I Need to Apologize... This Device is Bad
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- čas přidán 1. 05. 2024
- Today I talk about why you haven't seen more PinePhone Pro videos from me.
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• Is Linux Mobile Ready?
#pinephone #linux #thelinuxcast - Věda a technologie
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Hey @thelinuxcast I work with Pine64 in a volunteer capacity and have been involved with them for a few years. If you'd like we can setup a call to chat about the pinephone ecosystem.
I do not think an apology is in order. As you discover new facts you update your opinion. This is indicative of a wonderful person.
I think it's good to make an apology since before blaming plasma matt could've done some more fact finding instead ahead of making a video
This is both informative and disappointing.
As someone who has one of the original pinephones I'm sad to hear this. I bought one of the community edetions back when they were doing those to support development. I've tried various distros on it since and it's been lack luster to say the least. I knew going in that the original model was more of a proof of concept and was low speced to to start with. I was hoping the Pro model would change that, but it seems not.
I'm kind of in the same boat. I've had the Pinephone for a few years now. I've primarily used it as a battery powered portable SBC and I love that potato, but I knew the specs were low to begin with, but it's fun to see it running Kubernetes jobs as part of a local K3S cluster.
What really surprises me is that the Pinephone Pro hardware should be /fine/. I've run desktop Linux on the RockPro64 without many issues (other than 4Gb of RAM being a bit on the low side.) The Pinephone Pro hardware is, IIRC, pretty similar to the RockPro64. At this point, it's not top of the line, but it should be sufficient to run mobile Linux with acceptable performance. Seems odd, but I haven't really looked into firsthand accounts of Pinephone Pro usage. Definitely disappointing to hear.
In the world of youtube apology videos this one is the best. At the start of the video, without even knowing what you are apologizing for, i accept your apology.
Side note. The only time i have had a kernel panic in linux was because of a hardware issue.
the hardware ain't that great, that's why i put down the pinefone and went back to rooting android. maybe in another 5-7 years it'll be ready for a daily drive
Paid $100CAD for my Pixel 3aXL running Ubuntu Touch, its been my main devices for 2 years now. Never made sense for me to get a native device when regular phones can run linux mobile. Its like buying a laptop designed for linux vs buying one off the shelf. The linux built one will prob be more expensive and have less good hardware. Its sad but true.
I would only buy a Framework laptop, and Fairphone with the removable battery and no glue best repairability. Framework is even working on an open-source UEFI, which is awesome to see.
To be fair the price is justifiable because the kill switches, replaceable battery and design cost them more since they're not mass produced.
And being able to run GNU/Linux, ARM-compiled programs with it as well.
I have the original pinephone and the phosh interface was usable, really liked sxmo too, but the device was always getting stuck in a loop coming out of sleep and overheating in my pocket.
The level of honesty is priceless! Can't pixel phones load these mobile spins of linux?
was tempted to get a pinephone and then i saw the hardware and thought that may not even be usable for what little i do with a phone
Dude, when I was first into computing, the idea of having pocket computers would be beyond awesome. It obviously ended up not the case, but that's not really because of the pocket computer, more so on how the system got involved into all this. People need to value their privacy, it's a basic element of freedom, without it, you are no longer free. So no matter the goodies, privacy and in turn, freedom, are far more important. All of those phones suck, people need to get rid of them.
People will always value safety and guarantees over freedom, if they're forced to choose. It's a simple product of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
It should not be your primary phone lol
@@YourIdeologyIsDelusional you're delusional.
I had similar experiences, but I found that it made a better terminal when connected to a TV or monitor and a keyboard, etc.
I had an original Pinephone and I tried a bunch of different distros on it. My favorite overall was Arch, it was stable and seemed faster than the rest. My biggest frustration was the call performance. It could make and receive calls, and on my end the call quality was reasonable, but nobody I asked said I sounded good on their end. And speakerphone didn't work on any distro I tried, even Ubuntu, (where apparently it used to work but got broken by an update) and I don't like holding a phone to my head so no speakerphone is a non-starter. You know, there are people who still use dumb phones, so what that tells me is all the other stuff is less important than being a decent telephone. That's the key to the Pinephone's success or lack thereof. If people can carry a Pinephone as a daily driver, even if it's not great at watching videos or taking pictures, a certain number of people would do it, which would mean it would have actual users, and that would create an incentive for developers to work on it, because there would be people out there who actually care. As it is, it's a toy, a novelty, and it's getting older every day.
