is structured, and what kind of goals you are putting on that society. In a western technological society? Absolutely? In a cold-weather society that lives off of the land? Yes.
In a society that lives in food belt with 24-7 sunshine, that lacks technology or a vested survival interest in it? Probably not. Hence the evolutionary reproductive strategy of Africans and other equatorial people, which lacks distinct nuclear family structures.
That thumbnail is hilarious
Coleman has gone full click bait? Seems to be working..
@@thetshirtblog
I think the thumbnail is Colemans way of poking fun at those who freak out, when speaking about these topics, since nowhere in the discussion does he act like that ^^.
“Among blacks, 76% of self-described conservatives, 71% of moderates, and 76% of liberals favor affirmative action programs for minorities.” (Gallup)
African Americans do not subscribe to individualism, they are very tribal and collectivist, but they’re happy if other groups, mainly White, are individualists. Their support for the discrimination of Whites and Asians via affirmative action hovers around 72% (Gallup, 2019) over the last 20 years.
“Common ancestry, common culture, common environment - all these factors contribute to the genomes of individuals of the same ethnic groups.”
-CBS New, “Culture etched on our DNA…”2017
An important discussion. Thanks for this, Coleman.
People have different talents beyond cognitive ability but this conversation was awesome. I read Charles Book and recommend it. Thanks Coleman for giving him a forum.
Your thumbnail is priceless. It really complements those two veins on either side of your head I'd never seen before. Happy to become a financial supporter of your work.
I am French, I don't know what is happening in USA but I feel that the republic value is going to be destroyed if we don't do anything..
We did a WWII because comunism and fascism... Don't do the same mistake
Charles Murray takes risks, speaks truth to power, and has my full support and respect.
He's an old, sly, provocative grifter.
@@stephencarter7266 how so?
@@hiroe6350 Because he won't (seriously)touch the influence big media (tv, films and advertising) has in creating and maintaining identity.
There are way too many holes in his theories for a smart guy like Murray to take them seriously.
He's packaging and peddling a bundle of talking points designed to drown out debate (not encourage it).
Only in a dumbed down america could he even get away with his hamfisted scholarship.
@@stephencarter7266 Could you elaborate, seems like those things would just help his argument. It's not arbitrary or in a vacuum that the Smithsonian created a document illustrating a white/black dichotomous morality.
@@bradspitt3896 What do you want me to elaborate? What's not arbitrary or in a vacuum, and in what context are you referring to.
I’ve never seen Coleman so animated
He knows what he's doing is scary, and he's scared.
I don't like it. He reminded me, for the first time, of someone who thinks their passion ought to count for something in the balance of reasons. Maybe he IS scared, but why should he be riled up about what this very considerate man is saying.
Don't be common, Coleman.
@Epic T I only saw this 10 minute clip but that's not what he was talking about. He was talking about Murray's research and whether it should be out there. The 20% thing was just to illustrate that there reasons in culture to suspect that there are people ready to misuse it
@@philipmoss4027 I don't think that Coleman's being at all 'common.' What he's saying is right: someone's bound to take part of Murray's thesis and yell 'racist' or something, completely distracting from the (serious) question Murray's asking, stirring up trouble instead. That Coleman has him on at all and speaks to his thought seriously shows that this is a serious matter, and human ulterior motives have played a part in all of it that we need to beware. In Shakespeare's _Julius Caesar,_ Marc Antony stirs up the crowd with emotion and they go off on a rampage. The Gracchus brothers in the late Roman Republic were treated just that way, the Senate stirring up the crowd with emotions, and Tiberius Gracchus was murdered by them. Crowds are dangerous, and Coleman knows this. Thus his caution and concern.
@@craigsmith1443 By common, I meant bringing emotionalism to the argument. The subtext, in the common behavior I'm referring to is something like, "I am HURT by what you're saying. So hurt that it would be pretty much indecent for you to continue to defend your position." We've all seen the professionally aggrieved use this tactic, and lots of young people try it out too. But it's bad intellectual hygiene, and I hope it's not something that Coleman would want to traffic in.
There have been numerous studies on race & IQ, there is a difference Globally.
How many black Geniuses can you name / who Invents Advanced Technologies / who flies $1M fighter planes / who is usually NFL quarterback ?
Brave of you to cover such a controversial topic- especially these days -bravo
In his book “democracy in America“, Alexis de Tocqueville states that his biggest fear in the longevity of the United States was the Black people on its soil… He understood that these two people groups were so different that assimilation was nearly impossible. This was in 1839, when he wrote this book.
He didn't address the root cause. Only the reaction.
@@NanakiRowancheap cotton is the most expensive thing Western Civilization has ever had to endure
@@TheOpenSociety777 Not according to history and economics.
@@NanakiRowan Now run the numbers on crime , violence and civic disunity
@@TheOpenSociety777 I did. It's not the group you think it is. I suspect you know this, which is why you're thumbs upping all your comments (insecurity in knowing that you're wrong).
We don't live in a reasonable world, but discussion about this topic is imperative due to several reasons. I would agree that there were no mass immigration into America, no policy of racial preferences and if the left wasn't so anti-White, talking about this topic would be at best redundant and at worst destructive for society. But that is not the situation we are in. The left themselves create the need for the discussion of this uncomfortable topic due to the policies they push.
Truth
Yep, the left has forced us to have this discussion.
@@billsimms2511 “the left forced me to legitimize nazi talking points”
@Heinrich Heinrich you people are perpetual victims
@Heinrich Heinrich the fact that u used that term shows that you’re not to be taken seriously 😭
This was a very insightful and civil conversation, good job guys!!!
God damn I have mad respect for MrHughes ! He has such sincere intellectual integrity.
