Volaris made a mistake and both controllers avoided the collision by instructing their airplanes to do what they had to do. Volaris goes around and Republic stays on the Ground. Great job!
See if you can get anything on the British Airways 288 Emergency Landing at PHX on 12/6/2017. There was video of flames coming out of the engine on takeoff.
drmayeda1 indeed a lot of volaris's first officers are pilots with not much experience, you can hear when the captain in command took over communications
The Volaris initiate the Go Around before ATC even call it. Good call. When the EDV advice tower about the error, Volaris was already in the Go Around.
Great job by all. Kudos to the pilot as well. Sometimes we all make a mistake. We rely on each other to catch and fix problems. That pilot and maybe the chief pilots will be reviewing that in great detail and I doubt that pilot will make that mistake again. In the end the system worked and safety was maintained.
Kennedy didn't trust this pilot. Pilot knew he messed up too. So I don't consider this hating on him he wanted to make 100% sure the same 2 aircraft didn't have another conflict of interest. Once was more than enough.
David Michael • That's exactly right. A mistake that could have resulted in multiple fatalities and untold property damage was averted, and ATC instructed and monitored the best way possible in the end. Regarding posts elsewhere about "haters" - the I now believe some people are so victimized by their own shadows that it seems they would rather have a terrible tragedy play out just so no one's feelings were hurt in the discussions afterward.
You're better off using google maps with your videos because this "ATC" map is pretty useless. I'm an FAA controller (although not at New York approach), but we don't use airway lines like here or coastlines like here which just clutter the scope and would never be depicted. And why would you depict 31 localizers when they're using other runways here? If this is confusing and useless to an FAA controller it's going to be even more confusing and useless to others.
Thanks for this analysis. I am always confused, trying to pick out distinct things. I fly sims and this is super confusing, I have no idea where I'm at.
I hate (ha. ha.) when people assume hate in others so I won't claim that about the ATC here. I do think it _may_ have been a little over-cautious to delay 4231's takeoff clearance with 880 still over 6 miles out. I think it also pushes the bounds of protocol slightly to basically point out 880 like that and hold everything until he's out of the way, so the big kids can play again. It might have been the right choice, but i don't think he needed to go into detail like that.
Agreed. Admittedly I'm not a pilot or ATC, but at 210mph 6 miles out it would've taken 1minute 43seconds before the Volaris touched down. You'd think 4231 would be well clear of the runway by then, right?
I totally have a serious problem with saying 'twenty two left' which the pilots kept doing repeatedly. Its 'two two left' and its a standard phraseology so that the numbers don't get mixed up. I have been bashed up in training because of that and have never made that mistake again.
I think this depends on whether you are in the USA or not. American pilots and controllers are used to saying numbers like "twenty-two" or the callsign "Brickyard forty-two thirty-one," but it doesn't happen much in other countries where there are a variety of accents and/or English is not the first language. If I were the controller, I would've called Volaris "eight-eight-zero" just because that's what he, as a non-American, is used to hearing.
Nice job switching between compressed time playback and real time playback, depending on whether playing back a part of the event in real time really helps give the viewer a better feel for how things occurred. Like that you make it completely clear with the on-screen graphics when the video switches from one to the other.
Volaris is a horrible airline nowadays, disgusting service, really bad timings and now as far as I can see, deconcentrated pilots risking the lives of many others.
Holy shit, that was close! I'm not sure he even realised what he'd done to be honest, this shows that the other pilot and ATC was alert and doing their job well.
haven't flown the big dogs yet but I can confirm..when fatigue kicks in..it kicks in really hard..its quite a workload plus it being a controlled airport just adds to the pressure. add being to unfamiliar grounds..can be quite dangerous. but they all handled it well
Tower repeatedly applied an unnecessary public roasting, the guy made a mistake that was a bit bonehead, but adding “that guy” is in or out of your way is unclassy, he can hear it and he’s trying to refocus. Stay classy, people make mistakes and paperwork are for ones like that, it’s easy to roast pilots as your sitting in a chair, not suggesting atc is easy, just saying cut the guy some slack with the sarcasm. Foreigners find high density u.s airports intimidating enough, especially since controllers talk like they are firing planes off a carrier...
J Booj I thought the same and was going to make a similar comment, he was definitely rubbing the pilots nose in it,,,,glad I’m not the only one who noticed,,,,
....true, but Volaris was on a different frequency by this point - he was now with departures, whereas the ATC saying "that guy" was Tower, talking to the a/c that now had to wait for take-off, in case Volaris made a further alignment error. In short, Volaris didn't hear the "that guy" comment.
