White Authors Writing About the Black Experience
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
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I read somewhere a piece by a white movie reviewer talking about why so many of his fellow white reviewers didn't like the ending of 12 Years A Slave, even though they thought the rest of the movie was a masterpiece. These reviewers felt the movie lacked "something" from its conclusion, though they couldn't figure out what that "something" was. This particular reviewer said that "something" which so many other white reviewers were responding to was a lack of a white sympathetic character or a white savior, there wasn't an absolution for white people, because the story wasn't about white people. This reviewer said that white audiences are used to being "forgiven" by the piece (be it literature, film, etc.) for the atrocities inflicted upon black people, so they felt uneasy to a story which wasn't even concerned with them, a piece that was made by black people about black people.
This struck me not only as very true, but also really sad. Sad because it's very unfortunate that black people don't get to tell their own side of the story that often, at least not in mainstream media. I'm waiting for the movie to come out in Mexico to go see it and experience it firsthand after hearing so much about it, also to support Lupita Nyong'o as a fellow Mexican.
Great discussion video, Didi. You've inspired me to look for more books written by black people, I have yet to read the few that I have, but I'm gonna get on that, promise.
Great observation and example Martin. I haven't yet picked up 12 Years a Slave nor have I seen the movie. Time willing I'll be able to this month. Unfortunately your example is often the case and I don't know when we're going to be able to move forward. Let me know what you think of the movie when you see it. :)
My book club was talking about 12 Years a Slave (the movie), and I said that I thought it was great, because it was so uncompromising in its portrayal of slavery, which makes a few scenes hard to watch (not just the parts in which the Solomon Northup is in the plantations, but also the epilogue that explains what happens when the film ends). One of the (white) women in the group was a bit dismissive, saying that she doesn't really want to see a lot of violence in a movie (even though she loved the Hunger Games, but whatever...). I replied that it should be required viewing for all Americans. Her comment really irritated me, because it felt like to me like she was saying that she doesn't want the movie to make her feel uncomfortable/guilty for something that's undeniably part of our history.
Hello! Looks like you hit the nail on the head.
i never understand why people want that. I don't feel guilty about slavery, long ago - i'm anti-slavery nowadays, i only eat fairtrade cocoa sugar etc - but i don't seek forgiveness etc. Why do people over-relate to stuff? If people slag off Britain, i don't feel it's about me - it's just the country i happened to be born in, i don't identify with it. I do over-identify with women a bit, like i read about rape, because i'm a woman, but i'm trying to stop over-identifying with being a woman too, for instance laughing at rape jokes. I don't need to be me, where me is just an accident of time and space
I'm five years late for this, and also I'm not a PoC, but I feel like the reason for this might have to do with people's lack of empathy. As though you need to have someone you directly identify with shown to you to be able to have empathy for the entire story. As though being human couldn't be enough reason for a person to see another person's story with empathy. Absolutely unrelated to the black experience, but these same people who can't feel empathy earnestly without seeing themselves in something seem to be the same people who tell others to 'get over it' when they feel media lacks proper representation, and 'it's just a story'. Amazing how empathy is only a thing when it's about you... That's not empathy, that's being self-centered. This might be a tangent and I'm sorry, but I feel like the world needs more genuine empathy.
I agree with you sooo much! What irks me as well is that people will read The Help, people will read the secret life of bees, but i have tried countless times to recommend the bluest eye (my favourite toni morrison) and it's suddenly "too much" for them. I dont understand why some of the people i know will boast of reading all these white accounts of black experience but refuse to read true black authors. And then you walk into a bookstore and on the "black history month" desk there's a bunch of white authors! I really enjoyed this video Didi, thank you for making it :)
That's my favourite TM too!!!
"As if our lives have no meaning and no depth without the white gaze. And I have spent every day of my writing life to make sure it wasn't the dominant gaze in my books." - The Goddess that is Toni Morrison.
Yes darling!
GREAT video Didi, I love and appreciate that you are speaking so openly about your thoughts and feelings on this, as well as starting a discussion. These are things that we really need to think about, and even/especially to encourage young people (and ourselves, really) to think critically about what we're reading, whether it shares with us the whole picture and what more we can and should be learning.
For me, certainly there's a BIG difference between a writer (of any race) including characters of different races in a story (a good thing), and a writer using said characters to make any statements, assumptions, or to reach any conclusions about that character's cultural experience or heritage. The difference between writing a story that includes a character who happens to be black, and writing a story that is ostensibly about "the black experience". As much of an empathetic person as I imagine myself to be, I don't imagine as a writer I could possibly recreate that authentically, nor is it really "my place" to do so, because to write about "the black experience" or "the asian american experience" or whatever, is to speak for an entire group of people, and as you say: we don't need more white authors speaking on behalf of others, we need to get society to a point where all authors regardless of race are placed on equal footing. And THEN we'll be lucky because the stories we'll all benefit from will be multiplying, and given the same level of importance.
Yes exactly! What I'm hoping for but every time I go to book stores and see how everything is all sectioned off it irritates me. Dedicated readers unite!
The controversy surrounding The Help was the first time I became aware of the "white savior" issue and since it's fallen away, it's slipped to the back of my mind. Your video brought that up as well as some new points that I hadn't even considered, and I'd like to thank you for that. I'll look with a more critical (but informed) eye next time. - Becks
Thanks Becks! To Kill a Mockingbrid is another novel with that saviour theme among others. Like To Kill a Mockingbird but.... Thanks for commenting!
I understand your view but I don't think it's a fair one... People who have never did a drug in their lives can research, study, and interact with people who have. Then go and create a character in a book or protray one in movie that makes you feel like they must of shot up before they wrote each page or each sceen because it was so raw and spot on.
As a black woman, I know the struggles of today's black women. But, by me being raised with the rights I was raised with and the pride that my parents were able to instill in me, I would have to do reseach myself to be able to create a sceen that would be believable for Jim Crow times.
For example someone telling me I need to move to let a white person sit down, would be a MAJOR PROBLEM. Where as if was during the Jim Crow times, I probably would have stood up before they even asked.
Just because I'm black doesn't mean that I know the feelings and state of mind of slaves. I have ABSOLUTELY no idea how it feels to be a slave. I don't know what they felt how they felt, I've never interviewed one or anything. And to be honest, I don't think a black person today dose. So to say a white person can protray what a black person felt at that time, just seems un fair to me.
+Rosalynn Artis Well we can agree to disagree Rosalyn. I will continue to support black authors writing about our experience because it's more authentic. At the moment books where white authors write about the black experience aren't authentic at all and totally miss the point. I don't think comparing someone writing about doing drugs and being black is a comparable example. I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to write about black people but that their books should be picked apart a lot more than they are, while books by black people are virtually ignored. I want the story of my people told with authenticity so that generations to come will know it.
Okay... Thanks for replying.
I agree with you Rosalynn
+Carlos Owusu how is she discriminating? she just doesn't agree with a privileged person trying to write about a experience the oppressed have
Yes, Simmer... Break it down for 'em. ✨💖✨Shine the light.✨💖✨
I'm a Hungarian, i.e. a bleached-out Oriental. When I am among fellow Hungarians, sooner or later we'll argue which one of us is more Hungarian and who's less. But as soon as I find myself facing people of different ethnicity/race, I feel so automatically tempted to represent Hungarians, as if I was made their ambassador. These two different modes, viewed together, made me chuckle a lot over myself.
It's hard not to notice how books about the black experience are marketed as well! Take in how many covers have only a silhouette of a character, e.g. The House Girl, The Healing, Little Bee, Chains (Seeds of America), even I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings and The Color Purple. Why do publishers do this? Do they think white readers will be turned off if confronted by a picture of a black person on the cover? It's ridiculous at best and racist at the worst.
Great video, by the way. It's important to have proper insight into this topic.
I agree totally. I've often wondered about this. I have constantly complained and openly wondered why writers of color often have novels with jacked up covers. They go to a lot of trouble to publish white authors' novels. It's frustrating!
Thank you for making this video! I think it's great that white authors want to diversify their characters, but when they take on the task of representing the history of an oppressed group or their experience, it gets really tricky. I feel like more often than not, their own romanticizations and preconceptions emerge rather than anything truly significant or realistic. Black voices need to be heard, not overshadowed by white authors who want to be allies (and I say this as a white woman). Even if they want to do it justice, the book will still be written from a privileged perspective and to me that's not as authentic. I'm much more interested in learning about black history from people who have actually lived it or still experience racism today. Those authors need to be empowered and promoted on booktube! I find booktube so white/western-centric sometimes, I wish more people read diversely.
