USED ELECTRIC CAR CHALLENGE!! | What Car?
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- čas přidán 16. 11. 2023
- #WhatCar #MG4 #EVRoadTrip #EVRangeTest
Is the new MG4 really a better electric car than a five-year-old Renault Zoe and a 10-year-old BMW i3? We go on a road trip to find out.
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I can't believe the i3 is already 10+ years old. Besides the range, I think it still looks fresh today and was way ahead of its time (I'm sure the carbon fiber structure helps too)
Carbon fiber don't crack
Still my favorite BMW ever.
I worry about how carbon fiber will age
The i3 and i8 were lovely designs, BMWs designers did a cracking job with those two.
@@80y3r9I have some minor bubbling on my roof
I remember when tourist towns worked out that not having a cash point meant no one would visit. How long will it take towns in the UK to work out that EV charging infrastructure is a vital part of economic viability?
My regular seaside stop is Swanage, where there are PodPoint chargers in the public car parks,. I estimate that I have spent over £3000 in the town that I would have spent elsewhere if I could not have charged my car there.
The South West now has one of the highest per capita number of chargers in the UK. On a recent trip there I even found one to top up my car at Lands End.
Over night stays could have slow charging
And chargers that actually work.
A small town in Germany I used to regularly visit installed parking meters to raise revenue. People figured "if I have to pay I may as well go into the city 4 miles away and get cheaper prices in exchange for it" so they made a little money off parking and lost a ton of taxes as businesses started failing. So they implemented "free" parking (again) and the customers came back.
So in conclusion, more than a decade after the beginning of the democratization of electric cars, the charging network is still one of the main issue.
A 2019 and newer BMW i3 has more than double the battery capacity, and is available with a range extender, providing 160+ mile range. Still not brilliant, but far in excess of the one tested here. Plus, of course, it handles like a proper BMW, particularly the S trim.
It’s a different class completely. No comparison
Good video, although I think you could have mentioned the different battery capacities that the various year models of the BMW i3 and Zoe come in if you really wanted to help potential 2nd hand EV buyers
They did when they presented the cars they drive. And check 3:46 on the video
@@voldar70 Um no they didn't. They just said the battery capacity of the current car they were driving not the different battery options you could get with each respective car.
Very interesting test gents, it still highlights that the charging infrastructure is still way behind the cars if you need to do any kind of longer journey. But also that a second BEV would also be a useful choice if your journeys are 90% of the time local or under 100 miles a day.
They seemed to "forget" the excellent rapid chargers at Pease Pottage services, which was on their route. There are parts of the motorway network which desperately need better charging provision, particularly the M1. But in London and the south east you can't really go wrong
People considering a used EV purchase should not waste their time with generalist channels. Bjorn Nyland and Fully Charged are much better sources for information, both on new models and used. The biggest takeaway is that an EV, ANY EV, requires some adaptation. How much depends on make, model, age (both of the car and the driver), local and personal charging infrastructure.
Very weird that there's no mention of much bigger battery options available for the i3, still loads of them for sale out there with 33kwh batteries for less than £10k. Not to mention the range externder/hybrid versions too.
I have an i3s with the 120 AH pack. Really great range.
but the idea of the comparison was to take a 10 year old car and at that time there was only the 21 kWh for sale. I have a 33 kWh with rex and a very happy with it.
When Dave Cameron was top dog he announced that they would have chargers in every petrol station and range anxiety would disappear. Turns out that he was telling porkies.
It is entirely the lack of a proper charging network that lets these, otherwise decent cars down, what a shambles.
When I had my first EV, there was only one rapid charger within 10 miles of my home, now there are 10. Brighton was always a problem area.
we have a zoe and the only thing that gives me range anxiety is finding a working charger. EVs are great, charging network, not so great.
I have a Nissan Leaf, and have stopped driving on motorways after an episode where I was stuck with almost no charge and no charger working on a certain and notorious M11 service station at night. I ended up crawling to a remote and slow charger which means that my journey took about 4 extra hours than planned. Not enjoyable having to sit in the cold and dark for hours and feeling very vulnerable. Never again, with the parlous state of our charging network.