Jated Diamond argues in his book Guns, Germs and Steel that Europeans and Asians got an enormous head start because of geography:
some plants lend themselves to agriculture by producing energy-dense seeds which are easily harvested and which have a long shelf life after drying
the Mediterranean climate was ideal for growing these plants
Europe/Asia has a long east/west strip which allowed agriculture to propagate
the Americas have regions with the same climate, but the dominant axis is north/south so those areas are separated and constrained; agriculture wasn't able to propagate the same way
the Indigenous Australians could never have invented agriculture because the domesticatable plants simply weren't present, likewise with many other places
agriculture meant that an individual could generate more food than they required, which enabled specialisation and a division of labour, which in turn enabled innovation
certain types of animals lend themselves to domestication (especially important is a herding instinct); almost all these animals were present in Europe/Asia, and absent elsewhere
domesticated livestock added to the food surplus, and added mobility
living at close quarters with the domesticated livestock led to disease transmission, and after some time a "herd immunity" within the human population; the indigenous peoples who were later invaded had not acquired such immunity and were heavily impacted by diseases brought by colonists/conquerors
On top of that, the alphabet was invented in the Mediterranean region whixh enabled transmission of knowledge, which enabled growth of knowledge, which imparted military abd commercial advantage
With these advantages, the rest of the world didn't have a chance. At least, not for the first 10,000 years. But oil became incredibly important a bit over a century ago, and the existing empires were absolutely smashed by WWI. We're at the beginning of a new chapter. A Chinese diplomat was asked what he thought of the French Revolution and he replied, "It's too early to tell". That's probably pretty true.
I sometimes chuckle how complex of thought processes are needed to explain common sense conclusions
Most likely because of the need to carefully couch ones words in order to not get burned at the stake.
1. It takes much more time and effort to correct a wrong than it does to commit it.
2. Even when one carefully explains one's position, too many refuse to accept it and would rather see a villain and enemy in their midst than a potential friend saying a hard truth. It's easier to use napalm than build a school.
@@craigsmith1443 here here! I'll add to that by saying it's easier to tear down a statue rather than erecting a complimentary plaque or accompanying statue demonstrating how we learned from our past to commemorate our progress & willingness to learn more...
Because people are so cynical and predetermine your guilt, so you have to perfectly lay out your argument if you're going against the grain, while those same people are charitable to others who share their identity and hold those beliefs to lesser scrutiny.
@@bradspitt3896 I agree. The difference in argument between the two in the video is that one is at least honest about the nature of the problem. The current explanation for the disparities, that is allowed to take root without any explanation from black conservatives as to why there is this disparity, relies on blaming whites unequivocally for racism. This is done by allowing the notion that racism, which whites supposedly are solely creating, is responsible for all forms of inequality. So to suggest that revelations of IQ and race being connected is more harmful than we currently have is intellectual dishonesty among black conservatives, as the result of the current narrative creates more damage than any foreseeable consequences of simply recognising racial disparities in IQ or athleticism. The same consequences of IQ averages would also be felt regarding whites to East Asians, as East Asians have a higher IQ than whites by average. So the fact that the whites that promote IQ and its association to race, in the same way that they would with athleticism in association to race, show who is being the most impartial regarding this conversation. Simply because something looks less favourable to our self image in that area, doesn't give us the right to deny the need for the pursuit of truth, irrespective of if the revelation doesn't meet our social standards or contemporary beliefs. If we held the view that feelings mattered more than truth, we would put faith above reason and not question the nature of our existence through the sciences. People shouldn't be persecuted or put to the stake as they were in the past because certain individuals cannot handle criticism of their personal belief through critical evaluation in the same way that understanding racial differences shouldnt result in racial persecution of races.
First, kudos for addressing this at all. That takes guts.
Second, if I could suggest one area for students to be given a better understanding of, it would be statistics.
That said, I'd be open about what the research shows. Even though we haven't eliminated confounding factors. Even knowing some people are going to be stupid about it. Even though there are other answers for different outcomes that I think Murray missed (culture and childhood nutrition come to mind). Don't present it as settled science regarding intelligence, but it deserves to be taught as evidence that individuals should consider regarding IQ, because regardless of how much IQ actually corresponds to intelligence, IQ definitely correlates with success in America.
Why? Because that opens the door to explaining to people what that means. It's like sex ed; kids are going to hear it, and we want to influence how it's heard. We don't want The Daily Stormer (or The Root) to be the first place people hear about this. Do some kids end up pregnant as a result of sex ed telling them about inserting tab A into slot B? I'd imagine so. But I think it helps a lot more than it hurts.
Logic needs data like a lever needs a fulcrum. This research provides White supremacists with ammunition, but they're duds. We already know how to answer those talking points. Whites don't top those IQ charts, and any White supremacist using this as ammunition can be challenged as to whether they're Asian supremacists too. Anybody suggesting they should hire White people just to get a smarter person on average can be challenged on whether or not they should hire tall people, because there's a firm correlation between height and IQ. And thanks to the Flynn effect, the Greatest Generation would, IIRC, score in the 80s on today's tests. This is a valuable tool to push treating people as individuals.
And, finally, news organizations have frequently stopped giving descriptions or pictures of suspects, and this has lead a lot of people to assume that the suspects are Black. Often, wrongly. Prejudice, from what I've seen, will too often fill any space where people are afraid to shine a light.
Thank you for this conversation Coleman
One thing that annoys me about the racial IQ averages subject ... it's a measure of groups, not of an individual. If you're smart, you're smart. If you're charming, you're charming. You are who you are, and your abilities are what they are.
But people take these things personally, as if some average of a million strangers changes the facts about who they are and what they can do. It often affects the initial assumptions of people who you meet, but those assumptions which should be immediately dispelled and/or suspended with any meaningful interaction.
