MTB Tech Upgrades That Are NOT Worth It Vs Downgrades That ARE | GMBN Tech Show 290
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- In this week's GMBN Tech Show, Anna and Rich talk about downgrading bike tech. Do you need high-end carbon components? They also go through some of the latest products to be released in the MTB world, and feature classic GMBN Tech Show staples such as the Quiz, Comments, and Top Mods!
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00:00 - Intro
06:10 - News
09:04 - Quiz Questions
09:39 - Comments
12:54 - Bike Cave
15:10 - Quiz
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What upgrades do you think are/are not worth it? Do you know of any downgrades which are worth it?
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Which upgrades do you think are worth it and which are not?
"Xtr" cables. Now, Shitmano isn't the only guilty party here but I've seen the XTR logo on bloody gear cables. It's marketed as an upgrade because apparently these cables are so much smoother and better. Maybe they are a bit better but for £30+ someone else can find out, I'm sticking with Clarks for under £5. Work fine, like all cables they get replaced after a while.
"Ultra light" axles. Why would anyone replace a perfectly good axle with a £50 one to save a dozen grams at best? As a replacement, fine. As an upgrade just ludicrous.
Braided hoses. This one kills me. I love the look of a braided hose but they're no longer worthwhile. With all the internal routing, hoses are too well protected and too well hidden to make them worthwhile, half the time they don't even fit the routing.
An upgrade that is worth it is sram axs as I have it on my nukeproof scout 290, I wouldn’t want to back to cables again
Upgrades - for me it is all about contact points - Tyres (let's face it all OEM tyres are a little bit rubbish) / Grips / Seat - I would then always look to my go to bar/stem combo (currently a Burgtec set-up is my preferred).
As for pointless upgrades - Anything colour matching (too easy to go too far) - Braided cables (still wonder if they did anything?) - fancy finned pads (you don't go fast enough to justify them). Rear Mudguards (just no) - Saddlebag (are you bikepacking?)
Changing program hosts can be a great upgrade; like, say swapping Rich out for a sack of any grain or type of potato.
@@messisteve6163 It really gave me pause that my new build is coming with T axs and I didn't think I wanted it, but I figured I'd give it a chance. for every ten+ people I see that bash on it I find someone who actually likes it. So I'm about to find out for myself...
Best upgrade for XC is to improve fitness. 2nd best is a nice set of wheels.
Riding more is the cheapest upgrade, more fitness never hurts, no matter how much you may hate pedaling uphill it pays dividends elsewhere. Fresher to work bike down the good parts of the trail is the best one.
Rider mods.
But I sure wish Ceramic Speed would make a nice new cog for my XX1 ;-)
One of the pleasures I take in my bike (no electronic parts), especially nowadays, is that it never needs to be rebooted, or needs a firmware update, or charging.
Couldn’t agree more!
Too right. I still can't get over tubeless (magic) & bolt through axles. (Late to the party as usual).
I love the simplicity of the 1x drivetrains - my favorite upgrade in the last few years.
wait until you try the new GX or XO
You missed the best part of the Edinburgh bike cave - the tool chest drawers labelled:
"turny things" "grabby things" "guestimation devices" "Special velocipede doofers" "thumpers and hackers" "Mjolnir" and "haematology".
I'm so glad I caught this lol
I totally missed out on that! Thanks for mentioning it 😮
I noticed that, thought it was brilliant as well.
If it brings you joy, go for it. Isn’t this all about fun? Who are we to judge?
We agree! We nerd out on bike tech all day, it's always fun to customize a bike!
we only judge online. On the trails we ride and have fun!
You sound like a politician. All hedonism, all the time. I really don't think it takes a high IQ or unique imagination to see why "if it feels good, do it" should not be a Golden Rule.
One Up carbon bars are designed to flex to reduce fatigue. I been riding them for a couple of years on different enduro, DH, and e-bikes. They really help my old bones!
Here are a bunch of upgrades that totally aren't worth it... by the way, check out this $70 dropper remote!!!
But it has different color bits for the spot that will be covered by your thumb so I think it's totally worth it. I mean people all over the world pay extra for Renthal components because it's damn near the only way to add some liquid flatulence color to their bikes.
