Ben Davison claims Josh Taylor vs Jack Catterall was not as controversial as everyone makes out
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 16. 06. 2024
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So, if Ben tells his fighters that they need a knockout before the start of the 12th round, he actually means they're winning on points and they don't need a knockout. Seems legit to me.
On that point he explained himself fairly eloquently that he was fine before the point deduction happened. Btw I'm not picking a side here.
I can speak eloquently about how Josh won every round 10/8, wouldn't give what I'm saying anymore validity though..
Exactly đŻ
Heâs a liar. Thankfully the whole world know who won. At least we know Ben is a liar now
đ€Ł
Ben Davies :- I wouldnât just sit here and completely lie đđđđ
He was clearly 5 or 6 points in front' if you believe fury beat wilder in the 1st fight how can you say jack never won by a mile.
Exactly
Yh I mean wilder vs fury 1 was actually pretty close as wilder landed 6 punches a round on average and fury landed 7 on average I had it 114-112 fury but often people have poor perceptions like wilder canât box or catterall hasnât fought anyone at this level so Taylor should win I always said a guy whoâs unbeaten is normally hard to beat so I predict a Taylor win but a catterall win was still in my mind
Good comeback .
Heâs the reason why boxing is in the toilet
Iâve watched the fight 3 times with no sound jack won easy
The volume controls are usually located on the front of your remote.
Jack definitely won , totally schooled josh, Ben is talking rubbish you can see in his face he knows he's talking bull
Wasn't even close
Saying things like this Ben is what gets peoples backâs up
@@davidbailey4189 yes obviously
Ask ben which rounds they won..
Why does this guy keeping lying through his teeth. He said Josh outworked jack but the punch stats round by round tell a completely different story
Jack out-landed Josh in 11 of 12 rounds and landed more POWER SHOTS in 9 of 12 rounds. When you add a knockdown into the equation, it was about as controversial as it gets. Heâd get more respect if he just admitted they got lucky.
Yep and all by a huge distance. Wasnât even close. This coach and taylor are an embarrassment. They must get their advice on what to say from russia
After that fight Iâve decided not to watch anything to do with Top Rank, itâs clear to anyone with half a brain Jack won that fight CONVINCINGLY, There is no way 3 experts (apparently) scored that fight in favour of Josh without corruption.
The punch stats alone round by round make it impossible for Josh to win, doesnât matter about styles either and even his own fans said he lost.
No one gives a toss. Especially Top Rank.
2 judges 1 gave it to jack
Close fight I gave caterall the benefit and had him 1 up
Simon Jordan finally holding him to account now ask him about the comments he made regarding the British boxing coaches being not good enough and lazy
Pointless having him on the show. You need to get Shane mcguigan on. His opinion to the fight and josh Taylor was very interesting.
Shane would still have him if his old man wasn't such a crook
Pointless having who on the show Spencer Oliver?
Catterall landed the more eye catching shots whilst running away and hanging onto Taylor's arms for dear life and also by running away in the championship rounds in the champs on country won't win titles.
He outfoxed and outboxed taylor who thought he could impose himself up close an JC was just going to stand there and crumble.
Catteralâs tactics were bang on and he cruised that win, not sure which fight you watched fella.
@@ravbhurji7294 taylor clearly won
McBellend.
@@adambentley3171 talking about yourself again princess
Its called boxing mate not head banging
Davison is such a fraud , he was actually trying to say that robberyâs In boxing donât happen in America and Josh Taylor won the fight against catteral đ€Ł.
Ben had plenty to say when tyson fury got robbed in america.
Now it goes for him and he doesnt want anyone to have any opinion on the judges ?
What's ben on about, I grew up 2miles from josh and support him and want him to win and I thought Jack won convincingly, ben said it gets scored differently in America plus if the yanks aren't saying anything then What's the problem, don't understand why Ben's saying this đ€
He is correct.
Complete lies from Ben. He knows he is lieing as well
The 20 random people argument was the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard lmao
Spencer is a clown , Ben talks sense a proper realist
I am NO fan of Ben âHollywoodâ Davison (nor do I like Taylor) but I have to agree with Ben. This was no where near the robbery people make it out to be. I have seen MUCH worse.
I can also empathize with Benâs frustration of debating boxing with casuals who are carrying the same narrative as everyone else.