We need to dispel ignorance, but it seems the policy dujour is to shoehorn in more ignorance instead.
FFS, find something you like doing, practice, and get paid doing it.
Regardless if the studies are actually true enough, it is infuriating when people use broad sociological trends to dictate how they treat others. Sjws and some right wing people do this, they dont see individuals they see group identity
Now put a bunch of ethnicities together in a city and ask yourself again how this is relevant.
Because group dynamics govern societal progress, cultural decline, & politics.
@@southafricanizationofsociety20 In a general sense, that's true. My complaint is about people taking these things personally, as individuals.
But small differences in group characteristics can have major societal effects. An example of thus would be the fact that every white created country is great while Africa sucks
The "would I allow my son/daughter to marry someone of another race" question has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with attitude and exposure.
You are just setting yourself up for added difficulty to marry outside race. Life can be difficult enough. Also, your progeny will have issues. I’d rather go around boulders in my path then try to remove them. Put your boat in the water downstream.
good video brother. This was needed!
Thank you for having on Charles Murphy.
I am deeply grieved over the agenda that I see being calculated with the _INTENTIONAL_ consequence to divide a diverse and culturally beautiful nation; whose flag represents ethnic groups from all around the globe; including the indigenous.
First - PERSPECTIVE using only facts!
Since the Civil Rights movement ended the ban on interracial marriage in 1967 we can see on the 2010 census that:
Interracial marriages DOUBLED by 1980 and DOUBLED AGAIN in 2008!
Per population numbers, BLACKS marrying WHITES = _TRIPLED!_
WHITES TO BLACK = _DOUBLED!_
2010 Census Shows Multiple-Race Population (INTERRACIAL CHILDREN) Grew Faster Than ANY Single-Race Population:
Four groups were the largest multiple-race combinations, each _exceeding 1 million people in size,_
*white and black (1.8 million),
*white and “hispanic” (1.7 million),
*white and Asian (1.6 million) and
*white and American Indian and Alaska Native (1.4 million).
I am in an interracial marriage now for 42 wonderful years. My 3 children, 8 grandchildren have dated and married whoever treated them with respect. Our family now represents AMERICANS: BLACK, WHITE, EAST INDIAN, PACIFIC ISLANDER, & SPANISH.
Dividing the statistics by Democrat v Republican is, well, divisive!
But as AMERICANS:
The narrative coming at us, 24-7 is that "White mankind hates Black/Melanin mankind and white mankind devised a system for everyone else to fail.
When we voted for Obama, a whopping 65% of whites voted for him. 1/3 of Congress is also not white! And proportionate to their population.
Our country is filled with very successful Black persons who looked at their current plight of poverty or, just wanting more, and through their sheer will and self-determination became a success - at whatever they enjoyed (money does NOT determine success). Others took advantage of Black School Grants, Black College Scholarships, Black only Business programs, Black community outreach, and Affirmative Action.
Maybe the difference is CULTURE? FAMILY?
White culture to kids:
_"No one owes you a thing, life isn't fair so be prepared to be kicked to the curb. But Character is built when the world is against you and you learn from your mistakes and never repeat them! Take pride in all you do even if that is cleaning toilets!"_
Black to black marriages in 1967 was 61%.
Today: 32% !
That's a lot of young men and women who no longer view the family unit as a priority.
Many of the smartest and most successful men will tell you they never finished high school or went to college. They were self read and taught. They made friends with smarter people.
The problems we face to day is an AGENDA that portrays Melanin AS STUPID, VICTIMS, and NEED TO BE CARED FOR! That's insulting!
The answer is to unite!
There is nothing wrong with wanting to preserve your ethnic identity. Nothing at all.
Sure as long as you don't try to interfere with what I got going.
@@stephencarter7266 As long as your thing is the marginal thing otherwise you lose your identity in total diversity; homogeneity.
@@bradspitt3896 If by "marginal thing" you mean nordic women with cute feet and breath like carnation milk, then I'm all for it.
Otherwise I have no idea what you're talking about
@@stephencarter7266 I just meant that the majority of relationships are same race/culture/ethnicity and the tails of the curve are interracial.
@@bradspitt3896 A loss of identity can _only_ by found in the _center mass_ of the Bell Curve.
I'm not sure what you're driving at.
If he had not published this book, someone would have done it anyways, and without such a gracious preface. Might as well be this author.
Good point.
I can't wait to listen to the whole interview. P.S. I subscribed
It’s your culture, not your race, that people find objectionable.
Wow is that ever the truth!! 👍👍
I take exception to Mr. Murray's comment that it's mainly blacks that have decided it's time for identity politics - I believe it's mainly liberal elites of all races that have decided to push identity politics. If you want to subdivide that group by race, then I would argue that the largest race-based subgroup is white liberal elites that push identity politics. This is the core problem with most discussions of this nature, we allow them to be framed in terms of race - which is a social construct - instead of ignoring race and describing the actual group that is pushing the agenda.
Once you engage in defining people by race in any discussion, then you lose the point you were trying to make.
I do agree with most of what you say accept that race is a “social construct”. Why isn’t birds a “social construct”? To be able to communicate, humans needs to classify things and put words on it otherwise it’s just grunts. Other than that, great text. 😁
@@jonahn1841 Birds aren’t even comparable to the _human_ race because they have vast differences in size, ability, lifestyle, and more. Ethnic subgroups are nowhere near as simple as the modern “white”, “black”, “hispanic”, “asian”, etc., and we’re all incredibly similar. New, more accurate classifications should become mainstream.
@@jonahn1841 IMHO - It's a social construct to the extent we are relying on minor physical differences within the same species to separate groups. Example - why aren't people with naturally occurring red hair, fair skin and freckles considered a separate race, rather than designated as "white". We chose skin color for societal reasons - not because there is any inherent biological differences between us. This is different from designating species - like eagles versus owls - where they can't procreate across species.
