BUG in Lightroom's New MASKING FEATURE?
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- čas přidán 9. 11. 2021
- I've received numerous emails from photographers encountering a problem with Lightroom's new masking feature. In this tutorial, I explain what it is and I offer a workaround.
*For those that might not see it, after this video posted, Brent Soucie posted a comment that the way you can get this to work is to do the subject mask then add the brush to it as I did then, on the brush, click on the three dots and click on, "Click to Subtract". Next, invert the mask on the subject and you should then have everything correctly inverted. It still is a two step process and I'd prefer that we can simply invert the entire mask in one step but this is good to know and I thank Brent for sharing it.
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Thank you!
For those that might not see it, Brent Soucie posted a comment that the way you can get this to work is to do the subject mask then add the brush to it as I did then, on the brush, click on the three dots and click on, "Click to Subtract". Next, invert the mask on the subject and you should then have everything correctly inverted. It still is a two step process and I'd prefer that we can simply invert the entire mask in one step but this is good to know and I thank Brent for sharing it.
THat is what I discovered as well, but being able to invert the composite mask is really what needs to be implemented.
You didn't mention PS but it's the same issue.
You mean not "Click to Substruct", but "Convert to Substract".
No, I didn't. Lightroom Classic on a Mac it's "Convert to Subtract".
I also just ran into a bug where I was playing around with looking at the before and after with the P key. After I was done looking at it that way, I clicked to open in Photoshop and it opened without the mask layers applied. Going back to camera raw via bridge, the masks no longer exist.
I thought this was just my lack of knowledge and experience with the new tools. I’m glad it’s not just me having this issue.
It’s quite easy, you right select brush 1 and choose “convert to subtract” not “invert”.
First issue I encountered when I tried the new masking feature
Hi Anthony: Thanks for bringing this work-around solution to our attention. This is why, I watch all of your video each day. Cheers, Keith
Thank you very much Anthony for pointing out this masking limitation and a work around.
I bet Adobe is hearing you loud and clear!
Spot on work around - obvious when think of it ( but I hadn't). All from the man with the most calming photographers' voice on CZcams ...
Thank you, Anthony!
As a beginner to lightroom, I was trying to do exactly this with one of my photos. Finally, I gave up thinking it was my lack of experience. This clarifies much. Jim
Thank you.. I ran into this issue late last night doing an edit and thought I was missing something. You just confirmed my problems. Thanks for the work around
Always, always helpful tips and information. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Anthony, It seems so obvious it would work the way we hope they change it. I was worried I was missing something. I too hope this gets an update soon.
Last week I discovered this exact problem. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for all of your Lightroom tips and tutorials. They have been most helpful to me!
I thought it is just me. I was unable to invert properly and I thought I simply don’t understand 😀 This video makes me feel better, thank you!
Anthony, thanks for the workround on this!
I have had this exact same problem for the first time earlier today and wondered what was wrong. Thanks for your explanation.
Thank you for the solution
Good info, I ran into a situation like this yesterday in fact.
Yup, I've had exactly that same issue when trying to add to a pre selection. It should be easy enough for Adobe to update LR to allow the combined masks to be inverted as a single mask 😉
Yes, I did notice that. I did what you just showed us to work around it. Hopefully they will fix this as you showed.
Thanks so much, I thought it was just me not understanding the new tools!
Thank you Anthony!👍👍
Thank you!
Great example! I haven’t come across this issue yet but it would have soon I’m sure. Thanks!
Nice tip -again🙏🙏Thanks🙏🙏
This was very helpful
The addition or deletion can be reversed separately by means of:
select the 3 dots and choose "convert to delete" or "convert to add".
I use the Dutch version of LR so I don't know the English entry. But it's very simple... It's just above "reverse"
I ran into that the first time I tried to mask a more complex photo with multiple subjects. Hopefully, Adobe will add the invert full mask button soon. This would be especially helpful for masking different background areas.
Thanks for the workaround. ;-))
Thanks a lot for this video. i encounter several times this problem and in some situation with multiple mask for a subject or whatever, it is really a problem. I hope that Adobe will react soon to this.