Anyway, just my opinion. I wonder if people who read The Help will ever read a Toni Morrison book... I hope they do.
+Hélène S.G. I agree totally with all that you've said. I wouldn't hold my breath on Booktube really reading more diversely or reading a book by TM. Most of them only read YA. :/ Tha,ks for commenting and understanding what I was trying to say.
We've already had our own discussion on this, but I am glad to see you went forward with opening the "can of worms". I always welcome thoughtful, philosophical discussions. You already know where I stand - I don't appreciate inaccurate historical information being presented as factual by any author as it spreads ignorance, but I strongly feel that talented, professional, empathetic authors are able to accurately portray perspectives that they have not been able to experience first hand (race, gender, sexual orientation, class, etc.). I do not pay much attention to the race, age or gender of authors when discovering new books - I just want to find skilled writers that can make me feel, grow, learn... I would welcome an author of any race (gender, age, religion, etc.) that can accurately write historical fiction that is both entertaining and educational through it's accuracy, regardless of if they are writing with a first hand perspective. I also fear we would grossly limit our reading selections and stifle creativity if authors only wrote from experiences they have undergone in their own lifetime. Historical fiction would quickly fade away as no one alive would have lived through those experiences personally and be able to write of them. I care more about an author's talent vs their societal labels, period.
I'm dying to hear what you think about The Supremes at Earl's AYCE!!
I agree with you to a certain extent but what I hate is how the marketing of historical books somehow get lost in stupid ideas like This book is like The Help! Had to open the can of worms. ^^ Can't wait to start it.
The edition I read of The Supremes did not have that blurb on it and I truly cannot see how they are making that comparison. Much of the story of The Supremes is set in current day! Ugh... I don't understand a lot of moves marketers and publishers make, but then again, I don't love many of the mainstream big hits, so clearly I'm not the one they are targeting. It seems to me that a lot of people that love the mainstream big sellers only read 10 books or less a year, or are one of those types that genuinely find love and appreciation for almost every book they read.
Well you got that right. I definitely don't get that. Love my cover! and there's no blurb about The Help on it. :)
Totally agree with you!!! The same happens with the Arab/Muslim experience!!
I think it's 99% impossible to talk about white writers subjugating Black experiences without talking about privilege. The Help for one unconsciously burns Black womanhood and selfhood to ashes not because of the authors blatant appropriation, but because of the dismissive quality of these women's lives: pity and worthy of sympathy or help, but beyond that...nothing. In Secret Life of Bees, the same rhetoric is present. When the little girl breaks the caretaker out of prison, in her righteous little mind she is "saving" her, but not necessarily addressing the wrongness of the situation, or even the wrongness of her own interference. It's constantly niggling the back of my thoughts that SMK's most popular books are about these experiences.
At the same time, white women writing about black women during slavery should be taken with a grain--or metric ton--of salt. Often times, these accounts are exclusionary to the vitriol white women targeted to young black GIRLS subjected to their husbands, sons, snd/or fathers sexual abuse. It brings to mind Harriet Jacobs Incidents in the life of a Slave Girl. She made it very clear that the lady of the house wanted to kill her, not help her escape from her husband.
Yet, there is a certain privilege for white people writing black history. For when a black person might, there is a critical reaction to leave the "past in the past," yet when a white person does it's won itself literary acclaim. There is a privilege for white people in reading these type of stories and taking part of this type of discussion, especially on booktube. To put it into clear terms, for black booktubers we are definitely encouraged to read hyped up books nevermind if the author is white or not, but there is also an underlying pressure to read more authors of color, or participate in discussions on race relations. For me personally, it's never been a choice to think about these issues or not, I'm essentially wearing them on my skin.
P.S. Didi, this discussion is awesome. Thanks so much for opening that can of worms! - Aleichia
Well big ups to you!!! You've hit the nail on the head. Totally agree! That's one of the major reasons why when the subject of reading authors of colour popped up, originally started by Allyn J'nae, I just was waiting to see where things would go. And they went nowhere just what I thought. Anyway, this discussion I'm glad has not put people off and we're all openly speaking our minds. Once again Booktube is getting to reality and that's a good thing! :)
I loved your rant. Nothing will ever change unless people are willing to have such open and honest discussions. I haven't read many books by black authors (I own quite a few, but haven't read them all yet) but you've given me a lot to think about. I will say I always look to see who the author is so I'm conscious of the perspective I'm being given.
Fantastic discussion. I really liked hearing your perspective on these things. I, personally, am far too ignorant on the matter and you raised a lot of points that have simply never occurred to me. I'm really looking forward to hearing your further thoughts on the books mentioned. X
Will do Lesley thanks for commenting. :)
I would have to disagree. At the end of the day I believe that all authors are writing from their experience/ through their personal lenses . You should not expect a white author to write from a black person's perspective. I've read "Uncle Tom's Cabin" written by a white author and loved it. Yes, it has a white savior, but it was still impactful and groundbreaking because this story wasn't being told. But interesting discussion, Didi.
I don't expect them to write from a black person's perspective.I never said that. I want them to be more honest in their portrayal of historical fiction, henceforth leaving out the magical negro and the white saviour. Those are just guilt free writing techniques.
There was a great deal of controversy with the hbo show GIRLS and their lack of a black woman character. The writer is a white woman explained that she did not want to misrepresent and tell a bad story for a black character. I agree with you frenchie
Amazing discussion. I honestly cannot see the appeal of reading a book about "the black experience" written by a white person--it will always fall short in my eyes because there will always be a disconnect. I just cannot justify it, especially when there are so many amazing black authors who can really describe their experiences in vivid detail and have an authentic experience to back them up. When you were talking about Toni Morrison being interviewed and asked why she only wrote about black people I couldn't help but roll my eyes. I'm sure he wouldn't be too thrilled if she *only* wrote about white people, let's be real.
Exactly, but unfortunately this is a trend on the rise.
Doesn't this lead to a slippery slope, though? Every demographic is made up of unique individuals with unique experiences and perspectives to offer readers, regardless of how similar those individuals might seem. Authors have to guide characters through situations they have not personally experienced in every novel, while only being able to truly see things from their singular, personal perspectives. Maybe you are drawing a distinction between books that are 'narrated', and books that assume a more autobiographical tone? Either way, for your position to be consistent, you would also have to disagree with any human who writes about elves or werewolves, fairies or vampires. Crime writers could not write about a murderer without having committed the crime themselves, and only a small handful of authors could write about space travel. Fiction is, by definition, untrue. If we start insisting that authors censor and limit themselves in this regard, it seems to me that we will find ourselves in a literary desert very quickly.
Yes, to accurate African historical fiction. We need much more of it.
I seriously can't get enough of your channel.. I have been looking for a booktuber like you for so long. You review such a wide variety of books and this video was spot on! Preach!!!!!
Well thank a lot! I try to pick books that I will like. There are some genre I just can't get into so much - sic-fi and ya! Thanks for the compliments and for supporting!
I try to support all black authors and show them love.
Hi Frenchie,
I stumbled onto your video because it came up in the side bar for one of the videos I just posted about Black Authors on my own channel. Great discussion by the way.
A couple of friends of mine who happen to be black just wrote their first sci-fi novel and I'm trying to get them some more exposure. So I covered them on my CZcams channel and I'll be doing a blog post as well. Also helps that they've written on topics Nerdarchy is into.
Any way after shooting the interview with them. I mentioned I'd like to do another about being black authors writing sci-fi. I was surprised to their response although I get it. That didn't want their books to end up in the black section and they didn't want to be known as black authors. They wanted to be known as science fiction writers.
To be honest I never even thought about their book ending up in the black section. I mean why would I I'm white and when I think of a book store I don't segment it by the color of the writer I just go to the section that has the kind of books I like to read. So that kind of opened my eyes to something I wasn't aware of.
Thanks for the video
Well I hate to break it to your friends but they will wind up in the Black section. That's the way it works unfortunately. I think it's impossible for an African-American to write without someone making reference to their colour. Octavia B. Butler was a sic-fi writer. Guess where you find her books? In the Black section. I wish I could change this too. The excuse is that it's supposed to make it easier for readers to find different authors. Whatever! I understand what they don't want but I don't see how they are going to avoid that. Black authors are so unpublicised it's pathetic. Most die hard black readers like me have given up on the idea that black authors will be seen as mainstream. We read black authors because we're interested and we know not many other people will. I'm going to check out your video. Thanks for commenting!
