Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:50 "Why did you start working with saints?" 05:26 God & Polytheism 07:54 "What saints are best for what?" 09:01 "How do you actually work with saints?" 10:54 Saints vs. Gods vs. Angles & Demons 13:55 Saints & Necromancy? 18:57 Healing Religious Trauma 21:19 Psalms & Witchcraft 23:02 Check Out The Links 24:36 Outro
As a Christian who is in the craft myself I work with Yeshua and his wife Mary Magdalene. I work with angels, saints, besides other Gods and Goddesses. There are many of us out there who balances both sides.
Relate 100%. Both sets of my grandparents were religious, so I did spend time in the (southern) church growing up. I felt judgments, but I don't feel a sense of trauma. My experience was not near as intense as others. However, I am still deconstructing, rebuilding, and learning what my relationship is with (my) God. I have also brought Mother Mary into my practice and recently started researching Psalm magick. I take this process very slowly. I want all aspects to happen organically. I truly appreciate the diversity you bring to this channel 🙂🖤
You’ve encapsulated the struggle I’ve had for years…so much beauty to be found in many religious traditions…can we not have a charcuterie board of beliefs and still call it witchcraft? Thank you both for your openness and for giving me a place to belong!
This was so enlightening! As a recovering Catholic and someone who just came back to Magic after decades, this made a lot of sense and really helped me. Thank you so much! I love your channel so much!
This was fun. I never heard of those saints before, besides Mary, and I didn't even know she was a saint. The whole time I was thinking I was going to hear about archangels so in my head, Saint and Archangel was like...the same thing. Glad to know they are different!
Haha oh yes! I have a much easier time digesting saints in witchcraft than I do archangels. But that's also my own religious trauma talking here. Glad you liked the convo! ❤️
"Expeditus also known as Expedite, was said to have been a Roman centurion in Armenia who was martyred around April 303 in what is now Turkey, for converting to Christianity. Considered the patron saint of urgent causes, he is also known as the saint of time." -i grew up as a strict Catholic and never heard of this saint, although to be fair, there are thousands of saints. -a good resource for psalm magick is the Shimmush Tehillim, an ancient Jewish manuscript that assigns uses for various psalms.-What a great conversation, totally different from the 'standard' witchy videos out there. -thank you both for taking the time to do this.
Such a great conversation! I've used Saints in my practice, but more from my Puerto Rican/Caribbean perspective. I love hearing how others incorporate things like petitioning Saints in their practice.
Appalachian witchcraft uses a lot of the Bible for casting and has been passed down for generations. I was not raised in a Christian household but when I started exploring my spirituality and looking at my roots in Appalachia, I was surprised at how much had been passed down. What he was saying at the end with the Bible verses sounded very familiar.
Late to comment, but I've started trying some psalm magic, largely based on Anna Riva's book and Ariel Gatoga's approach. The former is a rather well-known guide to which psalm can be used for what and how to use them. Ariel's free booklet and youtube videos have similar lists of uses for each psalm, but emphasizes a deeper, metaphorical reading of a psalm looking for a deeper occult meaning (there's a cheatsheet for what occult ideas various key-terms in psalms might refer to); this occult analysis will then impress lessons of divine nature on your deep mind which will bring about change within and without. Ariel's system also suggests the psalms might have pre-Hebraic origin in other cultures and were adapted to Hebraic religion for use in the Bible. I like both approaches as well as finding individual verses that real speak to the spell intention and repeating three times. Of course before looking deeper, I most commonly found references to psalms in descriptions of uncrossing baths/anti-hexing work.
And if you want to go deeper into the psalm magic rabbit-hole, there's some older grimoires/esoteric texts like The 6th and 7th Books of Moses and The Book of Gold.
It's really good to see that someone is incorporating this kind of practice. To be honest I come from long line of Balkan women who are very much into this kind of practice. Almost all Christian women who practice witchcraft use saints in their spell work.
