Why Aikido Philosophy Fails To Deliver
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- Aikido is best known for it's sophisticated philosophy, yet unfortunately it fails to deliver it on many levels. In this video I explain in detail how I believe it failed historically and why it is still failing both on a physical and philosophical level.
Check out the full episode here: • Aikido Philosophy And ...
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Welcome to the Martial Arts Journey CZcams channel!
My name is Rokas. I'm a Lithuanian guy who trained Aikido for 14 years, 7 of them running a professional Aikido Dojo until eventually I realized that Aikido does not live up to what it promises.
Lead by this realization I decided to make a daring step to close my Aikido Dojo and move to Portland, Oregon for six months to start training MMA at the famous Straight Blast Gym Headquarters under head coach Matt Thornton.
After six months intensive training I had my first amateur MMA fight after which I moved back to Lithuania. During all of this time I am documenting my experience through my CZcams channel called "Martial Arts Journey".
Now I am slowly setting up plans to continue training MMA under quality guidance and getting ready for my next MMA fight as I further document and share my journey and discoveries.
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► • Aikido vs MMA - REAL ...
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Check out the full episode here: czcams.com/video/4jZ49wXyrMg/video.html
Thank you so much for sharing your Martial Arts Journey with us. Please try this,
1. off of your opponents cross, or your 1-2-3- blade hand
2. Irimi nage into a reverse naked choke.
3. Now Shuffle backward and inverted Stomp the pressure point in the back of the knee until the knee buckles and should now be on their heels being dragged around by their neck, preparing to take a nap.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, Aikido is just one ingredient in a much larger soup which is budo.
could aikido work if you add live resistance training
@@collinnicolazzo2065 I have used the above pattern successfully in security, Street defense and sparring effectively against people several weight classes above me.
@@collinnicolazzo2065 if you add live resistance to aikido training is it still Aikido?
@@collinnicolazzo2065 Aikido techniques are much more effective than MMA techniques if someone is trying to run you over with a car.
During the time I studied aikido, when I needed to play the role of uke (attacker), I was required to move in such a mechanical, predictable pattern that I felt like one of the monsters in Pac Man. Back in the day, a person could get good at Pac Man by memorizing how the monsters move and responding with fixed behaviors. Martial arts shouldn’t feel like a game of Pac Man.
Very true. And when the technique does not work it’s always your (uke) fault :D
"no you are doing it wrong."
well. Tbh. That’s sort of what “trainings” purpose is. You train to learn the patterns of your opponents, in order to exploit whatever tactics they are using. But if you only train a few patterns, you’ll never see the bigger picture
Even as a lover of aikido I have to agree with you. I would say not everyone is training that way, but... it happens a lot. I have to say, I was pleased at the attitude in a kung fu dojo when i adapted a technique with aikido and he said "that's not how the technique is - but it's working, let's see what you are doing". That sort of attitude is rare in aikido..
I absolutely agree.
I've been learning aikido for a while now and I actually believe that the techniques would work in a real life situation, but we do not practice real combat therefore i could practice it for 30 years and never learn how those techniques really work
I have been trained in Wing Chun, WTF TKD, Shotokan and boxing. I started at 16yrs of age and am still training at 66yrs old. For self-defence I believe that Boxing is the most effective mostly because they train with full contact when they spar. I know gloves are worn but you still learn what it feels like to get hit on a regular basis! I cannot overestimate how important this is. If you are not used to it then when it happens you will be shocked for a split second, long enough for a trained opponent or just a skilled streetfighter to take advantage of it and land more telling blows!
Indeed
Agreed
@Jam AK one concussion can screw you for life
Your idea could be true in a fair fight. As soon as you get in a "real fight" thera are no rules there is no fairness! You get stabbed a knife in your back before a fight starts or you stand alone against a group of ten. In this situations no weaponless MA will work. In this situation you have to go back to the beginning of MA try to stay allive and kill as fast as you can. A knife or a gun or anny other wapon can be a real gamechanger! All martial artists think they can fight, and some of then can in a fair fight but have they ever trained to fight when they are injured? The main Problem is fairnis. The second Problem is to think what happen with the opponents. We should all be realistic modern martial arts are a form of sport (what i like), a real fight is something different. In a real fight you fight to survive! A hit with a a larger stone in your hand will hit very hard. A knife or a gun will work even better. For self defense learn how to fight with a knife or a gun. Don´t get into a fight. And stay healthy and have a lot of fun with MA!
J K most martial arts were founded for exactly these settings. To fight in battles/wars. Where you actually get stabbed by a sword or something
I always looked at aikido as final stage of training for older experience fighters. For instance, a judoka, BJJ black belt, or even old boxer that focus on defense in their later years. For aikido to work you need to be experience in fighting to know how they work. My opinion doesn't mean much but I thing some of the moves do work for those who have prior high levels of combat experience.
Sort of similar to my own observations. If you look at Usehiba's teacher.... Takeda for example. Man seemed to be a bonafide badass. His dad was a Samurai and a Sumo wrestler. Takeda himself spent most of his early life studying JMA, then travelled to other dojos to learn but also engage in challenge fights (common practice in Japan at the time). The guy was a fighter.
Ueshiba wasn't. Guy may have had some skills he picked up from Takeda but wasn't really a fighter, and taught his students accordingly. Many of Ueshibas Westerner students in particular didn't really learn much else apart from Aikido. So, it can't be a surprise their fighting skills in most Aikido classes today are non-existant.
Exactly as you can’t fight one one one with Aikido if you do you’re going to get seriously injured, or injure the other person. That is part of the problem with it as if that is your only study you have no experience in sparing up with someone else. So you can get fucked up if you fight like you learned in the dojo with no experience. Yet if you take it over the top you can cripple people fast. However the problem with competitive martial arts lies in the fact that you get the experience one on one. But competitive doesn’t translate well to someone with the intent to do harm. You have the confidence but when someone rips you nuts off, or bites chunks of flesh. You are not ready for that.
You want to learn to fight, you have to fight. Spot on.
What happens if you don't want to fight, but the other person does?
I think the main reason any "style" could fail... is if there is no "REAL FULL CONTACT SPARRING"......that is the most important part of training...If anyone plans to take part in or establish any kind of martial art real Full contact sparring is essential.
not necessarily "full contact" is required just resistance
@@azmer41 No. You need full contact sparring to test the efficacy of any "style." People dont just resist, they attack as well.
@@hortinus full contact sparring is a fight lol not training
Not even the Thai boxers go full contact in sparring.
@@hortinus not necessarily. In my style using full contact would be deadly for my training partner. We train almost like in real life situation but not at 100% if that makes sense.
I prefer Judo and Karate. Learn 10 ways in, 50 ways out, and have fun with training with live resistance.
And spend more time on your feet than on the ground is a good thing in self defense.
Karate sucks, no punches to the face lol... imo muay thai and jiu jitsu are the most dominant, a good boxer can slip and counter too. But muay thai and bjj is basically mma, which is the best form of combat:)
Ian Sinclair
The form I’m learning has us work to get the other person on the ground
Almatry 11
That’s why the form I’m learning isn’t a sport variant. We allow knocks to the head while sparing so we can practice head blocks
@@abdullaal-matri5185 try Goju-Ryu Karate, it features live resistance sparring, punches to head, knees, elbows, even some throws
I'm not a martial arts practitioner by any means (I'm too overweight to even think of it), but I study religions, including Eastern ones, and what Morihei Ueshiba talked about seems to me to be pretty straightforward, but the person listening would have to have the proper background, which I imagine most of his students lacked. To sum it up very roughly:
a) There are three broad kinds of martial arts: combat, sport, and spiritual. Someone who is very physically active usually begins practicing one for combat or sport purposes, and after a long time may end up interested into the spiritual aspects of the thing. A few approach it from the other angle, going straight for a spiritual one and then, maybe, getting interested in one or both of the other two aspects. But rarely a single martial art will have the three aspects.
b) Shinto spiritual practices are by nature very physically oriented. Esoteric Shinto meditation (a.k.a chinkon), for example, isn't about sitting down, eyes half-closed, thinking. Rather, it's about every day to wear but a loincloth and six in the morning entering a half-frozen waterfall, stream or lake (or, for city dwellers, a cold shower, in Winter, with heating turned off) and moving VERY intensely in predetermined ways so as not to die from hypothermia but also get one's spirit (and four souls) activated. Do it right and you have a good shot at becoming a divine spirit (kami), usually after you die but sometimes even while still alive.
c) Morihei Ueshiba began in the combat ways, then became spiritual. He also was a very devout Shintoist. So, it seems clear to me he modeled his own style on chinkon, as a complement and superset of it. If that's the case, the idea isn't bringing peace by means of using Aikido as a combat technique, but as a path towards "kamification". The students who get it, and arrive at the end goal, become divine spirits themselves, and *then* they can properly bring about world peace by means not of Aikido practice itself, but by using what they presumably achieve after achieving kaminess.
