Jazz Drums Microphone Placements 02: Stereo Overhead Setups
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2024
- Watch Part 1: • Jazz Drums Microphone ...
Bill Frisell Trio: • Bill Frisell Trio, Rec...
This is part two of a series exploring different microphone setups and jazz drum set sounds. In today's episode, we'll look at different stereo overhead setups and hear some back-to-back comparisons.
Interested in studying privately with me? Email me michaeldangelostudio [at] gmail [dot] com
Gear used:
Drums: Pearl Reference Pure in Piano Black
12x8 Tom
14x14 Floor Tom
18x14 Bass Drum
14x5 Music City Custom Solid Walnut Snare Drum
Cymbals: Paiste Masters Dark
22" Crash Ride
20" Crash Ride
20" Flat Ride
15" Hi-hats
Sticks: ProMark Finesse Maple 5A
Heads: Evans UV1 Coated
Interface: Focusrite Clarett 8pre
Microphones:
Earthworks SR25 (Overhead)
Shure Beta 52A (Bass Drum)
00:00 Intro
00:58 Coincident Pairs and Phase
02:47 XY Setup
03:50 XY Setup Playing
04:39 ORTF Setup
06:06 ORTF Setup Playing
06:55 Spaced Pair Setup
08:21 Spaced Pair Setup Playing
09:10 Glyn Johns Setup
10:17 Glyn Johns Setup Playing
11:06 Engelhart Setup
13:22 Engelhart Setup Playing
14:18 Back-to-back Comparisons
15:32 Outro - Hudba
Thank you for the great tips. Engelhart approach sounds lovely I think. So naturel.
waw ..... Engelhart did it for me to ..... great thanks
3 sounds huge! thanks for this videos, great playing! :)
This is gold. You are a killer teacher. Please keep going!
Engelhart did it for me. Thanks!
back-to-back comparison. clear demonstration. thank you for respecting your viewer's time.
I really liked the open soundstage of the no. 2 ORTF setup, followed by the no. 03 Spaced and more natural sounding 05 Engelhart setups.
Hey there, Mike! Great cid- glad I stumbled across your channel
-Thomas Eby
Fantastic!
Check out the Recorderman technique for an awesome hybrid of Glyn Johns and the Engelhart. You’ll get the snare of the former and very similar drummer’s perspective to the latter. There’s an in depth video from a few years ago featuring Mixerman who invented the technique elsewhere on CZcams.
I've been loving this mic set up a lot lately!
like the engelhart most than ortf......thanks a lot great video!!!!
My favorite was the spaced pair, 2nd was the XY which was a little narrow. The spaced pair sounded nice and wide but also didn't mess up the snare sound like the ORTF and the Glynn Johns did.
No. 3 Thank you
or maybe 05, but with a snare mic (?)
04 Glyn Johns seems phasey...
thanks! my favorite is Engelhart. Usually I use AB spaced. Also recently I saw pictures of Coltrane quartet Lost Album and Rudy used just two mikes. One between cymbals and second next to Hi Hat.Interesting
Hi Michael. Very much enjoyed this video. Thank you. I use a Clarett 8 Pre too, and Paiste. Wondering on whether I should also think about Earthworks mics. I currently use AKG C214.
I left the same comment in your mono overhead video because I had not yet found this one. But using an XY field recorder (e.g. Tascam or Zoom), I put it over my right shoulder, and it hears what I hear ( Englehart) but I do not add an additional bass drum mic. My bass drum had no damping or porting. This is the poor man's studio on a stick.
@Michael D'Angelo
Nice demo, Michael. Can't go wrong with the EW SR25 mics. :)
However, just a note that the ORTF, Glyn Johns, and "Engelhart" setups typically use Cardioid polar pattern mics (and usually so do the "spaced pair" and "coincident X/Y" as well).
So your (and our) results will vary from most other demos using these techniques, mostly in terms of stereo width or L/R separation and the spacing between each element in the kit.
For example, the image that you posted of the great Bill Frisell Trio looks like they are using the excellent Neumann KM84/KM184 Cardioid SDC mics as the "overheads" for the drum kit. This "over the shoulder" technique also works extremely well as a mono 1 mic drum kit solution when placed over the drummer's right shoulder and aimed at the snare drum.
And the diagram that you displayed for the ORTF technique designated Cardioid polar pattern SDC mics. ;)
No matter...As demonstrated, these will all work extremely well in a mix and sound fantastic with the omni SDC mics. :)
Great tuning and playing as well, of course!
Cheers
P.S. If you will allow Links in your comments, I have posted a separate link to a web site that illustrates a visualization of the stereo imaging width and separation you can expect when using various microphone techniques as well as when some of the individual parameters in those techniques are adjusted. Or, just search for "Sengpiel Audio Visualization ORTF".
Great points here.
I should clarify that the Earthworks SR25’s do in fact have a cardioid polar pattern which is typically different than most Earthworks microphones that use an omnidirectional pattern.
Thanks for watching!
@@michaeldangelomusic
DOH! Of course, you are correct. 😊 I'm too used to implementing the Omni QTC30 measurement and other EW omni mics. Carry on!
What's the spacing on the Englehart setup? Equidistant from snare? From kick?
I like the separation of the spaced pair and also the added warmth of the Engelhardt. Glyn Johns just didn't work for me for Jazz as the sound seemed compressed, not in the sense of a compressor, but the tone seemed a bit boxy. Both coincident pairs were just okay. They captured everything but they just don't sound as lively. I did a couple recordings at a studio that had the Earthworks overheads. Geez, cymbals really had a lot of sparkle and character.
This is great. I always ask engineers about how they handle phase in a jazz setting.
So you use the bass drum as opposed to the snare for measuring OHs?
Thanks Mike!
I do use the bass drum as my measurement because that is where the other microphone is. Some of these examples I had to flip the phase on the bass drum to play nicely with the overheads.
Using the cable method, it does in fact get the bass drum *and* snare drum phase coherent with the overheads. Here's a really interesting article about phase relationship and overhead mics, and there is a section where the bass drum is mentioned as the "central" part of the kit. Worth a read!
www.admiralbumblebee.com/music/2018/04/23/Youre-micing-drums-wrong.html
@@michaeldangelomusic Thanks for sharing!
Hey! I'm Mario D'Angela, another MD initial drummer haha :)
Welcome to the club! 👊🏻
I'm trying to figure out, if a recording of 2 overhead mics are panned center are they still stereo or is it only stereo if you pan them after recording?
Nice video! One question, where do u point the overheads on Engelhart setup?
Place them above your shoulders pointing toward the middle of the drum kit on each side, for example in between the ride cymbal and floor tom
Thx!
ORTF, I'm not sold. With the mics that close to the kit, every sound is hitting the mics off axis (not a huge deal with earthworks but still a deal), but really the transients got no love because the only sound hitting the capsules directly are the reflected sounds. For kicks some time, try rotating your mics 45-ish degrees so one points at the kick and the other at the snare, ish. It creates a vibe, esp. with XY. The thing that always warms my heart with XY, and I hear it here in spades, are the super tight, fat, punchy transients, on everything. If your player is ham handed it can be too much HF detail, but with a deft touch like yours, you get so many options for placement and vibe in the mix. Engelhart... it sounds so washed out to me, I wonder if that's more down to your room, I feel like 12-18" closer to the kit would maybe help the clarity in your space. Thanks for taking the time!
Steve Albini has used two over-the-shoulder ribbons as overheads for a while now, it’s not uncommon in the world of rock and roll to record drums that way.
Engelhart!!!
Engelhart