I love this discussion so much because I love the idea of taking what resonates with me whatever and making it my own spiritual practice. I grew up Catholic and there are many aspects of it that I still love…several saints and the music mostly…so why not apply them to my practice? This is why I love you, Ivy! I learned that I have been practicing chaos magic my whole life and you helped me find a name for it. 🥰
I love getting to know more of the Witches on CZcams! I have worked with St. Expedite for money and St. Jude for love. I worked with them through my HooDoo practice and both requests were answered. I also work with the psalms through my HooDoo practice. I agree that the Bible is a great spell book! ❤❤❤
Haha! I just loved that! I believe that a lot of us are witches! Some knowingly practicing the craft, while others are doing so without realizing or labeling it as witchcraft. I was raised Catholic; went to Catholic school, and mass twice a week! My parents baptized me in a Catholic Church, I then had my First Communion, and later my Confirmation. I started doing spells with my best friend when we were 11, I got my first tarot deck for my 13th birthday, I stopped going to mass and became an atheist for what felt like forever, then I became agnostic (which I still am down to my core); however, when I had children I decided I wanted my kids to go to a Catholic Church and have the similar experiences that shaped me as an adolescent. I think the Catholic Church does incorporate witchcraft for sure; it is extremely ritualistic, they practically worship mother Mary, many Saints, Archangels, etc alongside the Trinity, they perform exorcisms(my aunt had one performed on her in the 1960’s). I find it very comforting that for such a wrathful and vengeful God that you can just confess your sins and say some Hail Mary’s and all is forgiven.
This is an interesting topic to me because one of the first entities who contacted me directly was a Catholic folk saint and even though I grew up secular I needed to go to church for homeschool stuff. I also have Appalachian heritage and it wasn't until I learned about Appalachian folk magic and Hoodoo that some of the beliefs and sayings of my family made some sense. I consider myself pagan but I'm willing to incorporate Christian things in my practice, it's a part of the history, but also so few people talk about it that it's a little discouraging to even think about sometimes. On a related note I've been meaning to make rosaries lately because I love the practice and methods of rosaries and a lot of the pagan rosaries you see online are expensive. I have a cheaper Santa Muerte rosary but I also want to make my own for her and also the other entities I regularly work with (Sekhmet in particular, although the heretic side of me also thinks the Devil might like a rosary) P.S, interesting to know that some Christians believe all saints to be demons! One side of my family is Catholic and the others haven't been wearing their Christian beliefs on their sleeve until recently, so a lot of what comes to mind when I think of Christianity is the cross and saints.
I am Wiccan I did not know up in a Christian home so for me Jehovah is one more God and is a God I often work with. I have a problem with allot of organized Christianity but not their God.
Many of the religion's saints were taken from local pagan practices - i.e. Saint Brigid, Saint Santa Muerte. Makes total sense to work with them in a practice. Also, if working with saints is necromancy, wouldn't working with your ancestors fall into that category?
YES! Saint Brigid is a perfect example of Christians adopting pagan beliefs and turning them into something new. It definitely makes sense to work with Saints if that's what calls to you. And yeah... That's an interesting question about ancestral work being a form of necromancy. I suppose it depends on how you work with ancestors. If you are venerating them, it's probably not necromancy. But if you are actually calling their spirit in and working with them, then that could definitely be considered necromancy. Interesting!
It may not be talked about in white Caucasian circles here in the Americas, but Hispanics, African Americans, Haitian Americans, and even some indigenous groups do this at times. And some Europeans use Saint Magic as well. Folk Catholicism especially.
Your 100% right about that. It was actually learning from those cultures that made me feel comfortable enough to try and incorporate saints and our parts of Christianity into my practices ❤
@thewitchofenchantment Ummm okaaaay… I like just happened to unexpectedly run into this vid with you. Oh such a small world. I literally was only down the witchy decor rabbit hole and there you were. Nice to see you. I have been away from CZcams for so long. Hugs. 🌸
It is all necromancy according to the Oxford Dictionary definition: nec·ro·man·cy /ˈnekrəˌmansē/ noun 1. the supposed practice of communicating with the dead, especially in order to predict the future. 2. sorcery or black magic in general.
It's definitely a fun debate! I see necromancy as communicating with the dead as well. However, the debate is whether Saints are actually people who have passed on or whether they are archetypal energies that never existed in the first place. There are some saints that we have no proof they ever existed. Some people view these older saints more like an archetypal energy that many people have fed their energy into over the years. But for me, if there is confirmation that this person actually existed, I would consider it necromancy.
