I feel like the writers were telling the toxic fans "you didn't listen when we said you shouldn't use a show to justify your shitty behavior so now we gotta beat you over the head with it"
@@marinaparra8838 With Philbert. Philbert was essentially a parody of these sort of self-justifying toxic male figures that Hollywood uses to rationalise their awful behaviour. Philbert is essentially how Rick Sanchez is seen by certain groups on the Internet.
Man.. the look on Princess caroline's face when he said he loved sarah lynn but not the other girls... can't believe I missed that. You deserve better, PC
the first time i watched it i was a little confused as to why pc was so upset with bojack after the second interview but iv since seen that that was why
He did love princess Caroline tho so I don’t entirely understand that line Maybe he meant the girls he just hooked up with (he and P.C. had an actual relationship) Maybe it was meant to show how good bojack is and twisting his own words to make himself look bad
@@jessiang9708 exactly. like there are things that bojack does and the show makes it clear that bojack was in the wrong yet a lot of fans ive seen in comments, mostly guys, somehow defend bojack and i think they see themselves a little in him and want to feel sorry for him sort of like self pity.
@@Valentine-jo7ls That makes me sad then because the show has helped me be a better person. Bojack has redeeming qualities, but I feel the show is seen best when you see how Bojack’s destructive behavior worsens life for himself and everyone else around him in the end. Only in the last season do you see him make attempts to turn things around but in general Bojack’s actions shouldn’t be idealized as admirable.
“It's not the alcohol, or the drugs, or any of the shitty things that happened to you in your career, or when you were a kid. It's you. Okay? It's you.”- Todd
Okay I don't really watch the show so I don't know the full context to this quote but I will say to human beings in general that quote is false. It's literally impossible to grow up and build character without retaining certain aspects from your childhood or important or traumatic experiences from your life. No matter who you are you can contribute your attitude and morals to your upbringing so I do know that Bojack's upbringing was fucked. I'm not saying that's a free pass for the way he's acted and treated people throughout his life but you can see that he doesn't want to be this way. That's the major difference between the people who believe you can mold yourself to your own design and the people who believe it's all your upbringings fault. Now Bojack didn't try very hard to change himself but you could see he always had these mental battles with himself because he knew what he was doing was fucked but he had no willpower to change it because he believed there was nothing he could do to change it. So yes in a way it is just him making these mistakes, but the alcohol and drugs and shitty things that happened in his career one hundred percent stemmed from when he was a kid and from the way he shows remorse towards his actions I'm sure he could have been raised to be a fine young man if he just had the opportunity.
@@KupcakeKitten you're right but, he's an adult now no one is affecting his actions. that's what Todd means when he says it's him. Bojack has the power to make whatever choices he wants and he still hurts people. a lot of people have hard lives but, that's not an excuse in the moment to be toxic toward people you're supposed care about.
@@theshockinglyeloquentdog9945 Childhood trauma doesn't vanish when you hit 18, dude. It takes years to unpack and process it all, so even if Bojack started working on it in season two, given how realistic the show is, chances are, he'd be at the point he is in this interview. It takes years and some behaviors are so ingrained that they can't be erased, only managed and there should be forgiveness for when one can no longer manage them. (Not saying Sarah's death was forgivable/excusable. Let's not jump the shark of expectations here.)
for me, the worst part is the 17 minutes. Bojack consciously waited 17 whole minutes, while Sarah Lynn was still alive and suffering, to call for help. just to cover his own ass. it breaks my heart that if he had called immediately she could've survived.
Exactly. It showed that Bojack is consciously doing all these bad things and doesn’t care about harming others. I thought that maybe he was just an extremely inconsiderate person but that 17 minutes really sealed the deal for me.
Or maybe she wouldn’t. But it doesn’t matter, because even if she didn’t survive if Bojack had called 911 right away, at least he would come out with a decent moral fiber.
Sorry to be so offtopic but does anyone know of a method to get back into an Instagram account..? I was dumb forgot the password. I love any tips you can give me.
@@Lndo-sh1xl Even during their bender, Sarah Lynn is desperately trying to reach out to Bojack and talk about these things that are destroying her inside, but Bojack selfishly keeps shutting her down and either changing the subject or giving her more drugs, simply because he himself didn't want to have to deal with her emotional needs. She kept wanting to go to the planetarium throughout the entire episode, and Bojack finally does so, but not to be kind to her. He only did it cuz she was trying to talk to him again and he was out of other ideas to distract her. He used her. Sarah Lynn was nothing but a tooI for Bojack to avoid having to look at himself or confront his own personal demons. He never cared about her as an actual person, only in terms of what she could do for him.
"I loved Sarah Lynn, she was like a daughter to me" Saying that, just seconds shy of admitting you had sex with her (when she was drunk and high af, after you yourself got her out of sobriety) is freaking disgusting.
I like how people focus on the part that he says he loved her like a daughter, because people who never lived with a narcisist don't comprehend the absolute level of lies they put on themselfs just to appear likable while making 0 effort to understand that people won't like you because of your image but because of your TRUE character. he didn't said he loved her like a daughter because it is true, he said so because he thought it would be the most "sugar coated" shit he could have said at the momment. And yes, it's that fucking quickly, the mind of af a narcisist is trained to lie faster than it can think about truth. to sum things up, he didn't loved sarah as a daughter, he never loved her at all, or nobody in his life, not even himself.
he was drunk and high too at the time. Also, like he said, it was a different bender (in season 1), when she wasn't yet in sobriety. But even if it was on the season 3 bender, Sarah Lynn herself said on a previous episode she was planning on going back on drugs and was only going sober to get higher when she did go back. (Bojack was still wrong for encouraging it, but it's not like she planned on staying sober in the long run either, and the fact she agreed to get high again without hesitation proves that)
yeah..... the show kinda bended backwards a little in the second half of final season to have bojack AND ONLY BOJACK face consequences. Any time i watch Todd post season 4 I keep thinking "YOU LET CLOWN DENTIST WHO HAVE TURNED INTO ZOMBIES INTO THE WILD AND YOU DON'T EVEN FEEL A SINGLE TRACE OF GUILT OR REMORSE?! WHAT THE HELL?!"
@@ianr.navahuber2195 Esteemed Character-Actress Margot Martindale was given a pass for killing multiple people because everyone agreed she'd be really good in an upcoming role too.
@@georgeprchal3924 Yeah. I would forgive the show for things like that if it at least say the "Life is unfair" usual motto. Some bad people who did bad actions get frogiven, some good people who did good things get punishment, some people do get what they deserve, but not what they needed, and some get what they needed but not what they deserved." usual lesson. especially considering that bojack's case could have easily casued something in the show's Hollywoo similar to what happened in real life with the #MeToo movement Also it was weird that Margot suddenly felt guilty over what she did to Todd when, in anything, she seemed to enjoy what that decision led her to do
@@celarania good catch, but i agree with carly. bojack would be scary to confront irl, especially knowing about (almost) everything he's already done to women.
"I took her to rehab, by the way. I tried to get her help." Then a year or so later, you interrupted her 9 months of sobriety to deal with *your* anxieties and insecurities, and took her on the bender that killed her, but not before you further traumatized a girl you nearly had sex with when she was 17. Bojack, you are a horrible person.
@@tonzennegger7185 Yes, but the point I was making wasn't about Penny. It was about how Bojack claimed to help Sarah Lynn, but he was the reason that she died. Also, while Penny wasn't innocent, guess who was morally bankrupt and desperate enough to nearly fulfill her wish? While Penny wasn't innocent, neither was Bojack. And yes, it DID traumatize her. Nothing has to happen for it to traumatize someone. Stop trying to paint all women as liars who blame everything on men, and just acknowledge that this fictional man did do a bunch of crappy stuff.
@@kieravermeal9127 frankly I believe Penny's panic attacks comes from Bojack coming to her campus unannounced with stereotypical stalking getup. I could somewhat emphatize with that.
I don't wanna justify bojack, but her 9 months of sobriety were utter bs. She stayed sober because, and I quote her, the high would be so much better (without tolerance). Also her house was full of drugs, she didn't have the intention to come clean at all. And again, this doesn't justify bojack's actions. But it's a point everyone misses.
@@BlackStormMC Sarah Lynn looked for an exçuse to start drugs again, but if she didnt find one in 9 months, then how long would she have lasted without Bojack? Maybe she would have died tragically young anyway. But without Bojack it would have probably took a few more years.
@@tonzennegger7185 @fadadapple "I was seventeen, I didn’t know any better!" Teenagers are not smart when it comes to choices. Gender has nothing to do with it, but age is. Teenagers are still far from an adult.
One thing I JUST realized is that Sarah Lynn's willingness to have sex with BoJack actually might be due to her Step-father "normalizing" it in her mind and that thought is fucking terrifying.
I know it's not illegal because she was an adult and it was all consensual, but even then, she was his TV daughter, to even think about doing that kind of stuff with someone who you knew as a child when you were an adult is disgusting.
@@Treeeee2008It's the fact that Bojack saw her as a daughter. She wasn't just a kid to him, she was the closest thing her had to a daughter and he killed her
Boy howdy this is a comment I really wish I did not read because boy oh boy sexual trauma really does destroy someone’s consent and boundary setting, couldn’t relate at all nope not at all but holy shit you hit the nail on the head
I definitely don't think Bojack consciously abuses women specifically but when Biscuits pointed out all the times he's taken advantage of women in the show there is definitely a pattern.
Ben Conrad lmao he didn’t trick peanut butter into buying the restaurant. He got sued and had to sell it and he said “what idiot would buy the restaurant” and the scene cut to mr peanut butter buying the restaurant. It was his own decision
Ben Conrad the majority of BoJack’s victims are women tho, and in all the incidents Biscuits brought up BoJack had the power (Penny and her friends were teenagers, Wanda had gotten out of a 30 year coma and was essentially a stunted 20 year old (which BoJack is too because of his fame), Marci was an unstable woman obsessed with him, Sarah Lynn was a troubled addict and he took advantage of her self control to go on a bender with her so he could wallow in his own pity etc)
Honestly, what I liked about the second interview is that, initially, we were shown that Biscuits only did the interview for more ratings, but when she learned the true extent of BoJack's actions, you could see her character become genuinely determined to expose BoJack for the horrible person he is. BoJack revealing that he had sex with Sarah Lynn just proceeded to cement her determination.
@@nathanseper8738 I think it was sort of was. She didn't have to go in for the kills like this but she did. Yes, it was great for ratings, but that just gave her the safety to push it in a way she couldn't do with most male figures.
@@carlycrays2831Not to mention SL became the Freddie Mercury/Tupac of her universe. You gotta love tragically cut short musicians they're loved more in death than their whole life.
6:27 “i loved sarah lynn! she was like a daughter to me!” 6:40 “she was TEN! i didn’t even have sex with her until she was THIRTY!” bojack just admitted in (basically) the same breath that the woman he viewed as “a daughter” when she was a child is also the woman who he had sex with when she was legal 💀 this entire interview just makes you realize how sick he really is
I do agree that its extremely sketchy and definitely slimy. But I'd say definitely better that she was 30, instead of recently turned 18. Which would add a layer of implication like waiting until she was legal.
In the previous episode she revealed to him she stayed with him after everything he’s done because she has loved him for the 25 years they’ve worked together, and she wants to get something out of the “sunk costs and all that” because he’s the one love of her life. Now according to BoJack Sarah Lynn was the only woman he ever truly loved, and he let her die. And when BoJacks ranting outside after the interview he scoffs at how he never took advantage of her and PC just flatly says “I’m still here aren’t I?”.
First time I saw that, I had to pause the episode to just take in that amazing moment. Bojack finally being confronted for all his worst behaviours, forced to realize what a dick he's been, even as we the audience are still reeling from the revelation that Sarah Lynn could have survived if Bojack hadn't waited seventeen minutes ...
SlimesDesigns He knew the police could check the phone records, so in an effort to add credibility to his lie about Sarah Lynn calling him to the planetarium, he called his own cell with hers and then waited 17 minutes to make a reasonable time gap for himself to make it look like he drove there after Sarah Lynn called him.
Robo Blue except being wasn’t because Sarah Lynn said herself that she was looking for literally any excuse at all to fall off the wagon, does that sound like someone who is going to stay sober?
6:06 Anyone gonna mention how Bojack threw Sharonna under the bus just to try and save his own skin? Really goes to show to some extent how much Bojack doesn’t care for the people he’s known or thinks he’s solved his problems with.
@Jon Guiriba, I don't think anyone's saying it isn't logical. It's still pretty shitty of him. Calling someone crazy for exposing what a shitty person you are is an incredibly shitty, gaslighting thing to do.
@@RocketeerAndRoll Let me say very clear. She was talking about that if you have been so traumatized by successive bad events in this cartoon, most of them patronized by Bojack is due to the fact that you have been in your conduct like bojack. THAT IS THE WORST PART IN THE SHOW, you have to live with your decision. best regards dude
@@user-ln2go4xp6d No because eventually when the trend of hating on said celebrity dies down everyone forgets about it, especially after they've been acquitted
Andy Dick for one, who gave cocaine to a recovering addict at a party. She got high, fell off the wagon, had a mental breakdown and killed her husband - Phil Hartman, aka, Troy McClure from the Simpsons - and then herself, leaving their kids orphans. Like, it was Mrs Hartman’s decision to murder-suicide but she probably wouldn’t have made it if Dick had respected that she was in recovery and not given her drugs. He still gets work.
You guys think its just celebrities? Everybody excuses their loved ones actions constantly and try to act like their beloved brother/parent/child/whatever could never do wrong.
Before this episode, Bojack's guilt over Sarah Lynn's death seemed so sad and sympathetic. The way he couldn't bear to even think of her without feeling awful. And so many of us posted comments talking about how sad we felt for Bojack that he had to go through that. Then this episode comes out, and the truth is revealed about Bojack's callous actions resulting in her dying, in every sense. He waited almost 20 minutes before calling the paramedics. Sarah Lynn, the only woman he claimed to love, still didn't mean enough to him that he was willing to face consequences for her sake,. He preferred to let her die. Going back to older episodes, all his guilt and self-loathing is completely justified. He did a truly monstrous thing, and honestly, I think this shutdown by Biscuit was well deserved.
I mean... He killed someone, i think anyone's first emotion is fear which can cause any reaction. You don't necessarily jump to pick up the phone after killing someone, purposely or not.
Jayarie Fear is one thing, but acting on that fear and meticulously planning an alibi for yourself while someone is still alive and could still be saved? That’s really bad, and it doesn’t reflect well on you if the truth comes out. Nobody, for another example, thinks highly of drivers who hit someone with their car and then speed off without calling 911.
@@guyincognito5706 He knew she was an addict (who was in rehab at the time) and he didn´t care about she trying to recover when he told him to go on a bender. Bojack killed her.
Small detail I noticed after rewatch: around 7:08 when they talk about Sarah Lynn not dying at the planetarium, but at the hospital, you can see Bojack's eyes shrink. You can see him processing what's being told to him in real time. That if he had just sucked up his pride and called for help earlier instead of waiting for 17 MINUTES, she might've still been alive.
Anyone noticed that throughout the series, Bojack just "passively" let things happen? All so he can't be a fault 100%, right? But he is at fault because he refuses to take responsibility for all the harm he did to others.
Bojack takes active actions in ruining the lives of those around him. He sabotaged Todd, he kissed Charlotte, tried to have sex with a minor, manipulates Mr. Peanutbutter, hurts Princess Carolyn, gets high with Sarah Lynn and then deliberately waits 17 minutes, in which could have saved her life, so he could save his own skin. BoJack needs to stop being pitied. This is why he is the way he is and will never change. Because terrible people like yourself make excuses for him and people like him, and never ever take accountability for their actions.
Oh! No, no, I wasn't making excuses for him. What I meant is that he makes excuses like "She wanted it" or "It's too late" or looking sad to make it seem like he had no control of any situation. But he did have power and refused to take responsibility for it. @@ahappilydrunkpuppy8961
when bojack had sex with sarah lynn it wasn't played off as a big deal, but I felt disgusted. We saw her as a child and I felt like it was a somewhat father daughter relationship, and I felt disgusted about it. I mean since he knew her as a child, seeing her grow up, it had somewhat a 'grooming' tone to it
Agreed. A lot of people like to say “well she was 30 and they weren’t TECHNICALLY father and daughter” but I can’t see it that way. It honestly disgusted me when I first saw that scene the first time and couldn’t understand why it was being “glossed over.” That was one of the first severe hits to my respect for Bojack
"Who told you all this stuff? Did Sharona tell you that? [...] Because Sharona was a drunk too! You can't trust a thing she says!" Bojack just outed someone he knows, made peace with, and who also attends the same Alcoholic Anonymous group he goes to, as an alcoholic on TV. What's worse, it wasn't even Sharona who told Biscuits Braxby about Sarah Lynn's underage drinking on the Horsin' Around set.
