Funny, but also really sad scene. Shows Bojack's hurt and anger with his mother, but also this scene is his mother reliving the trauma of her father burning her "baby" doll as a child
"worthless waste of my husbands jizem...." ah... so she really does despise Henrietta still... when i saw it the first time i really did think she was talking bojack down as bojack himself.
I feel like another reason she convinced Henrietta to give up Hollyhock was also a way to get back at her for sleeping with Butterscotch. I know she also meant well, and in the end it did work out for all of them, but I also feel like that was at least a subconscious motive
@@rosiequartzie2230 Beatrice has a very complex relationship with Henrietta. She does hate her, she loves her dearly, she wants the best for her but she also clearly wants her to feel bad. Beatrice is just a toxic person even at her best.
@@carlycrays2831 I agree. I feel like Beatrice feels some sympathy for Henrietta because they are being tied down to a worthless man. Beatrice doesn’t want Henrietta to be trapped in the same unfortunate situation and wants her to have the freedom to reach her goals in life.
The Octopus Movie in her mind that’s why she took Hollyhock from her. Henrietta was too young and not financially stable enough to raise a child. Plus she got pregnant by Butterscotch, who Beatrice thinks poisoned her life
Julia 713 I think Beatrice hated herself more than she hated BoJack. The only reason she hated BoJack was because he reminded her of her own failures so when she took Hollyhock she did so because she thought it was the right thing to do mainly because it gave Hollyhock a chance of having a good life (something I feel she wanted to give to BoJack but hated that she couldn’t so much that she ended up transporting that hate over at him).
In case you all were wondering: They give older patients suffering with Alzheimer's and dementia little baby dolls all the time in nursing homes. For most of them, it helps them go back to a better time in their lives: when they were parents since they tend to forget alot of things but one thing they never forget to do is how to love
I think the most terrifying part for me in this is that Beatrice doesn't see an a doll that's being thrown off the balcony, but an actual living baby. In her eyes, she sees a child being murdered, reliving a trauma of her early life. That really got under my skin, even before we learnt about her childhood trauma.
But it's not. She's reliving the trauma of her baby doll being burned, not a real baby. That was just a doll. But that was a traumatic incident for her, so when he threw the baby doll she probably saw her baby doll being burned in the fire. Also this was, although slightly messed up, totally understandable on Bojack's part. Like really, what the fuck?! His dying mother treats a DOLL better than she EVER treated her own, real son? That's fucked up whether she remembers it or not, and Bojack's response is TOTALLY valid. Was it the best course of action? Of course not! But it was understandable.
@@carrotandpeas She makes a lot of call backs to Henrietta's pregnancy, which was long after her baby doll was destroyed. I think in her mind the baby doll is Henrietta's baby, and somehow shes made a reality where she herself takes the baby. Afterally, tossing a baby doll in the air and dropping it would be no reason for her to fret like she did. Maybe its her minds way of trying to make a last attempt at being the mother she should have been.
I can also see the argument that some dementia patients do think the baby dolls are real..I had one tell me to take her baby because "you and that damn baby are going to drive me crazy" and another who ended up on the floor because she was trying to tuck her baby in.
Oh my god, the foreshadowing in this damn show. I don’t know if anyone else caught it, but listen closely to what Beatrice says while they’re fighting over the doll, “You worthless waste of my husband’s jizzum!” She could easily be referring to her son, but in mind, she still thinks BoJack is Henrietta. Beatrice was LITERALLY referring to when her husband got Henrietta pregnant and she had Hollyhock.
Right? The best misdirects set up more than one viable explanation for the clue they throw out. And if they’re REALLY good, you don’t even think twice about it when the clue drop.
He most likely thought of her as a ‘victim’ of his presence in her life supported by the constant stream of self-degradation in the episode. The sad part is he’s not wrong.
What makes that more twisted because Sarah lynn wanted to be an architect, she could've been portrayed with greek or victorian visuals because that's what she wanted to be, instead he remembers her for how she died.
It would've been much crueler it he knew about her trauma and did that to hurt her. He's pretty much showing his revenge to her for the way he was treated.
BlackCover95 to be fair while even if he know of her trauma and tragic childhood still never excuse the horrible and atrocious treatment and abuse of her son bojack especially bojack has every reason to hate and also never forgive her for all pain and trauma she inflicted on him
She is an abuser, they get what they ask for. Imagine growing up with parents that hates you & always insults you. That have a psychological impact & his father sometimes slap him for no reason. Parents like that don’t deserve pity & care. I don’t think the background wouldn’t do much of a difference.
If there is one thing I’ve been taught in my entire life is you never try to be awful to your mother no matter how awful she was to you, it was such a petty way to get back at her why would it matter all of a sudden when she’s an old elderly lady to be mean?
Yeah, except she was suffering from dementia. She didn't understand what was happening or who was around her, it just aggravated her trauma. There was no lesson to be learned or acknowledgement of consequences of her action or ability to process it. It's sort of the equivalent of beating the shit out of a paralyzed person because they were a piece of shit to you. They might have deserved it but you're still an asshole for doing it.
@@user-vr8ve6rt9c the bear doesn't know that, though. the bear is caring for older, sickly people and she sees this able-bodied asshole treating them with cruelty.
One thing I noticed during this scene is Hollyhock's body language during the conversation. She would take glances at Bojack and then at Beatrice like, "Oh my god. She did that?" She clearly heard what was being said. However, she knows that Beatrice has dementia now and only knows the Beatrice that's an old lady. She can't help but feel sympathy for her which is kinda understandable for someone who doesn't know the whole story
@@Orangetoastsss He’s talking about when she said “jizzim”, or however it’s spelt. Anyways during a first viewing the viewer would assume the waste of seed was referring to Bojack. After Henrietta is properly introduced in the series you find out that Beatrice’s husband bore an illegitimate child, hence the waste of his jizz.
The use of that "do it" from Bojack's internal monologue at 0:53 gets me every time, because throughout the episode Bojack is constantly seen arguing with his inner monologue, to the point where all they do is contradict each other, (i.e. Bojack's inner monologue berating him for eating cookies for breakfast, with his action directly undermining it), but here is where the desires of Bojack's inner monologue align with his actions, for once giving him its approval before he does something. This just so happens to be yet another one of his toxic actions that work to further cripple his relationships with other people, perhaps informing the audience that this inner monologue of Bojack's, which he himself chooses to put stock in, is what it is, that being a sort of devil in his ear. Even the line that follows this up, "nice arm", enforces this dysfunctional behavior of his, which just gives us a moment of internal commentary on Bojack's lamentable habit of using his own self-pity to excuse his more abhorrent actions.
Interesting detail! That really deepens your understanding of what exactly this manifestation of the voice is. It criticize the little things but bigger, more important actions (specifically ones that only satisfy a surface level desire) are encouraged. It’s only after he received outside backlash from it that he degrades himself for what he did.
Like Todd said: "You can't keep doing shitty things and then feeling bad about yourself like that makes it better." Like all people with neurotic issues, Bojack is good at beating himself up, but he seems to lack impulse control in the moment. Some would say a conscience is not just the ability to feel bad afterwards, but it's also meant to stop you from doing bad stuff in the first place. By that definition, Bojack's conscience doesn't quite work.
The thing about Alzheimer's is that for some people when they can't place someone chronologically they place them by emotion. and here is really shows. Beatrice views Bojack and Henrietta the same way, as someone she resents because of her husband.
Thanks for sharing this! There’s so much about dementia I don’t know, but it does make sense that people with dementia would revert back to responding to their surroundings emotionally, much like babies do. Your comment does give more context to her “worthless waste of her husband’s jizzum” insult. At that point, she really could have meant that to apply to Bojack AND Henrietta.
Part of me feels for Bojack. Like Todd said, the shit you faced as a kid can only excuse your behavior so much, and there was a point where Beatrice’s trauma can’t excuse how horrible of a parent and a person she was to Bojack, but again at this point she was so dementia ridden that it does become slightly uncomfortable.