That's my reading of it. So it makes sense that those who're interested in combat and/or sport will find it lacking, or even, if one's an Atheist or just non-religious, nonsensical. On the flip-side, for those interested in a martial art as a spiritual path, a purely combat or sports oriented art would equally feel lacking, as it feels devoid of content to them.
That's a very astute observation. Aikido to me, as a former student, turned out to be more like traditional Yoga than something like karate: It was a form of physical exercise that was designed to cultivate something on a deeper spiritual level. As apposed to being a straight fighting system.
It's actual fairly common for Westerners in particular to misunderstand Asian culture and martial arts though.
I would like to add that the misogi aspect (cleansing/purifiying) can be found in the techniques. Especially because these are the more inefficient ones concerning hurting the opponent (i.e. compared to the much bigger aikijujustsu curriculum) these techniques provide a narrow and difficult path to develope an effective but nonhurting execution which is conducive for everybody involved. An upheld intention of the attacker is therefore crucial for the person executing a technique (defender) to do the polishing/cleansing/purifying step by step.
Aikido is rod fishing, while MMA is net fishing. The first method is learning to harmonize with your opponent, while the second method is to overwhelm with any means necessary. Once you understand that the purpose of training is different, you won't compare them to each other anymore. You will simply practice according to what you are looking for.
czcams.com/video/Zq008eKG_sI/video.html
I keep trying to tell this to my friends, who are interested in aikido, and they wont listen. "They'll make it work" they say
Everyone I've seen trying to practically apply aikido ends up blending it with other things. There are useful bits in it, but from many people's experience, in the end, if your goal is actually practical self defense, you'll end up using 2% aikido and 98% other things you've trained.
I would add something. O'sensei actually said in his memoirs that aikido has no form and will continue to develop. In a sense as long you believe in the 'not harming' it is still aikido. Wheter you use the technique that aikido teachers teach you or not. It doesnt really matter.
You can definitely apply Aikido and Wing Chun in fights...... if you have a background in an actual fighting system first. There's a guy at my MMA gym with primary backgrounds in BJJ and Dutch Kickboxing who pulled off an aikido move on one of the guys in a live round. We didn't see it coming, and when we asked him about it, he was pretty adamant that the only reason he pulled it off is because of his BJJ and a bit of Judo that he learned.
I'm primarily a striker and I feel that way with Capoeira. There's a lot of cool things that you can adopt from Capoeira, but I don't think I would ever be able to pull any of those things off without my Muay Thai training.
"you don't know the style i train."
It depends on what people mean by "works". I've seen Aikido used IRL by a bouncer in the bar I used to work at and in some videos online.
I've seen many more examples of people trying to fight someone with Aikido and getting their asses kicked.
Aikido is useless in a fight situation. Be that in an MMA or combat sport type fight, or an altercation out in the world. Once punches/kicks/takedowns start flying, Aikido is useless.
That said, Aikido may have some utility in the _preemptive_ stage of an altercation. When it's just verbal, it hasn't turned in to a fight yet. I've seen people use Aikido to restrain someone who was waving their finger in someone's face while mouthing off. I've seen some blindside a drunk at the bar who was harrassing a barmaid and put him in a wristlock before be knew what was happening.
Now, most martial arts can be used preemptively I suppose. And there are some like Boxing or Judo that don't have the learning curve of Aikido. So, I would summarise Aikido as something that has a niche use in the preemptive stages of an altercation, but still requires a high level of skill and a long time of training to use in such limited circumstances.
Aikido is the vegan version of Martial Arts
All martial arts are vegan. At least I don't know of any martial arts that violently abuse animals.
@@Svetty00 Their both great in a wrap, so hell yes.
You should interview Ellis Amdur. Like...you NEED to talk to Ellis Amdur, partly because he can relate to you (with his problems with the dojo culture) but partly because he's lightyears more informed about Aikido and other arts. Maybe even work with him a bit. Could provide some clarification.
You have really made a lot of thinking and researches about this subject, and you even talked to a friend of the founder. That is why I value your opinion on this matter more than the opinion of many other people. You have went through a lot, thanks for sharing, you re making a difference I think.
Great journey! keep posting reality!
🙏
Hm... I don't know if I can agree. Well, first and foremost: I do believe that it does depend on where you learn Aikido and who teaches you. No resistance? In my dojo, the experienced Aikidoka will not budge if you do it wrong. We were even told not to go down automatically, but only if the uke makes us go down (well, the success of that of course depends on each person…). It's not always only choreography. Not when two experienced Aikidokas go seriously at each other. How can it even be choreographed if the attacker won't even know what technique the defender will use? And I think the reason why there might often times be no resistance is 1. so that people can actually practice the movements and 2. because we don't wanna hurt each other. And since not everyone is big and buff, Aikidokas will be careful with each other. Also, the philosophy of Aikido is not to get into a fight in the first place. While we don't advocate violence, I never heard any of the teachers in my dojo claim you shouldn't defend yourself if necessary. Aikido is non-competitive. There are people who practice it for recreational reasons. And while there are a few techniques that would work well in self-defense, self-defense isn't its primary goal (I also never heard anyone in my dojo claim that). Here's a question: Does it need to be competitive? No. People looking for competition or self defense (Krav Maga anyone?) have enough other options. I think Aikido is more like Qi Gong or Tai Chi. Are those competitive? They're not. Don't need to be. Another thing that's perhaps is not in Aikido's favor is that it takes so darn long to truly master… in our dojo, we say, as a white belt you learn the movements. As a black belt, you do the rest, the refinement.
This just a view from my point. As I said: I think it always depends. On where you learn it. Who teaches it and what exactly he teaches. And what you yourself expect from Aikido. What parts you can take away for yourself. Perhaps many people approach it with the wrong expectation. But I think comparing it to Tai Chi or Qi Gong instead of, say, Muay Thai, Karate etc., is not a bad idea. The last thing I wanna say is: Aikido does have some things it can give to a fighter. The essence of Aikido is taking an opponents energy and diverting it or reverting it back against him (basically using physics). And when a master does it, and correctly - you're going to fly. Even better: If you manage to take other people's negative energies in everyday life and divert them, you might end up a calmer and more relaxed person (though that's easier said than done.)
P.S.: I am really happy that you acknowledge how devastating some techniques could be. ;) And let's no Steven Seagals or any past stuff destroy the fun of Aikido. Because it has its good points too. And hey: Everyone has the martial art that suits him/her. Let's each one of us focus on those instead of the negatives of the others. Because they all have their good and their bad.
Aikido saved me from being mugged by 2 undesirables in NYC. I'm a 4th kyu in Aikido. So you understand: It takes 9 kyus (levels) to attain your first black belt. A 4th kyu is 4 levels away from black belt. I'm just a novice still.
I'm from the Jersey shore about an hour from New York City. I had to meet somebody around 9:00 p.m. in Manhattan for drinks. Long story short, two adult males approached me as I was walking. They told me to give them my wallet and watch. The one had a knife and the other didn't have anything showing. If they had a firearm they probably would have showed that instead of the knife so I knew that they most likely didn't have a gun on them. It all happened so fast as if I've known Aikido my entire life. I grabbed the wrist of the one guy that was holding the knife and I performed an upward palm strike to that scumbag's chin knocking him back on the ground. He was talking as I did it and it seems he bit his tongue really bad because there was blood everywhere. And the other one I brought down really quick with a move to where later I found out I had dislocated his shoulder.
