Top 5 R56 Mini Cooper S Timing Chain Myths
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- Top 5 R56 Mini Cooper S Timing Chain Myths
In this video I’m going to discuss the myths about the timing chain found in BMW Mini Coopers.
Myths:
1. Plastic is the worst material that timing chain guides could be made out of.
2. N14 has timing chain tensioner issues but the N18 doesn’t.
3. Timing chains stretch.
4. Timing chains are lifetime parts and shouldn’t fail.
5. Replacing the timing chain is to hard or expensive.
How to replace the timing chain on an R56 Mini Cooper S (N14 engine)
• How to replace the tim...
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Very informative video!
Project Mini, do you know when the updated (i.e. longer) timing chain tensioner was introduced? Just trying to figure out if my car (production date 12/2007) was originally equipped with the revised tensioner.
It was revised a few times. I doubt that a 2007 had the new version
Thanks for the great explanation on timing chain stretch. We hear that term so often, but you made me finally understand the mechanism behind it. Makes a lot more sense now why some chains would require more frequent attention than others.
Your video was a big encouragement!!! I'm ready to change mine with 108K on my R56 S.
I love your videos, I just got a 2008 Mini Cooper clubman s that I did the timing chain job on it when I got it because the guy sold it for cheap with timing chain slap. The car now has 94k on it and it’s never seen a winter so it’s spotless, I live in Maine by the way lol
Good info. My R55 Mini with N18 engine has a cracked plastic top guide...Mini dealer quoted $2975...with your help, I saved lots of cash doing the job myself...well parts are on order. Thanks!
Bro it’s just the valve cover and 2 bolts to get the guide off
Damn.....they will bend you over if YOU allow them to do it.
@@mikespillers8023 It will just crack again if you don't resolve the issue on why it cracked in the first place.
Yeah i got quoted over 3k from an independent shop. I was mindblown. In the process of doing the job myself, no plastic in the oil pan like they told me there would be. My car is well maintained and they told me they would find a bunch of other issues to fix along the way.
Thank you 🙏 great video 👍✌🏼
they revised the chain tensioners twice from the original.. you can tell by looking at them which revision you have.. when you have one that just looks like a bolt then it's a first iteration.. the 2nd iteration had chamfered edges as opposed to a flat head and the third generation is the one you have in your hand with a small hole in the middle.. and the timing chains definitely stretch (you've just worded it slightly) - stretch = chain lengthening... you can check if your chain is in tolerance by using the tool..
I think is doable...thanks for this video
Hey there huge thanks for all your videos. I have an R55 S (2010) and already have the intake and valve cover off as I'm replacing some things. I noticed my timing chain guide on top is broken and I thought maybe now is a good time to replace the whole timing chain assembly. However not sure if it needs it or not - I was going to order a pretensioner tool to check but maybe it's better to just replace the whole thing. Car has 110k miles and I've had it since 90k (no idea of the history before then). Timing belt replaced when I got it.
Also have a small head gasket leak! I'm not sure if I'm brave enough to do that job so I'm hoping I can seal it with a head gasket sealer and coolant flush.
It is a easy job, for the mechanically inclined, but its somewhat time consuming if you’ve never done it before. As far as being able to afford regular maintenance, I think a lot of it is people buying a used one coming up on 100k miles and are expecting a multi thousand dollar bill right off the bat. Cheapest near me was ~3k, some quoted 4-5.
New sub here and new to the mini ....
Great video. I’m convinced to it myself. How do I determine the right chain kit? (ie variable cam timing determination)
Thank you for the detailed explanation about the Timing Chain, very informative 💯. I'm planning to buy a Mini 2015 Roadster Cooper S R59/N18 Engine with 62,000 mile on it. When do you recommend to change the timing chain? And what is the best timing chain out there? Thanks.
Hi, great explanation. I’m not a mechanic. My minis are a hobby. I have heard so much about the timing chain rattle yet I have not come across someone posting an video or audio file where it can be “identified”/recognized. I wonder if you happen to have a video or file with this sound?
Thx
It's that tiny plastic tail on the top of one of the corners of the guide that freaks me out. That thing is so thin. I found one in my engine.
Nice video heck with all the haters most people are just lazy and don’t do preventive maintenance. I have a 2005 r53.80000miles no issues because Leo all maintenance my self🤪
Thanks for all the great info about the timing chain. I have a 2010 R56 S with 55k miles and I'm always anxious about mine going bad and self-destructing. It doesn't seem to be making any bad noises though. On a separate note, I notice that your hood has a heat shield on it. Did that come stock? Mine doesn't have that and I'm wondering if I need some kind of heat shield so the turbo won't warp anything, like I've heard happening to some owners. Thanks again for your time and all of your great videos!
