This is Why You Should HERO Fold
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- čas přidán 20. 06. 2024
- Hero folding in poker can be important and you have to know the right times to do it. Bart and the caller discuss such a spot where a hero fold might be warranted.
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0:00 - Intro
1:15 - Preflop
2:26 - Flop
2:56 - SSE - Betting More Volume
4:45 - Multiway Theory
11:03 - Promo
11:29 - Turn
13:41 - River
19:38 - Hero Decision
19:57 - SSE - Overfolding When Bluffs Would Be Paired
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How often do you find a call in this spot if you were the Hero, after showing so much strength postflop?
One thing I struggle with, is with fishy players who donk on flops in these private/fun games, they end up having the weirdest hands, that are far beyond logic bluffs. So often they end up showing the weirdest of lines.
Very opponent and dynamic dependent imo.
Hands im most concerned about are J9c and 78c. Dont think A8c bluffs here. These days im rarely calling here as spot is underbluffed. Problem is we made T cheap enough for J9o too.
How big should we bet the Turn? Whats the range for overbetting here?
Bart the logic you gave for betting bigger on T included making a R call more tempting for V. Doesnt that cut both ways? Eg we bet pot on T. Pot is 1700. R is offsuit 7 and V shoves for.our remaining 500. Thats some seriously good odds.
So, with SPR in mind, should we ever be shoving T ?
This is a fold. A clear fold.
If there's one thing we know for sure, it's that this guy agrees with Bart. I would be completely smashed if I had to take a drink for every time he agreed.
I agree
@@GibraltarianoI agree with your agreeing
I concur
I totally agree
On the turn, another reason for a bigger bet is it’s pretty clear where you are here (at least, presumably), but there’s so many bad river cards, that seems like another reason for going bigger before then.
This seems like the best takeaway. Shove the turn or go way bigger to make the draws pay. He could have gotten a fold here, instead he went with smaller sizing to bring a 10 along.
These videos have helped me so much
There are definitely several private games (including a couple 10/25 or higher) in NYC, queens and Brooklyn as well as several on Long Island. I’m not sure about Staten Island or the Bronx but I would assume there are games there also. There are also traveling high stakes invite only games at hotels around NY. The Mayfair as you mentioned and the Diamond club were 2 of the biggest and best years ago.
So if he’s calling when the big open ender and clubs come in he’s never folding an overpair here? That’s nuts
it's probably like the 6th nuts
I thought callers logic was sound until he said he’s calling on club river 🤦🏾
Oof. As played, I think I'm just folding here, regardless of my read on V. Hard to find anywhere near enough bluffs in this spot.
I almost always fold in this spot and I just know I got bluffed by missed clubs although I know in reality thats usually not the case
The problem is with people who Play this spastically you have to include a lot of other random junk in their range. They aren't playing for value or to win stacks, they're just playing to win hands, and sometimes they just want to go full Mike McDermott and win this hand this time just to prove that they can outplay someone.
So with that in mind we still have to call quite often in spots that seem like obvious folds
Yes there are several private games in every borough with a massive rake but great player pool. There is talk of a poker room opening in nyc which would be the best games in the world.
Best games will always be in texas
@@CashMoneyDG Any good games in Austin? Thinking of moving there
@@joshs1899 There's of course The Lodge, where you'll find the widest variety of games, but it's about 30 min north of Austin. Shuffle 512 and TCH are two rooms closer to the city that have great action. I'm from Houston, but when I go to Austin, I play at those 3.
@20:20 when you realize why Hero is invited to this Home Game and all Home Games to follow
Then entire call: When you realize why the villain is invited to these private games as well.
Really depends on the games you play in tbh.
It was his first hand with the new player at the table and is saying things like "i don't think he's the type of player to...". You don't have that knowledge, bub. He just sat down.
I would almost always fold. H action before river on all streets spells a fold. When someone is not afraid to jam into all streets aggressor, that spells a powerful hand (whatever it is), which one pair is not strong enough to beat. Even if there is a small window of bluffing possible, I would not try to open it, as that's a lose action on the long run. Folding to a river jam is the only right decision.
This game sounds great!
If I’ve learned anything from Mr. Marc Goone, hero calling after showing extreme strength is no bueno. Fold all day
I grew up and ran games there they are in every county in the 5 Burroughs
Gotta be right about 30% of the time to call, but sure looks like you're only good about 5%. The 30yo Asian male dynamic bumps up your chances by 3-4x, but that's still not enough. Fold.
Flop is actually a great spot to raise with air. I'm ready to give up with my AK or AQ, then someone in the blinds donks out and I raise. It gets a lot of folds.
The guy seemed very reasonable until he said he was going to call off any club, that's just lighting money on fire.
Would it though? The Kc is a very key card. It blocks numerous flush draws, which in this case I would think a fold is the better play since V could now lean more straight heavy.
@@danielwilliams9753 it doesn't block enough. There's still at least 20 combos of reasonable fd's and they all seem more likely than the 15 J9o + 3 96s. Would you rather call 3x pre from the bb with J9o or AXs/other normal fd's against 4 other people?
You dont think villain could be playing AA for value? A lot of players like to limp aces especially in a multi-way pot
I kept waiting for you to make a Euro comment.
Turns out it was an Asian comment. 😆
I have nothing against people from Europe. Only “Euros” at the table. “Euros” by my definition means anyone non American/Canadian or Asian..although the Japenese are creeping into the “Euro” category. I have also started using the term “American-Euro” which implies miserable, grindy reg that brings nothing to the game.