Well, classic phone calls are dying anyway. IP telephony is growing. People are calling each other with teams, discord, whatsapp, teamspeak and whatnot more and more and a standard should be implemented there as fast as it can (usable SIP). Holding phone to your head is bad? Then use USB headphones or bluetooth. Speakerphones? Is dying as well … People who use dumb phones are not the target audience because when you want to have real Linux on your UMPC, you want to use it like a grown computer like at home and that is the exact opposite of a dumb phone. The main reason the Pinephone cant be used as a daily driver is the problem with the battery. Normal Linux is draining it while Android is doing a good job in avoiding much energy drain when not using it activly. The Pinephone and Linux need exactly this yesterday!!! And of course some better camera applications and functional virtual keyboards for every major language. Linux devs should do something about this instead of developing the hundredth text editor or useless distro or whatnot. Just use Arch for the time beeing, make very good key software and the Linux community will be pleased.
Btw, have you flashed it with Tow-Boot and replaced the modem firmware? Also, are you running the OSes from eMMC or from SD cards?
Thank you for your honest clarification on the Pinephone. I was myself that close to get the cheaper one, but the moment I've added it to the cart - the price rose by $50 or $70, something like that, for "delivery", which didn't seemed fair to me, given they ship it from a European country to another one, and shipping shouldn't be that expensive. That was the deal-breaker for me and I just gave up. I don't like, when a company gives you one price on the shelf and a different one at checkout.
Now, after watching your video I'm just glad I gave up on buying it.
However, I'm still very enthusiastic about having a Linux mobile, so I'm paying attention, whenever something interesting will show up.
I've been wondering about the state of the Pinephone. I wanted to get one but I had no real use for it.
Where can I buy Francis merch?
I'm willing to sacrifice a lot of flashiness and features for freedom on mobile; but it's got to be able to make calls and send text messages, do it well, and not be laggy. And the battery better last at least 12 hours if I'm using it lightly.
NOBODY IS USING TEXT MESSAGES ANYMORE! Use Email alkready even mobile. Even classic phone calls are dying. More and more people are using IP telephony like MS Teams, Discord, Whatsapp, Teamspeak etc. more often.
It does send SMS and make calls. Kinda laggy it is, unfortunately. Battery does not last very well.
From neck beard to neck beard, it’s good to admit you’re wrong. It’s a learning and teachable moment. Keep up the good work.
Hmm, does postmarketOS not work well? I heard that there was an update to gnome-mobile that seems rather interesting. Actually I’m on the fence to get a device for postmarket because of it.
These phones are low spec, put it on another phone.
I use an OG Pinephone with Mobian/KDE Plasma as a "daily" driver. I loaded Mobian with too much difficulty--I can claim to not be a command line king/hardcore coder. It all depends on what you want to do with it. Is it slow? Yes. Does it suck in terms of battery life. Yes. Is it buggy and unpolished? Yes. Would I recommend it to someone who depends on their phone being a replacement for their computer--NO. I use a phone as a...phone, plus a few other things (texts, mainly). In that, the Pinephone is--adequate--and that is enough. What am I missing? Well, google or the fruit company tracking me. Not being a walking receptacle for advertising with every kilobyte of my existence being sold to the highest bidder. I can turn off a whole host of systems with a hardware kill-switch.
It's a choice. Some people are going back to 'dumb" phones...but they may discover they're not as dumb as they think. Most of all, it's about control. The path of most resistance is what I choose.
Same here exept it's Mobian/Phosh, I would prefer KDE but always had problem with calls. I tried Manjaro, Alpine, Suse and some others with little or no success so I stick to Mobian. I wouldn't recommend it but I love to have total control on it. My first smartphone was a Fairphone 2 and I was frustrated with android or unbuntu touch.
Really, it would just be cool to have that phone as a terminal, w bt and nmcli, a few other things. Just a shell w connectivity, like termux and ssh. It would be handy just like that. All cli tools, maybe nushell.
For me, I have no problems with plasma mobile on my dell venue 10 pro with fedora installed on it. Maybe because it is fedora and using x86....
i agree, was fun to have 8 different OS at boot with me.ubuntu toutch & alpine based was best. On the no-pro-pinephone
Switched To Linux recently did a good set of videos of using a pinephone with various distros.