I recently had a similar discussion except it centered upon white authors creating films about the Black experience. In particular, we were critiquing Tarantino's D'jango. The discussion ultimately hinged upon the question of who or whom are these films and in this case books being written for? Is the intent of the white authors who write or create films about Blacks intended for a Black audience or is it intended for a white audience? In addition, when analyzing the targeted audience what role does buying power play in their intentions. It would be interesting to see the percentage of African Americans who are buying/reading novels written by white authors on the black experience in comparison to their white counterparts.
I totally agree with your perspective and have similar views regarding The Help. Additionally, although I have not conducted the research it seems that many of the books written by white authors center around Black experiences of oppression i.e. slavery, Jim Crow/Civil Rights era, segregation etc.
I am currently reading a book called The Grey Album by Kevin Young (African American) Young is known largely for his poetry but embarked upon a cultural study of African-American culture, literature, music and other art forms and their impact on American/world culture. He also talks a great deal about how Africans/African Americans have used "stories" or "storying" to keep us sane under the weight of oppression. It is through the authenticity of these stories that have given voice and influence on world culture. I mention Young to stress the point that the experiences of African-Americans or any ethnic group bear a unique experience that if told or stolen by dominant society breed cultural inauthenticity. Great video, thanks for sharing!
Thanks Yolanda for the recommendation! I definitely feel that marketing is the culprit. That's why I get mad when I see a good African-American novel with a jacked up cover. This seems to be normal since there are so many jacked up covers everywhere. It's clear the publishers are looking for some sort of cheap solution as if they think nobody is going to be interested in it. Not to mention the placement of novels in bookstores. What's up front? the known names and those about to get known with blurbs from books like The Help.
I completely agree with you. It irritates me that books like The Help get so much critical acclaim, or when male writers get props for writing female characters well, while women writers writing female characters get labeled "chick lit." They just further support the idea that stories about black/"ethnic"/female/[insert non-dominant group here] could have universal value and appeal *only* if they were written by white, usually male authors. And as this article points out, white authors get praised for writing about things that they don't know, while non-white authors are questioned about authenticity. www.policymic.com/articles/61987/the-one-thing-white-writers-get-away-with-but-authors-of-color-don-t
Thanks Book Binger! Exactly what I mean. Thanks for joining in the discussion! Go over and check out readwomenwriters2014 on twitter.
Will do! And thanks for doing this video - more discussions like these are definitely needed on booktube.
thanks a lot! I felt like the can of worms needed to be opened.
Just read the article. Interesting.
Yes isn't it. White authors aren't questioned on how authentic their novels are.
I have to tell you how much I appreciate this video and yourself! This is incredibly important subject and ahh, just a great video all around! and great points! On a more general point (because I cannot speak from your perspective) but definitely as a poc, I continually see (and feel frustration as a result) a lot of poc voices often marginalized and/or silenced in literature and it's definitely a huge problem that is not exactly going away overnight. Bringing awareness (or being aware) and reading critically is the best way to getting poc's voices heard (because we definitely deserve to have our voices and stories heard!) but it's definitely a ways to go. On another note, I am definitely checking out all the authors you mentioned! And I'm actually reading my first Toni Morrison, Beloved, (I know, what took me so long!!) this week and I'm looking forward to it!
It's a hard read. don't give up. It's worth it in the end. TM makes her readers work.
Thank you! I appreciate the advice and it sounds like it's going to be a fulfilling read!
Absolutely!
I’m getting to this video very late, but I wanted to say thanks for the thought-provoking content, even if my (late blooming) personal enlightenment wasn’t its intended purpose. I’m sad to say that as a white woman, I didn’t consider the race of the authors as a I read The Help or The Secret Life of Bees (granted I read them as a teenager) and that is problematic (for the authors as well as me). This video reminded me of Baldwin’s “The Devil Finds Work” and his commentary on how “classics” that he watched and read as a child were always written in a way to promote the white savior mentality or to leave the white viewer feeling “forgiven”. Again, this wasn’t something I’d ever considered as I watched some of those older movies with my grandmother. Anyway, I simply wanted to say thanks for pushing all of your viewers to grow and to think more deeply about the voice and purpose of the content we consume. I am trying to read more “own voices” writing, and I was wondering if you feel like you’ve seen any progress in terms of the publicity that own voice authors are receiving since you posted this video four years ago.
Thanks again!
Also, did you create a follow up video after reading the books you mentioned?
No haven't done a follow up video yet. I have seen some progress but not nearly enough as I would have hopped. The black authors that are published are selectively hand picked it seems. However there are many great books being published by black authors. This is fight that has to be continued and persistent. I did find a white author that writes about the black experience with care. Jonathan Odell. Try reading The Healing. Wonderful! There are some white authors that could learn from his writing of black characters. Thanks for commenting Brenna!
I noticed this trend as well; I don't trust the research. We need to be more literary and protect our own history. Great topic.
Thanks Didi! Ugh, the help. We don't need to get into it, because I'm sure you know what I think but it was just upsetting with the savior crap and total appropriation and whitewashing of Black history, power and resistance. I will get on The Known World because I haven't read it, but I am reading Black (mostly) Canadian women for Black History Month, and of course continuing beyond the end of February. So far I'm counting What We All Long For, and I've read Krik? Krak! by Edwidge Danticat, and I am currently reading Sister Mine by Nalo Hopkinson.
To me there is no mystery as to why people have a problem or even a subconscious hesitation reading Black people write the Black experience. It's because white supremacy is a thing that is so entrenched that people with white privilege make conscious and unconscious decisions that continue to subjugate, deny, erase yet capitalize(the most disturbing part) upon black and POC experiences. We see it time and time again.
People are also more apt to discredit black authors again subconsciously or not, and give more weight to white authors because they are seen as experts and more qualified to talk about black experiences.
We also consistently see guilt manifest itself in a slew of different ways. People will read white authors write black POVs because it makes them feel less guilty and lends itself to a bizarro, distorted perception of the black experience that feels "better". It's somehow easier to stomach in some ways precisely because it subscribes to the stereotypes.
(Edit): Forgot to mention in all of that that I will put a book back on the shelf if I find that it is a Black/POC perspective appropriated and written by a white author. I ain't about that life.
Anyways those are my very initial thoughts. Thanks for this. -S
Well I have to say I agree with everything you said. I just hoped that by now this would be over but no it's not. It keeps going on....
Girl the struggle continues. -S
Yes power to the people!
Thanks! That's one of the reasons why I dislike Twitter.
I really love this video and the issues you talked about. I'm currently reading The Secret Life of Bees and whilst it's good, there's just something off about it.
It's such a shame that authors who aren't white (whether they be black, Asian, Hispanic etc) don't get enough publicity and credit for what they produce. But it's also really problematic that there aren't even that many characters of different ethnicities in books that aren't directly linked to that character's ethnicity/racial history from writers who do get the publicity. And as someone who reads a lot of young adult fiction, off the top of my head I can think of only two books I've read with a poc main character, both Hispanic. Growing up with that, along with how tv shows and movies are primarily made up of white characters, can be really damaging, not to mention I'm mixed race and have literally never read a book with a mixed race main character. And I feel like a lot of this has to do with the fact that they aren't brought to my attention, they don't get any publicity thus so many people are unaware of their existence.
Anyway, sorry for the ramble, I really liked this video and if you have any book recommendations I'd be really grateful :)
My daughter jus read a trilogy called The Cambion Chronicles by Jaime Reed. It's YA and she enjoyed it. Another YA series I'm anxious to read is Noughts and Crosses by Malorie Blackman. Have you read those?
thanks, I'll check out The Cambion Chronicles! and I own the first book in that series and hope to start it soon as it sounds very intriguing
My daughter really seemed to like it. She's 16 and doesn't get a chance to read in English as much as she would like. She was thinking of maybe doing a video with me about the series.
just read what it's about and it seems interesting and a more in-depth description/talk about it would be great to watch :)
Read Caucasia by Danzy Senna. Excellent book! A biracial girl is abandoned by her black father because she looks too white and is raised by her liberal white mother. They move to an all white area to hide from the FBI because the mother is being investigated for her involvement with the black panther party or something other. It's a remarkable story written from the daughter's experiences. I couldn't put it down.
Didi, great video! I thought for Black History that the BookTube Community would celebrate...add some culture in the mix.