If your car was made late in 2010 i might not have came with one since 2010 was the last year. Here’s a link to one you can buy
www.waymotorworks.com/mini-cooper-s-hood-heat-insulation-r55-r56-r57.html
@@ProjectMini May be off topic but need advice. Can buy a 2011 Mini off a lady going through a divorce for $3,000. Fax looks good from what I can tell except one minor accident 4 years ago that rear ended a car and set off air bags. Grille and bumper was replaced and repainted. See nothing that worry’s me other then it has 170,000 mikes on it. $3,000 a good buy? 2011 Mini automatic a good car?
My mini has a misfire I've replaced the spark plugs and the injectors but I've still got the misfire in cylinder one is this the timing chain thanks
I admire your patience and generosity of sharing so much informations about these cars but I don't agree with you about ''timing chains have to be changed''
A well made timing chain will last more than the lifetime of an engine but on the N14 the chain is smaller than a bicycle and we are talking of about a 175 hps engine. BMW has made it too cheap like a majority of the parts of the R56 N14
Do you think the same interval should be used on a base R56?
i have a n18 w/ 59k miles and I have had a chain rattle on cold starts and when right when i am engaging the clutch in 1st after the cold start. Do you think its time for a new timing chain, or something else?
i gave a problem with a mini.i can't figure out the p0014 and p0015 codes. help !!!!!
whatever BMW says the R56 N18 has the same problems as the N14. Mine failed at 65000 and resulted in $8000
BMW/MINI tech here. Im all for people working on their own cars, but for timing chains.. all it takes is one mistake, one under torqued bolt, not using new bolts, forgetting something and you got potentially serious engine damage. i dont mean to scare the more experienced DIY'ers here, but its a risk that you should be well aware of if you are considering doing this yourself. also, ive seen minis with as low as 50k KMs that needed the chain to be replaced, after working on plenty of them you kinda learn the sound of a chain noise developing, that usually the customer is not aware of
Would be grateful for your advice/feedback on my issue: I have a 2016 Mini S Countryman All4. Getting Engine Malfunction…Engine Operating at reduced output. Getting P1338 code. Starts take longer now. Definitely feel hesitation in acceleration. Not sure if it’s my imagination but there is a certain odor (smells kinda like antifreeze) inside the cabin when I put the heat on. This Engine Malfunction alert comes on and off. As per a lot of forums and CZcams, wastegate/sensor likely issue. Is it OK to operate the vehicle until repair can be made? I’ve already replaced the coils/plugs, air filter, and mass air flow sensors as many said to replace these before digging deeper into more expensive repairs. The MAF was definitely not working, so that was easily replaced. Would greatly appreciate any advice. Thank you.
put a new kit in and it went bad after 1200 miles. Must have given me one of the old tensioners now i'm stuck not knowing which tensioner to buy in case they sell me the old style again..
How fast does your oil get black,after an oil change on your R56 ?
Sooooo.... Looking at a one owner 2008 Clubman S- the dealer cannot provide records of either: TSB/Recall Replacement, or, any replacement of the timing chain/tensioner at all. It has 71k miles on it. I told the Dealer that if they couldn't provide documentation of service(s) I wasn't interested. What I'm hoping is they'll agree to change the timing chain/tensioner to make the sale. They being said, what else would/should I look out for? I've heard that Mini had a ludicrous oil change interval schedule of 15k, which I'm just scratching my head over. Sludge/carbon must be an issue, but, how to check, without popping off the valve cover or borescoping it? I haven't even test drove it, so, I can't tell you what it sounded like on start up and driving.
I don’t know why the minis get so much hate on the engines really, it’s like people think they don’t need to maintain them like every other engine or something. I mean I got an oil leak, had to replace the timing chain and the valves needed walnut blasting but that was because the previous owner never did any maintenance on the thing and it all built up.
Did a partial rebuild on my N14, R56, including a new timing chain assembly and MANY other parts including head overhaul. After head job the Car ran but not well. Discovered leaking exhaust valves. Had to pull head. Found grit in VANOS solenoid, freaked me out. Found out the first machine shop SAND BLASTED my head and left grit in passage ways. Had to pull head. Head is now done right by a reputable machine shop. Grit destroyed cams and lifters. Now I'm worried about my brand new oil pump and if my cylinder walls are scored but that's another story. My question to you is- When I pulled my head the second time I left my (new) timing chain on the crank sprocket and slipped the head off the chain after pulling intake and exhaust cam sprockets/VANOS, guide tensioner, guide mount bolts.
