The Story Of Large Vessel Engines
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- čas přidán 30. 05. 2024
- A look at the evolution of the engines that power large cargo vessels, as they evolved over the last 100 years. Starting with coal-driven steam reciprocating engines such as the triple expansion engines, steam turbines and finally to modern diesel marine engines. The different configurations of marine diesel are also explored and how their characteristics lend themselves to powering the largest ships in the world.
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Hi, marine engineering student here, I want to make a comment on the electric drive pods shown in the video at 12:04. This type of propulsion is not more efficient than conventional type of propulsion and here is why.
For electric propulsion the diesel engines drive huge generators generating electricity. After that the electricity is transferred to the propeller's electric motor via an high voltage system. Then the electric motor has to turn the electric energy back into motional energy. In all these transitions of energy you lose some efficiency. Furthermore, the huge electric motor straight after the propeller increases drag. That's why this system is less efficient than conventional propulsion. That's also why the biggest container/ cargo ships still use the conventional method.
The advantages of the diesel-electric system is (like you said) maneuverability, but also there is more freedom in placing the engines in the ships design, since the engines don't have to be placed directly in front of the propellers. This is why the diesel electric system is massively used on cruise ships and dynamic positioning ships, where efficiency is less of a concern. Cruise ships sail into harbours almost daily, so a ship with more maneuverability saves in costs of hiring tug boats. Also space on a cruise ship is limited so being free in the placement of the engines helps with a compact engine room design.
Ships with dynamic positioning don't sail as much but need a system like this to accurately stay in position.
For those who have read this, thank you for your time and feel free to ask me any questions!
ps. don't mind my english, it's not my native language.
Thank you; you've made the design compromises very clear.
Thanks, I didn't know anything about any of that.
Is it not the case that cruise ships with a huge hotel load require main engines that are 4 stroke high speed to mainly run alternators, with the consequent reduction in height and possibility of constant running over the two stroke diesel, all of this reflects the commercial application
Yeah i find it weird that a diesel electric would be more efficient than a pure diesel on a ship, especially that no batteries were mentioned. It's not like ships operate like cars. Thanks for providing clarification.
All your points definitely make sense, thanks for taking the time to break it down. Also have you ever seen the opposing engine design that was featured in the video. Thanks.
This channel is gold. ...every video is gold....who need Netflix
@@straenapotheker2985 are you still drunk commrade?
yeah my girlfriend would beg to differ lmao
Not i
@@joeyg29jgjg lol. Well your girlfriend has bad taste then...
It's a matter of time until Netflix will hire CZcams creators to produce for them:)
Underrated channel. Guarantee this will eventually get millions of subs. I sure hope so.
@@liggerstuxin1 much larger problem of today seems to be this idea of immediate knee jerk judgement.
appreciation of early discovery of a channel is suddenly taken as a negative and run in for an unopposed touchdown with a misspelled coup de grace.
Well that escalated fast
Joe Average Bingo
i love knowing more about everything. channels like these are like heaven for curious people and i hope they never stop diving deep into these topics
What would be detrimental to you with more others having discovered this channel before you?
You mention the Titanic as a "steam piston engine" ship. But she was a bit of a hybrid. Her drive used two piston engines driving the wing shafts, and they both exhausted into a single low-pressure turbine that drove the centre shaft. Low pressure turbines have an advantage over the low pressure cylinder in a piston engine is allowing the condenser to set up a lower than atmospheric pressure at the exhaust without fear of water droplets forming and causing hydraulic locks in a piston engine cylinder.
This was exploited by Parsons in the early all-steam turbine ships as well.
Excellente!
Crazy that some of these only reach 80 rpm. Some small gasoline 2 strokes can get above 15,000 rpm. the torque figures on these diesels must by incredible.
Well, the biggest marine diesels (Wartsila RTA96-C) put out over 100,000 HP. Now if that's an 80RPM engine, the torque is (5252/80)*100,000 or 6,565,000 lb/ft. Let's see a Hemi beat that.
Now imagine if they could rev up to 7k or something, the amount of horsepower on them would be astronomical (horsepower being a function of torque x rpm and all). Granted the fuel tanks would also have to be astronomical
I'm glad to watch this channel grow. He deserves millions of subscribers. It's great to see determined creators replace what The History Channel and Discovery used to be.