Exactly That being said I can see why Bojack would’ve been angry here since Beatrice was showing more love and affection to the doll than she did to Bojack
When she says"Give me the baby back you waste of my husband's jizzum" its weird to think she's not talking about how butterscotch got her pregnant but how he got Henrietta pregnant. And that she still thinks that's Henrietta and that's something she would actually say to her.
@@shannenlibres2365 The first actual CPS agencies weren’t established until 1976 and the Child Welfare Act was passed in 1980. Bojack was 16 by then and he wouldn’t be a main focus due to his age and because his family was financially stable
Sadly, and I know this for myself, CPS isn’t good. I’m living with two abusive parents that are going through a divorce as I type this. My mother is mentally unstable, and hurts me every chance she gets, and my father is neglectful and forgetful. I would much rather not live with either, but CPS won’t do as much good, either. I’d rather stay in two households rather than be bounced back and forth.
Hà Minh Trần The bear is Tina. She actually already dealt with Bojack before when he and Herb got into a fight. I imagine she wasn’t very fond of him after that and this just gave her more reason to dislike him.
@@thesuddendemise7735 what so Beatrice deserves to get treated well. I get the whole Herb thing but Beatrice I wouldn't defend that bitch even if it killed me
@@user-vr8ve6rt9c agreed. Bojack is a shitty person i agree. And there is a lot of things i cant defend him for. But this scene, beatrice desserved it. People say beatrice isnt the same person as if it was an excuse. Then whats beatrice excuse for mentally abusing bojack throughout his childhood? Its called karma
I know BoJack wasn't completely in the right here, but as someone who grew up with a neglectful and abusive mother, it's hard not to side with BoJack on this one. It's still Beatrice's fault she's the reason he hates himself. The bad shit Bojack does is him. But disliking yourself and acting as if you failed the two people that were supposed to care about due to them actually hating you makes sense. Beatrice is the cause of him being like that. Kind of a shame that we live in a world that blindly makes excuses for mothers.
There's a huge theme of cruelty begetting cruelty in this show, but they also show how after a certain point/line you have to start becoming accountable for some of your actions as well. Still a pretty grey area there. Beatrice was unmistakably cruel to her son, but at the same time she experienced her own cruelty and unfairly turned it on Bojack. One good reason why we need mental health professionals to try to assist damaged people to not pay it forward.
ripelivejam what makes it not ok is that the woman Beatrice was, is not that fragile old woman with dementia. Beatrice was a strong but incredibly cold and cruel person. All that was left of her with dementia was a shell that wanted to protect its baby.
@@anubis7457 and that's what makes this scene actually fucked up, and not Bojack getting back at his Mom. Because for all intents and purposes, she was already dead
I can totally understand you. I felt good and relieved when he threw the baby out. I was like "YEAH! Serves you right!" And while watching the episode afterwards I was thinking to myself that Bojack, the asshole of the show is actually less of an asshole than I would have been. As I most likely would have gone about my business proudly. This shows that Bojack is hurt, but he still wants to love his mother. As later heard in Free Churro. He until the last moment hopes that they could forgive each other and share at least one happy moment. Unlike Diane, I believe in deep down. At least to a point of intention. And during this whole episode Bojack suffers to get the doll back, even when his rage and anger was totally justified.
@@markkocsicska2590 as someone who has actually had the closure and gotten to have that moment where all is forgiven and there are happy moments, I can say it actually makes it a little bit worse. Because it makes you wonder where the fuck that was when I needed it. Perhaps I'm coming at it from the wrong angle but that's how I see it.
Also because she probably reminds him of him being in his prime on horsin’ around. They both were the two most popular characters, and she most likely symbolises good times to him
Even though Hollyhock was doing right on supporting Beatrice, seeing her as an "old, poor and sweet" lady because that's how she is acting right now, it gets on my nerves that she protects her at some point, even though she is going to be drugged by her, possibly because she didn't see or dealt with her like Bojack did all his life.
@@SuperWolsey nope, Beatrice tells Bojack directly that she was drugging Hollyhock with the weight loss drug. the drugged coffee was intended for Hollyhock the whole time
@@SuperWolsey Beatrice has this very outdated idea that women must be beautiful at all costs. She was given diet pills from a young age and used them to stay thin. The thing is, despite her clear hatred of both Henrietta and her complex feelings about Hollyhock, she also seems to love both of them. She really did think Hollyhock was a beautiful girl who just needed some "help" staying thin, so she drugged her.
In Hollyhock’s defense, she has no context for how terrible Beatrice was, and her only reference of it was how Bojack (someone who is pretty unreliable and tends to paint himself as the victim a lot) would recount to her, and he didn’t really go in depth about it. All she sees is a grown man mocking his dementia-addled elderly mother.
bojack expressing his anger on the doll because of the awful treatment of his mother is actually understandable,yet i don't know why i feel bad for beatrice too 2022 edit: It's been years and this comment is still pumping with likes..wow
Because she’s at a point in her life that she can’t fix what she did wrong and she might not even remember it clearly. And she seemed to think the doll was a real baby to some extent
Beatrice kinda deserved it, but after time's arrow, thinking about this scene, and the time where her father burns her doll, it made me feel real shitty for a while
Breatrice deserved it, but she’s not who this woman is now. Dementia really changes a person, so much so that who they used to be isn’t really “there” anymore. In reality, bojack’s revenge was understandable, but he exacted it upon a woman who barely knows what’s happening, who she’s really talking to, or what she did. At this point in her life, it’s too futile for bojack to really let his feelings be known to her. She might understand, but it isn’t the same, and it probably won’t satiate him.
@@pokaay3163 Agreed That being said his statement of “where was that keen parenting insight 50 years ago?” at 0:03 is spot on. She showed more love and affection to that doll than she ever did to Bojack
I’m not the biggest fan of Beatrice (although I think she has one of the most interesting personalities in the show), but her scream of pure pain will be engraved in my mind forever.
it’s sad. bojack doesn’t owe her anything and shouldn’t even love her after all she’s done, but that’s not his mom anymore. that’s an old woman with alzheimer’s who doesn’t even remember all the awful things she’s done in her past and couldn’t be ridiculed for it at that point.
@supercookiegameuse2634 the child in her died the moment the doll wad thrown in the fire so when she got the doll now it could be symbolising a revival of the child
I think a lot of people misread this scene; arguing over whether or not Beatrice deserved it. The point of the scene is about retribution: in the moment, it may be the only thing that makes sense to you, but after it’s over, all your left is feeling guilty and shitty. You may not need to forgive, but blind retribution only leads to more anger, resentment and hatred.
"Bojack, don't-" "Do *it* " Note how the dialogue transition is framed as though Bojack is finishing Hollyhock's sentence. He's aware that he's about to fuck up again, with the consequences that come with it, but follows through anyways, then feels like shit upon the immediate regret. Meta as fuck.
coming back to this scene after time's arrow just hits so... different. it's like, you can see both perspectives and they're both equally so heartbreaking. one one hand, you have bojack who is still seething with hate and resentment towards his mother, and seeing her give genuine love and care to a doll when she couldn't give it to him for all these years naturally makes him angry and rightfully so. but for beatrice, she doesn't see this as just any random doll, but as a connection to her childhood and past. so when bojack throws away the doll, beatrice just re-lives that traumatic moment all over again. this scene is fascinatingly crafted and gives the audience such a brilliant insight into two very different characters' lives, who have both been affected by different forms of generational abuse and trauma
Yeah. This is why I'm no contact with my parents. My anger would make me act out like this if I was around them.It's better for both of us to not be in the same room.
People in the comments keep saying weather “Beatrice deserved it” or if “Bojack was being cruel” but tbh I think this scene was kind of showing how horrible their relationship is. Bojack is furious after seeing Beatrice ‘mother’ the doll when he never had a good mothering moment from her. And Beatrice is reliving trauma after seeing him throw it off the balcony. So I think it’s not about who’s in the wrong I think it’s more that they’re both wrong for each other.