Demons/Damons are just the Greek word for spirit/s. Demon literally just means spirit, non corporal. Angel/ Angelo's in Greek means messanger. ( ie.. God's /The Gods Messengers)
The Catholics do not consider praying to saints as necromancy because believed that these people achieved perfect communion (one body) with Jesus, and are therefore alive in Christ. They are practically gods, in this sense, sharing the divinity of their resurrected god. In this regard, Catholic Saint is a different specie of spirit (in mythological sense) compared to let say Einherjar (Norse), Kuman Thong (Thai), non-Christian/unbaptised ancestral spirits, etc.
Glad I found this video, I’ve been intrigued by the possibility of working with the saints, but felt guilty about that, being an hereditary Jew (although not religious as such, more spiritual in a Jewish way, a Jewitch if you will ), I could almost see my Jewish ancestors shaking their heads in dismay 😂 just a quick note from a Jewish point of view though, to non-Jews who don’t realise that the term ‘Judeo-Christian’ is hurtful to Jews, the Jewish god and the Christian god are not the same thing, and we really feel bad when the two are conflated.
Fun fact from a folklorist [me], many saints were originally goddesses, eg saint Brigid/Bride, so when you’re working with what you think is a female saint, what you are in fact working with in many cases is an ancient goddess hidden in plain sight, including Mother Mary, who the early catholics began to venerate and petition as a way of safely preserving their ancient earth goddess worship. I recommend The Way of the Rose for further reading on this
My Patron is Hekate. I have been wondering if I can get a copy of "common Prayers" and a book with all the Saints. I dreamed the Saints were all converted pagan entities. It's been persistent a few weeks. This is the 1st I've heard anyone speak about this link
Just a side note: angels pre date christianity by millennia … first appearance was ancient Persia (Mesopotamia) … angels and demons are hive creatures imho … and Christianity is a power source like any other, why would you not tap it?
So if y'all are working with people considered to be Christian, what's the difference? Both Christians and witches simply want the same things from these people only difference (as per my observation), the Christians treat these saints as a power above them and more of a relationship and not transaction but witches treat these saints like their employees like they are above them. You see where the guy says he made a video about the saint so that the saint could do his bidding for him.
Angels are not Christian. There is evidence of their existence and interaction with Humanity since ancient Sumerian times. They also crop up in other religions. And do fit well into a pagan and chaos style of magic. Just because the Christian church latched onto them or them onto it does not mean that they are Christian. They are independent and go where they will and work with who ever they chose to help. For any type of magician I would recommend Damon Brands books on Angel magic. Absolutely not Christian. He is an occultist and if memory serves me right is also a chaos magician same as Ivy. His books are out there and he is one of a group of magicians who write books about their various new ways of working with all kinds of things. Making magic easier and more accessible for everyone in a chaos magic style. They call themselves the Gallery of magic. I am not a member and in no way am I profiting by this post. I just discovered their work and have been enjoying working with Damon’s Archangels of Magic book. It does work.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
01:50 "Why did you start working with saints?"
05:26 God & Polytheism
07:54 "What saints are best for what?"
09:01 "How do you actually work with saints?"
10:54 Saints vs. Gods vs. Angles & Demons
13:55 Saints & Necromancy?
18:57 Healing Religious Trauma
21:19 Psalms & Witchcraft
23:02 Check Out The Links
24:36 Outro
As a Christian who is in the craft myself I work with Yeshua and his wife Mary Magdalene. I work with angels, saints, besides other Gods and Goddesses. There are many of us out there who balances both sides.
❤❤❤
Relate 100%. Both sets of my grandparents were religious, so I did spend time in the (southern) church growing up. I felt judgments, but I don't feel a sense of trauma. My experience was not near as intense as others. However, I am still deconstructing, rebuilding, and learning what my relationship is with (my) God. I have also brought Mother Mary into my practice and recently started researching Psalm magick. I take this process very slowly. I want all aspects to happen organically. I truly appreciate the diversity you bring to this channel 🙂🖤
I love that you are starting to work with Psalms! And thank you - so glad you resonated with some of this conversation! ❤️
You’ve encapsulated the struggle I’ve had for years…so much beauty to be found in many religious traditions…can we not have a charcuterie board of beliefs and still call it witchcraft? Thank you both for your openness and for giving me a place to belong!