As I understood it, with "that guy" they did not mean Volaris, they meant the plane aborting the takeoff with the hot brakes. I saw the comment it as a way to reduce tension, not as a roasting.
Seems to me this is the Canarsie VOR for 13L, this is the same incident kennedy steve talked about in another video. It's a difficult, easily confusing approach if you don't pay attention, im guessing.
Now this is better compared to the previous video were I felt there were many seconds wasted. Not everything has to be in real time. As I said before, time is precious. Save viewers time and you will bring more of them (or to keep them) for sure. Some people started following this type of video because of the engaging communications compared to other videos that don't trim down time and are boring despite covering the same interesting situations.
Have to agree, with the exception of the few seconds, when everybody reacts to the mistake, real time is neither entertaining nor educational. On the other side, that few seconds of quick reaction are educational and a prime example of a job well done.
I think this one had a nice balance of time compression where appropriate. The visuals when switching were appreciated! Sometimes time compression leads to a misunderstanding of what's happening, as can be seen in the comments on past videos. It's a judgement call in each situation, IMHO. :)
How frequent is a VOR approach in JFK ? Given it is an busy international airport it's a bit of a shame that the ILS are not constantly used for precision approach. A VOR approach in busy airspace is questionable, and not leaning toward safety.
The "Canarsie Approach" is the colloquial name for the JFK VOR or GPS RWY 13L/R approach. It involves tracking a VOR and lead-in lights northeast up the coastline, then a turn, assuming visual contact with the airport, to the right to line up with either runway 13L or 13R, as assigned. It's a bit of an odd one, as it requires tracking perpendicular to the intended runway of landing, and a turn within 3nm of the field, but anything in the name of noise abatement. As you can tell by the name, you can track this either by VHF NAVAID or GPS. Many approaches, back when RNAV GPS came around, followed this scheme of "VOR or GPS". I assume they just say "VOR 13" because it's shorter and the first acronym in the official name of the approach. It's actually rather common to fly this approach, because some people don't like hearing the airplanes overhead.
When 13L and 13R are that widely separated... not much excuse to line up on the wrong one after reading back the correct runway assignment several times.
Not defending this crew, but the VOR 13L/13R is (IMHO) pretty crappy until one has flown it a few times. It is essentially a circle to land which many airlines only do under visual conditions. Take a look at this video czcams.com/video/SfaMBO2k7RM/video.html. See the rabbits (sequenced strobes) everywhere? Between 5:36 and 6:00, just as "Minimums, minimums" is called, see the approach lights at 1 o'clock? That is 13R. I'd be willing to bet this wasn't the first time a crew lined up for the wrong runway using this approach.
@ John H _I'd be willing to bet this wasn't the first time a crew lined up for the wrong runway._ It surely wasn't: czcams.com/video/ZW-ETmZU0u8/video.html or even worse, they landed on a wrong airport: czcams.com/video/sHMhClzfoi8/video.html
@ Barry A: I'm not familiar with “affordances.” But for me, following visual lead in lights and maneuvering a transport category aircraft at 800 feet in MVFR isn't my idea of fun.
@Trap Lord - Hating? I didn't see any hate, I thought the ATC was being very considerate with them. Probably figured they were tired or something and prone to make more mistakes so got them safely out of the way first.
No number to call given. No need. Mistakes happen, and follow up and resolution requests were all heeded. Human nature dictates, everyone makes mistakes, in every field of work (even brain surgery). A "number" doesn't always need to be called.
Very close call, could be catastrophic. I don't know how "R" and "L" can be mistaken, but ATC saw the mistake, and the plane on the ground also saw the incoming Volaris (good situational awareness).
Yes, but fatigue in combination with stress is not good for anyone. Maybe the coffee machine was broken or the food served was too bad. We don't know what caused the fatigue. Maybe he was in a divorce issue with his wife and hadn't had a good night's sleep.
@@thomasdahl3083 Fatigue also deteriorates a person's second language skills pretty quickly. It's temporary but it happens. Saying from experience of someone who speaks three languages.
I dont believe it was a language issue, pilot speaks english. They just got visually confused on the runways, 13L is a little bit hidden in the VOR approach, and the first one you see is 13R
they have to be. its suburban New York City. They are not owned by the airport authority but if they were only two people decide their rules of conduct. The governors in Albany and Trenton.
