2PSI LP Residential Gas System
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2020
- Showing the installation process for the LP gas system for the property.
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Dude, thank you for this video. I've been googling all over the place and couldn't find direct answers and your video answered what I needed. Well done good sir.
Awesome glad this helped.
Of course another great video!! I think doubling everything up for the upstairs/downstairs is a great idea for efficiency! The 2PSI system you're doing is a great idea for what you guys are doing! Great job Paul! You guys are a great source of knowledge and ideas!
It just amazes me how much you know about the building of a home and the installation of utilities and appliances, i really enjoy all of your videos! So very informative and exciting! Thanks for sharing! 😊👍💕💕💕
Good job on the black iron especially the manifold I like it!
Hey Paul, thanks for the clarification. I know I was pretty clueless and I learned a few things from your explanation. As always, outstanding craftsmanship. I sure hope propane is cheap out there haha.
You did a great job and this is coming from somebody with
35 years in the field but I would like to go over some shortcomings.#1 at your tankless water heater you installed the shut off after you're flex line. The best practice for this installation would be a shut off valve before the sediment trap (drip leg) and the regulator.#2 just because they regulators are stamped 11" does not mean its necessarily so ( lock up and working pressures should always be tested after any regulator is installed).#3 two pressure tests should always be performed. I realize you did the one after installing your fuel runs which is fine but a second one at operating pressure should have been performed with all equipment connected ( this will ensure that all connections and equipment gas valves are gas tight, nothing passing gas or leaking).
Other than my three concerns you did a fine job, keep it going and stay safe out there.
I appreciate your insight! Thanks!
Gracias por compartir sus conocimientos con los que no sabemos casi nada, lo digo por mi, muchas gracias, boy a mirar todos sus vídeos para aprender de usted, muchas gracias y hojala y siga compartiendo sus tremendos conocimientos
This is an interesting approach to solving your gas supply issue. If indeed it will work, it is impressive. Here in AZ I would have to supply a design plan to the gas utility for approval and they might require a licensed plumber to do the work - though I am not sure if I could do the work or not.
You might want to consider putting a water filter in your water lines to your two hot water heaters. From what I understand, the biggest problem with the tankless water heaters is that hard scale builds up in them and they are very hard to clean. If you installed filters to eliminate the calcium and magnesium from the water, you would eliminate having to descale them on a regular basis.
You will need more than a carbon filter but be careful because an RO system will make your water very acidic and it will eat any copper piping in your water heaters or water lines.
Check with a water filter company to see which filter works the best to eliminate hard water ions. You could go with a salt system, but I despise salt based water treatment systems. I am betting there are well water filters which will do the job.
It's important to ONLY treat the water going to your tankless water heaters. If you want your hot water to be potable (for cooking), go with a carbon filter system with 3 - 5 stages. They are very cheap and they make your water taste amazing. A 5-stage system will probably eliminate some of the hard water ions.
The carbon filter systems can be sized to filter ALL of the water coming into your house and you can buy them yourself and install them. They are easy to install and maintain.
I hope this helps you.
Very helpful, thank you.
SUGGESTION, We put a propane tank on a property in NH. What we did was buried a much larger tank than yours, maybe 4 times as big, don't remember. My point is you will be using more than average amount of gas, with the large tank we waited until gas was cheap, yah right cheap, we. Bought it at a much lower cost because we waited when the price dropped and we bought allot at once. Not to mention those above ground tanks are just ugly. ENJOY YOUR VIDEOS, QUALITY WORK‼️👍👍. Vinny 🇺🇸
Keep up the great work.
Thanks, will do!
I love your videos Wish I would of seen them before I did some of my renovations.
Thanks for watching!
I would recommend 2-1000 gallon tanks and with your space bury them. 3200 square ft home in Pennsylvania (depending on the winter) uses 1500 - 1800 gallons a year.
Dang! I have rhianni heaters, 2 full size teppenyaki grills. Gas stove. Gas laundry. I use about 100 gallons a year
Ohh I see. You mean you heat your whole house with LP. That makes sense then. I have a wood boiler (central pa) and that things a full time job! I’d rather have LP heating
Appreciated!
