ALLOYTEC V6 PROBLEMS. What They are and How To Avoid Them (Timing chains, PCV)
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- čas přidán 7. 08. 2024
- Before you buy a car (or if you already own one!) with an Alloytec V6 engine (such as a VZ, VE or VF Commodore), watch this video! I will discuss the good the bad and the ugly issues facing the Alloytec engine.
The GM alloytec engine was released in 2004, and was extensively used by Holden in the Commodore and other vehicles, as well as the Cadillac in the USA.
But is it a good engine? In this video we have a look at what the engine is all about, the good points... and the not so good.
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As with all videos on this channel, information contained in this video is for entertainment purposes only. A trained and licensed mechanic should be the only person working on your vehicle. Information or Works carried out in this video may not be applicable to yours, so please do not replicate this without advise from your mechanic to save injury for yourself or someone else.
#alloytech #holden #commodore #holdencommodore - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Hands up how many of you have had to replace timing chains in these engines
Twice at work, when I first started at holden my perception on alloytecs changed a lot, they’re really not so bad as what everyone says...think some issues start from lack of maintenance and/with constant flogging. IMO
Haven't owned any myself, but have had the experience of helping a person with using a fire extinguisher on one.
930k Barra owner.
@@wobblysauce Want a medal?
@@rhycemg Not at all, Fire services replace what is used for free, for the assistance.
Never! still going strong as new👍
Got a SV6 HS 2010 VE Sportswagon 108,000 timing chains etc went shortly after I had bought it. No one would do it , and the ones that would said a week and A$4,000. Cost me A$1200 in parts and 3 days under the car port on ramps. I am 64 and did the job perfectly from a CZcams video. Cheers from Perth
TF 1200 innparts? not us dollars is it? never heard ifnit being that much.
@@darinr9424 When doing this job there is a whole bunch of extra gaskets etc , about A$170 and for timing chain kit just over A$1100. It is a fiddly job but I managed it with a good CZcams video on the subject with no errors or problems later on. I am 64.
What was it on ramps for? The vzs ive got, cost $600 for genuine chains, $40 for coolant, $30 for sealant. job done
@@Knackersjewels HS2 VE 2010 SV6 is way more expensive to fix. Just as a side note in size comparison to a 302 V8 , the HS2 V6 is bigger.
@@fliptop62deceived95 Hey Mate.Do you remember which youtube video you watched?Would love to watch it as i need to do mine real soon.Also which kit did you buy?cheers.👍
Owned a 2005 VZ 3.6 for 10 years bought with 100,000 but now with quarter of a million. Besides new alternator, starter motor (a Mitsubishi part ironically) and water pump plus gasket (all DIY and affordable). It's been hugely reliable while being powerful, smooth and economical. The amount of flack I copped from owning an Alloytec especially regarding timing chains and I'm constantly setting people straight, an unfairly maligned engine and surprisingly solid unit
Lmao every mechanic in the country will tell u the alloytec is a shitbox
My work has a VE Holden Caprice with the 3.6 right now, and it has a whopping 820,000 kilometres on the speedo. I was so surprised to see it still running, and in actual good condition.
WOW....Obviously been really looked after.
Holy crap! That is so refreshing to hear being an owner.of an LFX engined car. The highest I've seen is 460000km on a caprice taxi. 820k is nuts!
Yeah my brother had wm Statesman with the high output V6 flogged the guts out it, drive on big road trips eg:Sydney to Great Ocean Rd ,Snowy mountains etc..the only issue the electrical thermostat slammed shut & made piss coolant but otherwise great car!
820,000ks on the speedo holy shit balls lol
@Baker 8 nope quite as & silky smooth, main thing is regular oil change with not to thin of oil 10w 40 is good for push rod motors but also maybe the timing chain is at the end of its line
But wait... There's more: Consumers demanded unrealistic fuel economy from Holden. So, the Alloytec was programmed to run crazy lean. Sadly, a lean mixture is a hot mixture & it's this higher running temperature that bakes the oil on all the internal surfaces inside our beloved Alloytec engines. If you've ever used an oxy acetylene cutting torch you'll know how hot a lean mixture really is. Every time an Alloytec reaches it's goal operating temperature it bakes another layer of fried oil onto all the fixed internal metal surfaces like on the heads, under the cam covers, inside the chain boxes & in the valley. To make matters massively worse, some oils like "Magnatec" leave a residue coating on engine parts. This is helpful & desirable on many older engines, but murderous to an Alloytec. After hundreds of cycles of heat & rest the baked oil forms a "biscuit" coating all through the guts of the Alloytec. Eventually slabs of it curl off, break away, fall into the sump & block the oil pump pickup screen. Hey Presto!... engine starts & runs OK. After 10 minutes the biscuit crumbs are pulled into the screen until it is completely clogged. Engine warning light comes on. This is, sadly a pisspoor clue that your engine has no oil pressure. The only other clue is the engine rattles it's guts out. The only way to deal with it is to remove the engine, open it up, chemical clean ALL the biscuit out of every nook & cranny, cut the too small screen off the pickup & weld or braze on a substantially larger screen like you find on an old 202 or early 308. And, of course, talk to a chemical engineer within Castrol or your chosen oil supplier & ONLY use an oil that doesn't bake into biscuit in a hot modern engine. The Ecotec which was replaced by the Alloytec is actually a much more economical engine in the long run. Simply because it does not fail in service, will reliably work like a dog for a MILLION kilometres & even though it uses a fraction more fuel, it doesn't require hideously expensive cam drive rebuilds or premature strip downs & clean outs. So, if you have a good VS VT VX or VY, LOOK AFTER IT! Because these are without doubt some of the best, most economical, most durable most practical & most civilized cars ever made anywhere on this planet. PS: You can change the oil in an Alloytec twice a week if you like. That won't help you if the oil you change into your engine bakes into biscuit. Find the RIGHT OIL. Then change the oil & filter yourself, or only have your oil changed by someone who cares. Do most mechanics profit from your expensive breakdowns & repairs? Get the right oil & make sure that that is the only oil tipped into your engine. Lastly: The Alloytec is a fabulous engine. It also can run for a MILLION Ks. However, you'll have to be a tad more vigilant & attentive to avoid the expensive problems.
Basically
Yes ecotechs, barras and intechs, go forever
everything runs lean now nothing to do with customers its more EPA regulations.
