Spindle Motor Replacement on Fadal CNC Mill
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- čas přidán 20. 08. 2024
- Hello everyone, welcome to At-Man Unlimited. Time for more maintenance, this time we are going to tackle the spindle drive motor. I have a vibration in the spindle and some testing showed that the motor is a major part of it. We are going to pull the motor out and send it for rebuild and balancing.
If you have any questions please feel free to comment or email me, AtManUnlimited@gmail.com
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I'm a newbie, nowhere near as sharp as At-Man and all of this is new to me. This story is so valuable to people like me. Wow, thank you for sharing.
Excellent video, quite informative on the importance of CYA by making the work order clear leaving no mistake of your expectations as to the requested service and covering any issues for the benefit of all parties. I especially like that you took the time to provide the shop with diagrams and clear instructions that they seem to have ignored or overlooked. There is a big difference in doing business with a vendor and getting the business done to you by a vendor. Glad it at least was an improvement in the end but at twice the estimated cost is hard to swallow when as Keith Fenner would say they left "pecker tracks" on the item showing possible mishandling or abuse of that poor pulley and possible the shaft too.
Again thanks for an informative and cautionary video.
Thanks John, If it helps anyone with there work then it is well worth the time. I'm a vendor by day so I have been on both sides of the fence.
I live in Argentina, a much less industrialized country than yours, but when it comes to machines and people, the "horror" stories are much the same! Thanks for sharing all of this
this is why i like to work with small businesses instead of a ""factory or a company'' just more bureaucracy
You sir, are the best storyteller.
LOL, thanks
Thanks, good one Tim. Going through a similiar experience with one of my manual machines now. Always, Always in writing.
Thanks John, I know you like watching engineers turn wrenches, always good entertainment ;)
You can balance it yourself. I've balanced lathe spindles. Using a spring plate with mirror and lazer. Shine laser off mirror to the wall. The mirror and plate are mounted to the motor.. You can see the shaking. Start lower rpm and work your way up to 5k.
Look at his video "Worse day in the shop" your little moment of shame is nothing compared to his!
Very true Dave, I hope no one has that happen. Just happy Brian is in one piece still.
I found working as an engineer that talking to the folks who are going to do the work that consulting with them personally is always a positive. Point out the critical items on the work to be done sheet. Tell them what doesn't matter and an where they can use their discretion on the job at hand. Make sure they have your direct phone number and if they have a question or concern that you WANT them to call.
If they do a good job, make sure they know and their managers know that you are pleased with what they did. If it is a mission critical job were failure or poor performance would make your life miserable... don't be cheap.. take them out for lunch. It will pay-off the next time you need something done ..like when it's Friday afternoon, and it's snowing, and your job is on the line when the plant starts up Monday morning if things aren't fixed.
Completely agree with everything here. Made a good attempt to do this.
Very informative thank you for explaining all this things in detail.
Welcome
In my experience, always best to buy new motor and reassemble yourself. Remember, not everyone is like-minded when it comes to engineering/machining/mechanics. In other words, most people's attention to detail is lacking. They just want the job over ASAP. Well written instructions and advise are more than likely to be ignored. Plus, most of these motor guys only know the most basic stuff. Give them an "exotic" motor from a CNC, and you take a big risk in getting back what is right. Like taking a Porsche 911 to the neighborhood fix it man. Been there. As always, nice job At-Man!
Thanks JP, these guys where recommended for doing more exotic work. The person that recommended them was shocked at the outcome.
That sucks. But glad it came out OK in the end. You have just about replaced every wear part in that machine! I bet Dave Decaussin would love to hear from you. The D in FADAL.
LOL, almost, there is still a lot left and I hope the rest lasts. Y linear, Z linear, Y screw, X screw. Spindle is most likely next I think.
OMG this is the story of my life. This is why I repair everything myself. You simply can't trust anyone anymore...Dave Molex connected are garbage!
Yeah, never thought swapping a set of bearings out and balancing a rotor would be so much drama. The molex connectors are ok for larger gauge wires carrying medium currents at low speeds. As long as there in places that have low mating cycles. But for smaller wires, large currents, or high mating cycles, yes they are a very poor choice.