I like how the worthless waste of my husband's jism can refer both to Henrietta and to BoJack, although it makes sense here that BoJack thinks that it refers to himself
Seeing the doll being thrown and Beatrice’s reaction forshadows what happens In Time’s Arrow when her father threw her doll in the fire. I feel like at this point, she’s having flashbacks of what her father did to her “baby”. Someone in a position of power harming her psychologically. At this point, Bojack is in a position of power since Beatrice is suffering from dementia and I feel like she’s hallucinating him as her father when he throws the doll.
The way you phrased it made things worst, she did relieve her trauma of her dad burning her doll but hallucinated BoJack as Henriatta so she also relieved the moment when she took away Henriatta's baby and that reminded her how bad of a person she is and in Time's Arrow we know how much that impacts her (the memory litterally stops here with a scream from Henriatta)
I think this scene is quite impactful, because we feel sympathy for Beatrice because she sees that doll as a real baby and is essentially witnessing it being murdered, but also we are more connected to BoJack and his story, knowing she did not treat him right, and might feel a mean satisfaction when he's proving that point - probably how he feels having done it anyways. I think that's really cool
0:34 I think she was starting to understand it a little bit, if not question what he was saying with how specific it was. The way she looked from one to the other & then possibly began to understand, but at the same time probably doubted it due to how Bojack's mom is currently. She probably couldn't see her as such a horrible parent to him.
I can't help but feel a little for Bojack. Having a parent not give a singular fuck about your existence, only to finally buckle up and be a parent to someone else when you're grown, it fucking hurts. No matter what you try to tell yourself and rationalize, it's gonna hurt like hell, and piss you off.
I still feel so bad for BJ when he saw his mother give all her love and support which he didn't receive in his childhood to an inanimate doll.Also,when he felt terrible,Hollyhock couldn't understand him and was on Beatrice's side.
Under any other circumstances, Bojack would totally be the "bad guy", but Beatrice was such a horrible person (whether she remembers it or not) that I think she totally deserved it.
+Alex Rees - Yeah. I agree that *Beatrice* had that coming. It was shitty for Bojack to do that but you can empathize for the both of them. But at this point in time that wasn't Beatrice, in a sense. Her mind was lost due to dementia and as Hollyhock put it, "that's just an old lady". Precisely like Bojack, just because of her childhood that doesn't give her an excuse. She was still a shitty woman who took out her emotions on others. She's certainly one of *my* personal favourites, I love her, but she was horrendous.
@@biteme9486 Yeah, even for the most evil people in the world can be cruel, we still felt sympathy for having a hard time in their lives. Evil people deserved to be rot even their innocence was lost.
Not just Beatrice Horseman, but Chicha from The Emperor’s New Groove, Beautiful Goregous from Jimmy Neutron, and obviously Eda Clawthorne from The Owl House are Wendie Malick’s best voice roles!
I cracked up when she goes, "Give me the baby back, you worthless waste of my husband's jissm!" And Bojack responds with, "Aha! So, you DO know who I am!" ahahaha. I know everyone is pointing out the fact that she truly believes it's Henrietta but still, funny.
Although I feel for Beatrice's life, I feel for her past, I _do not_ respect her. She took her child, who was a WILLING child, and emotionally and even sometimes physically neglected him. I understand that she was miserable as a young mother and wife with an asshole husband but she is a truly terrible witch despite her past. I even wept during Beatrice's flashbacks. Even Beatrice herself recognized how much of a terrible mother and person she had turned out to be. She may be a well-constructed character but I do not respect her.
Even with the reveal of Beatrice's childhood, she still had the chance to be better. Todd said himself to Bojack that it doesn't matter if he took Drugs or Alchohol or even his childhood, he still could be better
The brilliance of this show-when Bea called Bojack a "worthless waste of my husbands jism" and then quickly said "Govern yourself Henrietta", my first thought(other than _ew)_ was the immediacy of those two statements-NO ONE regains and loses their memories that quickly, Alzheimer's or not. And that made me realize and ask myself, is Henrietta real? And was she Butterscotch's _lover?_ Sure enough, Time's Arrow and and the big twist is revealed. Such a perfect hint for the observant listener to find. Amazing.
Bojack wanted to get back at his mother for loving doll more than she loves him. But Beatrice isnt the same woman that raised him. Instead, he Just retraumatised an old demented woman who cant even remember what she did for the past years. She doesnt ven know Bojack is with her right now. She thinks Henrietta is Just acting weird all of a sudden. She sees Henrietta. Its understandable why he wants to make his mom feel bad. She hurt him. Badly. But the only person he had a chance to hurt and did hurt is little girl trapped in an old woman's body. Thats what Beatrice is now. She doesnt remember the event that made her such a terrible parent, she gets to expiriance parenthood without the dread of genrational trauma but what she did wont leave her be. Karma didnt get her when she was healthy, so now she suffers when she is an Almost different person. At the end, they both are victims and abusers(not only to each other, but to others as well). Neither's actions can be excused, but it sure hurts when you understand them both. And just to add, poor Holyjock! She probably gained trauma herself while living with the two. They arent exactly the best caretakers. Far from it...... (not giving spoilers away)
I love how the show makes you sympathetic for even bj’s abusive mother that’s genuinely just evil at this point & it makes sense Bj was this close to making up with his mom but his ego took over and just wanted revenge
How scary how the tables turned. Bea abused and neglected BoJack as a child and he never quite knew why. Now BoJack is causing Bea pain and she has no clue why.
Sheesh, that internalization of all the emotional & verbal abuse he went through as a kid, to the point that voice became his own personal dialogue. Poor Bojack.
Thing is that we as the audience know and understand why bojack did this. But hollyhock and tina dont, they dont know about the horrid things beatrice has said and done to him as a child, there is no context for them, all they see is a spiteful 50 year old son who upset his dementia riddled mother for no reason.
Hollyhock can’t ever really understand why Bojack did this. All she thinks is “I get his childhood wasn’t the best, but that can’t ALL be true, right?” She had 8 parents shower her with nothing but love, affection, and encouragement for 18 years. Bojack didn’t even get one parent to do any of that for him. Edit: Just one example of what I mean: Beatrice: Don’t you dare cry, Bojack. Hollyhock’s dads: Don’t feel bad about feeling bad.
Took me way too long (until now) to realize “waste of my husbands jizzem” was referring to Henrietta, but bojack thought she was talking about him. Also love the “it’s true, jackass”
That’s super shitty. BoJack wasn’t punishing his mother; he was punishing - or rather _mistreating_ - someone old, dying, and with no idea as to who he was. What good did it do him? What good does seeking vengeance do anyone?
part of me feels bad for her while the other part of me knows damn well she had it coming. You can't always get away with abuse because sometimes your past will always comes right back at you that way. People may not always remember what they did for you and what they did to you, but they will always remember what they feel about you.
@@carrotandpeas ok dude we get it we watched the show thing is we're talking about Beatrice not Bojack, She thought that the doll is a real baby and that Bojack threw a real baby off his balcony
@@carrotandpeas Imagine that Beatrice is mentally unwell and you still think that she deserves Bojack's revenge. Even Bojack realised his mistake at the end. Your values are worse than Bojack's. LOL.
@@flyingpenandpaper6119 lol no I just hate abusive parents who, on purpose or not, makes their children feel the need to treat them with any semblance of respect after what they've put them through. Might just be the fact that I have experience with abusive parental figures, but it just really irks me when abusers get a pass because of their own mental issues. It doesn't matter if she's "mentally unwell", she treated Bojack like shit his entire life, and I personally feel that it wouldn't be undeserved for her to be treated like shit in return. Though that's just my opinion.
I wouldn't say that Betarice 'deserved' it, because that just flattens everything down to a petty game of emotional revenges but... she definitely had this coming. She practically caused this to happen. Is Bojack being a mature enough person to think about how him being cruel to the current state of Beatrice means nothing?No. But you also have to consider the fact that one of the main reasons why he failed to develop a decent personality is the traumas that Betarice literally shoved into his brain, 100% intentionally, too. So you know, when you plant an apple seed you get an apple tree. When you plant a pear seed you get a pear tree. When you raise your kid to be a self-centered prick with tons of unresolved childhood traumas, you get this. It's that simple. I feel terrible for Hollyhock though. Yikes
Part of me thinks she was so upset that doll was thrown because one her dementia brought our another side of her that we taken as a child...but also...notice how doll looks very familiar to something precious that she lost AS a child...her doll
It’s so easy to feel justified doing a bad thing to someone who it feels like ruined your life. But then it all comes back to reality when you realize you still HURT them and you didn’t ever really want to hurt them. You just wanted them to recognize how fucking much they hurt you.
