Are Retro Gamers Elitists? - Retro Bird
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- čas přidán 7. 04. 2022
- Elitism exists in most hobbies and gaming is no different. I go over all the different ways that elitism can potentially show up within the retro gaming hobby.
Are Retro Gamers Elitists? - Retro Bird / Does Elitism Exist in Retro Gaming Hobby? / Do Retro Gamers Think They're Superior to Others? / Elitist Attitudes
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#retrobird - Hry
Games played: Castlevania Bloodlines (0:02), Magical Quest 3 (0:13), Astro Boy (0:23), Rocket Knight Adventures (0:45), Layer Section (3:10)
As always, appreciate these. :-) and thank for the content! I have CZcams premium, I hope that helps
Hey @Retro Bird, Sorry to bug you. The end of the video had me thinking & Is it elitist to be a CZcamsr /Reviewer & to get free stuff or possibly money for the purposes of reviewing something?
I don't feel comfortable sharing names but there are some reviewers I genuinely question the legitimacy of their reviews when they keep getting all this free stuff & their reviews either have very tiny flaws or sometimes no flaws ever talked about. I've seen it in modern video game CZcamsrs who talk about new games or hardware and I've seen it retro game channels specifically the modding scene.
@@ringfitmaster3079 I think there's a difference between being an elitist and lying in order to get free stuff.
Dude I wish your channel bigger , your sesne of humor is growing on me have you consider patron?
@@TenOfZero1 I think your right to. There's just something about some CZcamsrs who act like they know everything because they have insiders. It sometimes can just rub me in the wrong way.
19 Year old Retro Gamer here, and I'm proud to be on your lawn
There are elitists in any hobby.
Some people consider you a loser for playing video games. Others consider you a loser for not being skilled at hard video games.
Beauty comes in all shapes and sizes. And so do jerks.
A-holes also come in different shapes and sizes
@@TravisSurtr different colors too
It didn't come up in the video, but there's some emulation elitists that crop up in retro game discussions. Interested in the NES mini? "Why not get a raspberry pi?" Bought a new retro game? "Ha, I have 400 roms on my computer for free."
These types of people really annoy me. It's like they fail to understand that some of the enjoyment comes from actually collecting and owning the games. It feels a bit dismissive
To me these are some of the worst kind of elitest! Myself and others would like old collections or remasters of a game, and theres always gotta be THAT guy who says "just emulate it" 🙄
Elitism does go both ways though. I love my SNES classic but I’ve definitely been told “original hardware and crt tv is better”.
We should all just support eachother and be happy for eachother.
To be honest, I always see more of the opposite opinions, you know, like: "Emulation is sh*t" and things like that, but well, annoying people will be annoying anyways
for me its the graded games. It really gets to me for many reasons.
It’s the sealed game revolution for me, I get it from a financial perspective but as the community shifts into more collecting and less actually playing it gets my gander
I don't understand why that would ever bother someone. I am a massive silent hill fan, and wanted to buy sealed copies to get graded as a decoration in my gaming room. Why would that ever bother someone else? Or even if I look for graded games at a good price to collect. That's strange to me that it would rub people the wrong way.
@@jonb2756 It's because it's a scam
@@kricku that's like saying any collectable is a scam. People who like to collect dolphin figurines are being scammed? Of course not. They are buying what they like with the intent to display it.
@@jonb2756 But what exactly is a grading? Therein lies the trick
I once had someone try to talk down to me because I usually jump between playing many games at the same time instead of just focusing on one game at a time. Lol
I bounce around alot also finish about 75% of what I start.all about having fun
I would never talk down to you but I just don't get how people can do that. If one is kinda casual it makes sense but I couldn't imagine playing horizon forbidden west and Elden ring simultaneously haha
@@stannisthemannis5535 I can see switching games from different genres but personally not between rpgs.
same I end up playing something else every other 3 days
Right now I am working my way through Ocarina of Time on my 3DS, Kirby Forgotten Lands and Breath of the wild on Switch and jumping around through whatever strikes me at the moment.
I played through House of the Dead 2 on Wii earlier tonight then Mario Kart 8 online for an hour with my wife. After that we played a bit the Original arcade Donkey Kong before finishing the evening playing a couple levels of co-op Kirby Forgotten Lands.
By mixing things up I dont get burned out on anything. If I just played Zelda start to finish I'd be sick of seeing Link on my screen by the time i finished it. We all have our own ways that work best for us.
I'm too old now to get caught up in much drama anymore. As long as people aren't a jerk to me I'm good with folks doing their own thing. I do try to encourage people to give the old stuff an honest try though.
One trend I am seeing is that many new games are hitting the right chords for my retro groove so I'm good with modern gaming more now than a decade ago. My big thing lately has been original hardware as much as possible but I totally get that most folks have no desire or room for a 32 inch CRT just for their old game systems.
At the end of the day have fun, dont be a jerk and we can all get along.
I was playing Super Mario Bros before you were born, kid. Peach? We called her TOADSTOOL. And we had blow on our cartridges for hours to get them to work. There was an ART to it. You’ll never understand.
The older we get, the more stuff like this (and cranky king's quotes) becomes relevant. 😆
I'm not gaming elitist at all. It's just nice to hear people talk about game that they're currently playing or just enjoy or the memories they have to them. 🕹😁😊
Your stuff is so wholesome and I've noticed not-being-elitist is a subtle theme throughout your videos in a non-aggressive way
I feel like the retro gaming crowd is very positive and welcoming until the prices start going up due to new people getting into the hobby. Then it turns into an "I was doing this before it was cool and you're ruining it, so get off my lawn," kind of attitude.
I mean we kind of have to because of these new "gamers" can often be people jumping in just to make a buck off anyone looking for a good time, and gamers have been burned like that a few too many times.