He should get a decent narrator and another writer. It doesn't sound like he knows what he's even saying.
Good video, struck close to home. I'm a mechanical engineer on board a ferry and we are a part of a pilot project currently, during witch our ship is fitted with peak-shaving hybrid solution. Currently our ship has diesel-electric power plant with azipod thrusters and we sail close to Natura 2000 nature protection area, so with EU/government/company go-funding we will be fitted with 670 kWh battery bank to reduce co2/nox emissions and running costs.
Dont want CO2 anywhere plants ..Years ago there use to breath in CO2 when Global Cooling warming came in trees stopped needing CO2..Don't ask me how it works but we need to stop CO2 dry ice and using it in Greenhouses ..This is to save the World.
@@glendooer6211 That is one very confused post...
@@SolarWebsite No CO2 is causing Global Cooling then Warming and we need to stop CO2 to save the Planet this is why we have Climate change..and spend billions to stop CO2..and remember some of the smartest people want this.
@@glendooer6211 you do realize that CO2 is a trace gas, right? That means it is less than .1% of total atmospheric gases. Get educated, stop listening to leftist propaganda, a get a clue...global warming has been on going since the end of the last ICE AGE
@@therealfearsome Agree but millions think this is the case and want to spend billions stopping CO2
So much new information for me to learn packed inside this video with no fanfare, blaring music or other needless production gimmicks. Thank you!
Who says an old dog can't learn something new ? Always enjoy your content , very informative!
This is crazy how well done your videos are. Quality like any big tv documentary!
And the amount of research you obviusly put in to every video is astonishing.
I watch them all, and hope that you will keep them coming and that more people will find your channel so you make great money for for your effort
Well, dang. I was hoping for an internal look at the big engines, but got a history lesson. Well done and I learned stuff, just not what I was hoping for.
I will be sure to take a moment on Feb 28 to honor Mr. Diesel.
I'm sailing on a 5500grwt supply vessel, we run 4 high speed engines dualfuel engines.
The other advantage to dualfuel which you didn't mention is that the engines are usually a lot more efficient running diesiel on low loads.
I recall at the age of 10, first seeing the diorama of the first shipping route, in the main White Pass and Yukon Route Depot in Whitehorse, Yukon. That was in 1973, shortly after moving here from PEI.
My father worked on the train for four years, beginning as a brakeman (the guy who gets out to change the tracks), and continuing on to engineer (the guy who drives the train) and eventually becoming a conductor (the guy responsible for the whole train). So, the White Pass and Yukon Route is definitely in my blood. Thank you for that brief foray into the past.
As someone who works and a dual fuel vessel (similar to the one you showed in the video you showed a vs485) a wartsila vs4411. the big problem with Dual fuel is the amount of space you loose for cargo. our LNG tank holds about 200m3 of liquid methane, but takes roughly 700m3 of space. Also due to way these vessels operate close to oil platforms with all the engines on on very low power there is a lot of unburnt methane coming out of the funnel which is not very good for the environment.
This channel is excellent. The fascinating topics (the "Small Distances episode was outstanding), the detail, the knowledge shared... it's a great channel. Would subscribe several times if I could.
request= "make video about LCD, IPS-LCD, OLED, and AMOLED" basically explaining the science of behind screens.
i just want to type that bcs i never found that kind of in depth video.
the title of the video should be "the evolition of how we display images" kind of
Well done - some minor additions and corrections. (From the perspective of a retired U.S. Coast Guard marine engineer)
A two-stroke diesel will always have a scavenge blower to clear the exhaust gasses from the cylinder. Typically a Roots-type blower directly driven by the engine, it has to be functioning for the engine to start up. (Noting that Roots-type blowers from General Motors X-71 series engines were repurposed as superchargers on gasoline engines, such as on drag racers.) The turbochargers are generally optional, and use the exhaust gasses to spin up a compression turbine to boost power. By quite a bit. Example: Fairbanks-Morse 38 D 8 1/8 common on large Coast Guard cutters of the '70s and '80s - 12 cylinder version, no turbocharger: 2,000 brake horsepower. Add two exhaust-driven turbochargers which kick in at about 600-700 rpm: 3,600 horsepower, and still a very reliable (although mechanically complex) engine.
