Stoicism and Christianity: Trust the Logos!
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2024
- What is "Logos" anyway? The explanation to some Bible passages rests in their original philosophical context in a Pagan world home to Stoicism, Hermeticism, Platonism, Gnosticism and more. In this episode of Not Related! (notrelated.xyz) we look at the Stoic background to the Gospel and epistles of John and the meaning of Christ as the Stoic ideal and the incarnation of the "Logos."
0:00 What's the Word?The Rise of Christian Theology.
2:53 Being "Stoic" in popular culture and philosophical Stoicism.
3:42 What does Logos mean? The rational order of the universe.
5:47 Universal vs. Individual Telos.
7:47 Bad grammar is gay.
9:40 Stoic morality explained.
11:33 The Disciples learn to #TrustThePlan with Jesus
12:30 Morality, human free will and human action: The Dog Cart Metaphor
14:43 Jesus as the Logos/Word
16:12 Jesus as the Stoic Ideal
20:50 When you're too rational to be rational!
21:50 Jesus versus ZA WARUDO (Logos vs. Cosmos)
24:12 Logos and the victory against sin versus a political messiah
27:19 Statement on Polytheism and Monotheism (Hinduism and Greek and Roman religion)
30:49 Gnosticism and Gnosis, Platonism, and early heresy
35:47 Light vs. darkness
36:55 Review - Věda a technologie
Alright, you've convinced me. I'll finally install arch for God's sake.
*atrtix now
Install Pony OS because of your nom de plume
@@DawsonFord why artix over arch? Just curious.
@@mathisblair2798 systemd was the reason. I use macos so I can't be based anymore.
Temple OS.
It's even written in Holy C
This verse is what converted me. I began to really believe in the Logos, and then I realized that John says "that's what God is, dude."
In St. Augustine's Confessions, he describes his exact same conversion. He was reading the latest and greatest philosophy of the Neo-Platanists, and he realized that their new understanding could be perfectly summed up by the opening of John's Gospel.
Me too! I was reading Matthew, Mark and Luke and was thinking, this is instruction. And then when I got to John he says, Jesus is the Word made flesh. And I was like, yes!
i'm curious how/why that converted you. honest question.
@@jamieg2427 The existence of the Logos (as fate, tao, oversoul, etc.) was already convincing enough, and is necessary to stoic philosophy. Of course I've had other personal experiences, but that really just clicked. Simple as that.
@@bograham6221
1. what made you believe logos exists in the first place?
2. it's then very important to ask, "what is logos as you understand it?" because i think this video gave both of us very different takes in logos.
3. what role do you think anecdote should have in truth formation?
i started to write my own answers to the above questions, but i'm trying to focus on other people's opinions more these days.
Came for Linux and open-source, stayed for Christian lore
same
😂 yuuup
The holy pill is strong in this one
take the god pill
Better than red, black, blue etc
we must spread the God pill
Christians don't take pills, they drink cool aid.
@@kooolainebulger8117 Hang on, I gotta hop on my boat with a million different animals with no food to feed them for a year first.
You just conveyed a year of philosophy, latin, history and religion in 40 minutes. One of a kind video. Thank you
Underrated channel.
It's funny how people these days tend to think that only just recently, suddenly, we got smart and society stopped "sucking". That's just blatantly not true, and in fact, one could argue we got worse. Technology and "ease of access" to information does not make the world inherently better, and it certainly doesn't do much for society.
38 minutes and 57 seconds were well spent.
Never expected to learn that much in one video on CZcams
Thank you for representing the message of Christianity properly. Most people construct a caricature they can attack. You were simply educational.
I've heard people say "ok, but how can you believe in a PERSONAL God". That's exactly why Christianity makes the most sense to me because we don't view God as an impersonal force or vague "consciousness". Essences, universals, divine exemplars, the "Logoi" which are the energies of the "Logos" are ideas in the mind of a personal God named Jesus Christ.
ذَٰلِكُم بِأَنَّهُۥٓ إِذَا دُعِىَ ٱللَّهُ وَحْدَهُۥ كَفَرْتُمْ ۖ وَإِن يُشْرَكْ بِهِۦ تُؤْمِنُواْ ۚ فَٱلْحُكْمُ لِلَّهِ ٱلْعَلِىِّ ٱلْكَبِيرِ
I don't see how that is different from certain religions
@@miguelatkinson Faith saves, not works.