Is mobil 1 fully synthetic oil the answer mobil techline rave about their product
@@Eric-kn4yn Any full synthetic with Dexos
Love my alloytec, as stated maintenance is key to ANY good engine.
I've seen barra engines snap camshafts in half due to oil pressure issues from lack of scheduled maintenance.
CZcams recommended this video to me. Very well presented and edited. Good work.
Just purchased this engine in a 2012 Buick LaCrosse in the States with 33500 mi. and what appears to be a comprehensive service history of documented oil replacements (however the quality of oil used cannot be affirmed). Within a week of ownership I enlarged the orifices of the pcv valve (and added two more) and installed a catch can, which captured a shot glass-worth of oil within three weeks. The engine is quite refined and makes impressive power and she will receive a supply of fresh oil every 3000 miles come what may. The sword hanging above my head when driving the Buick prevents me from driving like a hooligan, but knowing the power is there and ample is quite reassuring. No major mods planned except a tune and perhaps a catback exhaust. Thank you for the information Broomy; we in America appreciate your diligence.
I had a VE S2 Sv6 from brand new had all services and I beat on that motor every where it went and never let me down.
Completely agree . Had a VE2 SV6 manual for 3 years 95000km of HARD driving and didn't once leave me stranded on the side of the road. Now own a tuned VF sv6 with 91000km absolutely nothing has gone wrong with it not even a globe has gone out . Absolutely rock solid vehicles these commodores are..
Your both so full of shit.😁
@@tommiraeko8541 i know my VE breaks all the time lmao
@@WOGBOY
Good name.
So mate, SV6 is reliable??
I bought my 2009 VE SV6 in 2011 when it had 50,000kms on the clock. It now has 307,000kms on the clock and it’s never let me down nor has it had any major items replaced, only normal service items. The transmission (automatic) has just started to be an issue but that’s probably to be expected with that many kilometres on it (I never babied it at all so 300,000kms is probably a fairly good run for the transmission).
I do get the timing chain rattle on really cold mornings (below 5 degrees) for a couple of seconds before the oil gets to the tensioners but I expect this is to do with the viscosity of the oil rather than an issue with the timing chain as it’s never thrown any codes related to the chains.
People give the Commodores a bad rap for being unreliable but I’ve owned many of them over the years (VH x 2, VN, VS, VT and my current cars, the VE SV6 and VE SSV) and they have all generally been very reliable even though I’ve not been particularly sympathetic to them mechanically.
R.I.P Holden.
Hi mate, I’m a bit late here.
What gearbox is in your VE?
Cheers
@@Anthony-fq9ct My SV6 has the 5L40E in it (5 speed auto). Being the weakest auto transmission ever fitted to a Commodore it’s probably had a fairly good innings. I don’t drive the SV6 anymore so I’m thinking of keeping it for spare parts to use on my SSV as lack of spare parts are going to become an issue down the track.
Cheers mate.
I believe the VE SV6 has a manual shift mode as well. How did that go for you from your experience?
Cheers
yeah ya got a thumbs up and new subscriber Broomy. Knowledgeable content and intelligent script, the facts borne out by logic and comparison with other knowledgeable fellas like yerself. I got two Rodeo V6's. Its a bit dark outside now but tomorrow morning when its light the PCV comes off and I start looking for some detergent oil. Thanks mate. Mozzman
Excellent engine - made supercharger kits for them - 10psi -400rwhp and ultra reliable too - never had one blow ever
400rwhp with a v6? That’s mad
Bought one and Yep! facts and straight forward info... much appreciated Thx
I love the engine. I have never liked v6's either. It does seem that forgot about how to design a PCV system. BTW, a lot of sludge come from not letting the engine reach operating temp.Condensation doesn't have a chance to evaporate, mixes with the oil vapor and you get a nice layer of sludge
I’ve heard so many stories. The most reliable one coming from a mechanic at my local Holden dealer. He said “we really don’t see many come in, the only ones we’ve seen are early VE’s with 350,000kms that have been flogged to death. We did used to get more of the VZ’s though, they were a big fail”
The stories are just blown out of proportion. So much so that people think they're trash and should've kept the ecotec 3800. But your story is the reality. A service advisor at my work actually said we get more SS commodores in for repairs then the V6's . Also know a GM gold master tech quite literally one of the best GM mechanics ON EARTH swears by the V6's .
To get a master tech that's won the GM technician guild in Dubai which is the pinnacle of GM training 4 times in a row say the V6's are very reliable is enough for me !
2012 Series II VE SV6 Bought in 2013 with 36,000. Now has 328,000. Still performing well. No timing chain issues. Regularly serviced @ 15,000km intervals. Engine has had no issues.
Once the original low grade timing chain has been replaced with a quality part, as well as servicing adjusted to 10k intervals instead of the Holden recommended 15k, this is a great engine
i have a holden v6, your video helped me a lot and was very informative, good job
Great video mate will be following you for more great content
Love the Alloy tech. Revs so quick! Heard quicker than the 8s. Corners like a dream.
Bought mine recently and the bloke did a stellar job on the exhaust note, and had added a few ssv upgrades. I chucked in a K&N air filter for now and it's sweet. a few other mods I have in mind but an alteration to the PCV valve I've heard to help filter oil. by drilling it's ports slightly bigger top and bottom.
Very good video, out of the four alloytec commodores i know, two of the four after 220,000kms have needed timing chains which were both the 175kw motor where both the 195kw motors are still running after 240,000kms as they both get serviced every 5,000kms which is key
My 3,0 litre has been rattling on start up for 190,000k and is still going.
Rattle started at 60,000 klms the car now has 250,000k.
Great video. I have a Cadillac with this engine and I'm about to check the pcv and the chain asap. Very glad I change the oil every 3k miles.
Just did the timing chains in my vz wagon, was a prick of a job but she runs like new now 😁 got just over 400xxx on the motor, gearbox, diff and dash cluster all genuine 👍
I owned 2 VZ’s and 3 VE’s with the LY7 and currently have a VE with the LFX V6 and they have all been great! Regular oil changes with quality oil have been the key. Only 1 of the VZ’s needed timing chains as it wasn’t too well serviced by the old owner. Although the LFX V6 with the 6sp auto is much smoother drive!
Incredibly helpful video, thank you.
Great video mate.
Love the out takes. Thanks
Yes! Haha. I'm liking this format! Backwards hat 👍🏽
Hey Broomy, I have a conversion that you won’t ever thought of an Alloytec LEO into a 1984 fj40 Landcruiser! Complete with the 4L60E auto.