Probably me, but when I selected sky over soft down land the whole image got selected apart from hardlined buildings. When I selected subject on a street shot, every tone on the image similar to the subject got selected too! Spent more time deselecting than I did selecting on the previous version. Deleted the whole download and have gone back to 10.4. Very happy.
I suspect a lot of users, myself included, are using the select subject mask inverted to select the background. I would like to see LR include a select background mask and the would streamline workflows by allowing you to get too the mask you need quicker.
Thank you
Thank you Anthony. I will be buying the latest version soon. By the way, when I saw the title for the video, I thought it was another video on the importance of wearing a mask!
This is what I've been doing. Like you said the work around is pretty obvious solution.
Thanks!
Thank you Dale!
Great catch but like most issues, that problem can be used creatively to our advantage!
An interesting quirk. I can’t help thinking that now they are getting the house in order regarding the masking engine in Lightroom, it’ll only be a matter of time before refine mask and other channel tools are available. That’ll make it even more useful. Still a big step forward, despite a few workarounds.
Yea that’s the way I’ve been getting around that . Love the new tools tho !
Nice to see you addressed this issue. However, my experience is that Lightroom fails to launch the masking tool. No way around it, I've tried turning restarting Lightroom and starting over but the problem persists.
Thanks, yes workaround wasn't that complicated but as you said, Adobe needs to add the functionality.
Thanks. Your video is right on point. Not only should you be able to invert at the mask level, it would great if there was a flatten mask function, like you can do in photoshop. That way you could use all the tools to get the mask you want, and flatten them into one mask without two, three, or more sub masks. Great video, thanks.
Why would you want to do this?
@@dktraveller8364 With more complicated selections, you might end up with two to four (or more) sub layers to get the selection. Then if you wanted to reverse it, you would have to deal with all those sub selections, and you would probably have the issue that Anthony is solving in the video. So if you convert all the masks into one mask, you could then invert it, or apply it again (copy the mask) so that you could do a different adjustment. While the new AI masking often works very well, I've had an issue when I have two people and I want to select just one, and then reverse the background. In Photoshop, I believe, you can choose one from several subjects, but not in Lightroom so far.
Anthony, you are the most easiest person to follow and you give such great informative tips - thanks so much once again. :)
Forget that bug. When importing by copying the order of the images will not import in the proper order using the image number. The only way I can see the images in their correct order after importing is to sort by date time. I’ve been using LR since v3 and never had this problem until recently. I had hoped the latest version would fix it but no.
As others pointed out, just convert the brush to subtract, I don't see this as a bug. When you start playing with "intersect" maybe the logic makes more sense. But in addition to adding invert at the mask group level, a nice option would also be the ability to flatten any or all layers of a mask group to a single level. I do think Auto Hide has bugs but that's another topic.
Thanks for that but the mask issue I get is that once the subject mask applies then anything I do to edit affects the whole frame not just the masked area,
No Anthony, the way to do that is to select the subject, then inverse, and then subtract.
Oh, I didn't wait for the end of the video. lol.
Not only is this the situation in Lightroom ,it's alsothe same in Camera Raw in Bridge/Photoshop.
There is an option to do what you want to do.
Once you have selected the subject and then added the brush if you want to invert the selection the steps are the following:
First you invert the subject mask
After that, instead of inverting the brush selection you click on the three points and use the option "Convert to Subtract" to subtract what you added and effectively inverting it.
That will work
What I miss is a possibility to add some feather to the masks created by Select Subject and Select Sky.
probably just me, but when I select sky over gentle downland hills the grass and almost everything in it gets selected. If I select subject, everything with a similar tone gets selected too. I spent more time correcting this than using the old method. Deleted the whole system - back to the previous with relief.
Interesting, but I assume this is the reason they added the subtract functionality. The programming logic flow is probably designed by programmers who are not really photo processors. I'm sure they can tweak it in an update to be more streamlined and work more the way a photographer thinks.
The long term solution is to have layers with layer masks which are in Photoshop Elements with some good selection tools. The new capabilities are about a business decision, not to provide really new and useful tools.
Thanks Anthony. Question: In the "Old Lightroom" you were able to use a Linear Gradient over Sky and Trees and use a Luminance Mask over the Gradient to take away some of the mask on the trees so that you wouldn't change the trees as well. I can't see how you do this with the new masks.