Any tips on re-installing timing chain in this configuration (chain on undisturbed crank sprocket)? flywheel was/is pinned and cams will be in time with special tool. Your videos are good, I respect your opinion. -Thanks in advance, Jeff
I’ve heard of people doing this in the past. Pull the chain tensioner out, install cam sprockets DONT tighten the am bolts yet!
Install chain tensioner, then tighten cam bolts.
It's important to know what BMW/Mini understands under a car lifetime. According to BMW Financial Services a BMW/Mini lifetime ends at 150.000KM. So yeah if you interpret car lifetime like BMW your Mini's timing chain and your transmission oil are no need to service parts. There is a trick though. More frequent oil changes(I do mine at least every 10k KM or 7.500KM when I run Motul 300v Competition) and ceramic oil additive. My N13 powered 1 series(basically a Mini N18 longitudinal mounted) timing chain is still within tolerance though it's already got 130K KM on it and is used mainly in short distance traveling. I have no doubts it will stay strong for the next 50K KM to come. Nonetheless the N13/N18) is designed to do a chain replacement in less than 1.5 hours which is why I will do it most likely before reaching 150k KM. It's just a 300€ job.(unless you decide for the official BMW rip off service)
To answer the first myth from a materials standpoint coming from the 3D printing community. BMW intentionally used materials that would fail at high temps. PTFE which a ton of people think is a high temp material fails at 100C. They failed to account for the heat creep involved in the thermoplastics they used and also failed to take into consideration how the moisture would cause the plastic to fail as well. This is the same thing that is going on with Dodge and the glass bead reinforced plastics that will absorb moisture over time and delaminate without the end user even understanding what is going wrong. The material science is well documented.
Great video. I have a mini cooper 2009 with a p0015 code. changed the sensor but the code did not went away. any suggestions? do you belive it can be the timing chain? car is running but it looks like it takes long to respond acceleration
Did you end up fixing it? Mine is throwing the code rn, trying to figure out if it’s the timing chain or not
I have an 2012 R56 that I just ordered the kit from Detroit Tuned for. I'm way past due with a factory chain at 171K miles. It just started making noise when starting.
Hey I wonder if you happen to have a sound recording? I would like to compare with what my r56 is doing? Thx
@@davidrodriguez-hp3id Sorry, I do not
"Timing chains are not lifetime".... okay, sure. But I have a Kawasaki with over 230k miles on it with the original timing chain. I have a Nissan with over 165K miles, neither needed a timing chain, guides, or tensioner replaced, and I've never given either any thought about it, they simply last because they were properly designed in the first place and well lubricated during operation. I've owned several others examples of different manufacturers over the years, and none had an 80K mile timing chain interval, only belt driven timing like VW / Audi had such a short interval.
I think I 09 needs that, I've never done one but I think I can get it done
I have a question. Do you recommend upgrading the cams? It looks like the perfect time since you are repairing the timing chain.
Anything that makes your car faster gets a thumbs up from me 👍
@@ProjectMini I suspect it's almost same process as changing the timing belt 🤷🏾♂️
You have to remove the chain to replace the cams but make sure you tighten them up right or you’ll be replacing your valves. Milmast has a good video that shows how its done
@@ProjectMiniThanks
I have a 2010 r56 s. I read the chains were better on those models. Any truth to that and how long should it last if so?
Isn’t that still an N14? Either way i would still change it at 80k
FYI first generation Saturns timing chain were designed to last 400 thousand miles.
My sons Mini had the rattle of death and was quoted £500 to fix it, I did a bit of research and told him to try changing the Tensioner and bingo it stopped the rattle and only cost him £28..
👍😉✌
I've been lookin into the death rattle issues for quite some time. I don't think I have issues with mine yet. I own a 2010 mini cooper s Clubman. When I start the car, I do not have issues. However I noticed that when I'm driving my car when its fully warmerd and I have my windows down. I can hear the engine and what seems to be the chain or something. I'm not sure if it's because of it going bad, or its because of the engine just being loud. My car has 107,000 miles and I'm sure it's never low on oil. This only occurs when I'm driving the car. Any thoughts on this?
i have a mini cooper S 2009, with about 80,000 miles on it, the engine as far as i know has no issues, but compared to other cars its definitely louder. i think thats just a general quirk of mini engines, so i wouldnt worry about it. definitely do keep an eye on anything unusual though, something will eventually need replacing, especially at a high mileage like yours
@@batatereluelimusic Okay that's good to hear. I've done a lot of maintence since I got it. I replaced the valve cover and oil pan gasket for oil leaks, water pump and thermostat. I need to replace my oil feed line to the turbo. Overall the car has been good. My wallet, no haha.
Direct injection engines make some strange diesel like noises. Also the dual mass flywheel can cause noise as well but usually you can tell that apart because it will change with clutch engagement.