I feel bad for her because of her trauma but I still feel she kinda deserved this scene. She was incredibly abusive and neglectful, and her traumas don't make those okay, just like all the traumas she inflicted on bojack don't make his actions toward penny or herb or Sarah Lynn okay.
Probably what I'm about to write is an unpopular opinion... at first the scene was funny af for me when he started juggling the dolll around, but after seeing beatrice backstory later, her traumas and how she suffered, I felt really bad for her. I know she wasn't the best mother to bojack, but seeing her that vulnerable and crying made me sad...
Trauma is an explanation not an excuse. You can feel bad for her, but its also important to acknowledge that she put Bojack through a lot and there is no excuse for that. Bojack was completely valid in this scenario. He wasn't right to do it, but it was understandable, totally valid, and even expected tbh.
@@turgburg4890 no. Neither of their traumas were excuses for how they reacted. It's understandable why they reacted as they did, but not okay. And I feel like it's also worth acknowledging the dynamic of a mother and son being different than a situation like this between just two people who know each other.
![[EDIT] BoJack Horseman: BoJack's 1st & 2nd Solo Interviews with Biscuits Braxby](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/16rmCIEzTZE/mqdefault.jpg)
![[EDIT] BoJack Horseman: BoJack's 1st & 2nd Solo Interviews with Biscuits Braxby](/img/tr.png)
Funny, but also really sad scene. Shows Bojack's hurt and anger with his mother, but also this scene is his mother reliving the trauma of her father burning her "baby" doll as a child
People who suffer from dementia regress into their younger years. In their minds, they relive their youth. So that also makes it realistic.
I think its because bojack reminds her of her maid that was having an affair with her husband and the doll was bojack
What a rollercoaster!
You can tell because she cries & screams exactly the same, more or less.
@Simudzo Chitondo
*Y E E T S THE BABY DOLL*
I'm sorry but that quick "it's true jackass" thought Bojack has is really funny to me
ME TOO
IKR!!!
Yep
I laughed for like 5 min from
That 😂
Don't worry I burst out laughing too
"worthless waste of my husbands jizem...." ah... so she really does despise Henrietta still... when i saw it the first time i really did think she was talking bojack down as bojack himself.
That's great foreshadowing.
Dude, I literally played through this part of the video and thought the same thing, and then saw this
I feel like another reason she convinced Henrietta to give up Hollyhock was also a way to get back at her for sleeping with Butterscotch. I know she also meant well, and in the end it did work out for all of them, but I also feel like that was at least a subconscious motive
@@rosiequartzie2230 Beatrice has a very complex relationship with Henrietta. She does hate her, she loves her dearly, she wants the best for her but she also clearly wants her to feel bad.
Beatrice is just a toxic person even at her best.
@@carlycrays2831 I agree. I feel like Beatrice feels some sympathy for Henrietta because they are being tied down to a worthless man. Beatrice doesn’t want Henrietta to be trapped in the same unfortunate situation and wants her to have the freedom to reach her goals in life.
When Beatrice says “You are unfit to be a parent Henrietta”, that really got me 😧
The Octopus Movie in her mind that’s why she took Hollyhock from her. Henrietta was too young and not financially stable enough to raise a child. Plus she got pregnant by Butterscotch, who Beatrice thinks poisoned her life
Julia 713 I think Beatrice hated herself more than she hated BoJack. The only reason she hated BoJack was because he reminded her of her own failures so when she took Hollyhock she did so because she thought it was the right thing to do mainly because it gave Hollyhock a chance of having a good life (something I feel she wanted to give to BoJack but hated that she couldn’t so much that she ended up transporting that hate over at him).
Bojack derps
*It's true jack ass*
@@slushg3326 that's just mirror's what her father did burning all the positions because of being 'weak'
She called him Henrietta
In case you all were wondering: They give older patients suffering with Alzheimer's and dementia little baby dolls all the time in nursing homes. For most of them, it helps them go back to a better time in their lives: when they were parents since they tend to forget alot of things but one thing they never forget to do is how to love
also when the baby is thrown out the window bea relives the trauma of when joseph burnt her doll.
Rumpleforeskin12 awww 🥰
what happens if theres someone there who wasnt a parent?
Well I guess Beatrice forgot how to do that 50 years ago and look what karma had to say about it
Bojack: *_Y E E T S B A B Y D O L L_*
1:33 - Damn it I just realised. There's a blind man and a service dog.
THE FUCKING ATTENTION TO DETAIL IN THIS FUCKING SHOW
Nice, never noticed it before
I saw the guy in the shades but it cut out before I noticed the dog.
Damn. All the little details you realize rewatching the show!
These details with these characters are amazing
It's weird because the things she says apply to both Bojack and Henrietta
Anonymous AKA: Anonymous And Herself.
That's the point of those lines. Duh.
Anonymous AKA: Anonymous hey you leave Henrietta out of this
Guys it’s her dementia she actually thought she was talking to Henrietta that’s what’s so fucked up
@@deltaco1166 Yeah
I think the most terrifying part for me in this is that Beatrice doesn't see an a doll that's being thrown off the balcony, but an actual living baby.
In her eyes, she sees a child being murdered, reliving a trauma of her early life.
That really got under my skin, even before we learnt about her childhood trauma.
But it's not. She's reliving the trauma of her baby doll being burned, not a real baby. That was just a doll. But that was a traumatic incident for her, so when he threw the baby doll she probably saw her baby doll being burned in the fire.
Also this was, although slightly messed up, totally understandable on Bojack's part. Like really, what the fuck?! His dying mother treats a DOLL better than she EVER treated her own, real son? That's fucked up whether she remembers it or not, and Bojack's response is TOTALLY valid. Was it the best course of action? Of course not! But it was understandable.
@@carrotandpeas ngl this is one of my favorite scenes because of how much it carries in it
@@carrotandpeas She had dementia. She barely knew where she was.
So yeah, understandable or not, it was a true dick move by Bojack.
@@carrotandpeas She makes a lot of call backs to Henrietta's pregnancy, which was long after her baby doll was destroyed. I think in her mind the baby doll is Henrietta's baby, and somehow shes made a reality where she herself takes the baby. Afterally, tossing a baby doll in the air and dropping it would be no reason for her to fret like she did. Maybe its her minds way of trying to make a last attempt at being the mother she should have been.
I can also see the argument that some dementia patients do think the baby dolls are real..I had one tell me to take her baby because "you and that damn baby are going to drive me crazy" and another who ended up on the floor because she was trying to tuck her baby in.
Oh my god, the foreshadowing in this damn show. I don’t know if anyone else caught it, but listen closely to what Beatrice says while they’re fighting over the doll, “You worthless waste of my husband’s jizzum!” She could easily be referring to her son, but in mind, she still thinks BoJack is Henrietta. Beatrice was LITERALLY referring to when her husband got Henrietta pregnant and she had Hollyhock.
noticed this on my second time through... great call forward
Right? The best misdirects set up more than one viable explanation for the clue they throw out. And if they’re REALLY good, you don’t even think twice about it when the clue drop.
If she thinks she was talking to Henrietta, why would she refer to her as a product of his jizz? Unless she means where he put his jizz.
I think so too! She was referring to Henrietta not Bojack and I think she was the doll as Bojack.
And bojack gets thrown into a pool so to speak
i love how whenever hes having those thoughts, he makes Sarah Lynn out to be so beautiful with planets and stars around her head
I think it connects to how much he thought of her, and also how she died in a planetarium.
@@sparkybraincell2159 and how he's like a father to her ever since they were on Horsin' Around.