@@eds8691 they are. But he has a Pinephone (not the Pro), so different device and different experience.
You should give postmarketOS a try, the wiki seems to give the impression that they have the installation process and development working fairly well. I trust them overall for Linux mobile the most even over the ubuntu touch crew.
No! To many dumb niche distros should not be mentioned and push. Its a waste of time even developing them for the time beeing. Support a major distro first like Arch and make the key software usable. Other distros will follow when the basic is running like a charm. The devs should focus on one thing first!
@@gintokisakata7490 PostmarketOS isn't really a niche distro, not in the "Linux Mobile" space at least, they've helped set up a lot of the groundwork that distros like Mobian were able to then pick up.
Are Boot Loops similar to Fruit Loops?
Pine64 seems to charge double than what they should for cheap hardware. They're not a good value, they just sell cheap quality products.
Send it to the competent engineers/installers at pinephone.
When you are talking with people who have integrity, apologizing for being wrong usually earns more respect rather than anything else.
Sidebar but what browser do you use? Looks good.
Vivaldi
Why would you want to do development on such a small device? I suppose it always depends on the use case, but I have always preferred doing things on a laptop compared to a phone, and you can just use a bluetooth headset of whatever type you prefer to do phone calls and use something like google voice to make phone calls and use a laptop that has cellular connectivity even if it doesn't officially support phone calls.
Not on it but for it.
@@TheLinuxCast Oh, my bad that makes more sense.
The PinePhone looks interesting--especially with the physical switches to turn off connectivity--but it's clearly not ready for regular use. I'll stick to CalyxOS on a Pixel for now.
I've heard that degoogled Androids work better on Pixels, but it's really ironic that in order to free yourself from Google you first need to buy a (not cheap) device from them
@pmmeurcatnpics So you are not well informed. I have a Galaxy A52 that is compatible with LineageOS, an Android distro, which doesn't come with Googled by default. You can find a lot of good phone models you can change ROM.
@@ibaqueroberto1942 well I did use a lot of custom ROMs on a mid-range Xiaomi back in the days, so I do now that you don't necessarily need a Pixel for that. It's just that I've recently read an article about GrapheneOS, saw that it's for Pixels only, and assumed that this is a common thing now. But it may very well be that this is exclusive to GrapheneOS
I got a pine book pro a few years ago and it was total garbage. The screen came deatached, it was extremely slow and buggy, and the soldering seemed to be made by me, which is NOT a compliment. And it was 400€, aka 500$ at the time.
there's an entirely different way to build such a device that might work far better, but it'd be both more bulky and sleeker, also more likely to be compatible with everything.
Hoping on that shiny new train called "youtubers destroy startup companies"? ;)
I am the new MKBHD!
I had a better experience with droidian on pixel 3a or oneplus 6T than those crappy pinephone. If they made it $1000 and made it high end, i would buy another one.
If we could put a sim card and make calls etc with a steam deck, I would.
How cool wouldn't that be? But for some reason, we can't.
I wonder if Linux can run on a Pixel Fold?
I am so waiting for a foldable UMPC with Linux (pls Arch) for years now! Its so obvious to develop something like that. Why is nobody doing it but bringing the hundredth bulky laptop? I dont understand this … The future is already here, so please wake up already, dear Linux community!
I have a PinePhone Pro (and many other Mobile Linux devices) and... I agree that it is not very good. In a way, the slower original, AllWinner A64 powered PinePhone is a better device, as it is more stable. I have had the best results with postmarketOS and DanctNIX (Arch Linux ARM for the PinePhone and PinePhone Pro) with Phosh.
If someone wants to get into Mobile Linux, I recommend you to try postmarketOS on a OnePlus 6 or Xiaomi Poco F1 - or an original PinePhone. If you have lots of money: I like my Librem 5 very much, but to just get an idea, it's likely too expensive.
The thing is the Pinephone Pro, being a newer and pricier device, has had way less development time from the community, so it's expected that it will lag behind when compared to the OG Pinephone. Hope it will still continue to improve, even if slowly...
Honestly, you're better off getting a midrange device from the past 5 years at quarter of the price. The specs are just awful
In their defense, other phone companies get part of their revenue on bundling a bunch of apps into their devices, which is not an option for Pine64. Other factor is they don't yet have economy of scale. Still overpriced tho.