Reversing: Using gears to reverse the propeller for stopping or backing down is not feasible due to size and power constraints. Steam reciprocating engines and large diesel engines can be stopped, valve cams shifted, then started up in reverse getting full power to stop more efficiently. Steam turbines used a separate backing turbine which was considerably less powerful, so ships using them would take considerably longer to stop. Controllable pitch propellers can add reversing without changing the shaft rotation, but at the expense of complexity and cost.
Gas turbines: The U.S. Navy uses gas turbines extensively on smaller combatants, up to about the level of "cruiser". A lot of power in a very small package, but at with a considerable penalty in fuel consumption. (The first Coast Guard cutter I was assigned to was a frigate-sized ship with both diesels (19 knots) and gas turbines (28 knots). Range: 10,000 miles on diesels, 3,000 miles on gas turbines. We almost never ran the gas turbines unless the Navy was paying for the fuel. The Maritime Administration funded an experimental gas turbine - powered merchant ship (I forget the name) but it never took hold. I boarded the ship for a safety inspection and the Chief Engineer told me that the controllable pitch mechanism had failed halfway through the first voyage and they had to reverse halfway across the Atlantic.
Those cathedral engines are amazing.
I might be wrong, but I believe the "hybrid ships", that you mention towards the end, is the same drive-train style as modern railroad car engines.
Yeah, the ones mentioned in this video aren't true hybrids. To be true hybrids, they would have to have some kind of energy storage system that can let the engine and propulsion each operate at their most efficient power ratings, while storing energy to balance the loads, like on a hybrid automobile or bus. This isn't necessarily a bad idea, but on a ship you aren't going to have much chance for regenerative braking, and most of the operation under way is going to be at a constant speed (unless you have a large part of the journey fighting a current, like going upriver), so the incentive to make a true hybrid system isn't much.
I understand something I don't understand something but one thing that i do is keep watching because it's f****ng interesting
Thank you for the work you put into this channel. I absolutely love it
That smoke effect at the 2:10 min mark looks pretty amazing. Thumbs up!
Talking about a single screw propeller and showing double trails :D
Brilliant channel!
learned a lot from this one, thanks....would love to see more on the prop pod technology
Wow, Very informative content 👌
Thanks 😊
Excellent content, sir!
Very educational. Well done, thanks.
I follow a lot of naval and history stuff as well as your channel. This is an incredibly cool topic cross :D
Excellent video thank you !!!
Awesome video. Thank you.
I'm still trying to get my head around how engines work, but this video was interesting even without managing to grasp that! Congrats :)
Are you an idiot?
@@User0000000000000004 I'm pretty sure you would look like an idiot too if you tried understanding something of which you don't well grasp the basics of. At least have some self-awareness.
Fantastic video. Good job
Thanks for the info!
Underrated channel, glad I found it before it gets millions of subs.
That was awesome!!!
Great video!
Well done!
Great job 👏
Informative thanks :)
Great video
12:09 - The photo I see in Amazon without checking dimensions.
12:26 - The item I receive
There was mention that maintenance of turbines is more demanding than diesel engines, if I correctly heard. I'm marine engineer, been on steam turbine propelled vessels, and on diesel propulsion, both merchant vessels (LNG and oil tankers). Turbines and turbo generators do not require any kind of maintenance, boiler just cleaning of fuel oil burners from time to time. Diesels are maintenance demanding. Diesel generators especially. Always adjusting valves, cleaning injectors, overhauling fuel oil pumps, overhauls of pistons, changing sump oil, cleaning filters, washing turbines. It's very dirty and physically demanding job.
Man.. the information you give and the way you present it is awesome. Thanks for your content!
This is pretty interesting stuff.
Good video, but at 3.01 mentions that HP does most of the work, however, when engineer takes indicator cards, great efforts are taken to adjust valves so that each piston produces the same power. Also mention that compound/triple engines are far more heat efficient as they reduce the heat loss in each cylinderas hot steam comes in contact with cooler metal. If that metal is hotter (ie. at a higher average temperature), the heat loss is less and more steam pressure is there to push the piston.
It's 6 ads on your channel 🤕🤕👍
Excellent 😍 video
Interesting!