The engine came from the pride and joy of a retired gentleman, a wagon that was tee boned at 30,000 k. Looked like new, he must have had regular services. I have changed the oil every 10,000k, no timing change noise at all, runs so sweet .
I have fitted a PCV valve in place of the plug with little holes in it and fitted a catch can. I don’t see how a fixed size orifice can clean out “ fumes” at different throttle openings as a trusty old PCV valve does. Let’s see if this keeps it clean.
The old ‘cruiser has been to the cape twice from south NSW and many more off road adventures, engine is so sweet.
See CZcams “mr Landcruiser “ it’s on there.
Have you got a link to the youtube video on your cruiser?
Excellent presentation, well done.
Vy has done 350000km still going strong just replaced sparks coils engine mount manual swapped still going strong 💪
@@wagz79 ahaha I’m aware mate
Thanks for the informative vid with a good mix of humour and sarcasm throughout :-).
I was just speaking with a bloke this morning about how his VE v6 was going, and then magically, this v6 video is suggested. The Universe works in mysterious ways.
I just bought a 06' STS with the LY7 3.6 and only just heard of all these issues but my car has good power, and I baby it. I plan on doing an oil change now tomorrow cause you guys! :P
Do the PCV mod also.
Glad to hear it's not all bad for the alloytech. Since my VZ wagon had a "heart transplant" ie 90K old alloytech in 350K + car, it has run like a beauty and can get up and go when asked nicely. (Gearbox is 435K old )
I'm on my third alloytec now, awesome engine, serviced at 5000km = no problems, first one was sold at 220,000km, second at 245,000 and the current one at 278000km and still going strong
Ive had 2 falcon ba/bf from 70,000. Now at 245,000...5 oil changes, still going.
mines at 350000, serviced once a year
listen to this man. He speaks the truth. I should know, I just had these issues sorted on my Alloytec motor. Do it or suffer the consequences.
Fantastic video, I’ve been saying the same for years to people on Facebook pages claiming ecotec’s are better than LY7’s. People need to
Educate themselves. If properly maintained these motors last a lot longer.
Wouldn't have to drop oil every 5k on a v6 workhorse engine just to keep it running. ecotec is better as is the barra and v6 from magna and aurion.
My 91 cavalier is getting an lf3! Super pumped to start the build!
Da Broom dawg is back.
the LY7 in my 2005 STS has been holding up well. 136k miles, no severe issues other than regular maintenance.
I'm on top of the oil, always taking care of the engine and having it breathe. This video is really helpful!
I just picked up an 06' STS4 AWD with the LY7 in it and I'm happy has good torque and power but I'll be doing oil change tmrw now :P
Love the Alloytec engine, like any engine regular maintenance is essential. I wanted to fit one to my HQ and here the problems started. Finding a aftermarket parts is hard, finding someone to modify a harness finding someone to remove the VATS from the original computer and on it goes. I was even thinking of fitting a carbie to one or a Holley Sniper, even contacted Haltech about an ECU they were not that interested. So just gave up and put the 202 back in. I am sure that if enough people took an interest in this engine we could get engine swaps done without selling the family farm. I have a shed full of them and a few HQs as well, might even get one in my EJ but untill the technical stuff is done it won't happen.
Great information loved it
ive had a vz crewman since 2005 done 475000 km and it still runs as it should and allways serviced it,still get 550 to a tank and still got alot of power to my mechanics amazment
I have a 2010 VE 3ltr Sportwagon, I did the mod for the breather valve which lets the engine breath much better. Simple to do and can avoid a lot of pain.
Great advice,looking to buy one of these with 90,000km on the clock.
have a vf ute sv6 series 2 manual with the LFX, got mine with 67,000kms last year, racked up over 50,000kms in the year that I've had it and shes still going fine not 1 hickup, has plenty of power for an NA v6, gets up to speed much better than the old VX I had and I wont lie I treat the VF pretty rough, have a bit of fun in the paddock and drive it a little too rough but always service it every 8,000kms to be safe
I've had 3 VZs now. No problems at all. The oil gets changed every 5000 ks. As my daily driver I can't complain.
Fuel economy?
@@Smoked_5L brilliant, its part of what theyre known for after all
@@Smoked_5L Best i've seen from a 6.... ran around 2-3 weeks with one tank while driving with a lead food
Thank you. Never missed a service, but I think it's time for a new timing chain. Bought it off a mechanic too.
Yes, I’ve just changed my sv6 timing chains, and it appears that the new chains has a additional link and a different set up, also I drilled out the pcv valve as per the forum’s I’ve been watching, and I’ve put in the oil from gm and I will be doing the servicing at every 7k not any more than that.
It’s running like a charm now, but ya keep on top of the servicing . 👍🏼
got one recently, seems good and sound pretty good too. no troubles yet
Great clip! So well said. :)
Thumbs up done. Well said mate👌🏾
Thank you for this video. I love my VZ wagon.
Well said Bro. I just got a VE Berlina v6 2006 it has been serviced it's whole life and never done a chain. It has done 311'000. I wouldn't even be pissed if it done one now.
Subscribed and loved. I was like 995 and the 311st comment. Im a Kiwi Ford guy who does US Soc Med and has a wife who only drives Toyotas or Suzukis. A Karen Rebel. Anyway, the problems are just 24 valve OHC chain driven V6 problems. My 1998 Explorer took 31 hours to do chain guides and replacement. You Holden guys dont know how great the AlloyTech is. Sad day for Australia when the last one was exported. Its better than a Barra, but any thing V6 with 6 feet of Hells Angle chain is gonna need periodic service. And Way to Wear a Cap Broomy. Churrrr!
Full synthetic oil is the key, if you’re to tight to use it then it will cost you in the end.
...it's not that much more expensive either, I like the PENRITE HPR 5 5W 40 full synthetic for my 2006 VZ Acclaim and change it every 8k-10k kms with Ryco filter.
The Penrite website says: "HPR 5 is a premium, Full Synthetic SAE 5W-40 Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) warranty, Fully Licensed/approved engine oil. It features a DOUBLE LAYER of engine wear protection with FULL ZINC and Penrite's advanced EXTRA TEN technology. It uses a combination of the latest Additive technology and a low shear rate viscosity modifier, to ensure additional protection against wear, corrosion, oxidation, piston deposits and sludge under tough conditions.