He most likely thought of her as a ‘victim’ of his presence in her life supported by the constant stream of self-degradation in the episode. The sad part is he’s not wrong.
@@rougethebat8882 shit father
What makes that more twisted because Sarah lynn wanted to be an architect, she could've been portrayed with greek or victorian visuals because that's what she wanted to be, instead he remembers her for how she died.
If you're mean to your kid he'll be cruel to you in return.
By taking advantage of your Alzheimer’s
Silent Spartan913 that’s why he said “cruel”
@@silentspartan913 it's payback and even if it wasn't totally right it was valid and understandable and...yeah it was totally deserved
Kawi i know, that’s how things go when you raise children badly
Well I guess the phrase if you fight fire with fire the world would go up in smoke means nothing to them
It would've been much crueler it he knew about her trauma and did that to hurt her. He's pretty much showing his revenge to her for the way he was treated.
If he did, I’d like to imagine he’d be much more understanding (though definitely still dickish).
BlackCover95 to be fair while even if he know of her trauma and tragic childhood still never excuse the horrible and atrocious treatment and abuse of her son bojack especially bojack has every reason to hate and also never forgive her for all pain and trauma she inflicted on him
Herb didn’t forgive Bojack, for just one event.
Bojack was pretty much abused for years, he has a right to not forgive her.
@@TraceLight
He didn’t care about the job, he cared about their friendship
She is an abuser, they get what they ask for. Imagine growing up with parents that hates you & always insults you. That have a psychological impact & his father sometimes slap him for no reason. Parents like that don’t deserve pity & care.
I don’t think the background wouldn’t do much of a difference.
as weird as it sounds, beatrice kinda deserves it.
It's logic, I would've just sent her to another nursing home as soon as she came out of the first one
She kinda does, but she doesnt even know whats going on now, her mind is no longer with her, so it was still cruel
OBJECTION
0:30
actually this is one of those things in her past to turn her into a bitch to bojack
@@warhorse5152 that doesn't make it okay. That's part of the show. See the "it's you" rant from todd
I mean...Beatrice totally deserved this.. Hollyhock didn't need to see it tho
true that
If there is one thing I’ve been taught in my entire life is you never try to be awful to your mother no matter how awful she was to you, it was such a petty way to get back at her why would it matter all of a sudden when she’s an old elderly lady to be mean?
@@johnnymelopochino6076 Yeah it might be petty, but still Beatrice was an asshole to Bojack.
Okay and Beatrice didn’t deserve what turned her into who she became...
Yeah, except she was suffering from dementia. She didn't understand what was happening or who was around her, it just aggravated her trauma. There was no lesson to be learned or acknowledgement of consequences of her action or ability to process it.
It's sort of the equivalent of beating the shit out of a paralyzed person because they were a piece of shit to you. They might have deserved it but you're still an asshole for doing it.
“Where was that keen parenting insight 50 years ago?”
That hit me tbh-
Yeah. I understand why he got so mad lol
why do you type like this, you dumb shit?
It’s weird how the nurse bear looking after bojacks mother was the same one looking after herb
oh I love her. Top character of the show
It's because she is a CARE BEAR
Lol she must hate BoJack
Well Herb attacked Bojack so that was self defense and Beatrice was the worst parent in the world so I don't get why she's mad.
@@user-vr8ve6rt9c the bear doesn't know that, though. the bear is caring for older, sickly people and she sees this able-bodied asshole treating them with cruelty.
1:40 the way he just imagined Sarah Lynn broke my heart a little
that whole animation is adorable
I didn’t notice the stars and planets at first, my god.
@@MisterJohnDoe that's supposed to represent the planetarium, right? The place where she filmed her _Prickly Muffin_ video and where she died.
1:38
"Why did you do that?"
Hollyhock, did you listen to anything he just said?!
One thing I noticed during this scene is Hollyhock's body language during the conversation. She would take glances at Bojack and then at Beatrice like, "Oh my god. She did that?" She clearly heard what was being said.
However, she knows that Beatrice has dementia now and only knows the Beatrice that's an old lady. She can't help but feel sympathy for her which is kinda understandable for someone who doesn't know the whole story
That doll was pretty adorable..
Drake Deardorff It is, isn't it? I thought I was the only one. :P
Yes especially with it's creepy doll eyes
I want one
0:40 It's so clever when you rewatch this and realise that she really was talking to Henrietta all along.
She calls him Henrietta but ok
@@Orangetoastsss ok what's your point... He did said Henrietta
@@Orangetoastsss you were born to be dumb like Bojack
@@Orangetoastsss He’s talking about when she said “jizzim”, or however it’s spelt. Anyways during a first viewing the viewer would assume the waste of seed was referring to Bojack. After Henrietta is properly introduced in the series you find out that Beatrice’s husband bore an illegitimate child, hence the waste of his jizz.
BoJack: "I'M UNFIT-"
BoJack to himself: *it's true, jackass*
pure comedy gold
The use of that "do it" from Bojack's internal monologue at 0:53 gets me every time, because throughout the episode Bojack is constantly seen arguing with his inner monologue, to the point where all they do is contradict each other, (i.e. Bojack's inner monologue berating him for eating cookies for breakfast, with his action directly undermining it), but here is where the desires of Bojack's inner monologue align with his actions, for once giving him its approval before he does something. This just so happens to be yet another one of his toxic actions that work to further cripple his relationships with other people, perhaps informing the audience that this inner monologue of Bojack's, which he himself chooses to put stock in, is what it is, that being a sort of devil in his ear. Even the line that follows this up, "nice arm", enforces this dysfunctional behavior of his, which just gives us a moment of internal commentary on Bojack's lamentable habit of using his own self-pity to excuse his more abhorrent actions.
Interesting detail! That really deepens your understanding of what exactly this manifestation of the voice is. It criticize the little things but bigger, more important actions (specifically ones that only satisfy a surface level desire) are encouraged. It’s only after he received outside backlash from it that he degrades himself for what he did.
Like Todd said: "You can't keep doing shitty things and then feeling bad about yourself like that makes it better." Like all people with neurotic issues, Bojack is good at beating himself up, but he seems to lack impulse control in the moment. Some would say a conscience is not just the ability to feel bad afterwards, but it's also meant to stop you from doing bad stuff in the first place. By that definition, Bojack's conscience doesn't quite work.
Excellent analysis!
“waste of my husbands jizzum” that line makes much more sense when you find out who henrietta is and her relations to beatrice and butterscotch
The thing about Alzheimer's is that for some people when they can't place someone chronologically they place them by emotion. and here is really shows. Beatrice views Bojack and Henrietta the same way, as someone she resents because of her husband.
Thanks for sharing this! There’s so much about dementia I don’t know, but it does make sense that people with dementia would revert back to responding to their surroundings emotionally, much like babies do.
Your comment does give more context to her “worthless waste of her husband’s jizzum” insult. At that point, she really could have meant that to apply to Bojack AND Henrietta.
0:08 That fucking moment
“Im unfit?”
“Its true jackass”
It’s hilarious
That is how my mind works and I’m starting to get scared
Part of me feels for Bojack. Like Todd said, the shit you faced as a kid can only excuse your behavior so much, and there was a point where Beatrice’s trauma can’t excuse how horrible of a parent and a person she was to Bojack, but again at this point she was so dementia ridden that it does become slightly uncomfortable.
Exactly
That being said I can see why Bojack would’ve been angry here since Beatrice was showing more love and affection to the doll than she did to Bojack
When she says"Give me the baby back you waste of my husband's jizzum" its weird to think she's not talking about how butterscotch got her pregnant but how he got Henrietta pregnant. And that she still thinks that's Henrietta and that's something she would actually say to her.
Whoa 🤭
By this point, Beatrice already has a lot of complex emotions about Henrietta and now she thinks that Henrietta is being ungrateful.
@@carlycrays2831 well, basically henrietta such a whore
0:23 holy crap somebody shoulda called CPS on Bojack's parents back then. That was way too specific to be made up
He was raised in the 60s
@@Im_alivexx ah so there wasn't cps yet in the 60s?