I'm certainly of the old guard and I can pretty easily say why this happened. Before 2010-ish getting into retrogaming as a hobby was dirt cheap and nobody really care about the monetary value but the more people got into it the more it became about money. Cost isn't so much an issue for most older collectors, rather that it very much became about flexing and money. I see so many newer collectors simply buy shit up and never use it only for it to stand neatly on a cabinet somewhere and brag about the value of their games and the deals they've gotten. (not to mention some youtubers are are outright awful at that constantly mentioning how much of a deal they got in comparison to ebay and how much they have made from reselling of listicles of "game X is still cheap for console Y", and youtube arguably sparked the modern popularity of it all)
I got the feeling that a load of newer collectors aren't into videogame collecting because of the games, rather they view it as some sort of investment strategy that's bordering on a hobby. I especially notice that when dealing with buying something from someone's collection, the old guard is mostly "you'll get it for free or the price I bought it at a decade or 2 ago" while the new crowd is mostly "I'll give you a homey price, it's a bit below ebay current sales prices".
It's gotten so bad that I regularly get offers from newer collectors at weirdly high prices for pieces in my collection for simply mentioning I have a certain thing. Which brings me to my second point, they have no clue about pricing as most seem to believe their own collection is made of gold while things I actually list for sale get regular messages of "whats the lowest price you'd accept" or rant about how I should just give it to them.
Why would the price go up to a point it has never had before when the demand goes up to a place it is never been before. Since there is more demand, shouldn't the price be going down????
The price was HIGH for retro gamers because there was so few of us. The price should decrease as more people come into the market. Accepting this false narrative by these corporations that prices MUST BE RAISED because MORE people are gaming makes retro gamers HATE new gamers because new gamers are ignorant, young and do not understand economics and are willing to accept such ridiculous arguments without a lick of critical thought... so I guess I am elitist.
@@beezusHrist You clearly know nothing about economics yourself.
More demand on a limited supply means prices go up, not down. There aren't any new copies printed by Nintendo of Smash 64 for example, meaning they are limited to the ones that still exist.
Lets get theoretical, if there are a 100 items and a 100 people that want them demand is met and prices stay relatively low. But if there are a 100 items and there are a 1000 people interested prices go higher as people try to outbid others to get the item.
Also prices where LOW when there were so few of us exactly because demand was low.
Granted for new product aimed at the hobby this doesn't go as they aren't limited, but they also don't see price hikes rather they drop in prices.
@@relo999 the supply isn't limited(TODAY), they are making SOFTWARE, and if you think prices were low, look up prices of games in the 90s adjusted to reflect inflation. Wages in the US have been stagnant since the 70s.
The premise of your argument is flawed (The product is software) so let's NOT get theoretical OR econ 101ish. There is more SOFTWARE available to be supplied to meet the demand so price raises on video games in 2022 do not make sense. Video game makers are also making record profits so there goes another hole in your argument.
You did not think this through
The only place i can see im 'elistist' would be I only play on official hardware, even if its something like classics on ps3 or vc on wii, wii u and 3ds. Although i dont really care how other people play there games, its just how i like to play them. My one exception is piracy, especially people who pirate games before they are even released. I have and will continue to speak out against that
I don't actually think that's elitism, pal! It just seems like you're genuinely passionate about seeking the original experience! I find myself doing that too! I recently started collecting for the N64, and even though practically the entirety of its library has been emulated, I really like playing it on my CRT just because it's so simple to boot up and feels more authentic to me, if that makes sense!
If someone pirates vintage games that are rare or expensive due to age and shrinking supply, that's totally cool with me. Paper Mario on gamecube being one example, it was never released again.
Some collectors wanna live in a GameStop so bad.
I just want to say that your channel is my favorite retro gaming channel! Keep it up Retro Bird!
Thank you for that!
Highlight of this video was when he was showed the "highest value items" and it included the bag of bread clips. Subtle gold.
The biggest one I catch myself shaking my fist at the kids about is, original equipment. Nothing triggers me more than seeing someone play retro games on a stretched screen, and I hate myself for being such a buzzkill lol
Well as somebody who also uses CRTs with original Genesis hardware. I sometimes use 16:9 on modern displays. Since it sucks leaving all that screen real estate on a big TV and it honestly doesn't look THAT much worse. And oled displays in particular can get burn-in from not using the whole screen. Another point.. SNES natively displayed 8:7 and had to be stretched to fit all standard 4:3 displays. Not as severe as stretching to 16:9. But you get the point. ;)
My answer, as a Retro Gamer: No.
I was raised under the principle that video games are just a fun way to waste time and escape the stresses of reality for a brief moment, not as some obnoxious sport you can make money off of via dumb sponsorships and donations.
If anything, current-day hardcore gamers pretending to be Retro Gamers are the elitists…
I’m definitely susceptible to the retro vs. modern flavor. I have to force myself not to roll my eyes out of my skull when a friend tells me how good the new CoD or assassins creed game is. I gotta work on that…
Another form of elitism I’ve encountered is the “big collection” elitist. (Quick little story for ya) I was recently at my local retro game store buying a new GameCube game and I mentioned to the clerk that it was only the fourth GC game that I own and I overheard another customer sarcastically laugh (ya know that pffft! kinda laugh) I guess because of the meager size of my current GC collection. Where, I feel if it were reversed and someone only had a handful of games for a console that I collect for more fervently , I would ask what few games they had and maybe make some recommendations 🤷🏻♂️ I should try to be as kind towards modern gamers, I mean I do like a bunch of modern games, maybe just not the kinds that tend to be the most popular. Not that there’s anything wrong with liking call of duty… 😬… I guess…
I got a Steam notification for my friend launching Call of Duty right as I finished reading this, lol
Did you play elden ring? There are also some good retro style modern games. Metroid dread comes to mind
I like that you're aware of the more positive approach to take by showing interest and making a recommendation! As for modern games, I agree with Dominic about Elden Ring and Metroid Dread. I've had a blast with those two but they may not be for everybody.