@@TL-xw6fhJust buy Tesla if you do a lot of long trips. Easy, fast and works 99% of the time
Sold my Leaf and got an MG5, trouble was on the horizon with lack of Chadimo chargers.
On the way north out of Brighton why didn't you travel another 2 miles to Pease Pottage where there are 14 CCS chargers! Maybe it is only because 12 of them are 350kW.
Like others have mentioned, not sure why a smaller battery i3 car is used when lots of 40kwh /120ah options are available with ranges of ~150miles. Also, i3s were designed as urban/suburban cars and have great fuel efficiency in such places, but do not have good fuel efficiency at motorway speeds. Fantastic cars still to this day, but not in a motorway or long-distance scenario.
The i3 won the 500km challenge 4 years ago we did with ievoa. Now I own a mg4. Charges at 140kw. Awesome. Cars have improved massively.
Leaf 2018. 8hrs 15
Zoe 50 2020. 6hr 20
I3 2018. 6 hr15
I3 was on same Ionity twice
Zoe used an extra stop to test a 150kw. So change hopped it.
Leaf rapid gated big time. Buy a 30kwh or something else. I3 or Zoe 50
Watch newer Zoe star rating. Only buy 2020 50kwh
A take-away for electrical engineers is that, as vehicle range increases, less destination/en-route charge is needed. Which means that the impact of driven energy use (kWh of drive) gets imposed _on the home LV system_ as shown by the MG4. New LV networks, please!
All very well saying the MG has managed the distance in one go, but it does have a higher capacity AND it is much newer...
Lots of change and lots of progression, but clearly the charging remains a problem with chargers not accepting certain types of payment or simply not functioning at all. I see it here in France too - very frequently on the motorways signs saying no charging available at the next services...not due to them all being in use, but because they are not functioning...
I’m absolutely amazed that you had problems with the Gridserve charging point. I take my Zoe to Brighton every year and have had no problems whatsoever with the Gridserve at Pease Pottage!!
That's what I thought! I was surprised when they called Brighton "EV friendly", the Blink chargers are some of the worst I've ever used. Why didn't they stop at Pease Pottage?!
I have found some of Gridserve's older chargers can be dodgy, but their customer helpline has always been excellent. I highly rate Gridserve
My 2015 I3 Rex is holding up well, I think the battery management is excellent, it's free noise maker so very quiet ride.
I think this test combined with the comments shows that EVs work best for smart people, but dumb people can use them too
this video was good you guys are driving far with electric cars the video has made it more realistic to drive electric cars but the issue I am still thinking about is driving around to find charging points
That's what Tesla's are for.
An issue i have with the video is the fact they keep talking about cheapest MG4, yet they use the Long Range SE and not the actual cheapest thats about £3k less. I love EVs and have owned a 22kwh zoe and a 64kwh Kona. Night and day in terms of range. Biggest thing with Zoe is their doors are made out of tin foil, Renault... Enough dmsaif and just the last of CCS really hurt them. The fact they had CCS as an optional extra on the 50Kwh car to start with was a joke.
MG is a good car and nearly bought one... Just a couple of things put me off... MG as a company still unknown and their customer service is attrocious.
Can’t wait for the expert EV opinions from people who’ve never driven one in their life…
I own i3 with range extender which i use as tool 😅 and as car I have Alfa Romeo Giulia V
I had the option to get a new Zoë or MG. I spent weeks deliberating and eventually settled on a 2019 (69 plate, lol) i3s. It's really a great car. RWD, tight turning circle, VERY efficient drive train (140+ miles in summer). It's a really great car and feels very special.
Turning circle on the i3 really is fantastic, pleasantly surprised on the odd occasion I drive it.
Brighton is a nightmare for charging an EV, I had trouble on multiple occasions there. Plus EVs aren’t properly really long range vehicles yet. Great for short repetitive journeys, but get on the motorway and watch those miles disappear at a rate of knots.
Maybe they'll mention it later in the video, or I've missed it. But seems quite important to mention that they've got the AC charging only version of the Zoe, which definitely cuts out quite a few options when it comes to charging, both availability and speed.