I thought they used nylon not plastic? 🤔
You still got the mini?
I still have them both, i have to deal with CA emissions before i can drive my R56 though
Car manufacturers have no SHAME. My 2007 Subaru Forester timing belt lasted more than 105,000 miles. My 2002 Lexus GS 300 timing belt lasted over 470,000 miles car now have more than 500,000 on it . Were car manufacturers smarter back then so timing belts would out last steel or smarter now to RIP off the consumers.
Lol. I’ll take things that never happened for €200
I had the timing chain break at about 50k miles on my 2012 Mini Cooper. No warning . It went KKKRRRRRAAAAAKATHAKATHAKATHAKAAAAA...........it sounded exactly like set of silverware in a garbage disposal. F@$%@%$@!!!. It thrashed my valves etc and debris everywhere. Cost me over 5 grand for a new engine. There was a class action suit against Mini for this but to my chagrin only covered up until 2011 models!!! If anyone has insight or other knowledge about this please let me know!!
Ive got the 2010, already going 200k miles only changed batery and did all the normal maintnance
80k miles for a timing chain. My 94 saturn went 474 thousands miles. German engineering SMH.
Get a toyota. Timing chain on those go at least 300k miles
I prefer timing belt, much cheaper
Not really, how many belt would you change on a belt car! Cheaper when new, but chain is higher quality and sometimes last the life of the car
"The chain doesn't stretch"
Except they do physically, in the true sense of the word "stretch". You've clearly never held a stretched chain to a new one and seen with your own eyeball that the old chain will be slightly longer..... because it stretched. 🤦♂
I'm sorry but a well designed chain is for life .
I'm sorry but they are not, with that being said, a shorter chain will last significantly longer however they will develop chain slap against the timing cover which can eventually lead to chipped teeth on the gear over time, and thus making the engine jump time. I've seen it happen loads of times on chevy 5.3s. If you don't replace it, you may or may not end up with catastrophic failure right away, but there will be certain engine power loss. I've replaced oil pumps on trucks and low and behold you pull the timing cover and you're now also replacing cam gears etc.
They are. You are clueless
M54 bmw 600.000 same chain. Must be in luck then…
Is timing chain wearing out a unique feature of Peugeot/Mini? For those of us growing up with Detroit OHV engines, timing chains were forever. My ‘94 BMW 325IS sold to the next person at 195K miles and 2003 Accord 4-cylinder (1st year using chain vs. belt) sold at 240K mi., both with original chains and no chain-related issues. We have a ‘12 N16 R59 with 194K mi, a daily driver with original timing chain but new tensioner at 100K, plan to change tensioner and check guides again at 200K. Synthetic oil changes at max 5K mi. BTW, thanks for the Mini DIY group; it has saved us time and expense more than once.
Oil prevents wear that’s what it’s for plastic guides are pants. All mini models begin to show timing chain issues at around 60 k bmw built a rubbish car preying on the gullible fashion victims that think that buying a mini with an as semblance of the union flag in the rear lights is buying an iconic British vehicle designed by an Italian. This is bs. They very cleverly reproduce the driving experience of the original mini but they are twice the size and twice as comfortable as a real mini. Oh the bmw version is also gutless and half as fast as a real mini . These beemers are plagued with issues if you want that small car experience buy a fiat.
Why would you be replacing your chain every 80,000 miles. It's a chain, not a belt
Chains wear out. I change my chain on my mountain bike often due to the exact reason he talked about…
its more about chain guides, it wears.
Its simple. This particular engine had a really bad issue with the Chains going bad. There was a class action lawsuit to the tune of 30 million. That suit ended in 2016, but the cars are still out there. One of the issues Ive read is that the tensioner was too short and when it got hot, it caused an issue with the chain expanding. Once the chain was expanding, it started beating against the engine and the rail guide. Either the chain or the rail guide goes, causing a catastrophic engine event. Chain or rails break apart and fall into the oil pan, which can get into the engine if the screen is broken. Engine go bye bye.
@@Wrangzilla hahahahh absolutely not the same thing.
While I agree with the overall sentiment, the engines themselves are statistically way more likely to fail than they should be. I've lived these R56's, loved my one but I'll be the first to say that mechanically they're garbage. Stem seals, chain failures, hpfp, thermostat and the oil consumption just to name a few. Anyone who says that they're "just fine and people don't look after them" are lying to themselves. They break, all the time.
You’re talking garbage. Your cars have been shit
It's not a lifetime part only because the quality is poor. The chain is a lifetime part on all other engines! That's the whole point of a chain instead of a belt.
A car like a Mini should have been designed to use a BELT!