The second scumbag ran away and while the first one was still on the ground. I got on top of him and put him in an arm lock to where I was in total control and could break his arm if I wanted. If he struggled it would only cause him immense pain so he just laid there as I had him in the lock.
There were two people as witnesses and I asked them to call the police who came in like 3 minutes because they were actually right around the corner walking towards us.
The reason why I fought instead of giving them my wallet and my watch is because even if I had given them what they wanted they still could have hurt me for thrills. There's a lot of sick/sadistic people out there who get enjoyment out of hurting others.
I didn't even have to think about what to do it just happened so naturally and so quick. It's like my sensei was inside me and just took over. Now I'm not a fighter whatsoever and would rather walk or run away from people like this but they were blocking me and I had nowhere to go and I knew I had to strike first and as hard as I could to avoid injury or worse. It was a very scary situation that I was never in before but thank God I have been going to Aikido classes for the past 2 years to where I knew how to defend myself it seems more than the average person on the street.
Aikido be like: You can be a body builder without lifting heavy weights
Calisthenics?
@@gxtmfa Unlike Aikido, you can get amazing results in 2 years via Calisthenics.
@@gxtmfa Show me a calisthenic bodybuilder lol
genetics
@@Fredjo Austin Dunham
Aikido was never meant to be a combat fighting art, but mind body training for self defense. No trained fighter would give you their balance. I Managed the NY Aikikai in the 1980's
Every martial art stresses mind body training. Even "fighting" arts.
Learning martial arts are basically learning how to fight effectively. Modern Aikido doesn't work at all, therefore it failed as a martial arts. There's no martial in it, only art because the katas actually very beautiful to look at
@@johnfredrickson7215 Yeah but at least Aikido has actual breathing and postural exercises that work on the mental side.
Many other martial arts give lip service to the mind body connection. Punching or kicking the air for some Kata or poomse isn't "meditation" or doesn't unlock some mystical powers deep within us. It's just superficial nonsense some people buy in to for the most part.
Hu Mann Your comment is a perfect example of Aikidoka professing superiority over other disciplines with absolutely no basis in fact and avoidance of pressure testing.
You mentioned that top level Ueshiba students had other martial arts background. That's not coincide but consistent pattern. The reasons why it happens lies in different planes and to simply I may say that the one of the most important reasons is difference between modern Aikido and old Daito-ryu methodology. Daito-ryu has three simple to understanding ways to perform techniques. The first one is jujutsu. It gives you a clue how to attack joints and drop opponent down by attacking the joints. The second one is aikijujutsu which very simplified means 'jujutsu moderated by aiki'. So you use your aiki to take advantage and finish with your jujutsu techniques. The third one is aikinojutsu or you may say 'pure aiki'. For that one you use your aiki to lock opponent joints and drop him down.
Hard to swallow pill of Aikido is that the most of Ueshiba teaching that preserved in terms of Daito-ryu are aikijujutsu and aikinojutsu. Most of jujutsu that Ueshiba performed had been abandoned. So it's not too complex to understand that students that had already experience in some martial arts (may threaten as jujutsu way) learned aiki thru practice aikijujutsu and aikinojutsu and then moderate own techniques by this skill.
For zero-level practitioner modern Aikido do not affords actually basics - jujutsu way. So attempts to get aiki thru this kind of practice looks like colossus with feet of clay. Practitioner may get aiki for some reason but don't have jujutsu basics to use advantage that aiki offers.
I heard rumors that some Aikido teachers start from jujutsu way and do not teach aiki at the beginning. It that case problem still exists 'cause forms that they teach copying from Ueshiba aikijujutsu understanding and can't be done without aiki moderation.
I once tried to stop a drunken friend from fighting someone else by restraining him in a way that doesn’t hurt him. The stupid bastard turned his fists on me. Lesson learned: If one guy is trying to hurt you and you are trying your best not to hurt him, you are cruising for an ass-kicking!
If you don’t wanna fight, don’t. If you have to, go all in. A half-assed effort may be more “noble” in theory, but it will guarantee you’ll get a free ride on an ambulance!
Well, knowing how expensive it is, free ride on ambulance sounds kinda tempting. :D
Sampo Kemppainen 😂
Good point!
The problem there is that you were trying to restrain a friend and not hurt him, but he was willing to hurt you. Then there's the potential problem of his opponent coming into the picture if you did manage to restrain him. That situation is a losing proposition any way you look at it.
raksh9 i fully agree with you there.
True. The only advantage of Aikido that I can think of is that Aikido has perhaps the most comprehensive list of ukemis
Hello there! I've discovered your channel this week, the content is very insightful and awesome, I've studied Aikido a long time ago and this year some ninjutsu and currently naginata (via zoom due to the pandemic). I'm currently without any dojo and trying to find a new path or retake the Aikido one, it is kinda the right budo for me but I admit and agree on its lacks.
Remembering the training I had and crossing it with your experience and videos I've come to realize I had a very good sensei, but that because he was not only aikidoka, he had studied also karate and other disciplines I don't remember right now, and also military instructor. But the point is his teaching kinda escaped what aikido was supposed to traditionally be, he had us sparring, he complemented with other martial arts, it was very practical in that regard always had us thinking in the street scenario but even then he used to told us that against a knife or a gun, without any room to avoid the situation we should value our lifes over our ego, or the wallet, or the cellphone. The most funny part was he was a sensei in Ki Aikido, the most chill Aikido branch.
TL;DR: My sensei used to complement aikido with other disciplines to give us a better base, what kinda proves the point Rokas makes.
aikido is for cultivating peace in your heart during combat-its that kind of martial art. Rokas Sensei is just confused.
Harmony techniques in combat is aikijujutsu...and it is a mix of strikes and throws from other arts like Muay Thai, karate kung fu , boxing.
in combat there is no fix set of techniques but only what is most effective for specific moment.
dont get confused like the owner of video, do aikido training again, as well as as other arts...dont get stuck in one, aikido doesnt prohibit other martial arts (we have same philosophy with your sensei, i do boxing and aikido on different days)
@@leusmaximusx By this point I forgot I commented here xDD Don't worry about the confusion part, I will get back to Aikido once the pandemic passes, in the meantime I search for dojos and continue naginata training :)
It takes both sides to want peace, to have peace. But human nature is to fight, just as much. So, peace is not always possible.
I think O Sensei is a bad example for modern aikidoka. He was a tough guy, physically fit and took many challenges from other martial artists. Modern Aikido is only his spiritual and peaceful vision at the end of his long martial arts journey.
He was used to train with martial arts masters, which were obviously as fit and badass as him.
Most aikidokas today are the absolute opposite
Exactly. Ueshiba himself didn't learn Aikido. He learnt Daito Ryu from Sōkaku, who himself was by all accounts a bonafide bad ass ( lifetime training martial arts, son of an actual Samurai and Sumo wrestler, regularly travelled Japan to engage in challenge fights).
Usehiba also trained with a lot of talented martial artists. Guys who were ex Sumo wrestlers or high ranking Judoka or had a lot of study in Koryu. He was also a professional martial artist who trained most of the week.
All that is far from the what the standard Aikido practioner does. Like you say, Ueshiba is not a good example of the typical Aikido practioner.
Back in the 90s i trained in Jujitsu (under a sensei associated with the American Jujitsu Association) and got my 3rd kyu after about 4 years (a brown belt under this system). I quit when I went to Grad school. And while we learned punches and kicks, if you see it performed it looks like a dirty version of Aikido. Like Aikido it lacks pressure testing (but not as much as Aikido). And while it didn't have the pacifistic philosophy of the akido, there was an emphasis on using leverage, leverage, and the attacker's force, the instruction essentially taught that strength was unimportant.
Looking back, there were certain realities about strength that I didn't realize.
1) One's Strength is important. It certainly recognizes the strength of the opponent (since you are using the strength against the opponent/attacker) However, philosophically, it does not see any role of strength on the martial art.