Exactly, the prices of some components have reached the ridiculous.
I bought the wolftooth pro remote on sale for $55. Totally worth it for all the adjustability. Saying that this pricing is ridiculous is silly. PNW is known for making great parts at good prices and even their lever is $60.
@@brian6speed everyone here has spent obscene amounts on silly parts. It was just a very ironic follow-up to a segment on useless mods.
@@stevenh766but a dropper lever isnt a useless mod and you want one with sealed bearing and adjustment. You can't expect to get a quality cncd aluminum remote with multiple parts and a quality sealed bearing for under $50. That is just reality.
Having a bike without any carbon is the best way to save $$.
I don't get carbon fiber handlebars for weight as the difference, as noted, is nearly insignificant. The main reason I prefer it over aluminum is its damping performance out on the trail. A chattering trail is going to be absorbed just that much more by a properly constructed carbon fiber bar than an aluminum bar will.
I only buy frames so it's rare I upgrade. But I think running all the same contact points on all your bikes is worth it even if maybe something needs downgraded to achieve this I think its worth it.
Run a lower end cassette and chain in the winter or bad long dry, muddy, trail conditions where you know the drive train will be damaged. Save the high end stuff. That will cut cost and you will get the same performance in those conditions.
Pointless upgrade, but I always make it... Replacing the seatpost clamp with a Hope one.
Does it match any other parts?
@@gmbntech it goes with my hope wheel set. But it's always the first upgrade and now that's tradition 🤣
I need more than just hope to stop my seatpost slipping.
What I really loved about that bike cave was the labels on the drawers. It was worth stopping and zooming in to read them, 'turny things', 'grabby things', 'nippy tings', all the way down to 'haematology'. We've all been there. 🙂
Glad you liked it. Makes me chuckle every time I see them in there
Don't you tell me not to waste my money, thats what my mom said 25 years ago and I didn't listen to her either😂❤
I think i've been watching too much GMBN. Last night Blake and Ana were in my dreams!
Scary weird bro😮
Guys! So glad you featured my bike cave! I wish I could claim credit for the shed, but a company called ühut that built the shed. Massive shout-out to Ian at ühut in Edinburgh, his design is great. The workbench and speaker were home made, and filling the space with stuff was my own work too 😂
Built an xc race bike thru my sponsor and bike shop. Fully rigid. It's soooo fast and light Arms get more tired than legs. All carbon and titanium. I did this build and my "gravel bike" is now my "roller bike" 😆
How much does it weigh?
@@oliverjacobs8594 12.7 lbs
@@johnsonjay60 holy that’s light. What frame set are you using on it? I’ve been wanting to make a sub 6kg hard tail for a about a year now.
S-Works???
@jamescourier1545 what about sworks? godspeed is the brand. Lbs sponsorship. New small brand.
I went back from GX AXS to wired X01. AXS was a great performer but I didn't really like no feedback from the lever nor needing to recharge it cause i lost the charging station. If AXS were just a simple USB-C interface without any dongles it would be way better
So I'm a big electronic shifting advocate but truthfully I absolutely agree with all the points made here.
I fit in the weekend warrior category they described but I just can't get away from the cleaner look - a lot of money to lose a cable though for no major advantage.
With that said - my wireless dropper is without doubt the best upgrade I've made. I had several issues with different droppers due to the cable routing and it eventually fouling and requiring me to pull the lever back manually - replacement cables every couple months etc which was just a pain so yea game changer for me.
Folks who have ridden bikes for decades have seen fashions and fads come and go. Ride long enough and you may see a fad arrive twice! (Anodized components a big example) Newer riders get pulled into fads. Marketing calls everything "the future" or "game-changer" and very few things are either of those in truth. Paying too much attention to how you bike looks may have some form of satisfaction but it won't make you a better rider and won't impress the folks who know bikes & riding. It will get you bonus points at the car park and in the pre- and post- ride jabber sessions, and to some folks that's the biggest part of their MTB "experience." I just wonder how long those folks will be MTB riders. Three years, until hoverscooters are in vogue?
I’m 280 pounds, 20 grams not worth the money.
You have massive weight savings potential though
Good for you, keep on pedaling!