HPR 5 is designed for use in modern 4, 6 & 8+ cylinder multi-cam, multi-valve (including VVT), naturally aspirated, supercharged & turbocharged engines.
HPR 5 is recommended for use in vehicles where SAE 5W-30 or SAE 10W-30 or SAE 5W-40 engine oils were originally recommended by the manufacturer.
Benifits EXTRA TEN provides an EXTRA LAYER of engine protection
• FULL ZINC Additive package for superior engine wear protection
• LATEST oil technology for less wear, sludge & piston deposits
• OEM Approved to maintain manufacturers warranty & Specifications
• API TESTED and REGISTERED for quality guarantee assurance
• GREATER engine protection than 5W-30 grade oils
• Less Oil Consumption compared to 5W-30 oils
• Longer engine Life
• Reduced high temperature engine deposits
• Longer Synthetic oil life
• Reduces wear by controlling engine deposits
• Better start up protection ."
@@bradford_shaun_murray I've got a 2005 crewman bought new, don't know what oil was used while under warrantee, but I've always used the cheapest full synthetic I could buy. Either 5w 30 or 10w 40. I've even used cheap 10w 40 I bought from Kmart a couple of times. lol. I do my oil chane june of every year so I think I can ge away with it. Also lucky to do 10,000 Ks a year now. For 16 years of owning the car it's on 206,000 that's about 12,000ks a year.
Mobil techline state mobil 1 extended life to 1year no problems but service Filter as per Manual I guess ?
Good stuff mate thank you. Yep i have a baby blue sikver Acclaim, replaced so much..plugs oil press sensor starter, ignition barrel , radiator cap fan 2 sensor..took her on a 1.5hr run to brizzie..just serviced...power train comes on...then on way back didnt handle congestion got hot switched her off just under half temp, plenty water n oil...back to the mech who serviced her 7 days ago...shes well kept...it is driving me nuts slowly things go wrong, but she definately zooms when feeling well has a bit of a shudder or misfire over 110...oops..doesnt like me puttin my foot down...Id rather keep tinkering away shes so cute. Thanks maaate good vid x
Bought a 2004 VZ SV6 with 159,000ks on it from a local car yard, which l thought had been well maintained. First major service l had my mechanic change filters/fluids and check everything, all seemed well. Went on holiday which was a 1000k round trip and the engine developed a miss and the thermostat decided to shit itself simultaneously. l paid for all the repairs and quickly sold it off, and bought a 2002 VY ecotec automatic with 195,000ks on it and have spent money wisely on maintenance and have had no trouble with this vehicle. Fuel economy on a highway trip is 7.9ltrs/100 and is greatly assisted with Pacemaker extractors and an 02 Rush Hi flow air filter. l always use Nulon full synthetic oils and the engine loves it. l also own a 2001 VU Series 2 ute with ecotec ( dual fuel ) and 5 speed and it has done a lot of towing by previous owner with 300,000ks on it, yet the motor still seems fresh and drives well. So with my experiences l can honestly say the Ecotec is by far a better choice if you want a motor that has less problems!!
A very good and objective video. I have had a VZ Commodore for nearly 10 years with an LE0 code engine that has just ticked over 250,000km. I haven't had any timing chain issues and I had always serviced it as per the log book every 15,000km, and my car is on gas. After the log book finished I change oil and filter every 10,000km myself. After major oil leaks from the rocker covers I pulled off I found the drivers side of the cylinder head had gunked up due to the narrow PCV valve, but the other side had hardly any. I have mainly had electronics problems with mine with ignition coils a few times, but have since gone away after I bought ignition coils from Mace Engineering solved that. However in May 2020 my ECU was completely fried and I could not start my car at all for 2 weeks, and had to get a second hand one from a wrecker reprogrammed. I knew all the stories on the net about timing chain issues with mainly the LY7 code engines from the VZ SV6's and VE Commodores with stretching of timing chains, but the ECU failure happened completely out of the blue. It is a good motor and does have decent power and performance, but the electronics have been the biggest let down for me. Even other car companies with variable valve timing V6 engines have had stretched timing chain issues, so this isn't just unique to GM. Also could the engine having 3 separate timing chains be causing this issue by the design? Given inline 6 engines only use the one timing chain?
My VE S2 SIDI 3.6 LLT SV6 had the ecu die about 6 months after I bought it. Also unexpected. With mine almost from day one, giving it a bit of a caning at the lights or any sort of hard driving and the car would start running badly and eventually go into limp mode. And towards the end, if you drove the car longer than 10 minutes and then parked and went back after say a half hour the car wouldn't start. But with variations. Sometimes totally utterly stone dead, and you'd have to keep turning the key between off, accessories and on to finally get a dash full of warning codes and dinging warning chimes and a flashing check engine light. Other times it would fire OK but run like a bloody mongrel dog and again be dinging its head off and flashing warning codes all over the place. Putting a scan tool on it wasn't helpful because the dying computer would often fuck with the OBD port and the scan tool mostly wouldn't even find the computer. I started paying more attention to all the warning codes after a bit of a drive, and one I noticed would always come up even if others came and went randomly. This was the internal ROM error, and was about the only direct clue I got that it was definitely an electronics problem and more than probably the engine computer. The battery voltage was always good at about 13v at rest and just over 14.4 with engine running. I think just having the ecu in the engine bay not far from the radiator and jammed in with the fuse box with not much air flow and the heat sources of a radiator and engine itself nearby isn't wonderful for a healthy long life. The car basically became useless unless you only needed to go five or six kays down the road, so I stopped driving it for a month or two until I could afford to get it fixed. I took it to Holden. They didn't take any notice of my suspicion of the engine computer being RS and treated me like some dumb cunt. The bloke just said they need to run full diagnostics and that will be $110 bucks. I said but yeah it gives the internal ROM error plus on the one or two times I got the OBD port to cooperate it gave a fault code consistent with a fucked computer. He just insisted they needed to run the test themselves in that arrogant ignorant way people in shops and stuff generally do these days. Surprise surprise it was the engine computer. The prat at the counter didn't even blink when he said we've discovered the ecu has failed. Didn't even slightly acknowledge that I had already said that's what the problem was and ignored me when I said yes I know that I just told you . You didn't need to waste $110 bucks to tell me what I already know. Really it's no wonder all the shops and stuff have zero tolerance for customers shouting at staff these days, because so many people in shops, banks, petrol stations, in fact nearly any public facing role are absolute cockheads and need punching at the very least. So obviously these policies were made to protect these jerks. Anyway replaced the engine computer. Problem fixed. For a while. Then the car started misfiring really badly under load. Like for example putting the boot in when in sixth gear (manual gearbox) on the freeway to go around a slow car doing 80 kays in a 110 zone and the car would shudder and buck and jerk like a spastic and just sit there not doing much. I didn't go back to the pricks at Holden. The obvious thing to look at was the coils and spark plugs. And meanwhile the car became more and more undriveable until one Sunday arvo after a slightly stupid 10 minute drive the car took four or five cycles of the lights to clear an uphill intersection without stuttering and dying. Eventually with lots of revs and lots of clutch slipping the car limped home doing barely 30 kays an hour. Lucky home was less than a kay away. So once again it was off the road for nearly a month while I tracked down some good coils and plugs for a good price on eBay then waited a few more weeks for the stuff to arrive. And finally! For the first time in just under a year of owning the bloody thing you could now give it a boot full off the line, hammer it hard or leave it in sixth and pull away on the highway without it having a tantrum. It was finally fairly good to drive. So yes, for me the electronics were the troublesome thing on that car. I sold it after about 14 months. Too flaky. Plus I hated the manual gearbox on the SV6. Which was shit compared to the Tremec on the V8's. Nice handling on a winding road though. But the engine did not feel anything like 210 kw of power, and didn't really go much harder than a V6 Magna I'd had beforehand with 'only' 140kw. Yep the Alloytec was nothing special at all. And it was thirsty.