Edit: they've mentioned the max charging speed is 22kW, should be noted that is often the top AC charging speed available (although some go as high as 43kW they're rare, as barely any EVs support AC charging at >22kW).
Edit again: Clearly was too impatient, halfway through the video and they have clearly stated that doesn't have a CCS charging port, and is plugged in with a Type 2 cable.
Well done and interesting video. The 6 year old car being optioned with worse charging than the 10 year old car is a funny quirk of the test, but cars 5 years and older did have some odd options. Would have been interesting to have seen this test with a Leaf too, as the only ChADeMO BEV available today (can never remember the correct capitalisation).
Fascinating review, I was quite shocked at the degradation on the BMW but I guess it's a combination of small capacity and fast charging capability. Shame as it really relegates the i3 to local trips only but would still be a good car for a lot of people. The Zoe obviously faired a lot better and is still a perfectly useable car for long or short trips. The charging infrastructure is the biggest let down though - ten years on, it should be well developed and convenient otherwise EVs are never going to offer a convincing alternative to ICE power - especially when you factor in the cost of public charging.
The BMW i3 claimed range is 80 miles for the 18kwh battery.
These clowns said 118 miles which is the 33kwh battery.
That's why people ignore these reviews.
they can't even get the basic details correct.
Yeah, there's not a lot of degradation on that car. First-gen i3 does about 70-90 miles when new. The batteries on these cars have active thermal management via the aircon refrigerant, so they're very durable. The only EV that often suffers from high degradation is the Nissan Leaf, which has no active cooling system at all, and just passively pipes air over the pack while driving.
The last generation of the i3 (the 120Ah) has about double the range of this one. My 2019 model has almost as many miles on the clock as this one, and has around 5% degradation.
I own 2015 18 kWh i3 and still does 70 to 80 miles easily.
I've seen 100 miles round town in the summer
@@jeremyallan475 actually, I was also shocked to hear "a claimed 118 mile range" for the 60Ah i3... until I checked - indeed, the NEDC range was claimed as 190km = 118 miles...!!
Credit where credit's due, mind - the guys DID state that the way EVs were tested back in the day (via NEDC) was laughable, with absolutely no correlation to real-world driving range - WLTP is at least 'closer' to reality, if still maybe 30% too optimistic...!
@@jonathantaylor1998 I think that's before Samsung told them if they didn't add the buffer the batteries wouldn't last 8 years.
I read on the Facebook i3 page that someone actually threatened to sue BMW after they returned there i3 after the update with 90 mile range.
So the upgraded them to the 33 kWh battery
do you guys would have a recommendations on the right used Zoe to buy to get fast charging and no battery lease ?
What was degradation on the i3 10 years later?
Not bad after 8 years.
Almost nothing. I had a 9 year old i3 and it still achieved its range as new.
Into the 9th yr. - i3 REX, rarely use the rex, usa spec. No noticeable degradation. I suspect it was well-engineered and has good battery management, the charge rate slows down severely near 100%
@@rp9674 that’s typical for a 60Ah. Peak charging stops earlier than later models. My 2019 is still pulling 50kW at 90% despite having a bigger battery.
Five years ago I did 360 ,miles in a day in a Zoe ZE40 (Farnborough to Devon and back). I stopped at Sainsbury's in Exeter for an hour or so in both directions (free 22 kw Pod Point chargers in those days). I don't have an EV now but I also think that although there are more chargers now the massively increased number of EVs on the road means things haven't improved much if at all. I'll buy another EV one day but not yet.
An autoexpress article says the original range of the i3 with that battery was 81 miles
Charging stations available between Brighton and Oxford:
1) Pease Pottage Services (150 KWH).
2) The first service area on the M25.
Comparing the real range of the i3 today with the NEDC norm doesn't make any sense as no car is normally capable of reaching the official numbers. I bought an i3 with the 27/33 kWh batteri as used with 48000 km on the clock and have my self covered nearly 40000 km since with an overall efficiency of 13,4 kwh/100 km. My range varies from the 160 km when really cold and windy to 260 km in the summer. Haven't felt any degradation in my ownership.