@@kaxerrr when did I mention anything about works or faith and also there are some Christians who might disagree with you on that one
@@miguelatkinson So? Other religions are works based when it comes to their interpretations of salvation and enlightenment.
LogOS specifically aimed at people who use computers made out of wood ;)
:^)
Top notch pun.
Personal story: I’m 37 year old American (for context) and got caught up in the New Atheist movement of the mid 2000’s and lost my faith then. At the time, I associated Christianity with the stupidity of the Neocon boomer evangelicals and learned to hate Christianity and I became somewhat of a shitlib as a result. It’s so refreshing to see the rise of this older more traditional Christianity that stands for something real and not just giving cash to Israel. Even though I’m still technically an atheist, I have really begun to respect Christianity as I get older.
what majority people get is watered down metaphysics, and they are presented with religion that has been corrupted in so many ways, it's no wonder people are atheists (lazy agnostics)
36yo kraut boomer here. Got evangelized/baptized in 2000. And just been through what you said about neocons + evangelicals. Can relate to your story. Also I went pretty "hard core"/orthodox/baptist and in my view I was shocked to see false teachers everywhere. Hillsong? More like Hellsong. Just one example. I couldn't find dirt on C.H Spurgeon though. But all TV evangelists, prosperity gospel teachers, and even in good congregations the "workshop"ization of faith. And every "modern" BS hype from the US. (while we have our very own problems and own demons.)
And sorry I hate contemporary Christian music with a passion. Also think about the music industry is even more evil than Hollywood. And that's something... >"We" should never forget that we are hated by the world and should not do business with the world. (Not in a way like "repairing the world", like in Judaism). This world is f****cked beyond repair. And yet we praise God by doing something good(tm) with the time given to us. By living a good life by His laws and so on (e.g. getting married, having kids...)
Btw I like this "dialectic" in Christianity, there is always hope for a 'katechon' (see Political Theology by Carl Schmitt) delaying the anti-Christ, the ultimate end (times), so we fight against this world becoming more crazy and more evil by the day WHILE knowing that it is a battle we cannot (and should not) win. And at the same time we wish and hope for our Lord Jesus Christ to fix this world (from outside), after the end times. Christ defeated death. Everything is won. (for us) While everything is lost (for this world).
My grandpa called death "the last/final enemy". Having to go through the process of dying (and it's ramifications like very limited life time, which creates debt btw. Debt in capitalism is just the redistribution of debt t
*by* the Original sin.)... Where was I? Having to go through the process of dying is the only thing where God's adversary has any hold/grip on us.
As you can imagine I'm struggling to find a church/congregation. But I have my prejudices and maybe false pride. But boy, I believe it maybe is even more difficult in the US.
Still I'm always amazed how I feel guided through the Holy Spirit. It's an essential piece, becoming born again, receiving the Holy Spirit. And I'm absolutely not into Charismatic or Pentecostal, I think those movements are hijacked (kundalini spirit). Essential finding 2-3 like minded friends and/or believers is enough. Read the word. Pray together.
"And you will know the truth and the truth will set you free."
(John 8:32)
Markas Michmel wdym, agnostic is just an additive description to which type of theist/atheist you are. Most atheists are agnostic atheists, and most theists are gnostic theists. It's rare to hear of an agnostic theist or a gnostic atheist.
American brand of Christianity is pretty much what you described there televangelists that say that Israel is god's chosen people and other moronic stupidities, and no proper study of the philosophical undertones of what is written in the book, or context upon which you can build upon.
I think as a fellow atheist, it;s not that christianity has changed, but you grew older and "wiser" and dont think anymore as someone who recently lost his faith. As far as i know, everyone who loses his religion is bitter about it. They usually though will get over that bitterness and start respecting that other people can live differently than them andd usually CHOOSE to believe because it helps them in some way.
"unexpected things happen so that they can be dealt with in the glory of God" what a beautifully put sentence, genuinely gave me goosebumps
great video will rewatch again I'm sure of it
I really enjoy these theological talks.
that image is epic
Boomer tries to convince you to not be a doomer
Vanitas vanitatum et omnia vanitas
- Wait, it's all worthless?