That's funny, I just got home from fixing a spindle encoder on a friend's VF2. Molex connector corroded and shield wire broke on both sides.
There you go, another example, don't know why the machine mfgrs love them so much. For as much as these things cost they could use something a little better for low voltage critical signal wires. The DB9 I used is better then a molex for this and its still a cheap connector. Thanks for sharing!
I bet they love them because they are cheap, easy to install in panel cutouts, and Molex also offers fully automated machinery to assemble them. :) I use Switchcraft Conxall connectors, plastic, barrel type, IP67/68, and not that expensive.
Yes, I think cheap is the key word there. I have used those as well, good quality and value. I had the DB9's from another project and they fit the bill.
Yeah DB9s are just fine for this, your repair is orders of magnitude better than the original.
Thanks Pete, I try to make it right.
you should glue that sheet of paper on motor :)
LOL, then they would have painted the paper into the motor that I didn't want painted anyway!
You are in a cold climate; how do you manage to work in the winter? Also, what steps do you take to prevent rust secondary to condensation?
Thanks for the videos, most informative.
Dennis L.
Hello Dennis, my shop is heated so I work the same way everyone else does ;) But when you live in a cold climate you just get used to it. Wear gloves unless the task requires you not to. But if you dress warm your hands will stay relatively warm for a bit. The heat really bothers me, I prefer cold. Anything above 80 and I start getting cranky.
I had a motor repaired once.. did the same exact thing to me I could of purchased a brand new motor for $250 more than the repair. I even stated in the paper I gave them to inspect everything if the repair cost will be this dollar amount or more, don't reassemble just order a new one... they never called me, just performed the work. the day I was suppose to pick it up the girl came out and she said well it looks like their was a little more work than originally quoted.. I figured couple hundred whatever she handed me the paper and it was 1000 dollars more than I was quoted.. I spent hours arguing with them, they just didn't see my point of view even after going back and forth two hours they still felt they saved me $250..... end result I ended up with a used motor at $250 less than a new one cost ... after that I decided I will never have a motor repaired I will just purchase a new one. Since then I have replaced two motors in different equiptment... sad ....
I agree it is sad. I try my hardest to provide a good fair value to my customers with open communication. I have never had anyone complain of to much communication.
Thank you for sharing
Welcome
It’s 2021 you still making chips???
usually anything less than 10hp you buy new. especially if the winding are done. shrink fit pulleys are not very common with the motors I have worked on and probably not on the motors that shop sees.
if you ever want to make a sling you can use old car seat belts. Personally I like the proper slings which are about $20 and.
how long did it take you?
Hi Rob, took 2-3 hours to get it out and loaded and another 2-3 to get it back in. Thanks Tim
At-Man Unlimited Machining
that is pretty good. you know your machine pretty good
Thanks, Unfortunately I have had it apart a lot. There is about 2 hours of footage shown at 10x time laps. The rest of the time was spent testing, cleaning, and inspecting. If I do it again I can get it out and then in around an hour ish.
Diamond Eyes I should have been more specific. induction motors under 10hp.😁
Diamond, those are integrated spindles, this is just a standard induction motor with a belt to drive the actual spindle. I would 100% get an integrated spindle rebuilt.
I suppose you could have stuck a packing list on the motor with a copy of your instructions in it. But some things tend to come as a surprise and defy all attempts to plan ahead.
Hi Chris, I thought hand delivering was going to be good enough.
At-Man Unlimited Machining I ment in place of face to face with the tech, one copy for the office and one for the shop floor. Not all companies share any info through that wall.
Oh, ok. Yes that would be a good suggestion. Maybe try that if I ever do this again.
Having run, as owner/manager, of a machine/job shop dealing in hydraulic, electric and air motors pumps and valves, I might glance at your demands, but would not have wanted to take any time to write up a response/estimate.
Verbal sometimes just has to do. The customer has got to do their do diligence also about the company . Check around.
Time is money to every shop. Most shop owners are not attorney and I'm sure an attorney would tear your letter to pieces any way if it went to court. Great idea, but a waste of time.
Gain a friend by spending your time explaining what you want to the manager only, not to the workers, they don't make the bills. I loved the video and look forward to all of the. I have Fadal 40 20 I hope I can ask you a question some day. thanks
Thanks Brad, but I must disagree. I did explain it to the manager, that did not work as we see. I could have easily went after them for damaging the $300 pulley by not following industry standard procedures, but what would have have solved?