Reading all these comments have honestly made me feel less alone in my feelings and approach to witchcraft❤ Thank you for your kind words 😊
This was so enlightening! As a recovering Catholic and someone who just came back to Magic after decades, this made a lot of sense and really helped me. Thank you so much! I love your channel so much!
I’m so glad you enjoyed the video ❤
This was fun. I never heard of those saints before, besides Mary, and I didn't even know she was a saint. The whole time I was thinking I was going to hear about archangels so in my head, Saint and Archangel was like...the same thing. Glad to know they are different!
Haha oh yes! I have a much easier time digesting saints in witchcraft than I do archangels. But that's also my own religious trauma talking here. Glad you liked the convo! ❤️
They are different; however, Michael is also a Saint.
"Expeditus also known as Expedite, was said to have been a Roman centurion in Armenia who was martyred around April 303 in what is now Turkey, for converting to Christianity. Considered the patron saint of urgent causes, he is also known as the saint of time." -i grew up as a strict Catholic and never heard of this saint, although to be fair, there are thousands of saints. -a good resource for psalm magick is the Shimmush Tehillim, an ancient Jewish manuscript that assigns uses for various psalms.-What a great conversation, totally different from the 'standard' witchy videos out there. -thank you both for taking the time to do this.
Ah, good to know! Thank you so much for the resource on Psalm magick! 🙏
Thank you for all the information and support, doing this was so much fun ❤
Such a great conversation! I've used Saints in my practice, but more from my Puerto Rican/Caribbean perspective. I love hearing how others incorporate things like petitioning Saints in their practice.
Thank you 😊
Appalachian witchcraft uses a lot of the Bible for casting and has been passed down for generations. I was not raised in a Christian household but when I started exploring my spirituality and looking at my roots in Appalachia, I was surprised at how much had been passed down. What he was saying at the end with the Bible verses sounded very familiar.
Yes to Appalachian witchcraft. I have read a few great books that have really helped me on my path ❤
Late to comment, but I've started trying some psalm magic, largely based on Anna Riva's book and Ariel Gatoga's approach. The former is a rather well-known guide to which psalm can be used for what and how to use them. Ariel's free booklet and youtube videos have similar lists of uses for each psalm, but emphasizes a deeper, metaphorical reading of a psalm looking for a deeper occult meaning (there's a cheatsheet for what occult ideas various key-terms in psalms might refer to); this occult analysis will then impress lessons of divine nature on your deep mind which will bring about change within and without. Ariel's system also suggests the psalms might have pre-Hebraic origin in other cultures and were adapted to Hebraic religion for use in the Bible. I like both approaches as well as finding individual verses that real speak to the spell intention and repeating three times. Of course before looking deeper, I most commonly found references to psalms in descriptions of uncrossing baths/anti-hexing work.
And if you want to go deeper into the psalm magic rabbit-hole, there's some older grimoires/esoteric texts like The 6th and 7th Books of Moses and The Book of Gold.
It's really good to see that someone is incorporating this kind of practice. To be honest I come from long line of Balkan women who are very much into this kind of practice. Almost all Christian women who practice witchcraft use saints in their spell work.
❤❤❤
I love this discussion so much because I love the idea of taking what resonates with me whatever and making it my own spiritual practice. I grew up Catholic and there are many aspects of it that I still love…several saints and the music mostly…so why not apply them to my practice? This is why I love you, Ivy! I learned that I have been practicing chaos magic my whole life and you helped me find a name for it. 🥰
I would love to see you incorporate those elements back into your practice!! ❤️❤️❤️ Your comment makes me so happy!
I love getting to know more of the Witches on CZcams! I have worked with St. Expedite for money and St. Jude for love. I worked with them through my HooDoo practice and both requests were answered. I also work with the psalms through my HooDoo practice. I agree that the Bible is a great spell book! ❤❤❤
That is so awesome! I am happy to see multiple people practicing this style of magic! 🖤
That’s amazing !!! I love hearing other witches practicing in a similar way ❤
Pray to Saint Ann to find you a man but.. you must carry a cross for life is the drawback❤
Great conversation by two of my favorite practitioners! Thanks for such a diverse and unique discussion. 🌟🖤🌟
Thank you so much, lovely!!
Thank you ❤❤❤
What a fabulous interview! Love you two together! 💜💜 xox
Thanks friend! I’m so glad you enjoyed it ❤❤
Thank you so much! ❤️ Justin's amazing!