Woah, Volaris got it wrong twice! Also, the demand by APP for them to speak up seemed like it might have been because they were more than a little pissed at them (especially at a busy airport like JFK) and wanted no further miscommunication, and observe how wonderfully clearly Volaris (or anyone) can comm if they put some effort into it. What I find funny/puzzling though is the apparent difference in live vs. recording quality. Sometimes we hear nothing but noise, but they're understood. And also the digital compression seems way too high, or is that straight from the source? (I wouldn't think so if it's still analog technology used.)
Richard Herbst had it been closer it would be write down this number but being the volaris knew going around was safer than 2 low and slow turns he still had good judgement just might wanna teach him his right from left
It wasn't a CLOSE call. They were never less than 3 miles apart. He wasn't on short final, he was still a few miles out. Most likely one of the Volaris pilot would have noticed a plane lined up on the runway as they got close and would have gone around but that would have been a little too close for comfort. And there would be a report written up.
6:43 Voi880 wanted to Return land at 13 L, But Approach tell them, "Nope, I already advice you 22L, Don't want to have you repeating the same mistake again". IDK that's what I getting right now. Straight to 22L, didn't even question why.
Maybe i heard it wrong but a couple of times I thought I heard the tower controller say "clear to land" when the receiving aircraft was following another still in the air !!.
Jose if you ever hear a "phone number" call its the desk for the FAA ATC officer in charge of the shift to take a report of an accident, terror, or other reportable mishap. Basically if it was not a situation where you saw a plane in an unsafe location and wish to report it but you think the ATC is actually talking to the pilots in question the situation is messed up and you might lose your flight license for the incident.
Hey just an FYI the JFK VOR/DME 22L approach line is the third line that extends further south to the airport with the FAP RUSHY. The line VOI is lined up in the video is the ILS/LOC 22L. Just here to help! :D
Exactly! This is exactly the same situation that occurred in October 2010 when Aerogal 700 had been cleared to land on 13L and had read back 13L, but started to land on 13R, where a JetBlue flight had been cleared for takeoff. The tower controller for that incident was Steven Abraham ("Kennedy Steve"), and when, in an interview after his retirement, he was asked about emergencies he had handled, that was the one he described. The main difference between that episode and this one is that the Aerogal crew was quite slow on the uptake, whereas in this case the Volaris crew immediately recognized the danger of the situation and wisely initiated a go around on their own. Here is the earlier incident: czcams.com/video/ch7pcnN5GlQ/video.html
LiveATC is basically a network of enthusiasts who have radios set up in their homes or offices and live streaming what they pick up. Various conditions can affect the quality of the audio they receive, including weather, obstructions, quality of their technology. What the pilots and controllers hear is a lot better. A good analogy would be to compare a video of a sporting event shot by a fan in the stands on their phone vs. a live TV feed from a network.
Justin aaaaaah thank you. Are there any examples of how ATCs sound in the cockpit? Because pilots say it’s much better than what we hear on these recordings
I don't understand how a pilot could mistake 13 R for 13 L. They almost NEVER land on 13R. 13R is the longer of the 2 parallel Rwy 13s, I have flown this approach MANY times and (at least for me) it was VERY OBVIOUS to me which was which. If you look at the Approach Plate, There are many more approach lights for 13L than on 13R.
The Volaris pilot made a mistake, ATC rectify the situation and made report if necessary, fine. But really, berating and made smart remark about it on public comm? I count around 5 times that male ATC keep said it, some of it just sound really uncalled and unprofessional. *"Now that guy out of the way..."* *"The previous traffic... is now no longer a factor"* He even keep mention it when Volaris already taxiing, long after the incident happened...
Parallel runways, especially side by side, are only safe if everyone involved pays close attention. This one is still an ATC statistic but not the worst kind.
Volaris was flying missed approach on runway heading at under 400 feet (hadn't yet begun is left turn 100 heading); moreover he was exhibiting unpredictable behaviour... departing plane could have climbed directly into his path.
Ary S he probably made visual and thus descended pass minimums while flying towards 13R. Unfamiliar terrains for 2 tired pilots and mistaken were made. Everyone has repeated wrong runway once or twice, lining up for the wrong one is much rare but not unheard of.
Take a look at the charts for the VOR 13L approach and you'll see, it becomes visual at DMYHL, well before lining up with any runway, after which the person flying needs to take control and manually make a ~90 degree right turn to align with their proper runway. It's a notorious approach where misalignment needs to be carefully avoided.