@@beamsgr Mostly because race is a proxy for saying 'genetic stock which originated in X geographic area', it just happens that hair color is a far less useful indicator than skin color + facial features.
While you’re wrong about race being a social construct, I agree with the point you were making. I’m a white American, and I sure have known plenty of white Americans who totally believe in the neo-Marxist racial ideology that makes white people into the bad people. I think a motivation for a white person to believe in an anti-white ideology is to gain favor with people of other races, by being extra generous and submissive to them. It’s a strategy of minimizing risks and minimizing confrontation.
Muhammed Ali also thought it was a bad idea for white people to marry black people, and probably the other way round I assume. He said his reason was esthetic but I suppose he also was thinking about cultural differences and compatibility.
The point is, just because a person holds this view, no matter if black, white, or other, it does not mean they are racist in my book, It certainly doesn't mean they necessarily think the other colour person is of less or more IQ.
These things are preferences, they need not even be logical or correct (although they might) , they just are.
There is also the possibility that the parents do not actually object to the couple marrying but caution that society could be more harsh on the children as they may not be welcomed by either black or white communities? It is one thing to decide for yourself what you will persevere, it is quite another what you will suggest that your loved ones confront.
"I am not attracted to [group X]" is personal preference, may be a sexual thing, just like someone can like partners who are blond or red haired or whatever. But "I would rather people of my group not marry people of this other group" isn't personal any more, but some kind of social or political belief. And I would say by definition it IS racist - it is the belief that certain decisions should be dominated by judgements about someone's racial group. What you mean is it doesn't need to be motivated by belief in that group's inferiority, and that much is true - you could just think that for example both groups are fine on their own but aren't very compatible culturally. But in the end if you take that reasoning to its logical end you still get stuff like ethnostates. And it completely ditches that "judging people as individuals" thing that is brought up by Murray and I agree is very important. Differences can be overcome. But if someone's personality is so thoroughly defined by their ethnicity that they're incompatible with someone of a different background, they're not a very interesting person. It's like that bit about nationalism - that it's "being proud of shit you didn't do and hate people you never met". The same goes for ethnic pride (white or otherwise). Of course you will be influenced by the culture in which you grow up. But developing your individuality means there should be a lot more to you than just that basic cultural template.
Doesn’t have to be all or nothing, you can have a preference without it being a demand
@@kreek22 Hadn't thought of it from that angle, makes sense. Haven't heard anyone explain this tbh, I wonder why?.....
@@markfernandes2467 IMO because it's bullshit. It relies on two strong assertions neither of which is scientifically very solid:
- that the major determinant of extraordinary people is their genetic disposition rather than environment, upbringing, etc., which IMO is already very shaky. Just look at how many geniuses sometimes you see in specific times and places in history, and then the same populations don't express as many geniuses only fifty years later or before (e.g. see all the great physicists in early XX century). It seems to me conditions are a lot more important, like when there's an especially prosperous and intellectually vivacious society, some people will develop their potential more
- that mixing between the entire human race could ever be so fast, thorough and complete that it utterly outpaces mutation rate and flattens genetic diversity. IMO that wouldn't happen anyway because geographic separation remains important, and well, mutations still exist, but that is at least more probable. However Africa alone has the most genetic diversity of any other place on Earth (makes sense - everyone else is just the descendants of a small group of humans that drifted out of it early on in prehistory). So even if this reasoning was true, Africa would be the one to lose out from it - and white people would have all to gain.
I disagree about any correlation between race and IQ. A) African immigrants perform as good as any race and B) post slavery blacks were incredibly smart and some could argue that despite all slavery had done, that Jim Crow was worse. If you read about black ambition and achievement right after emancipation it was very impressive.
*also i believe a hidden cause of a lot of black suffering was and is Mexican immigration taking over industries that blacks relied upon to build wealth. That and exporting manufacturing to China in the late 80s. Absolutely devastated the paths to financial success for millions of Americans, and a majority of blacks. Even now you see border counties voted for Trump cause Mexican immigration is actually hurting American Mexicans deepest. Even they see open borders for the crisis it is, but this has been going on for decades eroding many means of black success.
Good discussion; both speakers are courageous;
end of story.
Great thumbnail Coleman!
ahahah
Kudos for having the conversation.
One of the toughest ideas to talk about.
I shouldn't be talked about. It's racist and spreads division. Just like people claim critical race theory does.
@@JohnSmith-hs1hn I think everything should be open to talk about. Its the best way to find out if a claim is valid or not - providing, those engaged in the conversation are genuinely open to being proved wrong, are willing to be guided by demonstrable, supported facts, (regardless of how uncomfortable that may potentially be) and are genuine about wanting to have their views guided by objectivity and fact, more than emotion & subjectivity.
As there is a "black" culture (which, BTW, comes from parts of 17th century England and has nothing to do with the African origin of black Americans) which punishes intelligent black kids for "acting white", this explains quite a lot of the discrepancy, if not all of it.
It were funny if it weren't so sad that so-called anti-racists promote this culture as "authentic", keeping young black people down in the process. From a white supremacy perspective, this is genius. Instead of making segregation laws black people will resist, promote a culture which makes the segregation automatically.
Something has to be done and unless people see all colors and creeds coming together to oppose this, they will continue to frame it how they want. Make it so we cannot be ignored and gaslit any longer.
Fascinating conversation. I am not optimistic about the future of race relations in America. Despite all the progress and change, it seems that there’s those who want to capitalize on Generation Alpha by forcing them to have resentment or guilt or hidden animosity based on the color of their skin.