- Always has been.
ay secret band
pleaes stop using these words
I really enjoy studying what is called soteriology in Christan doctrine; one of the lesser known views known as Molinism, essentially it is: God takes account of what a human would freely choose and uses their will as a part of his plan for the world. I think It's a cool idea to study and fits well with what you were talking about. Enjoy the video :)
Yes I too believe in free will and His plan cooperating together.
We're the Moriarty to His Sherlock. We can do whatever we want, but in the end, He's too smart for us.
If you believe humans have free will, you don't hold the same view as Stoic philosophy or the New Testament.
The allegory regarding the dog tied to a cart does not illustrate free will, but limited choice. The path of our life is mostly determined by forces outside of our control, and we can choose to follow or resist.
Jesus likens our lack of choice in salvation to our lack of choice in birth in the beginning of John 3, and Paul tells the believers at Ephesus that they were predestined to salvation and "conformity to His will" in Ephesians 1. These are just 2 examples of what appears many times in every New Testament book: when it comes to salvation, we have no say. Therefore, we do not have free will, but limited choice.
E
@@kelyncrandall7452
Free will is what 99% of people regard as limited choice, I don't think anyone is under the pretense that we can will everything in life.
this is more impactful than anything that has ever come out of the lips of my zoomer youth pastor. Big ups, Luke.
Student of Eastern Christian Theology student + Cybernetics Engineer here!
my OS -> minix3 (all right yes... virtualised in my fedora, although I am moving towards my own OS);
my text/programming editor -> vim.
prefered text editor for essays -> vim + latex.
Some Christianised esoticism: When facing adversity, we could try to face it as the Logos faced the cross, by "suffering impassibly" (St Cyril of Alexandria); because when we loose, we gain (Philippians 3:7-10 NRSV)
Mind blowing!
What a superb surprise! LARBS + great theological/philosophical discussion. Luke, your theology is spot on. So rare outside of local church these days to hear reminder of victory from sin and glorifying God as the whole point to it all. I'd just offer the following for additional discussion:
..."the Word was God.(2) He was with God in the beginning. Jesus is the Word - the fullfillment and all that it entails. I
What the Bible specifically says regarding Stoics - Acts 17:18-28 (Context is Paul at the Aeropagus and proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ to those who were Epicurean, Stoics, etc.). The takeaway is certainly that worship of false idols and interest in new theological discussions (just for the sake of hearing something new and interesting) may be "religious" in nature - but not ultimately beneficial -- apart from God.
Also, regarding the dog drug by cart metaphor. This is a great point to bring out that I never thought about till now. I think some of that philosophy has crept into modern Christian thinking from the standpoint of prosperity. In essence, "being a Christian will make your life so much better and easier". Certainly not a true statement, nor should it be but I see that expectation all over the place. Back on point. Being drug by a cart is not desired and possibly due to our own sinful choices (vice) but it could just be a result or God's will. I think you made that point regarding the blind beggar -- but just thinking of some of the pagan thought creep into "modern Christianity".
I could go on but it's CZcams comments so ...
Great video sir!
okay now i will call anyone with bad spelling gay and the dude won't be able to disagree
You didn’t capitalize the “I” therefore, by your own logic you are gay.
@@waynewreck4355 oi wanker you wat? i only habe seks wid me bottle o rum!
@@arrtemfly now you’re super gay
This video is spot-on. I have been studying stoicism for a while at university and really have to commend your explanation and portrayal of it.
Came because I couldn't figure out how to configure the suckless software. Now staying for the spiritual enlightenment. Good stuff luke, this is quickly becoming one of my favorite channels, especially as I go through your old videos.
I've been looking for a concise explanation of logos for a while. Thanks Luke!
Came for the free software, like most, but I’ve really been getting into your intellectual/philosophical/essay content. Really good stuff.
I clapped because I know the Demiurgon from Netflix!!
* le sôy face *
(great video! thank you.)
Logos is two fold: written logos (writing) and spoken logos (speech). Both describe a train of thought, that people can and should communicate and grasp the meaning of things through arguments. That’s where logic comes in, meaning analysing statements and making arguments to grasp this meaning of things
You forgot about Jesus the living Word, the second person of the Trinity. Read John 1:14 and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
2 videos in one day. I’ve been blessed
Amen, brother Luke!