I think going from non AXS shifting to AXS shifting is definitely worth the money, but changing stuff like rotor screws or using KCNC bolts and valve screws or skewers is a bit pointless
I find carbon bars to be LESS fatiguing and more comfortable. It may depend more on the make, model and intended purpose.
For XC the money is best spent on a personal trainer, you will lose more weight from exercise then from upgrades
Metal handlebars are what makes me almost stop mtb because of the vibrations that are killing my hands. Switching to a oneup handlebar totally solved my hands pain...
I don't think it's the carbon though. I switched to oneup aluminum bars and have a much more comfortable ride than before (previous bars were also aluminum). I think it's the better fit due to up and back sweep.
@@nasalmirror Totally could be the handlebar shape that helps I agree. But metal tend to transmit vibrations way more
I downgradet my drivetrain to microshift advent x - 9 speed, and I no longer hav problems with my gears, I don’t miss the extra gears
I wonder if y'all have seen NRML MTBer CZcams channel. He did an explainer on EMTBs that is heartwarming and inspirational, for not only ebikes, but for biking all around.
Actually, it's on his backup channel INFORML NRML ❤
As a competitive racer in XC and as a roadie, I've never raced on "top of the line" gear and components and won the majority of all my races. Are they cool, yes. Are they necessary, no!
First race I ever won was on a $300 hand-me-down. Run whatever you have and focus on having fun!
With bottle cages. I've gone for the Peatys fidlock magnetic bottle holder. Absolute game changer!! Super clean magnet screw in strip, less mess, less weight, looks very nice, and tested with jumps and rocky terrain and it still holds in the bottle. Awesome upgrade. And another upgrade makes a huge difference would be dropper posts, always been a game changer without a doubt 😁💯
High end Carbon bars are tuned for their applications, take the Thomson trail C bars, they definitely add comfort to any trail bike you add them too.
A while ago I considered going to carbon bars but then I compared the weight of my current alloy bars to some popular carbon bars on the market and I was shocked how little the difference was. I have the FSA Gravity Light bars and it turns out the weight I could lose is negligible compared to the price difference. I'm actually happy with how these bars feel and will stick with them in the long run.
I think its more about how carbon is usually more compliant. aluminum is very stiff. I remember I had a carbon xc hardtail with carbon bars and when I hit the same trail on my old entry level bike, it was immediately apparent that the more expensive carbon bike did a much better job dampening harshness and vibration
Especially in mtb where everything has to be built tough, the weight saving isn't as noticeable as it can be in road. I bought a carbon xc bike & it was barely any lighter than my old ally one. Feels nicer though.
Anna was so proud of that 69er joke, I love it lol
I always like the show, so here you go. I bought a $15 pair of CNC holders, light, wrap around small Pellegrino bottles (style points). Renthal Fatbar for the height/weight, style, want. Turns out that a DH racer specs it on the 8lb. fork. So, stiffness/weight for steering all that, right? It's a bit wide, I'll take 20mm off the ends. Grips can still back out for some extension, I've noticed.
Landyachtz is a longboard company (a bloody good one, I'm still cruising on my 2012 Switch). They recently started making bikes, sadly most are gravel but the Landyachtz Play looks to be a capable HT. Has clearance for a 2.8" rear tyre, comes with a pair of WTB Trail Boss, Boost spacing, NX Eagle drivetrain and a tonne of Raceface parts as well. At £1970 (€2300, $2550 US) it looks like a pretty reasonable bike only let down by the Avid BB7 mechanical discs.
Really glad that bike was mentioned, I'd never have found out my favourite lonboard company makes bikes elsewise.
I’m with you Rich - “Downduro can go do one”!
Greetings! Love the show, thanks for the great content. I'm a loyal listener. I ride a carbon bike, and live my carbon bars. It provides excellent feedback and response.
Both my bikes have old highline dropper post levers. Both had the ball movement. Its a superb dropper post lever. Plus the thumb lever has a sandpaper type grip that is very non slip. I won't upgrade my lever, but I recommend the old one to all.
A downgrade that is worth it is an aluminium frame (vs carbon). Survives crashes and general abuse better. Also can be recycled unlike carbon.
Carbon bars, weight shaving and more comfort. They rule in my opinion.