I'm always so impressed with just how much people and the government was willing to invest into our nation and mega projects, infrastructure projects, all over the place and they just did it because that's what we should do and they were willing to take experimental risks to see if things would surprise them in useful beneficial functions. Like that company that developed the "Land Train" and "The Snow Freighter" it was so amazing and I love that project and the company's founder who came up with the ideas.
damn, I unexpectedly learned so much
nice and interesting video! its fascinating at what massive scale at the global shipping industry works. I'm studying engineering with a focus on road vehicles and metrics like cost, efficiency, maintenance, and speeds are completely different.
just one comment (IMHO) a thought the red line was a little bit less clear than in the previous videos.
Well written and narrated, with excellent graphics. Congratulations on a fine production!
awesome
Yay multifuel engines! With those we can meet alle the emission requirements while close to shore and still burn
refinery waste once entering international waters (where no one can enforce emission requirements).
I still like more idea of increasing CO2 emission cost, so all its production would be moved to China and we would just consume imported goods, while entitled to smuggish behaviour.
I can tell you that in practice dualfuel engines have a tiny little problem while running on LNG, at lower loads unburnt methane gets shot up the funnel. methane is a lot worse for the environment than co2.
Heavy Fuel Oil is not refinery waste. These fuels need a lot of treatment on board the vessel: filtering, purifying and heating and pressurising so that they can be forced through the engine injectors.
@@bh_486 Oh yeah. Lets find all the technicalities to distract from the real matter. Well played.
@@georgf9279 - You have lost me. What is the real matter?
Imagine nuclear cargo ships.
imagine no more. the russians are putting their power plants on the water
@@theshuman100 more relevant would be that they have nuclear ice breakers...
yeah, imagine the "highly trained" crews operating said reactors...what could possibly go wrong...
I was thinking the same thing. Nuclear engine, electric drive.
The small reactors used on ships require a higher grade of fuel.
You will never see civilian ships powered by weapons grade uranium :)
As for safety, so far the US navy has operated nukes for decades with no issues.
Great Engines
You deserve so many more subscribers man, unbelievably interesting content man, love it
Interesting.
At 4:08 who in the hell is the monster shoveling coal!!!?? I know it's due to the long exposure, and him moving, but damn.
Last few hundred years has been about want and not need huh?
Great video. Seems like u put alot of work into it. 👍
Maybe a short video on bunker fuel, diesel #1 and #2?
With the new IMO regulations a lot of deep sea ships are install g (or being built with scrubbers). The high end ones are ver good, and make heavy fuel oil clean (not dumping the bad stuff in the sea either). Have a look at Wärtsila on CZcams. They have some great videos on different scrubbers!
It's interesting how the 2 stroke dominates among both the smallest engines and the largest engines while the 4 strokes dominate in the mid range. However, a small engine 2 stroke is pretty different from these huge ones. A small 2 stroke does not need forced induction, or exhaust valves, the piston does all this. However, they do need oil mixed in to the fuel as the crank case is used to house the fuel air mixture before it's put in to the combustion chamber through transfer ports.
And thank you for debunking the myth that big vessels engines are polluting a lot. It's always easy to blame others
Where did he say that?
Bruh am I the only one who laughed when the tiny boat photobombed that beautiful shot. 9:41
Everyone should read more into open loop scrubbers. The Guradian has a piece on the impact of open loop scrubbers that you may consider reading. IBIA has a piece to counter The Guardian and other media. A search related to "maritime open loop scrubber installation" will lead to additional sources if you want. Educate yourselves.
Great video by the way, forgot to say that in my last comment about the poop.
Fantastic Content. Hello from Ukraine.
My old boat ohio class sub had a 8 1\8 inch 12 cyl 24 piston fairbanks & morris back up diesel. 800 rpm max. I miss running her.
A large ship mechanic stated that they could replace the Piston rod without shutting the engine off supposedly they could isolate one cylinder and work on it ,
I have played with combustion engine since I was 7 years old and I cannot imagine how in hell they are able to do that and I have been a mechanic for 38 years ,
maybe I misunderstood ...maybe it is as you say... vessels with two engines... they could shut one engin down work on it while the second engin keeps propulsion going ,
if anyone have an idea if such thing could be possible please share with us .
10:17 how is this different if it were used with dual crankshaft engine 8:48 with two less valvetrain, with direct drive, this would not reduce the complexity, or it can't do slow speeds?