3/4" black pipe 2lb natural gas can deliver 970,000btu. Few things about LP is that when it leaks it pools and settles low...which is the perfect situation for explosions. In high efficiency applications LP is more acidic when it condensates. Having multiple regulators kinda stinks. Few years back built a large lake home with LP service and we vented all the regulators like you would a commercial/industrial application. I love having natural gas...endless service.
My situation is the NG line won't allow residential tapping. So I went with LP. But I do agree with your comment. I'm in Central Michigan just north of Lansing.
Thanks!
Good job on the pipe tape!
Is it normal to use pipe tape and pipe dope together?
@@jaydak99 Technically, the mfg will not recommend it, but it does not hurt as a lot of people do it. The year ago comments were more about the "type" of tape he was using. They make different color tapes for different purposes, and yellow [sometimes blue] is for gas.
Buy the 1,000 gallon tank, DO NOT lease or rent it. This will allow you to shop around for the best price and customer service on propane. A 1,000 gallon tank can be legal filled to 800 gallons which is plenty to run everything you will need household wise as well as run a standby generator for a LONG time. It also allows you the flexibility to wait until propane is on sale or at a low price from any propane seller you want as opposed to being forced to buy propane from the company you rent or lease your tank from. They almost always inflate the price. The other thing is PLEASE plug those unused propane outlet pipes attached to the cutoff valves if they are not currently (kinda difficult to see in the video) Curious little hands from children love to play with them and could be in for an ugly, unwanted, and dangerous surprise in the event of a spark or static discharge.
this. own your tank. shop for gas when its half full and you can find better deals.
however most companies price match, renting does come with its own benefits and owning has its own draw backs
@@aron6998 pros and cons to everything in life.
@@aron6998 Maybe they price match where you live but not in my area or anywhere near it. In fact, most propane companies will refuse to sell a tank for this very reason so they can keep you like fish in a barrel. Propane companies will to some degree try to price match on Ag propane but almost NEVER with residential propane. In this day and age, you can't hardly go wrong buying a bigger propane tank for a lot of reasons.
WR Farms well I work for the largest propane company and know for a fact all Amerigas locations do price matching
all open ports should be capped until use to prevent accidental gas discharge until use.
Especially with curious children...
It is entirely possible that I am wrong, but I believe that you have to test for leaks at a higher pressure then the "usual" pressure. Nice job.
Using air not gas.
Water will corrode the metal pipes and cause oxidation.
Use a leak-detector fluid made for this application. Great video
Thank you.
You're welcome!
Wow. That's pretty cool. Just so folks know: 2 psig = 55.36 in water and the standard 11 in water, is about .4 psig. You can move more gas with a bigger pipe / higher pressure. Six of one / half dozen of the other. The cost saving is making it pretty popular in new construction.
Thanks. He is a good guy but he forgot to mention this .
Rowdy, please explain more. Like the cost savings and any other valuable info you can share about propane savings. We have a 40 yr old 2000sf home my Grandfather built and it uses propane from a big tank. I'm am thinking of building a big pull barn/garage/shop on the property with a 1bedroom,1bath, small kitchen on the property. Any extra info will help. Thanks again
Possibly, please make a series of videos to explain in more detail Rowdy. Consider that. Thanks
Do you think its going to be an issue having the regulator so close to to power outlet?
Seems a bit strange to have the gas line touching the outlet
Just an observation, but it would likely be much cheaper to install a 12 KW, grid connected solar panel system. You have a lot of land so you can install a ground mounted system.
You could install it yourself for around $15,000 and your payback period would be 5-7 years.
You could use two high efficiency heat pumps to heat and cool the house. One heat pump would be for forced air heating and cooling, and the second could be used for your under floor heating and cooling.
This would probably be your best energy choice because you have a large house. Heating it with propane in the winter will be expensive and you will still have to buy electric AC units.
A ground mounted solar panel system is by far your best option.
@FL FL Love the ground mounted system; makes it easy to steal in a SHTF scenario. Thanks
Always plug unused valves. Never trust the valves, or rely on nobody accidentally hitting the handles. But, Blue Monster is the BEST tape. Love that stuff.
Thanks for the comment!
Use a nipple and cap. Plugs are forbidden by code, I believe.