My main job is in services, the customer is always right, even if there wrong. If its in writing, and I don't agree I will either have a conversation and or turn down the work. If work walks in the door with detailed requests and you "don't have the time" then just turn the work down, simple as that. I would have preferred it rather then going down this rabbit hole. In the end, I was not happy, they lost money on the job, work was done that wasted everyone's time and money, they had to rework the part at there cost, all because "they didn't have the time" to read a 1 page double spaced, large font, service request.
I don't mind a quick estimate, but when your over 100% off from your estimate with no communication to the customer, that is a major issue. And I did research the company, they came highly recommended, was shocked this happened.
In any event, feel free to drop a line if you have any questions
Thanks
Tim
If you don't have time and think someone else making over 100 per hour can..yup, your mistaken. I've been there to many times. Now I know how to fix almost anything, including the electronics.
Buen día tengo una pregunta quitamos el encoder del motor de usillo parte ENC-0007
Para limpiarlo y ahora ya no me funciona
Marca error #2 del usillo. Se puede reparar o lleva alguna forma especial de poner ?
Acá en mexico no lo puedo conseguir me podría decir cómo arreglarlo ? O cómo comprarlo desde acá por favor es que me urge tengo parada la máquina. Lo quise encargar por eBay y que no hay envíos a mexico. O cómo repararlo ?
Estos codificadores no se pueden limpiar realmente. Es solo un disco de plástico blando con líneas extremadamente finas. Limpiarlo puede causar arañazos que interferirán con el funcionamiento. Puede
solicitar nuevos codificadores desde Fadalcnc.com. No sé si se envían a
México, pero creo que hay empresas en los EE. UU. Que brindan un
servicio para enviar material a México. Al instalar el nuevo codificador, hay un espaciador especial que se usa para centrar el disco en el recolector. También verifique el cableado en el conector. Tenía un cable roto que causaba problemas en el conector del codificador.
I can't believe your wearing crocs doing this......
Not advisable, was going in and out of the house a lot that night. The actual motor was the only thing heavy enough to do damage, and it was so heavy if it hit my toes it would have been a question of a little pulverized vs totally pulverized. I keep my machine very clean and clean all the coolant and oil from where I'm working so there is no slip hazard. I also would not recommend them for welding, leaves little burn holes in your socks. But they are comfy.
Crocs clean in a aqueous parts washer ever so nicely, especially when you get sticky oil all over them. ;)
Was there a lot of swarf inside your motor? I just looked through the fan and a bit wowed how much guey coolant and chips that are inside of it. Motor works fine right now but I’d like to clean that out. Any suggestions how to clean it?
It was packed with coolant residue. The shop that rebuilt it cleaned it.
I'm in the process of changing my spindle motor, all the wires coming from the motor are white and terminate to a junction box, there not held together with bolts through eyelets. How to know which wire goes where when the new motor goes in?
The wires on the motor should be marked. You will need to pull the data sheet on the original motor and new motor and compare the wiring. You can also pull the schematics on the machine and the wires on the machine should be numbered.
After I got all the gunk off the old motors wires they were numbered, I just put the new motors wires to the same junction box locations, it worked. Thanks, you're the man.
Welcome, glad it worked out!
They simply ignored you because when you came with these instructions they mentally rolled up their eyes and said to themselves "another one of these customers who thinks that he knows better than us".
And for that I will never use them again, I should have went after them for damages to the hardware. If a customer asks for specific things, do it, if you don't agree with what is asked for either have a constructive conversation or turn down the work. I do it every day in my job. Sometimes the customer really does know more then you and it pays to listen.
Hi, is that a regular induction motor and how many kw's is it? Does it run through a gearbox or is 7500 rpm the speed of the actual motor?
HI, HOW DOES THE MOTOR PULLEY BE REMOVED?
Hello
The motor and spindle pulley are heat shrunk. You use two propane or map gas torches and evenly heat them. When warm enough they will just fall off.
OK THANK YOU
YOU HAVE A EMAIL?