Possibly do your Linear Gradient mask then hold the Alt key and click Intersect then Luminance Range?
@@stevepersighetti3400 Thanks. Tried that but it doesn't work very well.
You apply the Linear Gradient and then subtract a Luminance mask from it.
Gee, I didn't see that as an issue. I'm not skilled at lightroom or masking, but I would have selected the subject and inverted it because I really want to select the background, then subtract any bits that I don't want to modify
Lightroom mobile has an update with new masking features. I don’t think I’ll update it for now, I’m not in the mood to learn a new way to do what I don’t need. I’m happy enough with it how it is.
OMG and I thought I was an idiot because I was having this same problem!
It is a bug Anthony. The inversion of the Brush mask actually INTERSECTED with your 'Select Subject'. Try just doing that mask separately and then select 'Intersect' with 'Select Subject' and you will see you get the same result. There are some wires crossed there.
I've been saying since day one when this was introduced, that there is a major problem because additions and subtractions on the Subject and Sky, are totally ignored by all other tools. That means you have to repeat whatever you wanted to do on the subject and sky ...ON EVERY OTHER MASK.
Adobe NEEDS to make the Subject and Sky masks CUMULATIVE so that any additions and subtractions on them, are integrated with them so the whole Subject and whole Sky are treated as group MASKS so when you Subtract Subject from any mask, the Subject Mask and it's additional Add and Subtract masks are all subtracted as a group. How could they have missed this???
Your example was simple and straightforward. Try selecting a sno-x racer on his snowmobile, against a background of other snowmobilers going the other way on the back part of the track, and just behind them is a very complex tree line. The Select Subject misses parts of the main subject and adds parts of other snowmobiles and riders and picks up parts of the trees in the background. The brush selection works well enough to resolve it but it is all in vain because if you want to blur the background or saturate the sky ...you can subtract the subject but not ANY of the other selections made to refine it with Addition and Subtraction masks. Not consolidating the Subject and Sky with their additions and subtractions is a system designed by Adobe's Department of Redundancy Department. For simple work like the example you showed, GREAT. For anything where selecting the subject or sky is even a little challenging ...it is an utter fiasco.
With the old Lightroom Brushing I could make those selections but I can't now.
Similarly in the old version you could Brush your gradients to refine them. You can now too, but the same thing applies. Any additions and subtractions are missed by any other tool masks you use.
We need to be able to +brush and -brush on any mask and have those changes stay with that mask and be reflected throughout that image's workiflow.
I'm assuming many of the Guru's praising this masking are being incentivized by Adobe and that is why we aren't seeing this major issue revealed in more videos.
My masks or brushes are not worming at all, I seltect the subject and it changes everhthing when I change something on it.
I have an invert (under the Mask icon in the right panel)
look at your video at 3:25. Top right under the "i" in the white circle. That will invert whatever is part of the selected mask.
But how do you save the changes to the image?
"Something they overlooked" Jinx you owe me a soda 😅😅
Has anyone had issues with syncing mask setting to other images? I usually only use Lr as a library to import and evaluate my images to edit in Ps. The only editing I do in Lr is for time lapses due to the ease of syncing images. I've had nothing but problems since the update. The new sub/bg masks don't seem to work with either option checked in the sync settings. I've given up trying to sync any AI masks. Last night I even had issues with syncing spot removal changes to an export of several thousand images. Some images had the all the spot removal changes, others had some of the changes, and some had none at all. All the other edits were consistent in the export. Very frustrating
MR. ANTHONY, DOES LIGITROM REMOVE BACROWN FROM PHOTOGRAPHS? AND HOW DOES IT FAIL?
Well, now can you tell me why my subtract brush isn't working? It had been working fine and 2 days ago just stopped. The add brush works fine, but the subtract brush will not work at all. Also, just using the brushes ny themselves is not working like it did before. Its like a very "light" layer is happening. I have 12 photos left in a gallery i need to finish and now can't because of the brushes in the mask setting and by themselves not working or not working properly. I updated Lr right after the issues were occurring because an update was available and it didn't not fix the issue. Still have trouble with the brushes.