2) If you consistently practiced, part of the reason why your technique worked and improved was because you developed functional strength as you trained. All those kicks, the grappling, the throws you gave, the falls you experienced, those resulted in a gradual increase of strength.
3) It is possible to specifically train for functional strength. For example, kettlebells and macebells can increase all sort of muscles, including your arms, shoulders, and grip strength. I think in 2020 this is increasingly recognized, but in the 90s, I don' tthink functional strength training was respected.
4) Sometimes the reason why a technique did not work was due to a lack of strength, not lack of skill.
At any rate, I think you are correct that a big flaw in Akido training is the lack of "pressure testing." However, I am willing to bet, that that another flaw, possibly a bigger flaw, is simply its mistaken view of flow. It emphasizes flow so much that it inevitable results in a fighting where use of strength is seen as incorrect, or wrong. While I think two things being equal, the person who need less strength to perform his/her techniques is probably the better martial artist, strength does play a role, and being able to use it is something that one should learn as part of their training. But here is the rub, it is one thing to develop efficient technique and showing efficient use of force. It is quite another thing try to push an ideal of the performance of a technique without the use of strength. Its contradictory, its confusing, and it can hold people back and put them at risk.
If you haven't, check out the works of Ellis Amdur. Amazing amazing writings. Put simply - Ueshiba was an amazing martial artist. He had something special. The majority of his students did not. Some did, but in different ways. Amdur does a great job of trying to figure out why, and what's left.
That being said, I know aikidoka that are firebreathing-dragons whom I would walk down any back-alley with. To quote one famous aikidoka when asked (basically) "Why doesn't aikido work?", he responded. "Aikido works. YOUR aikido may not work. Please don't confuse the two."
I think most small joint techniques are descended from feudal law enforcement techniques, and meant to be applied to semi-complaint opponents in the first place. Trying to apply them to "fighting", much less to self defense encounters is crazy. There are other parts of Aikido that can be made effective, irimi nage and some of the footwork and pivoting movements are demonstrably practical if approached that way.
I think part of the confusion of the "peacefulness" of Aikido, confuses the classical definition of peace: a state of order and justice, versus the hippie definition peace: non-violence. Morihei Ueshiba definitely used the classical definition.
Ueshiba himself fought in WW2 so he understood the only way to shut down violence fast is to use violence. Something not alot of modern aikidoka understand
Why no one point out that aikido is weapon based. With weapons in the hand of one or the other it gives you that lever effect that makes aikido technics relevant. Technics are being demonstrated empty-handed, theoretically feasible, but a handicap in real life situation.
And yes, « we ll make it work » attitude is the right mindset for any martial art. Giving up, is no defeat for an art, but for the artist.
I am on board with that mission! And you're right, that's completely what O-Sensei was trying to do. I don't think he really cared whether or not Aikido was effective in a fight. And I think you're right that the current Shihans like Yamada were sent out into the world as young men with a good grasp of technique but not necessarily a real understanding of the core mission or how to accomplish it.
To be honest, given all that I'm amazed at how well it's worked for me and my training partners. I've been practicing for over 20 years now and the Aikido philosophy makes up a great part of who I am and how I relate to others. I think this is the only place where we disagree; in my experience just practicing the techniques (with a little bit of the philosophy explained) can change a person and help them grow into a badass. Not a badass who wins fights, but a powerful, moral person who knows how to think about conflict in a healthy way. It's not perfect by any means, but as systems for personal growth go I think it's better than many others.
The primary reason I train is to give and receive love. At this point the love and joy I share with my training partners is electric and overwhelming. I think that's one of the primary things the practice has to offer; that boundless joyful loving feeling shows that you're connected to another person in a very powerful and rewarding way, and that connection can be used to resolve conflicts of many kinds. Not so much the street violence kind, but certainly the more run-of-the mill conflict we all deal with from day to day. I sometimes get that feeling when I train BJJ, but nowhere near as often. This whole "exchange" has inspired me to get back to seeking that feeling deliberately during my BJJ training, so thank you.
I agree that Aikido is doing an inconsistent job of delivering that message and helping people reach that goal, but I don't think it's doing a terrible job. BJJ does that job too. I don't know if it does it better or worse really, I think it's close. But I do know that not everyone can bring themselves to get past some of the barriers to BJJ training, like the close contact and so on. I think a lot of those people could find their way up the mountain in an Aikido dojo. I think there is a place for both.
youre a true martial artist. constantly searching for truth. no bias. trial and error. love your channel mate. you added what was useful, rejected what was useless, and constantly adding on what is essentially yours../
You just said it all, it’s in the way you train it and the person, not always the Art, I know plenty of MMA fighter who can’t fight and have been learning it for a long time. We need to get away from ‘calling’ out the arts. Basically YOU do YOU, and I’ll DO Me .....we need to love each other’s arts you can learn from each other. ..
MMA fighter who can't fight? What in the blue hell are you talking about?
100% of pure traditional Aikidoka can't fight for crap. That's a fact.
Ismail Is The Name nothing but punching bags honestly.
Aikido is dance, not a martial art. This is what people need to understand. It's like capoeira without the danger of kicking someone in the face.
Thank you lol
There was this television show, "Stan Lee's superhumans" that showcased people with extraordinary abilities. In it this one man had a reaction speed so fast that he could slice bullets in half when they shot at him in the show. I think it's possible that Akido's founder had a similar ability because in order to do a lot of the techniques you would just about have to know exactly what your opponent is going to do.
Remember yours is a MA journey. I feel like you’ve stagnated. Yes we know Aikido have deficiencies as a MA, and yes bjj is very effective (however the sport area starting to dominate is making it less so). So would be great to see how you continue to evolve rather than the ‘Aikido is bad/bjj better’ when that door was closed long ago....
This is just a reflection in order to summarize and reflect in order to draw inspiration to move forward. If you're interested in my progression you can check my new channel "The Journey" where I explore where I should evolve into, currently by digesting what happened up until now. It's true that at the moment I talk more about the past, but that's in order to settle it and to move forward :)
Yep... Sport BJJ need to adapt in MMA. There is no way Sport Judo and Sport BJJ just fit right there in MMA not with modification in training regime.
Do you always tell people what "journey" are they on and to stop talking about anything else? What kind of a narcissistic freak does that. If you're triggered by reality that's your own battle to win, whining about someone else's youtube channel won't help you.
He needs those aikido troll views. lol.
It’s called an opinion Paul. And unlike your ❄️❄️ triggered self I’m sure Rokus is fine with my constructive criticism. Mainly because I’ve been watching this channel from day one and just felt he had left Aikido with ‘my relationship to Aikido now’ video a year ago. But he obviously spent decades in Aikido so it’s tough to make a 100% break. I LOVED his chatting with other MA masters rather than a ‘will Aikido work’ segments. I look forward to seeing where he goes from here....
I think it all goes down to belief system. As Matt Thornton also told me in an interview on my channel, the only reason why "fantasy based martial arts" exist is the same reason why astrology still exists nowaday. There is no way we can overcome this only by logical thinking, aikido is mythical, esoteric, historical, ... etc and a lot of people love that.
Exactly. I remember meeting bio energy therapists in my dojo. Those people believed all kinds of weird shit. Funny thing is that after 25 years now they are all 3rd Dan and still can’t fight.
I as a former practicioner had same opinion as you but... I changed my mind recently after listening to what Edward Norton said about aikido on JRE. It inspired me to think, and suddenly I saw the possibility that Morihei Ueshiba had actually achieved the state where his aikido would work the way as it is presented - and he really mastered it - and was able to face real adversity in aikido way with real strength. Remember he fought in wars, he wasn't a naive student who joins aikido because he's afraid of sparring. And as he achieved the mastery, out of the strength, not out of weakness and fear, he chose this way: the aiki way. But it's very likely that no one of his students were able to achieve this state, where their aikido would be able to face real adversity... and they only took the peace part and the legacy of his philosophy; then out of misunderstanding, all these problems you decribe creeped in. Give it benefit of the doubt. I think this is very likely. The same happened to legacy of Jesus, Buddha, and many others. Their legacy got misinterpretted because no one was great enough to pass it on...