Will it help with the amount they can fill in you tank if you bury your tank?
You need to install plugs in the open holes on those valves for redundancy. Those valves can leak or get knocked open and you’d be kaboom.
good vid! could that reg below the water heater been wrenched more maybe?
You know that end part about being allowed to do these self-builds is really important and it's a bit difficult trying to find out what you need to order permits for and be certified for and etc. If you could do a video on your experiences and knowledge of that I'd really appreciate it.
There is no rhyme nor reason to jurisdictions, requirements, inspections, etc., since they are 100% politically determined.
@@wallykramer7566 I'm sure they'll typically reflect one another though, and clearly Marshall did the research on where to find all his necessary information.
is that a 3/4 stub out at 18" high??
Good morning from St John Parish, Louisiana 27 Oct 20.
The second stage regulator is usually adjusted between 11 and 13 inches of water column. Your appliances have their own regulator that will regulate it down to 10 or even 5” for two stage gas furnaces.
You need to understand that propane is not made to run on most appliances. They are designed for natural gas. All we do is change the pressure and orifices and nothing else on most appliances. They burn dirtier, and usually don’t last as long on propane.
Cap those outlets on them valves guy.
This may have been asked and answered already, my apologies if I missed it. Why put the regulators at each appliance, instead of putting them on each outlet of the manifold?
Why you dont put a shut of valve outside and a union after the regulador?
I need to do this in the spring. I have a 96k furnace, gas stove, and a 60k garage heater. From everything I have read so far I need the maxitrol 325-3L -1/2 with the vent limiter on all 3 devices. The 325-3L says it handles 90cfh which totals 226,530btu. Can someone confirm so I don't order the wrong parts?
Yes very helpful, but do you have to have a regulator on every device? I’m in Texas and I only have 1 regulator on the tank and none on my other devices?
He's using a higher than normal pressure coming into house, so he steps it down at each appliance.
He could have sized his gas piping inside the house larger and would have only needed one 10 psi regulator at the propane tank and one 11 inch water column regulator at the house. He was trying to save money by installing smaller piping inside the house.
How do you verify that the maxitrol regulator pressure is set correctly?
At the inlet pressure side of the gas valve on the regulator would be my guess.
Couple of questions. Why did you choose a tank less water heater? How did you decide of which on you needed?
I have had them in my last three homes. I like not ever running out of hot water so that is why I chose a tankless. They are rated at gallons per minute and most will tell you how many bathrooms they can supply at once.
can you tell a difference in energy savings?
How is it you are allowed to have a gas line touching an electrical box and line?
My thoughts exactly, also, don’t understand why a discrete regulator was required behind the stove, isn’t that redundant by the one up stream?
@@princepa123 No each appliance will require that regulator bc hes running a 2psi system and all LP appliances require approx. 11''
No bidy ever explains what the FF water column is. Geeezz
Man I still can’t believe you’re gonna run that whole giant house on LP! Did you consider geothermal heat pumps? Probably would have paid off the difference in less than 10 years, maybe 5 with how much LP you’re gonna go through. Your house your call though. Love the build, thanks for sharing with us!
I was thinking the same! There is enough space available to put in earth collectors, which are just as easy to put in the ground as your septic field. Geothermal would also tremendously reduce costs for AC in the summer. And I think even a heat pump for hot water would be cheaper to run than an LPG tankless system since LPG prices are probably only gonna increase in the future...
@@maxbezold1056 Like you read my mind man.
LP works when the electricity is out !
@@jesperdahl1486 true! But you would still need a generator of some sort for fan coils, ignitors, pumps etc... and when you're buying one anyways, upgrading to a slightly larger one to accommodate for the heat pump is not gonna add a lot of costs since HPs are more than 400% efficient (and therefore don't need that much power). So in the end the HP + larger gen set probably would still make economic sense...
Geothermal is incredibly expensive, and a 10 year payback period is very optimistic if you factor in the TVM costs.
A better approach would be to install a 10 - 12 KW solar system and connect it to the grid. He could install nearly all the system himself and the utility credits would provide free electricity. He could install this system for about $15,000, and if heated and cooled his house with a high efficiency heat pump, his payback period would be 5-7 years.