@@jasonsanders3397Very informative. I'm gonna order some coil packs. Thank you 😅
You got it right without the opinion piece. I bought an Alloytec and it was so noisy I thought the motor was cactus. Pulled off the rocker covers to find not sludge but carbon half way to becoming diamonds. The top end wasn’t getting any oil. Scrape, scrape, clean. Then I was going to pull off the sump but couldn’t be arsed. Put in 1 litre of Liqui Moly three times the recommended dose, covered the cams in moly grease topped it up with cheap oil and removed the oil filter, I had to scrape that housing out as well. Started and ran it for 10 min one or twice a week for about three weeks. I still can’t believe it but all the shit was removed and it’s been great. Cam chains were replaced a few weeks before I got it. A happy ending but I don’t know how I fixed it. Got to be Liqui Moly engine flush plus, molybdenum grease and time. Also drill out the PCV valve to the full diameter of the steel fitting. Cheers
Impressed with the video you know your stuff
spot on good video
great video
I’m on my second alloytec, 1st was a VZ SV6 190,000km it was noisy on start up. Signs of sludge build up. I switched of synthetic oil and changed it every 5000km. My new car is 2011 ve sv6 series 2. 90,000km full service history, no funny noises. I’m serving every 7500kms and have drilled out the pcv same as the camaro guys do. Increasing crank case ventilation. Also about to fit air oil separator to stop build up on back of the valves.
My first ever Alloytec experience was when I worked for a holden dealer many years ago. The VZ had just come out, and one of the detailers drove a VZ from the washbay to the workshop saying the engine was making a funny noise, as we were looking over the idling engine, it stopped with a bang. Siezed solid. Turned out there was some crap in the engine from manufacture that blocked the oil feed and caused the main bearings to run dry and spin. I have been suss on them since.....and they sound like abslute poop with a 'performance' exhaust on them.
the oil pressure light must not have been working either or he wasn't looking at the dash.
Absolute poop is right. A cow farting with bad projectile diarrhea. One of the worst sounding cars with a 'zaust ever. Only good thing about it is that in 2022 most of the farty pieces of shit have blown up or died in some way so you don't have to hear them anymore.
V6 Calais. I replaced my rear mufflers with factory ss mufflers. Cheap and did make a difference with no drone. Not a big difference overall but definitely a better note.
That "if I bet 5 million dollars" shit had me laughing and liking the vid straight away!
Just picked up a Free Crewman tonight, and this was perfect. no rattle on start but has a misfire, runs drives and stops, im pretty happy right now.
Are you on the crewman enthusiast page on Facebook?
@@troyc2773 no I have just used forums to research
Misfires are actually the start of timing chain issues lmao 😂 you sure you researched the issue enough ?
@@iamasmurf1122 yeah got it sorted. wouldnt be surprised if timing chain goes soon though it was flogged.
Just resealed the timing cover (that's another Alloytec problem ) on my sons VZ at 240k kms, internals not too gunky and the chain adjusters protruding maybe 12ish mm, was pleasantly surprized, I think 10,000 kms is a good oil change interval,
One of the easiest timing chains to replace out of all the cars i've worked on alloytechs with direct injection ltt/lfx are the most efficient v6 you will ever see better on fuel then 2.0l turbo golfs out on the highway a good one will get into 6 l per100ks range and under 10 around town while making almost the same power as early ls1's not hard to get 200+ rwkw from them with a muffler delete in the centre and changed rear muffler and a panel filter and tune. formula holden had alloy techs at over 350kw N/A on the ly7 motors. Biggest issue is loss of oil pressure due to either low oil in the sump or oil passages block due to carbon build up from lack of oil changes or blocked pcv's other issue well set up ve will pull oil away from pickup and spin bearings through hard corners just like the ls and falcon inline 6's.
The PCV orifice needs drilling out, well covered in the US as modification to LLT motors, taking what was learnt and applied to later LFX engines by GM R&D and doing it to the LY7 was an experiment I did, I drilled mine out top and bottom to match the dimensions of the LFX PCV /HFV6 mod. VZ also have undersized Clean Air Tube from intake duct (post maf) to passengers side rocker cover - on VE it is larger to allow more flow in WOT/reverse Crankcase ventilation (e.g. non idle/cruise conditions)
The PCV mod is a must do for every Alloytec powered car. It costs nothing but an hour of someone’s time. Prevents oil leaks and oil build up in the ocean brake plenum. Combined with using correct grade oil, PCV mod, regular 5000-7500km oil changes, timing chains will be a non issue.
I saw that oil filter you showed, yuk, mine looks nothing like this, omg I'm glad I service at the right intervals
I purchased my car in great condition with 215,000km on the clock. Full service history too.
10,000km later I’m getting the timing chains replaced.