From the in car video you all seemed to drive at 55 to 80 mph so you wouldn't get the range or efficiency at 70 mph. Pity this wasn't stated or if aircon was on or heated seats.
I've got a I3 with the 33KWH battery and its brilliant, I would chose it over the other two on this test every time, Its still a car that makes you feel good every time you drive which the others really don't
What speed was the MG4 being driven at the whole time? 50 to 60mph for the range test?
Also got 6y old ZE40 and 200km are usually stress free, depends on the terrain and weather... also I find that charging is not an issue
Great video! I just wished you used the 120ah / 42.2 kWh battery on the i3 to be moee comparable.
Sorry, but a 41 kWh Zoe does not have an official range of 250 miles. The 52 kWh Zoe has that official range. I own an ZE50. The handbook claims 253 miles, and I usually see 250+ miles from it.
In 2023 80% of new public chargers were installed in the S/E of England. The ratio is hugely out of synch with where BEVs are being purchased. Less than 40% of BEVs purchased in the S/E of England.
Source: SMMT
Typical where the money is spent in the Uk!!!!
Yet Brighton, with the only Green MP, is rubbish for charging - i know, i live here!
Utterly spurious comparison. The primary conclusion to be drawn here is that a bigger battery provide a longer range. Who knew?
If you want to take a view on how EV tech has developed, then surely it's simply a case of comparing charging speeds and efficiency - no road-trip required.
Glaring omission here when comparing a NEW MG to 2 USED EVs was to fail to indicate the relative cost of the vehicles. I would add that if you expect to pause for lunch in Brighton you are clearly not in a great hurry so you can moderate cruising speed which, again, is a huge factor in the efficiency of any EV and this feeds directly into achievable range. Surprised the Zoe only achieved 3.7m/kWh if using Eco mode / 60mph.
It is call following the flow of traffic. You want to do 100km/h. But the rest are doing 120. Then you are posting danger to yourself and others. 😂
The video is to show the progress of EVs over the last 10 years, not about their value in today's market. They did mention that the BMW's cost at new is similar to the MG's cost at new.
Would the i3 have been allowed in the Zero zone if it had the REX (not running)?
I have an i3 REx 94Ah (33kWh battery). I have had this car since 2016. On long journeys, the REx (petrol engine) is getting much more use nowadays, for two reasons. 1) It's actually cheaper on petrol than recharging at most rapid charging networks. 2) The public charging network capacity and reliability is so poor, particularly where needed, on the motorway network.
Charging infrastructure in the UK is terrible. I haven't yet been to a charger that even came close to it's advertised speed. My car, Volvo xc40 recharge, can happily stand 150kw. But even the brand new '150kw' chargers at the Birmingham NEC still only give you around 100kw and that's the highest speed I've had to date!
Yes, the old ones used to hold their value, but no longer........
A great unbiased video which clearly shows that in a modern EV, range anxiety is no longer an issue.
If you live somewhere urban....and if you have a brand new electric car.
Buying brand new ones is very expensive and hardly environmentally conscious though. We should all be keeping the stuff we own for longer....not just cars either.
@@allosaurusfragilis7782 agreed, after 10 years the I3 range had halved, seems older EV's don't make great purchases as your main vehicle.
should have used the Zoe ze50 the I3 42kWh and the MG4 SE 51 kWh for fairness
Those are newer version though aren't they, the point of the test was to see how far the tech had come for similar budgets.
@dodgywheelsandropeywiring5697 But the budgets aren't similar? The new MG4 is over £25k and the other 2 older cars around £10k or less.
@@harrycorry3772 You're missing the point, similar budgets at the time of purchase. Their test shows what you could buy then compared to what you can buy now. The budgets are similar. Their second hand price today is irrelevant.
you are irrelevant too though 😎@@dodgywheelsandropeywiring5697
Why have you picked the smallest battery BMW i3 and the middling size battery Zoe? If you bought an older car for long distances you would surely get the 50 kwh Zoe, with rapid charging capability. Anyone buying the older cars you have would make a big mistake buying for long distance.
So cautious in the Zoe, could've got much further. Over stressing the range.