The fact that he’s so quick to throw people’s reputations or their lives under the bus proved to me that he never truly changed, and he deserved that comeuppance. Plus, it completely justifies the hostility of the AA meeting crowd in the next episode: he broke their rules and outed an anonymous alcoholic. And Bojack couldn't even figure that out himself, he was just so absorbed with self-pity. I'm surprised that Bojack was even allowed to come into the room, honestly.
Seeing how he wanted this 2nd interview to make himself look even better, and seeing how fast he threw her under the bus really does cement how he's still kind've a shitty guy.
I've never felt so much rage towards a character. I rewatched this series from the beginning to the end with my mom and we both yelled " What is he *DOING* " when he wanted to go on the interview with Biscuits again and gloat. And then we found out that he waited almost 20 minutes and *THEN* confessed that he had sex with Sarah Lynn and when the scene ended we just sat in silence and looked at each other in shock over what just happened and how fast it happened.
IMO it doesn't make sense even for Bojack to do that. He can be narcissistic sure but that was just plain illogical in how obviously against his own self interests it was. Especially with PC and Diane warning him it just seemed out of character for him to be that dumb.
@@Saskaruto16 Not really out of character - Bojack is an egotistical person who, throughout the series, we see him wanting to be praised, to be in the limelight. After the amount of praise he got from the first interview, it makes perfect sense for him to want to experience that again and do a second one.
@@Saskaruto16 See, it’s just as he said in the 2nd interview many times. He’s an addict. Not just to drugs and alcohol, but also to fame. After the first interview he had such a good connotation to his name in the limelight, that he wanted to do another interview to make himself look better.
Bojack should have quit while he was ahead. I personally was sickened when he said "I nailed that interview!"after the first one, where he was talking about how he could have railed against Sarah Lynn's mother or what have you. But Bojack wanted to be praised, to seem heroic and have publicity, which is why everything crumbled when the truth came out.
For the most part, yes. But one thing we didn't see was that Bojack waited almost 20 minutes to call for an ambulance while Sarah Lynn was dying. But I think that was a smart decision by the writers. That way, we became like the people in BH's universe, finding out about what he did through this interview. And our perception of him most likely changed in the same way as the people in BH's universe afterwards.
Brian Nava Definitely. My whole view of Bojack was permanently changed. I feel like the showrunner was worried about making Bojack too likeable, hence the meta commentary of Season 5. But this was exactly what we needed. An interview which reminds the audience just how badly Bojack has treated women in his entire life. It was harder to notice because his antics were played up for comedy, but with or without the veneer of humour, Bojack is a deeply problematic figure. Sure, he’s damaged in ways that he didn’t ask for, but those women didn’t ask to be used so callously by him. Sarah Lynn didn’t ask Bojack to ruin her life in all the ways that he did, and then finally allow her to die alone in the planetarium instead of saving her life.
So true. It reminds me of how we initially were introduced to 90s Bojack as a straight-and-arrow guy who would never drink. Then in the last season, it's revealed that he started drinking vodka as a CHILD. He even had US fooled.
It’s really clever. After Sarah Lynn’s death, Bojack is just filled with grief. And we think we understand what it was: That he was the ones who gave her the drugs that caused her to OD and yeah while that’s really serious but we are sympathetic because we assumed he didn’t intend for that to happen. But then we learn that he waited 17 minutes to call an ambulance that could’ve potentially saved her life. Not 2. Not 5. But *17* minutes. And those minutes were spent trying to save his skin and in the end someone paid for his selfishness with their life. And then or sympathy turned to anger and disgust. Just when we thought he couldn’t possibly get worse. He does.
and yet he claims he "loves" her but i guess he didn't lover her enough to save his own skin instead of helping her like damn it changed a huge perspective on Bojack
@@y.9645 it is. A huge eye opener. I mean, if he’s willing to let the person who he claims isn’t like other people and who he loves more than anything, die, than can you imagine what he’d to the people close in his life (PC, Diane, Todd, Hollyhock)?
Yeah, I decided to rewatch the series and I just hated him the entire time. Especially after Sara Lynn died. I found it impossible to feel bad for him at all knowing what he did.
Im sorry but the way I see it is as the truth of life. He was incredibly high and probably didn’t process time as usual. Most of us like to think we would automatically do the right thing, but would we? Would we be so calm and call for help when most of us can’t even tell an SO why we are upset? Everyone is hating on bojack for doing a very human thing, freaking out. I’ve never done drugs, I once accidentally ate three cookies laced with weed (i didn’t know they were weed cookies, the person didn’t tell us) and I had a horrible time and could barely tell if I was home or in the stupid gone with the wind movie. I had no perception of time and based off that I can see why bojack probably didn’t know what to do. Once he starts talking about what happened it feels more like he’s just saying things to appease the viewers so they can have someone to judge. The awful truth is that most of us, no matter how good we think we are, would end up doing the same as bojack, freaking out and in the process of our friend dying probably too high to do anything helpful. Its why so many friends who do drugs with each other overdose and die, their sometimes to high to do anything.
@@monserrath270 most people don't die of OD just because their buddies were too freaked out or high to call an ambulance for nearly 20 minutes. also, you're missing a point that he called his own phone from sarah lynn's meaning he was sensible enough to cover for himself in that situation, then he sat outside without even trying to do anything. he just cared more about himself than her.
It's interesting, ironic and kind of contradictive how in the first season, Bojack having sex with Sarah Lynn wasn't treated like a big deal and it was quickly and easily condoned like how other cartoon characters from other mature tv shows do awful things and it's quickly treated likes it's nothing, BUT in the last season Bojack having sex with sarah lynn was later randomly finally taken seriously and treated like one of the worst things Bojack has ever done, Why aren't all mature cartoons like that?
Yeah, same with that girl who woke up from that coma (can't remember her name) The first time I saw it, I kinda laughed due to how bizarre the situation was. Then this scene came.
These two interviews really show that even if he was a "changed" man, his ego never left. After the first interview that saved his skin and getting validation from the public. He goes back to being the egotistical Bojack and asks for a 2nd interview for even more validation, which doesn't go the way he expects. It really shows why Diane at the end of the series after Bojack says,"This is nice." And turns too look at her, she doesn't look back, because she knows that even the smallest attention she gives to Bojack will just make him go back to the person he tends to be, and she doesn't want to him to lose all the progress he made.
"Sarah Lynn wasn't like those other girls, I loved Sarah lynn!" Cut to P.C. Remember in a earlier season when Bojack told P.C. he loved her as much as he could love anyone?(Or something along those lines) Guess that was another lie
In my opinion in this scene Bojack didn’t go back to Bojack season 1, he became an even worst version of this specific Bojack. I wanted to throw up so hard hearing that.
@@BenDaGoat I dont really think Bojack is worse than before. Just think all the good he did this season, he stopped being an asshole to the people around him, he stopped drinking (until he reads hollyhocks letter), and he was was an inspiring college professor and everyone loved him. Sure the interview went terrible but that was only because of the SEASONS before season 6. Look at the damage that Bojack did before season 6, look at what Bojack did to Penny, Sarah Lynn, and Gina. This season was the best season he could ever be and it was just the events BEFORE season 6 that came biting him in the ass.
It's been half a year since you've posted this comment so maybe you've changed your mind about this particular thing but here goes anyway. Change is hard. Growing out of your maladaptive behaviours and strategies isn't a linear process, specially if you've spent basically your entire life with them. Sometimes you slip back into them because they're easier or because you don't know how to behave in a particular manner, like BoJack in the second interview. His behaviour in it is still reprehensible, but it doesn't mean he didn't change, it just means that he went back to what used to work for him. What matters after that point is wether he continues to try to change himself. And he did try.
I actually think he did simply regress back to season 1 Bojack, but it feels so much worse and more jarring because we not only had we grown to love him (no shame in admitting it, this show did a great job at making us sympathize with those that we *THINK* we understand), but also come to learn of details that we hadn't considered before. That reveal of the 17 minutes he waited after Sarah Lynn's OD, the pattern in his experiences with young women... It makes me feel dirty for ever rooting for him. And true to classic season 1 Bojack, he throws everyone else under the bus while trying to justify or make light of his prior actions. But it isn't season 1 anymore. We don't think of this show as yet another Family Guy or Simpsons rip off, we think of the realistic implications which suddenly makes everything feel so. much. worse.
@@NicoUnken everyone misses this episode's message which is media single-mindedly use whatever approach which is most beneficial to them and sensatiolize everything. There was no predatory pattern with women
I was rubbed the wrong way seeing someone say the interviewer set up Bojack to make him look bad. Like Bojack literally set himself up. The first interview wasn’t even sincere, it was to protect himself, but he was able save his image. He was in the safe zone yet he got so cocky about how good he looked, he had another one just to lavish in being the “changed inspiring hero”. The interviewer wasn’t attacking him just to make him look bad for drama, she was addressing real things he’s done on a segment where he’s supposed to be admitting to his problems. Bojack’s response was getting hostile and throwing Sharona under the bus as well as hiding what really happened after Sarah Lynn wouldn’t respond to Bojack. Like the shitty things he’s done, getting full of himself, and always shifting the blame was his demise, not the interviewer...
@@Sam-iy8qm The interviewer owed him everything. In the show, it's established her whole mode of operation is to give flattering, Jimmy Kimmel style interviews where she makes guests look good so other celebrities will go on her show. If she doesn't stick to this, she has no career. The only reason she decided to do it differently for once in her life is that two other reporters (whose subplot sucked) played semantics and made her feel bad about following the unwritten rules of her job. If I suddenly show up to work one day with a crummy attitude and criticize everything my boss does from then on, you can say I'm not violating the law or my contract, but they're still going to fire my ass at the first opportunity.
@@boefwellington562 Bojack isn’t her boss and she technically already gave him his due... doesn’t mean she has to ignore the new information she was given to not act on it. She did her job, period.
@@thatnikkakris2339 um... anybody could seem like the worst person in the world... wow. You have some skeletons in your closet buddy? Do you think its okay if you make the mistakes bojack made in your own life because "everybody does it" Everyone makes mistakes but no, not every person would not have the track record Bojack has.
6:40 “She was 10, I didn’t have sex with her until she was 30!” That line was the exact moment Bojack dug his own grave down to hell, that was his absolute lowest to rock-bottom
especially because there's a whole load of other facts doc champ revealed that nobody else would know, including sharona, it's even more fucked that he jumped to blame her.
@@user-ln2go4xp6d it's a testament to the fact that he doesn't listen, because as much of a piece of shit Champ is, he DID try to tell Bojack that he wasn't a *therapist*
Biscuits is such a great character. She’s worked with enough Hollywoo celebrities to see right through Bojack’s BS. That question of “do you enjoy having power over women?” was probably something she’s been waiting to say for years
What I didn't get was why she didn't take initiative but instead allowed Paige to bully her. Biscuits should've gone right for the throat in the first interview instead of letting that psycho pig force her hand when Paige clearly didn't care if Gina or Penny committed suicide over this.
From an EMT perspective, an extra 17 minutes could have saved her. We have something called the “Golden Hour” which means we need to get a patient to the hospital in one hour from first contact. There is also the “Platinum 10” which details the critical prehospital care that EMS does before transport.
Thank you for posting this, because there are still people saying “he didn’t kill her/she was probably already dead/we don’t know for sure if-“ Yes we do.
@@CrystalRose1111the fact that its debatable is so much better, it leaves bojack just enough wiggle room to pretend and even believe he did nothing wrong, but condemns him enough to feel guilty. That blend of juxtaposing emotions is whats so interesting about his character in a scene like this.
@@ness1278 Yeah but the show was desperately trying to convey to its audience that it wasn’t actually debatable. Like at all It only seems debatable because BJ is the main character. People tend to root for the MC and give him the benefit of the doubt, even though he proves over and over that he doesn’t deserve it.
Yeah that was the moment I had to pause and really process what he said based on what happened with Penny, I really wanted to believe he wouldn’t have done anything and that it was a big misunderstanding, hell I genuinely blacked out the sex with Sarah Lynn part because of how uncomfortable it made me, but this interview legit just ruined any good will I had for Bojack
My Soup Too cold when He told PC he was gonna do it I paused the video and left the Netflix app to prepare myself mentally because I knew this crap would happen
@@Hayden_Cat That was my exact reaction. The second he said that I knew it would go wrong, but I also didn't expect it to go THAT wrong. Those 17 minutes...
@@mobydick3769 Given that Gina ended up getting that role in Kelsey’s film, I’m convinced that she did watch the interviews. She finally got closure to her own suppressed trauma from being strangled. Her oppressor was punished in every sense of the word.
So Sharona turns on the TV and finds out that BoJack: A. Outed her as a (former) alcoholic B. Slept with Sarah Lynn - and Sharona was aware of Sarah Lynn’s stepdad C. Threw her under the bus again for the vodka. I’m sorry, why do people forgive BoJack again?
Main character syndrome the need to defend the supposed protagonist or atagonist as your own hero they don’t treat him like he’s his own person which he isn’t he’s a drawing that simulated those type of people and is trying to teach people it’s ok to be happy from terrible actions and not just ignore them but appreciate what they taught you and become that better person for your own happiness this isn’t anime where the main character gets what he wants it’s just that the story needs you to understand if we weren’t following bojack perspective and he was just some major side character we would not be happy with what he’s doing that would be called the worst but brilliant realistic character so we’re not defending him just ourselves in a way TLDR:he’s basically chase from total drama but older (Also who’s Sharona again it’s been 2 years since I saw this show)
@@ThiccFurryBoi34 she was a hairdresser on Horsin’ Around who worked with BoJack and Sarah Lynn. When Sarah Lynn got drunk on set, BoJack framed Sharona and let her take the fall.
I love this show for so many reasons, but mainly because it made me realize how relentlessly sympathetic and naive I am as a person: even after all of this, I STILL felt bad for BoJack and I was STILL rooting for him, it made me reevaluate the way I see and treat others who are disrespectful of my own mental health and I appreciate it so much
@Lucifer I definitly agree! I just said that I dont think the person who commented this is naive because they still feel bad for bojack and want to help him. I think its very important that this world has people who still welcome others with open arms, even after all the bad stuff they have done. Its important to look out for your own health, but its brave to put others first even when you're on a sinking ship yourself. Man, the empaths of this world deserve more love, yet what most of them get is people who use them for their best quality. (edited bc of grammar mistakes, its not my motherlanguage)
It really is astounding just how self-serving the first interview is, and how satisfying the second interview is by comparison. Also, it's difficult to express just how long 17 minutes is. It doesn't _seem_ like a long time, but for real, time it and just....sit there. It feels like an eternity. Now realize that during an overdose, every second matters. Every. Second. Matters.
I'm a junkie and if she wasn't dead after 5 minuts means it wasn't cut with fentanyl so he could easily saved her, even if she shoot it some first aid and caffine (if he could manege to wake her up enough do she could drink) would do the trick. He could just call paramedics they would gave her some narcan and she would be fine.
"Did you take a high school girl to her prom?" "Did you help a teen mom sneak out of rehab and take her to a high school party?" I love how Biscuits gets some things wrong that make Bojack seem like a worse person and some things wrong that seriously downplay his actions. It makes the interview seem so real.
It really does. And it sucks that nobody will probably know the full extent of it. Like yeah taking a high school girl to prom is weird, even if it was a “family friend” (which is debatable since he technically met them two months prior) but nobody besides Pete, Maddie, and Penny (Hollyhock too) would know that Bojack provided them with alcohol and one of the kids almost died from alcohol poisoning. Before manipulating the situation to make everyone think that he wasn’t there and didn’t know what happened. Which is alarming when you realize that’s pretty much what he did with Sarah Lynn and her overdose… goodness.
I've never been so angry at a character I've grown invested in - that 17 minute reveal and the 'power over women' connections made me hate BoJack more than any of the individual scenes we'd been privy to up to now. I didn't feel like he really took any of the responsibility for his actions I wanted him to by the end of the show - and I guess that's mostly like real life.
He should’ve died at the end of the “View from halfway down” episode, at least that’s what I wanted, all of his life he found a way to make himself and all of the people around him suffer, he isn’t going to change and going to prison isn’t going to change him, he honestly should’ve just died and at least get a bittersweet ending, people hated him but now that he’s gone they would’ve missed him.
@@stungun0 That's not the point of the show. Death is the easy way out, the worst and fair punishment for bojack is living with the consequences of his acts and ending up alone. There's not good and evil, bojack is not a bad person. He's not good either. None of us are. It's even said specifically by Diane I think. You can mean well in the inside like bojack and that's why we empathize with him, but you're defined by your actions and that's why we hate him all the same. The point of the show is that you're not good nor evil, but you can be so broken that you're bad for people around you no matter what you feel. It's not bojack's fault to be this toxic because no one's really at fault of anything in life. You get the hand you're dealt with and if that means you're bad for everyone else they'll push you out of their life and punish you. All you can do is keep moving forward, accept your cards and try to be better with them. Which is what bojack ultimately do. TL:DR He didn't mean anything bad he did, which is why we can't hold him accountable for it, but in real life that doesn't mean (rightfully) he can nor will be forgiven. Realizing that is the goal of bojack' s life which he achieves at the end. "Sometimes life is shit and you keep living". PD: What I love about the show is how it breaks with all the romanticism rules we have for life that don't apply in reality about justice, honesty, guilt, love, death and happiness.