The best upgrades are the small things. I love my ergon ge1's they make a big difference. Plus things like an ergonomic dropper lever and shifter. Theu just make the experience more pleasent
Carbon bars all day, AXS shifting is worth it and works with Shimano cassette, chain, cranks, chainring.
some of my favorite upgrades are a good fitting saddle and tires that fit your conditions and riding style
I'm the head mechanic at a shop and most upgrades are rubbage. Now with that said I have AXS and love it... but it's not necessary, but I pay cost so no big deal. Some people don't maintain their bike enough for some of the "upgrades " to make a difference. Big pullies with ceramic bearings on a derailleur caked in thick grease for instance
I like carbon bars, I think its a great upgrade just for compliance alone. Electric treatment is fine but integration is generally woeful among stuff from different manafacturers. XTR bits over XT, yeah sometimes the extra performance is worth it (brake rotors) but generally its more faff with a higher price tag. Titanium bolts are a bit of a pointless upgrade......although they do extract better lol
I bought a Funn Black Ace gen2, and its stupid good. I can bend it with my arms, and this compliance smooths out the ride significantly (I ride full rigid).
I miss my cro-mo handlebars 😂
22.2 or 25.4? 🤔 Quite the jump up to the 31.8 and 35mm bars we see today!
Hey Anna and Rich...awesome video! you guys have great chemistry.
Anyway as for upgrades/downgrade. I downgraded from an expensive camelback water bladder (that I used to use all the time) to a regular plastic water bottle and plastic water bottle cage on my bike. Which is a lot cheaper too.
Not having to wear the camelback keeps you alot cooler and keeps the bike better balanced and more stable since the weight of the water bottle is lower on the bike instead of up higher on your back.
Cheers guys!
5:48 Shimano Deore clutch cover is great, no adjustment port, no rubber cover that can fall off. I have Deore M6100 SGS.
I had M8000 in the past, the adjustment port seal fell off, same thing happen with the replacement i bought, it took only few days, the rubber stretched so it was too loose, I kept it on, but eventually I lost it.
So I filled it with bearing grease. to keep debris, salt, water getting in. it worked well.
But Deore M6100 SGS doesn't have this issue. I don't have to adjust the clutch often, so this feature is not a must have anyway.
Others have told me same thing happen on theirs.
Rich should start an episode with anna behind him with her hair flipped over his like some crazy wig! 😂
One Up carbon bars are worth every Penny!
My Renthal bars are much more compliant and yet stronger than AL bars...they have designed flex points. I feel much less trail vibration. Well worth it. Cost me $120 on sale. Good alloy bars are not much less, and I have bent them in the past.
Carbon bars are the main reason my hands don’t go numb, when riding. The T1 bar is $125, which is hardly much over many quality alloy bars.
I was under the impression that superduro was a long travel single crowned enduro/Dh frame and a downduro was a long travelled enduro frame with a triple crown ?! 😮
Carbon bars: they can totally be worth it for high-frequency vibration damping. Don't buy the super stiff bars! But if you ride a lot of chattery rocks, I find the damping of good carbon bars greatly reduce my hand fatigue.
With all the interest in SRAM's new transmission kit, I was wondering if you guys had the opportunity to check other electronic drive train modifications? Archer's new D1X/ EDS from the Dragon country from the great east come to mind.
@0:45, I find the opposite, carbon bars more comfortable. They're supposed to absorb more high-frequency buzz.
Grips, Saddle,Pedals and tyres are the best FIRST upgrades anybody should do to their bike......Ha !
Carbon wheels! There actually a rip off! Most of them have a lifetime replacement warranty but what most people don’t realise is they are actually very cheap to make and the price tag just reflects the average amount of replacements a user may have hence why they cost 2k as you basically pay for the replacements upfront….
Carbon bars and carbon stem made the front end of my bike feel light and lively. My bro science theory is that MTBs have a center of gravity and moment of inertia and lowering weight at the edges of the bike improves both.