I wonder how much all that electricity cost compared to a non ev cars fuel. My old diesel would use about £30 to £40 in diesel for that trip.
How did it take you guys more than 10 hrs to do just 240 miles? The MG4 long range can do 600 miles in 10 hours and a few minutes according to tests of Bjorn Nyland.
The MG4 is a good bargain. Sporty look, too.
Sporty... If you think a bin wagon is sporty too.
You need a dictionary and look up the word Sporty.
It's a lard bucket SUV
@@sahhullEight days and no likes. It looks like you're on your own with your opinion.
The MG4 not only looks sporty, but it is sporty. Drive one and see.
Also, it's not an SUV.
@@sailingoctopus1 who gives a fk about likes?
Are there any reasons why contactless doesn't work on so many occasions. It is stressful on longer journeys.
My i3 has a 42 kwh batter and easily does 160 in normal circumstances (i.e. not fully loaded, or freezing)
The MG4 is a bargain on a £ per mile range basis. But it has no style. The I3 is a design classic. It is like comparing jumpers based soley on price and warmth.
Totally different experience. All the 2023 cars have reasonable ranges. Interesting the test of the MG4 long range vs Tesla Model 3.... Where the Tesla was another level , way above the MG.
This could be great for our motorhome! As we can only tow up to about 750kg. It would be good to know a bit more about insurance and what roads it can be driven on. Could we tow it abroad and be insured to drive it in say France or Spain? I'll be following closely as it looks a great product!
interested to know the VW Eup! 2020 version comparison (Skoda citigo EV and Seat Mii)
So it appears that if you’re looking on the second hand market CCS is a must.
It does make those longer journeys more of a reality, for sure. 👍
If considering the Nissan Leaf, then the rapid charge equivalent is Chademo - not quite as common on public rapid charge points as CCS, but still plenty around.
I still dont get why are there single charging points dotted around. There should be charging stations with minimum 6 or 8 chargers like fuel stations instead of single charge points. Or all fuel stations should have charge stations.
It's because they can't get a connection to the grid of the capacity required for multiple charging points
There are. THey probably deliberately avoided the banks of 6-12 at the motorway stations because the Zoe (of this age) can't use them and the i3 won't benefit any more (but would disadvantage newer cars)
These comparison tests are great. Well done. Good to see the progress in EVs. If you can buy the older EV at a competitive price for the right use case then perhaps the used EV car market can still make sense.
I really appreciated your video comparison but my 2019 Kona EV has a bigger battery than the MG4 and has a similar real-world range. You can now get them used way cheaper than a new MG4 and not much more than the i3 - worth considering.
the MG4 has a 7 year warranty, i know i'd choose that over a used EV
And also MG customer Service which isn't worth a lot. Also look at what is really covered for the full 7 years and it's not much aside from battery and drivetrain which Hyundai have too. Also dealing with Hyundai Customer Service was actually very good when I had a Kona Electric.
Such a muppet show. At 17:35 The supreme muppet said the i3 has limited range refering to the first 2013 22kwh. Already in 2013 they came with REX as an option and in 2016 with the 33kwh battery. The i3 is unique and should be cherised as an enginering highlight. Connecting i3 with early days range is just willfull bashing.
If you can get a later i3 or i3s with double the battery for a good price you are going to have an excellent car.
I had a 2017 33kwh i3 and switched to a slightly modified 42kwh i3s. 80k miles total with zero problems other than rusted rear brakes on the older model. Just crossed 50k with the new one. Seems like the brake system a new logic to keep itself clean and dry, as the brake rust problem is gone. Brilliant machine. Flawed as a first/only car because the charging has not improved over the years. If it had it would still be best in the super mini segment.
Also: the claimed usable battery energy is under reported. The i3 has about 1.5kwh more when new. I reached 100% state if health after 3 years and 50k miles, before it was more than that. And it is refrigerant cooled as well, so temperature largely is no issue.
You'd be waaay better off getting a 2 yr old Mi EV for around 11k, best part of 200 miles & an avg of 5.5 kw/h year round. Better than all these cars for value & anything an i3 will offer.