Yes it's true O'Sensei went through some fire to develop Aikido, but at some point he was no longer challenged. Sure there are stories of "challenges", but eventually he becomes an "untouchable". No one was going to offer a true challenge to him out of reverence. Same thing for modern Aikido teachers. They rely so much on reverence and faithful subservient students that their technique is truly tested. How many times have we had a turn as uke and had an instructor or Sr. student throw or lock too hard just to appear superior and you knowing perfectly well that if you were free to be non-compliant you'd easily best them. Terrible thinking as a student, but I can't help to think this when abused by a Sr.
Aikido does help people that have zero fitness, coordination and and mostly zero confidence and maybe even fear to try a real martial art. From there you can continue with something more practical like you did. So for me Aikido has the most important place from all martial arts - giving a hand to the weak and showing them the way to strength and confidence in themselves. Besides, the normal people don't want to have troubles with real martial arts fighters so they don't need to compare themselves with them.
Too much attention is paid to techniques when trying to understand O sensei’s message. In other martial arts techniques serve to be a means to an end, you are compelling an opponent to yield to your will through force. That end is limited by the martial artist’s own judgment which may be guided by a refined sense of truth or corrupted by an allure of power. Aikido’s techniques serve as a means to a beginning, to create something higher from the conflict. The act of Aikido is an act of training our ability to listen fearlessly to the moment with our whole being to find harmony from chaos while doing our best to protect our partner by compelling them to do the same.
People that are trying to hurt you are not your partner
Spare us the TL;DR and show us a video where you use aikido effectively in a real fight, everything else is just talk.
I think aikido, just like taichi, was meant as the NEXT LEVEL for accomplished martial artists, but not meant to be an independant art on their own.
Bruh its trash for fighting. Its barely the tutorial, let alone the "next" level.
While I agree with you from aikidoka pov, it is effective as long as you practice feeling for the timing point of attack. Also not everyone who trained would understand what Ueshiba did in his training/teaching.
as someone who took up kickboxing tries to add all the martial arts I come across, aikido is kinda good for parrying, position changing, and rolling with the punches
@ a lot has to do with the relationship between the attacker and attacked.. where they are just falling this way or that way because that is what they are meant to do it has nothing to do with reality.. but it's not designed for a sparring bout like how he is trying to assess it, it's meant for a situation where you are attacked by someone probably bigger and stronger, and you have to act right in one moment. Not to "fight" but to immobilise them quickly before you get your ass kicked.
Hi Rokas. I'm Bill. I used to subscribe to your channel but I got a negative vibe and unsubscribed. Still, I check in on you occasionally because it seemed to me that you were struggling on your path. Not a big on commenting but this video kinda' annoyed me. I don't contest or discount your opinions, your take-aways, but I suggest to you that it is more you then Akido. Yeah, harsh, I know. I say this because I was trained in a rural tradition of karate as a classically hard or external style that has evolved through time and experience into a thoroughly soft or internal style probably more akin to Akido then karate anymore. Point being: if you truly understand your discipline you have the ability to apply it in any manner you choose. I believe it is a consequence of the strictures/dogmas taught in some schools that inhibits students from transcending their teaching. Luck on your journey. Peace.
The best video on Aikido I've seen so far.
I still think that it is a good form of training after certain age because it is less traumatic and more harmonious.
It is also a good introduction into martial arts on condition that the person switches to Judo or a competitive style of Karate after getting into shape.
Regarding BJJ, it is the best both for competition and safety among competitive martial arts. But it prepares only partially for "street situations". But this is a different topic.
The only thing you said that is close to informed is that, ‘violence is always necessary’. You need to actually train with real Aikidoka, not the wishy -washy stuff you did. Train with Gozo Shioda Sensei’s (student of O-Sensei) last uchi deshi Mori Michiharu Shihan. You really don’t know anything about real Aikido - not the false stuff they had been westernised.
Aikido Yoshinkan Sunshine Coast I wonder what kind of aikido he trained. Also he didn’t even try to strike the mma guy in that other video.
I think, dear , you are wrong not aikido, Aikido is what it is, does not offer make of you a winner of trophies, the battle is inner against yourself, trying to do the best with you have, no comparisons, no contest, no ego, no be victorious over other, if you need recognizition then Aikido is not for you, i meet powerful japanese senseis ables to do anything with their techniques, after many years of practice obviously, you are very young yet, with doubts and out of focus. Aikido offers harmony and you haven,'t.
I think Aikido is in the same situation as Taiji Quan. They are designed for people who already know how to fight, or learn to fight aside or even don't want to fight at all. They have their roots in fighting but their purpose is different. They are moving philosophy. Like a flower take it's roots in dirt, those arts take their roots in violence and like the root of the flower they transform into something of beauty. It's pointless to try to retroingineer it back into fighting. The purpose is to transcend yourself in the practice. To learn about yourself. To make art.
Exactly my thoughts, recently I started to train bjj and I find it very close to aiki element of Ueshiba.
Same thing seems to have happened to Bujinkan.
Bujinkan, aikido, wingchun. Each of them are based in speculation rather than practical application.
@@sampokemppainen3041 Thing is Usehiba's teacher Takeda was a bonafide fighter by most accounts. He learned Koryu but his dad was also a Samurai and Sumo wrestler. He travelled Japan and engaged in challenge matches (actual fights). He was a fighter.
Ueshiba fell in with a spiritual leader (Deguchi) who for political reasons encouraged Ueshiba to abandon Takeda and make his own martial art, which was about forwarding a spiritual system (and covertly a political ideology).
The contrast is marked: you had someone who was a martial artist and a fighter. You had another guy who changed his martial art not to make it a better fighting system, but to forward a religious/political ideology.based on the motivations to change it, it's little wonder Aikido doesn't function well as a fighting system.
@@humann5682 in other words, aikido is a cult
It’s a gentle art that’s too dangerous to spar/compete with. Brilliant
yes! aikido, as an art, is awesome. but for fighting it should be modified, evolved for real situations. anyway, it can be used as it is in some situations. Great content as always!
🙏
As Rokas already explained: he tried to evolve Aikido and failed. And in my opinion he did so because its impossible to make Aikido effective. And in my opinion there is no self defense situation that can be expected often in streetfights and for which Aikido has a reliable answer for. There are some wristlocks that would work reliable. But you will have to get into a lot of streetfights until you will get into a situation that allows you to use such a technique.
(I have a masters in sport and lifelong experiences in eastern and western martial arts.)
scheisstag dude you explained this perfectly, I wanted to respond but couldn’t find the right words. I have a black belt in Taekwondo and I’m studying Kyokushin and Muay Thai at the moment, I spent a few weeks doing an aikido class with my instructor and just could never understand how you could use that for a fight. Considering our tang soo do sparring was mma rules.
The only way to evolve Aikido is to just straight up remove it's philosophy of "not hurting your opponent" and re apply techniques that are meant to hurt other people
@@jaketheasianguy3307 But wouldnt it be MMA in hakamas than, if you remove all the non working techniques and replace them with working ones?
Rokas, i want to ask you something. Is it possible for us to think that aikido is just a traditional japanese body combat excercise? Beacause if we look to its phillosphy of non fighting, avoiding fighting, make peace and harmony, no resistent in training, and a soft technique that made it not effective in fighting. I dont think osensei made this martiar art for fighting or self defense situation in the first place
Morihei Ueshiba presented Robert Nadeau with a scroll that translates as "Do the aikido that cannot be seen with the human eye". Sounds familiar??? Rickson Gracie speaks of "invisible jiu jitsu" all the time.
Honestly, I kind of don't get why you still bash on Aikido. Aikido works (who would've thought?). Just not when used by aikidokas. I've seen and used Aikido throws in Sambo and Judo. There are throws from Aikido in Sumo, and, again, they work. Google "обратная спина самбо" or "john wick throw" and you will see a lot of similarities to Koshi Nage. Granted, they are not similar 100%, but the principle is the same and one can be easily transformed to other.