Jwanma I know that is not the point of the show, but I see a bit of BoJack in me, I can relate to him more than any of the other characters And I’ve always thought that death is the easy way out, and why not take the easy way out? Maybe BoJack had to face what he did but he really wasn’t obligated, he could’ve just died and be done with it I wish one day with death, to finally rest eternally and be in peace, I don’t know how can someone like Bojack keep on living, I would’ve given up decades ago
@@stungun0 That's when the line "oh no Bojack, there's no other side, this is it" plays its role. There is no peace in death, there's nothing. Peace is a way of happiness and you can only be happy while you live. I think ultimately bojack finds peace accepting consequences which will lead to him dying when he has to die without regretting not killing himself earlier in life.
What I love about this scene is how we KNOW Bojack isn’t intentionally trying to abuse power in his relationships, but seeing it all laid out bare shows us how he has undeniably horrible things and he has no excuses for his actions.
Thats why the writing on this show is so amazing. Bojack isn't a good guy by any means, but seeing things from his point of view does make it seem like he's just a hapless unfortunate dude. But when you put it all in perspective the power he abuses is absolutely clear
@@k_schreibzExactly. I think that’s part of how it plays into the media satire of the show, where you take for instance, the New Mexico situation As viewers, we understand that Bojack had a sort of existential crisis and moved to New Mexico to live with Charlotte. He was battling an unrequited love for Charlotte, not because of really who she is, but because she represents the literal ‘Escape from LA’. Bojack grows to love the family, and grows connected to Penny because she’s the closest thing to the young Charlotte, but kisses Charlotte and is told to leave. He turns down Penny once, and then accepts a second time and is kicked out of the house. That’s what we see inside Bojack’s mindset. However, from the outside looking in, just at the bare facts, Bojack moved into an old family friends house, grew uncomfortably close with his friends teenage daughter and basically groomed her into sex. You can justify something all you want, but it will look a certain way to the rest of the world
i love that we can see exactly why bojack would think he was innocent - he didn't have this master plan about how he was going to abuse women, he just did what he felt like in the moment. yet from a viewers perspective you can tell exactly what attracts bojack to these power dynamics - people who looked up to him or people he could help must've really boosted his ego when he hates himself, and he told himself it was a fair trade because they got to be with the person they idolised despite that being the problem. they misunderstood him and he took advantage of that misunderstanding for an ego boost and a 'connection' with someone who's nice to him.
The thing is we see how miserably bad Bojack's self-loathing is in earlier episodes. His opinion of himself is so low he might genuinely not comprehend how he possibly COULD have power over anyone. Of course he does and all that combined with his innate selfishness and bitterness lead to the worst version of himself.
"The worst part is she doesnt even care, it's just a ratings grab for her." You see, the first interview, sure. After Paige Sinclair talked to her, you can tell Biscuits was offended as a woman. I'm lowkey surprised she didn't bring up the Gina situation
I'm not, actually. If Gina didn't want to expose him, then it wasn't Biscuit's place to victimize her all over again. That's something for the victim to decide.
Nyarlath Begins it's been a month since you mentioned this but I'm glad biscuits didn't drag Gina back into all this- I'm glad she got her movie roll, and what bojack did can be between her and her therapist.
Biscuits did the interview with Gina and Bojack before. Maybe after all the new information about Bojack surfaced, she might have realised herself that it was a lie too.
@@cartoonlover985 that's what I'm saying, I'm surprised she didn't reference the first interview because at this point she knows Bojack is all bs. But like somebody pointed out she likely didn't do that for Gina's sake since she just wanted the whole ordeal over
I remember when Bojack said he wanted to do a second interview acting all cocky I nearly yelled 'NO' to my TV screen, I knew he was being way too greedy and desperate for positive attention.
“And you don’t think you have power over women?” There is something about that line that felt like it hit me like ton of bricks after Biscuit pointed out so many of the things that Bojack did that make it as clear as day. The fact that Bojack more or less walk into this because he was getting high off of the admiration he was getting from the first interview only added to it. God I love this show
@MasteroMatter true, Bojack have been crappy to the men in his life but it never been to the same extent as it had been to Sarah Lynn, or his girlfriend who he strangled on camera. He was also about to have sex with an minor when he got rejected by her mother. During the interview he immediately threw Sharon under the bus (who he got fired from her job to save himself all those years ago) and didn’t even consider it being Doctor. I do think that some of what the interviewer did was performative but at the same time, she did hold up a mirror to Bojack toxic behavior by pointing out his relationships with women in particular
Old boy just can’t let a thing go. He had a great (if slightly disingenuous) first interview, but the dopamine hit from the burst of public praise went to his head, he did the second interview despite PC suggesting not to and he subsequently crashes and burns. Bojack may be trying to be better but his ego and weak coping mechanisms do him no favors. He’s a person who needs a solid amount of structure to really thrive. If the only validation he knows is from a cheering audience, he’s doomed to always be in pursuit of that and will never feel satisfied. I hope that after the ending, he does some serious therapy and soul searching to redirect his own path to happiness in a more healthy way.
You're right. In the final episode after PC tells him that Horny Unicorn did well and he may get offers after he's out of prison, you can see that he gets this sort of rush talking about trying to balance out his time volunteering at the prison with taking up those acting job offers. PC gets this worried look on her face, like if she regrets telling him about those offers. I think she knows that he could easily fall back into his old ways if he goes down that road again. The best thing for Bojack is to just stay away from the spotlight. He needs to retire from acting. He was happiest when he was working at the college. His most dangerous characteristic is not his alcoholism but, like you said, his own ego and narcissism.
Brian Nava Yep, that’s exactly it. I do sympathize with Bojack in that even from a very early age (and a very early episode) with Downer Ending (S1, E11), his mother Beatrice taught him that he could get conditional love by performing the Lollipop Song at her parties. So the only way that he’s known to get conditional love has been through that: performing, putting on a good show, doing what he’s told. I think the only way he’s ever going to feel self actualize or actually like himself is just by becoming a spectator again as opposed to a performer. Which, like you said, has a lot to do with him being a teacher or at the very least just not being involved with in the Hollywoob system. He definitely can’t patch things up with Charlotte or Hollyhock, but I think him taking himself out of any kind of public spotlight will be the best possible thing for him. I’m hoping that he will eventually end up with a similar trajectory like Diane. She got involved with someone that deeply cared about her and genuinely always wanted the best for her, she was able to come to terms with her depression and trusted that things would turn out for the best with Guy and put the work into it.
@@briannava3824 I don't think he would be wrong again if he ended up in the spotlight again. If he made a mistake again, he would be hated by everyone again, and if it happened a second time, then death would be really his only way out this time.
People don’t seem to understand how influential and important childhood is and if you’ve seen bojacks there was no structure his parents did everything in their *power* to demolish any semblance of structure. I feel like I’m the only sane person in this comment section who isn’t a single minded sheep.
Right? He really needs that praise because he never felt it as a kid and would try so hard to perform so he could finally get some positive attention. He’s even terrified that his efforts won’t be seen (always asking if people get his jokes).
Well it’s a big yikes but is also kind of funny and some sort ironic, bojack was abused by his mom , and scared of the tv producer of horsin around. But honestly I still hate bojack for what he did to Sarah Lynn
It’s a super deflecting way of saying deep down that he does feel this way. He does feel that he has power over women or at least wants relationships that he can be the one in control. It also offers the possibility that he wants said power over women because of his domineering mother. this interview is a fascinating look into Bojack psyche
I see what you're saying but I dont think its entirely Bojack that just "held power over them" at some point, they gave up their power when they willingly indulged in reckless behavior with him.
@@brandynlovett4054 it could be that with some people, like diane for example, but bojack also chooses to be in relationships with women who he naturally has some kind of power over, like dating a girl who had just woken up from a coma, etc.and it may not even be something he realizes, or something he means to do, but the way he leads relationships puts him in this pattern. i do agree it could be them giving up power, but it also could just be a weird subconcious things bojack does-- i think it can go both ways which is why this scene is so hard
That panicked "No!" When Biscuits asks Bojack if he ever wondered if Sarah Lynn might have survived if he had called for help sooner. It sounds like equal parts guilt and trauma, equal parts "no, don't make me relive that night" and "no, I can't bear the blame for her death." Like he had never even thought about it that way before this.
6:47 interesting how he says here that they were both _so_ drunk and high, yet when you rewatch that scene way back in episode 3, BoJack literally says “we’re both a _little_ drunk” right before it happens. So he 100% knew what he was doing back then, and it didn’t even register as a bad thing because he was just so used to indulging himself whenever he could.
Well, he is also a huge horse and an addict with a strong tolerance. Sarah Lynn hadn't had any drugs or alcohol in months and was a fairly petite human woman. There was simply no way she could keep up that bender with him.
@@carlycrays2831 that was a different bender, the one I’m talking about happened before she went sober for a time and they were _both_ slightly intoxicated. Ik you’re probably joking, but yeah
All the details and dialogue make the scene so fucking good I swear to God. The Nervous gulp in the audio right at the end, The cut to Princess Caroline when he talks about Sarah Lynn being the only girl he loved in any way, this is such a solidly written scene
Oof the 2nd interview was a mental chess match. Biscuits had Bojack on the rails. Completely powerless. Once he blamed Sharona, it was a wrap. Bojack was cooked. The entire scene left my skin crawling after that assessment.
What I'm mad about is that Biscuits didn't go for the throat on the first interview. She let Paige - a self-centered sociopath - bully her into doing the second interview. That cheapened the victory because Paige didn't even care about Bojack's victims - she STALKED Penny from the diner she worked at to Charlotte's house just to make her relive what she went through.
About halfway through the 2nd interview I actually had to stop watching for a few days. Seeing Bojack backslide from 6 seasons worth of character development in the span of 5 minutes made me feel physically sick.
that...isn't the lesson you should be taking from the show. you can absolutely change, and should if you are toxic to yourself and others. the problem with bojack wasn't that he didn't change, it was that he didn't recognise the parts of himself that he should change e.g. he gets sober, but doesn't confront why he was an alcoholic in the first place, resulting in an easy fall from the wagon.
@@s.g.7572 I sincerely believe change is possible in anyone if they want to. But they really have to want it and, as you said, recognise what has to be changed. Bojack had the potential to change, he had the resources and the friends help him change and he half assed it and stopped the second he felt just a little better about himself Change isn’t a one stop shop and you’re done, you keep at it every day and be thankful you’re just a little bit better than you were the day before
I mean they slowly reveal it in the middle of season 6. When the reporters are contacting him, his first thought is how to protect his own image. We never actually see him "feel bad" about leaving Sarah Lynn in the planetarium. It's all about his image.
17 minutes...that’s a really long fucking time to treat some suffering an overdose. 17 minutes I had to rewatch this clip to fully Realize the gravity of the situation. Sarah Lynn was a child at least to bojack she was mentally a teenager or a young adult who still looked up to bojack in the end and it took him 17 minutes.
Bojack did change for the better, but he refused to be held accountable, that was his issue. He changed but he did not want to be punished for being a terrible person, and this scene made everyone in Biscuit's audience realize who he was in the past - because he needed to face consequences for ruining so many people's lives
im shocked very few people are talking about how inappropriate his reaction was after the first interview. seeing him boastful and contempt with himself really shows how stunted his emotional growth is and how everything seemed like one big stunt. he never really TRULY looked at how shitty of a person he was and how that interview wasn't supposed to wrap a nice, sweet bow on his actions. then, to go ahead with a part 2 and try toppling his "performance" from the first interview, while one of his best friends (who's also one of his biggest enablers) says no to the idea, just to be met with the harsh reality that he really is a pos person was sickening, but deserved. bojack had this coming from the beginning and even though it was painful to sit through and watch, it was a full circle moment to see him come to terms with who he really was- a shitty person that will do anything and everything he can to maintain a certain image, no matter who or what comes in his way.
Good on Biscuits for not backing down when Bojack tries to change the topic or speak over her, she knows what she came to do and she's showing Bojack that he's not in control anymore
I winced when he threw Sharona under the bus when they literally just rekindled and he even apologized to her. That whole apology and taking accountability went right out the window
I think a lot of people miss the point of the 17 minutes revel. It wasn’t that bojack just let her die he did try to save her but he made sure to save himself first. This revel doesn’t retcon anything bojack has always been a selfish person and something like this isn’t ooc for him to do at all. If anything the revel made his extreme guilt and regret about the situation even more understandable
What really gets me is that he could've saved Sara Lynn's life, I got so sad after her death and Bojack did the absolute opposite of trying to help her. I think the writers wanted to show that you can't just simply kill the protagonist as a consequence of his poor life decisions, Bojack had to pay for what he's done and live with that. I still think the death ending would be better, like Heisenberg in Breaking Bad, but I understand why they ended the show the way it did.
@@righthandstep5 still it could have be better. if anything bojack kinda felt at peace in prison and even he himself thought to prefer staying there because going out was too scary.
@@righthandstep5 I liked the idea of him surviving bit not that much he apparently enjoying Prison (Even if it is implied (according to dime theories) he had an easy Time in Prison thanks the favour he gained from The mexican cartel from The very First episode (Even If Bojack doesn't know it). I kinda thought Bojack would get in Prison all the ways he hurt people but magnified. Like Say, he nearly killed his Girlfriend, that's one of the things he gets in Prison. All the way up to the point he get molested and gets paralyzed from The Hip to the legs And Maybe then have him try to commit suicide but THEN we have him fail and he now has to live paralyzed. It would be a Nice contrast to how Bojack's Idol, secretariat, when unable to run, killed himself but Bojack (now unable To Even walk) actually decides to continúe living (some showing of subtle character development of him managing to do what Secretariat Couldn't Even if Bojack doesn't notice)
I have so many thoughts about season 6 but basically even if bojack changed/is trying to change, people have every right to not forgive him. everything he did was just awful and people have a right to draw a line somewhere.
One of the worst things he did to a woman doesn't even get mentioned and Biscuit played a role in that, Bojack is a giant horse man who overpowered and choked out a tiny human woman and the world just acted like it didn't happen but narratively that's actually a good move. The writers didn't go for the lame extreme most media always goes for where an "abuser" is depicted as a borderline satire eg. an abusive parent/husband is a wife-beater wearing slurring drunk who only communicates with his potato sack wearing kids and meek wife by hitting them. That trope is a plague that haunts every person who has ever suffered psychological abuse when they try to tell their story, an abuser comes in many shapes and forms where they look perfectly normal on the outside until you really look at their behavior and the writing team makes an effort to show that with Bojack and his parents behaviour, PC's mother and Dianes parents. The kids in question had a home, clothes on their back and food so to the person who believes in bare minimum parenting that's a win. The parents are good, end of discussion right? And Bojack's correct in saying he didn't force himself on any of the consenting age women he had sex with so regardless of his age and power it's all ok right? The one time Bojack used his physical strength to hurt a woman doesn't get attention here because it's too obvious and the writing team deserves every accolade they receive!
@@TheFPSKingsGaming Ironically enough i wouldn't be surprised she tried to reveal that once bojack's story with women was revelaed if only for other costars to understand why she can be difficult to deal with. while gaining sympathy points
@@ianr.navahuber2195 she didn’t want sympathy points. She hated Bojack and hated what happened and if she could she would forget it ever happened. It’s probs the same reason as penny she didn’t speak ip
I think the trope of the wifebeater or the stereotypical abuser exists because those are the people who get caught. Those people who make it so obvious it is undeniable to those around them that they are an abusive POS.
this show is so good it's like the opposite of rick and morty. shitty behavior isn't okay and saying sorry is not your redemption arc, no matter how cool or smart you think you are.
@@thepredman9lol266 it’s not that they will never forget the show. It’s that they’ll forget the lessons within the show and keep going with their awful behaviour.
There was never a redemption arc for Rick. He is a tortured soul and it seems like as seasons go by Morty is starting to split off from Rick and try to undue the damage he is causing. Rick is losing friends and family kind of in a similar way Bojacks friends just kind of distanced himself from him. Sure Rick atm has had little to no consequences for his actions, but bojack didn't TRULY pay for his crimes till later seasons. He has had some messed up moments but it all didnt collapse and come together till later seasons. Before it was just individual moments. Clearly atm they are building up for the pay off against Rick and I'm not even really watching the show. But the shows are so vastly different its an odd comparison to make. Bojack is more grounded and is supposed to fuck with you mentally. It's supposed to make you think and has commentary on lots of different aspects of life. It has its comedy but it's far more serious.