I must say for a long time I only read Black Authors, because I felt if I didn't read them who would support them. There are some great black authors.
Oprah has open the stage for all people to read a few black authors with her book club, which is a plus.
Normally, I don't read the black experience from a white person, because it just feels wrong. However, I did read The Help. I did enjoy the read, but I think I read from of view that I read it due to the hype and to be able to join into a conversation just like I read 50 Shades of Grey book one.
That is all I'm going to say for now. I could keep it rolling. :)
Dedicated Readers Unite! :D
I am glad you brought this up. I read the secret lives of bees and was confused as to what it really was about as well. I also felt what exactly was the author trying to convey. Good point about The Help. Asking Toni Morrison that question is like asking Tyler Perry why he does movies about black people. Nice Rant
Thanks! And that is the question we all as readers should be asking ourselves when we read these types of books.
I forgot to mention that on this site their is an excellent recording oh a debate moderated by James Baldwin on this very subject. It was between his two friends Ossie Davis & William Strydon(sp?) over the latter's (a white man) publishing of a historical novel about Nat Turner that got turned into a movie. It is an excellent debate and Davis masterfully goes in and expands on a lot of the issues you bring up.
Thanks for telling me. I'll definitely have to go check it out.
It would be nice if you could take situations and tell them from the black insight and then the white perspective. I agree. You cannot write about something that you have not experienced. I once listened to a workshop on people with mental illnesses. The presenter talked about anxiety, PPSD, and OCD- which she clearly had never experienced. She then said that medication was not necessary. Hello, I have all these and have been in the teaching profession for 30 years, getting ready to retire with a full pension. So, I can, totally, understand how you feel. Great video and with great points.
Finally. Real thoughts about books. Thank you!!
Thanks of watching, commenting, and supporting!
I felt the same way after seeing a play about American-Chinese cultural intersections, written by a white woman. I felt something off and empty about the whole play, and then when I finally looked up what her background was, and found that she was not Asian, nor American even.... it added insult to injury. The terms are cold and real: I gave quite a bit of money to the continued economic appropriation of marginalized and racialized people in this country. AND, I didn't even like the play. Oof.
I understand about the set up of the book. I also did not like how the blonde that married the rich lady's husband was considered white trash because she expressed herself and grew up poor. Total stereotyping!
Oh wow, I did not know you vlogged. I friended you on GR through a mutual acquaintance because I liked your book selection and opinions. On the video topic: well said. For further reading on this topic I recommend Ralph Ellison's Shadow And Act and the James Baldwin's Notes of A Native Son and Nobody Knows My Name. The best book I have read on this subject so far is a short but thorough book by Toni Morrison called Playing In The Dark which really goes in on this topic and is heavily recommended. My opinions on it are on GR.
Read Playing in the Dark. Fantastic read! What's your name on Goodreads? Or if you prefer not to say here drop me a line on Goodreads.
Awesome video,thanks.
Thought provoking and interesting and makes me want to explore more books ..
We need more people like you.Ricey reads on You Tube promotes middle eastern reads- check her out also
+Debra Luciew Thanks! Yes I know her. Unfortunately Booktube doesn't seem to be too interested in reading books by black authors.
I read Black Like Me in high school 100 years ago...LOL I had forgotten all about that. I should read that again. My two cents: this continually happens in children's literature as well. These books win awards and I don't know why because they are not that good. I always wonder if this same text had been submitted by an unknown black author if it would even get published. It seems to me that once certain authors prove popular, almost anything they write is given the stamp of approval. I keep saying we should be telling our own stories.
The same question posed to Ms. Morrison was posed to Spike Lee once about his movies. He told the person something akin to ask Woody Allen why there are no black people in his films.
Finally, I noticed this savior trend in movies about teachers. I have yet to see a movie made besides To Sir With Love, Lean on Me, and the television version of Marva Collins' Way that shows black women in heroic roles in the same proportion as their white counterparts. Black women stay in the teaching trenches for years. They stay in the same schools so long they teach 3 and 4 generations of the same family. Many white teachers come in and teach for two years, gain experience and move on. Yet movies continually portray them as saviors while the black teachers toil on in near oblivion.
I had no intention of rambling this long. Good observations on your part. Thanks.
LoverofmySoul I agree totally.
Many are just nosey, and unless you walk in my shoes, you can never tell my story. I had many pink folks begging for my journals, but this elder has said it must be in my audio words or another sister. I would pick you, and a few others around me. Not a good thing!
Love this vid. Definitely hit the nail on the head with this one. It's simply a matter of needing to see a white person be a "good" person in a time when they were the ultimate wrong. But then I think about the fact that within the storyline of American Horror Story: Coven, Kathy Bates' character Madame Lalaurie who is the absolute worst of humanity and is a creature only deserving of disgust, gained sympathy from viewers because her kids were killed (as a result of her actions) and the black character who is "mean" to her is looked at as the bad guy! WHAT??? This has led me to believe that no matter the situation there is a wall of denial and guilt that prevents acceptance and responsibility.
Haven't watched American Horror Story but I get what you mean. Sounds like a case of dark is bad and white is good. Such a simplistic view of things but boy have we been conditioned that way and it started with fairytales.
Her kids weren't just killed. They were tortured for all eternity because of her actions. I would hope that would elicit sympathy from anyone. However, the sympathy I felt was for the kids, not the mother. I've seen the entire Coven series at least three times and I've never seen the black character as 'mean'. In fact, I've never seen him referred to as 'mean' or bad by anyone. However, if you're referring to Papa Legba, he did require infant theft and sacrifice, which I absolutely saw as a less than positive trait.
This old video popped up today for me. I'd love it if you would revisit this very important topic at this time. I think a lot of us older, well- meaning white folk are oblivious to the white savior thing and would be receptive to some education. We're really just now acknowledging our white privilege. I remember feeling vaguely uncomfortable reading The Secret Life of Bees many years ago. I questioned whether Sue Monk Kidd should have written it. I met her years later at an author event dinner at the Free Library of Philadelphia. She and her husband are delightful , sweet Southerners. I suspect she is quite innocently a white savior type. Anyway, we all need some education here and now. I'd love to see a followup to this video.
Black people can't be responsible for educating white people about racism, acknowledging white privilege, microagressions, dismantling structural racism, disparities in hiring practices, internal biases, and racial profiling, the resources are readily available through the same mediums black people utilize, internet, libraries, the arts, speaking to people, films, podcasts, radio, etc.📖📺📻🎟🎭⚖
I've heard a lot of problematic things about The Help and The Secret Life of Bees - so it's totally not just you.
I’m so grateful for awesome people like you who take the time to pick apart tropes in the things you read and discuss these often sensitive but equally pertinent things! I’ve really enjoyed loads of videos on your channel - and so many others on youtube - that talk about diversity in fiction (and have heaps of really lovely recommendations now, too.)
Thank you~ c:
Thanks Lydia for your support and comments! I just wish Booktube was really on board with reading diversely and not just doing things for show or to make it look like they are or to sermon others that they should be reading diversely however they are not. check out the #ReadSoulLit Photo Challenge on Twitter and Instagram for more recs. Thanks again for your support!
"Historical fiction involving the black experience" key word here is fiction. Has everyone forgotten what fiction means? I know I am late to this party but it stuck me as odd that anyone would read a piece of fiction and complain that it's not accurate.
If the story is using an historical event as the base for the story and what they write is false yes there's a problem. Otherwise they should just write fiction.
Write about whatever you like.
Not a hard thing to grasp.
kelman727 Just make sure it’s authentic
First. Love the earrings. Had to say it. Second. I understand where you're coming from completely. I tried to read 'The Help' multiple times but could not get into it. Besides the writing coming off as scratchy, I just wasn't moved by the characters. Maybe because I'm someone who almost exclusively seek ethnic writers when it comes to contemporary literature--for identification resonance (catchy, eh?). Still, I *could* attribute it to that unspoken instinct we have that when we move into a crowd we look for faces that mirror our own clearly. That's probably about as easy as I can label my experience.
Thanks for the compliment! Yes I get what you mean. Familiarity is something most people are drawn to, not to mention the authenticity when writing about any race's experience is important, essential, and should never be overlooked.
The main character in the book was Skeeter. I enjoyed The Help for purely entertainment purposes. I feel like white authors write these novels maybe as a way appease their consciences. I just don't even understand the attempt to do so because there is just no way to accurately grasp the black experience from a position of white privilege. What I don't like is the way those times are portrayed in the media as if they weren't that bad. It's like they're trying to rub the edges off that very raw part of American history and say "White people weren't really that bad to colored persons." For every white "savior" there were countless ones who had no problem with the oppression.