@@shannenlibres2365 The first actual CPS agencies weren’t established until 1976 and the Child Welfare Act was passed in 1980. Bojack was 16 by then and he wouldn’t be a main focus due to his age and because his family was financially stable
Sadly, and I know this for myself, CPS isn’t good. I’m living with two abusive parents that are going through a divorce as I type this. My mother is mentally unstable, and hurts me every chance she gets, and my father is neglectful and forgetful. I would much rather not live with either, but CPS won’t do as much good, either. I’d rather stay in two households rather than be bounced back and forth.
@@RememberYourSafeword i’m so sorry to hear this. all my love to you. ❤️🩹
At 1:15 the bear nurse gave Bojack a side glance. She’s quietly judging him.
Hà Minh Trần The bear is Tina. She actually already dealt with Bojack before when he and Herb got into a fight. I imagine she wasn’t very fond of him after that and this just gave her more reason to dislike him.
@@thesuddendemise7735 what so Beatrice deserves to get treated well. I get the whole Herb thing but Beatrice I wouldn't defend that bitch even if it killed me
The Sudden Demise He also never got her that milk.
@@user-vr8ve6rt9c agreed. Bojack is a shitty person i agree. And there is a lot of things i cant defend him for. But this scene, beatrice desserved it. People say beatrice isnt the same person as if it was an excuse. Then whats beatrice excuse for mentally abusing bojack throughout his childhood? Its called karma
She most likely didnt know about Beatrice's abuse to Bojack
In her mind thats just a tipical adult son abusing his mentally incapacitated mother
1:03 Not gonna lie, that actually was terrifying
i don't understand what's terrifying about it....
That was a full on scary-Bilbo level SHRIEK. It was definitely terrifying lol
@@shadowboy2818 I assume the doll's squeak of pure terror but tbh it just made it funnier to me
I felt sorry for Beatrice tbh
After seeing the eleventh episode this hits much harder.
I know BoJack wasn't completely in the right here, but as someone who grew up with a neglectful and abusive mother, it's hard not to side with BoJack on this one. It's still Beatrice's fault she's the reason he hates himself. The bad shit Bojack does is him. But disliking yourself and acting as if you failed the two people that were supposed to care about due to them actually hating you makes sense. Beatrice is the cause of him being like that.
Kind of a shame that we live in a world that blindly makes excuses for mothers.
There's a huge theme of cruelty begetting cruelty in this show, but they also show how after a certain point/line you have to start becoming accountable for some of your actions as well. Still a pretty grey area there. Beatrice was unmistakably cruel to her son, but at the same time she experienced her own cruelty and unfairly turned it on Bojack. One good reason why we need mental health professionals to try to assist damaged people to not pay it forward.
ripelivejam what makes it not ok is that the woman Beatrice was, is not that fragile old woman with dementia. Beatrice was a strong but incredibly cold and cruel person. All that was left of her with dementia was a shell that wanted to protect its baby.
@@anubis7457 and that's what makes this scene actually fucked up, and not Bojack getting back at his Mom. Because for all intents and purposes, she was already dead
I can totally understand you. I felt good and relieved when he threw the baby out. I was like "YEAH! Serves you right!" And while watching the episode afterwards I was thinking to myself that Bojack, the asshole of the show is actually less of an asshole than I would have been. As I most likely would have gone about my business proudly.
This shows that Bojack is hurt, but he still wants to love his mother. As later heard in Free Churro. He until the last moment hopes that they could forgive each other and share at least one happy moment.
Unlike Diane, I believe in deep down. At least to a point of intention. And during this whole episode Bojack suffers to get the doll back, even when his rage and anger was totally justified.
@@markkocsicska2590 as someone who has actually had the closure and gotten to have that moment where all is forgiven and there are happy moments, I can say it actually makes it a little bit worse. Because it makes you wonder where the fuck that was when I needed it. Perhaps I'm coming at it from the wrong angle but that's how I see it.
I find it interesting how Sarah Lynn is drawn as an angel
Its because that's how Bojack saw her. Probably because of her being on Horsin' Around tbh
She def went to hell
@@MotherOfTheSea I loved her but lmfaooo
and with the planets and stars around her head
Also because she probably reminds him of him being in his prime on horsin’ around. They both were the two most popular characters, and she most likely symbolises good times to him
Even though Hollyhock was doing right on supporting Beatrice, seeing her as an "old, poor and sweet" lady because that's how she is acting right now, it gets on my nerves that she protects her at some point, even though she is going to be drugged by her, possibly because she didn't see or dealt with her like Bojack did all his life.
Because she suddenly saw Henrietta in her. That was trying to drug Bojack but Hollyhock got the mug by mistake
@@SuperWolsey nope, Beatrice tells Bojack directly that she was drugging Hollyhock with the weight loss drug. the drugged coffee was intended for Hollyhock the whole time
Also her referring to Hollyhock’s birth mother as a “waste of her husband’s jizm” is an added indirect insult towards Hollyhock too.
@@SuperWolsey Beatrice has this very outdated idea that women must be beautiful at all costs. She was given diet pills from a young age and used them to stay thin. The thing is, despite her clear hatred of both Henrietta and her complex feelings about Hollyhock, she also seems to love both of them. She really did think Hollyhock was a beautiful girl who just needed some "help" staying thin, so she drugged her.
In Hollyhock’s defense, she has no context for how terrible Beatrice was, and her only reference of it was how Bojack (someone who is pretty unreliable and tends to paint himself as the victim a lot) would recount to her, and he didn’t really go in depth about it. All she sees is a grown man mocking his dementia-addled elderly mother.
bojack expressing his anger on the doll because of the awful treatment of his mother is actually understandable,yet i don't know why i feel bad for beatrice too
2022 edit: It's been years and this comment is still pumping with likes..wow
@Nerdy Alien probably yeah,still we can't entirely point fingers to none of them.
Because she’s at a point in her life that she can’t fix what she did wrong and she might not even remember it clearly. And she seemed to think the doll was a real baby to some extent
It's a disaster for everyone involved and that's what makes it heart wrenching to me
Because it’s no longer Beatrice, it’s just an old woman
We know she wasnt the best mom, but no matter how shit she was, making someone feel like that makes you as shitty as that person
Beatrice kinda deserved it, but after time's arrow, thinking about this scene, and the time where her father burns her doll, it made me feel real shitty for a while
Except it’s not the Beatrice, he did that to a confused elderly dementia riddled lady
@@pokemonmanic3595 except it...is beatrice, his mother, wth?
Then you remember that it’s Beatrice
Breatrice deserved it, but she’s not who this woman is now. Dementia really changes a person, so much so that who they used to be isn’t really “there” anymore. In reality, bojack’s revenge was understandable, but he exacted it upon a woman who barely knows what’s happening, who she’s really talking to, or what she did. At this point in her life, it’s too futile for bojack to really let his feelings be known to her. She might understand, but it isn’t the same, and it probably won’t satiate him.
@@pokaay3163 Agreed
That being said his statement of “where was that keen parenting insight 50 years ago?” at 0:03 is spot on.
She showed more love and affection to that doll than she ever did to Bojack
Oh, now I get the “waste oh my husband’s ‘jizm’.” 😟😔
Makes me wonder what else they called “nut” back in the day
I’m not the biggest fan of Beatrice (although I think she has one of the most interesting personalities in the show), but her scream of pure pain will be engraved in my mind forever.
“It’s true jackass” XD
it’s sad. bojack doesn’t owe her anything and shouldn’t even love her after all she’s done, but that’s not his mom anymore. that’s an old woman with alzheimer’s who doesn’t even remember all the awful things she’s done in her past and couldn’t be ridiculed for it at that point.
no she remembers how she treated bojack. I don't think she's sorry. She just doesn't think Bojack is Bojack though, she thinks it's Henrietta
She’s not innocent she was drugging hollyhock
Yeah but that doesn't mean we should bring very young Beatrice into this....poor child didn't deserve her doll to be thrown off a roof
idk man she did this to herself
@supercookiegameuse2634 the child in her died the moment the doll wad thrown in the fire so when she got the doll now it could be symbolising a revival of the child
“It’s because you made them love you.”