Im happy Biscuits gave it to him and im happier that Bojack finally acknowledged what I wanted him to acknowledge the whole time; that he IS that guy. Hes always going to be that guy. Changing doesn't erase the pain you caused other people and it doesn't absolve you of consequences. Bojack is always going to be the same person who let Sarah Lynn die, who tried to molest Penny, ruined Todds rock opera, Choked his costar, etc. Im not saying that change isnt possible, im saying that changing the person does not change the situation. Its like Bryce Walker from 13RW, he raped, and hes always going to be that guy who raped girls, but he did try to change himself for the better and it was sort of working until he was killed. My point is, both characters had to stop saying "im not that guy anymore" and start saying "yes, im that guy, but im trying to do better"
assyrianprincess motive definitely does matter though. Bojack didn’t prey on girls who were vulnerable or wanted to specifically be with people who he had power over. As bojack says. Most people aren’t schemers. He simply accepted whatever love or attention a woman or any person would give him. Obviously it is morally wrong what happened with Penny and what he almost did. But he wasn’t praying on her or “grooming” her. He never schemed to “have power over women”. Also I thought it was quite sexist (towards women) to assume that every single relationship bojack was in he had power over every woman.
@@evelyn9273 I agree strongly I dont like it when media paints a picture of us not having sexual power, woman have alot of power if they like and own their bodies , it can be shifted and has been shifted, just becuase you have sex with a guy doesnt make him more powerful then you I was confused by that as well.
The thing about Bojack is that he is so well written that you emphatize with him, as himself, I didn't even realized how awful everything he did was until this scene, because you understand him so much you kinda justify him without realizing it. This is the moment the writters tell you that Bojack is not a good person and should not be justified, from this moment I hoped he didn't had a good ending because he didn't deserved it. I love your perspective on how "that guy" is always going to be "that guy" and even if he gets better he can never change what he did. Bojack is the incarnation of that, he didn't deserved a happy ending, but he did deserved the opportunity to make things right and I love the ending because of that.
@@lucyluna9131 I think the scary part about this show is that, you've came all this way to learn about Bojack, and you eventually started nesting yourself into him. Even with all the bad things, we put our own experiences into how he feels after his own. Now, he is being exposed for it all... Right in front of him, and it's true what Diane said; If you clump every bad thing someone has done, it makes them look like a terrible person. But that's the thing, it's not excusable. None of it is. Say what you will about having to have a "better outlook" in life. This scene completely tears down that logic, because really nothing can justify it. I don't want to spread a bad message and say that you are a fuck up and deserve to die. The only thing that can justify your bad actions, is if others forgive you on it, in whatever extent. Because bad things come in different sizes. But what's even scarier here is that, what if we do something beyond what is justifiable here, like Bojack? We hold on to feeling bad for him, as well as not wanting to relate to Bojack, because we all feel like if some skeletons came out of our own closets, we'd all be held accountable for the bad actions we ourselves committed. And we would face the same humiliation, guilt and hatred from others, probably all by ourselves. And that's where the argument here lies with others; does Bojack deserve anything he gets slung at? Does he deserve a happy ending? Does he deserve closure? I feel like the more you relate to Bojack, the more you fall in favor for him. The more you don't, the more you hate him. Which is also ironic, because this show pretty much taught us that, no one really is a good guy. None of us are perfect Angels. So now what? Well, personally, I believe the writers created this paradox on purpose. Because what the final season taught me was, it's not always about what you did, and how you affect others, but how no matter what, you can't change what you did in the past at any moment, but you can change what you do in the future to prevent other misfortunes, burdens, and further damage to yourself and others. That's just my intake of it, at least.
“I’m not sure it would be fair to the other people affected by those mistakes all who I’ve apologized to in private.” Was such a good cop out for that question.
New detail I noticed: “So I can’t be with any woman I MIGHT have power over? Who does that leave me with?” He may not know it, but he’s admitting that he views himself as having power over EVERY WOMAN HE KNOWS. Jesus Christ, Bojack.
I mean, he does. That's the scariest thing, he does hold more power than the vast majority of women. There are women who have more money and influence than he does, but he isn't dating those woman and even if he did, he is still a very strong adult horse who could more than likely physically overpower them if he wanted.
If you feel more sympathy for Bojack than for all his victims you're missing the point. You don't and shouldn't have to side with him just because he's the MC and you know his good side.
Yeah, really. I honestly don't feel sympathy for BoJack at this point. Much like the episodes that explore Beatrice's childhood, I do pity BoJack in a way. And I hope he stops hurting other people, mostly for their sake. But I don't really sympathize with him after everything he's done.
You can feel sympathy for both because in the end they're all coming from fucked up situations. I'd like to think that maybe if they had better lots, they'd be better people
It really kills me to say this, but that reveal to me about the 17 minutes in between. It wasn't shocking to me. I felt like I knew already that's what he did. People covering their own asses even if someone dies. And so I'm left with, did I just not make a big deal out of that because I want a bad man to still be forgiven? Or did I not care because the friends and role models have done things worse, and I'm ok with them to get away with it
"did I just not make a big deal out of that because I want a bad man to still be forgiven?" I think there are a ton of people who watched the showed and whitewashed a lot of the bad things Bojack Horseman did. In their minds, he's just "vulnerable." There are even people in this comment section still defending him.
I assumed he played dumb with cops telling them "we were hanging out doing a little drinking, I didn't know she was doing H behind my back. " I thought that's how he covered his ass I'm ok with that.. Kind of. If we doin drugs and I OD u can play stupid, but help me doe...
i was happy before this ep because i actually thought he was changing. after the first interview he got carried away with the people thanking him because he "helped" them but really it was also out of selfishness because he felt good getting those praises again. he immediately forgot that it was about sarah lynn in the first place. i think he truly did deserve this and honestly I'm glad pc dipped out this time too. but despite all this, ironically it doesn't ruin bojack's character and instead just makes the writing more impressive
The 17 minutes thing is what made me realize i need to get my shit together so i dont end up like bojack- i haven't had problems with substance abuse and I don't treat people badly like he did, but I was still all over the place and this episode made me realise how much impact my mistakes could have on other people and I needed to take accountability for when I had messed up and stop blaming something my mom said to me when i was 5 or some chemical imbalance or other people around me for the decisions i made by myself.
I feel so bad for Princess Caroline in this moment cuz the dots in her mind are finally connecting and she’s realizing how she stood by the wrong person for so many years.
Only BoJack Horseman can have a scene of dialogue between a Horse and a Chinchilla be more realistic than what real people can say and do... You know, if this show was entirely real people, maybe it would cross the line of "Hitting way too hard'
"Did you take a high school girl to her prom?" "Did you help a teen mom sneak out of rehab and take her to a high school party?" What I like here is that, in both of these cases, Biscuits doesn't have the full story. In one of these cases, it makes Bojack look like a perv, and in the other one, if she did know the full story, it would absolutely prove that he is.
6:25 PC's reaction really makes Bojack's 'i do love you by the way. as much as im capable of loving anyone, which is never enough.' hit different. she realizes he loved sarah lynn the most, more than he loved her, more than he loved all the other women he's abused, and yet he still didn't love her enough to save her life. so then how much did he ever truly love her? 25 years she wasted loving him..
I really enjoyed the parallels of PC being right about not taking the second interview and her instinct about leaving the Mitch's Life script as it was. Bojack got tripped by his own ego and lack of trust in PC both times, and it led to huge crashes in his life.
What makes the Sarah Lynn situation more tragic is California has a Good Samaritan Law, so Bojack could of called for help without the fear of legal repercussions. It was all about the PR with him..
"So I can't be with any woman I have power over? Who does that leave me with?" Bruh ain't no way he thought this was a good rebuttal. his mouth be movin' faster than his brain.
That's why this show is so good: the main character is wrong most of the time, he is a awful person. We have just to find out why he's such a douche, And at the end of the show we know everything of bojack: who are his parents, How was his childhood, How was his career, who are his friends, girlfriends, colleagues, everything and we discover that he's a way more complex character than many others we've seen. At the end he got punished for his mistakes and he deserves it, but we all feel sorry in a way.
Bojack did play a big part of how Sarah Lynn's life played out and ultimately ended, but he was not the only one. Her abusive parents were also to blame, and the even profited from her death.
That's the one thing I hated, that Bojack had to pay Sarah Lynn's parents of all people. I'm not mad he had to give up that money, but I am mad that they're the ones who got the money. Especially since they more than likely already took all of her assets when she died
The thing is, her parents may have greatly, greatly contributed to her addiction, but he parents weren't the ones who convinced her to go on that bender. That was all Bojack
@@carlycrays2831 bojack didn't convinced her though she was staying sober cause you get more high after not taking drugs for a long time she was going to do drugs with or without bojack
Just realised - Bojack keeps saying there are no connections, as if each incident exists in a vacuum like an episode of a sitcom. Biscuits is the one pointing out that he's the common thread between them
Even if you don’t like how Biscuit is coming off here, you have to agree with her. Bojack thinks he doesn’t have any power over women, yet he had the power to save a woman’s life, someone who he claims “was like a daughter” to him yet played a vital role in destroying her life till it finally killed her.
My issue is that she let Paige - a woman who didn't care about the victims - encourage her into doing that second interview. If Biscuits really cared about the victims, she should've been relentless at the first interview.
Not really. He plays the Horny Unicorn in the movie of the same name and it is implied in the finale that he will return to Hollywoob as if nothing had happened, just as Vance Wagner tried in season 5.
The crazy thing is if you watch this entire video twice it's still not quite the full 17 minutes but it puts into perspective how long those 17 minutes were.
I feel like the writers were telling the toxic fans "you didn't listen when we said you shouldn't use a show to justify your shitty behavior so now we gotta beat you over the head with it"
@@marinaparra8838 With Philbert. Philbert was essentially a parody of these sort of self-justifying toxic male figures that Hollywood uses to rationalise their awful behaviour. Philbert is essentially how Rick Sanchez is seen by certain groups on the Internet.
@@s.g.7572 also dianes rant after bojack's acceptance speech about philbert making people feel less shitty about their actions
The message gets even stronger when Bojack befriends the Mel Gibson stand in and meets a bunch of douchey frat boys who defend him.
Honestly, Bojack wasn’t completely in the wrong.
@@s.g.7572 Philbert is essentially a BoJack
Man.. the look on Princess caroline's face when he said he loved sarah lynn but not the other girls... can't believe I missed that. You deserve better, PC
I'm so glad she got best boy Judah.
the first time i watched it i was a little confused as to why pc was so upset with bojack after the second interview but iv since seen that that was why
maybe it's a woman thing but i caught that right away
Bojack is an asshole, no need for him to like PC
He did love princess Caroline tho so I don’t entirely understand that line
Maybe he meant the girls he just hooked up with (he and P.C. had an actual relationship)
Maybe it was meant to show how good bojack is and twisting his own words to make himself look bad
The reason they had this scene was to tell everyone who identifies with bojack's behaviour that it's not OK. You have no excuses
Jokes on you and the writing staff, I still idolize Bojack.
@Wasabi Lover Just kidding I don't idolize Bojack, and therapy is kinda useless and expensive.
Yet people will still defend his behavior
@@jessiang9708 exactly. like there are things that bojack does and the show makes it clear that bojack was in the wrong yet a lot of fans ive seen in comments, mostly guys, somehow defend bojack and i think they see themselves a little in him and want to feel sorry for him sort of like self pity.
@@Valentine-jo7ls That makes me sad then because the show has helped me be a better person. Bojack has redeeming qualities, but I feel the show is seen best when you see how Bojack’s destructive behavior worsens life for himself and everyone else around him in the end. Only in the last season do you see him make attempts to turn things around but in general Bojack’s actions shouldn’t be idealized as admirable.
“It's not the alcohol, or the drugs, or any of the shitty things that happened to you in your career, or when you were a kid. It's you. Okay? It's you.”- Todd
That moment when Todd took a break from being the bumbling lovable dude to deck us in the face with reality
"... Fuck, man. What else there's to say?"
Okay I don't really watch the show so I don't know the full context to this quote but I will say to human beings in general that quote is false. It's literally impossible to grow up and build character without retaining certain aspects from your childhood or important or traumatic experiences from your life. No matter who you are you can contribute your attitude and morals to your upbringing so I do know that Bojack's upbringing was fucked. I'm not saying that's a free pass for the way he's acted and treated people throughout his life but you can see that he doesn't want to be this way. That's the major difference between the people who believe you can mold yourself to your own design and the people who believe it's all your upbringings fault. Now Bojack didn't try very hard to change himself but you could see he always had these mental battles with himself because he knew what he was doing was fucked but he had no willpower to change it because he believed there was nothing he could do to change it. So yes in a way it is just him making these mistakes, but the alcohol and drugs and shitty things that happened in his career one hundred percent stemmed from when he was a kid and from the way he shows remorse towards his actions I'm sure he could have been raised to be a fine young man if he just had the opportunity.
@@KupcakeKitten you're right but, he's an adult now no one is affecting his actions. that's what Todd means when he says it's him. Bojack has the power to make whatever choices he wants and he still hurts people. a lot of people have hard lives but, that's not an excuse in the moment to be toxic toward people you're supposed care about.
@@theshockinglyeloquentdog9945 Childhood trauma doesn't vanish when you hit 18, dude. It takes years to unpack and process it all, so even if Bojack started working on it in season two, given how realistic the show is, chances are, he'd be at the point he is in this interview. It takes years and some behaviors are so ingrained that they can't be erased, only managed and there should be forgiveness for when one can no longer manage them. (Not saying Sarah's death was forgivable/excusable. Let's not jump the shark of expectations here.)
for me, the worst part is the 17 minutes. Bojack consciously waited 17 whole minutes, while Sarah Lynn was still alive and suffering, to call for help. just to cover his own ass. it breaks my heart that if he had called immediately she could've survived.
Exactly. It showed that Bojack is consciously doing all these bad things and doesn’t care about harming others. I thought that maybe he was just an extremely inconsiderate person but that 17 minutes really sealed the deal for me.
Or maybe she wouldn’t. But it doesn’t matter, because even if she didn’t survive if Bojack had called 911 right away, at least he would come out with a decent moral fiber.
Sorry to be so offtopic but does anyone know of a method to get back into an Instagram account..?
I was dumb forgot the password. I love any tips you can give me.
@@Lndo-sh1xl Even during their bender, Sarah Lynn is desperately trying to reach out to Bojack and talk about these things that are destroying her inside, but Bojack selfishly keeps shutting her down and either changing the subject or giving her more drugs, simply because he himself didn't want to have to deal with her emotional needs. She kept wanting to go to the planetarium throughout the entire episode, and Bojack finally does so, but not to be kind to her. He only did it cuz she was trying to talk to him again and he was out of other ideas to distract her.
He used her. Sarah Lynn was nothing but a tooI for Bojack to avoid having to look at himself or confront his own personal demons. He never cared about her as an actual person, only in terms of what she could do for him.
I thought she was already dead
"I loved Sarah Lynn, she was like a daughter to me"
Saying that, just seconds shy of admitting you had sex with her (when she was drunk and high af, after you yourself got her out of sobriety) is freaking disgusting.
Bojack is the best written "bad character" I've ever seen! lmao
@@BlackWingedSeraphX ikr there are so many ppl like him
I like how people focus on the part that he says he loved her like a daughter, because people who never lived with a narcisist don't comprehend the absolute level of lies they put on themselfs just to appear likable while making 0 effort to understand that people won't like you because of your image but because of your TRUE character.
he didn't said he loved her like a daughter because it is true, he said so because he thought it would be the most "sugar coated" shit he could have said at the momment. And yes, it's that fucking quickly, the mind of af a narcisist is trained to lie faster than it can think about truth.
to sum things up, he didn't loved sarah as a daughter, he never loved her at all, or nobody in his life, not even himself.
he was drunk and high too at the time. Also, like he said, it was a different bender (in season 1), when she wasn't yet in sobriety.
But even if it was on the season 3 bender, Sarah Lynn herself said on a previous episode she was planning on going back on drugs and was only going sober to get higher when she did go back. (Bojack was still wrong for encouraging it, but it's not like she planned on staying sober in the long run either, and the fact she agreed to get high again without hesitation proves that)
@@BlackWingedSeraphX he’s actually an awesome character but a horrible person
The worst thing is everyone forgot about Sarah Lynn's awful mother and step father.
yeah..... the show kinda bended backwards a little in the second half of final season to have bojack AND ONLY BOJACK face consequences.
Any time i watch Todd post season 4 I keep thinking "YOU LET CLOWN DENTIST WHO HAVE TURNED INTO ZOMBIES INTO THE WILD AND YOU DON'T EVEN FEEL A SINGLE TRACE OF GUILT OR REMORSE?! WHAT THE HELL?!"