It was a close fight. It could have gone either wayâŠ.but if you guys think this was the great robber of the 21st century I can list five greater robberies this year alone thus far.
Casuals thought Taylor would steamroll Catteral, and when he didnât they assume we should lose.
Again, I canât stand Taylor or Davison, but it is what it is.
He got dropped and punched all night. Look at the punch stats - itâs not even close.
I need a line of whatever Ben is sniffing, you told your own fighter he needed a knockout going into last round and he didn't even win the last round but you say it could of gone either way.... Wtf.
Not mention Taylor was a point down between the knockdown and the points taken off either side and it was 166-85 in punches landed that pretty much 2 to 1 how the fucking fuck do you reckon that's close!?!
Heâs right..I rescored for josh as wel
Is that you stevie wonder
@@user-bq9zy1uf3u jack sucks
Ben: cmon Josh this is the 12th round we need a knockout!!!!!
Also Ben: that was Morse code for take it easy we're cruising this on points
Celebrity trainer Ben Davison, cateral was robbed
Ben forgets he was involved with fury wilder 1 of which he said the judges got that decision horribly wrong (of which they did and it was one of the worst judging I had ever seen). The Taylor Catterall judging was ten times worse than that and heâs saying it could have gone either way đ
I've rewatched the fury wilder one fight and it's not a great fight. And via different judging styles makes sense in a way. I can obviously see why fury fans think he won the fight though but its a hard case to say fury ran away with that one when fury was laid on his arse twice in the fight optics wise.
If fury had knocked wilder down on the canvas in the first fight I can see a cast iron credible case for him running away with it. That didn't happen though.
@@Azad_2024_ In other words you know nothing about Boxing. Knockdowns mean nothing especially when you get your arse boxed off for 12 rounds.
"I wouldn't sit here and completely lie".... YOU JUST DID!!!!!
Iâve watched that fight 6 times and the least Iâve got the fight was catterall by 3 rounds
Ben's clutching at straw's now, it's embarrassing đł
Ben's full of it!
So everybody is wrong, Even Ben in the 12th, and this ben is right
I wouldnt sit here and completly lie! Hahahhahahshahah
Ben is embarrassing, bad for boxing
Sometimes, it astounds me how powerful groupthink can be. This was an exceedingly competitive fight that was not easy to score at all. I have seen countless robberies in British boxing - Smith vs Ryder being a notable recent example - but Catterall was NOT robbed in this instance. A case can be made that Catterall should have won but so could a case be made for Taylor winning also. I think people are jumping on the bandwagon because Catterall exceeded expectations, whilst Taylor underperformed.
Below is my objective scoring made at the time, with diligent round by round breakdown. If you don't have an open mind, I suggest you avoid reading on:
Round 1: Quiet round but gave to Catterall based on telling left down the pipe being only action of significance.
10 - 9 Catterall.
Round 2: Clear round for Catterall. Won battle of jabs and plenty of one twos landing at will on Taylor. Each trade a decent body shot each. Nothing else coming from Taylor.
10 - 9 Catterall.
Round 3: Clear round for Taylor. Landing early onslaught - mixing up body and head - including hurtful righthooks on Catterall. Catterall lands only a single one two in round. Taylor more busy and starting to set uncomfortable pace for Catterall. Highly effective aggression by Taylor.
10 - 9 Taylor.
Round 4: Clear round for Taylor. Taylor mixing up to head and body well with right hook. Catterall has small success at end of round but was easily outpunched by the controlling Taylor.
10 - 9 Taylor.
Round 5: Taylor begins round by teeing off with hooks to body and head but is countered by a hurtful left hook to body by Catterall. Catterall follows with 2 straights which hurt Taylor. Catterall lands slick one two again then sees out round with effective doubling of well timed jab. Close round though.
10 - 9 Catterall.
Round 6: Both trade good straight lefts at start but Catterall comes on stronger and continues with hurtful one twos down pipe and backs up Taylor with double and triple jabs. Both trade lefts again. Taylor made to miss lots as Catterall is staying low with stance before meeting for clinches. Two snapping jabs and further body shot lands by Catterall. Nice left uppercut to body from Taylor. Hurtful chopping left by Catterall lands. Catterall peppering Taylor with one twos toward end of round. Catterall finishes round landing 2 hurtful left straights on Taylor. Strong round for Catterall.
10 - 9 Catterall.