Just got Charles new book , heard of him from Glenn loury, saw him interviewed on tucker -
Knowing what we know, all those who argue that IQ as an accurate measure of “intelligence” is obviously very “intelligent”
Coleman is absolutely right about regular folks that aren't authors and intellectuals DO make these connections between a book like the Bell Curve and the idea of Black unintelligence. Normal people do t have time for the nuance.
Now Charles is logical but it leads him to dangerous territory unfortunately.
I was listening to Lex Friedman's podcast. He had Richard Haier, a neuroscience researcher on as his his guest and his hypothesis is largely the same as Charles Murray's. It is sobering, somewhat disheartening and very honest. IQ is a fact and there are differences among groups of people. The only real debate taking place, and even that isn't as much a mystery as it used to be anymore, is to what extent nature influences general IQ over nurture. Nature is very important and nurture, the environment in which we develop seems to not have as much influence as people think. It's a hard pill to swallow for me but the silver lining is that our society is at least in theory based on the proposition of equality under the law which is an expression of our social ideal. We no longer live in societies organized in castes. That is enough for me and so long as our society judges people as individuals and not as groups, with neither fear nor favor then our society will endure and thrive. If we go down the path of resentment and envy then injustice is inevitable.
Charles Murray certainly doesn't judge people as individuals
But those groups of people don't have anything genetically in common. White people aren't all from the same town in Europe, and don't all have the same genes Einstein had. So why are we assuming all white people or all black people come from the same families, have the same genes, or come from the same gene pools?
To do science you would conduct a genetic test prior to testing for IQ for each participant in the study. Race would not be a factor in a gene based IQ test. But no one wants to group by genes. Instead people are grouping by race, and that is pseudoscientific. Murry is doing pseudo science.
Would not need a military... confusing perfect and reasonable.
Holy shit can't wait to watch this!
Possibly could've mentioned the percentage of blacks who disapprove of relatives marrying whites... Or any race marrying outside of their race/culture for that matter. What percentage of Chinese or Japanese wed out of race/culture? Indians? Arabs? You can go on and on with the examples so why the focus on white people?
@Bart Roberts Hand rubbing intensifies
Here in Germany Turkish father's are forbidding their daughters to have relationships with German men. Many of them get coupled/forced into cousin marriage. One of the reason turkey is THE country for biologists, when they are looking for rare genetic defects, often caused by intermarriage.
Because they’re racist towards white peoples. Hypocrisy is blind to those who practice it.
@@k4yser Some german grandfathers are saying the same. I speak from personal experience.
Some black people are racist. Some white people are racist. It's wrong from any race.
An average European can't outrun an African Ethiopian - an average Ethiopian can't outsmart a European.
In science and philosophy, a just-so story is an untestable narrative explanation for a cultural practice, a biological trait, or behavior of humans or other animals. The pejorative nature of the expression is an implicit criticism that reminds the listener of the fictional and unprovable nature of such an explanation. Such tales are common in folklore genres like mythology.
The average European has an IQ about 30 points than the typical Ethiopean. Just a fact.
@@NanakiRowan That is a great explanation of a fallacy that I am sure will whiz right past that guys head
An average American black or white can't outrun an average Ethiopian. Genes do play a role in muscle fiber type. But genes aren't based on race. The key is Ethiopian genes, not black genes, not white genes, not "European" genes, but the Ethiopian gene for type 1 muscle fibers.
And this is a gene not all or even most black people get.
There is a huge study that was done concerning beauty. Various photos of people from all over the world, various skin tones, various facial features, etc. the photos were shown to people in a variety of countries and to a variety of people in those countries (classes). The majority of people choose the same photos to represent their idea of human beauty. Did not matter the skin tone or what nationality the photographed person was, the outcome was the same. People have preferences, we like natural better than fake, we like natural weight rather than too thin or fat. There is an old saying , “ birds of a feather flock together “, that flock maybe determined by class, education, culture, interests, religion ,or race, etc.
Identity politics ruin everything and always have. Stop assuming the democrats/republicans do this or that. I know a lot of liberals who are now voting Republican due to this identity politics game being played. Stop vilifying people for having preferences that really are just a part of our human nature. And please, we are all Americans, stop attacking people who are not in your flock, you are no better and you are not worth more. We are just different.
What is the name of the study
@@animegod1714 pornhub
@@isee7668 Best response lmao
Isn't Coleman just describing in-group preference?
It does seem like he favors black peoples feeling over truth
Yes.
@@TransparencyandMerit Are these groups anything other than arbitrary? I could for example say tall people are a group, and measure IQs, and short people maybe have lower IQ on the statistics, and this matters why?
White people are by social convention disallowed to advocate for themselves while the rest of the demographics are encouraged to do the same thing. I would not want to contribute further to the disadvantage of white people in America by producing a biracial child that will almost certainly identify as that other race and advocate against white people. I'm not totally against dating and marrying a black girl, but that is my reason for leaning away from such a thing in my own life. I don't waste time objecting too much to my family's choices. They will do what they want and that's fine.
So you care mkr about this abstract notion of white people than your own kid?
@@floritamendez3297 what an idiotic reply. I have no children. I was talking about choices I will make, and I think it’s perfectly reasonable to consider the racial demographic of which I’m a part. By the way, I only feel a need to make it any kind of priority because of the mad world in which I live, where people like me are demonized daily across all Western nations.
@@breet1516 I know you have no children. I was engaging with your hypothetical. Your saying you would not have mixed kids because they might identify stronger with the other race and advocate against white people. Why would you care more about what your hypothetical kids are going to advocate against then your own kids themselves?
@@breet1516 besides you think your white kids are not going to advocate against white people? It's mostly whit epeople in my experience who use you're a white male as an insult lol. And ethnic minorities are being educated by mostly white dominated academia and mainstream media to adopt these beliefs.