@@ianr.navahuber2195 Esteemed Character-Actress Margot Martindale was given a pass for killing multiple people because everyone agreed she'd be really good in an upcoming role too.
@@georgeprchal3924 Yeah. I would forgive the show for things like that if it at least say the "Life is unfair" usual motto. Some bad people who did bad actions get frogiven, some good people who did good things get punishment, some people do get what they deserve, but not what they needed, and some get what they needed but not what they deserved." usual lesson.
especially considering that bojack's case could have easily casued something in the show's Hollywoo similar to what happened in real life with the #MeToo movement
Also it was weird that Margot suddenly felt guilty over what she did to Todd when, in anything, she seemed to enjoy what that decision led her to do
@@ianr.navahuber2195 also that Sarah Lynn was a 30 something adult and made her own choices.
But does that matter? Bojack didn't know or care how bad the abuse was when he was enabling her and sleeping with her.
“And you don’t think you have any power over women?”
That line makes my spine *shiver* every time I hear it.
And too many men (and women, abuse is not gender-restrictive) are never told this harsh reality of their abuse of power in social situations.
And she touches her scarf twice, reminding him of the strangling incident.
@@celarania I feel like it's a sign that even Biscuits was getting nervous around Bojack's increasingly aggressive gestures.
Same
@@celarania good catch, but i agree with carly. bojack would be scary to confront irl, especially knowing about (almost) everything he's already done to women.
"I took her to rehab, by the way. I tried to get her help."
Then a year or so later, you interrupted her 9 months of sobriety to deal with *your* anxieties and insecurities, and took her on the bender that killed her, but not before you further traumatized a girl you nearly had sex with when she was 17.
Bojack, you are a horrible person.
@@tonzennegger7185 Yes, but the point I was making wasn't about Penny. It was about how Bojack claimed to help Sarah Lynn, but he was the reason that she died.
Also, while Penny wasn't innocent, guess who was morally bankrupt and desperate enough to nearly fulfill her wish? While Penny wasn't innocent, neither was Bojack. And yes, it DID traumatize her. Nothing has to happen for it to traumatize someone. Stop trying to paint all women as liars who blame everything on men, and just acknowledge that this fictional man did do a bunch of crappy stuff.
@@kieravermeal9127 frankly I believe Penny's panic attacks comes from Bojack coming to her campus unannounced with stereotypical stalking getup. I could somewhat emphatize with that.
I don't wanna justify bojack, but her 9 months of sobriety were utter bs. She stayed sober because, and I quote her, the high would be so much better (without tolerance). Also her house was full of drugs, she didn't have the intention to come clean at all.
And again, this doesn't justify bojack's actions. But it's a point everyone misses.
@@BlackStormMC Sarah Lynn looked for an exçuse to start drugs again, but if she didnt find one in 9 months, then how long would she have lasted without Bojack? Maybe she would have died tragically young anyway. But without Bojack it would have probably took a few more years.
@@tonzennegger7185 @fadadapple
"I was seventeen, I didn’t know any better!"
Teenagers are not smart when it comes to choices. Gender has nothing to do with it, but age is. Teenagers are still far from an adult.
One thing I JUST realized is that Sarah Lynn's willingness to have sex with BoJack actually might be due to her Step-father "normalizing" it in her mind and that thought is fucking terrifying.
I know it's not illegal because she was an adult and it was all consensual, but even then, she was his TV daughter, to even think about doing that kind of stuff with someone who you knew as a child when you were an adult is disgusting.
@@Treeeee2008 Already. Even if we have to concede to Bojack that rape is not among his countless faults.
@@Treeeee2008It's the fact that Bojack saw her as a daughter. She wasn't just a kid to him, she was the closest thing her had to a daughter and he killed her
Boy howdy this is a comment I really wish I did not read because boy oh boy sexual trauma really does destroy someone’s consent and boundary setting, couldn’t relate at all nope not at all but holy shit you hit the nail on the head
The cycle that continues when someone doesn't get help, they keep thinking these relationships are normal and being abused and used
I definitely don't think Bojack consciously abuses women specifically but when Biscuits pointed out all the times he's taken advantage of women in the show there is definitely a pattern.
In fairness he abuses the hell out of men too (like tricking peanut butter into buying the restaurant).
Ben Conrad lmao he didn’t trick
peanut butter into buying the restaurant. He got sued and had to sell it and he said “what idiot would buy the restaurant” and the scene cut to mr peanut butter buying the restaurant. It was his own decision
you deserve a sub Princessaur
Ben Conrad the majority of BoJack’s victims are women tho, and in all the incidents Biscuits brought up BoJack had the power (Penny and her friends were teenagers, Wanda had gotten out of a 30 year coma and was essentially a stunted 20 year old (which BoJack is too because of his fame), Marci was an unstable woman obsessed with him, Sarah Lynn was a troubled addict and he took advantage of her self control to go on a bender with her so he could wallow in his own pity etc)
@Spici Dorito Thank God she didn't bring up Gina. That poor girl didn't need her career ruined.
Honestly, what I liked about the second interview is that, initially, we were shown that Biscuits only did the interview for more ratings, but when she learned the true extent of BoJack's actions, you could see her character become genuinely determined to expose BoJack for the horrible person he is. BoJack revealing that he had sex with Sarah Lynn just proceeded to cement her determination.
Biscuits is a woman in Hollywood. No doubt she has known men like Bojack her entire career.
@@carlycrays2831 For her, this might be genuinely personal!
@@nathanseper8738 I think it was sort of was. She didn't have to go in for the kills like this but she did. Yes, it was great for ratings, but that just gave her the safety to push it in a way she couldn't do with most male figures.
@@carlycrays2831Not to mention SL became the Freddie Mercury/Tupac of her universe. You gotta love tragically cut short musicians they're loved more in death than their whole life.
@@falconeshield More like she went from being Lindsay Lohan to Mac Miller, I'd say.
6:27 “i loved sarah lynn! she was like a daughter to me!”
6:40 “she was TEN! i didn’t even have sex with her until she was THIRTY!”
bojack just admitted in (basically) the same breath that the woman he viewed as “a daughter” when she was a child is also the woman who he had sex with when she was legal 💀 this entire interview just makes you realize how sick he really is
That’s so wrong on so many levels 😭😭
I do agree that its extremely sketchy and definitely slimy.
But I'd say definitely better that she was 30, instead of recently turned 18.
Which would add a layer of implication like waiting until she was legal.
@@archkull does it make that much of a difference? he was a father figure to her.
@@dollblooms2358 Yeah it does make a difference. The difference isn't that this one isn't sleazy, its just less creepy. But still creepy.
@@archkull less creepy? it’s more creepy that he waited for her to be an adult.
6:25 "Sarah Lynn wasn't like those other girls. I loved Sarah Lynn!" And cut to the PC, clearly shocked and appalled. That's just cruel...
And to think, even when he loved Sarah Lynn, he basically let her die to save himself from consequences.
I feel like an Idiot. That detail went right over my head!
This interview gets worse and even more uncomfortable everytime I watch it😱
In the previous episode she revealed to him she stayed with him after everything he’s done because she has loved him for the 25 years they’ve worked together, and she wants to get something out of the “sunk costs and all that” because he’s the one love of her life. Now according to BoJack Sarah Lynn was the only woman he ever truly loved, and he let her die.
And when BoJacks ranting outside after the interview he scoffs at how he never took advantage of her and PC just flatly says “I’m still here aren’t I?”.
"she was like a daughter to me!"
"I had sex with her!"
Those sentences do NOT go together
Remember that he's son of Butterscotch and Beatrice Horseman when he's saying "she was like a daughter to me"
“And you don’t think you have any power over women” Daaamnnn
First time I saw that, I had to pause the episode to just take in that amazing moment. Bojack finally being confronted for all his worst behaviours, forced to realize what a dick he's been, even as we the audience are still reeling from the revelation that Sarah Lynn could have survived if Bojack hadn't waited seventeen minutes ...
@@JimmySteller I never understood why he waited 17 minutes? makes no sense
@@slimesdesigns7004 he was grappling with the fear of being blamed for her death and the guilt that came from the knowledge that he was responsible.
SlimesDesigns He knew the police could check the phone records, so in an effort to add credibility to his lie about Sarah Lynn calling him to the planetarium, he called his own cell with hers and then waited 17 minutes to make a reasonable time gap for himself to make it look like he drove there after Sarah Lynn called him.
Robo Blue except being wasn’t because Sarah Lynn said herself that she was looking for literally any excuse at all to fall off the wagon, does that sound like someone who is going to stay sober?
6:06 Anyone gonna mention how Bojack threw Sharonna under the bus just to try and save his own skin? Really goes to show to some extent how much Bojack doesn’t care for the people he’s known or thinks he’s solved his problems with.
Especially since Sharona is, again, a woman he has quite a bit of power over.
He thought she backstabbed him
@Jon Guiriba he thought she exposed him as the shitty person he is so he.....discredits her as crazy. Yeah that's not bad at all
@Jon Guiriba, I don't think anyone's saying it isn't logical. It's still pretty shitty of him. Calling someone crazy for exposing what a shitty person you are is an incredibly shitty, gaslighting thing to do.
@@ashleyjohnson9651 Right! He also discredits her BECAUSE she's an addict all the while trying to get sympathy because he's an addict.
I don't think I've ever been so traumatized by a cartoon.
you were bound to understand one day, i guess
@@sajnasureshnath7581 what are you talking about?
Last time I was this affected by a cartoon Uncle Iroh was singing "Leaves From The Vine,"
@@RocketeerAndRoll Let me say very clear. She was talking about that if you have been so traumatized by successive bad events in this cartoon, most of them patronized by Bojack is due to the fact that you have been in your conduct like bojack. THAT IS THE WORST PART IN THE SHOW, you have to live with your decision. best regards dude
Watch moral orel
Y’all realize bojack is real right? How many celebrities have we let off the hook for criminal behaviour?
That’s why the “it’s just a show” thing doesn’t work
i don't think "we" have let them off the hook. there's not much we can do other than name and shame them, which some of us are doing.
@@user-ln2go4xp6d No because eventually when the trend of hating on said celebrity dies down everyone forgets about it, especially after they've been acquitted
Andy Dick for one, who gave cocaine to a recovering addict at a party. She got high, fell off the wagon, had a mental breakdown and killed her husband - Phil Hartman, aka, Troy McClure from the Simpsons - and then herself, leaving their kids orphans. Like, it was Mrs Hartman’s decision to murder-suicide but she probably wouldn’t have made it if Dick had respected that she was in recovery and not given her drugs. He still gets work.
You guys think its just celebrities? Everybody excuses their loved ones actions constantly and try to act like their beloved brother/parent/child/whatever could never do wrong.
Before this episode, Bojack's guilt over Sarah Lynn's death seemed so sad and sympathetic. The way he couldn't bear to even think of her without feeling awful. And so many of us posted comments talking about how sad we felt for Bojack that he had to go through that. Then this episode comes out, and the truth is revealed about Bojack's callous actions resulting in her dying, in every sense. He waited almost 20 minutes before calling the paramedics. Sarah Lynn, the only woman he claimed to love, still didn't mean enough to him that he was willing to face consequences for her sake,. He preferred to let her die. Going back to older episodes, all his guilt and self-loathing is completely justified. He did a truly monstrous thing, and honestly, I think this shutdown by Biscuit was well deserved.
I mean... He killed someone, i think anyone's first emotion is fear which can cause any reaction. You don't necessarily jump to pick up the phone after killing someone, purposely or not.
Jayarie Fear is one thing, but acting on that fear and meticulously planning an alibi for yourself while someone is still alive and could still be saved? That’s really bad, and it doesn’t reflect well on you if the truth comes out. Nobody, for another example, thinks highly of drivers who hit someone with their car and then speed off without calling 911.
Guy Incognito He killed her by Wating 17 minutes to call the doctors
Yes, that was... so chilling... to learn...
@@guyincognito5706 He knew she was an addict (who was in rehab at the time) and he didn´t care about she trying to recover when he told him to go on a bender. Bojack killed her.
Small detail I noticed after rewatch: around 7:08 when they talk about Sarah Lynn not dying at the planetarium, but at the hospital, you can see Bojack's eyes shrink. You can see him processing what's being told to him in real time. That if he had just sucked up his pride and called for help earlier instead of waiting for 17 MINUTES, she might've still been alive.
*shrank, or contract, not “dilate.”
Dilated means getting bigger.
Yeah, like despite all the grief and trauma and time, Bojack has never really allowed himself to process the fact that he killed her.
His eyes contracted
He does this a lot in the second interview
And you know what? He probably wouldn’t of gotten arrested if he just called 911.
I never realized how terrible bojacks actions were until I watched the second interview.
Because we thought they were just little misadventures on Bojack's way to redemption. They weren't.
@@carlycrays2831 that's a perfect way of putting it, I didn't think of that
Interestingly enough Bojack wanted the second interview because he got cocky, he was so close to possibly sweeping this all under the rug
It really took you that long? I knew he was a shitty person from day one.
Masterful writing by the creators
I love the detail that nobody noticed: despite holding mug in his hands, he is still making pretty agressive gestures
what if i told you it's possible to notice something about a tv show without telling youtube you noticed it
@@jwck7 lol that's why comments exist, fat boy
@@jwck7 git ratio'd, lol.
@@jwck7 well aren't you an intellectual. how's it feel having so much brain in that skull of yours
I noticed too!! I even thought he was gonna smash it if they have bring penny's situation
Anyone noticed that throughout the series, Bojack just "passively" let things happen? All so he can't be a fault 100%, right? But he is at fault because he refuses to take responsibility for all the harm he did to others.
That's how it happens in real life. One of the reasons I like this show.
Like with Penny. People are like, well, Penny was coming onto him!
But he's a grown man. He should never have let it go that far.
He is at fault. Stop making excuses for him. This is why this shit keeps happening. He never takes responsibility.
Bojack takes active actions in ruining the lives of those around him. He sabotaged Todd, he kissed Charlotte, tried to have sex with a minor, manipulates Mr. Peanutbutter, hurts Princess Carolyn, gets high with Sarah Lynn and then deliberately waits 17 minutes, in which could have saved her life, so he could save his own skin. BoJack needs to stop being pitied. This is why he is the way he is and will never change. Because terrible people like yourself make excuses for him and people like him, and never ever take accountability for their actions.
Oh! No, no, I wasn't making excuses for him. What I meant is that he makes excuses like "She wanted it" or "It's too late" or looking sad to make it seem like he had no control of any situation. But he did have power and refused to take responsibility for it. @@ahappilydrunkpuppy8961
when bojack had sex with sarah lynn it wasn't played off as a big deal, but I felt disgusted. We saw her as a child and I felt like it was a somewhat father daughter relationship, and I felt disgusted about it. I mean since he knew her as a child, seeing her grow up, it had somewhat a 'grooming' tone to it
i love you
Because it was.
Yeah, I agree. She was like a daughter to him and he was an adult when he met her. Its gross in my opinion
Agreed. A lot of people like to say “well she was 30 and they weren’t TECHNICALLY father and daughter” but I can’t see it that way. It honestly disgusted me when I first saw that scene the first time and couldn’t understand why it was being “glossed over.” That was one of the first severe hits to my respect for Bojack
@@tkb5726 yes definitly, but I am glad it was picked up again later
"Who told you all this stuff? Did Sharona tell you that? [...] Because Sharona was a drunk too! You can't trust a thing she says!"
Bojack just outed someone he knows, made peace with, and who also attends the same Alcoholic Anonymous group he goes to, as an alcoholic on TV. What's worse, it wasn't even Sharona who told Biscuits Braxby about Sarah Lynn's underage drinking on the Horsin' Around set.
I jus keep thinkin', there goes anotha person he hurt without thinkin' too hard about it jus to save face. Tha pattern didn't stop.
The fact that he’s so quick to throw people’s reputations or their lives under the bus proved to me that he never truly changed, and he deserved that comeuppance. Plus, it completely justifies the hostility of the AA meeting crowd in the next episode: he broke their rules and outed an anonymous alcoholic. And Bojack couldn't even figure that out himself, he was just so absorbed with self-pity. I'm surprised that Bojack was even allowed to come into the room, honestly.
He never changed
He caused Sharona to take the blame for Sarah Lynn taking the water bottle.
Seeing how he wanted this 2nd interview to make himself look even better, and seeing how fast he threw her under the bus really does cement how he's still kind've a shitty guy.
I've never felt so much rage towards a character. I rewatched this series from the beginning to the end with my mom and we both yelled " What is he *DOING* " when he wanted to go on the interview with Biscuits again and gloat. And then we found out that he waited almost 20 minutes and *THEN* confessed that he had sex with Sarah Lynn and when the scene ended we just sat in silence and looked at each other in shock over what just happened and how fast it happened.
IMO it doesn't make sense even for Bojack to do that. He can be narcissistic sure but that was just plain illogical in how obviously against his own self interests it was. Especially with PC and Diane warning him it just seemed out of character for him to be that dumb.