The problem is that 15,000km services with good oil is NOT enough. From brand new an owner needed to remove the PCV valve, drill out the holes to a larger diameter, install an oil catch can and then change the oil and filter every 7,500km.
That is the only way to make sure the engine will stay good and have a long life - but the regular owner wasn’t told by Holden that they needed to do all of this. If you look at holdens service schedule - the Fault in the PCV and absence of a factory catch can - it’s obvious that Holden didn’t know this either (at least until they chances the specification of the PCV hole size on the LFX).
Hey Robbo what's an oil catch-can mate ... or what does it look like? (Link?) I got the drum about the oil-change frequency and drilling out the PCV (on both my Rodeo V6's) It seems like small potatoes for a big benefit. Thanks. Best MozzfromOz
How did you know you had to replace the timing chains, what symptoms were the car showing?
i bought a 2004 vz commodore for $1800 deceased estate with full logbook service history 180ks , i inspected the timing chain when i serviced it seemed fine. did the pcv mod and regular oil changes and never had any timing chain problems. Had trouble with the electrics/computer so got rid of it
We own a VZ Adventra with the LE0 and we have always serviced it and even left a few months untouched due to lack of use still started first kick they’re a great engine when looked after
thank you for sharing the video
The start was the best part
I agree with what you say 100% in terms of the timing chains but in saying that I've been pretty lucky with mine. My 2010 VE Omega has 320,000 km on it and the timing chain and camshaft have only just started to play up for the last 5,000 km. I do not drive it anymore as she's not my daily and I don't have the 3 grand as of yet to replace the chain but I will admit changing the oil and the filter ourselves is cheaper but that's probably the only reason the chain hasn't gone yet. Not to mention she was written off by a roo in 2018 and cracked the radiator so we replaced it and 2 years later, no overheating issues.
Goat performance makes this engine a Monster!!! Insane power!!!!
Thats 6 cylinders and two turbos lol! That's why
I have a manual 04 vz ute 405000 on the motor, started to use a bit more fuel and was loosing engine braking so changing it out, it's been a good motor. I also have a good alloytec and 6 speed manual going in a KE 55 corolla
Mine came up with a warning light just after I bought it with 100,000 ks but the warning sensor was the problem! Whew.
I've done 200,000 now trouble free. I change the oil every 5,000. Thanks for your advice I'm going to change the pcv valve.
Good engine and you got it right! Regular maintenance is key!! I have an 2006 VZ with over 300,000 on it's original timing chains. Serviced every 5000 with 5w 30 penrite oil and regular clean of the pcv ( also drilled out the holes slightly bigger) also I've never thrashed the car which obviously helps the engine haha
Hey mate, great to hear! How often are you cleaning the pcv?
I'm more inclined to ask how big a holes and how long ago (pcv). I've been looking in to it but my carburettor restorer friend has advised me not to.
Is it a good idea to do mate?
I have a 2010 Sidi 3.0 and I can’t fault the boat
It’s a solid reliable rig that has seen heaps of kms on freeway and also country roads loaded to the hilt with family crap
We service this regularly and have a complete history of the services
It’s got 132,xxx kms and never had any issues with timing chain slap or any issues other then a dud battery
I 1000% agree that good clean oil and reg Matinence is the key to reliability.. good video mate :)
Hmmm, but 132,000 km isn't much You'd expect any car to be fine with such a low mileage And it sounds like it's been owned by you its whole life so that's also an advantage Get a 250,000 km one that's had 3 or 4 owners with no certainty or continuity of maintenance (actually quite normal) and these engines are big trouble. And the point here is that other engines made by other companies that suffer the same abuse and neglect can and do survive without major lasting issues. The example I have of this is a 2007 Hyundai i30 that i bought with 315,000 km up as a cheap bomb to drive around. I did the online revs check and the car had suffered a major spike in the mileage at about the nine year mark. And a check of the service book showed it had been pretty badly forgotten for oil changes and the like by its 2nd owner after about 3 years of ownership. The dealer services stopped once the first owner sold it, then the 2nd owner took it to a small workshop once, then did their own changes reasonably ok for a year, then nothing. The service history shows at 6 years old it had about 100,00 km up. Then nothing until 2 years later with an extra 40,000 km on the clock. In 2015 it did nearly 30,000 km in 7 months, but had 3 oil changes. About 5 months later in early 2016 it had done another 18,000 km. And then the biggest gap in service history is from that oil change in Feb 2016 at about 9 years old, when there's nothing for the next 3 years and 103,000 km later. Which is when I got it with well over 300,000 km driven. Actually 314,968 km, according to what I recorded. Naturally I did an oil change in the first couple of days, and obviously it was very black. I tend to find it impossible that it ran for over 100,000 km without any servicing at all, so surely it had something done that wasn't recorded.Thing is, it runs well. Pulls hard for a 2 litre petrol and gets about 7.4 litres/100 km in my driving. It's a bit noisy on start up and clatters a bit like a diesel. But I remember being in a near new 2 litre i30 back in 2012 and it was clattery in exactly the same way. It settles down after about 30 seconds and it's because of the solid bucket tappets these engines use. But, and it's a big but, you could not expect to treat any Alloytec powered vehicle the same way and expect to have a happy engine. On CZcams there's a mechanic who was given the task of salvaging a 3.6 Alloytec VE that hadn't had the oil touched in 45,000 km. Very badly sludged up and rattling 'like a diesel' in the words of the mechanic. Survival of this engine ongoing was considered a bit troubling and something of a lottery and because the owners had got it from an auction, they were advised themselves to flog it off the same way. That VE had 165,000 km when the video was shot and it had last been serviced at 115,000 km. So pretty bloody bad, and I at least give credit to the fact the engine kept running. But if you look at that in comparison to the little i30 I got you'll see it's similar levels of neglect. Difference is the i30 is still happily running with only a stained dipstick from what have been skipped or ignored oil changes to show for it. It's a brown thinly varnished oily dirty stain similar to when a Mitsubishi gets neglected. But apart from that, if I didn't have a service record to point the finger at, and if you judged the car solely on how it runs and performs, you'd never guess it's gone at least 40,000 km without a service, and some indeterminate distance possibly approaching 100,000 km as well. I know an i30 is a simple cheap Mr Bean car, and not exciting and fast and flash like a VE, but I know which one I'd drive if I was really short of cash and just couldn't do services at all for years at a time.