Haha! I just loved that! I believe that a lot of us are witches! Some knowingly practicing the craft, while others are doing so without realizing or labeling it as witchcraft. I was raised Catholic; went to Catholic school, and mass twice a week! My parents baptized me in a Catholic Church, I then had my First Communion, and later my Confirmation. I started doing spells with my best friend when we were 11, I got my first tarot deck for my 13th birthday, I stopped going to mass and became an atheist for what felt like forever, then I became agnostic (which I still am down to my core); however, when I had children I decided I wanted my kids to go to a Catholic Church and have the similar experiences that shaped me as an adolescent. I think the Catholic Church does incorporate witchcraft for sure; it is extremely ritualistic, they practically worship mother Mary, many Saints, Archangels, etc alongside the Trinity, they perform exorcisms(my aunt had one performed on her in the 1960’s). I find it very comforting that for such a wrathful and vengeful God that you can just confess your sins and say some Hail Mary’s and all is forgiven.
❤❤❤
I loved this vid ivy. Thank y'all and blessings 🕯️
❤❤
This is an interesting topic to me because one of the first entities who contacted me directly was a Catholic folk saint and even though I grew up secular I needed to go to church for homeschool stuff. I also have Appalachian heritage and it wasn't until I learned about Appalachian folk magic and Hoodoo that some of the beliefs and sayings of my family made some sense. I consider myself pagan but I'm willing to incorporate Christian things in my practice, it's a part of the history, but also so few people talk about it that it's a little discouraging to even think about sometimes.
On a related note I've been meaning to make rosaries lately because I love the practice and methods of rosaries and a lot of the pagan rosaries you see online are expensive. I have a cheaper Santa Muerte rosary but I also want to make my own for her and also the other entities I regularly work with (Sekhmet in particular, although the heretic side of me also thinks the Devil might like a rosary)
P.S, interesting to know that some Christians believe all saints to be demons! One side of my family is Catholic and the others haven't been wearing their Christian beliefs on their sleeve until recently, so a lot of what comes to mind when I think of Christianity is the cross and saints.
❤❤❤
I am Wiccan I did not know up in a Christian home so for me Jehovah is one more God and is a God I often work with. I have a problem with allot of organized Christianity but not their God.
Many of the religion's saints were taken from local pagan practices - i.e. Saint Brigid, Saint Santa Muerte. Makes total sense to work with them in a practice.
Also, if working with saints is necromancy, wouldn't working with your ancestors fall into that category?
YES! Saint Brigid is a perfect example of Christians adopting pagan beliefs and turning them into something new. It definitely makes sense to work with Saints if that's what calls to you. And yeah... That's an interesting question about ancestral work being a form of necromancy. I suppose it depends on how you work with ancestors. If you are venerating them, it's probably not necromancy. But if you are actually calling their spirit in and working with them, then that could definitely be considered necromancy. Interesting!
It may not be talked about in white Caucasian circles here in the Americas, but Hispanics, African Americans, Haitian Americans, and even some indigenous groups do this at times. And some Europeans use Saint Magic as well. Folk Catholicism especially.
Your 100% right about that. It was actually learning from those cultures that made me feel comfortable enough to try and incorporate saints and our parts of Christianity into my practices ❤
@@TheWitchOfEnchantment Loved the interview. Gonna subscribe to you now.
@@Cuban20 I’m so glad you enjoyed, and thank you for the support ♥️♥️
@thewitchofenchantment Ummm okaaaay… I like just happened to unexpectedly run into this vid with you. Oh such a small world. I literally was only down the witchy decor rabbit hole and there you were. Nice to see you. I have been away from CZcams for so long. Hugs. 🌸
Loved this video! Due to my heavily Christian background, this intrigued me!
So glad you enjoyed the discussion! ☺️
Aww I’m so glad you enjoyed it ❤
Mary Grace does Italian Folk Magic which incorporates Saint Magic.
I’ll have to check her out ❤
Looove This ❤ and how funny I just found him yesterday on YT doing some spell work 😂
Thank you for this 🙌🏼
Yess 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼❤❤❤
What a wonderful interview 🍷🍷
❤️❤️❤️
Hiiii❤All of this! Love this interview ❤. Relatable in so many ways! From the trauma to Angels and more!✨✨✨✨✨
❤️❤️❤️
Thanks love ❤
It is all necromancy according to the Oxford Dictionary definition:
nec·ro·man·cy
/ˈnekrəˌmansē/
noun
1. the supposed practice of communicating with the dead, especially in order to predict the future.