In fact, I don't even get why you are so opposed to "traditional" martial arts. They are awesome and they should be studied by every martial artist. My main arts are Muay Thai, Sanda, Kyokushin, Judo, Sambo and occasional freestyle wrestling in summer, but I studied many other arts as well. Yoshinkan while recovering from neck injury, Uechi-ryu because it was close to university and I had a poor time table with hours between studies, Goju-ryu to link my striking and grappling. Sometimes I just leave my regular gyms to go gain some new perspective. Arts like Aikido may not emphasize contact sparring and "realistic" scenarios, but they emphasize greatly on proper form and theory behind fighting. And it shows. When it comes to sparring, MMA guys who study for the same amount of time are kind of pathetic to look at. Easily defeated, no form, no understanding what they are doing, nothing. And everybody loves to spar with me. Because it is interesting for many reasons. One of them being a lot of strange and unusual techniques I extracted from forms and kata. And I had a lot of instances of putting someone who tried to show that Karate or whatever doesn't work in place. It works. You just have to know how it is used.
Full-contact arts are just plain scary. My girlfriend wanted to train with me, she just didn't want to be slammed to the ground a couple of times in a row. So we did Taijiquan and Shaolin Kung Fu. And she loved it. We broke apart a long time ago, but she still trains and will try out her first full contact art next month. That is a win in my book. Not everybody needs to fight. Some people just want to be like Bruce Lee or whatever.
For people who are so into "tradition" you sure as heck know nothing about history of your arts. I believe, it was Shioda, who said that Aikido is "60% strikes". And it is. You will not get that lock on someone who stands straight. Thats what kuzushi is for. You unbalance with strike, you break arm with Kote Gaeshi, which is not even a throw.
I am glad you undertook your journey. We all did at some points in life. I hope you will find your way. Would be interesting to see you returning to Aikido with knowledge on how to fight. Because it was never intended for beginners. And thats why a lot of moves are so wide and grand. They are to demonstrate a principle. Not to be used "as is"
Wish you luck)
I truly respect your sacrifice. It would be VERY hard to give up on something because you recognize the truth. Many people CAN'T let go. I love watching aikido, but to say that it is anything more than a dance is lying to yourself.
what is the point of the activity? to kill each other? score points? I think the rules define what is effective and what is not.
Well, this time I need to point you something Rokas: choking out the guy is not the best way to control an angry person you don't want to hurt or kill. I train cops and train with them and thats a recurrent issue. Here in Brazil, every few days we have news about a policeman or a bouncer that choked someone and acidentally killed the guy, for example this one last year: czcams.com/video/miqBnlaao0Y/video.html
Jiu jitsu have a lot of better options if you can go for the full commitment, like a simple armlock our a kimura. And if don't have the numeric superiority to commit yourself on the ground or if you are not in a safe area, I would go with any stand up techinique like aikido kotegaeshi or even a few punches. If you google for it you'll find hundreds of acidental kills by choking, it is definately not the same thing of training.
And like always, GREAT content and a very important discussion. TY
It's strictly defensive, but some of the defensive styles that you learn can be used in any other fighting form. Cross training Aikido with a fighting form that is similar in defensive techniques can be effective like karate. Aikido delivers what's it's intended to deliver and that's defense against the bigger stronger more aggressive opponent
Hey, hey, I did not hurt them, they hurt themselves. I used Aikido to great effect on the Door in Logan, Qld. I not only restored peace, but put the fear of the unknown in any witness(let them tell the others, beware of him!!! Got no idea what he does, but it's something bad"). It kept the peace on all my shifts. No one was game, I am 5.8ft 78kg(172 pounds). Aikido works. If they up the ante, so do I! I cannot help if they run at me and hit a wall!
"I think" "I've heard" "I believe" "Basically you could look at it that way." All of your examples are about people who abandoned the philosophy and used techniques from Aikido to supplement their different styles. That does not mean the philosophy has failed. Besides the spiritual is a component of nearly all eastern martial arts. The notion of being in harmony with the life force and blending with the attacking energy to subdue it does not mean no harm will come to the attacker. It might need to go to the point of killing to defend yourself. This is why there are many deadly techniques. The peace you maintain is your own.
The story of Koichi Tohei and the western wrestler is from the "Rendevous with Adventure" short film; you can find it here on CZcams. Basic gist of the film is two Americans go to Japan for some adventure, go to the opening of the Tokyo TV transmitter (the one that is a replica of the Eiffel Tower), then go train in Aikido under Ō-Sensei and his assistants, with the two Americans looking like the completely clueless noobs they are at the beginning, and slowly improving.
During their training, they film a "challenge" of western wrestling vs. aikido. The challenge was played up for the film: Ō-Sensei ordered Tohei not to hurt the guy, and the director also wanted Tohei to give a little at first so the star of the film wouldn't look like a total chump. Tohei plays around at first, but then his hakama gets ripped and he drops the wrestler.
What happens if try your first Wing Chun Or Taekwondo class soon in upcoming video, What, Where & When ever do you like to prefer.
What i would say is that in aikido you have to kind of retrain your brain in terms of the natural instinct to block. I think experienced aikidoka would understand that for it to work, you have to have the confidence to recieve an attack, blend with it, and neutralise. So for a realistic defence you would occasionaly have to use a strike or at least threaten a strike before doing a technique. Also i think you have to train regularly, as there is definately a 'feel' that you only get through training. And i suppose you cant really compare it to other martial arts, as its essentially purely based on defence. Its highly unlikely that on the street you will come up against an aggressive bjj practitioner. Ive always thought of it as something you dont brag about, but when you need to, and are able, things like sankyo or kote gaeshi can really immobilise an attacker, to the point that they are completely at your mercy. Aikido is a gentle art, but in a real street situation those big beautiful sweeping moves u see in dojos get concentrated down and sped up. Thats when u see how painful those techniques can be. Its not an art where u stand in a ring and 'fight' someone. Its knowledge that gives you a calm confidence in a real attack, but you have to be realistic too, chances are you would have to strike, but then you have the technique to end the attack quickly through wristlocks etc.
I'm glad you mention Shihonage I find the way aikido does that technique the "nice" way compared to Daito Ryu. If you look at the comparison, if you do Shihonage the real way the person is definitely going to the ER if not dead. I've felt both and I'll tell you the Daito way is so much tighter and has a way worse break fall at the higher level.
Why even mention aikido? seriously you've been disillusioned already as you said, At this point you look like you're ranting on aikido. You call it self journey but you keep looking back if aikido is so ineffective than stop using it and stop talking about it, I understand you feel like 20 years were wasted.you've spent like alot of videos saying aikido is crap we get it Aikido doesnt work for you and BJJ does! you said that like a million times. this video sounds like an advertisement for BJJ at the expense of Aikido, Move on Rokas, at this point your just Hating on Aikido. let it go and dont look back
I can sympathize with Rokas. I fell in love with Aikido early on. The beautiful techniques, the history, the philosophy. However, being interested on other martial arts as well, I couldn't help but compare, contrast and eventually test it. I found too many shortcomings when I ventured into "open mat" sparring, and extremely dissatisfied that no effort has been made by the Aikido community to address them. In fact too many Aikidoka shun challenges of any kind and always resort back to stock reply's of "going back to basics, train the fundamentals, trust the art, don't compete, only use the art if your life depends on it... blah, blah, blah". They will never actually put themselves into these challenges themselves. There is much in Aikido that actually does work as I've found in testing. This is why I can't give up on it entirely, and still keen on following people who are attempting to grow the art.
you'll never arrive to your destination if you keep looking back...@@johnfredrickson7215 if aikido no longer is effective for rokas,as i say stop using it move on find what is useful and discard what is not, no needed to bitch about it. if they keep doing it and it is wrong thats their loss not yours, they eventually realize it and correct it or they don't... thats how survival of the fittest works
You either have aiki, or you don't.
For real
Interesting that you mention Robert Nadeau. I remember talking to him nearly 50 years ago at one of the Bay Area schools.
Yeah but at the sametime...bjj is bloody expensive
I simply don't believe the stories about Ueshiba and his students being amazing fighters. I think what they did is very similar to what aikido is now. Ueshiba really started martial arts around 30 years old and studied a few months with Sokaku Takeda when he was at his house, and suddenly he would be a very skilled fighter? I'm very skeptical... Those stories sound like legends to me.