Round 7: Sneaky body shot lands by Taylor at start. First half of round belongs to Taylor who tees off at will with heavy hook combinations and lands solid jabs before leaving range. Catterall starting to look tired and is being made to miss. Some success with stiff jab by Catterall toward end of round but Taylor times the left uppercut under the jab well. Taylor finishes round by landing with about 5 unanswered right hooks.
10-9 Taylor.
Round 8: Knockdown for Catterall.
10 - 8 Catterall.
Round 9: Catterall starts round well, landing 4 left straights in quick succession followed by a slick left uppercut which lands.Taylor clearly bothered by this. However, Taylor dictates the rest of the round and pace by landing more power shots of his own. Fantastic body work by Taylor. Case can be made for Catterall based on strong start to round. Though Josh took over fairly quickly and in dominant fashion.
10 - 9 Taylor.
Round 10: Close round. Right uppercut followed by chopping left hand and another right uppercut combination land for Catterall at halfway point. However, entire pace is dictated by Taylor. Taylor landing jabs when he wants and has great success with clean hurtful body work during second half of round. Close round but Taylor landed the cleaner shots and Catterall not busy enough. Point deduction for Catterall.
10-8 Taylor.
Round 11: Nice one two down the pipe by Catterall. Also displaying very good defence of body shots after previously taking too many in prior rounds. Catterall walking on to well timed jabs by Taylor. Great body work starts to land effectively again on a tiring Catterall. Taylor lands clean left straight. Catterall sees out round with controlling jabs. Would have been Taylor round; however, point deducted for silly reason.
9-9
Round 12: Catterall missing lots in first minute of round then walks on to one two. Taylor using jab well. Taylor lands overhand left. Cute short uppercut lands from Catterall. Pace and action dictated by Taylor as Catterall appears very tired. Round ends 7 seconds early for some reason.
10 - 9 Taylor.
113 - 112 Taylor.
Yes, I had Taylor winning a very close fight. Not an easy fight to score; however, there was no excuse for Sky's disgraceful punditry. Also, shame on those who had succumb to groupthink - try watching on mute in future.
Even though I had Taylor winning, I would not have argued with a Catterall win either.
In my opinion, all 3 judges gave reasonable scores.
I got to round 4 in that essay and stopped because youâre clearly delusional. You are the only person in the world who thinks round 3 was a âclear win for Taylorâ. Catterall landed more punches (compubox) and was superb defensively making Taylor miss and catch his punches on the gloves. ESPN (very biased)even gave round 4 to Catterall and so did Victor Laughlin and Howard FosterâŠso again, you and Ian John-Lewis are the only people in the world who thought Taylor won round 4. Delusional my friend and therefore full post not to be taken seriously.
@@manc_revolution6101
The only person in the world? You mean me and Ian John Lewis vs 2 other judges? You indeed are a victim of groupthink. Did you even score the fight?
Let's not stop there. Andre Ward gave it even wider than me at 114 -111, and I very much doubt that he would shill for Bob Arum. He is typically spot on with his scorecards too.
The mere fact that you are relying on Compubox stats leaves me dubious with regard to your boxing knowledge. It means very little. Fights are scored by round and Compubox is prone to human error. It also does not take into account the fact that Catterall landed way more of his shots - many being glancing/blocked jabs - in the first half of the fight.
Also, I said not to read if you didn't have an open mind. Anybody who dismisses a different opinion after reading the first few sentences, by calling them delusional, is close minded in my book. You were free to disagree on the specific point then read on for a more holistic perspective but your cognitive bias wouldn't allow you. Don't worry though; it's not your fault - people are just like that.
Great post. My son and I watched it over here in the states and thought you could've scored it either way. However, even my 15 year old son said there's going to be controversy because Taylor was such a heavy favorite.
The point about Catterall exceeding expectations whilst Taylor underperformed is spot on. No one gave him a chance in that fight. So the fact that he did much better than people thought has hypnotized a lot of casuals into thinking he has won. Group think is very scary and I suspect half the people claiming it was a robbery have watched highlights and not the full fight. Also, Taylors family have received abuse and threats of violence, that is absolutely pathetic and the people doing that need to have a look at themselves. Total losers who cannot accept their boy losing a boxing match.
@@inthebasement Cheers. You are right too.