@@CrushlivePokerOh. I always thought it was a style of play term, now you say it’s a character term, as a euro I’m ever so slightly offended 😡😡😡
@@Gibraltarianomake sure to wear your helmet
@@Solofopholo I thought it was an ignorant stereotype, but it’s true, Americans don’t understand sarcasm ⛑👷♂️🪖🧑🚒
I disagree that villian always check shoves on turn with trips or 2 pair.
Board didnt look that dangerous;.
I woulda just called with a big hand there planning to get it in on river..maybe i think like a fish.
I think the decision isn’t math as much as read on the villain. I don’t play these stakes but at 3 or 4 a.m. in a casino I’m calling this more than likely in a 1/3 game.
I live in NY good luck finding out what the rake in any of those games actually are
lmao facts
Donk on draw, only call raise; check/call turn; donk river when draw comes in... almost guaranteed the nuts
So we think v would donk jam busted clubs? Do players that take these lines bluff on the end when the fd misses?
I saw the video yesterday from derby lane. I know a player there who recruits people to play in his home game and it is well known that he has a history of collusion and cheating.
Everytime Bart says "I'm giving away pieces of myself" it makes me laugh.
I better be winning a piece.
Is the giveaway already closed after 19 hours?
Really?
When I type that in that's the message I get.
It turned out villain had a hand that hero wanted him to have, up to the river, and he still lost. I can't say I agree villain never has thick value because he does not jam turn. I wonder what hand hero would fold here? Is AA really any better than KK here? Does hero really have T8 here ever? TT or 88 are really just hands where hero gets cooler'd right? If hero cannot find a fold against an OOP villain's 2nd donk... what line would her ever fold to? J9 off is probably close to the bottom of villains flop-donking range right? We do wind up beating A8cc & 97cc, I guess he might donk QJcc given the hand he actually donked with.
Call-call-donk jam is always always the nuts vs non-pros. You can fold anything here imo.
Dude said $100 rake per hand cap sheesh that’s insane
luv the vids...keep em coming....best games in NYC are in Brooklyn....especially Brighton Beach or Manhattan Beach....thats where i cut my teeth....there is a historic 5k - 10k game that runs once a week and the min buy in is 100k (which is nothing) usually the players sit with 250k+....mostly immigrant Russians, jewelry store owners, and taxi medallions owners....and they all limp
5k-10k with only 100k buyin? Lol wtf
@@1312Mork2 yep, i thought it was a joke too...when i asked why the min buy in is so low, the host says to me its easier to remember how much people owe when they wanna borrow after they went bust....ive been there once just as a railbird for a friend...these guys will take off watches, rings, and necklaces and throw them in the pot...it was insane
lol sounds legit crazy@@jonathangraber3628
Right… tons of rich fish show up to play 10BB effective.
Would anybody be interested in playing with you poker CZcams personality?
I don't understand why people raise to whatever is typical at a table. Wouldn't it be better to use something else, unless all your study is with that particular size?
When I use the term "typical raise" i mean what most players open to when they want action with a decent range. Tables have a flow and that number will be set by someone. People will jump around so it may not be the exact amount. As the game progresses you adjust your sizing based on all the typical poker factors, hand, position, villain(s), stack size, image blah blah.
Well 3-4x is typically going to be optimal for these live games which is why people go with that.
Was this a municipal game?
Yes in Binghamton
What’s a municipal game ?
@@consumer5728It’s a Rounders reference, the game against the state troopers.
@@robertbotelho9702 ahh i see
I never fold in this spot and I haven't seen the reveals. Thi boards people do random shit so I call.
That would be a ridiculous call on a club river. What in the world could he ever beat there besides a really poorly played J9 that isn't J9 of clubs. He's never doing that with a 10, there's like one bluff that makes any sense and a billion value hands that beat you.
The 7 could have only been worse if it was a ♣ Hero should have sized up or shoved the turn to get a fold. Going smaller to keep a 10x hand in is risky.
if you're invited to a home game how can you "know" it's on the up and up? how can you know the deal isn't rigged, for example?
You can't be sure, unless you know the people running the game well enough.
Rigging the deal is a LOT of work. IMO, Look instead for palmed chips & over-raked pots, that's the low-hanging fruit. You can audit inconspicuously as you stack a won pot.
Haven’t you seen Rounders? Don’t play in the municipal games!
Unless you know the person who runs it, you should assume it's rigged.
"Rigging the deal" is about the last thing you need to worry about. I'd be significantly more worried about collusion from house or random players.
Great story about C-betting. And so the big blind donks.
Nobody is beating a $100 cap rake
What does $100 cap rake mean?
@@quandt4847 the most the house can rake one hand. Usually casinos are something like 10% of the pot up to a max of $6. So if the pot is 50 then the house takes 5. If the pot is 1000 the house takes 6. In this case 1000 pot the house takes 100 😅
This 10 20 game has shorter stacks than most 2 5 games lmao
Nobody can beat a $100 rake. I don't care who you are.
Good thing he clarified which black kings it was. I was super confused
Your taking about hero folding yet you called off your whole stack to a nit chick who 3 bet your UTG raise and bet into 2 people on a Q high board then barreled all 3 streets🤣
its all luck, if your rummnning bad, shove the turen or over bet so he dosnt have , he may still call but.
best to protect