Ueshiba already got his background from military training, actually faced modern combat, sword art of Shinkage ryu and jiujitsu of Daito ryu. That makes a big difference between him and most aikido practitioners now. It only works for him because he understood the concept and cruel reality of combat, unlike his later students
@@jaketheasianguy3307 He did get some bayonet training when he was young in the military, but somehow I doubt that it made him the "amazing martial artist" that some people claim he was. Especially since he had a very strong inclination toward religion and mysticism. He practiced mountain ascetism way before he started daito-Ryu. The guy was a mystic, not a warrior.
Choking out someone and making them unconscious as the best way to minimise damage to an attacker - you think that is the the approach to self defense that has the least amount of risks to an attacker ? Choking someone brings about grave risks to the person being choked - reduction of oxygen to the brain for instance, potential for strokes and brain damage as well.
I find it mind blowing that someone spends so much time on this...1) check out Florian Dau's Flo Fight & Fitness channel, the video 'Aikido vs Aikijutsu und Gote Gaeshi wird gesperrt' where he explains the difference between Aikijutsu and what O Sensei turned into Aikido (CZcams has a translation function) 2) then to all the keyboard warriors out there, no, there was no UFC in medieval Japan 3) and when you check out the channel of Florian Dau, pay attention to his physical fitness in comparison to the fitness level of most Aikido, WT etc. practitioners.
Hold on....If you take the idea that you Manifest into your reality what you believe....then Aikido does work to bring the reflection of Peace into your life by cultivating the peace within your MIND.
I been thinking about getting into Aikido and, this is in spite of what you explained here. I believe it does have a positive aspect which is keep people healthy and in shape. Will I do Aikido to learn how to fight? No! But as a middle aged man with some physical issues I think Aikido will be something that would be diverse and dynamic enough to maintain and even improve my muscular skeletal structure and aid me with my mental focus.I have ADHD and I this could be part of my focus training. Just a thought.
You're not wrong! If you're not interested in learning how to fight Aikido can really help with all those things.
You could also learn yoga which helps.
Aikido is a bit more entertaining than yoga but you’ll meet a lot of weird people in both places anyway. Aikido is fun, just not a fighting system.
Aikido is the right thing for you. And it works as self defense. But not in the way rokas showed in his sparing with the mma guy. Nor in that situation.
the correct path in aikido is first learn to move then to atemi then techniques then being peaceful ,then studying other martial arts with the peaceful spirit ,then applying the kinesiology ,methodology and other principles you ve learned..in everyday life
i am going to the full vid. i will leave my comment there.
🙏👌
I remember one aikido teacher said if you want realism, go to war.
When ueshiba broke away from Takeda he went down a spiritual path that changed his whole outlook on life and so he changed his style and made it passive. If you read all the historic work of Stanley Prannin you'll get the full picture. If you want the combative go back to the roots of Takeda.
Have you tried Tomiki brand of Aikido? Also, why dont you create your own brand of Aikido?
Because learning how other style of martial arts work better than Aikido is a better solution than burry yourself deeper into it's hole, knowing modern Aikido itself only doesn't work at all
I accidently came across your videos, from watching Jesse aka the karate nerd. After binge watching quite a few trying to understand where you are coming from and the point you are trying to make (most of the time shaking my head and trying to refrain from commenting, i have commented twice). I have come to the conclusion that you are a seriously confused and passively angry individual, looking to blame aikido. It doesn't work in real life or the cage, it is not taught right, there is no pressure testing, etc etc. Now O'Sensei was a religious weirdo, Tohei sensie defeated the western wrestler not using aikido techniques, the philosophy fails, etc etc (how you conviniently leave out or ignore the full information or context, just to present aikido in a negative light). The way to subdue an attacker would be using bjj choke and philosophy because they can still attack you if their elbow or wrist is broken or some of aikidos techniques are deadly (before it was ineffective but now they are, how convinient). However the choke they pass out and somehow it is philososphically humane because you are not inflicting damage. Have you looked at the medical literature from choke holds - anoxic brain impairment, short term memory problems, association with stroke, convulsion (eeg waves match short episode epilepsy - yes you are killing brain cells), neck trauma (carotid dissection, etc). Hypocrite. On the teachings and philosophy, whilst learning bjj did your instructor teach the students resuscitation techniques prior to learning choke holds? From another video you have now lost passion for bjj and found passion for betterment work in the community and with children (admirable). However i wonder what angle you will find with this new passion in how aikido fails this as well. Grow up. There is hope for you, it was evident in your video where you sat down and had a chat with Jesse, i truly believe during this conversation with him and his opinion of martial arts you had a few light bulb moments.
I'm not sure what's the purpose of this video. Didn't you already quit Aikido? Just move on and let it go. We get it, Aikido sucks. To be honest I can only think is because this channel is stagnant and making content criticizing Aikido brings views.
I'm actually putting up content on my new channel :) If you'd check it out you could get a better understanding of why I'm touching this subject again. I'd also guess you didn't watch the full version till the end. This is just a preview
@@MartialArtsJourney While you have your reasons, I do share Luis point that there is enough Negative talk on Aikido..... while I am not trying to protect aikido, I do honestly think aikido has something to offer . Just like Shakespeare probably does not help most of us in our daily lives, they do enrich our culture as a whole. You probably would not criticize Shakespeare as useless, would you ?
@@MartialArtsJourney No I didn't go to the other channel and watch the longer video. Why would I? You posted it here so I watched this one. If you think what you say in this short version can be taken out of context then you shouldn't have posted it. The content of this video adds nothing to the conversation, except "oh, here is another video criticizing Aikido".
It's restrain bro not sustain.
this is your own opinion:: Aikido is taught differently in different places, anyway in Aikido the most important thing is to build your Warrier attitude not to have a fight with a drunk person in the street and break his arm.
I was a fighter before i learned Aikido i studied Tang Soo Do BaGua Zhang Yin Style i fell in love with aikido because of Randori
Just recreate that hell dojo environment then. I don't agree with complete pascifism. I don't agree with complete cooperation. I still see a benefit to training the art. In fact I love it and am very sad I can't train in it right now because of the coronavirus pandemic. I think the philosophy of aikido embraces self-improvement. It's about maturity of the mind and the spirit but you have to put the work in. You have to train with brutes and learn to handle different body types and intensities. This, I believe, truly forges your spirit as you adapt to multiple types of bodies and personalities. At the end of the day, anyone can train in Aikido, but not everyone is cut out for it. They must become it. Fail? Good! Keep going! Peak martial artists embody obsessive and undying passionate commitment. Then there are patterns you will notice among other arts. You have to just let go and not worry about you vs someone else. You can always keep refining yourself.
Aikido works. You can see that with tomiki aikido. Techniques with real resistance. How anyone can say it's useless is beyond me. I find this guy interesting. He is doing aikido good by pressure testing but at the same time it's down to the person not the art. No matter what this guy trains he doesn't have a violent streak in him and that's the problem not the art
hmm... acording to the book by Ueshiba (did I spell this right) there where broken hands and other injuries so aikido is not that peacefull even when performed by O sensei. Also the competition aspect (again according to the same book) as far as I remember was because competition in the ring does impose additional rules and limitations and false feeling of fair - while in real combat there is no such thing as fairness. Paradoxically lack of the competition did made the aikido practice feeling too safe and removed the resistance which leads to... bad aikido and fake feeling of it working when it would not.