Taylor will never get any credit from now on with anything he does in boxing until he admits he got lucky
How can ben talk about volume by taylor when jack outlanded him nearly every round
Fair play for him going on.
only time you tell your fighter he needs a knock out in the last round is because he does in a close fight you tell him or her they need the round when you tell them they need a knock out it is because they are down by multiple rounds and its the only way to win the fight
if u picked 20 random people to score that fight 20 of them would of given jack the W end of.robbery.
"11th round in the bag" have a look at the punch stats ben
Well spoken Ben Davis
Ben should have just stayed quiet
Shut up Ben youse got beating convincingly. I thought he was beating by 5 rounds. Iâve watched the fight 3 times now an every time I see caterall winning bigger
Was it a robbery - Absolutely not ( If you want to see a robbery go and watch Roy Jones Jr in the Olympic final) That is a robbery !!
Was it a bad decision - Yes
Lol it was still a robbery dude, roy jones is the worst robbery but that doesn't mean other fights aren't robberies
Ben is 100% correct ,if you didn't score that fight round by round you can't call it
Ben please please just admit it. đ. He was comfortably beaten.
Thereâs people calling for one of the judges to be sacked as heâs blind or on the take but when you look at the score cards 10 out of 12 rounds all 3 judges scored EXACTLY the same. Think about that. 10 out of 12 rounds all 3 judges score it the same.
I watched on espn+ and the American commentary were also shocked that Josh won. đł
He's right, overall watching it live you think catteral wins, but when you actually score the rounds in the days after, like I did, victor loughlin's scorecard wasn't far wrong
đ
And how is that remotely possible when in the vast majority of the rounds jack out-landed josh by a huge margin? The only way someone comes to the conclusion that it was close is that they dont know what they are doing and have no business scoring boxing matches. That goes for you, loughlin and anyone else.
@@JuanCarlosOmar_CHAMP15NS watch it back mate
@@JuanCarlosOmar_CHAMP15NS on the English punch stats not the US ones.
Look what happened with Charlie Edwards v Martinez
Jack "clinch" Catteral didn't do enough for me, period. And Ben's right there is very little to no controversy in America and alot of boxing fans did watch the fight and give analysis on you tube. I think the British broadcast team and pundits poured gasoline on this fight's results. You can't hug your way to an undisputed championship and I'm glad the judges didn't let him.
Depends how you define a âlotâ of boxing fans.
5-10 CZcams boxing fans isnât exactly a lot to me. But each to their own.
Now, we can sit here and talk about Catteralls ineffectiveness, but, what about Taylorâs complete lacklustre approach?
I am a Taylor fan, and I will happily sit here and rewatch the fight again and again without commentary, and thereâs no way Taylor won that. Iâll give him the latter third of the fight at best.
It wasnât the prettiest fight, but thereâs a reason most professionals, pundits and fans agree on this. Thatâs because it was pretty clear cut. And thatâs for a âlotâ of people.
@@joshormerod5382 You can't unhear the original commentary and all that's followed. Not clear if you have watched with no commentary or not, but I don't think it would make a difference because your mind is made up.
Look.. you say you are a JT fan, that's fine, everyone I've debated says the same. I'm a Jose Ramirez fan and you best believe I was yelling at the TV on that 2nd knockdown saying it was a cheap shot. Josh is a dirty gritty fighter that sort of just does enough each time at the top level to win close fights. Against Caterral it was no great performance, his timing was off and he didn't adjust well to Jack's spoiling tactics, but he never quit trying and pressed the fight. Oscar Valdez won a similar decision against Robson Conceicao who Outlanded him but fought the champ very negatively. Didn't clinch but ran around the ring showboating for the second half of the fight. Not smart as the B side challenger. Kambosos is an example of how you win a decision as the B side away fighter in a title fight.
Also, Teddy Atlas, Andre Ward and other content creators with thousands of followers aren't what I'd call You Tube boxing fans. I'm not sure where you got the 5-10 number from. The prevailing thought over here was "no controversy" and people moved on quickly from it.
I think there is a school of thought that to be the champ you have to beat the champ decisively. I didn't get that feeling watching the fight. Jack could have had 2 or 3 points off for excessive clinching(even DQ), one of the worst displays I've seen especially at the lower weights.
@@mrbo2867 I have watched the fight without commentary, and multiple times at that.
I am always willing to change my mind on an evidential basis. Hence why I have re-watched the fight, because I like to assess my own opinion in the cold light of day. Otherwise, I wouldn't re-watch this fight, as it wasn't exactly a barnstormer.