@@Saskaruto16 Not really out of character - Bojack is an egotistical person who, throughout the series, we see him wanting to be praised, to be in the limelight. After the amount of praise he got from the first interview, it makes perfect sense for him to want to experience that again and do a second one.
@@Saskaruto16 See, it’s just as he said in the 2nd interview many times.
He’s an addict. Not just to drugs and alcohol, but also to fame. After the first interview he had such a good connotation to his name in the limelight, that he wanted to do another interview to make himself look better.
Bojack should have quit while he was ahead. I personally was sickened when he said "I nailed that interview!"after the first one, where he was talking about how he could have railed against Sarah Lynn's mother or what have you. But Bojack wanted to be praised, to seem heroic and have publicity, which is why everything crumbled when the truth came out.
Kinda off topic but man, your mom must be cool af to watch the show with you
As the audience, we see everything, but in the Bojack Horseman universe, people only get scraps and crumbs of the full story.
For the most part, yes. But one thing we didn't see was that Bojack waited almost 20 minutes to call for an ambulance while Sarah Lynn was dying.
But I think that was a smart decision by the writers. That way, we became like the people in BH's universe, finding out about what he did through this interview. And our perception of him most likely changed in the same way as the people in BH's universe afterwards.
That's hollywood
My Soup Too cold *hollywoo(b)
Brian Nava
Definitely. My whole view of Bojack was permanently changed. I feel like the showrunner was worried about making Bojack too likeable, hence the meta commentary of Season 5. But this was exactly what we needed. An interview which reminds the audience just how badly Bojack has treated women in his entire life. It was harder to notice because his antics were played up for comedy, but with or without the veneer of humour, Bojack is a deeply problematic figure. Sure, he’s damaged in ways that he didn’t ask for, but those women didn’t ask to be used so callously by him. Sarah Lynn didn’t ask Bojack to ruin her life in all the ways that he did, and then finally allow her to die alone in the planetarium instead of saving her life.
So true. It reminds me of how we initially were introduced to 90s Bojack as a straight-and-arrow guy who would never drink.
Then in the last season, it's revealed that he started drinking vodka as a CHILD. He even had US fooled.
It’s really clever. After Sarah Lynn’s death, Bojack is just filled with grief. And we think we understand what it was: That he was the ones who gave her the drugs that caused her to OD and yeah while that’s really serious but we are sympathetic because we assumed he didn’t intend for that to happen.
But then we learn that he waited 17 minutes to call an ambulance that could’ve potentially saved her life. Not 2. Not 5. But *17* minutes. And those minutes were spent trying to save his skin and in the end someone paid for his selfishness with their life. And then or sympathy turned to anger and disgust. Just when we thought he couldn’t possibly get worse. He does.
and yet he claims he "loves" her but i guess he didn't lover her enough to save his own skin instead of helping her
like damn it changed a huge perspective on Bojack
@@y.9645 it is. A huge eye opener. I mean, if he’s willing to let the person who he claims isn’t like other people and who he loves more than anything, die, than can you imagine what he’d to the people close in his life (PC, Diane, Todd, Hollyhock)?
Yeah, I decided to rewatch the series and I just hated him the entire time. Especially after Sara Lynn died. I found it impossible to feel bad for him at all knowing what he did.
Im sorry but the way I see it is as the truth of life. He was incredibly high and probably didn’t process time as usual. Most of us like to think we would automatically do the right thing, but would we? Would we be so calm and call for help when most of us can’t even tell an SO why we are upset? Everyone is hating on bojack for doing a very human thing, freaking out. I’ve never done drugs, I once accidentally ate three cookies laced with weed (i didn’t know they were weed cookies, the person didn’t tell us) and I had a horrible time and could barely tell if I was home or in the stupid gone with the wind movie. I had no perception of time and based off that I can see why bojack probably didn’t know what to do. Once he starts talking about what happened it feels more like he’s just saying things to appease the viewers so they can have someone to judge. The awful truth is that most of us, no matter how good we think we are, would end up doing the same as bojack, freaking out and in the process of our friend dying probably too high to do anything helpful. Its why so many friends who do drugs with each other overdose and die, their sometimes to high to do anything.
@@monserrath270 most people don't die of OD just because their buddies were too freaked out or high to call an ambulance for nearly 20 minutes.
also, you're missing a point that he called his own phone from sarah lynn's meaning he was sensible enough to cover for himself in that situation, then he sat outside without even trying to do anything. he just cared more about himself than her.
It's interesting, ironic and kind of contradictive how in the first season, Bojack having sex with Sarah Lynn wasn't treated like a big deal and it was quickly and easily condoned like how other cartoon characters from other mature tv shows do awful things and it's quickly treated likes it's nothing, BUT in the last season Bojack having sex with sarah lynn was later randomly finally taken seriously and treated like one of the worst things Bojack has ever done, Why aren't all mature cartoons like that?
I like how the characters in this show actually have consequences for their actions
Yeah, same with that girl who woke up from that coma (can't remember her name) The first time I saw it, I kinda laughed due to how bizarre the situation was.
Then this scene came.
@@900flyingmuffins6 If that were true Todd would still be in jail
@@joshuabrant3487 to be fair Todd's the only real cartoon character here
There are female writers in bojack crew. That's the difference
These two interviews really show that even if he was a "changed" man, his ego never left. After the first interview that saved his skin and getting validation from the public. He goes back to being the egotistical Bojack and asks for a 2nd interview for even more validation, which doesn't go the way he expects. It really shows why Diane at the end of the series after Bojack says,"This is nice." And turns too look at her, she doesn't look back, because she knows that even the smallest attention she gives to Bojack will just make him go back to the person he tends to be, and she doesn't want to him to lose all the progress he made.
Jesus I thought Diane just ignored him cos she was sick of his shit. That puts it in perspective.
his addiction to stardom and attention led to his own downfall in the end
I love Diane and the way she dealt with Bojack's shit. I'm glad she cut ties with him in the end though, my girl doesn't deserve any of his toxicity.
This just makes me think, since Bojack never had validation Inside his family. He seeks validation & praise from strangers or others.
thats a rlly good observation ong
"Sarah Lynn wasn't like those other girls, I loved Sarah lynn!"
Cut to P.C.
Remember in a earlier season when Bojack told P.C. he loved her as much as he could love anyone?(Or something along those lines) Guess that was another lie
that's because at that moment he didn't think he could love anyone, so what he was meaning is that he didn't love her so much
@@RibzTechno that still fucking sucks for all parties
P.C. told that to Bojack, during the final moments of Sunk Cost And All That.
It’s a manipulation tactic he uses in a lot of situations. He says it about P.C., Sarah Lyn, Charlotte, and others.
He was lying about Sarah Lynn too. He didnt love her especially.
"Yes, and look! She's alive."
The shows ability to fit comedy in frighteningly serious moments is unmatched
Also the part where he was like “no it was mostly the heroin”
In my opinion in this scene Bojack didn’t go back to Bojack season 1, he became an even worst version of this specific Bojack. I wanted to throw up so hard hearing that.
@@BenDaGoat I dont really think Bojack is worse than before. Just think all the good he did this season, he stopped being an asshole to the people around him, he stopped drinking (until he reads hollyhocks letter), and he was was an inspiring college professor and everyone loved him. Sure the interview went terrible but that was only because of the SEASONS before season 6. Look at the damage that Bojack did before season 6, look at what Bojack did to Penny, Sarah Lynn, and Gina. This season was the best season he could ever be and it was just the events BEFORE season 6 that came biting him in the ass.
It's been half a year since you've posted this comment so maybe you've changed your mind about this particular thing but here goes anyway.
Change is hard. Growing out of your maladaptive behaviours and strategies isn't a linear process, specially if you've spent basically your entire life with them. Sometimes you slip back into them because they're easier or because you don't know how to behave in a particular manner, like BoJack in the second interview.
His behaviour in it is still reprehensible, but it doesn't mean he didn't change, it just means that he went back to what used to work for him. What matters after that point is wether he continues to try to change himself. And he did try.
I actually think he did simply regress back to season 1 Bojack, but it feels so much worse and more jarring because we not only had we grown to love him (no shame in admitting it, this show did a great job at making us sympathize with those that we *THINK* we understand), but also come to learn of details that we hadn't considered before.
That reveal of the 17 minutes he waited after Sarah Lynn's OD, the pattern in his experiences with young women... It makes me feel dirty for ever rooting for him. And true to classic season 1 Bojack, he throws everyone else under the bus while trying to justify or make light of his prior actions.
But it isn't season 1 anymore. We don't think of this show as yet another Family Guy or Simpsons rip off, we think of the realistic implications which suddenly makes everything feel so. much. worse.
@@NicoUnken everyone misses this episode's message which is media single-mindedly use whatever approach which is most beneficial to them and sensatiolize everything. There was no predatory pattern with women
Not really. He's still an asshole, but he's less of an asshole now. Remember all the good things he's done this season
"I didn't have sex with her until she was thirty!"
Oof, you can feel the final nail being hammered into that coffin.
I was rubbed the wrong way seeing someone say the interviewer set up Bojack to make him look bad. Like Bojack literally set himself up. The first interview wasn’t even sincere, it was to protect himself, but he was able save his image. He was in the safe zone yet he got so cocky about how good he looked, he had another one just to lavish in being the “changed inspiring hero”.
The interviewer wasn’t attacking him just to make him look bad for drama, she was addressing real things he’s done on a segment where he’s supposed to be admitting to his problems. Bojack’s response was getting hostile and throwing Sharona under the bus as well as hiding what really happened after Sarah Lynn wouldn’t respond to Bojack. Like the shitty things he’s done, getting full of himself, and always shifting the blame was his demise, not the interviewer...
The interviewer owed him nothing.
@@thatnikkakris2339 ofc the interviewer asks those questions for ratings, thats her job.
@@Sam-iy8qm The interviewer owed him everything. In the show, it's established her whole mode of operation is to give flattering, Jimmy Kimmel style interviews where she makes guests look good so other celebrities will go on her show. If she doesn't stick to this, she has no career. The only reason she decided to do it differently for once in her life is that two other reporters (whose subplot sucked) played semantics and made her feel bad about following the unwritten rules of her job. If I suddenly show up to work one day with a crummy attitude and criticize everything my boss does from then on, you can say I'm not violating the law or my contract, but they're still going to fire my ass at the first opportunity.
@@boefwellington562 Bojack isn’t her boss and she technically already gave him his due... doesn’t mean she has to ignore the new information she was given to not act on it. She did her job, period.
@@thatnikkakris2339 um... anybody could seem like the worst person in the world... wow. You have some skeletons in your closet buddy? Do you think its okay if you make the mistakes bojack made in your own life because "everybody does it"
Everyone makes mistakes but no, not every person would not have the track record Bojack has.
6:40 “She was 10, I didn’t have sex with her until she was 30!” That line was the exact moment Bojack dug his own grave down to hell, that was his absolute lowest to rock-bottom
That scene makes me ill and uncomfortable I cannot watch it 😢😢
1:28 I won't talk about my mistakes because I care about other people's privacy
6:09 ShArOnA wAs a DrUnK tOo yOu cAn'T tRuSt AnYtHiNg sHe SaYs
LMAOO
especially because there's a whole load of other facts doc champ revealed that nobody else would know, including sharona, it's even more fucked that he jumped to blame her.
@@user-ln2go4xp6d it's a testament to the fact that he doesn't listen, because as much of a piece of shit Champ is, he DID try to tell Bojack that he wasn't a *therapist*
Biscuits is such a great character. She’s worked with enough Hollywoo celebrities to see right through Bojack’s BS. That question of “do you enjoy having power over women?” was probably something she’s been waiting to say for years
What I didn't get was why she didn't take initiative but instead allowed Paige to bully her. Biscuits should've gone right for the throat in the first interview instead of letting that psycho pig force her hand when Paige clearly didn't care if Gina or Penny committed suicide over this.
From an EMT perspective, an extra 17 minutes could have saved her. We have something called the “Golden Hour” which means we need to get a patient to the hospital in one hour from first contact. There is also the “Platinum 10” which details the critical prehospital care that EMS does before transport.
Well shit. He really did kill her.
@@JustinCage56Yep by pure selfishness
Thank you for posting this, because there are still people saying “he didn’t kill her/she was probably already dead/we don’t know for sure if-“ Yes we do.
@@CrystalRose1111the fact that its debatable is so much better, it leaves bojack just enough wiggle room to pretend and even believe he did nothing wrong, but condemns him enough to feel guilty. That blend of juxtaposing emotions is whats so interesting about his character in a scene like this.
@@ness1278 Yeah but the show was desperately trying to convey to its audience that it wasn’t actually debatable. Like at all
It only seems debatable because BJ is the main character. People tend to root for the MC and give him the benefit of the doubt, even though he proves over and over that he doesn’t deserve it.
Saying "Sarah Lynn was like a daughter to me" solidified my opinion that he would have assaulted Penny
He fully intended on sleeping with her.
no he didn't when they got home he told to go to her room and he went to bed she came to him@@carlycrays2831
Yeah that was the moment I had to pause and really process what he said based on what happened with Penny, I really wanted to believe he wouldn’t have done anything and that it was a big misunderstanding, hell I genuinely blacked out the sex with Sarah Lynn part because of how uncomfortable it made me, but this interview legit just ruined any good will I had for Bojack
I kept thinking that he really did do a good job in that 1st interview, it was calculated but he said all the right thing. It was really believable
Then it went to his head and went for a second interview
My Soup Too cold when He told PC he was gonna do it I paused the video and left the Netflix app to prepare myself mentally because I knew this crap would happen
Idk. He sorta made it about him.
That's because it's meant to replicate a realistic controversy pr interview actors and celebrities do all the time.
@@Hayden_Cat That was my exact reaction. The second he said that I knew it would go wrong, but I also didn't expect it to go THAT wrong. Those 17 minutes...
Wanda
Kelsey
Penny
Gina
Imagine what they felt when they saw the first interview
Imagine what they felt when they saw the second interview
I know:
First interview: 😡👿
Second interview: 🤩👏🏻
Hollyhock.
I doubt Gina and Penny even watched it. It would probably trigger their PTSD really badly to see Bojack trying to justify his actions on TV.
@@mobydick3769 Given that Gina ended up getting that role in Kelsey’s film, I’m convinced that she did watch the interviews. She finally got closure to her own suppressed trauma from being strangled. Her oppressor was punished in every sense of the word.
@@JimmySteller Wasn't Courtney the one who got the role?
So Sharona turns on the TV and finds out that BoJack:
A. Outed her as a (former) alcoholic
B. Slept with Sarah Lynn - and Sharona was aware of Sarah Lynn’s stepdad
C. Threw her under the bus again for the vodka.
I’m sorry, why do people forgive BoJack again?
Main character syndrome the need to defend the supposed protagonist or atagonist as your own hero they don’t treat him like he’s his own person which he isn’t he’s a drawing that simulated those type of people and is trying to teach people it’s ok to be happy from terrible actions and not just ignore them but appreciate what they taught you and become that better person for your own happiness this isn’t anime where the main character gets what he wants it’s just that the story needs you to understand if we weren’t following bojack perspective and he was just some major side character we would not be happy with what he’s doing that would be called the worst but brilliant realistic character so we’re not defending him just ourselves in a way
TLDR:he’s basically chase from total drama but older
(Also who’s Sharona again it’s been 2 years since I saw this show)
@@ThiccFurryBoi34 she was a hairdresser on Horsin’ Around who worked with BoJack and Sarah Lynn.
When Sarah Lynn got drunk on set, BoJack framed Sharona and let her take the fall.
I love this show for so many reasons, but mainly because it made me realize how relentlessly sympathetic and naive I am as a person: even after all of this, I STILL felt bad for BoJack and I was STILL rooting for him, it made me reevaluate the way I see and treat others who are disrespectful of my own mental health and I appreciate it so much
That's to much man
That’s too much man
same here
I wouldnt call that naive, I think it shows that you have a good heart
@Lucifer I definitly agree! I just said that I dont think the person who commented this is naive because they still feel bad for bojack and want to help him. I think its very important that this world has people who still welcome others with open arms, even after all the bad stuff they have done. Its important to look out for your own health, but its brave to put others first even when you're on a sinking ship yourself. Man, the empaths of this world deserve more love, yet what most of them get is people who use them for their best quality.
(edited bc of grammar mistakes, its not my motherlanguage)
It really is astounding just how self-serving the first interview is, and how satisfying the second interview is by comparison. Also, it's difficult to express just how long 17 minutes is. It doesn't _seem_ like a long time, but for real, time it and just....sit there. It feels like an eternity. Now realize that during an overdose, every second matters.
Every. Second. Matters.
I'm a junkie and if she wasn't dead after 5 minuts means it wasn't cut with fentanyl so he could easily saved her, even if she shoot it some first aid and caffine (if he could manege to wake her up enough do she could drink) would do the trick. He could just call paramedics they would gave her some narcan and she would be fine.