I know that this line was a quick throwaway but it just. It just hit me really fucking hard. Kind of teared up.
"Please stop fighting, all these shouting is bad for the baby". Its odd knowing that her husband and her used to fight when Bojack was a baby.
“I’M unfit?”
“It’s true jackass”
😂 I love that so much!
I think a lot of people misread this scene; arguing over whether or not Beatrice deserved it. The point of the scene is about retribution: in the moment, it may be the only thing that makes sense to you, but after it’s over, all your left is feeling guilty and shitty. You may not need to forgive, but blind retribution only leads to more anger, resentment and hatred.
"Bojack, don't-"
"Do *it* "
Note how the dialogue transition is framed as though Bojack is finishing Hollyhock's sentence. He's aware that he's about to fuck up again, with the consequences that come with it, but follows through anyways, then feels like shit upon the immediate regret.
Meta as fuck.
coming back to this scene after time's arrow just hits so... different.
it's like, you can see both perspectives and they're both equally so heartbreaking. one one hand, you have bojack who is still seething with hate and resentment towards his mother, and seeing her give genuine love and care to a doll when she couldn't give it to him for all these years naturally makes him angry and rightfully so. but for beatrice, she doesn't see this as just any random doll, but as a connection to her childhood and past. so when bojack throws away the doll, beatrice just re-lives that traumatic moment all over again. this scene is fascinatingly crafted and gives the audience such a brilliant insight into two very different characters' lives, who have both been affected by different forms of generational abuse and trauma
The mother's scream is peak voice acting omfg
I feel like the baby was a reflection of how Beatrice truly felt about Bojack at some point
Until she chucked that kid and the bath water off a cliff 50 years ago
Maybe, or it could be Hollyhock
Yeah. This is why I'm no contact with my parents. My anger would make me act out like this if I was around them.It's better for both of us to not be in the same room.
People in the comments keep saying weather “Beatrice deserved it” or if “Bojack was being cruel” but tbh I think this scene was kind of showing how horrible their relationship is. Bojack is furious after seeing Beatrice ‘mother’ the doll when he never had a good mothering moment from her. And Beatrice is reliving trauma after seeing him throw it off the balcony. So I think it’s not about who’s in the wrong I think it’s more that they’re both wrong for each other.
“Nice arm” I don’t care what anyone says that’s one of the funniest lines in this episode after all that tension and drama
My doll is dead, everything is worse now
I like how the worthless waste of my husband's jism can refer both to Henrietta and to BoJack, although it makes sense here that BoJack thinks that it refers to himself
Anyone else notice that Bojack's constant fuck-ups are starting to eat away at his sanity?
Seeing the doll being thrown and Beatrice’s reaction forshadows what happens In Time’s Arrow when her father threw her doll in the fire. I feel like at this point, she’s having flashbacks of what her father did to her “baby”. Someone in a position of power harming her psychologically. At this point, Bojack is in a position of power since Beatrice is suffering from dementia and I feel like she’s hallucinating him as her father when he throws the doll.
The fact that she screams like that in both scenes is heartbreaking honestly.
The way you phrased it made things worst, she did relieve her trauma of her dad burning her doll but hallucinated BoJack as Henriatta so she also relieved the moment when she took away Henriatta's baby and that reminded her how bad of a person she is and in Time's Arrow we know how much that impacts her (the memory litterally stops here with a scream from Henriatta)
Just imagine BoJack having his own kids if he acted like that towards them.
I think this scene is quite impactful, because we feel sympathy for Beatrice because she sees that doll as a real baby and is essentially witnessing it being murdered, but also we are more connected to BoJack and his story, knowing she did not treat him right, and might feel a mean satisfaction when he's proving that point - probably how he feels having done it anyways. I think that's really cool
BoJack didn’t feel any satisfaction from it, which was the scene’s entire point; showing the futility of revenge.
0:34 I think she was starting to understand it a little bit, if not question what he was saying with how specific it was. The way she looked from one to the other & then possibly began to understand, but at the same time probably doubted it due to how Bojack's mom is currently. She probably couldn't see her as such a horrible parent to him.
I can't help but feel a little for Bojack. Having a parent not give a singular fuck about your existence, only to finally buckle up and be a parent to someone else when you're grown, it fucking hurts. No matter what you try to tell yourself and rationalize, it's gonna hurt like hell, and piss you off.
sorry but the quick cut to "it's true jackass" was so funny to me
I still feel so bad for BJ when he saw his mother give all her love and support which he didn't receive in his childhood to an inanimate doll.Also,when he felt terrible,Hollyhock couldn't understand him and was on Beatrice's side.
0:04 its sad because she probably thought he was talkimg about her childhood
Under any other circumstances, Bojack would totally be the "bad guy", but Beatrice was such a horrible person (whether she remembers it or not) that I think she totally deserved it.
Alex Rees But did you see what happened to her as a child?
And Stalin was beaten by his dad as a kid, I still get to hate him for being a mass murderer
+Alex Rees - Yeah. I agree that *Beatrice* had that coming. It was shitty for Bojack to do that but you can empathize for the both of them. But at this point in time that wasn't Beatrice, in a sense. Her mind was lost due to dementia and as Hollyhock put it, "that's just an old lady". Precisely like Bojack, just because of her childhood that doesn't give her an excuse. She was still a shitty woman who took out her emotions on others. She's certainly one of *my* personal favourites, I love her, but she was horrendous.
@@biteme9486 Yeah, even for the most evil people in the world can be cruel, we still felt sympathy for having a hard time in their lives. Evil people deserved to be rot even their innocence was lost.
Beatrice with dementia doesn't deserve it though, she literally doesn't remember any of the shit she did to bojack
Wendie Malick doesn't get enough credit for her voice work.
Not just Beatrice Horseman, but Chicha from The Emperor’s New Groove, Beautiful Goregous from Jimmy Neutron, and obviously Eda Clawthorne from The Owl House are Wendie Malick’s best voice roles!
I cracked up when she goes, "Give me the baby back, you worthless waste of my husband's jissm!" And Bojack responds with, "Aha! So, you DO know who I am!"
ahahaha. I know everyone is pointing out the fact that she truly believes it's Henrietta but still, funny.
Mother with dementia who thinks she just saw her actual baby be thrown off a mountain screams
Bojack: nice arm🐴✨😏
Oh my god.
I was like “she deserves that” until I saw the scene of her babydoll burning in the fire.
Poor Beatrice. I love her so much.
And what about her husband cheating on her with Henrietta, and she had to "make things right". I think she still want to make right for the baby
You love that bitch
Fucking psychopath
Although I feel for Beatrice's life, I feel for her past, I _do not_ respect her. She took her child, who was a WILLING child, and emotionally and even sometimes physically neglected him. I understand that she was miserable as a young mother and wife with an asshole husband but she is a truly terrible witch despite her past. I even wept during Beatrice's flashbacks. Even Beatrice herself recognized how much of a terrible mother and person she had turned out to be.
She may be a well-constructed character but I do not respect her.
Even with the reveal of Beatrice's childhood, she still had the chance to be better. Todd said himself to Bojack that it doesn't matter if he took Drugs or Alchohol or even his childhood, he still could be better
The brilliance of this show-when Bea called Bojack a "worthless waste of my husbands jism" and then quickly said "Govern yourself Henrietta", my first thought(other than _ew)_ was the immediacy of those two statements-NO ONE regains and loses their memories that quickly, Alzheimer's or not. And that made me realize and ask myself, is Henrietta real? And was she Butterscotch's _lover?_ Sure enough, Time's Arrow and and the big twist is revealed. Such a perfect hint for the observant listener to find. Amazing.
Bojack's hatred of his mother was the only thing I never blamed him for. she was pure evil
I just realized why she freaked out. It was like reliving when her dad was burning her stuff.
Especially her doll.
Bojack is being terrible here but knowing the his mom put him through I completely understand his actions.
Beatrice deserved it for the lifetime of abuse and neglect she put Bojack through.