So, I don't agree with you assuming I've made my mind up based on nothing. I've watched objectively on numerous occasions. I just happen to disagree with you on the result on the fight, based on what I have watched.
You have said a few times that the prevailing thought over in the USA is that there's no controversy. But is that true? Hence why I'm saying, I've seen like 5-10 (at most) CZcamsrs say this - not really any more than that. Unless you can cite them?
Additionally, Teddy Atlas never said he thought Taylor won. He simply said he's seen worse robberies (implying this is still a robbery, just lesser so), but still said he thought Catterall should have got the decision by a point or two. He said this on CZcams and then tweeted that Taylor was "lucky to have the belt".
To be exact he tweets: Iâve taken heat on our podcast @TheFightWTA saying that Taylor is overrated. He is lucky to still have belt.
Even if Atlas & Ward thought Taylor won, a fuck load more thought he lost. An overwhelming majority in fact. It's kinda funny that the only Brits who thought they won were the very fighter and trainer that got the win haha.
Paulie Malinaggi is an American I deeply respect as a pundit. He had Catterall winning that too. I'm just not seeing/hearing anything about US fighters/boxers having any form of prevailing opinion on this fight, either way.
Just out of interest, what rounds did you give to Taylor?
I have to say that as an American, I find the British broadcast teams to find narratives early in a fight and just stick to it, regardless of what's happening in front of their eyes. Most of the American broadcast teams aren't great, but I find the British broadcasts dramatic, and not in a good way.
@@ateam137 Exactly my thoughts. If this fight was called differently the uproar would have been much milder. They get away too excited.
I feel like the challenger needs to TAKE the belt from the champion and as a Neutral I donât feel like he did.
If you mean win by a KO, then thats exactly what we are trying to tell you guys is wrong with this decision..because Jack kicked Taylor's arse to win on points, and if that isnt enough, theres alot wrong
Jack easily won the fight. What heâs debating is nonsense.
it was though he won 8 4 quite clearly and outlanded josh with punches
A trainer sticking up for his fighter. Shocking.
Auld Boxercise may as well be farting down the Mic
This guy's made a complete fool of himself here.
It's very obvious why it's not controversial in the states. Because the commentators were for Taylor and had no idea who catterall was. it's not in ESPN's interests to score the fight for catterall
Ben is talking complete utter bollox. Him and Taylor are a disgrace. Hold yeh hands up lads you lost the fight by a mile yet still weeks later you are both talking crap. If you was being honest you wouldn't be getting the stick online that you both have been
Jack won
To take all those title's you have to win without a doubt especially at home ! Jack was getting backed up in the second half of that fight it was Josh was fighting like the challenger. Fury has said there's NO English judges for the Whyte fight that tells you all you need to know.
Oh please they pick and choose when they wanna use that logic in a fight. Pitbulll Cruz did the same thing to tank Davis and tank still won the fight. Same happened when Figueroa faced Felton. He charged at felton the whole fight and landed more shots and they gave it to Felton. The list goes on. Unless you make the most money or most paperview or your promoters have some control of the sport. Whether u win or lose is never gonna be in your control
Chatting out of his bung hole - easy in hindsight to characterise telling Josh he needs the knock out as he needs the round, fact is he was frantic and he knew full well Josh was losing. Total mess. He had one of the best seats in the house and was also emotionally attached to one of the competitors, its ludicrous the shit he's chatting right now. So he's saying he doesn't know boxing. I'd rather these guys just say they were biased - I'd have more respect for the honesty
Good on bed Davison for standing up for his fighter, the fight couldâve gone either way. Or a draw then no one wouldâve moaned. Like if it was a draw would folk be honestly screaming robbery, Taylor would still have his 0 and his belts. Iâve honestly never heard so much bitching about a dodgy decision. There has been plenty worse than that. Catteralls constant holding wasnât what champions do!â
So Ben what u think about the wilder fury 1 fight ? We all thought Tyson won but was a stinker draw you was screaming bloody murder now you canât even admit he lost thatâs whatâs wrong with the sport Ben canât even be honest
Boxercise Ben what an helmet
That logic was stupid. Yeah they may have the odd different round but the majority of rounds would be for Jack.
But there the general consensus all agreed round by round, so Ben is talking out of his arse.