2. sorcery or black magic in general.
It's definitely a fun debate! I see necromancy as communicating with the dead as well. However, the debate is whether Saints are actually people who have passed on or whether they are archetypal energies that never existed in the first place. There are some saints that we have no proof they ever existed. Some people view these older saints more like an archetypal energy that many people have fed their energy into over the years. But for me, if there is confirmation that this person actually existed, I would consider it necromancy.
Demons/Damons are just the Greek word for spirit/s. Demon literally just means spirit, non corporal.
Angel/ Angelo's in Greek means messanger. ( ie.. God's /The Gods Messengers)
What an amazing video guys!
Thank you 😊
Two of my favorites! Great video! 😊
Thank you ❤❤
hermoso me encanto son 100% originales saludos desde Argentina
❤️❤️❤️
❤❤❤
Hi ivy. Who was the other guest coming on? you said them?
I'm not sure what you mean - in this video specifically? Justin was my only guest here ☺️
The Catholics do not consider praying to saints as necromancy because believed that these people achieved perfect communion (one body) with Jesus, and are therefore alive in Christ. They are practically gods, in this sense, sharing the divinity of their resurrected god. In this regard, Catholic Saint is a different specie of spirit (in mythological sense) compared to let say Einherjar (Norse), Kuman Thong (Thai), non-Christian/unbaptised ancestral spirits, etc.
Glad I found this video, I’ve been intrigued by the possibility of working with the saints, but felt guilty about that, being an hereditary Jew (although not religious as such, more spiritual in a Jewish way, a Jewitch if you will ), I could almost see my Jewish ancestors shaking their heads in dismay 😂 just a quick note from a Jewish point of view though, to non-Jews who don’t realise that the term ‘Judeo-Christian’ is hurtful to Jews, the Jewish god and the Christian god are not the same thing, and we really feel bad when the two are conflated.
Fun fact from a folklorist [me], many saints were originally goddesses, eg saint Brigid/Bride, so when you’re working with what you think is a female saint, what you are in fact working with in many cases is an ancient goddess hidden in plain sight, including Mother Mary, who the early catholics began to venerate and petition as a way of safely preserving their ancient earth goddess worship. I recommend The Way of the Rose for further reading on this
My Patron is Hekate. I have been wondering if I can get a copy of "common Prayers" and a book with all the Saints. I dreamed the Saints were all converted pagan entities. It's been persistent a few weeks. This is the 1st I've heard anyone speak about this link
I’m surprised to find out I might not be the only Christian occultist in the world after all 😂
I was searching up novenas and honestly I don't know how I ended up here! Like wtf 🤷
I am confused about the offerings? If you leave a cake or a drink, how do spirits/saints consume them then?
Just a side note: angels pre date christianity by millennia … first appearance was ancient Persia (Mesopotamia) … angels and demons are hive creatures imho … and Christianity is a power source like any other, why would you not tap it?
So if y'all are working with people considered to be Christian, what's the difference? Both Christians and witches simply want the same things from these people only difference (as per my observation), the Christians treat these saints as a power above them and more of a relationship and not transaction but witches treat these saints like their employees like they are above them. You see where the guy says he made a video about the saint so that the saint could do his bidding for him.
Angels are not Christian. There is evidence of their existence and interaction with Humanity since ancient Sumerian times. They also crop up in other religions. And do fit well into a pagan and chaos style of magic. Just because the Christian church latched onto them or them onto it does not mean that they are Christian. They are independent and go where they will and work with who ever they chose to help. For any type of magician I would recommend Damon Brands books on Angel magic. Absolutely not Christian. He is an occultist and if memory serves me right is also a chaos magician same as Ivy. His books are out there and he is one of a group of magicians who write books about their various new ways of working with all kinds of things. Making magic easier and more accessible for everyone in a chaos magic style. They call themselves the Gallery of magic. I am not a member and in no way am I profiting by this post. I just discovered their work and have been enjoying working with Damon’s Archangels of Magic book. It does work.
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