So does this mean he didn’t actually have ILS for 13L set up? And was just hand flying? This pilot sounded a little sleepy. Long flight in that little airbus...
@@Scoofio1987 There is no ILS for Rwy 13 L/R. That track would conflict with traffic patterns for La Guardia. That's why they have to fly the strange Canarsie VOR/DME (now called the Parkway Visual) approach.
![[REAL ATC] American B757 has COMPLETE RADIO FAILURE out of Kennedy!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Wcq6KipBOro/mqdefault.jpg)
![[REAL ATC] American B757 has COMPLETE RADIO FAILURE out of Kennedy!](/img/tr.png)
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![[REAL ATC] Volaris A320 HIT BY LUGGAGE CART | STRONG WINDS!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t5jZFHxx1QU/mqdefault.jpg)
Volaris made a mistake and both controllers avoided the collision by instructing their airplanes to do what they had to do. Volaris goes around and Republic stays on the Ground. Great job!
See if you can get anything on the British Airways 288 Emergency Landing at PHX on 12/6/2017. There was video of flames coming out of the engine on takeoff.
He also readback wrongly once more the active runway. It seemed like looking at the charts while copying instructions.
He didn't know his flight number either. I hope he was a new pilot
drmayeda1 indeed a lot of volaris's first officers are pilots with not much experience, you can hear when the captain in command took over communications
Working on it.
"You're unreadable, sir."
Hold on...let me try wearing this headset thing.
I'm glad they had Victor on board. He probably had the vector.
ilikethisnamebetter Roger, Roger.
Lol.
No Clarence?
@@MrMiD.Life.Crisis
No. Clarence did not have clearance.
Want me to check the clearance Clarence?
Very smart of the controller to leave the volaris landing before releasing the other - allowed things to cool down (not only brakes I guess)
9:50 how to talk to pilot that doesn't speak English. Don't yell, don't repeat, just use simple words with a slow flow.
That’s what we refer as standard phraseology.
The pilot speaks English!
"Volaris, you're welcome for the help. *Now here's the number you need to call*"
The Volaris initiate the Go Around before ATC even call it. Good call.
When the EDV advice tower about the error, Volaris was already in the Go Around.
Great job by all. Kudos to the pilot as well. Sometimes we all make a mistake. We rely on each other to catch and fix problems. That pilot and maybe the chief pilots will be reviewing that in great detail and I doubt that pilot will make that mistake again. In the end the system worked and safety was maintained.
This whole series is outstanding. Thank you for creating these.
Kennedy didn't trust this pilot. Pilot knew he messed up too. So I don't consider this hating on him he wanted to make 100% sure the same 2 aircraft didn't have another conflict of interest. Once was more than enough.
David Michael • That's exactly right. A mistake that could have resulted in multiple fatalities and untold property damage was averted, and ATC instructed and monitored the best way possible in the end.
Regarding posts elsewhere about "haters" -
the I now believe some people are so victimized by their own shadows that it seems they would rather have a terrible tragedy play out just so no one's feelings were hurt in the discussions afterward.
You're better off using google maps with your videos because this "ATC" map is pretty useless. I'm an FAA controller (although not at New York approach), but we don't use airway lines like here or coastlines like here which just clutter the scope and would never be depicted. And why would you depict 31 localizers when they're using other runways here? If this is confusing and useless to an FAA controller it's going to be even more confusing and useless to others.
thank you kew. I respect your work very much.
Agree with this. To someone who just likes planes you may as well have a blank screen, it means nothing to me.
U ain't no controlla stop yo lying lol . Boi funni
Thanks for this analysis. I am always confused, trying to pick out distinct things. I fly sims and this is super confusing, I have no idea where I'm at.
naturally, no comment from VAS.
Captain of Volaris 880 had a rough day at work lol. Great video as usual.
Several instances of not-so-passive aggression by ATC when communicating with RJET reference the blundering traffic.
Noticed that they waited until Volaris had switched frequencies. cue NOW THAT THAT GUY'S OUT OF THE WAY
Female ATC was much more professional.
They all were.
I hate (ha. ha.) when people assume hate in others so I won't claim that about the ATC here. I do think it _may_ have been a little over-cautious to delay 4231's takeoff clearance with 880 still over 6 miles out. I think it also pushes the bounds of protocol slightly to basically point out 880 like that and hold everything until he's out of the way, so the big kids can play again. It might have been the right choice, but i don't think he needed to go into detail like that.