@@stepheng8779 I know the old triplets have a diehard fan base, but there are also people who like nice and roomy cars with utility and a bit of fun. For me the triplets have troubling resale value, whereas the i3 is generally seen as more than a heavy quadricycle. The 40kwh ones just went below 20k in Europe and are then very good value. Wait, are we talking Seat or Mitsubishi?
In the Zoe it would have been better to head straight for a 22kw AC charger
a bmw i3 94 rex or a 120Ah could properly have done it with 1 stop, that would be acceptebel to most people, like they say most trips are a lot shorter.
You are all forgetting the i3, from 2019 onwards, has a 120ah, or 40 someting kw, or double the battery capacity....
The main takeaway from this video is that the UKs charging network still just isn't there yet.
Neither is battery chemistry.
So just like 100 years ago.
Not good enough.
Too short ranged and too long to recharge. If you can find a charger.
I made 700 miles to Aberdeen and back to Wigan in 15 hours with an i3 120Ah with four heavy adults and a dog (the car was 80kg overweight) in heavy rain and very strong winds doing the speed limit all the time (70mph). I had to stop every 80-90 miles to charge (7 times up to 80-85%) and I didn't wait or found a charger that didn't work. I also used Tesla chargers twice with much cheaper cost.
if you're driving a car that doesn't support current charging standards. They did mention it but it was a passing point - it's super relevant though. Buy any current EV (like the MG4, though I'd pick the shortest range model both because of cost and because LFP batteries are nice) and they can charge in many more places at much faster speeds. Any CCS car is in a much better spot than any car without it.
What speeds were travelling at the motorways with these cars?
Love how it started with 'stopping at ev friendly Brighton' in autumn 2023 it is by far The worst destination in the UK to charge an ev, absolute nightmare
Nice video. Would've been great to also cover the infotainment systems, as this is something that has moved on quite a bit over the last 5 years too.
Thing is with a car like the classic ioniq that batterys not huge, but efficiency and charging speed means its not to bad even by todays standards.
What about the cost of each vehicle for the whole trip
What this video doesn't mention is that you can get a 22 plate Zoe Gt line with a 52kw battery which is bigger than that in the mg4 for around £14000
Will be highly amusing when the combustion engine cars such as the Montego, Maxi etc will still be around long after the electric cars have been sent for scrap
Surely someone out there offers battery upgrades for the i3….
Cheers guys
Of limited use because of the omissions. Version, specification and battery size make a big difference; as they do on any car. The value to you as an individual of any EV is also hugely dependent on what sort of motoring you do. Reliable, as well as fast, charging options are critical for success over longer distances. Being able to charge effectively at home, or work for some, is also important. It's the overall system rather than just the car.
It would have been interesting to compare the Ioniq Electric in this test. Although 28 kWh battery is not much, I sm able to go quite far ( efficiency king) and charge my car really quick.
I chose the Ioniq not i3 , not Zoe, and my decision was right in 2019.
Today a MG4 would be an option, but I critisize the lack of efficiency!
Maybe Kona is more efficient or Ioniq6.
Could have the newer i3 42kw, heading towards 200mile range
What. Just buy the other i3 that does 120 miles and has a range extender. That was our main car for ages. Rural as well.
This video is incorrect the official range of that I3 was never 180 miles.
What app are you chaps using to find chargers?
“EV friendly Brighton” - ha!
Guys, Zoe accept 22 kWh only if your charging cable it's 22 as well 🤫 Unfortunately when you buy the car, dealer will provide you with 7 kWh one...😮
10:23 sound like someone blasting techno music from the car beside
Felt a bit bait-and-switched by the headline.
I was expecting an overview of how the cars are to drive, how the i3 and Zoe stack up against the MG4. But instead it's almost all about range and charging, which wasn't very helpful.
Of course a car with a bigger battery will go further if they have a similar body style and motor configuration. And of course you'll have a hard time with the charging infrastructure if you don't plan your stops properly. I only ever stop at places with 4+ chargers, and haven't had a real problem in years.
i3 can be a range extender, meaning you never need to worry about the range. And it looks cool. The other two can only dream.