I put a wireless dropper post because it was the only option since my bike wasn’t built for a dropper and the externally routed ones are a pain.
hello I have a focus jam2 6.8 2022 and I would like to switch to a coil shok but I can't find any recommendation to know which can fit if you have an idea
Sorry to ask you this, but I don't know where to find this information. THANKS
Yes metal cage on the XC works for me. 😊
Its about the right components for what you do IMHO. I agree with Rich if you are an elite racer probably only the best is good enough but for most of us weekend warriors you don't need it so why spend out on it? Also I believe that top of the range components like XTR need more looking after, I have heard they lose more percentage effiency when dirty than lower range components which are more tolerant. Contact points are always worth investing in and we all have our favourites here don't we?
For some reason, I can destroy a standard (5100/6100 Shimano Deore triantrain, and when I do, I upgrade to the 8100/ XT drivetrain. It's been my "Go=to" drivetrain from the late 1990's-early 2000's
If I had a couple of K in my pocket I'd be saving it to put towards a new ride...to replace old old clunker.
So for the price of a top whack axs drivetrain I could buy a brand new base model yt Capra.
What’s gonna bring me more joy for my two grand, that’s an easy one, you can keep your electronics.
It was a gift for my son. He loves it.
titanium bolts have to be one of the most pointless upgrades for regular folk, or even majority of racers. Rich said he would use top of the range drive trains for epic rides etc. but if you were to pay for those components, would you really go for XTR, which is way more expensive than SLX or XT in the first place, wears out quicker and it's more expensive to replace?
I definitely would yeah I think if your genuinely after performance then sadly that’s the price you pay. That’s not to say mind that when I raced EWS it would often be XT mechs as the frequency of braking them was fairly high 😅
Sometimes we 'upgrade' just because we like the idea of having nice expensive bits of bike jewellery... Do we need it? Does it help? But does it make us feel good?
Totally this. I like having nice things.
Upgrades are simples. Observe:
Pricey carbon bars or fancy electronic suspension gubbins? No, sort your forks out properly.
Silly carbon bottle holder? No, plastic one still means bottle covered in dog eggs.
Wirelessness shifter or post? No, cable and splashy lube.
Easy Peasy!
With the electric drivetrain set, I'd maybe give a miss and use the money towards a jump bike 💯it's such a crazy amount for a drivetrain. Especially if your an everyday casual rider hitting trails etc. Give it time and there surely be other companies who will follow this pathway at cheaper pricing maybe, who knows.
Amazing video.
I like to think that If you rely on batteries you don't ride for long enough.
Sick burn!
Underrated comment. If I ride I ride far. Ebikes are nice until the battery dies and you have to deal with the extra weight.
@@denaude7058 it's why I use an SL version. It has less power but it basically weights like an AL bike once the motor is off. Bonus points is that I usually get longer range since I turn it off from time to time if I don't need it. I just turn it on for some assist on climbs.
Allie bars but 35mm for my full suspension buy 31.8 on my ht
Vibration absorption and stiffness are two orthogonal concepts, you can't have both. One or the other
I think SLX and XT are very underappreciated. I personally don't have any XTR anymore. I'd rather have two different bikes running lower-tier components than one bike running top-tier gruppo. Plus when it inevitably gets scratched, it's not quite so annoying.
i rode carbon bars for years, then decided it wasn’t worth it and went to premium alu bars. I HATED how harsh they were and am back to good carbon bars on both bikes. My wrists feel so much better. FWIW, I am an aggressive 200lb rider. Carbon cages suck. When mounted on the underside of downtube can break when riding really chunky rock gardens, leaving you to figure out how to carry your bottle for the rest of the ride. That was not a fun day ;)
I think electronics are good in certin cases. Bars, stem, and cranks for bikeswhere weight is not the focus then those arent worth splashing the cash. Brakes, suspension, wheels , and drivetrain are worth the upgrades!
Good tires, good brakes, these are items that should be on the top list. Downgrade? Maybe I’ll let go of a fancy cyclocomputer for a more simple one?
I admit ive never had Carbon bars but ive always heard the exact opposite of what she said. My impression was that the main reason people get them is for their lack of stiffness.
I personally think that getting a top of the line dropper is a much better upgrade than getting top of the line drivetrain
How about switching all your screws to titanium?
#askgmbn #askembn After reading an article on the BBC news website regarding e-bike batteries exploding during charging, and calls for more regulation on e-bike batteries. Do you guys have any ideas what the new regulations could/should be? Keep up the good work and hopefully you guys can get involved with the government body to setup the correct regulations for e-bike batteries.