@@PlanetZoidstar That _was_ Beatrice, but not the Beatrice who abused BoJack. She didn’t deserve it.
@@jemmyrtiu By that logic Bojack didn't deserve getting cut off by Hollyhock for stuff he did pre-character development.
Doesn't work that way, chief.
The immediate cut and zoom in on Bojack of
Bojack: I’m unfit??
Voice: it’s true, jackass
Is amazing
Bojack wanted to get back at his mother for loving doll more than she loves him.
But Beatrice isnt the same woman that raised him.
Instead, he Just retraumatised an old demented woman who cant even remember what she did for the past years. She doesnt ven know Bojack is with her right now. She thinks Henrietta is Just acting weird all of a sudden. She sees Henrietta.
Its understandable why he wants to make his mom feel bad. She hurt him. Badly. But the only person he had a chance to hurt and did hurt is little girl trapped in an old woman's body. Thats what Beatrice is now. She doesnt remember the event that made her such a terrible parent, she gets to expiriance parenthood without the dread of genrational trauma but what she did wont leave her be. Karma didnt get her when she was healthy, so now she suffers when she is an Almost different person.
At the end, they both are victims and abusers(not only to each other, but to others as well). Neither's actions can be excused, but it sure hurts when you understand them both.
And just to add, poor Holyjock! She probably gained trauma herself while living with the two. They arent exactly the best caretakers. Far from it...... (not giving spoilers away)
it's hilarious how bojack always thoutgh die-ane was a responsible secure person when in fact she was just a few better than him, what tells a lot
I love how the show makes you sympathetic for even bj’s abusive mother that’s genuinely just evil at this point & it makes sense
Bj was this close to making up with his mom but his ego took over and just wanted revenge
1:02 This is way more fucked up if you realize that she thinks that is a REAL baby
How scary how the tables turned. Bea abused and neglected BoJack as a child and he never quite knew why. Now BoJack is causing Bea pain and she has no clue why.
Sheesh, that internalization of all the emotional & verbal abuse he went through as a kid, to the point that voice became his own personal dialogue.
Poor Bojack.
Jesus christ the scream of beatrice after he threw the doll is still blood curdling. Amazing performance.
Weird the hollyhock,daughter of your enemy, Henrietta, is taking care of you while you insult your enemy,Henrietta, in her presence.
It's unfair how we are wrong for treating our abusers the way they treated us.
Thing is that we as the audience know and understand why bojack did this.
But hollyhock and tina dont, they dont know about the horrid things beatrice has said and done to him as a child, there is no context for them, all they see is a spiteful 50 year old son who upset his dementia riddled mother for no reason.
Hollyhock can’t ever really understand why Bojack did this. All she thinks is “I get his childhood wasn’t the best, but that can’t ALL be true, right?” She had 8 parents shower her with nothing but love, affection, and encouragement for 18 years. Bojack didn’t even get one parent to do any of that for him.
Edit: Just one example of what I mean:
Beatrice: Don’t you dare cry, Bojack.
Hollyhock’s dads: Don’t feel bad about feeling bad.
Took me way too long (until now) to realize “waste of my husbands jizzem” was referring to Henrietta, but bojack thought she was talking about him.
Also love the “it’s true, jackass”
i’m actually rooting for BoJack in this scene, as that one quote says “every children deserves a parents but not every parent deserves a child.”
You still can’t help but feel bad for Beatrice. They’re both severely broken people.
Yeah. Me too. I really don't feel bad for beatrice even whilst knowing her backstory.
Yeah but Beatrice as a child didn't deserve her doll thrown of the roof it was really immature to do that
@@thegem597 And you feel bad for BoJack, even whilst knowing what he’s done?
That’s super shitty. BoJack wasn’t punishing his mother; he was punishing - or rather _mistreating_ - someone old, dying, and with no idea as to who he was. What good did it do him? What good does seeking vengeance do anyone?
part of me feels bad for her while the other part of me knows damn well she had it coming. You can't always get away with abuse because sometimes your past will always comes right back at you that way. People may not always remember what they did for you and what they did to you, but they will always remember what they feel about you.
What Bojack did should definitely be an great idea for a movie.
1:43 I really like the line "You gotta fix this dummy." Context aside, it sounds really soft and gentle
Just imagine how horrifying this must have been for Beatrice.
Imagine how horrifying Beatrice was to Bojack for his entire childhood :)
@@carrotandpeas ok dude we get it we watched the show thing is we're talking about Beatrice not Bojack, She thought that the doll is a real baby and that Bojack threw a real baby off his balcony
@@carrotandpeas Imagine that Beatrice is mentally unwell and you still think that she deserves Bojack's revenge. Even Bojack realised his mistake at the end. Your values are worse than Bojack's. LOL.
@@flyingpenandpaper6119 lol no I just hate abusive parents who, on purpose or not, makes their children feel the need to treat them with any semblance of respect after what they've put them through. Might just be the fact that I have experience with abusive parental figures, but it just really irks me when abusers get a pass because of their own mental issues. It doesn't matter if she's "mentally unwell", she treated Bojack like shit his entire life, and I personally feel that it wouldn't be undeserved for her to be treated like shit in return.
Though that's just my opinion.
No I take it back she didnt deserve it
I know Bojack is usually bad, but he’s in the right here imo
To be honest bojack mom kinda deserved that since she treated that doll better than baby bojack and his childhood
This was about how she resented Henrietta it's a different issue outside of Bojack.
I wouldn't say that Betarice 'deserved' it, because that just flattens everything down to a petty game of emotional revenges but... she definitely had this coming. She practically caused this to happen. Is Bojack being a mature enough person to think about how him being cruel to the current state of Beatrice means nothing?No. But you also have to consider the fact that one of the main reasons why he failed to develop a decent personality is the traumas that Betarice literally shoved into his brain, 100% intentionally, too. So you know, when you plant an apple seed you get an apple tree. When you plant a pear seed you get a pear tree. When you raise your kid to be a self-centered prick with tons of unresolved childhood traumas, you get this. It's that simple.
I feel terrible for Hollyhock though. Yikes
"Doll wouldn't throw you over the side of a mountain!"
Beatrice sobbing :
Bojack : **Nice arm.**
Part of me thinks she was so upset that doll was thrown because one her dementia brought our another side of her that we taken as a child...but also...notice how doll looks very familiar to something precious that she lost AS a child...her doll
Sad thing is the woman he was directing that all at and who deserved to hear it wasn’t actually there anymore.
It’s so easy to feel justified doing a bad thing to someone who it feels like ruined your life. But then it all comes back to reality when you realize you still HURT them and you didn’t ever really want to hurt them. You just wanted them to recognize how fucking much they hurt you.
I feel bad for her because of her trauma but I still feel she kinda deserved this scene. She was incredibly abusive and neglectful, and her traumas don't make those okay, just like all the traumas she inflicted on bojack don't make his actions toward penny or herb or Sarah Lynn okay.
Probably what I'm about to write is an unpopular opinion... at first the scene was funny af for me when he started juggling the dolll around, but after seeing beatrice backstory later, her traumas and how she suffered, I felt really bad for her.
I know she wasn't the best mother to bojack, but seeing her that vulnerable and crying made me sad...
Trauma is an explanation not an excuse. You can feel bad for her, but its also important to acknowledge that she put Bojack through a lot and there is no excuse for that. Bojack was completely valid in this scenario. He wasn't right to do it, but it was understandable, totally valid, and even expected tbh.
@@carrotandpeas Trauma isn't an excuse but Bojack's trauma is..?
@@turgburg4890 no. Neither of their traumas were excuses for how they reacted. It's understandable why they reacted as they did, but not okay.
And I feel like it's also worth acknowledging the dynamic of a mother and son being different than a situation like this between just two people who know each other.
@@carrotandpeas Now I’m on nobody’s side :d
@@skylarthompson299 Thats the point. Not every situation requires one to "choose sides". Sometimes tragedy is just tragedy
pretty neat detail that theres a blind man drinking with his dog in the bar
I don’t know who to side with.