He could also use a heat pump for his underfloor, piped heating system.
Solar would likely be the best overall energy choice.
Won't you need to bury the LP tank to keep it warm enough for winter use?
Not where I am at, some people do in this area but it’s not necessary.
@@MrPostFrame is it possible to partially bury the tank to prevent it from becoming airborne in case of a tornadoes?
The regulators that you put on the stove and the in-line water heater were the same capacity as far as inlet and psi out but they were very different sizes… Can you explain why?
The one to the water heater was 3/4", while the stove was a 1/2" line.
Peak flow demand was very different, 175K BTU water heater 96K BTU stove
@@jesperdahl1486 ,SM & WMG , a 325 - 5L regulator is rated at 425,000 BTUs & the 325-3L is rated for 145,000 BTUs. It's just more economical to install the one rated closest to the particular appliance BTUs ( note : the regulator is to be rated higher than the particular appliance or appliances it is serving).
How long will one tank last? How much was it to fill it?
I looked for propane rates for Iowa, but propane businesses are seemingly squirrelly, probably due to different truck sizes and possibly long distances to drive. It looks like his 400 gallon fill (80% of 500 gallons) should be between $500 and $900. As for "how long a full tank lasts", this is highly dependent on usage. Do you assume a nice summer evening or -40 day? Is the house vacant or are 18 family members present?
What kind of pipe did you run in your home?
Black pipe and CCST
I work for a hose company and have installed hundreds of pipe connections that will go towards use with propane using non propane rated tape. Haven't ever had one come back or heard anything negative in doing it this way. Can anyone explain why you would have to?
It's my understanding that the only difference between the tapes is the color. Yellow for ng, blue for lp, and white for water.
What are the downfalls or cons for going to a 2psi system?
You have to have a regulator in ea appliance which adds some cost
@@MrPostFrame thanks. I typically design using n overkill approach. Is it a waste, for a combine utilities system that has a 48kw generator and 2 17gal/min tankless water heaters, possible 3 gas cooking stoves and 2 outside fireplaces, to use 1inch lines from the tank to all sources after the 1st stage at the tank and before any 2nd stage to each load? Would 1/2inch or 3/4 inch lines, from the 2nd stage to the loads, suffice for all but the 48kw generator? Thanks for your responses
11 inch water column = 0.4 psi.
Why would a regulator be venting?
I'm kind of confused why you decided to put the 11"WC regulators directly at the appliance rather than directly after the manifold. I think the restriction that you'd have to worry about is line leading to the manifold, right?
EDIT: I guess the requirement to have them horizontal could make packaging them off the manifold might be tricky, so putting them at the appliance might make that a bit easier?
@@tonygaunt7259 Maxitrol requires their regulators mounted upright and horizontal only
It's a shame that your website cannot be accessed from Germany.
What happen to your retaining wall?
Sadly had to take it out... here's the video of what happened. czcams.com/video/DG2sDUNrEao/video.html
@@MrPostFrame Thanks
The 325-5L seems pretty big since they handle 90CFH LP = 226,530BTU
Which is perfectly fine for an appliance who max btu output is 178000.
@@anthonyflynn6578 Yup. Everything is installed and set perfectly.
What I don't understand is why this couldn't be solved by a larger pipe supplying the manifold, and home-runs for each appliance (which you seem to already have). You said all but one run is short, so it doesn't seem like decreased flow from long pipes is a problem (you could just have the kitchen be a 2psi line). I feel like I must be missing something, but what?
Larger pipe could be used instead. I think he said that in the beginning.
Why didnt you bury two 500gl tanks
Time and budget for now. We can make that modification down the road.
@@MrPostFrame understandable there thanks for the videos, great ideas for a post and beam house. I have a client with a post and beam garage these videos give great help to present to her thank you
If you had put a manifold outside the house where you have the 2 psi regulator and put 4 regulators at 11" then had each regulator run 2 appliances you wouldn't need any at the equipment, or any inside the house. This would of course turned 1 wall penetration into 4.
I think I would have amed it away from electric outlet
Second
I dislike Fisher gas products. Rego is a superior product.
2psi is how much in the "WC" formula? 10-14 inch of "WC" is just 0.5psi.
First
6th
third?