Everyone I know who has had timing chain issues used to flog their Alloytec. In other words, work it really hard. High revs/High load, lots of burnouts, and shit like that. I have a 2006 VZ Calais with LY7 in it. I have had it since it was 3 years old and it had 70K on the Odometer when purchased. Today it has 330,000 km on the clock and I have had a couple of issues but nothing too serious and certainly no timing chain issues.
I have only had my foot flat to the floor on maybe 1 or two occasions to get a sense of what it could do (Back when I first got it). Other than that I only use about half Throttle to overtake (in terms of the pedal) In my opinion that's plenty, it's got lots of torque and overtakes with ease. I seldom exceed 5000 RPM and if I do it's only for very short intervals. When I tow a trailer (A caged 5' X 4') I take it pretty easy. I have always known I will need this car to last me a very long time so I have always kept that in mind.
I am a bit tardy with the oil changes but I have never had the type of sludge shown in the early part of this video. I do get a very small amount of milky stuff at the oil filler cap and in that catchment tube thing attached to the bottom of the intake plastics but it's really minimal. The only work I have had to do until now replaces 2 of the coil packs and the oil pressure sensor/sender. However, the other day I could hear a sound coming from the drive belt area that sounded like a bearing had gone. I checked all the pulleys for wobble and found a large amount of play on the water pump pulley (all the bolts were tight) so tomorrow I will be replacing Water Pump with GMB WP5000.
I know that some Manufactures over the years have made a few engines that could be flogged forever with little to no consequences. However, most engines will not take punishment forever. you need to do mods if you want something that can take any amount of abuse i.e. Balancing all reciprocating parts stronger or custom timing chain and many other things. Factory engines are not supposed to be used like race engines. they are supposed to be driven in a sensible manner on public roads. Before I got my Calais I used to chew through 2, 3, or 4 cars a year, because I would just flog the hell out of them. I would have timing belts/Chains breaking, Head Gaskets blowing, and many other problems. Funny Story: Many years ago I had a 1983 KE 70 Toyota Corolla lol (when I was like 18 years old approx) and I drove that car pretty much around Australia Flogging it all the way. Never changed the oil. Hand brake turns everywhere, full-throttle and high revs everywhere, and the only thing that broke was the clutch. But cars like that are rare. Don't get me wrong these days I don't drive as if I am driving miss daisy but I don't flog the thing either. If you like hooning around a bit you really need to have two cars. One you don't give a shit about and one that you want to last. The one you want to last you should drive it with a little more care for the Engine and drivetrain. Even better, get yourself a track car. Build that car to take some punishment. Get it all out of your system, then maybe you won't feel the "Need for Speed" with your everyday drive on public roads. GLA :D
I have the 2.8 turbocharged version. I change the oil and filter every year which is about 3-4 thousand miles. I always use castrol magnitec 5w30 C3. Never have any problems with the engine Whats so ever runs great, this is the second car I've had with this engine did the same with that. So many bad stories about timing chains but I've yet to have that problem or any for that matter, although did have to change coil packs but has been fine for 3 years now. Great engine. 302 hp and 413 ft lbs 💪🏻
I had the rattle on start-up for awhile, after I had the timing chain replaced. It began to knock pretty bad too, constantly had oil pressure problems despite all the oil I put in, Eventually I did some testing and worked out the cam positioning solenoid was dead, replaced it with another I found lying around and the knock and rattle went away.
A mechanic, after a 10minute look told me the problem was the timing chain, that would have wasted a lot of money just like what Broomy says here - Timing chains ain't cheap and its not an easy job.
I had an Ecotec V6, great car, great engine, no complaints, decent fuel economy.
My Alloytec is on a Crewman (4 door ute) and I haul a lot of gear so it may not be an equal comparison, but even when unladen I've never found the Alloytec to have any fuel advantage over the Ecotec.
I do want to say in 2yrs, 60,000km I've had every single problem Broomy mentioned - Water pump disintegrating after 4 months, timing chain after 2 weeks of having the car, misfires probably caused by the coils, PCV problems, PCV valve shearing off, oil press. sensor problems, not to mention the whole retarded design in putting the intake plenum up over all the spark plugs and valve covers. I really don't want to have to scrape the intake manifold just because I want to look at a spark plug...
The S2 VE with the SIDI LLT and LFX (and VF) are quite a bit better for doing sparkplugs, because you can actually get to all of them (back ones a bit tight but do-able) without needing in any way to remove the intake plenum. Quite a bit smaller and narrower. Certainly small enough not to cover up every plug unlike the ridiculous early manifold.
About to hit 300,000kms in my Crewman. I can hear the chain on startup at times for only a quarter of a second. Been a great engine. Maybe a barra could be a good upgrade after 300,000kms 😅
Get a V8
I was looking for a car recently. The mechanic next to my work said steer clear of an Alloytec. I bought a 290 Boss FG XR8.
I had to replace some valve cover gaskets on a 190 that popped 1 cylinders exhaust valve rockers off from under the cam and trapped the valves shut (I thought the chain had slipped but no DTC's, no comp loss on that cyl or visible damage on the piston, no.1 however lost around 30psi and wasn't the problem cyl 😅). Decided to drill out the PCV on the drivers side while I had the covers off with a 3mm and has to go through 2 layers to become an open passage (the tip of the barb coming out the drivers cover at the back and the base plate inside the valve cover further into the hole, you dont need a long bit or anything like that as it's not deep). I done this to my own 175 as well and relocated the PCV hosing so it's not going into the manifold any more, got some manifold spacers to try out next when i cbf, compression test while there and need to finish a custom cai design.
it is amazing how burnt and flaked up the oil becomes in top of the drivers head compared to the pass side due to that pissy hole.
also done my thermostat assembly, who in their right fkn mind thought that the back of the block would be a good spot for a simple thermostat in an in-house designed motor? 🙄
my advice is do it right the first time and forget about it after that lmao the car should be falling apart by the time it needs to be done again
I had a seized rocker problem too only it was both inlets on number 5. Got a misfire code on the scanner but wasn't until we took the manifold off and cranked the engine over to reveal the valves remaining closed. 2 second hand rockers from u-pullit, $10.
Just on the regular oil changes, i was told the oil filters have a sieve/screen that gets restricted easily affecting oil pressure/flow reducing oil to the top end. Could this be one of the contributing problems here?