@@floritamendez3297 You’re wrong if you think it’s only white people pushing the anti-white narrative. I agree that many white people are weak and unwilling to advocate for themselves. Hence my original comment.
I think Murray is right when he says that this signals the end of the American experiment. Not because races are unequal, but rather because the experiment is built on the wishful and unscientific idea that they are. America's inability to deal with the reality of human differences is the main driving force behind the country's continuing descent into chaos, despite having enacted some of the most sweeping and successful advances in human rights that the earth has ever seen. This paradox takes some time to absorb, but it is undeniably, empirically the case. The more the U.S. advances in its goals, and the more sincerely it tries to make things right, the faster it will descend into hell.
The reality of human differences is that humans evolve. If America is descending into chaos, it's because it can't break the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
As Thomas Sowell writes about, IQs of groups change over time.
Indeed. The Scots of 800 years ago were rather ignorant brutes - and the Scots of 300 years ago established many of the foundations of modernity. One thing people have a hard time understanding about natural selection is that it can work remarkably quickly, sometimes producing huge changes in just a few generations.
Of course that can work in both directions: the question is whether there is an environment which rewards those who are highly capable and intelligent, or an environment such as we have had for about fifty years now which punishes those who are highly capable and intelligent.
You get more of what you subsidize, and you get less of what you punish - and fifty years ago we decided to subsidize poverty and punish success.
I don’t think Charles Murray said it was permanent. He did say this is the way things exist now. I may be mistaken. I think some cultures don’t allow expansion by not allowing different ideas permeate their culture. I often was accused of acting white while in middle school because I carried a backpack and studied. Skiing was something only white people did, etc.
Read about Flynn and reverse Flynn phenomenon. If there is no selection pressure for high IQ individuals to procreate and low IQ individuals to vanish. This does not happen the past 50 years. In fact welfare state, healthcare, scientific progress etc allows individuals of lower IQ to make more offspring than those with high IQ. Idiocracy is as threatening of a problem as overpopulation and climate change.
@@Lalakis - I find it ironic that the Flynn Effect was evident precisely for the decades when eugenics programs were common throughout the western world, and appear to have started a reversal about the time those programs were ended about fifty years ago.
Of course this is never publicly acknowledged by anyone who's anyone.
What do you know, an engaging and thoughtful conversation in 2021!? And both make great points? I love when conversations about these types of things that are considered untouchable by the orthodoxy aren't carried out to be edgy or rebellious for the sake of rebellion, but instead to get closer to the truth.
I love this man's honesty. He has good intentions, which is made clear in this video.
Jated Diamond argues in his book Guns, Germs and Steel that Europeans and Asians got an enormous head start because of geography:
some plants lend themselves to agriculture by producing energy-dense seeds which are easily harvested and which have a long shelf life after drying
the Mediterranean climate was ideal for growing these plants
Europe/Asia has a long east/west strip which allowed agriculture to propagate
the Americas have regions with the same climate, but the dominant axis is north/south so those areas are separated and constrained; agriculture wasn't able to propagate the same way
the Indigenous Australians could never have invented agriculture because the domesticatable plants simply weren't present, likewise with many other places
agriculture meant that an individual could generate more food than they required, which enabled specialisation and a division of labour, which in turn enabled innovation
certain types of animals lend themselves to domestication (especially important is a herding instinct); almost all these animals were present in Europe/Asia, and absent elsewhere
domesticated livestock added to the food surplus, and added mobility
living at close quarters with the domesticated livestock led to disease transmission, and after some time a "herd immunity" within the human population; the indigenous peoples who were later invaded had not acquired such immunity and were heavily impacted by diseases brought by colonists/conquerors
On top of that, the alphabet was invented in the Mediterranean region whixh enabled transmission of knowledge, which enabled growth of knowledge, which imparted military abd commercial advantage
With these advantages, the rest of the world didn't have a chance. At least, not for the first 10,000 years. But oil became incredibly important a bit over a century ago, and the existing empires were absolutely smashed by WWI. We're at the beginning of a new chapter. A Chinese diplomat was asked what he thought of the French Revolution and he replied, "It's too early to tell". That's probably pretty true.
I wish Coleman would just release his interviews in full for CZcams. The clips are never enough.
This was an EXCELLENT podcast! I completely agree with you, Coleman, that mainstreaming Murray points on the genetic/racial basis of some IQ differences would be disastrous, yet I also agree with Murray that mainstreaming the "systemic racism is everywhere" explanation is ALSO disastrous. So, either we figure out a new way to explain and to make effective public policy on all of those issues such as education, housing, income, policing, and so on, or we are screwed, basically...
Most honest video I’ve ever seen!
The thing that always got me is how nobody seems the question the idea, that if you have a society of let's say 90% B-People and 10% A-People, then somehow that society must have a population of doctors made out of 10% A-People and 90% B-People and if not, then that discrepency "proves" that the "system" is racist.
This to me is not based on the real world and real human behaviour when it comes to why we go after speciffic professions and why not. There also ist a different problem arising from looking at discrepencies with such conclusions. One conclusion is that "This also proves that the system was created by B-People to only help B-People, which is why B-People are not doing anything to change this system", this conclusion is based on the idea of "over representation" and "under representation", with the first being taken as "proof" that "the system" is being held up like that on purpose. This conspiracy theory is very dangerous when one takes into account that some individuals from some minority groups are "over-represented" in speciffic jobs and positions. In the Documentary "Things We Won't Say About Race That Are True" with Trevor Phillips, Trevor Phillips points out that the Jewish population in GB is very small, yet Jewish people are on average better off than the average non-jewish Brit. Now if one would believe the "Discrepency Theory", then one would end up involved in Antisemitic Conspiracy Theories claiming that Jewish people are better off than anybody else, because they "control the System", etc. etc., which is of course nonsense.