Did anyone else have a cringe attack when they said “Every. Second. Matters.”
@Leolimitedition go back to studying geography jimmy
@@coolsodapop12 go back to studying on how not to be a damn nuisance wherever you are
@@leolimitedition no we didn’t cringe at all
"Did you take a high school girl to her prom?"
"Did you help a teen mom sneak out of rehab and take her to a high school party?"
I love how Biscuits gets some things wrong that make Bojack seem like a worse person and some things wrong that seriously downplay his actions. It makes the interview seem so real.
It really does. And it sucks that nobody will probably know the full extent of it. Like yeah taking a high school girl to prom is weird, even if it was a “family friend” (which is debatable since he technically met them two months prior) but nobody besides Pete, Maddie, and Penny (Hollyhock too) would know that Bojack provided them with alcohol and one of the kids almost died from alcohol poisoning. Before manipulating the situation to make everyone think that he wasn’t there and didn’t know what happened. Which is alarming when you realize that’s pretty much what he did with Sarah Lynn and her overdose… goodness.
I mean he technically did help her sneak out, with the bedsheet trick. Like so many other things, it was played for laughs at the time but...
@@Steelburgh
But he also spends the entire episode trying to bring her back
@@mikemorro140 yeah after given her tips how to escape rehab
@@xblade149
He didn't think she actually would
I've never been so angry at a character I've grown invested in - that 17 minute reveal and the 'power over women' connections made me hate BoJack more than any of the individual scenes we'd been privy to up to now. I didn't feel like he really took any of the responsibility for his actions I wanted him to by the end of the show - and I guess that's mostly like real life.
Michael Haynes
He spent
14 Months in a Supermax Prison
He should’ve died at the end of the “View from halfway down” episode, at least that’s what I wanted, all of his life he found a way to make himself and all of the people around him suffer, he isn’t going to change and going to prison isn’t going to change him, he honestly should’ve just died and at least get a bittersweet ending, people hated him but now that he’s gone they would’ve missed him.
@@stungun0 That's not the point of the show. Death is the easy way out, the worst and fair punishment for bojack is living with the consequences of his acts and ending up alone.
There's not good and evil, bojack is not a bad person. He's not good either. None of us are. It's even said specifically by Diane I think. You can mean well in the inside like bojack and that's why we empathize with him, but you're defined by your actions and that's why we hate him all the same. The point of the show is that you're not good nor evil, but you can be so broken that you're bad for people around you no matter what you feel. It's not bojack's fault to be this toxic because no one's really at fault of anything in life. You get the hand you're dealt with and if that means you're bad for everyone else they'll push you out of their life and punish you. All you can do is keep moving forward, accept your cards and try to be better with them. Which is what bojack ultimately do.
TL:DR
He didn't mean anything bad he did, which is why we can't hold him accountable for it, but in real life that doesn't mean (rightfully) he can nor will be forgiven. Realizing that is the goal of bojack' s life which he achieves at the end. "Sometimes life is shit and you keep living".
PD: What I love about the show is how it breaks with all the romanticism rules we have for life that don't apply in reality about justice, honesty, guilt, love, death and happiness.
Jwanma I know that is not the point of the show, but I see a bit of BoJack in me, I can relate to him more than any of the other characters
And I’ve always thought that death is the easy way out, and why not take the easy way out? Maybe BoJack had to face what he did but he really wasn’t obligated, he could’ve just died and be done with it
I wish one day with death, to finally rest eternally and be in peace, I don’t know how can someone like Bojack keep on living, I would’ve given up decades ago
@@stungun0 That's when the line "oh no Bojack, there's no other side, this is it" plays its role. There is no peace in death, there's nothing. Peace is a way of happiness and you can only be happy while you live. I think ultimately bojack finds peace accepting consequences which will lead to him dying when he has to die without regretting not killing himself earlier in life.
The cut to Princess Carolyn when Bojack says “Sarah Lynn wasn’t like those other girls” is brilliant
What I love about this scene is how we KNOW Bojack isn’t intentionally trying to abuse power in his relationships, but seeing it all laid out bare shows us how he has undeniably horrible things and he has no excuses for his actions.
Thats why the writing on this show is so amazing. Bojack isn't a good guy by any means, but seeing things from his point of view does make it seem like he's just a hapless unfortunate dude. But when you put it all in perspective the power he abuses is absolutely clear
@@k_schreibzExactly. I think that’s part of how it plays into the media satire of the show, where you take for instance, the New Mexico situation
As viewers, we understand that Bojack had a sort of existential crisis and moved to New Mexico to live with Charlotte. He was battling an unrequited love for Charlotte, not because of really who she is, but because she represents the literal ‘Escape from LA’. Bojack grows to love the family, and grows connected to Penny because she’s the closest thing to the young Charlotte, but kisses Charlotte and is told to leave. He turns down Penny once, and then accepts a second time and is kicked out of the house. That’s what we see inside Bojack’s mindset.
However, from the outside looking in, just at the bare facts, Bojack moved into an old family friends house, grew uncomfortably close with his friends teenage daughter and basically groomed her into sex. You can justify something all you want, but it will look a certain way to the rest of the world
i love that we can see exactly why bojack would think he was innocent - he didn't have this master plan about how he was going to abuse women, he just did what he felt like in the moment. yet from a viewers perspective you can tell exactly what attracts bojack to these power dynamics - people who looked up to him or people he could help must've really boosted his ego when he hates himself, and he told himself it was a fair trade because they got to be with the person they idolised despite that being the problem. they misunderstood him and he took advantage of that misunderstanding for an ego boost and a 'connection' with someone who's nice to him.
He is still an abuser, intenionally or not
The thing is we see how miserably bad Bojack's self-loathing is in earlier episodes. His opinion of himself is so low he might genuinely not comprehend how he possibly COULD have power over anyone.
Of course he does and all that combined with his innate selfishness and bitterness lead to the worst version of himself.
"The worst part is she doesnt even care, it's just a ratings grab for her." You see, the first interview, sure. After Paige Sinclair talked to her, you can tell Biscuits was offended as a woman. I'm lowkey surprised she didn't bring up the Gina situation
I'm not, actually. If Gina didn't want to expose him, then it wasn't Biscuit's place to victimize her all over again. That's something for the victim to decide.
@@narlabegins
Fair points my good sir
Nyarlath Begins it's been a month since you mentioned this but I'm glad biscuits didn't drag Gina back into all this- I'm glad she got her movie roll, and what bojack did can be between her and her therapist.
Biscuits did the interview with Gina and Bojack before. Maybe after all the new information about Bojack surfaced, she might have realised herself that it was a lie too.
@@cartoonlover985 that's what I'm saying, I'm surprised she didn't reference the first interview because at this point she knows Bojack is all bs. But like somebody pointed out she likely didn't do that for Gina's sake since she just wanted the whole ordeal over
I remember when Bojack said he wanted to do a second interview acting all cocky I nearly yelled 'NO' to my TV screen, I knew he was being way too greedy and desperate for positive attention.
I know right!!! It was so dumb, he didn’t need approval of everyone he needed to actually better himself.
biggest bruh moment
I think it is the same wanting power over people that drove him to do the second interview.
@@bluesolace9052 In the end, that’s Bojack for ya.
So many times this show made me shout “No”! Lol.
“And you don’t think you have power over women?” There is something about that line that felt like it hit me like ton of bricks after Biscuit pointed out so many of the things that Bojack did that make it as clear as day. The fact that Bojack more or less walk into this because he was getting high off of the admiration he was getting from the first interview only added to it. God I love this show
@MasteroMatter true, Bojack have been crappy to the men in his life but it never been to the same extent as it had been to Sarah Lynn, or his girlfriend who he strangled on camera. He was also about to have sex with an minor when he got rejected by her mother. During the interview he immediately threw Sharon under the bus (who he got fired from her job to save himself all those years ago) and didn’t even consider it being Doctor. I do think that some of what the interviewer did was performative but at the same time, she did hold up a mirror to Bojack toxic behavior by pointing out his relationships with women in particular
@@daryno9048 what he ruined herbs career and ruined todd chance at stardom those are big
Old boy just can’t let a thing go. He had a great (if slightly disingenuous) first interview, but the dopamine hit from the burst of public praise went to his head, he did the second interview despite PC suggesting not to and he subsequently crashes and burns. Bojack may be trying to be better but his ego and weak coping mechanisms do him no favors. He’s a person who needs a solid amount of structure to really thrive. If the only validation he knows is from a cheering audience, he’s doomed to always be in pursuit of that and will never feel satisfied. I hope that after the ending, he does some serious therapy and soul searching to redirect his own path to happiness in a more healthy way.
You're right. In the final episode after PC tells him that Horny Unicorn did well and he may get offers after he's out of prison, you can see that he gets this sort of rush talking about trying to balance out his time volunteering at the prison with taking up those acting job offers.
PC gets this worried look on her face, like if she regrets telling him about those offers. I think she knows that he could easily fall back into his old ways if he goes down that road again.
The best thing for Bojack is to just stay away from the spotlight. He needs to retire from acting. He was happiest when he was working at the college. His most dangerous characteristic is not his alcoholism but, like you said, his own ego and narcissism.
Brian Nava Yep, that’s exactly it. I do sympathize with Bojack in that even from a very early age (and a very early episode) with Downer Ending (S1, E11), his mother Beatrice taught him that he could get conditional love by performing the Lollipop Song at her parties. So the only way that he’s known to get conditional love has been through that: performing, putting on a good show, doing what he’s told.
I think the only way he’s ever going to feel self actualize or actually like himself is just by becoming a spectator again as opposed to a performer. Which, like you said, has a lot to do with him being a teacher or at the very least just not being involved with in the Hollywoob system. He definitely can’t patch things up with Charlotte or Hollyhock, but I think him taking himself out of any kind of public spotlight will be the best possible thing for him.
I’m hoping that he will eventually end up with a similar trajectory like Diane. She got involved with someone that deeply cared about her and genuinely always wanted the best for her, she was able to come to terms with her depression and trusted that things would turn out for the best with Guy and put the work into it.
@@briannava3824 I don't think he would be wrong again if he ended up in the spotlight again. If he made a mistake again, he would be hated by everyone again, and if it happened a second time, then death would be really his only way out this time.
People don’t seem to understand how influential and important childhood is and if you’ve seen bojacks there was no structure his parents did everything in their *power* to demolish any semblance of structure.
I feel like I’m the only sane person in this comment section who isn’t a single minded sheep.
Right? He really needs that praise because he never felt it as a kid and would try so hard to perform so he could finally get some positive attention. He’s even terrified that his efforts won’t be seen (always asking if people get his jokes).
“I’d die for a Pepsi” lmao underrated joke in a serious moment
And a topical jab at Pepsi's marketing department for that horrendous Kylie Jenner ad campaign. Incredibly tone deaf, even by corporate standards.
"So I can't be with any women I might have power over , who does that leave me with?" Big yikes....
Well it’s a big yikes but is also kind of funny and some sort ironic, bojack was abused by his mom , and scared of the tv producer of horsin around. But honestly I still hate bojack for what he did to Sarah Lynn
Welp.... yeah...
It’s a super deflecting way of saying deep down that he does feel this way. He does feel that he has power over women or at least wants relationships that he can be the one in control. It also offers the possibility that he wants said power over women because of his domineering mother. this interview is a fascinating look into Bojack psyche
I see what you're saying but I dont think its entirely Bojack that just "held power over them" at some point, they gave up their power when they willingly indulged in reckless behavior with him.
@@brandynlovett4054 it could be that with some people, like diane for example, but bojack also chooses to be in relationships with women who he naturally has some kind of power over, like dating a girl who had just woken up from a coma, etc.and it may not even be something he realizes, or something he means to do, but the way he leads relationships puts him in this pattern. i do agree it could be them giving up power, but it also could just be a weird subconcious things bojack does-- i think it can go both ways which is why this scene is so hard
That panicked "No!" When Biscuits asks Bojack if he ever wondered if Sarah Lynn might have survived if he had called for help sooner. It sounds like equal parts guilt and trauma, equal parts "no, don't make me relive that night" and "no, I can't bear the blame for her death." Like he had never even thought about it that way before this.
He had thought about it, he just kept telling himself that nothing he could have done would save her
@@carlycrays2831 I doubt that "no" meant "There was nothing I could do," though. There was too much panic in it.
@@SaltpeterTaffywhat I think he means is, he tried to convince himself that there was nothing he could do.
@@kylemorello4787 I know. I just disagree with that assessment.
6:47 interesting how he says here that they were both _so_ drunk and high, yet when you rewatch that scene way back in episode 3, BoJack literally says “we’re both a _little_ drunk” right before it happens. So he 100% knew what he was doing back then, and it didn’t even register as a bad thing because he was just so used to indulging himself whenever he could.
Well, he is also a huge horse and an addict with a strong tolerance. Sarah Lynn hadn't had any drugs or alcohol in months and was a fairly petite human woman. There was simply no way she could keep up that bender with him.
@@carlycrays2831 that was a different bender, the one I’m talking about happened before she went sober for a time and they were _both_ slightly intoxicated. Ik you’re probably joking, but yeah
@@ultraviolet119 True. But still, those benders were dangerous
@@carlycrays2831 no shit
I always saw it as him downplaying just how drunk they were in the moment
All the details and dialogue make the scene so fucking good I swear to God. The Nervous gulp in the audio right at the end, The cut to Princess Caroline when he talks about Sarah Lynn being the only girl he loved in any way, this is such a solidly written scene
Oof the 2nd interview was a mental chess match. Biscuits had Bojack on the rails. Completely powerless. Once he blamed Sharona, it was a wrap. Bojack was cooked. The entire scene left my skin crawling after that assessment.
Hey Alexa, play “Cornered” from Ace Attorney
@@ClaireSamuelsVA I love it when people make Ace Attorney references at the sight of my profile pic lol. Carry on!
@@RickyHadou Haha, couldn’t resist! Especially given the context of your comment and how Biscuits “cornered” Bojack so many times
What I'm mad about is that Biscuits didn't go for the throat on the first interview. She let Paige - a self-centered sociopath - bully her into doing the second interview. That cheapened the victory because Paige didn't even care about Bojack's victims - she STALKED Penny from the diner she worked at to Charlotte's house just to make her relive what she went through.
“Sarah Lynn wasn’t like those other girls” the camera cuts to Princess Carolyn. Apparently to Bojack, PC was just one of those other girls
About halfway through the 2nd interview I actually had to stop watching for a few days. Seeing Bojack backslide from 6 seasons worth of character development in the span of 5 minutes made me feel physically sick.
that...isn't the lesson you should be taking from the show. you can absolutely change, and should if you are toxic to yourself and others. the problem with bojack wasn't that he didn't change, it was that he didn't recognise the parts of himself that he should change e.g. he gets sober, but doesn't confront why he was an alcoholic in the first place, resulting in an easy fall from the wagon.
@@s.g.7572 I sincerely believe change is possible in anyone if they want to. But they really have to want it and, as you said, recognise what has to be changed. Bojack had the potential to change, he had the resources and the friends help him change and he half assed it and stopped the second he felt just a little better about himself
Change isn’t a one stop shop and you’re done, you keep at it every day and be thankful you’re just a little bit better than you were the day before
I mean they slowly reveal it in the middle of season 6. When the reporters are contacting him, his first thought is how to protect his own image. We never actually see him "feel bad" about leaving Sarah Lynn in the planetarium. It's all about his image.
17 minutes...that’s a really long fucking time to treat some suffering an overdose. 17 minutes I had to rewatch this clip to fully Realize the gravity of the situation. Sarah Lynn was a child at least to bojack she was mentally a teenager or a young adult who still looked up to bojack in the end and it took him 17 minutes.
Bojack did change for the better, but he refused to be held accountable, that was his issue. He changed but he did not want to be punished for being a terrible person, and this scene made everyone in Biscuit's audience realize who he was in the past - because he needed to face consequences for ruining so many people's lives
im shocked very few people are talking about how inappropriate his reaction was after the first interview. seeing him boastful and contempt with himself really shows how stunted his emotional growth is and how everything seemed like one big stunt. he never really TRULY looked at how shitty of a person he was and how that interview wasn't supposed to wrap a nice, sweet bow on his actions. then, to go ahead with a part 2 and try toppling his "performance" from the first interview, while one of his best friends (who's also one of his biggest enablers) says no to the idea, just to be met with the harsh reality that he really is a pos person was sickening, but deserved. bojack had this coming from the beginning and even though it was painful to sit through and watch, it was a full circle moment to see him come to terms with who he really was- a shitty person that will do anything and everything he can to maintain a certain image, no matter who or what comes in his way.
I'm not a therapist! I'm a therapy horse. A subtle but important legal distinction
Good on Biscuits for not backing down when Bojack tries to change the topic or speak over her, she knows what she came to do and she's showing Bojack that he's not in control anymore
"you're trying to paint this picture, you're making it out like I'm a bad guy, and I'm not!"