This topic of aluminum vs carbon bars seems to come up a lot but how come titanium bars never seem to get any mention? I switched from aluminum to titanium bars and have been well pleased that I did! Spendy, yes. But worth it for the superb ride quality. BTW I've got the Roost titanium bars.
Ive heard one of the potentially off putting things of a ti frame is that it can feel harsh but also noodlely, but probably just an indicator of how difficult it really is in material and frame engineering to optimize the right thickness and shape of a structure to truly get the most benefit out of it's properties. It's the first I've heard of a ti bar
Titanium tends to be flexible along its length, unless thick-walled AND large-diametered. Ti also is very hard to bend (versus steel or aluminum alloys of similar application). Folks who enjoy cutting and joining Ti tubing can make some decent handlebars but usually they are much heavier, or much flexier, than aluminum counterparts and steel counterparts.
In the 90s and 00s several different Ti bars were available. Remember that in those days, bars were 660-680mm long vs 760-800 today. Everyone I knew who tried one said they were noodly and therefore a bit scary.
Can one group of people invest in flight attendant and share it after each of them get their settings?
Way more than 20 grams! Plus they feel better. On sale you can get them as cheap. Agreed wheels are a better upgrade.
I love AXS for the fact that it never needs to be adjusted. I would rather charge a battery and have precise shifting than adjust a barrel adjuster because of cable stretch. I also find the trim adjust on the AXS way easier to do while riding than the barrel adjuster. But even with that and its really nice shifting performance , it is hard to justify the MSRP At most, I would pay for a used GX AXS upgrade kit
everybody should buy a suspension seatpost ! ! ! XLC SP-S08 is my fave. i have it on my hardtail, just as my fat full suspension 1500W 160Nm folder.
If you hate derailers like myself, you could switch to an internal hub.
Top spec fork upgrades are generally not worth it for most riders. The non competitive rider will not appreciably benefit from the ability to find tune high and low speed damping/compression. In fact, having too many adjustments to fiddle with will be a point of frustration for most.
Might as well get airbags fitted on a mtb
Not sure how "upgrading" the same exact model of drivetrain to a heavier electronic version calling it a no brainer, "must have" for racing is puzzling .Adding substantial weight for marginal shifting characteristics is a debatable upgrade imo. If I wanted to plug my bike in, I would just get an ebike. The same people fretting about some eco friendly tire sealant running around on super expensive blood-lithium batteries just to change their gears or run their suspension is Hi-larious😂
The worst upgrades I’ve faced are the ones forced on me - press fit bottom brackets, internal cable routing etc etc.
I think you've misunderstood what upgrade means .
OneUp Components carbon bars are 100% worth it. But they’re pretty much the only ones out there doing it differently.
We Are One, Da Package
@@GHinWI I'm about to get mine to put it to the test. I heard its the softest you can get, and my hands going numb/sharp pains are the number one thing stopping me from riding more right now
Carbon bars are 200g lighter, that’s a nice weight drop
Calling the Tour Divide a MTB race is silly. It is a bikepacking race and bikepacking always favors function over form so dropbar or flatbar is purely preference of the rider.
Downgrade which is worth it is: downgrade to Shimano HG freehub body and use standart cassete with 11t cog. 10T cog doesn't worth it for use, it wear out very quickly and I never use it anyway. Bonus to that downgrade is HG freehub use bigger bearings that last forever. In my microspline I have 3rd set of bearings (in 2years) because they are too small and they cannot handle the forces in freehub and go noisy very quickly. So next time - HG freehub with garbaduk 12speed cassete.
I NEED DAT FORK!!! ❤
1840, Spain, Guns and Rifles
now im having seconds thoughts on buying the GX AXS
Funny how riders are like I need to save grams. But I have a full beard.
Disagree on Carbon Bars. I don't run Carbon anything on my trail bike - EXCEPT Carbon Bars. Anna has been using the wrong products (like the Hope bars shown in the vid, notoriosuly brutal!). There are plenty of carbon bars that offer a real performance benefit in terms of comfort & vibration damping. Oh and, step away from the 35mm....!