Agreed. Admittedly I'm not a pilot or ATC, but at 210mph 6 miles out it would've taken 1minute 43seconds before the Volaris touched down. You'd think 4231 would be well clear of the runway by then, right?
@@robbiehighfield9586 What about wake turbulence from taking off?
I totally have a serious problem with saying 'twenty two left' which the pilots kept doing repeatedly. Its 'two two left' and its a standard phraseology so that the numbers don't get mixed up. I have been bashed up in training because of that and have never made that mistake again.
Ankush Das a
I think this depends on whether you are in the USA or not. American pilots and controllers are used to saying numbers like "twenty-two" or the callsign "Brickyard forty-two thirty-one," but it doesn't happen much in other countries where there are a variety of accents and/or English is not the first language. If I were the controller, I would've called Volaris "eight-eight-zero" just because that's what he, as a non-American, is used to hearing.
@@philipmcniel4908 yes - if you say what the other person is expecting to hear, that alone makes it easier on everyone.
Good reply, Very good!!!👍✈✈
Nice job switching between compressed time playback and real time playback, depending on whether playing back a part of the event in real time really helps give the viewer a better feel for how things occurred. Like that you make it completely clear with the on-screen graphics when the video switches from one to the other.
Volaris is a horrible airline nowadays, disgusting service, really bad timings and now as far as I can see, deconcentrated pilots risking the lives of many others.
Am I the only one who can't see a thing on this video? The graphics are tiny...
Yes, you are the only one.
VASAviation - Well, let's blame my bad eyesight then
It was very hard to see this on mobil...which is not normal for most of these. I'm corrected to 20/15. 😉
Let’s just blame CZcams. They are updating/changing settings like every day.
Exactly! Staring at a blank screen for many, many minutes.
So much respect for good ATCs
I second that!! The Volaris pilots seemed to have the runways all confused.
Great video! Was waiting on this. That Kennedy ATC took operational security very seriously. He was hatting on volaris 😂😂
I approve of a go-around over a sidestep. Too close to the other rwy. Also jfk needs to stop doing a split at canarsie
Holy shit, that was close! I'm not sure he even realised what he'd done to be honest, this shows that the other pilot and ATC was alert and doing their job well.
Well shit! That was close! Didn't they have the RAAS system saying "approaching one-three-right" available ?
haven't flown the big dogs yet but I can confirm..when fatigue kicks in..it kicks in really hard..its quite a workload plus it being a controlled airport just adds to the pressure. add being to unfamiliar grounds..can be quite dangerous. but they all handled it well
Government supplied adderall to be taken by all pilots 15 minutes before final.
Tower repeatedly applied an unnecessary public roasting, the guy made a mistake that was a bit bonehead, but adding “that guy” is in or out of your way is unclassy, he can hear it and he’s trying to refocus. Stay classy, people make mistakes and paperwork are for ones like that, it’s easy to roast pilots as your sitting in a chair, not suggesting atc is easy, just saying cut the guy some slack with the sarcasm. Foreigners find high density u.s airports intimidating enough, especially since controllers talk like they are firing planes off a carrier...
J Booj I thought the same and was going to make a similar comment, he was definitely rubbing the pilots nose in it,,,,glad I’m not the only one who noticed,,,,
MEX is a busier airport than JFK in terms of aircraft movements...
....true, but Volaris was on a different frequency by this point - he was now with departures, whereas the ATC saying "that guy" was Tower, talking to the a/c that now had to wait for take-off, in case Volaris made a further alignment error. In short, Volaris didn't hear the "that guy" comment.
As I understood it, with "that guy" they did not mean Volaris, they meant the plane aborting the takeoff with the hot brakes. I saw the comment it as a way to reduce tension, not as a roasting.
TheDrivingPete oh he 100% meant the volaris. Way to be optimistic but I can assure you “that guy” is not the brickyard
The accompanying "map" was almost useless to tell this story... love listening to the team though.
Seems to me this is the Canarsie VOR for 13L, this is the same incident kennedy steve talked about in another video. It's a difficult, easily confusing approach if you don't pay attention, im guessing.
No, the Canarsie is a visual approach.
Loved the video man!
Thanks, Josh!
Anytime mate!!
Those passengers on the runway must’ve been so confused “why did we stop dude?”
Irony that the reporting point in New York is called ASALT?