Amen indeed
have been following for quite some time and very glad to hear the biblical talks
Thank you Luke for this interesting whirlwind tour of the philosophies that were part of the heritage of Christianity! It was very insightful.
Stoicism is older than Christianity.
@@joeschmoe3815 Keyword "heritage"
@@joeschmoe3815
So is writing and reading, use it.
@@rockytom5889 No! I will never own up to my illiteracy!
You will never catch me alive! *jumps out of window*
@@joeschmoe3815
This has the same energy as:
"History will remember you as a fool"
"WELL THAT DOESN'T MATTER, CAUSE I CAN'T READ!"
This video was absolutely amazing, thank you brother 🙏
This is some quality content; request for sources regarding stoic philosophy in it's non-popcultural form 🤠
Meditations by Marcus Aurelius is a good start.
Discourses and Enchiridion by Epictetus, Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, and Letters From a Stoic by Seneca are the most popular ones
Epictetus
Ok, this is epic
The relationships between Stoicism and Epicurean teachings and Early Christianity is remarkable. We have reduced Christianity to a simplistic salvation formula and the deeper Logos philosophy of life has been lost. Who now would look to Christianity for a deeper understanding of reality. The Church has lost the Logos and modern Christianity is dominated be versions of the Prosperity Gospel. It’s so very tragic and the older teachings need to be recovered.
I'm a simple man , when I see a new episode of not related I just smash the like button
Wow this is some quality content. I truly appreciate this video. Anything that will allow other people to know the Truth is good in my eyes! Thanks Luke. I knew you were a good guy when I started watching your videos.
So happy to have found your channel. Great wisdom. Starting from a similar place and want to be able to unshackle for freedom, good luck with the plan and excited to follow along with your channel.👍
Thanks for this video. I really like what you said about "the victory being a victory against sin, which happens in individuals". Hearing that was necessary for me.
I was learning linux from your channel and the contents are really good. But it is this video that gives me the reason to hit the subscribe button.
Based and Christpilled.
@@folksurvival
Both
Волны смерти? Где ты получил ваш имея?
Thanks. Understanding the concept of the Logos as applied to Jesus was conducive to expanding my faith. It is a wonderful way to consider or meditate upon the meaning of the Incarnation of Jesus ( the embodied Logos) when studying his parables about the Kingdom of God.
It is a productive format for meditation
for you fedoras out there! lol
😂😂😂
best episode of not related yet!
More like this. Excellent and necessary.
Well done!! I really enjoyed this. Watched 2x just to make sure I really got everything. Very nice.
Very interesting presentation. I do appreciate the efforts that you have put into this for us! Thank you!
love this show... please make it more often
I always enjoy your lectures.
I *feel* there is not an actual barrier between (good) literature, religion and philosophy. Even psychology, with their constructs like our 'subconscious', which atheists happily believe .
That reminds me of how runes were used to both spell words and cast spells.
What is atheists happily believe come from
Amazing stuff, thank you hope to hear more
A stoic and a Christian eh? Nietzche would love to have a talk with you...
I don't think Nietzsche wanted to talk to anyone. Also he wasn't an apologist he more just laid out his beliefs rather than argued for them.
Have you read the Bible. Christianity = true stoicism
@Alan Crane He lived out his philosophies, that’s why his life was miserable
@@markm2092 eh i’d argue it’s kind of a quasi-stoicism more than anything, i grew up under one of the more stoic doctrines and i can tell you from experience that most christians just have faith to perpetuate their own faith, and care nothing for the human condition which is what defines true morality the quickest
@@than9025 That stems from the belief that the glory of God is worth more than the human condition morally. The reasoning is that the human condition comes secondary to God, anyone who places it above God is acting immorally.
Loved listening to this. I’ve been following stoicism just casually for a few years since I discovered a Meditations (an incredible book, it was logos that it wasn’t destroyed). It has only been recently when I began to see connections between this and Christianity. If you strip it down to its bare basics you can see a lot of links between the two if not the same concept or foundations, which holy book would you say is closest to the foundational logos and cosmos view?
The Enchiridion is even better. Way more streamlined.