I like Call of Duty a lot. That's my fav 1st person shooter. Also it's a great online shooter. I play it for mostly the single player game. 5 hours is enough for me on single player mode.
@@dominicvl1990 Not going to play those. Way too hard.
I actually met some of the heaviest sealed and graded collectors out there last year. These dudes are spending 6 figures on games each year......and they were some of the nicest dudes I ever spoke with 😁
Don't wanna be that guy but I'd argue that when you can spend that much money on collecting videogames, how could you not?!
Seems like life certainly treats them pretty well.
@@nolitnax6783 I've met equal jerks on all sides ...poor or rich to be fair hahha
Look no further than politicians. They get many millions in kickbacks and are some of the most vile scum of the earth.
The nicest ppl you spoke with spend a lot on video games.
LMFAO 🤣 THE toilet background that made me bust out laughing it's 5 in the morning n ppl are sleeping I couldn't hold it in ....
No pun intended
Haha! You've got the best youtube channel outro/intro music! Would really need an extended version of that. Fun and great video by the way. 😊👍
Thank you. There actually is an extended outro currently being worked on now :) Should be ready in the coming months.
The image of Elden Ring next to DK Country 2 is pretty accurate to my gaming taste. I'm in the middle of enjoying Elden Ring right now, but I do like to boot up the odd nintendo or sega game inbetween sessions. It's a healthy balance 👌
Putting out the vibe like Lloyd Christmas in Dumb n Dumber
3:29 I had an ice cream drumstick the other day and couldn't stop thinking of this part lol
One of things I suppose not mentioned for me is feeling elitist because for the last 20 years of my life I have collected video games, and played them for 30 years and most of the people I meet are younger and or haven't been interested in the hobby as long. Not that I have anything against people interested, I'm glad and we share the same hobby. But big crowds with shallow interests causes high prices and lame trends like common RPGs costing more than they were new, or idiot speculators buying graded games. When you've been around a while the trends and crowds bother you a bit, because it's not like it use to be. It's hard for me to shake that perspective.
Serious merch opportunity:
Embroidered Retro Bird logo hat with "Get On My Lawn!"
I'd buy one. Cheers
Love your content! Glad I came across it.
Glad you're here as well!
When you talk about modern gamers who don’t try retro games, I get annoyed about the opposite. I’ve encountered a ton of “retro gamers” that don’t know ANYTHING about modern games and just assume they’re bad because “muh childhood” “the good old days”
Yeah the good old days. The 80's & 90's. To that I say 2022 & on is a lot better. I can now play retro games & 1000's to choose from with a lot more options.
I suspect some elitism is born from the ridicule of others. If you don't feel legitimized in your interests, you're more likely to shell yourself off and take on a superior air of "they don't understand" in an effort to maintain your ego.
I truly enjoy seeing someone's collection in the background. It makes me think, "wow that's so cool. I wish I could play those with them. Good job. Awesome collection."
Everything you said was on point. This is an excellent video. Everything you said in this video is 100% truth. Ok so for me it would be retro vs modern gaming.
Always well thought out videos 👍
Yeah the retro vs modern thing for me, although I have been known to get snobby about retro arcade cabinets with LCD screens in them. It looks completely wrong but I guess there will never be any more CRTs so that's just how it is, although maybe if more people cared then more tubes would have been saved.
I was talking to a co worker and he said he owned ocarina of time as a rom on his pc. I chuckled and he said “ oh I forgot you are a cart elitist “ lol
i love your videos brother, your voice and comedy style mesh so well, keep up the good work
Thank you!
Thanks for another great video! Loving the content you keep making! Nice work!
Thank you!
The toilet bowl background was awesome!
The flavor I get most elite about is probably set-up, but even then I don't really care how people do it, they probably just aren't aware there is a better way to display their games. Also I still use composite on my CRT a lot so whatever, I can't get too snobby about it. I guess the 2nd thing I get somewhat elite about is collecting, as I mentioned in another comment "physical-only" bros are kind of annoyance.
I disagree about physical only. Digital/Streaming gives WAY too much control to publishers. I view people who support digital/streaming as contributing to the demise of gaming. It's not about elitism. It's about saving our hobby and refusing a totalitarian business model.
@@medmuscle They're getting your money either way. And before you say 2nd hand market/used copies there's always piracy to resort to if digital get too totalitarian in your words.
@@medmuscle I disagree with that. Digital streaming will make gaming even more relevant. People would rather pay $20 a month than to pay $80 for a brand new game. It's more convinient too just to buy digital. I however do not stream & still buy physical just because it's way cheaper for me...Do I like physical copies? Yes...Do I prefer it over digital??? No. The main reason for that I have to go to my shelf, look for a game put it in, then play. I play online now with my friends & everytime they want to play a different game whether it's on switch or PS4. It's such a pain in the ass to keep getting up & switching games. When I play my ever drive I just turn the system on & just scroll to whatever game I want to play. It's so much easier.
@@apexanomaly It's not about them getting money. I have no problem supporting a good business model. And I don't need to resort to piracy. I already have a large collection. If people didn't support these garbage business practices, we wouldn't be here in the first place
@@tonyp9313 Laziness is not a good quality. To give up power for a tiny bit of comfort is pathetic. And you are objectively wrong about disagreeing. Look at Nintendo closing the eShop, Sony making digital purchases out of date, and MS making it mandatory for you to check your games online. I want you to explain how any of this benefits the consumer in any way.