If you are an air traffic controller and reading this, please slow down your instructions for the foreign pilots it will make everyone’s job easier
Why? The pilot did a correct readback, 1 3 LEFT, at 2:59 in the video, yet went for 13R. It is not a communication problem - it was an pilot error.
@@zagrebzebra at 2:59 wasnt the brickyard talking? the plane that missed the aproach was the volaris 880... i think
Radar trails! That was quick:) Thanks!
Now this is better compared to the previous video were I felt there were many seconds wasted. Not everything has to be in real time. As I said before, time is precious.
Save viewers time and you will bring more of them (or to keep them) for sure. Some people started following this type of video because of the engaging communications compared to other videos that don't trim down time and are boring despite covering the same interesting situations.
Good comment
Have to agree, with the exception of the few seconds, when everybody reacts to the mistake, real time is neither entertaining nor educational. On the other side, that few seconds of quick reaction are educational and a prime example of a job well done.
I always listen to (read) your suggestions and here it is. Always trying to improve the content :D
I think this one had a nice balance of time compression where appropriate. The visuals when switching were appreciated!
Sometimes time compression leads to a misunderstanding of what's happening, as can be seen in the comments on past videos. It's a judgement call in each situation, IMHO. :)
There was definitely a language issue. Great job to those controllers
There could also be a possibility for confusion because runways 13 L is 31 R as well.
The worse problem probably was picking up 13R visually and just turning final on it by mistake, since 13L would have been further along base.
How frequent is a VOR approach in JFK ? Given it is an busy international airport it's a bit of a shame that the ILS are not constantly used for precision approach. A VOR approach in busy airspace is questionable, and not leaning toward safety.
The "Canarsie Approach" is the colloquial name for the JFK VOR or GPS RWY 13L/R approach. It involves tracking a VOR and lead-in lights northeast up the coastline, then a turn, assuming visual contact with the airport, to the right to line up with either runway 13L or 13R, as assigned. It's a bit of an odd one, as it requires tracking perpendicular to the intended runway of landing, and a turn within 3nm of the field, but anything in the name of noise abatement. As you can tell by the name, you can track this either by VHF NAVAID or GPS. Many approaches, back when RNAV GPS came around, followed this scheme of "VOR or GPS". I assume they just say "VOR 13" because it's shorter and the first acronym in the official name of the approach. It's actually rather common to fly this approach, because some people don't like hearing the airplanes overhead.
They did better than Air Canada.
So much hate, I forgot everyone is a b747 pilot in this channel.
When 13L and 13R are that widely separated... not much excuse to line up on the wrong one after reading back the correct runway assignment several times.
What do you mean, F Huber? Worse things have happened: czcams.com/video/sHMhClzfoi8/video.html
Sarcasm is inimical to Safety👀
0:48 Why are we staring at this blank screen for so very, very long? 3:32 What video? There's nothing to watch! 9:31 _seven miles in trail..._
VOR/ DME... how old is this? Must be recent, they’re using Line Up and Wait vs Position and hold... I game tomorrow heard VOR DME in years...
There's a reason they pixelate the logo on the tail.
Hahaha that's a good one!
Probably is a Japanese Adult Airline
Volaris used to give out free Krispy Kreme donuts about ten years ago.
Everyone makes mistakrs, not the best day for Volaris
Not defending this crew, but the VOR 13L/13R is (IMHO) pretty crappy until one has flown it a few times. It is essentially a circle to land which many airlines only do under visual conditions.
Take a look at this video czcams.com/video/SfaMBO2k7RM/video.html. See the rabbits (sequenced strobes) everywhere? Between 5:36 and 6:00, just as "Minimums, minimums" is called, see the approach lights at 1 o'clock? That is 13R.
I'd be willing to bet this wasn't the first time a crew lined up for the wrong runway using this approach.
@ John H _I'd be willing to bet this wasn't the first time a crew lined up for the wrong runway._
It surely wasn't: czcams.com/video/ZW-ETmZU0u8/video.html
or even worse, they landed on a wrong airport: czcams.com/video/sHMhClzfoi8/video.html
@ Barry A: I'm not familiar with “affordances.”
But for me, following visual lead in lights and maneuvering a transport category aircraft at 800 feet in MVFR isn't my idea of fun.
Almost exactly the same situation occurred in October 2010. czcams.com/video/ch7pcnN5GlQ/video.html Tower controller in that case was Kennedy Steve.
The infamous CANARSIE approach...
Reading the comments on here from all of the 'keyboard experts' is always very entertaining.