B R U H
I winced when he threw Sharona under the bus when they literally just rekindled and he even apologized to her. That whole apology and taking accountability went right out the window
I think a lot of people miss the point of the 17 minutes revel. It wasn’t that bojack just let her die he did try to save her but he made sure to save himself first. This revel doesn’t retcon anything bojack has always been a selfish person and something like this isn’t ooc for him to do at all. If anything the revel made his extreme guilt and regret about the situation even more understandable
What really gets me is that he could've saved Sara Lynn's life, I got so sad after her death and Bojack did the absolute opposite of trying to help her.
I think the writers wanted to show that you can't just simply kill the protagonist as a consequence of his poor life decisions, Bojack had to pay for what he's done and live with that. I still think the death ending would be better, like Heisenberg in Breaking Bad, but I understand why they ended the show the way it did.
This ending is better by far. Death is too easy. Living for the consequences is the best form of punishment.
Life is a bitch and then you keep living.
@@righthandstep5 still it could have be better. if anything bojack kinda felt at peace in prison and even he himself thought to prefer staying there because going out was too scary.
@@ianr.navahuber2195 to each their own. I like that he'll get out and live with Mr PB for now. Force him to make friends.
@@righthandstep5 I liked the idea of him surviving bit not that much he apparently enjoying Prison (Even if it is implied (according to dime theories) he had an easy Time in Prison thanks the favour he gained from The mexican cartel from The very First episode (Even If Bojack doesn't know it).
I kinda thought Bojack would get in Prison all the ways he hurt people but magnified. Like Say, he nearly killed his Girlfriend, that's one of the things he gets in Prison. All the way up to the point he get molested and gets paralyzed from The Hip to the legs And Maybe then have him try to commit suicide but THEN we have him fail and he now has to live paralyzed.
It would be a Nice contrast to how Bojack's Idol, secretariat, when unable to run, killed himself but Bojack (now unable To Even walk) actually decides to continúe living (some showing of subtle character development of him managing to do what Secretariat Couldn't Even if Bojack doesn't notice)
I have so many thoughts about season 6 but basically
even if bojack changed/is trying to change, people have every right to not forgive him. everything he did was just awful and people have a right to draw a line somewhere.
We can be like Herb. Acknowledged he said he was sorry, but we don't have to forgive him.
@@rosenrot234 _Exactly._
One of the worst things he did to a woman doesn't even get mentioned and Biscuit played a role in that, Bojack is a giant horse man who overpowered and choked out a tiny human woman and the world just acted like it didn't happen but narratively that's actually a good move. The writers didn't go for the lame extreme most media always goes for where an "abuser" is depicted as a borderline satire eg. an abusive parent/husband is a wife-beater wearing slurring drunk who only communicates with his potato sack wearing kids and meek wife by hitting them. That trope is a plague that haunts every person who has ever suffered psychological abuse when they try to tell their story, an abuser comes in many shapes and forms where they look perfectly normal on the outside until you really look at their behavior and the writing team makes an effort to show that with Bojack and his parents behaviour, PC's mother and Dianes parents.
The kids in question had a home, clothes on their back and food so to the person who believes in bare minimum parenting that's a win. The parents are good, end of discussion right?
And Bojack's correct in saying he didn't force himself on any of the consenting age women he had sex with so regardless of his age and power it's all ok right?
The one time Bojack used his physical strength to hurt a woman doesn't get attention here because it's too obvious and the writing team deserves every accolade they receive!
To be fair Gina didn’t want it brought up because she didn’t want her career ending with her being known as Bojack abuse victim
@@TheFPSKingsGaming Ironically enough i wouldn't be surprised she tried to reveal that once bojack's story with women was revelaed if only for other costars to understand why she can be difficult to deal with. while gaining sympathy points
@@ianr.navahuber2195 she didn’t want sympathy points. She hated Bojack and hated what happened and if she could she would forget it ever happened. It’s probs the same reason as penny she didn’t speak ip
@@ianr.navahuber2195, most victims don’t speak up they stay silent
I think the trope of the wifebeater or the stereotypical abuser exists because those are the people who get caught. Those people who make it so obvious it is undeniable to those around them that they are an abusive POS.
this show is so good it's like the opposite of rick and morty. shitty behavior isn't okay and saying sorry is not your redemption arc, no matter how cool or smart you think you are.
That's why it's so tragic that it ended so soon. People will forget it's lessons in another year.
@@fighterck6241 people will *never* forget. This show sticks with you
@@fighterck6241 I'm definitely not forgetting this show
@@thepredman9lol266 it’s not that they will never forget the show. It’s that they’ll forget the lessons within the show and keep going with their awful behaviour.
There was never a redemption arc for Rick. He is a tortured soul and it seems like as seasons go by Morty is starting to split off from Rick and try to undue the damage he is causing. Rick is losing friends and family kind of in a similar way Bojacks friends just kind of distanced himself from him. Sure Rick atm has had little to no consequences for his actions, but bojack didn't TRULY pay for his crimes till later seasons. He has had some messed up moments but it all didnt collapse and come together till later seasons. Before it was just individual moments. Clearly atm they are building up for the pay off against Rick and I'm not even really watching the show.
But the shows are so vastly different its an odd comparison to make. Bojack is more grounded and is supposed to fuck with you mentally. It's supposed to make you think and has commentary on lots of different aspects of life. It has its comedy but it's far more serious.
Im happy Biscuits gave it to him and im happier that Bojack finally acknowledged what I wanted him to acknowledge the whole time; that he IS that guy. Hes always going to be that guy. Changing doesn't erase the pain you caused other people and it doesn't absolve you of consequences. Bojack is always going to be the same person who let Sarah Lynn die, who tried to molest Penny, ruined Todds rock opera, Choked his costar, etc. Im not saying that change isnt possible, im saying that changing the person does not change the situation. Its like Bryce Walker from 13RW, he raped, and hes always going to be that guy who raped girls, but he did try to change himself for the better and it was sort of working until he was killed.
My point is, both characters had to stop saying "im not that guy anymore" and start saying "yes, im that guy, but im trying to do better"
assyrianprincess motive definitely does matter though. Bojack didn’t prey on girls who were vulnerable or wanted to specifically be with people who he had power over. As bojack says. Most people aren’t schemers. He simply accepted whatever love or attention a woman or any person would give him. Obviously it is morally wrong what happened with Penny and what he almost did. But he wasn’t praying on her or “grooming” her. He never schemed to “have power over women”. Also I thought it was quite sexist (towards women) to assume that every single relationship bojack was in he had power over every woman.
@@evelyn9273 I agree strongly I dont like it when media paints a picture of us not having sexual power, woman have alot of power if they like and own their bodies , it can be shifted and has been shifted, just becuase you have sex with a guy doesnt make him more powerful then you I was confused by that as well.
The thing about Bojack is that he is so well written that you emphatize with him, as himself, I didn't even realized how awful everything he did was until this scene, because you understand him so much you kinda justify him without realizing it. This is the moment the writters tell you that Bojack is not a good person and should not be justified, from this moment I hoped he didn't had a good ending because he didn't deserved it. I love your perspective on how "that guy" is always going to be "that guy" and even if he gets better he can never change what he did. Bojack is the incarnation of that, he didn't deserved a happy ending, but he did deserved the opportunity to make things right and I love the ending because of that.
Lucy Luna I agree to an extent, but motive does matter
@@lucyluna9131 I think the scary part about this show is that, you've came all this way to learn about Bojack, and you eventually started nesting yourself into him. Even with all the bad things, we put our own experiences into how he feels after his own. Now, he is being exposed for it all... Right in front of him, and it's true what Diane said; If you clump every bad thing someone has done, it makes them look like a terrible person. But that's the thing, it's not excusable. None of it is. Say what you will about having to have a "better outlook" in life. This scene completely tears down that logic, because really nothing can justify it.
I don't want to spread a bad message and say that you are a fuck up and deserve to die. The only thing that can justify your bad actions, is if others forgive you on it, in whatever extent. Because bad things come in different sizes. But what's even scarier here is that, what if we do something beyond what is justifiable here, like Bojack? We hold on to feeling bad for him, as well as not wanting to relate to Bojack, because we all feel like if some skeletons came out of our own closets, we'd all be held accountable for the bad actions we ourselves committed. And we would face the same humiliation, guilt and hatred from others, probably all by ourselves.
And that's where the argument here lies with others; does Bojack deserve anything he gets slung at? Does he deserve a happy ending? Does he deserve closure? I feel like the more you relate to Bojack, the more you fall in favor for him. The more you don't, the more you hate him. Which is also ironic, because this show pretty much taught us that, no one really is a good guy. None of us are perfect Angels.
So now what? Well, personally, I believe the writers created this paradox on purpose. Because what the final season taught me was, it's not always about what you did, and how you affect others, but how no matter what, you can't change what you did in the past at any moment, but you can change what you do in the future to prevent other misfortunes, burdens, and further damage to yourself and others.
That's just my intake of it, at least.
the transition was so seamless i didnt even notice
Yeah, I watched this before I finished the series and was really confused
“I’m not sure it would be fair to the other people affected by those mistakes all who I’ve apologized to in private.” Was such a good cop out for that question.
New detail I noticed: “So I can’t be with any woman I MIGHT have power over? Who does that leave me with?” He may not know it, but he’s admitting that he views himself as having power over EVERY WOMAN HE KNOWS. Jesus Christ, Bojack.
I mean, he does. That's the scariest thing, he does hold more power than the vast majority of women. There are women who have more money and influence than he does, but he isn't dating those woman and even if he did, he is still a very strong adult horse who could more than likely physically overpower them if he wanted.
“You dated her for 7 years” “yes and look! She’s alive!” 😂 like that’s the bar.
Quite the achievement 💀
If you feel more sympathy for Bojack than for all his victims you're missing the point. You don't and shouldn't have to side with him just because he's the MC and you know his good side.
I feel bad for both.
I knew it was truly the start of something awful when he ruined Todd’s rock opera for his own selfish reasons
Yeah, really. I honestly don't feel sympathy for BoJack at this point. Much like the episodes that explore Beatrice's childhood, I do pity BoJack in a way. And I hope he stops hurting other people, mostly for their sake. But I don't really sympathize with him after everything he's done.
I don't keep count of my amount of sympathy because I'm not a psychopath. I sympathize with both parties, I don't need to make a contest out of it.
You can feel sympathy for both because in the end they're all coming from fucked up situations. I'd like to think that maybe if they had better lots, they'd be better people
It really kills me to say this, but that reveal to me about the 17 minutes in between. It wasn't shocking to me. I felt like I knew already that's what he did. People covering their own asses even if someone dies. And so I'm left with, did I just not make a big deal out of that because I want a bad man to still be forgiven? Or did I not care because the friends and role models have done things worse, and I'm ok with them to get away with it
Both? Probably both.
I think we took it for granted that Bojack would do the right thing.
"did I just not make a big deal out of that because I want a bad man to still be forgiven?" I think there are a ton of people who watched the showed and whitewashed a lot of the bad things Bojack Horseman did. In their minds, he's just "vulnerable." There are even people in this comment section still defending him.
I assumed he played dumb with cops telling them "we were hanging out doing a little drinking, I didn't know she was doing H behind my back. "
I thought that's how he covered his ass I'm ok with that.. Kind of.
If we doin drugs and I OD u can play stupid, but help me doe...
Omg I feel this so much
………you bojack fans are………….something…….
i was happy before this ep because i actually thought he was changing. after the first interview he got carried away with the people thanking him because he "helped" them but really it was also out of selfishness because he felt good getting those praises again. he immediately forgot that it was about sarah lynn in the first place. i think he truly did deserve this and honestly I'm glad pc dipped out this time too. but despite all this, ironically it doesn't ruin bojack's character and instead just makes the writing more impressive
The minute Bojack requested a second interview, I knew he was finished. As sad as it was, there's was only one way it could've all ended.
The 17 minutes thing is what made me realize i need to get my shit together so i dont end up like bojack- i haven't had problems with substance abuse and I don't treat people badly like he did, but I was still all over the place and this episode made me realise how much impact my mistakes could have on other people and I needed to take accountability for when I had messed up and stop blaming something my mom said to me when i was 5 or some chemical imbalance or other people around me for the decisions i made by myself.
Its been a year since your comment. Hope you did something about it.
I feel so bad for Princess Caroline in this moment cuz the dots in her mind are finally connecting and she’s realizing how she stood by the wrong person for so many years.
It's crazy how the 17 minutes was dropped on the audience and it was an immediate perspective shift.
Only BoJack Horseman can have a scene of dialogue between a Horse and a Chinchilla be more realistic than what real people can say and do... You know, if this show was entirely real people, maybe it would cross the line of "Hitting way too hard'
honestly i feel like this show would feel way more insane than it already is if everyone was a human
Making the characters animals also has a similar effect to hiding the Onceler’s face: the idea that “this guy could be anyone.”
"Did you take a high school girl to her prom?"
"Did you help a teen mom sneak out of rehab and take her to a high school party?"
What I like here is that, in both of these cases, Biscuits doesn't have the full story. In one of these cases, it makes Bojack look like a perv, and in the other one, if she did know the full story, it would absolutely prove that he is.
6:25 PC's reaction really makes Bojack's 'i do love you by the way. as much as im capable of loving anyone, which is never enough.' hit different. she realizes he loved sarah lynn the most, more than he loved her, more than he loved all the other women he's abused, and yet he still didn't love her enough to save her life. so then how much did he ever truly love her? 25 years she wasted loving him..
I really enjoyed the parallels of PC being right about not taking the second interview and her instinct about leaving the Mitch's Life script as it was. Bojack got tripped by his own ego and lack of trust in PC both times, and it led to huge crashes in his life.
What makes the Sarah Lynn situation more tragic is California has a Good Samaritan Law, so Bojack could of called for help without the fear of legal repercussions.
It was all about the PR with him..
"And look, She's alive."
I'll take the wrong things to say for $800
They warned him about doing this interview,
His ego just couldn’t keep him from doing it
"So I can't be with any woman I have power over? Who does that leave me with?"
Bruh ain't no way he thought this was a good rebuttal. his mouth be movin' faster than his brain.
That's why this show is so good: the main character is wrong most of the time, he is a awful person. We have just to find out why he's such a douche, And at the end of the show we know everything of bojack: who are his parents, How was his childhood, How was his career, who are his friends, girlfriends, colleagues, everything and we discover that he's a way more complex character than many others we've seen. At the end he got punished for his mistakes and he deserves it, but we all feel sorry in a way.
There are plenty of shows with the main character as the bad guy
Bojack did play a big part of how Sarah Lynn's life played out and ultimately ended, but he was not the only one.
Her abusive parents were also to blame, and the even profited from her death.
That's the one thing I hated, that Bojack had to pay Sarah Lynn's parents of all people. I'm not mad he had to give up that money, but I am mad that they're the ones who got the money. Especially since they more than likely already took all of her assets when she died
The thing is, her parents may have greatly, greatly contributed to her addiction, but he parents weren't the ones who convinced her to go on that bender. That was all Bojack
@@carlycrays2831 bojack didn't convinced her though she was staying sober cause you get more high after not taking drugs for a long time she was going to do drugs with or without bojack
Just realised - Bojack keeps saying there are no connections, as if each incident exists in a vacuum like an episode of a sitcom. Biscuits is the one pointing out that he's the common thread between them
Even if you don’t like how Biscuit is coming off here, you have to agree with her. Bojack thinks he doesn’t have any power over women, yet he had the power to save a woman’s life, someone who he claims “was like a daughter” to him yet played a vital role in destroying her life till it finally killed her.
My issue is that she let Paige - a woman who didn't care about the victims - encourage her into doing that second interview. If Biscuits really cared about the victims, she should've been relentless at the first interview.
Daaamn she straight up destroyed Bojack lmao
He destroyed himself.
She destroyed him but he definitely helped
This interview was the final nail in Bojack’s coffin and his career, even a year later it’s still traumatising
It's kinda fitting how his last role is playing a corpse in the Mr. Peanutbutter show X-)
Not really. He plays the Horny Unicorn in the movie of the same name and it is implied in the finale that he will return to Hollywoob as if nothing had happened, just as Vance Wagner tried in season 5.
"How do you know all this?"
"You're Bojack Horseman, we HAVE to know!"
"Keep on rocking in the free world, and doot doota loot doo..."
Oh, god... _imagine_ if Nardwuar existed in the show?
Hahahaha top comment
@@KidRunnerH If he did, what will he give to Bojack as "gifts?
The crazy thing is if you watch this entire video twice it's still not quite the full 17 minutes but it puts into perspective how long those 17 minutes were.
"No, you're right, it was mostly the heroin" is correct! Mostly the heroin, partly Bojack waiting for 17 minutes like a coward