This is how I understand the reasons for not softening aikido to a ring sport where - now there seem to be a lot of misconceptions in aikido even coming from some high level practitioners as all excersices and practice forms are not real aikido - aikido is to adapt and to harmonize with the opponent and not to perform an specific technique.
and even though performing technique without harming an opponent should be the ideal goal it is not the main point. But I also think it is valid point that to learn fighting or selfdefense one has to fight and practice selfdefense, one should practice aikido to learn aikido.
competition among friends is different of competing for pride or money or simply fighting for pride , money or hate. Defense is one thing and using violence to defend is one thing and not what many pseudo senseis of many arts teach. Trains hard, compete friendly, defend yourself without hate, use violence proportionally. The problem is not killing, the problem is hate. BJJ choking is violent if the teacher is not a peaceful man. Peace comes from the heart. Judo is superior. Senior Judo learning BJJ are more peaceful.
i am 54 and i love Aikido
Aiki-JuJutsu and Aikido were developed for unarmed defense against armed (swords & knives) attackers period. Expecting Aikido to be applicable to all situations is ludicrous. That being said, it has it's place. BJJ is not effective in the street because while you're passing your attacker's guard, someone else will simply punch or stab you in the neck. Practice whichever martial art you enjoy; there's always benefits.
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is the way
If a boxer never did any sparing or fighting against a live resisting opponent, will they be any good?
I've only heard of one Michael Yarde he's pretty good tbf, not sure if he'd be better with live sparring or not and he's super athletic so again hard to tell if his natural attributes carry him further despite not sparring.
Oh my no.
Aikido is the martial art for being peaceful while in combat..the techniques are to vehicle to see yourself discarding the will to destroy the other enemy...dont go for what Rokas Sensei said that to cultivate peace do brazilian jujitsu...that is incorrect and harmful.
Practice with intent to injure, all martial arts except aikido. dont do peaceful brazilian, peaceful muay thai, peaceful karate ...thats crap and will bring defeat at combat.
If you want the killer type of harmony techniques, do aikijujutsu where Osensei got his fight techniques + all other techniques to confuse the enemy. This is a proper way system of fighting or self defense.
Aikido philosophy did not fail to deliver to give peace in a practioners heart. dont look for effective fighting techniques in aikido. It is the art of peace.
I encourage all people to practice aikido so that peace will prevail on everyones lives.
"Everybody has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."
Mike Tyson
When you need to controll family member it is nit a good idea to stand and bang with them. Thats for different sittuation. But for me worked well to take them down to the ground, msintain wrist controll, knee on belly and get help from others to help with controll and then calm him down or take him home.
diversity of opinion does not change fundamental facts (laws). if one failed to achieve something, it's not fault of technique.
one who removes unnecessary parts of a tree to make a sculpture out of it gives him something out of shape. it is clear. if a master cannot make a chest out of stone, it is a guilty substance, but if someone who is not a master cannot make a chest out of wood, he is the culprit.
the inability to create something good breeds criticism:)
Your the one that has no clue you did not learn anything go back to the begining amtemi strikes properly done allows you to perform your technique he will be in a arrested position and he shouldent be able to move Osensei was taught by takeda sokaku these techniques were born out on the battlefeild many years
Ago stop putting bs in your way and get on with it
Everyone who's studied Aikido knows the history of the art. It's beat into you and usually covered in the first chapter of practically any Aikido book. And what actual "battle" was Takeda Sokaku actually in? He was basically a samurai/ronin born a century too late and travelled the land looking for patrons to support his outdated method of which O'Sensei was one. Many of his "fights" were due to him still walking around carrying samurai swords causing trouble in a time when swords were forbidden. Half his life he was run out of town for causing trouble, one of the main reasons he came to Hokkaido and under O'Sensei's patronage. You sound exactly like the same people who keep preaching the gospel, but have you actually put it into real practice? Of course Atemi "can" work but it is never practiced against a truly non-compliant partner even in randori. How is it going to work against someone trained in boxing and used to and expected to get hit for real? You think a love tap is going to stop them?
Most of aikido techniques are based on Daito - ryu techniques. The difference is in aki jiujitsu of Daito-ryu, you break your opponent's arms and legs with your techniques but in aikido, it's philosophy won't allow it's practitioners to do that stuff
So i would choose the koryu root of it and learn how to fight/hurt my opponent effectively like how martial arts should be taught rather than a watered down non-martial arts with a wrong philosophy about fighting.
Or, is there a difference between practicing Aikido and practicing Aikido?
I agree osensei and most of his students were skilled in budo. They fought they new you needed conditioning strength and they werent afraid to be hit. Things you clearly did not share prior to your mma training. Its very apparent in your "pressure test video" not all aikido schools train the way you describe, with "no resistance" one thing is missed in how your precieve aikido in general , that is Budo. Aikido is a "martial" art at some point you need to realize that teaching you dont need conditioning and a compliant opponent is not budo. The technique and mechanics of the techniques work and work well. But they do need to be used properly. With any martial technique if you know whats coming you can defend against it. Which was the problem with your so called pressure test video. They knew what you were going to do and you did exactly what was expected and were shut down. You also were obviously afraid in the ring. There are a number of akidoka fighting in mma successfully. Even landing aikido techniques in the cage. You have a timidity that shows in your videos. Less scince you started training in mma , alot changes mentally when you get hit in the face. The style has been used in law enforcement for a very long time. And there is a reason it was. Mma is a sport a game and its rules dont allow for small joint locks which is much of aikido. Its not that they arent effective they are againstbthe rules of the game. Silat, wing chun , and several other styles dont translate to mma because they rely on joint destruction eye gouging, fishhooks and other techniques deemed "illegal" in mma. Never forget mma did not "prove traditional martial arts didnt work" it uses traditional martial arts mma stands for mixed martial arts , but it is a sport with all the "dangerous" moves taken out. Its not a style its a game that uses martial arts techniques. The gloves protect your hands. You hit alot differently bare knuckled. Eye gouging and joint destruction are very effective on the street. Wrist locks and throws are as well. When applied without telling your opponent prior. Its you point of view that is questionable. You had an altercation and instead of adressing your mindset and fear you blamed the style. One good example of difference in mindset that proves my point is another youtuber like yourself that you spoke to and even colaborated with. Lenny sly, his conditioning , mindset and will. Is apearant, do not to blame aikido. It didnt fail. It is Budo.
soo. I've watched a few videos from yourself, and obviously you've trained for a long time, but it seems, I could be wrong, that you've never trained with a bit of purpose ie with someone going all out on you. A lot of students who followed O'sensei got his take whilst he was in Tokyo, when he was older, and yes all fluffy and philosophical, they hardly trained with him regularly in Iwama if at all, where he was doing his proper training. Aikido is a martial art first and foremost. You're saying on other videos you're training more and harder in BJJ, why didn't you do that in your dojo? You were teaching but not training hard. Also what are you training for? With BJJ or kickboxing for example you're training for the purpose of a fight. Aikido isn't about fighting directly so it's easy to let the intensity fall away from what it was back in the day, also most training in aikido is a bit choreographed, but isn't hitting a heavy bag choreographed? It doesn't hit back. Aikido isn't lacking if you train fully.
Thanks for your thoughts! Too bad you are judging an art because of your experience with teachers. Sensei means 'born before' and should not be confused with a guru 'who knows it all'. Maybe they have filled your cup too much and you were only ready to empty it for another art, which you seem to have found in MMA. And I wish you good luck on your journey! Definitely you have a martial artist spirit, so I am optimistic that you will find your way.
However, comparing one martial art with another one I doubt is a fruitful way to go.
I agree with you that in many aikido dojos techniques are not pressure tested; yet how can a competition be a pressure test? In order for a competition to work and to avoid serious injuries, there have to be rules - e.g. in some no kicks are allowed, you have weight classes, no punches to vital parts are allowed, people wear protection gear, you only deal with one attacker.
What's often lacking in aikido are good, strong attacks, a series of attacks etc., but this common negligence should not be used to discredit aikido as a fantasy.
Your MMA friend is right in that joint techniques would not work on someone on drugs. But taking his balance and bringing him down on his belly in an arm-lock will work. So for example you can adapt a kotegaeshi to bring such a situation under your control. As for shihonage, once the attacker is in this arm-twist, his balance taken, it is up to you whether you want to slam him on the floor and thus breaking his skull or whether you want to guide him down carefully, keeping the control and leaving him no freedom to escape.
Pressure-testing and asking critical questions should definitely be the way forward to learn. But when is the right time to judge and stop searching?
I think there should be akido only competition
Hi, folks! Found this video like on occasion. The authors talks about an intersting things and thougts as well. Go on! Greetings from russain tomiki club!