You can find it free on the net.
My bothers gather around and listen to the gospel of our apostle Luke 🙏
Best episode of Not Related imo
Someone's been hanging out on /lit/ again. Soon he's going to start talking about Evola.
I always got the feeling that Luke was more /lit/ than he was ever /g/
Luke is Butterfly
guenon is the new litcore meme apparently.
Honestly, luke is much more entertaining than /lit/, its almost insulting to associate the two.
You are wrong if you think he is browsing imageboards zoomer
@@francisnorthwood7862 of course he doesnt currently, but that doesn't mean he doesn't embody the /lit/ spirit
Wow! Thanks, Luke! ❤️
listened to this 3 times now, thank you :)
English translation of the Bible lost so much depth!
That and many other words in the English Bible.
On a related note the Celtics converted quicker than most other groups, They had a very sacrifice based religion and when they heard about Christ's sacrifice on the cross it was almost they said "oh its all over now"
Yes, also the Celtic religion already had strong understanding of the concept of Trinity, hence why all the common Celtic symbols have three in one as the central design element.
Wow sounds like totally well researched information
@@KPenceable Are you a Celtic historian, or have you at least studied the Celtic religion and history? I am Irish, so I study it sometimes in my free time.
Did you know that the Druids (the priestly class in Celtic society) were actually critical in the conversion of Celts to Christianity? Indeed, they were some of the first among the Celts to convert, understanding Christianity as the fulfillment of their religion. Indeed, it was they who went on to become the first priests and bishops of Britain.
Compare this to the resistance of other groups to Christianity, for example the Romans, who persecuted and attempted to crush it with all their being, as it was seen as a threat by many Roman Emperors.
@@Jupiter__001_ really interesting, thanks for your comment. Know any good books about the celts?
LOVE THIS
So glad I found your channel! Stay safe...many good channels are getting banned these days
That passage from John is read every time at the end of the Traditional Latin Mass
Wow, seems that they've kept to their roots or had a deeper understanding of the text
TLM gang!
We (the majority of the Roman Catholic Church) never should have left the TLM.
@@Christopher-ew7jw the Roman Catholic Church should have never left the patriarchy
@@neame-bh3uq I don't know what you meant with this. The Patriarchies (plural) are alive and well in Catholicism.
Thank you, I really enjoyed this.
God bless you Luke
Loved it!
Your best and most important video
Please do more on the logos, even some book recommendations to find out more would be appreciated!
I knew dude about these stuff. I acknowledged my myself as an orthodox christian, just because it had stoic sense to it. Then I've met stoic philosophy and couldn't find much difference, but stoicism is much more minimalistic! Nietzsche was a stoic, and had great influence on most of dictators about existential topic. So I was always distant to philosophy of nihilism as such, and I considered myself like pessimist(in physical form) and opportunist(in spiritual form, like eager for spiritual abbundance) so I discovered philosophy of absurdism (Alber Camus had most influence on my standpoint).
Great explanation, thank you!
Turns out I'm a stoic and I didn't even know it...lol
Same!
Christianity came to shit all over the pinnacle of pagan philosophies such as stoicism. Do not try to liken Christianity to purer, greater things. Christianity co-opted and corrupted great thinking and burned human intelligence into the ground.
“We are told that Jesus judged the rich with the saying 'It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of god.’
Yet we know that Plato expressed this very idea in a purer form when he said,
'It is impossible for an exceptionally good man to be exceptionally rich.’
Is one utterance more inspired than the other?”
-Celsus, On the True Doctrine.
“Just as the charlatans of the cults take advantage of the simpleton’s lack of education to lead him around by the nose, so too with the Christian teachers: they do not want to give or receive reasons for what they believe. Their favourite expressions are "Do not ask questions, just believe!” and: “Your faith will save you!” “The wisdom of the world,” they say, “is evil; to be simple is to be good.” "
-Celsus, On the True Doctrine.
"The only thing that can impress you in Notre Dame is the glory of man, not of nature, and just like all the desert religions do, the Notre Dame tries to elevate man to be above nature. This leads to man thinking he can do anything he wants to nature and anything in nature -- and to all of it and everywhere. Christianity came from the desert, and it brings only desert... spiritually, mentally, morally and so... physically."