Also, can I just say that I LOVE seeing black faces on Booktube, especially female ones. We are not all standing on corners shucking and jiving. Some of us are actively trying to improve our minds and rise.
Evita Sawyers Thanks for the compliment Evita! I can remember growing up always with my face in a book. Then went to college and majored in English Lit. Can you believe at one of my high school reunions one of my black friend's boyfriend asked me why I was majoring in English Lit. He said I was black and black people didn't do that. Really? I'll never forget that.
Yes Evita there is a lot of guilt there for sure. Thanks for joining in the discussion! :)
frenchiedee I would also love to see your list of your favorite books by black authors. I do feel very strongly that black authors are just not as promoted as white authors and I just don't understand it! Great, thought provoking video.
Thanks! I'm working on one as we speak.
Thank you for this. It's a sensitive topic, but it needed to be discussed.
I love this video because you bring up some excellent points. I do think some of what you brought up is a direct result of white guilt and how white people try to sweep atrocities ancestors have committed under the rug by writing white people as saviors and black women as Mammy figures to ease some of the guilt. It's easier to focus on this version of history versus the real thing that can drum up that guilt and bring up facts white people don't want to face.
I personally am making an effort to read more POC authors this year even though I haven't come out and announced it publicly. It's definitely broadened my horizons as a reader and I like the direction my reading is going.
What are you planning on reading this year?
Great video, Didi. As usual. Love that you are pushing and encouraging the booktube community to dig deeper and think harder, broader. I've got a lot of growing and learning to do myself. We need to talk about these things and not be afraid to say stuff that might ruffle feathers. Also, I read The House Girl last year and (spoiler alert) it's all about the white girl. Shocking, I know.
Now why does that not surprise me. ^^
I loved this video. Thank you so much for bringing up such a meaningful topic.
I remember reading The Help about 4 years ago and really liking it. I mean, it isn’t that great when it comes to the writing or historical accuracy. But it was enjoyable. I remember being really glad that someone was writing about racism and bringing the discussion to a mainstream public. I guess that was one of the points that made me like the book. But then again, I know that I was really biased and uneducated about racism or the struggle that POC had to endure years ago. And I didn’t pay attention to the “white saviour complex” as well. If I was to read The Help now, I’m sure I’d be way more critical about it and pay much more attention to those flaws. Because it is a flawed book.
I don’t think that it is a bad thing that white people try to write black characters. If a book is a work of fiction, I think that a character can be built in a way to better convey the message that the author is trying to convey. I think that a white author has the right to write a black character, or a black author write a white character, or an author can write a lunatic character even if they never had a mental health problem, and so on. For credibility purposes, the ideal is that the author does a lot of research first about the topic. However, being fictional, the product of their writing will never really feel authentic, because it is a story, a creation, a process of trying to emulate reality, but never quite achieving the veracity that is innate to a real event.
In my opinion, when it comes to the creative process the author shouldn’t feel constrained to what he/she can or cannot write.
However, I do agree with you and I firmly believe that a book written by a black author about black people will always be and feel more authentic, because they’ve experienced (or their relatives, or close friends) something similar to what they’re writing about.
The fact that February is Black History Month and that a lot more people are talking about these issues has made me think about it more than I ever did before. And even though I haven’t been reading books by black authors as much as I should be, I have been watching some movies about activists and POC. So far I’ve watched Malcom X, Twelve Years a Slave, Mandela: Long Walk to Freedom. Are there any movies that you’d recommend?
They are still writing get from a privileged standpoint in which they never experienced also by the fact that black authors don't get recognized
Well, that's true unfortunately and it's really bad that the publishing
of white authors writting about black experience may lead to even less
opportunities being given to POC. =\Well, that's true unfortunately and it's really bad that the publishing
of white authors writting about black experience may lead to even less
opportunities being given to POC. =\
I read Things Fall Apart in a class taught by a professor from Uganda. Thought it was an interesting read on colonialism.In my own time, I read a short novel called On the Come Up by Hannah Weyer, a white woman, about a black teenage girl in New York. I wonder if you have seen or read it? I borrowed it from my local library last year.
+Jeanne Kwong No I4m sorry I haven't heard of it. Will go check it out. Thanks for letting me know.
I think the only reason I thought Black Like Me was acceptable too, was because it was really more his own experience than the black experience, so I was cool with that.
I've actually only read one other book like this and it was In Darkness by Nick Lake who is white and the book is about a Haitian boy, BUT I cant judge that book, because I don't know the Haitian experience myself.
I haven't read the Help, mostly because of how you down it lol, but I have seen the movie and I don't think the movie comes off like how you describe the book. Maybe it's because it has black actresses interpreting black characters, which they do accurately, I'm not sure, but I did like the movie and it was clear that the main characters in the movie, were in fact The Help.
This was great Didi!
Thanks for joining in. When and if you read the book let me know what you think. I won't be watching the movie. ;)
lol I aint reading that book!
I hear ya!
My son is almost 20 and a reader and aspiring writer.
Wow that's fantastic! Well good luck to him. It's not easy but if he's motivated it'll happen. :)
Awesome discussion. I have been thinking about this more and after looking at my stats from last year, I really didn't read enough books from women of color. I read from men of color but women not so much. Maybe like 6-8 books?
The thing with white writers getting more credit and recognition about the experiences of minorities is because they are still seen as the default unbiased person. Especially white males. Women get hormonal and unreasonable. Black people are too hung up about racism and slavery and are too angry. So there is this tacit attitude that only white men can be levelheaded and completely accurate about what minorities really go through.
I see this all the time over the internet, where some white people twist the effects and meaning of racism to minorities, change it to what they think it is and then apply it to themselves as if they are victims too and that black people are too biased and unreasonable to have a dialogue about significant factors in their lives and their history.
As if being around it all the time makes people of color less qualified to identify or talk about their experiences. But no one would ever tell a white man that he is unable to talk about his experiences as a white man because he doesn't have the perspective of anything else.
Ever since I moved out of Alaska, and started watching more media I have noticed stuff like this more and more. Like there is a movie in production talking about the tsunami in South East Asia, but it tells it through the story of a white family on vacation. Because apparently for things to be valid they need to be put through the white lens to be understood or relatable to anyone, right?
This also makes me think of the comedy show Key & Peele, which I absolutely love because they have hilarious skits about the implications of these weird black stereotypes and tropes. Like there is a skit where two magical negros have a wizard battle to win the right to fix this middle aged white man's life. Or they had a skit where it implied that all black people had a hive mind, and by getting the okay from one black person to say like the n-word, meant that every other black person in the planet also got the message. Because that is totally a thing right?
Personally for me, I don't end to want to read books talking about the black experience by white authors. I had no inclination to watch the help, even though both of my grandmothers and aunt were maids. I don't want a white person to tell me what my family or me, what I have gone through or what I see as things that effect my life due to my race. I know that there are some people that can get it and do a decent job but like with the book A Thousand Pardons, what Johnathan Dee made this one black character do, made me want to toss the book.
Also, I get really annoyed as this exacerbated white guilt that makes it seems like white people are suffering sooo much with the burden of the history of racism. Like this xojane article. www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/it-happened-to-me-there-are-no-black-people-in-my-yoga-classes-and-im-uncomfortable-with-it
Anyway this comment is already waaay too long. Just great discussion. It would be good to know which white authors are able to portray the black experience well. Or maybe this could be a buddy reads thing and a bunch of us black booktubers can talk about this in a hangout or something? Buddy reads are sooo in right now.
Well Chloe you hit the nail on the head of a lot of things for me. Black authors getting credit for their writing just seems to be non existant. Ever since Toni Morrison got her literary awards it's as if no other author exists. It's like the Women's Prize's short list last year didn't see fit to nominate Adiche or Selasi. They just nominated Zadie Smith. No shade to Zadie but it was as if they couldn't think of anybody. Would love to do a longer discussion about this topic with other black book tubers. I'll definitely be coming back with discussions on the books I'm going to be checking out. Thanks for your very eloquent pertinent comment Chloe! Will check out the link too. :D Yikes that article! Really? Peleease....
frenchiedee abookeveryotherday I'm jumping in here to say I'm in for a black booktuber hangout! -S
YAS! Me too. :D
frenchiedee abookeveryotherday StephanieSpines andTim I'm down! #commentcreep
YES!