czcams.com/video/Tb2iFikOwYU/video.html (www.imdb.com/title/tt4508300/ "Things We Won't Say About Race That Are True (2015)")
So for me the whole problem starts with this idea, that if a population is made of different types of people groups, such as A, B, C, D, where every group makes 25% of the population, then all professions must be practiced by 25% of people, coming out of every group, otherwise "the system" is racist. But this idea, completelly ignores the question, why people go after the job the go after or the profession. We know about anecdotes. I knew for example people, whos fathers were lawyers and it was the parents who decided for the child and not "the system", at least in some cases, but claiming that "the system" decideds is just deterministic constructivism and it simply is simplified to strong and it will always end up in Anti-Semitic and racist conspiracy theories, one only have to think about Migrants from India in the US, who are on average also doing better than the "average white man", which is not something bad, but ends up in a catastrophe, if one takes the marxist worldview.
Why do we assume everyone would want to be a doctor? There are better professions. It's more accurate to look at how much money people make than to single out those specific professions.
Highly recommend reading "Human Accomplishment" to anyone with the ability to think about things in an objective manner.
@Lieber Tiger the book is a fantastic way to really grasp the overall way society has developed over the last 2500 years, the specifics in terms of people and locations and why those people and locations. While it doesn't directly give you the "what" in terms of what you should do, it gives you enough to come to the decision yourself.
On top of that, it's just a beautiful analysis of history. I loved it so much I tracked down an purchased a physical copy. In a better world the book should be given in early-mid schooling to everyone.
I’m sure Mr. Murray conceived of this long before I did, but I independently arrived at the same conclusion. He is absolutely correct. “Racism” is all that’s left to blame if our society doesn’t come to grips with the truth of average IQ differences by race. We will never solve our societal problems and we will most likely destroy ourselves if we keep blaming unequal outcomes on racism.
And how will you solve it if every household starts to consider white people are simply intellectually superior? Explain in detail please how that would be a good thing and how you would solve things with it
@@vertigo2894 The difference is that one is at least honest about the nature of the problem. The current explanation for the disparities, that is allowed to take root without any explanation from black conservatives as to why there is this disparity, relies on blaming whites unequivocally for racism. This is done by allowing the notion that racism, which whites supposedly are solely creating, is responsible for all forms of inequality. So to suggest that revelations of IQ and race being connected is more harmful than we currently have is intellectual dishonesty among black conservatives, as the result of the current narrative creates more damage than any foreseeable consequences of simply recognising racial disparities in IQ or athleticism. The same consequences of IQ averages would also be felt regarding whites to East Asians, as East Asians have a higher IQ than whites by average. So the fact that the whites that promote IQ and its association to race, in the same way that they would with athleticism in association to race, show who is being the most impartial regarding this conversation. Simply because something looks less favourable to our self image in that area, doesn't give us the right to deny the need for the pursuit of truth, irrespective of if the revelation doesn't meet our social standards or contemporary beliefs. If we held the view that feelings mattered more than truth, we would put faith above reason and not question the nature of our existence through the sciences. People shouldn't be persecuted or put to the stake as they were in the past because certain individuals cannot handle criticism of their personal belief through critical evaluation in the same way that understanding racial differences shouldnt result in racial persecution of races.
@@azothothdestroyerofworlds1910" The difference is that one is at least honest about the nature of the problem. The current explanation for the disparities, that is allowed to take root without any explanation from black conservatives as to why there is this disparity, relies on blaming whites unequivocally for racism"
You are either ignorant or being dishonest. Black conservatives have taken issue with blaming disparities on racism from whites. If a black conservative who isn't supportive of making issue of this not good enough for you then what black conservative is?
" to suggest that revelations of IQ and race being connected is more harmful than we currently have is intellectual dishonesty among black conservatives, as the result of the current narrative creates more damage than any foreseeable consequences of simply recognising racial disparities in IQ or athleticism"
I wasn't aware clearly defining races and then subsequently attributing intelligence largely to these proven categories was scientifically settled. Last time I checked, IQ scores were rising for everyone but I digress.
Yes it is harmful, it absolutely is. Of course human beings would use this idea to hold themselves superior to others as a birth right. This has caused us so much grief in the past and there is no reason to assume it won't in the future. Like he said, "we don't live in a rational world". It already is being used to dehumanise and would only spread and intensify if we simply all concluded that intelligence is not raisable due to racial constraints. I mean are you kidding me? Lol
Asians don't tend to be the ones waging racist world wars. That aside, there isn't a significant number of whites in Asian countries, where as there is a significant amount of darker skin races in white majority countries.
"understanding racial differences shouldnt result in racial persecution of races"
People shouldn't do a lot of things they do.
And I love how feelings are dismissed whenever someone like you needs them to disappear. Even in context of facts concerning emotional reactions, you still want to dismiss it. Wether you like it or not, people will react based on feelings. Conservative or Stalin Communist. No political camp or group is free of emotional human beings. Just watch the reactions of conservatives when a non white foreigner injurers a white citizen. Doesnt matter what the statistics are about local injuries at the hands of fellow countrymen. If feelings are irrelevant in a conscious entity like ourselves, then we can justify pretty much anything. Without your feelings, you would have a hard time justifying many things. The idea that feelings and emotions are a detriment is absurd. It depends on what feelings and in what context. Feelings evolved in humans for the purpose of alerting us to everyday threats to our survival. We constantly scan our environment for dangers and opportunities, to satisfy our most basic needs. We get a constant body-mind report about the state of the world through our feelings. They give us a quick assessment about whether something is good for us or bad for us and they motivate us to take action accordingly' If you want simple reproduction, for the sake of reproduction then join a termite colony.