I used to be all about having a wall of games in my background because all the other CZcamsrs do it so I thought I should do it too. Now in my background I have a few video game posters and framed gaming perler creations I made myself. I feel like it just sends a better message. There are a lot of people that can’t afford specific games and I don’t want to make them feel bad and I don’t want to unintentionally accelerate peoples Fomo . There is this weird fine line between sharing your passion for gaming and trying to convince people to buy crap and those lines get blurred a lot in this hobby . I’m not judging anyone who does it , but personally for me it doesn’t work anymore and doesn’t feel right for me. And I’ve been trying to better curate my collection and have shifted the majority of my collection to drawers and cabinets which also better protects the games rather than them being on a shelf . I like my way but it’s certainly not the only way to do things , people have to do what works for them. There is a lot of great ways to organize and display games
I kinda get uptight about terminology. Like remakes vs remasters. These words are used somewhat interchangeably, and it drives me up a wall when game journalists use the wrong one. It also grates on me when someone tries to get super-technical about which game should be classified with which term, so I'm stuck right in between plebes and extreme elitists.
Anyone who confuses remakes and remasters shows their true colors. We know who they are. And they disgust us.
Ok let's put the last part of your post to the test. What is a JRPG? 😊
@@medmuscle An RPG developed in Japan. Even if it mimicks a WRPG, I still consider it a JRPG if a Japanese developer made it.
@@Level1Sword Technically speaking, you are correct, even if it isn't traditional and mimics a WRPG. "Japanese" and "western" prioritize the location of its origin.
For me it's the modern X retro. Awesome message about spreading positivity and having good conversations about the hobby!
Glad you agree!
I think I've been perhaps a little elitist at times. I've definitely caught myself being frustrated at CZcamsrs who present themselves as the authority on games that they clearly don't know all that well, amd judging them more than appreciating their effort or enjoying their enthusiasm. At the same time, I really appreciate folks who are enthusiastic without necessarily being knowledgeable, as long as it's earnest.
What I truly can't stand, though, are the people that just parrot the general consensus and trash games they've never tried or call a game the greatest of all time when they definitely haven't played much to have such a strong opinion. To call a game your favorite ever, sure! Best of all time? No. I wouldn't dare to call any game the best or worst ever, just my favorite or least favorite.
Also, stop crapping on the Jaguar, 3DO, CD-i, Virtual Boy, etc. unless you've sincerely played a good selection of the games and formed your own opinion.
I might be an elitist...
What I'm annoyed by lately is SNES Snobbery as I call it. Most people assume that SNES was always superior to Genesis in graphics/sound and there is no reason to play the Genesis versions of a game that are on SNES. I'd agree that overall SNES was a little more advanced but gameplay was usually smoother on Genesis with often better music IMO. Basically I hate fanboyism and how easily people are influenced. 😉
I didn't know Bird was crapping on those systems.
@@tonyp9313 I don't think he is. My comment was definitely not a shot at him.
@@bananonymouslastname5693 ah ok
@@tonyp9313 I can see how what I wrote kinda reads that way. I meant people in general, but in a video comment, it does look a little like I was complaining at the channel. My bad. Retro Bird is pretty great, because he's generally a proponent of just having fun playing games, which is a message I can get behind
I just like playing, collecting, and looking at my setup. We all have different things and that's cool with me. Be chill people and game on!
Great points, I really liked this video. I also find myself falling into the elitist trap when it comes to retro vs modern games. I think, for me, it comes down to the difficulty level and hand holding I find in modern games. Retro games asked a lot of the players which made them feel much more frustrating but ultimately more rewarding. My most memorable gaming moments were discovering hidden secrets or getting stuck and finally figuring out how to proceed either on my own or with friends. I remember that triumphant feeling which in the moment made all the frustration and struggle feel worth it. For me, the elitist trap comes in to play when I assume that by making things too easy in modern games, that triumphant, rushing feeling is robbed from the experience.
Trust me. Modern games are not that easy. There are a lot of hard ones that challenge you. It's mostly the 2D side scrollers, beat em ups Zelda & Metroid Dread games
Genre. I can’t help but feel like when you play fighting games and shoot ‘em ups that you’re building actual skill that translates to other games, where as someone crafting items in an open world is mostly just putting in time and grinding.
Don't forget side scrollers & beat em ups. When you play something like, I don't know......Wonder Boy in Monster land. You'll probably die a lot in this game. As you replay it 20 -50 times you'll progress, get further & learn something each time you play it.
Absolutely, I play more beat em ups than shmups tbh. And I for sure respect action platformers. The adventures of little Ralph is one of my favs
@@tonyp9313 Wonderboy In Monsterland is a top 10 best game of all time for me 👍👍
@@luckyrockmore2796 Yup. I don't know if you ever beat this game. Here's a tip I found out after 30 + years. Buy Ceramic boots & you'll beat this game easily.
Even just putting in time and grinding can be fun, and that's what matters anyway
Excellent video! Let's bring the positivity!
playing a vertical shmup horizontally was a great touch lol
Nice catch :)
The kind of elitism I find most annoying about retro games is picture quality elitism. I've seen people been shamed for using composite on CRTs waaay too often
Old school games are nostalgic for me. And you have to admit there is a certain charm to these games. It's interesting to see what the developers have done with the limited hardware there was back then. If people didn't appreciate these kind of things, then there wouldn't be compilations of old games published today. Criticizing someone for enjoying these games would kind of be like criticizing someone for enjoying an old black-and-white avant-garde film.
I'm elitist when it comes to graphics...and people's inability to distinguish between sharp textures and true, blood and sweat art-style. There are a few Mona-lisa's in the video game space...but so few actually perceive them.
I play both modern and retro games so I don't really feel like I have an elitism towards either side. I will say though that there is elitism that goes both ways. There are the folks who will only play the newest games no matter what. It drives me crazy. It's as if games have an expiration date or something. On the flip side, you also have the guys who won't play a game released after 2005. Example, I'm playing Ocarina of Time again for the first time in years and the new Kirby game also.