The is a very very very omportant point missed in this video for anyone who will keep a car for a longer period (rather than swapping out on lease) and that point is that just one of these cars will appreciate in the long term, just one of these cars is an absolutely sure fire future classic. You can probably guess which one (hint, it's the rwd, carbon fibre one.....) but both of the others are going to be effectively worthless in 10 years, the i3 is going to start to appreciate.... ;-)
Minus the battery.. I3 NCM battery will be dead in 10 years :(
@@frmol1 so basically every single 2013 i3 is already dead and every 2014 car is clearly going to die this year then.
Seriously,this is clearly bollocks! Batteries age, yes, and so far most i3's have little aging. And unlike a complex mechanical mechanism like an internal combustion engine, the aging is a loss of capacity and hence does not prevent the vehicle working normally, just with a reduced maximum range. Here in the uk, people drive on average just under 20 miles per day. Even for the very first I3's with their 16kWh of useable capacity when new, these would have to age significantly to prevent a lot of short trip drivers from having a problem.
Of course, it helps that an electric powertrain is pretty agnostic as to the source of the 'lecy that powers it. Provide the correct voltage and interface (CAN data etc) and the car will drive just the same on it's original battery or on a modern chemisty version. Companies already exist to rebuild and refurbish batteries (just as they do to rebuild and refurbish engines....) so there is no reason one couldn't simply have the battery updated as necessary when the time eventually comes (which isn't this year btw ;-)
@@maxtorque2277 im biggest supporter for EV (already bought new house and instaled photovoltaic) and now im looking to buy EV, also im hobby electric engenier so i compleatly understand you. I would love to have I3 with repassed/updated battery. But true is that 10year NMC cell will have 20-25% degradation, there will be high internal resistence that might be fire hazard and who knows how many charges its got left :( unfortunately i know how hard is to get new battery for old car, maybe the cell factor is not producted anymore :( it would be amazin if we can buy 2013 I3 and get new battery for 3-5k, but i dont think it will happen. :/
The infrastructure really needs sorting out.
MG4 best in every way…
What about those people who can't afford £25k on a new MG4 but CAN afford up to £10k?
Don’t forget the £700 to £1000+ for the home charging point installation.
Totally NOT mandatory
Which most EV newbies think they MUST get... but actually rarely need to...
Unless you're driving the range-per-charge of the car each and every day, the regular 3-pin 'granny' charge cable will suffice in 99% of cases - with the caveat that the socket is robust and checked frequently for potential over-heating...
No Leaf?
I go to Brighton quite a bit and the charging really is a problem there. Often queue for a point or they don’t work at all. One of the worst cities for EVs that I visit
Free charging at Lidl in Montpellier,France…….our Zoé is extremely cheap to run. Shop takes about an hour.
best Used EV is the ZE1 NISSAN LEAF second Generation
Oh a lovely £10,000 60mile run around. Splendid.
I'd have one. BMW build quality, 2p a mile to run, virtually nothing to go wrong, virtually no servicing and maintenance. If you can charge at home and never do more than 60 miles it would be perfect.
@@sailingoctopus1 BMW build quality? BMWs of the past 20 years have been inferior to what they built their reputation upon before this. Virtually nothing to go wrong? More modern vehicles with lots of technology and electronics have more to go wrong, and these sorts of issues are complicated and expensive to fix. OK, not limited to BMW i3 or even just electric cars, but still, it's the equivalent of buying a 10 year old iPhone in the sense that you get old software, a degraded battery and 10 years' worth of wear and tear. £10k for that? You could buy a petrol city car that's half the age for half the price. And if you never do more than 60 miles, then considering the whole life costing of such a decision would probably still render the cheaper petrol car cheaper. For people doing low mileages, electric cars are currently the preserve of the well off who can afford the higher whole life costing of not doing enough mileage to save money over a cheaper petrol powered vehicle.
@@AquaValet2009 We are discussing the purchase of a ten year old car here, what has the 'whole life costing' got to do with it?
Show me a ten year old car that has less electronics and software than a ten year old i3. How about the ECU that controls a hundred sensors required to keep the thing running efficiently.