That JFK tower guy is hating on the Volaris
Trap Lord if he almost ruined my airspace I'd be pissed as well
pretty sure he's just racist against mexicans
Trap Lord because his mistake could have killed people, and created extra work for them.
Alan Jackson no, the tower guy is a Trump voter
@Trap Lord - Hating? I didn't see any hate, I thought the ATC was being very considerate with them. Probably figured they were tired or something and prone to make more mistakes so got them safely out of the way first.
Great video
Thanks for watching :)
Volaris 880 I have a number here for you, let me know when you have the time to write it down thanks
“Im the schmuck that landed on the taxiway...”
no nova. JFK ATC knows a pizza joint they can hit up during their layover.
No number to call given. No need. Mistakes happen, and follow up and resolution requests were all heeded. Human nature dictates, everyone makes mistakes, in every field of work (even brain surgery). A "number" doesn't always need to be called.
Im sure volaris filed a safety report
I wondered about this part too.
Liked the maps with the track paths better.
*****************
VOL880 needs some pilot training adjustment.
awesome video
Nomal day at the office!
well, thats why its called 'non-precision' approach lol
Very close call, could be catastrophic. I don't know how "R" and "L" can be mistaken, but ATC saw the mistake, and the plane on the ground also saw the incoming Volaris (good situational awareness).
I know that English can be hard if it is not your native language BUT; it is the international language for pilots!
Yes, but fatigue in combination with stress is not good for anyone. Maybe the coffee machine was broken or the food served was too bad. We don't know what caused the fatigue. Maybe he was in a divorce issue with his wife and hadn't had a good night's sleep.
@@thomasdahl3083 Fatigue also deteriorates a person's second language skills pretty quickly. It's temporary but it happens. Saying from experience of someone who speaks three languages.
I dont believe it was a language issue, pilot speaks english. They just got visually confused on the runways, 13L is a little bit hidden in the VOR approach, and the first one you see is 13R
Waiting for 'call company'
8:01
JFK 13R TWR: *Volaris 880 is landing on 22L... Well shit, 22R is intersecting with my RWY, better hold that departure*
At that point I lost it xD
So...NO Pilot Deviation and a phone number with facebook and instagram this time???
The volaris pilot sounded distracted in many parts of his transmission maybe he was just tired i’m glad they landed safe without mayor issues
Maybe they should change the Runway designations to 13A and 13B . Much less confusion.
How so?
@@jakolu Guess not ...dumb idea.
No excuse for the valaris pilot to make that mistake no excuse at all.
Love the new visuals!!!
Does Volaris train their pilots on FSX MP Steam edition?
I am not a pilot and I am not playing FSX. So pach your sh*t and move on.
Reminds me of the cab driver I had today :). Why so zoomed in for the whole video?
Not the whole video.
Just a suggestion but 3/4 of the video is zoomed in too much and can't see the Volaris go around.
It's not because of the zoom.
Man those r the fucking coolest controllers
they have to be. its suburban New York City. They are not owned by the airport authority but if they were only two people decide their rules of conduct. The governors in Albany and Trenton.
I didn’t know an Airbus A319 could go that far. Is that one of the NEOs or something?
Didn't A319s fly full business from London to NY? It's 2000nm from Mexico City, versus 3400nm from London
Lmfao this guy still got the readback wrong after he went arround with APP saying VOR 13L approach instead of 22L 😂....
I know. Perhaps he needs retraining.
Right I caught that as well. Its a good thing landing isn't very important in airplanes😞
Mexican had to be...
Kitsune932 We don't need people like you in the Aviation community , idiot
casual guy 😂
Woah, Volaris got it wrong twice!
Also, the demand by APP for them to speak up seemed like it might have been because they were more than a little pissed at them (especially at a busy airport like JFK) and wanted no further miscommunication, and observe how wonderfully clearly Volaris (or anyone) can comm if they put some effort into it.
What I find funny/puzzling though is the apparent difference in live vs. recording quality. Sometimes we hear nothing but noise, but they're understood. And also the digital compression seems way too high, or is that straight from the source? (I wouldn't think so if it's still analog technology used.)
How come no "Volaris 880 I have a number for you to call"?
Richard Herbst it’s not consider a dangerous call by FAA so it wasn’t an accident or incident.. weird but true
Richard Herbst had it been closer it would be write down this number but being the volaris knew going around was safer than 2 low and slow turns he still had good judgement just might wanna teach him his right from left
If separation was maintained then I don't think they are required to write it up.