Not the droid I'm looking for. My issue with all the new masking tools is that sometimes I can't find them at all. Initially, when I click the making tool, I get the dropdown box that offers the options - Linear, Radial, etc. And then that becomes the little window where I can add another mask. But too often the whole selection tool just disappeared. I can't chose or add another mask. What's up with that??
When I add a mask and then change exposure or anything else, the entire photo exposure changes, can you help?
I'd like to know what Adobe says about this.
I'm really really unhappy with this last update... LR doesn't work anymore ! It freezes all the time... I can't work !!
They need a merge mask feature.
I thought you could merge layers... Hsaw it on another YT review... Am I missing something?
I just updated Lightroom Classic and when I create an object mask it's greyed out and doesn't work at all! Anybody else having this problem? Thanks.
Seriously, everything I do on the masks doesn't show up when I try to make it freeform with the brush tool, no changes at all, like no brightness, contrast, color adjustments, etc. Its extremely frustrating and all articles and videos on masking don't address this issue - is it just mine? I feel like this is worse than before because at least I was able to use it before! Anyone know of how to fix this?
So here's my issue, I was having computer issues with "blue screens" . But I updated a driver on my Android PC and I don't seem to have "blue screen" issues anymore, The other day I tried to mask in one item in color on a photo that I turned to B&W and while the brush does add the background color to the item the minute I stop using the brush it converts right back to B&W. There is no way to save or apply. At least now I'm able to apply the brush and add in color the other day before I updated the drive on my windows I was not even able to use the brush to add in color so it's a step up but it definitely is a bug. Is this happening to anyone else?
I am not liking these updates in LR11. It's an awful time, during busy life-events photography season, to do a huge update and relearn functions.
Could this problem be solved by simply using a new Mask for the deck, and then invert each of the two masks you have made. I don't know haven't tried any masks yet :-)
I've received numerous emails from photographers encountering a problem with Lightroom's new masking feature. In this tutorial, I explain what it is and I offer a workaround.
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Thank you!
For the brush in the duplicate, select convert to subtract
Ahhhhh, brilliant! I should have known that. Thank you for sharing.
I am finding that the masks are not working properly. When I select the subject all the image is being effected. Is there a fix for this, as I'm thinking I have to uninstall LR and I really don't want to do this again.
Yeahhh...that's not really a bug. It's all based on math. You invert them separately and that's what you get. Your "workaround" is the proper way to do this. You're right, though, they really need an invert on the topmost mask summary.
I thought it was just me not understanding how it worked :-)
They should just add a "Merge Masks" option
Funny to see this, I’ve been using the update for a few weeks now and I just realized this bug the past few days
Thanks for the info
I'm not sure this is a bug. There are several ways one could go about achieving the mask and the stated goal - some better and more efficient than others. I wouldn't do this via subject selection. I'd do a color ranger selection of the background from the start. I could see this 'bug' being useful in some scenarios.
Sorry. User error. Apologies!
Is there also a problem with the range mask not working within a selection?
Range Mask works perfectly for me. Just remember to use the " intersect with" feature to combine the effect of the range mask only to your original selection otherwise the range mask will affect the entire image 😉
Here is a video addressing that exact problem: czcams.com/video/EZcHhWB437c/video.html He covers this about 2/3 of the way into the video.
Let's face it, Adobe screwed up - or give us our money back!
This behavior is no bug. It is mathematically correct. You first select the subject (A) and the deck (B). In Boolean algebra you say the selection is „A OR B“. In Boolean algebra you say the selection is „A OR B“. Now you expect that „(Not A) OR (NOT B)“ would be the same as „Not (A OR B)“. No, it isn’t. It is „Not (A AND B)“. In other words, the result ist NOT the intersection of A and B. What you really want is „Not (A or B)“ = „(Not A) AND (Not B)“. Now if you select A and subtract everything except the deck and then invert both of the selections you get the result you want.
A very misleading clickbait video title as it’s definitely not a bug at all, it just a (possible) oversight by Adobe, that’s the difference…
Lol, mine doesn't work at all. I mask whatever I like, but the still can't adjust the masked area, any adjustments are global. I Lso don't like we lost the old adjustment brushes completely. Part of Lighyrooms appeal was being able to so a simple dodge or burn each without having to mask anything. Broken.
Thanks!
Thank you Becky!