Thanks for this wonderful discussion! This is a very important topic which needs to be discussed (and debated). I have not watched the Toni Morrison interview you mentioned- will check it out.
Thanks! Please come back and give us your opinion on things. :)
are you a teacher? or a scholar? because I learn sooooo much from your videos!!! you have very deep thoughts!!! and you verbalise them so well!!!
I'm an English language trainer. Thanks!
I thoroughly enjoyed your video! You brought up many important points that require discussion. When I read The Help for the first time I enjoyed it so much but I remember feeling like something was off, something that made me uncomfortable about the book. . It wasn't until I learned more about the white savior concept and the Mamie stereotype that I realized why I felt uncomfortable. I've never gone back to it since. Kind of regret reading it, feel like I fell into some sort trap by enjoying it.
I know what you mean. You shouldn't feel bad for reading it. You needed to read it to form your own opinion and there's nothing wrong with that. We all just need to read a bit more critically and try not to be swayed by the hyper marketing techniques in operation in the publishing world.
Love this video! It reminds me also of Chimamanda's The danger of the single story. Have you read Americanah? I'd love to hear your comments on it. :-] I come from Brazil, where the black experience is yet to be written by the black. Brazilians mostly read the experience as written by white people...
As a matter of fact I'm reading it right now. Love Adiche! She's brilliant! Next month's read for the Intrernational Reads book club on Goodreads is Half of a Yellow Sun. If you haven't rad that one you should because it's really good. Will be doing a review and a Googlehangout discussion with Dominique Taylor from Token in America. Could you recommend some good Brazilian authors that have been translated into English please? Thanks for stopping by and commenting! :)
Fantastic video. I think people read two ways: they want to read the familiar, or they want to read the unfamiliar, and they find it very difficult to cross lines. I hated The Help. I thought it was ridiculous and sappy, and somehow minimized what must have been dangerous situations for many people of color at that time; situations, that as a white person, I might not have thought twice about.
How about some suggestions of lesser-known black authors writing about black experiences? I've read Morrison's books, but how about the unknown authors? Looking forward to your next video on this topic. Thank you.
Very good discussion! I find your point of view on The Help very enlightening. I've read it last year and I enjoyed the read, but what you said really got me thinking that there is something off with that book. Thank you for doing this video!
I've seen that particular interview with Toni Morrison before and I was shocked when he asked that question, but she handled him perfectly.
Lydia
Didn't she. I get really put off when authors of colour are asked those types of questions. White writers are never asked them.
Wow, I'm so glad that I stumbled upon your channel! I have several comments regarding points that you've made, and when I really get a minute later If it's okay I'll be sure to do so. Thank you so much for sharing your views! Love your channel and book suggestions! After I get my children situated for Christmas I'm going to be sure an make purchases on quite a few of your selections!
Well Thank You Queen Dei and Welcome! I look forward to your future comments.
I may eventually make a response video to this. I'm just getting started with making videos, so give me time. Right now I'm doing tax accounting and am too preoccupied with that to create any videos at all.
I'm wondering what you thought of the classic, "Cry the Beloved Country" and "Sounder" - both books written by white men. "Sounder" won the Newbery Medal even though the author had never heard of the award until he got the phone call informing him that he won.
Every time I've read a book written by a black person it has been because I believed in the merit of the book and author - a few that come to mind are James Baldwin, Christopher Paul Curtis, and Alice Walker... I didn't read their books because they were black, but because I believed they were talented authors.
Anyhow, from a fiction author point of view (and a white author, obviously) I appreciate your comments. Now it seems strange that I haven't been writing about black people - I've written about whites, Chinese, indigenous people in a very ancient civilization, and Bigfoot, but not blacks... and I really don't think I should limit myself to not writing about black people, because I've had a lot of experience living with them over the years. Probably I shouldn't do it as a first-person POV character, but who knows, I might have something to say!
frenchiedee Thanks for the response! I think we *should* talk about this more. Communication helps!
I had some white writing friends who were attempting to co-write a double-1st person POV historical novel about black twins, and I always thought it was an odd project - but they were really into it to the point of trying to talk in dialect of the place/time (all this on a message board!) I haven't communicated with them in months, however, and don't know how that is going. I think there's a tendency for some writers to want to write about black people just to show how non-prejudiced they are... maybe it is a USA thing, because racial tensions have been such a huge issue over the years in this country. That's what I thought may have motivated "The Help." However, from the author of "Sounder," I got the impression he was trying to open people's eyes to the injustice of sharecropping and extreme poverty.
You know, American Natives have the same issues with non-Natives trying to write their stories. Even though I lived in a town dominated by an indigenous tribal culture in Northern California, when I wrote a children's book about the area, I didn't try to write from their point of view. I was *relieved* when the local feedback I received was positive, after the book was published. There were tribal people in the book, but not as main characters.
Love love love this video, love you for talking about this, and I love reading these comments.
I have The Known World on my giant TBR list, like I actually have it sitting on my desk. I was thinking about reading that this month or The Cutting Season by Attica Locke. Maybe both? Either way, I feel like my read one POC author a month is still not enough. The great thing about that goal is the fact that I'm discovering SO MANY GREAT AUTHORS that I never heard of before and are otherwise getting ignored.
Hopefully we keep talking about this and keeping talking about great non-white authors and it will change.
I hope so too Rincey! Got a review coming of Ladies Coupé. I think you'd like this book. Takes place in modern day India. Dedicated Readers Unite! :)
Such an interesting discussion and video. I know I'm really uneducated on this matter, even though I'm trying to learn more and re-educate myself, so it was great to hear your views on this.
I've never read The Help but I remember seeing the film a few years ago. At the time, I loved it. But it was only later when I got myself at least a little more educated on racism (and other social issues) that I realised how much of a white saviour complex that film had and I becamse really uncomfortable even thinking about it, so I can't imagine myself wanting to read the book now.
Thank you for your recommendations and I look forward to hearing your other recommendations and thoughts on this topic.
It really does make me uncomfortable that so many white people like myself still think that our voices are the most important one. Like, when it comes to issues of race I know that I have no idea what it must be like to suffer racism or to have no representation in the media. I'm really bad at wording things ahh, but in the same way that it irritates me that men think their voices are more important when it comes to feminism, or cishet people think that their voices matter the most with LGBTQIA+ issues, white people should (for once in our lives) admit that our voices are not the important ones and we should probably listen to people of colour. This is probably terrible worded and rambly, sorry.
I'm kind of ashamed to say that I didn't know that James Baldwin was black but I'd immediately gone out and bought Giovanni's Room after Elli's review anyway because it sounded fascinating so I'll be sure to get on and read it this month!
Great video and apologies for this incoherent and rambly comment!
No problem you were quite clear. I say take a look at Giovanni's Room. IT's awesome! As for reading other authors of colour check out some of the opens I reviewed, why not even check out Junot Diaz. Let me know what you think of Giovanni's Room once you get to it.
frenchiedee
Thank you, I'm glad I made sense! I've just started Giovanni's Room and I can already tell I'm going to give it a competely positive review. I'm in love with his writing!
I'm definitely going to sit down soon and watch a load of your, and others', videos and make a list of authors of colour that I should check out. Thank you (:
Thanks! Glad you're enjoying Baldwin! He was a brilliant writer!
I would be interested in a video that recommends black authors. I've read a lot of Toni Morrison, and some Alice Walker but I would like to hear about some more good authors or particular books.
Hi Christina all you have to do is check my older videos and my blog www.didibooksenglish.wordpress.com
Great video and discussion. I think its great that this topic is being addressed. I personally would like to see more authors of color put into the spotlight and I have had to challenge myself to read more works by black authors. So great that there is such an open and civilized discussion on this topic!
I'm glad to that people have stayed civil about it. The same discussion needs to happen with the readers of YA, but since there aren't any popular black YA Book tubers don't think that's going to happen.
I have just met you and saw a few of your other videos, but I LOVE YOU!!!! I can trust your reviews and scream, shout and Amen on books I have read as well. Keep it coming glad to see a brown woman as a Booktuber! Please don't leave me lol
Hello thanks for the kind words. Not leaving just on holiday and taking a break. Will be back soon. Thanks so much for all of the support! :D
I read "The Healing" a couple of years ago and found it quite interesting so I am curious to hear your thoughts on it given today's discussion. As well, my book club will be doing "House Girl" in April so I will definitely be reading it with a different perspective. Thank you for addressing this issue...would love to hear more of your "rants" going forward!