Commenting to give him more views
I've found it interesting that we can get gas out of the ground. You drill down and there's a giant cave full of gas. I know how it's theorised to happen but it's weird when you think about it.
the cost of operating an electric drive on a ship is not 20% lower, but usually a little higher than a normal disel
(2 energy changes less: mechanical - electric, electric - mechanical). The actual performance is influenced by the way the vessel is used (whether it usually sails along long, uninterrupted routes, or does a lot of maneuvering and requires a severe change in engine load). Large ships (with the exception of passenger ships) sail on long routes, so the electric drive will not replace the diesel quickly.
The first ship with a diesel engine was Danish Selandia 1912
Oh yeah, I was wondering why 2 stroke engines can't be naturally aspirated. Is it because the exhaust needs to be blown out because it isn't being pushed out by the piston?
A global fuel sulphur cap has just been entered into force on January 1st, 0.5% by weight globally; EU ports, emission control areas capped at 0.1% by weight. Some ports uses drones to check the exhaust gases, a lot more work for the engineers to ensure a complete changeover from high sulphur fuel oil (HSFO) to low sulphur fuel oil (LSFO).
Diesel engines do not "require far less maintenance than steam engines".
Of course steam ships have higher operating and fuel costs. Generally their maintenance costs get higher as they age. However, motor ships have higher maintenance costs from the start. Ask any marine engineer that has sailed both (me).
The comment about the HP cylinder doing the most work at 3:03 is wrong. The work performed by each cylinder is the same because the area of each cylinder is carefully calculated to produce the same amount of "push" on its crank throw. The volume of expansion of the steam in the LP cylinder is the same as volume of expansion of a single expansion engine producing the same power at the same rpm. The staging of expansion produces advantages in thermal efficiency and mechanical operation.
For the steam engine now and 2020 you do not have to use cool but to heat the water you have generators and electric burners that can operate steam engines without Kohl's. And also now you even have frequency that ignite water with sound. Thank you for letting me share
I can imagine the Cat and the ladies in restaurant memes with the cat is Rudolf Diesel and 2 ladies is Thomas Newcoman and James Watt..
I remember when LNG was merely transported across the ocean for on-land use. Flex-fuel engines are the future for a while.
i love motors
You mention the fuel efficiency of these engines. How is it measured and what type of numbers do they produce. (E.G. 37% thermal efficiency or whatever)
Nice video. I might have worded some things differently, but not bad. I sailed as an engineering officer, for context. The crosshead solves for many functions on two strokes, but yes the crosshead takes the side thrust that a no crosshead piston would require a large skirt to take. Also it allows for increased efficiency in that the straight up and down of the piston allows the piston to completely seal for underpiston supercharging, diminishing the need for a supercharger at high speeds.
how do you make these animations?
Could you please list your sources in the video description? It would make the verification process of the informations validity far more convenient.
I love your videos. I wonder if you would be kind enough to give measurements in feet as well as meters, for those of us metrically impaired. I, for one, would be most grateful. 💕 Edit: I realize this video is now 4 years old.
Good video, but the first minute or so made me question if the video was really about marine engines.
Thanks, Warming up with some history is kind of my thing :)
By most efficient engine ever...I'm assuming gallon per tonnage moved?
NewMind is a man who knows alot about certain things. But we don't know anything about him.
As much as I've learned: he knows about computers, flatness, engines of all sorts, fuel injection, roundness, quantum calculations.
He doesn't know nor care that the earth orbits the sun. That would take up a piece of his brain that could better used to solve crimes
This is one top grade channel. I'm sure it will soon make it in the same league and as popular as the "Real Engineering" channel
It contains misinformation
the upscaling fucking hell
The Rogers was the first container ship you say?
Um, about that letter "M" on the containers you show. You don't think it might stand for Matson, as in Matson Lines, maybe?
Why do these never use external combustion engines? Aren't they more efficient?
With plenty of seawater to act as a heatsink, they could use Sterling engines.
9:50 im speeeeeeeeeeeeeed
Those expansion chambers are very creatively named. 😅
Chamber 1,2 and 3 were colorful alternatives.
Error. You said two-strokes require artificial breathing.
That registered tonnage was Gross...