Sure there are. I can't tell you how many times I have seen or heard someone say " oh you have to use rgb or component cables" or "anything other than mister for emulation is garbage". Just play how you like to play.
Retro vs. modern hands down. Quick little story for ya. I'm talking with my friend and telling him I am getting into retro games and got a crt, the systems, and was collecting/playing these games. We later got into a conversation about super mario kart and how getting gold in special cup 150cc might be the most frustrating thing I've done in a game. He tells me he can't get his kids into playing it. They want to play new mario kart on the Switch. He then asked me if that's how I played it. The elite attitude came out and couldn't stop it. "I play it on the super nintendo!" I didn't mean for it to come out like that, and I apologized for coming off smug. But I'm just really into my hobby and take pride in playing games the way they were when they came out. Plus, I literally just said I'm playing games on a crt, lol..
I vote "Best Comment" right here.
I feel ya. I've been known to yell "Super Nintendo" at inopportune times myself.
@@JEFFALITY agreed. Couldn't help but to hear Retro's voice in my mind as I read this comment
Why are you appologizing? Did he get upset cuz you didn't play it on that snes app for switch?
We should make this a "thing" where we write comments like this.
Your collection of bread ties definitely gives me "I'm better than you" vibes.
I’ve got to watch out for the collecting side of things. In the past I’ve found myself talking a lot about my collection to anyone I detected had any sort of interest in retro games. Although id talk about my collection mostly out of excitement for the hobby and video games in general, it may come off as materialistic. Something I’m very much not (i suppose video games aside).
Very cool you have a collection.
Oof i know what you mean, but then again as soon as people come over i let them play whatever they want and enjoy themself.
To me it doesn't really matter what time period a game is from. Games are just like art or music, the really good ones are timeless. That being said, I think there is a pretty big divide between a gamer like me and someone who mainly plays online FPSs, battle arenas or MMOs. I don't consider myself "better" than anyone like that, but I don't think I would have much to talk about with them, concerning games anyway.
Most I know are, including friends. Every now and then I'm given a "HOW COULD YOU!?" when they hear I emulate, refuse to play emulated copies, and they don't know how to have fun with games. What they play has to be popular in the community, considered a classic or they look at it snobbishly dismissive.
0:20 My first handheld gaming console was a GBA with the same color
Hey video idea, what games or system do you think will most collectible in the future? I think switch but idk maybe there won’t be a big market for the stuff in 15-20 yeaes
Oh the Switch for sure. I'd argue it's already a system for collectors.
I've experienced a lot of elitism in this hobby. and it's usually about my chosen way of playing retro games, since I don't have original hardware, and only recently got a CRT. I got insults for using custom borders and CRT filters in retroarch, I got insulted for buying the mini plug 'n play consoles like the NES classic, I was told to just get a raspberry pi, and when I did that, I got insulted because I struggled to get it set up and when I finally did, I kept experiencing performance issues on the emulators and the pie itself kept shutting down, the community that was meant to help me just talked down to me. Now i'm using my softmodded wii on a CRT but I don't want to even engage with anyone about this because of what I've been through.
I would like to get real hardware and some everdrives but that's just not in the cards for me at the moment.
As for the question of the video, i'm definitely susceptible to the retro vs modern elitism, but I try not to be, I do play modern games but they're usually tied to franchises with retro roots, or they have retro game design philosophies. But I do feel extra defensive when people pick on older games while enjoying the latest cutscene heavy tutorial-fest that is devoid of colors.
Sorry to hear that! Unfortunately there are bad apples in every hobby.
How do you like the softmodded Wii? I've thinking about doing that to mine as well.
So you got insulted by people online? That's terrible. They shouldn't be doing that to you.
@@TeinMustang I love the softmodded Wii, it can't run everything smoothly, no N64 or PS1 for instance, but you can certainly run the 8-bit and 16-bit consoles and handhelds perfectly, plus, with Nintendon't and USB-Loader GX I was able to dump all my Wii and Gamecube games onto a USB drive so I can play them without ever having to manually change discs again. It's great, but if your discs are damaged, you might get a bad dump, so be warned about that.
Recovering platformer elitist here. There were a few times I got my wife to play games I grew up with like the original Spyro and Jak games. Those games got me used to camera controls where "left means right and vice versa" in 3D platformers and has been the default for me for 20 years. At first I was like "play it right!" Or whatever but then I was like "nah, I want her to love these games like I do." So on the PS1 version of Spyro on PSP, I changed the controls so that L was R2 and R was L2. (The official PSP PS1 emulator allows you to customize your controls). I changed the camera directions on the PS3 version of Jak. And I also learned to be more patient with her if she doesn't get a mechanic right away or spot that "clearly obvious" secret.
I'd say if I had to choose stuff I'm more susceptible to being an elitist about, it'd be modern vs. retro. Unlike some other people in this camp, I still LOVE indie and Nintendo titles, so I'm more of a indie/Nintendo/retro vs. everything else snob. Wow, my name for my kinda snobbery is so specific and convoluted haha.
My second choice would be that I can be vocal about how I much prefer to play multiplayer with people in the same room as me, and hating the lag and disconnect I feel when playing online multiplayer. So yeah, I can be guilty of that too. Great video as always!
I adore indie games. It's so great to have an oasis from the modern AAA greed, agendas, and their overall "safeness" and lack of creativity that they had even 10-15 years ago.
I agree with not loving Nintendo in the 10s-20s as much as the 80s-2000s. They still have a lot of great things they've done, but for some reason, they feel more like they're more after money than they are about pushing the video game industry forward like they used to.
I don't know if it's the delicate culture of political correctness that's oppressed these large corporations from being as creative these days, and made them more sterile and safe, if it's the overall budget needed to make a video game getting bigger and bigger that makes them afraid to be as creative and risk taking, or if it's a bit of both of those things.