If I'm buying a ten year old car I'm doing it because I don't have the money to buy a newer one and running costs are paramount. So, 2p a mile would interest me more than almost anything else, but the zero servicing and maintenance would interest me too. No oil or filters to change, no timing belt or spark plugs to replace, no exhaust to replace, no clutch to burn out, no turbo to malfunction, no starter motor to pack up, no camshaft to start rattling, no injectors to clog, no valve timings to adjust, no valves to burn out, no DPF to clog up, no alternator bearings to fail, no gearbox to seize.
You can still clock up a significant mileage with a sixty mile range. 25 miles each way to work five days a week, 50 miles doing the errands on Saturday and maybe 40 miles each way to visit your Mum on Sunday, charging up with a three pin plug while you're having your Sunday lunch. That's 380 miles a week, way more than the UK average of 142. It's close to twenty thousand miles a year. I call that respectable, especially if it only costs me £400 a year. A ten year old Corsa is going to cost twenty times as much, without the BMW build quality or the driving pleasure.
@@sailingoctopus1 Let me tell you, in the past 17 years I have not yet spent £10k on servicing, parts and tyres for my petrol powered car. Theoretically there is a lot that could go wrong compared to an electric car, but a lot that doesn't. Let me also say, BMW build quality these days is not what it used to be on older BMWs, independent garages will testify to that, and driving experience of BMWs is not what it used to be either. And to get genuine driving pleasure, you need to leave the city and go onto country roads, where you tend to cover more mileage, and range anxiety would ruin such a drive.
@@AquaValet2009 No, but I bet what you have spent would make a serious dent in £10,000, even if you did all the servicing yourself and count your time as minimum wage.
Not long ago, I had a Subaru Legacy with a cracked crankshaft at 43,000 miles. Engine replacement, not covered by warranty, was the only solution offered by Subaru, even though the failure was caused by a known design fault. In the end, the engine was swapped with a wreck from a similar vintage, complete with the same design fault. Then there was the automatic gearbox failure in my Renault Laguna. Again, it was a known design fault not covered under warranty. Had to get an independent gearbox specialist to rebuild it at great expensive, which was barely economic.
I'm not bitter, well not very, I'm just grateful to move on to a technology that is much simpler, easier to maintain and more long-lived.
The i3 has only 40ish thousand miles, which would still be an almost new petrol car. But at 50% battery dergadation, you have to throw this otherwise intact i3 away. Sustainable EVs, yaay.
So whats the range at real speeds and with a real load onboard? Most people don't do 55mph on the motorway unless they are in traffic or a truck.
On the M25, 55mph is an aspiration.
@@djtaylorutube Yawn. Heard it all before. Last night we came back from a weekend away on the south coast. Apart from a few 50mph roadworks sections and a stop for a pee it was on cruise control at 70mph the whole way.
300 miles in 4.5 hours with no refueling, no worries about range and zero hassle.
Thats also with seven people and luggage in there.
This kind of test where its one guy in the car, cherry picked destinations (no one's going for a holiday in Oxford town centre!) and sitting at unrealistic speeds - doubtless with the heater as low as possible and all the other tricks - is so misleading its why so many people get an ev then say never again.
@@siraff4461 It all depends on the EV. Just did 357 effortless miles today down to London and back at normal motorway speeds which given the M1, M25, M40, M69 provides a variety but cruise at 70mph where possible.
We charged twice, once for 11 mins at Heathrow and the second time was at Warwick for 12 mins which was merely plug car in, go to the loo, pick up two coffees and depart so this one doesn't impact any journey time whatsoever because the stop was because we wanted to the loo and coffee.
Climate control was on all the time but then a heat pump really makes little difference, over a 2 hour trip it's about 1% of the power consumption. Not all cars have a heat pump.
Not much point quoting Journey time really because it was into Croydon in very slow traffic but the entire driving time was 8 hours 2 minutes. The number of people isn't going to make much difference. Popping over to Belgium on Thursday with a full car and Italy early next year.
No drama.
This is the issue though and one which I readily acknowledge, there's a world of difference in EV capability and that's a far cry from people's current experience of every petrol/diesel vehicle doing roughly the same regardless of price.
If you need a second EV, an older vehicle like the Zoe or i3 will be just fine....