Does Stoicism Believe in God? - Answers to Common Questions (Stoicism)
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This is an answer to a common question: Does Stoicism believe in God? The answer - as far as ancient Stoicism goes - is Yes.
But the God that the Stoics believe in is very different from conceptions of God in many contemporary world religions - especially the Abrahamic faiths of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. For the Stoics, God is a divine reason or Logos immanent within the universe, rather than being a transcendent creator. God is also known primarily through human reason, rather than through any religious revelation.
The Stoic conception of God also differs from that of ancient pagan polytheist religions. God - and the gods - were understood by the Stoics to be entirely rational beings, not the sort of gods who would engage in activities like conflict or cheating. Ancient Stoics also didn't concern themselves much with prayer or sacrifice, though they did think that divination could have some validity.
When it comes to modern Stoics, there is a wide range of religious beliefs and commitments. There are some atheists and agnostics among modern Stoics. There are also believers in some of the world religions. And there are even some people who espouse ancient Stoic views on the divine as well.
One of the most important source texts for this topic is Cicero's On The Nature of the Gods, which you can get here - amzn.to/2FA8dIO
#stoicism #God #questions
I have watched this video a couple of times since you have uploaded it. You restore Traditional Stoicisms in what I have seen that has faded in the modern approach to the practice today. Thanks Gregory B. Sadler.
You’re welcome. I’m not a traditional Stoic, and am a team member of the Modern Stoicism organization
The God of the Philosophers... that's really interesting. I never heard that term before, thanks. At 6:28 you said you were linking below to a symposium about what modern Stoicism is exactly. I'm not able to find it.
Thanks a lot for the video, you did agreat job. Also very valuable recomendations at the end. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful for you!
Very informative...Thank you very much for your time and effort. Great video!
Glad it was helpful
@@GregoryBSadler Im sure you are Sir.....or you would have never given it to US....a blessing for me right now....I ll be looking into more of your videos Dr.........Peace to you....
Thanks Sir this video is so helpful! I noted books that you recommended in video, what can I read except those?
The Ciceron's dialogue is excellent!
It certainly is
Great video Dr. Sadler. I’m curious, as an Academic Philosopher, if you have subscribe to the God of the Philosophers or not? Thanks for any input on your own views.
Depends on what you mean by subscribe
@@GregoryBSadler I guess I mean is there any specific Theological or Philosophical tenets that you follow in your own life that help you make sense of your existence. If that makes anymore sense? I find you to be quite intelligent and am curious if you have a specific belief system that you follow.
@@cazoon There's plenty, but a CZcams comment isn't the place for me to try to tally all of them up and write them down
Just for clarity, don't some of the Abrahamic faiths also say that God can be known through reason alone? For example, Catholicism believes in natural faith and is also about supernatural faith where somethings eventually require a revelation (like the Trinity). Such natural faith may not be sufficient for salvation, but a belief system does take place which results in a rather developed and intricate Natural Law tradition.
Wouldn't it be fair to say that a Thomas Aquinas argues for a "God of the philosophers" with the 5 ways? Or does Ancient Stoicism require a necessarily pantheistic understanding of God?
Thanks!
Well, to start with Catholicism isn't a "faith". Christianity is, and Catholics are one main community (in fact, at present, the majority of the world's Christians, though those demographics could, of course change) within that.
Second, you don't want to confuse Thomas Aquinas - who is just one of many Catholic thinkers - with the entirety of the Catholic intellectual traditions.
Third, while you can find plenty of thinkers - Catholic or not - saying that God can be known through natural reason (i.e. reason unaided by revelation), don't confuse that with them asserting that God is known adequately through natural reason).
As to the question about the 5 ways, yes, if that's all one read of Aquinas, that would definitely be the God of the philosophers.
Gregory B. Sadler thanks for replying! yes, I think I agree with what you said here.
Just one thing: would you say the ancient stoic understanding is necessarily pantheistic? Would you mind pointing me to some primary material of ancient stoic authors I can read who discuss God specifically?
As I said in the video, Cicero's On The Nature of the Gods is the first text to look at.
Gregory B. Sadler oops...sorry about that, I should have given it a relisten.
Thanks again!
The God of the philosophers isn’t necessarily different from the Abraham God. Classical theism is both. The concepts coincide in one truth.
What does Providence in Stoicism mean?
I have searched everywhere but haven't been able to quite grasp it. I understand their pantheistic view which evolved from "Phusis", which is basically a sort of life-force in accordance with which things grow to their perfect potential. But where does Providence step in? OR are Phusis, God, and Providence the same thing?
I can't quite grasp an image of Providence that is coherent with the google definition, "Providence, the quality in divinity on which humankind bases the belief in a benevolent intervention in human affairs and the affairs of the world" mainly because it sounds way too Abrahamic, which as we know, wasn't the Stoic conception of God. Seneca's letter to Lucillus, On Providence, seemed to provide a largely Abrahamic defense of why bad things happen to good men so I am in doubt now as to what is this Providence.
What does Providence mean in terms of Stoicism, especially during the time of Zeno and other early stoics?
Thank you. H.
Epictetus has a whole chapter on it.
@@GregoryBSadler In what book? and what chapter? H.
@@huz.4028 Come on. Don't be lazy.
czcams.com/video/kSnxvnrCHLw/video.html
I am a Muslim and I am really influenced by Stoic Philosophy and would love to implement it and follow it in my daily life , So would it be any problem for me Believing in A Transcendent theistic God as well as being a stoic . ???
Depends on what your specific beliefs in a "Transcendent theistic God" look like
@Eremias Ranwolf You'll find overlaps with most religions
Thanks
You're welcome!
hey, doc are you familiar with Jordan Peterson's work?what is the best way to go about understanding the phenomenological worldview? I am a newbie philosopher.
Dr. Sadler does have stuff about Heidegger in his Existential playlist. Which is direction from which Peterson comes from with his concept of truth, not directly from Heidegger but from similar line of thinking.
Thank you!
If you want to understand phenomenology, you want to study thinkers who were in the phenomenological movement. There isn't one single "phenomenological worldview".
Are all stoics materialists?
Classic Stoics are
I'm an atheist student of stoicism and personally don't see a belief in any kind of god being necessary to the stoic lifestyle.
Yep. 'personally".
There's others who just as "personally" see it as compatible with a Stoic lifestyle.
There's even traditional Stoics who think you need to have the classical Stoic conception of God and providence
@@GregoryBSadler and we can all co-exist happily. I'm new to this so am still learning :)
The ancient stoic system was more complicated than the modern idea of being emotionally cool and philosophical about life's problems. There was a whole worldview based on god, and this god had created the universe, and you could discover god through exploring logic of the universe. And to be a stoic meant to align yourself to the natural order of the universe set forth by god by observing the logic of the universe, somewhat similar to the idea of aligning yourself with the Tao. If one aligned oneself with this logic, meaning, in part, controlling emotions, then you would achieve inner peace. But control of your emotions was a means to an end, which was a correct alignment with the universe, with truth. Nowadays, stoicism is all about cognitive behavioral therapy. I guess it's useful for people, but it's kinda sad that this is how many people see stoicism.
Whats all this nonsense about concern about "god talk"? Surely its not even in the realm of philosophy and rather more, or entirely, about psychology.
It's long been part of philosophy, as just a bit of research will indicate.
Good luck with your studies