My argument with Mr. Murray, and the thing that makes me view him with suspicion, is his disingenuous notion (05:09) that it is, "partly Latinos; but it is mainly Blacks", that have decided that identity politics' time has come. It is White Leftists that created the "isms" that plague our society. Marxism, socialism, communism, feminism, etc. It is American academia, particularly the Northeastern and Ivy League Universities, none of which are Black institutions; that are responsible for corrupting the educational process and indoctrinating the youth. Corporations, big tech, the sports and entertainment industries, labor unions and government bureaucracies, are all dominated by White Leftists. The Latinos and Blacks that Murray speaks of, are the puppets of identity politics; not the puppet masters. Mr. Murray is smart enough to know this; so at a minimum, it's intellectually dishonest for him to place responsibility on the messengers, instead of those that pay them to deliver the messages.
I remember a few years back having to take a course part of my counselor degree, “cultural competence” class. I was excited to learn about different cultures when I first signed up for it.
Little did I know after reading the very first sentence in the first chapter, “ if your white European, you are white privileged”
Thorough out the course, we were taught to not treat groups of races differently with the end of the course, teaching us to treat certain groups of races differently 😵💫😉
I hope one day this course is completely revamped into an amazing course so we can learn true meanings of people’s culture they grew up with instead of how we should “treat” them as a group instead of an individual.
color blindness > prejudiced lenses.... Woke is highly prejudiced.
For the woke if you are less intelligent you are also an inferior human
@@Deepfake820 Actually being 'woke' means not sleeping through a undergraduate/postgraduate history class--because HS history is straight up propaganda. HS historian's can't handle the truth. It's not the woke wanting to cut benefits to the disadvantaged
Color blindness is an ideal only White People subscribe to and it’s why this country is dying.
@@southafricanizationofsociety20 wrong
Coleman, once again you have earned my respect and admiration. This is such a tough and uncomfortable conversation but I believe it's one that is extremly important. A civilization built on lies will never withstand the test of time. I agree with Mr.Murry on this and I also agree with him that we must fight tooth and nail to protect the idea of individualism.
Where’s the lie?
@@muskodine The lie is that unequal outcomes are proof of racism.
Here is some truth for you: if you are so desperate for something to feel superior about that you latch on to white supremacist pseudoscience, you aren't superior to anyone.
Did you know that the same dengenerates that say black people have low IQs say that women also have low IQs?
@@athenictragedy751 I haven't done the research on that one. However, I wouldn't be surprised if women did on average have lower IQs. I took very difficult classes in college and some of the smartest people in the class were men. As a woman, I struggled to find other women at my same computational level but it wasn't as hard to find men at my same level.
Many people don’t want their children to marry outside their own group. I don’t say it’s right just that it’s not unique. What is unique to the English speaking world is that we are willing to say it’s wrong. Italians, Indians, Pakistani, Arabs just take it as natural.
Nice discussion -- tough topic -- hit it head on -- nice.
“Among blacks, 76% of self-described conservatives, 71% of moderates, and 76% of liberals favor affirmative action programs for minorities.” (Gallup)
African Americans do not subscribe to individualism, they are very tribal and collectivist, but they’re happy if other groups, mainly White, are individualists. Their support for the discrimination of Whites and Asians via affirmative action hovers around 72% (Gallup, 2019) over the last 20 years.
“…support for affirmative action based on their demographic and political characteristics shows that race is by far the strongest predictor. Ideology is the next strongest, but its effect is only half as large as that found for race.” (Gallup)
Europeans still are very in-ground oriented. America by design had to assimilate and cohere together around multi-ethnic groups. While most were originally ethnically white, culturally they all had idiosyncrasies that didn't gel right away. Over time those differences have lessened as the idea of being an american has taken hold. White Americans don't have a center, because they are as a whole very culturally diverse. I think that white culture could become a focal point around which many will circle around if identity politics is left to reach its dystopian end.
Supporting affirmative action doesn't mean you're supporting discrimination against anyone.
@Maka Maka
Nick cannon found this out the hard way.
@@floritamendez3297
Yes it does it’s the very definition of discrimination because it means racial preference.
Don’t ever call yourself intelligent ever again.
“…support for affirmative action based on their demographic and political characteristics shows that race is by far the strongest predictor. Ideology is the next strongest, but its effect is only half as large as that found for race.” (Gallup)
As far as inter-racial marriage, I think it's a cultural more than a racial issue. Many cultures diverge widely in some of the most mundane everyday things.
Its cultural more than racial.
Its obvious that certain cultures, are much more compatible than others. Some cultures are very accommodating and differential, others are highly resistant to not only being inclusive but, the need to stand apart and be obstinance, continuing behavior that leads to no good.
Put on the objective goggles, and go to an inner city high school that has a diverse student body, see who's doing what and getting along with whom...very telling.
@@corsair6 You guys like to come up with more excuses and exceptions to distract from the racism of too many in this country. Black people raised in majority white nieighborhoods, white majority white DNA are s till rejected by a number of whites in this country. Did you forget that 1)there are nearly 200 organized white supremacist groups operating in this country today? 2)The insurrectionist on Jan 6 were carrying confederate flags and wearing racist tee shirts and shouting racial epithets at police? 4)The FBI reported that our greatest domestic terror threat is from white supremacist groups?
@@thadlincolnii7398 cope. Carry on being indoctrinated by CNN. Clearly you're not rational minded enough to even be watching this video if you think it was an insurrection.
Thad. The greatest danger from the right is talked about here in Europe too - however wha we have experienced is complex the reverse. Seems here and in the USA there is an intention to heighten right wing issues in order to downplay or equalise the situation
Yongo race and culture can and do overlap but are not the same.
Smart conversation!
Now I can't WAIT to see the whole thing. But I can't pay for Glenn, Bulwark AND you -- yet =)