Will do Karen. I'm making an effort this year to do vote reviews and other videos when I have something to say. Booktube seems to be lacking in depth and I don't want to waste my time doing videos to say nothing. It's the same with my blog. Lokking forward to hearing what your book club has to say about House Girl. Happy reading....
your opinions are everything I feel as well.
This is one of my favorite videos that you have done! I have noticed the "white savior" thing that you mentioned in books, but I thought it was just me lol. I did like The Help, but there were things that bothered me about the book, and I didn't really look for it's historical correctness (is that even a word?) it was entertainment only.... I could go on and on. I really want to do a video response to this next week because I have a lot to say on this topic, things that have been on my mind for ages. Also I mentioned you and linked this video in my #FridayReads for this week. I am reading the Autobiography of Malcolm X and I KNEW something was different about this book, but until I watched this video I couldn't put my finger on it. Have a good weekend! :-)
Well can't wait to hear your review of Malcom X and your video response. Thanks for commenting Inge!
Wow Didi, a great video and a very thought-provoking discussion! A lot of things were raised that I hadn't thought about before. It's almost as if there is this all rounded acceptance that things are this way, the world acknowledges the past of slavery and black history but the truth is never fully exposed and there seems to be a walking on eggshells atmosphere too with some books. I think the white saviour idea is very true and many books set around the theme of black history have either a white saviour or a black saviour because they find it difficult to write a realistic story. I agree totally that some books feel like something is missing and I think it can be a realistic approach that isn't true to that time period. I really enjoyed Native Son and The Bluest Eye because something rang true with them. It seems almost like some authors regardless of their origins don't fully expose black history or the time period and there is this airy fabrication for the benefit of a good plot.
Thanks Samantha for joining in the discussion. The Bluest Eye is one of my favourite books. It's a must read from Toni Morrison. We still have a way to go but being aware is a start.
I expect people will have reactions to the Native American Indian warriors in my YA book. I have my reasons for writing them the way I do and I'm secure in it, but thinking about how others will react did stall my writing. I am 1/8th Indian. My great grandfather was a full blood Indian, (Cherokee, I think) and because of the Native American experience, that part of me was lost/hidden in the mix of white blood. I know I will make my ancestors proud no matter what I do, simply because I exist, when so many blood lines died, but I also hope that people find a way to enjoy my story for what it is, fiction.
I would love to hear your thoughts Brown Girl Reading. Thanks for your videos. I enjoy watching.
+Tammy Gibaud Well Tammy it sounds like you're writing from your roots and that's got to count for something. How have Native Americans responded to your book? Did you do research to be able to write your Native American Indian warriors authentically?
Writing from my roots that are deep, strong and grounded, but hidden under layers or societies understanding of Indian's as whole blood existing in the past.
Mixing the blood line creates people like me and we are all over America.
I have not spoken with any full blood Indians about my book, but many, many part bloods who love the idea.
Research feels like an understatement. I have learned so much about my ancestors in the last four years. The truth of the past is heat breaking, but the fact that there is a potential of a future is wonderful. For full bloods and part bloods.
Yes I can relate to that because my daughters are mixed race. They will have to learn to navigate the difficulty of race relations even more now that they are older. Your voice is another minority that has been and being ignored. I wish you much success with your book. You should ask some YA Booktube readers who really read diversely to review your book. Good luck!
Because of your channel, I ordered a lot of the books that you recommended. I will let you know as I get to reading them.
+Debra Luciew Great! Happy reading!
frenchiedee Have you heard of Calling Home? I picked it up awhile ago and, as far as I understand, it's written by a white woman and the story's about a white woman and her love for a black man at a time that was not fondly looked upon.
Yes that's one of the books I'm hoping to check out.
Thank you, I really appreciate your thoughts. I read The Help when it came out and loved it but I have learned so much since then. I recently purged my personal collection of books about black history with white authors, and I had been rethinking my opinion on The Help. It's so important to be able to look back with an open mind. Did you ever make another video discussing the other books you mentioned?
I did find a book written by a white author that was excellent. I did a review in it. IT's called The Healing by Jonathan Odell.
Great, I will look up your review!
I just came across this video and thank you so much for posting this. I stuck out like a sore thumb among my friends for being the only one who didn't like the INVENTION OF WINGS - the writing felt incredibly forced and annoying and inauthentic (for the lack of a better word). I couldn't get beyond a 100 pages, which was when I found out that the author was white and it explained so much.
I'm glad you understood what I meant. Haven't read The In mention of Wings yet but it's on my TBR. After your critique it might slide further down the TBR now.
I read The Known World when it first came out so I don't remember all of the details but I would love to hear your thoughts on the novel once you've finished it! I haven't read The Help...and now pretty sure I'm not going to, LOL. I'm part Japanese and often have trouble getting through books that are about Japan that are filled with many mistakes and misconceptions...sigh... Thank you for this video!
So I quess I should leave Memoirs of a Geisha alone? That's what most people tell me. Like your thumbnail picture! :)
I'm afraid to touch that book...with a ten foot pole.
I really should at least try it but... I will let you know if I ever do read it!
(Books are my ruby shoes!)
Cute!
This was so awesome. I don't feel qualified to say anything, but I so enjoyed listening to your thoughts. I'm really excited to hear your follow up thoughts to this topic!
Thank you and hello Ariel! This topic seemed to spark a lot of controversary. More than I had imagined it would. I'm in the process of trying to read more books written by white authors about the black experience to really see if i can find one that is worthy. Usually I would shy away from them because of the magical Negro/White saviour thing, however I've decided to give a few of them a try. Will be back with a video on this probably next year. Thanks again for your comments!
Great White Hope syndrome! I thought so much about this particular issue and mentioned it in my video when I was reviewing Mudbound by Hillary Jordan. She was writing a story told about six characters...three black and three white. I was SOOOO interested in her presentation of the white characters because they rang truer of the time period than any I've ever read. So I can't judge how well she wrote the black characters and their experience, though I didn't see the tired tropes in her book that I see in others. But, for me, as a white girl growing up in the South, I think she did an honest job writing about white people who were not outwardly malicious toward black individuals but who were so saturated with the experience of the time that they couldn't escape their prejudices. I knew those people. Those were people in my family! And I had never seen that on paper. She didn't paint them in a manner that was heroic...just realistic. In their goodness and their terribleness. Does that make sense? Obviously this is an incredibly multifaceted and complicated issue, but I think it's important that people are thinking about it and discussing it openly and hopefully with a sharp sense of the analytical. I'm really pleased to see you mentioning The Known World. I have it sitting on my shelves and plan to read it this year. Once I'm reading anything again. In other words, when the wedding is DONE. :)
Well that's could to hear about Mudbound, which was another book that almost got picked for my book club. I should definitely check it out. Glad you understood what I meant. Have a very happy wedding! It's just around the corner. :)
frenchiedee Sorry, I'm full of comments today. This was an issue we talked about a lot in grad school, too. White professors who wanted to talk about/analyze books by authors of color found themselves in a pickle. Given, they wanted to write about these in scholarly realms and anlayze the ideology not only of the books themselves but of the cultural context now and then. It was considered suspect for a white prof to tackle black literature...or any other color/culture outside their own. I had a prof who looked "stereotypically Jewish" who "passed" in academia and studied Jewish lit, even though he was not in fact Jewish. What ended up happening for the white professors was a buzz word/play on words called "whiteness studies." And while I doubt it's caught on anywhere since it sounds terrible, it was basically the white professor being able to call out white privilege...even that which is hidden or overlooked and critique it in a number of types of literature. I guess it's all about presentation and how we perceive crossing these racial and ethnic lines for discussion purposes.
And apparently it's more of a thing than I realized! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteness_studies
What!?
my teacher is making us write stories about an african american slavery pov and we are basing it of a fake article about slavery and as a white person i feel very uncomfortable writing it and i don’t know what to do
This is an interesting video. Thanks for posting. It gives me some things to think about. I work with mostly African American teenagers and I'm sure there is a lot that I just don't understand despite thinking that I do get it.
Thanks! Sounds like an enriching work experience! :)
LOVE this video! You brought up points I have never thought of (including the points about the Help). Defiantly got me thinking! I was just wondering if you had any authors of color you would highly recommend. I just took a quick scan of my bookshelves and was sorely disappointed to find barely anything by authors of color. I like to think of myself as a diverse reader and I would love to read more authors of color!