- Varg Vikernes
I gotta say, as someone who's read Marcus Aurelius, I found this a lot more enlightening than I expected. I'm an agnostic atheist so I don't buy into any of the Bible's supernatural claims but this video did give me a new appreciation of Christian philosophy.
Amazing ... Well analysised
2:20 No, "logos," is not lost to time. It is the same word as logo, log, and logic: the symbolic representation of an abstraction (thought.)
Yay great content Luke
This is so good
Thanks Uncle Luke!! I wasn't aware of the relation between cosmos and logos in Stoic philosophy. Saint John can be confusing -- God loves the cosmos, but we are forbidden from loving the cosmos (probably in First John somewhere).
May The Algorithm bless this video.
Hello Luke. This episode came to me at a really excellent time. I also listen to Bronze Age Perverts podcast and he did an episode similar to this speaking on Gnosticism. To keep it brief, I've been trying to find the right cosmology for myself for some time now, bouncing from a more Christian approach, to denouncing Christianity and Abrahamism and now I am looking again and Christianity with a more open mindset. As you mentioned in the video there are some who view those religions as usurpers of Europe. I too was in that camp but now I am finding that perhaps what I need most is to come back to what my ancestors have done for so long. I really enjoyed this episode, it is prompting me to do some research.
@@blindmechanism6555 Do you also cringe when you coom into a sock after your evening skyrim binge?
Now, two years later, have you come to any conclusions?
@@alonsoACR Yes, I've been baptized into the Orthodox Church :)
yes i did learn something for sure. thanks very much.
Luke, you must...
BEGUM ORDODOX :DDDDDD
indeed...
@Nocturne in Black and Gold Wow, really? That's great.
I guess that the Orthodox Church is a better path for protestants to embrace orthodoxy, given that most of them have a heavy anti-Catholic baggage. Better Orthodox than a weird protestant spouting weird and illogical heterodoxy.
Become catholic
Traditional Catholic or Orthodox seem like the best paths.
I am coming back to this video years later and I finally understand it! Jonathan Pageu on youtube does a really good job of introducing you to these ideas through Maximus the Confessor.
Perfect explanation!
Are you some Stoic warrior and intellect or do you just like researching these things? Can I count on you during hard times and in battle or will you run?
Uhhh can you say based?
I've tuned in for linux content for years, but this may be my favorite video yet. Any chance for a UGA meetup?
love the aesthetic out here.
Hey Luke, I was wondering which Christianity distro is the best?
Any distro that doesn't have bloat like prosperity theology and overly mystic doctrine should be fine! Would not recommend installing anything that Bethel Church or Richard Rohr has released, full of malware...
Become Catholic
@@marcoconsorti2663 y
@@theyeking7023
Based and Biblepilled, boot it by Baptism
Christ is the core code to allow distros to exist! There is no best! There is only; you must submit to God humbly or no distro for you!
Based jesus
Great treatise! Although I'm an atheist I greatly appreciate traditional wisdom and a metaphysical approach to things. That's why I have steered clear of materialist modern atheists.
Is this hinting towards a deeper dive into phenomenology?
That did so much to help me understand my faith better. why can't the church ever make church history so accessible? moving from rules to doing i guess is the synopsis. sure puts luther's grace by faith alone into question.
EPIC stufff
"Now what exactly do you mean by Logos? Does it have anything to do with Low-Gauss?" - E. Micheal Jones
Lmao Owen Benjamin, Vox, and E M Jones know best
λόγος and τέλος, still exist in modern Greek and are being used frequently. Τέλος is used more often with the meaning of "end" (even in movie endings) or "tax". Modern greek pronunciation is like loh-wos (with w like in WHat) and teh-los (with teh like in TErritory). Idk about the "erasmian" pronunciation in ancient Greek, though.
Gonna watch this as soon as I’m done watching TV
Tarsus, Saint Paul's hometown, was a Stoic stronghold.
Very nice my brother
The word is Jesus Christ. He can and will save you. Repent,accept and follow him to freedom. Free as in free and free as in salvation.
Cringe, I very much prefer the flying spaghetti monster, definitely the real god among all the gods/goddesses. Jesus can go suck a dingdong.
@@Luan-RTget out of here redditor