Either way, despite my outlook on the current state of the industry, I still feel that now is possibly the best time yet to be a gamer. We have the privilege of going back to whatever retro generation we consider the "golden era" and playing that stuff, or playing new games with a retro design philosophy with the wonderful indie titles that have been coming out lately.
It'll be interesting to see what the future holds for the industry. Hopefully, creativity and risk taking will somehow become king again. I also hope the trend of AAA greed will somehow be done away with too. Maybe indie games will eat so much into the AAA's market share that they'll be forced to change? I have high hopes for the future. I'm really hoping that there's a major shake up in the current state of things that creates what'll be looked back in retrospective as a Renaissance time period. Not just in video games, but in all forms of arts and entertainment that have become stagnant. I so desperately want the industries to return to their former glory. Sorry for the novel haha. These are just my thoughts!
I mean, I don't know. I think I'd watch a full "Game Dookie" video.
Retrobird putting out the vibe lol😂
For me, I find it easy to accidentally come off as an elitist when talking about equipment set up. I'm one of those RGB heads that has to have every HD Retrovision cable that exists, not to mention other products like the Retrotink 5x, GCHD, and back breaking Sony Trinitrons (I enjoy CRT's and modern solutions for different reasons). I think when people ask for solutions to hook up their consoles to modern displays, it's super easy to say "Get a Trinitron" or "That $20 Amazon HDMI upscaler is crap, go buy a $300 Retrotink 5x and another $200 on quality component/scart cables". Now, I would never say that with that kind of negative attitude, but I do find it easy to think that's the only suggestion I can make when in reality that could make it intimidating to someone new to the hobby just trying to enjoy their new retro games. Also, I'm definitely a original hardware only type of gamer, I find it easy to want to suggest the actual console paired with an everdrive when someone mentions emulation. As for elitism I have encountered, it seems to me the fantasy based RPG/JRPG crowd are pretty elitist. Alot of them in my experience seem to not enjoy any other type of game, and if it casually comes up that you aren't a fan of that genre, it's like they don't consider you a "real" gamer. Excellent video, was a really fun topic to think about!
One way to do it might be to encourage people to move up only if they aren't satisfied with their current setup. You can always let them know that, for a price, old games can look great on modern televisions. But if they are happy with their current setup, it certainly isn't hurting anyone. Not everybody can spend big bucks on video games, especially nowadays with the prices of EVERYTHING skyrocketing.
I won't currently play any PS2 games on anything other than a 60GB PS3 (all PS3s can play PS1 games though, so the model doesn't matter there). I have repaired my 60GB three times over the years (once was a power switch ribbon replacement, then my blu-ray drive crapped out twice), and am about to fix it a fourth time (running hot). If it cannot be repaired for some reason, I will buy another one. I MUST own a 60GB PS3. So I can relate to some degree.
I recently had to replace my older HDTV (it had every video input connector imaginable) with a more modern 4K TV with HDMI only. So I am just now starting to get into this type of stuff. I'm starting with addressing my Dreamcast.
0:59 did you turn your TV on its side for Layer Section? Do you prefer horizontal shooters?
I played it in horizontal mode so I could get the full resolution. Sometimes I do use a flipped TV to play games in their proper vertical mode with full resolution though. I like vertical and horizontal shoot 'em ups about the same.
For me my elitist tendencies are 100% system setup. I want to run on mostly original hardware, plus get RGB out of my consoles hooked up to a PVM.
Thanks Retro Bird for your videos. You've helped me to relax about having the "perfect" setup and focus my energy on playing games (which I wasn't doing much of, ironically).
I see you've got some nice games. But that bag clip collection... So jealous.
Equipment setup for me. I have RGB Scart set up for my snes/genny/AES, and I have HDMI and standard definition set ups for N64, gamecube, PS1, PS2, saturn and dreamcast, depending on what TV I want to play them on.
I love playing older games recently got into collecting a little bit, and I collect both modern and retro games. My friends tease me about collecting Wii games, but that's the console I grew up on and I love it! But I also collect switch and GameCube and a small amount of Sega Genesis games, mainly sonic. But I feel like if you want to collect something do it and don't let anyone hold you back 😃
Ultimately just do what you enjoy.
Its rare that I actually enjoy modern games, so I'm guilty of retro vs modern. That being said, I don't think that retro games are better just because they're retro. I feel like many of the games from the past had a lot more heart because developers had to get creative with the system limitations of the day. I don't dislike modern games because they are new, I dislike most of them because of all the practices that are now the norm. Day one patches, micro transactions, onlime multiplayer only with no couch co-op options, forced tutorials, required updates and installation, incomplete games being released and being sold cut content as DLC. I could go on.
Now, that ain't to say that I don't enjoy newer games, I been having a blast on the PS5 and the Switch. I just enjoy the older games more. I like putting what I want to play on and getting right to it without have to sit through an instalation, required update, or a forced tutorial on how to run and jump.
The main issues with new games is that they are way too long. They feel like a chore. Once I beat new games I never play them again.
My beef with people who say that they only like or play newer games comes from the fact that those same people also think Destroy All Humans, Resident Evil and Kingdom Hearts are more recent series because they don't even Google anything. So they are playing older games without even realizing it. I knew a kid in middle school who refused to believe there was older Metroid games than Prime. For whatever reason, he was dying on the hill of "Metroid just came out." Mainly because he said he didn't like old games and said he only played the "new good stuff"
It's an interesting thought that after Nintendo discontinued the NES classic, people continue buying the Chinese knock-off's. I think people would prefer buying the official one from Nintendo instead.
Can't buy something that doesn't exist.