Thanks! You can get some ideas from my review videos. Here are some Toni Morrison, Bernice L McFadden, Gloria Naylor, James McBride, Chimamanda
Ngozi Adichie, Richard Wright, James Baldwin, etc. Happy reading....
Thank You! I will definitely be checking them out and also checking out your reviews!
Thanks again for commenting!
The implication that someone can't write something just because they don't have any personal experience with it is extremely limiting in terms of creativity. Saying a white person can't write about a black persons life is the same as saying Herman Melville can't write about being a sailor because he himself was never an actual sailor, or Bret Ellis can't write about being a psychopath because he (debatably) isn't a psychopath. If we were to limit writers to the point were they can only write about experiences they can very directly relate to, we would live in a boring world full of Young Adult novels, where nothing that fantastic really happens.
+Colin Walsh I'm not saying they can't. they can if they want to but what they write isn't authentic. All you have to do is read one from both writers and you'll see that there is definitely something missing. If you're black you'll see that right away. If you're white you won't even notice that there is something wrong with the way black characters are portrayed. So yeah white writers can keep trying.... The problem I have is that white writers get more press than writer of color and that bothers me if they are portraying people of color incorrectly, henceforth, The Help which was a complete travesty literally ignoring the real plight of black people through a very difficult period. Comparing Melville's writing about a sailor or writers writing like a psychopath are not the same thing as portraying characters of color in novels. Thanks for watching and commenting!
I found this video really helpful. I've been trying to read more from authors of colour this year (thank you for you recommendations you and others have made in the comments, I will look them up), but I hadn't thought about how this ought to affect my writing as well.
I'm not a writer yet, but I would like to be one day, and I don't really know what to do about this in my work. I absolutely *do not* want my books to misrepresent the black experience, but I don't want to write stories that have only white characters, because that's really vile and shouldn't be a thing. Do you have any advice for writers who want to avoid misrepresenting people of colour, but also want to include diverse characters in their books?
Hi Hannah thanks for commenting. I'd suggest asking your black friends to take a look at your portrayal of your black characters.It would also depend on what time period you would be writing about. These are complex issues that should be looked at carefully. Characters don't necessarily have to be pointed out as being black for example. That is done almost all the time. What kinds of stories are you interested in writing?
Thanks for replying! At the moment I am writing short stories in almost every genre & setting that I think of (not horror or romance) just to improve my writing. The only thing I've written so far that I may potentially want to polish up and finish is a series of fictional letters written by a woman to her husband and children over about fifty years (starting in 1958) about various social and personal issues, especially relating to women's rights & and her struggle between wanting to be a good mum/wife and wanting to have a career and do something additional to housewifery. The story is set mostly in the UK.
Well that sounds very interesting!!! Good luck with the writing. I know it isn't easy. I already tried to do NaNoWriMo twice and boy was it hard.
Very interesting video. This is something I've always been curious about and I would love your advice. I write for young adults. But even as a white woman, I am getting tired of reading so many white bread stories. I feel like I would love to write a black character. Not necessarily as The main character, but an important character in the book. You spoke of common tropes : white person saves blacks. and blacks saved by magical mystical black person. I don't intend to write a historical book so I hope I can avoid those. But do you have any advice, things to do or things to avoid? I want to do the character justice and I don't want to subconsciously perpetuate any stereotypes.
Or would you discourage it completely?
+Hiba Howard-Lafoui people should stay in their lanes just saying.
I'm on the fence with this topic - You mentioned being offended when Charlie Rose asked Toni Morrison why she only wrote about black people. I also think it's a ridiculous question because as a Nobel Prize winning author, she can write anything she wants to and be great at it! Couldn't the same be said for non-black authors as well? I think it would be dangerous to say only write about you know; if you're white only write about white experiences, if you're black only write about the black experience etc. Because then what happens about sexual orientation or sex? Can women write about men? Can a gay individual write the straight experience? Would these points of view be considered "inauthentic"?
I don't have the answers - just more questions. But thank you for bringing up an important topic. I think this should be discussed more often.
+Rosalie Fichaud No one is saying that they shouldn't be allowed to but when they get it wrong it needs to be called out, which hardly ever happens. It's funny how when black authors write about the black experience there aren't many people running out to buy their books, however when a white author writes about that topic their books are beautifully published, given maximum publicity, and everybody is running out to buy it and read it. And when it doesn't add up properly no one calls it out as being bullshit. So yeah white writers can keep trying, while perpetuating stereotypes but I'm not here for that.
+Brown Girl Reading I think I misunderstood your original point. I thought the discussion was about whether it was even possible to write from someone else's point of view. But I agree, if it's poorly done or features stereotypes, it should be called out.
What about "Same Kind of Different As Me?"
What are your thoughts on To Kill a Mockingbird ?
I like that story but it does have the White Savior trope running through it.
very interesting video! You def brought up things i dont really think about as a white woman when i read a book. Like what race is the author and so on..Imma try to be more aware of that in the future
Just a thought because it always makes me wonder who the book was really written for.
I would baulk at seeing a book written about the black experience and noticing the author on goodreads was white. It makes me wonder if they had/have a step parent, say, who was black, or a friend who is and used that experience to write the novel. Even if something like that was the case, I still would grab a book by Gloria Naylor or James Baldwin. I have suffered depression a lot in my life and have wondered about authors who write a protagonist who is suffering depression, who may never have suffered that them self. Usually it's because they had a parent, or sibling, friend, child who suffered it. But still, it's a second-hand experience, and not the real thing. But, suffering depression can be had by all, no matter who you are, no matter your colour, race, gender, age, social standing, rich or poor. That's very different from the colour of your skin.
Why are you talking about mental illnesses
I'm sorry if I confused you as to why I mentioned it here. It's has been something I've considered a lot since I started reading early last year, as depression has played a fairly big role in my life. Watching this video made me think of it again, where an author may write a novel about something they haven't experienced.
I think what the reporter meant by that was "why is race a major theme in all your books?" Not that it's bad but it's interesting to understanding what inspires writing.
He would never have asked a white writer that question.
He probably would if race was a major theme in all their books...
Completely and totally agree.
Thank you for this video. I am going to make sure my son listens to this too. More people need to bring these issues to the forefront.
Thanks Kathleen! How old is your son?
The same thing happens with latinoamericans, even when a latinoamerican author writes historical fiction about a latinoamerican country that he or she doesn't belong.
I also think Latino American Lit is largely ignored as well. Who do you enjoy reading? Recommendations please. :)
Very interesting discussion! Will need to check those books!
By the way, your hair looks amazing....!
Thanks!
This is so interesting... I think about things like that a lot, but in my case is with men writing about women... So many times i feel like they don't get it. And ok, women writing about men too.
And have you read Beloved by Toni Morrison? I see so many people talking that they didn't understand the book, that it was weird and all. But i didn't think so, and now i think that everyone of them were white (but i'm white too). Maybe it has something to with it?
Waiting for the next video :)
You should check out The supremes at Earl's All-You-Can-Eat. I'm reading it at the moment and he's really done the female voices well so far.
You raised a lot of good points. This is a verry good and informative vid.
Interesting video! I honestly had never really thought about this subject and I'm also not entirely sure if I've ever even read a book by a black author. Which is shocking, I'll need to resolve that this year.
But playing devils advocate here, both contemporary black authors and white authors have the same amount of experience of living in the slavery days and the early 1900's as each other. Like.. Would a black author living today have a better ability of writing about the "black experience" of slavery than a white author? Even if neither even lived or experienced that?
I dunno, I supose that point only holds up depending on what time periods the authors set their stories in.
Great video, maybe I was being a little nitpicky but I pretty much agree haha.
No that's a valid comment and you're going to stretch the discussion cool! Yes that's true what you said about black and white authors living today however preconceived notions of what black people may have felt or assumptions and stereotypes somehow manage to creep in. There's also the fact that slavery is basically skimmed over in school and the same titles are sited as having read about Jim Crow, slavery, and racism, ex. To Kill a Mockingbird, Uncle Tom's Cabin,... Have you received your book yet?
frenchiedee Yes I have! I got it a few days ago and it arrived in perfect condition, thank you very much :)
And yeah, I can totaly see where you're coming from. I don't think we even learnt about slavery in Portugal. It was mentioned but never really talked about in deph. It's a shame really.
Great! enjoy and I hope you do an honest review on it! ;)