It's in the video description
MY machine CNC have a problem, when the put in mode JOG and i want move with the MPG the machine no respond correctly but only in the negative movements,. But if I move it with the jog key it moves correctly. help me.
Do you watch bcbloc2
Yes I do :( I met him at John's open house. This video was filmed in Feb. and edited a while ago before I saw his video. I felt really embarrassed with my little oops. But when I watched Brian's video my heart just sunk.
Hi , Did you Get A Warrantee from the motor Shop ? ( 30 Seconds < OR > 30 Revolution's Which Ever comes First ??? ) They Painted The motor BECAUSE THAT AN'T YOUR MOTOR ! ( Has the Serial ID Plate Look like it was Removed ? )
Set That Motor aside , Call " Fadal CNC " Order a New Motor and Pulley You will have It Paid for on your next job .
No more down time . (( Oh , Spindle bearings OK ??? Without Belt Tension ???? ) Just Say'n ;)
I have a new spindle and motor waiting to go in. Live and learn on this one.
That was painful to watch. The motor shop made some mistakes, but your attitude was 100% wrong.
Please elaborate
If you're smarter than the men doing the work, you either picked the wrong men, or you should have done the work yourself. It's never a good idea to tell someone how to do their job, it just makes them mad and leaves you resentful when they don't listen. Things like a coat of paint and fixing the broken connector are part of a process the shop follows to make sure they are sending out professional looking work. Asking them not to do that is opening them up for potential liability.
You should have checked the runout on the motor shaft as soon as you noticed a vibration. Straightening it to .001 is a good start, but it should be a few .0001s runout at the pulley. I would have welded it up and turned all the journals before balancing. That said, you can't expect the shop to quote all of that work without seeing the motor.
Next time use a shop that specializes in spindle motors like Precision Zone. Or, just buy a new motor.
Wes, thanks for the feedback. This shop was recommended by other people in the local machine industry.
The reason I did not do it my self was because of time, and I would still need the rotor balanced. So I decided to just have it done. The reason I did not buy new was due to the initial quote of work for rebuilding this motor with my given instructions. In the end they stood behind there initial quote even though it was grossly miss quoted. I did pay for the additional items to have the rear bearing sleeved and the rotor straightened. Those are items I agree you can not take into account in the quote.
I'm in the professional services industry as well. I had a professional conversation with them before taking the motor in. When I do work for other people each person has there different requests. I'm more then happy to accommodate them. As I have said before, if someone requests something I don't agree with, I wont do the work. I did not tell them how to do anything, I communicated the requirements for the job given the application, and I communicated my intent and acknowledgement that things where to be left. I even offered to remove the encoder and pulley to make the job easier, they said it was not an issue, they do it all the time.
As for paint and fixing a connector causing liability, not when its in explicit writing signed from the customer. Why would anyone spend $200 to test an $89 part they know is good? Or pay to fix a connector they know will get cut off the next day? As for paint, the motor looked fine and no one sees it anyway, not an outrageous request to not paint it.
I did not check the motor before I sent it out, in the video I said I probably should, but I was paying someone to do it.
This is not a "Special Spindle Motor". At the end of the day, its a standard induction motor with an encoder. The only thing special about it is the dash number of bearing they put in to meet the RPM range, and the tolerance of balancing, also to meet the RPM range.
A new motor and pulley is most likely in the future anyway as this motor still is not performing as it should at high RPM's. However, the brand new Baldor motor sitting in my shop has a label with a max RPM of 6500 so it would seem Fadal was pushing the limits with this configuration anyway.
I don't know. The motor shop I deal with pretty much has set procedure. Every motor gets megged, the stator is cleaned and then baked, and megged again while hot. The leads are always replaced, so it's pointless to mark them. Bearings are always replaced. Almost every motor requires some kind of machining. Every motor gets painted. The last one I sent in cost $4,000 to rebuild. Of course it was 75hp.
Yep, all of that was done except the lead replacement. They only did that as needed. They test the rotor cage as well. The only thing I really asked them not to do out of there "standard" process is Don't paint it. I also never questioned there process or told them how to do it. All of my requests other then not painting where related to the encoder, and then specifying the speed rating so the proper balancing specs and bearings where used. Without that information this motor would only be balanced to 1800 RPM.