It wasn't a close fight đ
Not only was it a robbery, I think Taylor needs a new trainer
But 20 people weren't asked to score the fight Ben that didn't happen' but 3 professional judges scored the fight wrong đ„
It was a close scrappy fight, hard to score. Josh won, end of. Never a robbery.
People just love to moan and complain about a robbery.
@@JayCee-tp2gv definitely not a robbery.
Thatâs why your boy is running scared now making silly excuses to avoid facing the man he robbed
@@davidcoomber4050 mate, this was nearly a year ago.
Ben doing his reputation wonders đ€Ą
Commentary always plays a big part when your watching boxing they can influence the viewers itâs best to watch the fight and turn the commentary off - however JC won all day
I wouldnt sit here and completely lie il just lie 90% of the time thats all .
He is full of it but backing his fighter all the way
This is the problem with people like Ben defending josh it just triggers people man like why lie ?
Ben Davison is full of BSâŠâŠ
âOver in america there is no controversyâ Nonsense! I havent heard one American say Taylor won
The whole point of 3 judges isn't to ensure that every round is given the same, but to get an average.
If you extrapolate that to 20 people, you'd get a more reliable result.
Yes, there is subjectivity, but on that basis, no boxing result is ever legitimate unless there's a knockout.
Ben is actually correct here,
Ben struggled to defend his boy there, didnât understand what he was saying
Who's he kidding. His fighter lost so his bs comments earlier were meaningless
Tyson reject trainer is talking crap. He should be a politician
Trainers need to be honest too that's why boxing is fucked. Ben be honest he got slapped about
Not one boxer who was there said Taylor had won come on
Ben sounds like boris Johnson
These dubious wins happen and i`m sick of the hankies being out for CAtteral.Ok,he got cheated quiet badly but its in the past.Taylors offered him a rematch at 147lbs and its up to CAtteral whether he wants it or not.
Ben behave yourself
I guarantee you'd see a patern of rounds scored the same from 20 PPL
so Andre ward hasn't got a clue???the fight wasn't that clear cut Catterall never done enough wanted to hold all night taylor far from his best best even on a bad night couldn't put him away
Jack won by a mile, just be honest, all the experts thought Jack won
The fight was a robbery he knows that and the reason why people wasnât screaming it in America was because it was 2 guys from uk and us didnât give shit about that fight
Keen screaming robbery all you want. Who has the belts ?
Boxing is dying because of this type of rubbish. And UFC is improvising massively with its UK stable. Bad news.
Especially with matchroom going on an App which no one can be arsed to watch or want to pay for
Josh Taylor won easy
Everybody going on about Jack Catterall , he is never going to be a world champion he is simply not good enough . He could not beat Josh Taylor on a bad day..
He schooled taylor and got robbed stupid boyđ€Ł
I thought Jake won 8 rounds I think he was robbed but I do think it's strange how the American boxing people don't have the same opinion of a robbery they do believe jack won but they don't think of it like us I personally can't work it out đ€đ€Ł
I, personally, think folks on your side of the pond are being a bit dramatic and have the wrong definition of a robbery. That fight was no robbery. I have no problem w/folks saying that Jack won the fight, but robbery? No. He took entire rounds and long stretches of the rounds off. He was also just taking potshots and holding constantly. When you do that you don't know how the judges are going to score that, especially when the other guy is coming forward and throwing punches, admittedly not landing much, of his own. I think the outcry originates more from the surprise at how well Jack did against Josh than it is about it being an actual robbery. Jack also, clearly and purposefully, punched Taylor in the head when Taylor was already down and should've had a point deducted for that.
@@ateam137 that makes sense i think it's strange how all or a high percentage of Josh Taylor fans turned on him as well đ
Catteral won 7 of the 12 and had a knock down he was robbed Ben Davis you know your man got schooled.
You see Ben is trying to protect his bread and butter fighter Josh Taylor. Everyone knows Jack Catterall won and Ben still insists Josh Taylor, what fight was he watching lol
what was score round by round
Ben is talking bull Taylor got beat easily paid judges
I love how BEN says i wouldn't site here and completely lie , does that mean he doesn't mind lieing a bit then ,đ€Ł and Spencer was correct 19 out of 20 would say jack won fact , I've lost so much respect for BEN ,đ€
Lost respect for Ben. Absolute nonsense
Bore off Ben, your man comfortably lost