Man, Matt, are you listening to Alexandre Oliva's Q&A in the saturn room at libera right now? I hope so. And the great talk prior. Right up your peeve, and upstream solution space addressed. Methinks you'll like it like having a big dump and sigh of relief. It might even refocus and re-enliven thelinuxcast imbued with new passion for principles and purpose. Too much hype? Well, it's poignant to me anyways. Make of it what you will.
It isn't bad... it's terrible.
It is impossible to make serious calls with the Pinephone (Pro). The voice quality for the other person is absolutely unusable, and has been for years. Somehow I have the feeling that nothing has been done about it for years. This is absolute basic functionality, regardless of the Linux distribution. The fact that nothing has been done about it all these years and with the knowledge that the Pinephone and the Pinephone Pro have the same modem leads to the assumption that the Pinephone (Pro) has a design defect that leads to poor audio performance that cannot be corrected by software. I can ignore all the other problems but I would like to be able to make phone calls.
Is the problem only in calls, or does it affect regular audio recording as well?
wierd your audio seams more comppresed or something not sure if its on my end dose anyone agree?
Not "I'm sorry", but I apologise...
Dang, after Librem turned out to be crap, I pinned my hopes on PinePhone.
some regular android device can run linux mobile operating system better than the hardware that specifically made to run linux mobile.
First
EDIT: Eh it is what Steam would call an "Early access" product. I hope it gets WAY better and I can ditch Android before I die.
If we want it to improve, then we need to help it improve. Either contributing in some way (code or documentation, for example) or by donating.
600 euros for 3000mah battery, IPS 720p processor whose on definitely not 8nm as RK3588 would be, which is also bs, since china wasn't even close to 14nm process node. RK3399S which pinephone pro uses probably also 22nm for 2020 which is straight up trash given it probably has a gate and pitch of above +60nm, which for this year's standard is a worthless cpu.4GB of ram and oh yeah plastic frame. 600euros like are you kidding me, they're giving us 2015 speca. I'd give 100 euros for this, given this is a linux phone, okay 300 euros would be fine too, max 350, 600 euros, That's a joke..
That's my take on this phone, I wish they added to the list of supported devices, poco phones from Xiaomi, I'd definitely would use.
Hey, thanks for trying.
I'm gonna keep trying. Ubports is next.
I thought the pinephone was for developers.
It is? What is your point?
@@ibaqueroberto1942 yes it is. my point is it is meant for writing software and test it. not to have a nice user experience.
@@ibaqueroberto1942 2nd paragraph under "Description"
@@TuxTuxedo-oc9kg I think you missed the point on the video. The commentator is presuming it is impossible to use PinePhone for any reason. And it is, PinePhone is horrible for anything, I have one.
@@ibaqueroberto1942 what did you want to use it for?
Pinephone as well as other "open source phones" are what wouldnt even qualify as a demonstrator prototype unit for normal manufacturers. They're a joke. All two of them 😅 Literally pre-2015 tech sold for high prices because "fReEdOm".
If you want to be Google free buy a Pixel, Xiaomi or anything with an unlockable bootloader and put a custom rom like eOS on. You end up 3-4 times the processing power, much better compatibility, better cams, everything better for the same or lower price.
Last
You keep saying Linux Mobile like if Android is not the same exact Linux xD
Google run their own kernel tree for Android ... It is not vanilla kernel from Linus
@@tibbydudeza yes, and I run the Zen kernel but it is still Linux like the Android kernel is.
But that is not the point. If you call Android Linux just Android, may as well call GNU Linux just GNU.
@@user-hh4br5tk5pAndroid is Linux, but it is not GNU/Linux. I like to call it Android/Linux for that reason. (Yeah, I sounded a lot like RMS, right? lol)
@@softwarelivre2389 I like that clearer naming. I also like to call the OS just Livre Software like your user name, because despite GNU Linux being the two major pieces, there are a lot of other essential smaller pieces that forms the OS.
@@user-hh4br5tk5p while I agree with your point, GNU/Linux systems are not the only FOSS systems out there, it is just the biggest one. Other free and open source systems include ReactOS, RedoxOS and the BSDs, for example.
Maybe GNU is not the correct term to refer to all the ecosystem, but they were the ones that started the GNU/Linux ecosystem we use today, with the creation of GNU Coreutils, GNU's Image Manipulation Program (GIMP) and GNU Network Object Model Environment (GNOME) in the 90s.