Graded games and the resellers who are only in it as a business and not because they love the hobby and want to share it with others are what get me the most. I truly believe it ruins the hobby and punishes and takes advantage of people who just want to experience the original hardware. From consoles to games to even the crts now. There is a sense of elitism in that. “Oh, you want to play on original hardware and technology of the time, that’s going to cost you a ridiculous premium. How bad do you want it?” It also sets a terrible cycle and bubble effect. All the prices are so arbitrary and everyone wants to charge a little bit more than what they paid for it so the price just keeps going up and up until people finally just decide they are fed up with it and stop buying. Hit resellers where it hurts, don’t pay stupid prices.
As far as actually playing the games, it’s having the appropriate controller for the game you are playing. Even if I’m emulating a game I like playing with a controller that matches the system the game was designed for. I just get really bugged when playing an NES game form example with an SNES controller. I don’t like having all those extra face buttons.
I am most susceptible to 'emulation elitism' In this sense, my elitism is that I am ultra particular in how I want my games to run. And my goal with any game is reproduce an era-accurate performance and experience. I choose emulation because it is the only the way to dial these settings in just right for every game. And I gotta have my CRT filters. Those stock CRT filters where they just slap scanlines over your graphics are just trash. CRT scanlines were never THAT noticeable.
I literally left one of my game collector groups today simply because I saw a post of graded games with the caption "These minty fresh graded games came back from WATA today and will be posted for sale shortly" ...sorry but people have ruined the collecting hobby for me personally. If that's what you're into that is fine, but for me I miss the days of talking with collectors about games you're looking for or walking into a store and finding people with common interests and coming across some new games to play. Now, game collecting is strictly driven by rarity and profit. Maybe I am being too negative, but when I see groups where every post is a "look at my games " pissing contest and everyone wants to find only boxed and 90+ rating retro games at low end prices, it destroys the fun of gaming and discovery and turns it into a business...long rant but this is why I got out of collecting all together...people honestly ruined it for me
I don't give a rip what others say. I play the games I like, on whatever device lets me play them (Thanks RetroPie for allowing me to play the games I had as a kid but no longer have due to selling them when I was first married and poor!). I'm currently collecting for the Switch because I like knowing that if I have the physical I can play many years from now. Plus, they look cool on my shelf!
I feel like the people who have a very modern quick and easy emulation setup and playing that way are doing the much smarter thing, but for me I enjoy the 'true' feeling of playing on real hardware, and I try to go as far as I can with the best cables for picture, retro TV for light gun games etc.. It's a massive investment of your time and money. But for me gaming is the life I have chosen and it has never not felt worth it for me since these classic games work so well still.. My bigest worry is honestly disc rot or similar things of hardware breaking through time. Luckily I haven't experienced much of that yet, I have replaced several PS2 consoles during the years, and I have had 1 disc I suspect is dead due to disc rot.. thankfully the game came in that shape so I don't have to wonder if my other games are in a bad place.. lol
I probably shouldn't be saying this, but outside the original systems and classics, emulation is definitely one of the best ways to play old games.
It's like people who say they're a "gamer" and that they "love video games," but only play miltiplayer shooters. You can't say you "love video games," if you only stick to one genre of game. I think classic gaming is like that as well. You need to expose yourself to a bit of everything, the past and the present. That's how you become a "gamer"
I think we all have a smidgen of a Eliteness .. whether intentional or unintentional when you love something as much as you do, it's hard not to
Cool vid. Hmmm, it's probably the collecting. I'm not a completionist and only buy games (retro and modern) that I want to play but the condition has to be really good. I'm a big Sega fan so I want all of my Genesis games to be CIB or Saturn cases to be undamaged. I've come around a little bit on the CIB Genesis games so I at least need the case but that was tough. However, I realize it is a good thing that people are just playing retro stuff.
I collect stuff and I'm also into emulation and playing re-releases of these older games
I like exposing my friends to these games and a lot of them end up becoming fans but I've never waved my most expensive items in people's faces like MMM LOOK WHAT I HAVE
with the Emulation thing, I hate the collectors that say if you beat an emulated version of a game it doesn't count or whatever unless its on original hardware
Fuck that noise
0:17 made me laugh hard thumbs up for sense of humour :)
I'm really into video games, and have been all my life. I think I have or am elitist about video games from almost all of the perspectives you mentioned.
While I'm not that "I don't want to know you" level... if someone challenges what or why I like something, I tend to "bring it" and care too much.
I collect video games... but I collect only complete in box games (but not sealed games)
I like retro games... but I don't exclusively play them, I just thing anything made in the "patch" age just doesn't have the same care put in, like grandmas mashed potatoes.
While I prefer original hardware... for me, its more about "best experience", so anything with the least amount of lag, and preferably on a CRT (preferably a PVM/BVM).
At the end of the day, I'm happy when people like and appreciate the same things I do, but how they do it, or prefer to do it is fine with me... I feel like we are on the same team.
Well, I think it's perfectly fine to have a discussion with people about what you prefer so long as you're not putting them down. Not sure how your conversations go but figured I'd mention that :)
@@RetroBirdGaming I mean, I don't get nasty with people, but I more go out of my way to convince people that this experience is worth it if it's in their budget... or something is worth supporting something especially if you want them to make more of the thing you love... It's hard not to meet people with the same enthusiasm they come at you with, especially if you disagree with them... I mean, at the end of the day it REALLY doesn't matter, and it's all preference.
No idea about elitism but I monetarily can't justify getting older games anymore. I'm 24 and feel like I'm already priced out, the wave of cheap old games has come and gone. Now everything has a value that is justified by ebay purchases and other auction sites that makes it to where you can't even strike a deal with most people anymore.
Also, I guess my small formed elitism might be set ups? I play a lot of modern games because I like the online social aspect of playing with friends. Genres don't matter at all to me, but I will say *how you play the game might be more accurate then genres (ie, speed running, professional play) some people really feel that everyone should play the game as optimal as possible or they are wasting their time. So I guess I do like og hardware even if it is something like gc loader or xstation.