My dad had a 2004 VZ SV6 with the 190kw Alloytec, and it was a good engine for the 18,000 km, and 8 years we had the car, but on start up it would tend to do the dreaded chain rattle for a couple seconds, especially when it sat for awhile. We recently sold the car back in September of 2023 after it started having some annoying electrical problems, but it still ran solid. It had 193,000 when we got rid of it.
I love this engine gets way too much hate, u should do a build series on it just too show what can be done with this awesome engine
Completely agree man . The LFX engine gets way to much hate . I got a tuned LFX with 91000km on it has 260kw and 450nm torque 0 - 100 in 5.6 seconds. 3 years ownership and haven't needed to do ANYTHING on the car . Engine is as clean as it came out of the factory. Rock solid if maintained..
@@justinlangley9522 How did you manage that?
@@justinlangley9522 260 kw at what rev peak ? Those dyno charts are set at kw per rev ! If you are redlining it at 260 kw that is actually not good and not an accurate guide
@@iamasmurf1122 I'm not to sure to be honest . I myself believe the dyno chart is a bit of . Says I make 208 rwkw at 6508rpm redline is 7000rpm .
More realistically I've measured by power by MAF / .82 like alot of people claim is correct and I get more like 250kw at the engine. I had an audi s5 v8 before this one and in the same stretch of road I achieved the same speed out of the sv6 as I did in the S5 which had 260kw .. so 250kw sounds realistic.
I have a vz 05 lumina sedan and it drives like a dream. I recently blew the head gasket. I’d noticed studders when accelerating round corners. Still does it. Is that spark plugs needing replaced or did the mechanic just not do a good job look🤞🏽
I’ve got a 2006 VZ Ute with the 190kw alloytec and 240k on the clock and had 129k clock when I bought the car. Timing chain wise it’s still running with the original (according to Holden) faultlessly and as far as the oil changes go I’ve done them religiously every 5000km. As far as the timing chains went Holden got them right as far as my car goes but as far as the PCV valve goes on VZs they are built into the rocker cover and as such the replacement cost is about $500 for an aftermarket one as Holden no longer keeps them in their parts.
Hi, my sportswagon has been rattling on start up from 66,000klm.
It's now on 248,00klm and still going same timing chains so far.
Use full synthetic oil and change every 15,000klm. Chains are quiet after rattle has gone and the r rattle only lasts about a second.
Hope this comment helps.
Hey mate just bought a vz ly7 with the exact same problem. Only started yesterday. Changed the oil doesn’t seem to help. Now I’m scared it’ll blow up 😂
I brought a ve berlina just had timing chains done and they changed the oil pump tensioner (which is a big no no) which caused oil pump failure just did new timing chains pump water pump and all seems to be running well for now. So will see how good they can be
I've had 2 alloytec powered commodores and both ran extremely well, that is because I'm a mechanic and I fixed the issues before they became a problem. I'm now finished my VY build running a stroked L67 and it's a dream to drive so I've got nothing bad to say about either engine.
Vz commodore with 291,000 klms, timings chain where rattling a little first start cold engine, had been doing so since 230,000 klms, noise would last 2 seconds at most, I changed the chains, rails guides at 281k plus a new oil pump, being a long time engine reconditioner machinist, I can tell you some of the issue on this start up rattle is due to the chain tensioner, check a Toyota or Nissan chain tensioner, the Holden unit seems way to oil dependant, needs to move a decent way before landing on the next click, Toyota a Nissan require far less movement between clicks that hold them in place when the engine stop, no rattle on start up, even after fitting new chains, rails and tensioner, I get a very slight rattle for a second or less when oil pressure has built up.
My next move is to drop the sump and fit mains and big end bearings, otherwise, compression it as per the book spec in all cylinders and I have retuned the engine with hp tuners dongle and software, 100 cell cats and a decent mandrel bent 2.5 inch exhaust system.
I get 8.2 litre per 100 klms highway and around 10 litre per 100 in town . Regular service is the key as well as decent fuel tune and good 02 sensors , although I only use the heater circuits on the two o2 sensors, I run a wideband o2 sensor and gauge, if I see things change I know the k&n air filter needs cleaning or it’s time to put some fuel injector cleaner ( nulon) in the tank, I change oil and filter every 5k and use castrol Magna tech 10w 40 motor oil. Oh and I don’t use the Holden breather system, I have both rocker covers venting into a drain back catch can, and the can breather goes into the air intake before the throttle body, This has eliminated the oil mist making it back into the intake manifold via the two side ports and that black plastic tubing that becomes brittle and likes to crack causing a vacuum leak.
I also installed and throttle body controller giving far better throttle response that the factory’s stupid throttle control.
My car is a rocket and has performance exceeding that of the vz sv6 and many a time of given a v8 powered vz, ve or vf base model something to think about leaving the lights.
This engine was twin turboed by Cadillac and it’s a rocket, if fuel wasn’t so expensive in 2023 I would turbo this engine with out a second thought.
Have an 07 VE factory duel fuel. 2nd owner from 18,000Ks. Have changed oil every 8,000Ks . Currently 380,000Ks with no issues. Granted they do burn clean on LPG.
Your looking after it, driving normal instead of doing a burnout around every corner.
@@ozziecollett3088 Your right. I think lots of hard revving contributes to timing chain stretch.
Got a 2009 Holden sv6 VE. Thought the timing chain stretched but just the VCT not working because how sludgy the engine was so I just went to town with a water blaster inside the moter. Haven’t had a problem with it yet
My 08 Leo was payed for and given to my ex, when we split she stopped driving it and it sat for 8 months.
She started it but didn't drive it and I was told the oil won't get everything if it's just idling and not driving.
When I picked it up it started fine but when it's under lead (sometimes)! It rattles and sounds like a damn truck.
I've always thought timing belt? BUT I drove it 130+km and it did it maybe 6-7 times and I learnt if I let go of the accelerator it will go away and I can accelerate again without it happening.
I only ever used the recommend oil from Holden and serviced very reg.
4 years later it's still sitting in the garage half pulled apart.no rattles no nothing when it's cold or hot, just what I mentioned.
Any thoughts???? I literally payed 22 1/2k and drove it twice! 😑
Just happy I've always kept my vz 1 tonner oil golden. Purchase with 1 owner and 76000ks, now she's up to 150,000ks and has only recently had a coil pack done. Never missed a a beat till that coil went but at 150 to be expected. Ill just keep changing the oil and she if she makes 400,000