Fair point
I've heard some people get elite about how they are "strictly a physical media guy," like wow how much room do you have in your house? It seems like a self-imposed inconveniences at this point to limit yourself to just physical media. Don't get me wrong, physical is often preferable but I think most frugal and pragmatic gamers are open to both physical and digital. For PC games physical-only isn't even a thing, unless you're strictly into big box retro PC gaming.
I like digital a lot better. Only problem they cost a lot more. So I stick with physical copies for the PS4 games.
Or you know, not all of us have thousands of games in our house, I mean we do sell/trade/gift them. I'll get older digital games that haven't had physical copies in years, or interesting looking indie games from up-and- comers who can't afford it/aren't backed by big established companies. But physical is definitely the way to go.
@@bezoticallyyours83 Yeah I agree that physical preferable. I just don’t think it’s practical if there are certain things you want to play, and if you prefer the PC platform.
I kind of get heated at the CRT vs what other method. Like I don't get why some people are so adamant CRT is the only option. I don't have the space and I don't mind an upscaler like retrotink or an analogue product adding in scanlines, if I want them. So I tend to get rather "elitist" in my attitude towards others to just not care how someone is ENJOYing a game.
It wasn't always this way though. Quick little story for ya. I remember traveling in Japan and was kind of disgusted by the people who came here just for anime. My friend commented, "Dude, they are having fun. And you hate them for having fun." That really knocked me back. 20 years ago, but I still remember that when I start to scoff at something. Their enjoyment, doesn't diminish my experience at all.
I hear you. I kinda became a CRT elitist for awhile without really realizing it. But then I realized you can pretty good quality from some scalers and modern displays with reasonably low lag. Even though it's not 'authentic' it can look good in it's own way. Kind of funny that I was into Component and S-video connections but now I'm discovering that RF can look really good on a CRT if you can minimize the interference.
I really like CRTs, but it's always made sense to me that not everybody would have them and there are a lot of other great options these days.
I don't like the lag with the systems you mentioned even a little bit. I can't play punch out on a crt because of the lag & it makes the game unplayable.
@@tonyp9313 yeah but my point is, play with what you like. I don't care for people pushing only one way to enjoy something. Like why do they care how I enjoy it? If you have a CRT, awesome. If you don't use CRT and enjoy your games, awesome.
@@KnowNothingNerd Since I don't know you, I don't care what you play on. With my friends I care what they play on because I want them to have the best experience as possible. There are times where my friends played these games on a HD tv, & said to me, the games control like trash, I don't like them. I told them the non hd systems you have to play them on a CRT. Once they did that, their minds totally changed from not liking to loving the games.
3:05 Space Ace on SNES is great as it's a one of a kind game. No other SNES achieve that type of gameplay. Could have been a Masterpiece !!
Hey, Game Dookie is my favorite youtuber! 😂
While I grew up with retro gaming, I understand people not wanting to play older games (unless if they want a challenge). I change with the times.
I am guilty of the certain genre thing to be honest cause I remember that I got mocked once when I lost to them in a modern fighting game but the vice versa happened when I beat them in a retro fighting game and I mocked at them.
For me it's the sealed games an mint cib..my motto is buy cheap and incomplete playing is what's important an you'll find you will probably have a pretty sweet set up in the end..keep flying bird
Thanks Matt :)
People who demand tank controls to be the only method of controls in retro-styled indie horror are real elitist
Modern vs retro for me. It generally comes up the most when new games claim to be faithful to their source material (Breath of the Wild, Donkey Kong Country Returns for example) but for me, these new games are either much too different or lack the tone of the past games that I get kinda prickly around them.
To be fair to myself, I actually find gamers criticize me more for not liking these new games. But it’s not like I can do a 180 with my personal taste
I'm a self proclaimed purest. I like having legit games, whether physical or digital. I don't want to hack my console because it would personally bring down the value for me. So in that regard, I'm susceptible to the collector elitist mindset.
I'm proud that I managed to hunt down rare legit digital games, most specifically Four Swords Anniversary Edition and the Ambassador games and put them on my 3DS. Would it have been way easier to just use homebrew? Absolutely. Would it have been half as fun? Nope! I mean, I love playing the games but the hunting for deals and finally finding an Ambassador 3DS that wasn't linked to a NNID is going down as a core memory.
Another flavor of elitists I feel you missed are the Pirates. I have literally nothing against people who wanna sail the seven seas, but their attitudes are soooo annoying. On every other post in my sub reddit if someone posts about finding a good deal on a physical game and stocking up on digital games, in comes the pirates ready to call someone stupid for not just hacking the console. For paying too much for a game they can get for free. Like everyone knows about CFW, let people play for they want.
Equipment setup is definitely what I get most passionate about. It’s easy to get sucked down the rabbit hole of original hardware, RGB, PVMs, etc. Its always good to remember that all of that would be meaningless without the games themselves
I'd add save states and the potential for better performance/graphics as two more reasons emulation can be preferable to original hardware. On the flip side there is that authenticity to OG hardware that certainly has it's allure, but to your point that fades. Also certain consoles aren't in what I'd consider an acceptably playable state when it comes to emulation (I'm looking at you Sega Saturn).
You can use save states on most Everdrive cartridges, which can be used on original hardware.
I like both retro and modern games. I usually say that today's games are tomorrow's retro games. Where I feel susceptible to elitism comes from certain trends in modern games, especially monetization. Micro-transactions, loot boxes, DRM always online requirements for single-player games, broken buggy releases needing many many patches to fix, and the list goes on. I look at all this and think that we had it better in the old days. 20 years from now, I wonder what nostalgia for our modern games is going to look like.
I still play some old games, but I mostly play the latest games. It's very rare for me to try an old game that's new to me. I've played older games... when I was younger. It only makes sense to try something new.