After going on national news, they might want info on the situation
It wasn't a CLOSE call. They were never less than 3 miles apart. He wasn't on short final, he was still a few miles out. Most likely one of the Volaris pilot would have noticed a plane lined up on the runway as they got close and would have gone around but that would have been a little too close for comfort. And there would be a report written up.
6:43
Voi880 wanted to Return land at 13 L, But Approach tell them, "Nope, I already advice you 22L, Don't want to have you repeating the same mistake again". IDK that's what I getting right now.
Straight to 22L, didn't even question why.
Maybe i heard it wrong but a couple of times I thought I heard the tower controller say "clear to land" when the receiving aircraft was following another still in the air !!.
Appears standard practice in the U S.
I love your videos where can I learn the vocabulary that the control tower And the pilots use???
Just watch these videos. I think it's the best way.
It's aeronautical phraseology
Thanks for the link
Jose if you ever hear a "phone number" call its the desk for the FAA ATC officer in charge of the shift to take a report of an accident, terror, or other reportable mishap. Basically if it was not a situation where you saw a plane in an unsafe location and wish to report it but you think the ATC is actually talking to the pilots in question the situation is messed up and you might lose your flight license for the incident.
No possible pilot deviation?
the Harrison Ford Approach is really becoming more popular
He made a basic mistake of mistaking the rollout side road for a runway.
Taxiway.
at 9.42 he said 22R not 22L
Good God man, do you not know your right from your left?
Am I hearing this right during the final they switched pilots if not flight crew?
they seemed to swap PF and PNF yes
@@karlosbricks2413 I thought so
I wouldn't let people know who created those graphics lol
Doe's ATC not to file a report on thistle?
No phone number to call?Possible pilot deviation?
Negative
Hey just an FYI the JFK VOR/DME 22L approach line is the third line that extends further south to the airport with the FAP RUSHY. The line VOI is lined up in the video is the ILS/LOC 22L. Just here to help! :D
Is this pilot deviation? And if yes, where's the number?
No, it's not.
As the Volaris pilot called go around and didnt actually comprimise 22R why cancel the othe planes take off clearance?
They would encounter midair
To all my Spanish speaking Pilots, it's V-O-R not Vorrr...
Aerogal 700 v2 I guess..
Exactly! This is exactly the same situation that occurred in October 2010 when Aerogal 700 had been cleared to land on 13L and had read back 13L, but started to land on 13R, where a JetBlue flight had been cleared for takeoff. The tower controller for that incident was Steven Abraham ("Kennedy Steve"), and when, in an interview after his retirement, he was asked about emergencies he had handled, that was the one he described. The main difference between that episode and this one is that the Aerogal crew was quite slow on the uptake, whereas in this case the Volaris crew immediately recognized the danger of the situation and wisely initiated a go around on their own. Here is the earlier incident: czcams.com/video/ch7pcnN5GlQ/video.html
DAMN!
Wonder what the reason the pilots gave the passengers for the go around
Why are some aircraft radios unreadable? Does this have to do something with the recording technology used in ATC recordings?
liveATC receivers are not co-located with FAA ATC receivers. A building or other obstruction may be between the unreadable aircraft and the receiver.
LiveATC is basically a network of enthusiasts who have radios set up in their homes or offices and live streaming what they pick up. Various conditions can affect the quality of the audio they receive, including weather, obstructions, quality of their technology. What the pilots and controllers hear is a lot better.
A good analogy would be to compare a video of a sporting event shot by a fan in the stands on their phone vs. a live TV feed from a network.
Justin aaaaaah thank you. Are there any examples of how ATCs sound in the cockpit? Because pilots say it’s much better than what we hear on these recordings
I think Volaris had mic up theirs as well...
No links in comments, but look up Stevo Kinevo. He's pulling audio straight from the headset in the cockpit, ATC included.
400ft OMG.....
I don't understand how a pilot could mistake 13 R for 13 L. They almost NEVER land on 13R. 13R is the longer of the 2 parallel Rwy 13s, I have flown this approach MANY times and (at least for me) it was VERY OBVIOUS to me which was which. If you look at the Approach Plate, There are many more approach lights for 13L than on 13R.
So how do you explain that this issue has arisen may times in the past ? Including local guys ?
Where is the phone call number? Disappointed :)
The Volaris pilot made a mistake, ATC rectify the situation and made report if necessary, fine.
But really, berating and made smart remark about it on public comm?
I count around 5 times that male ATC keep said it, some of it just sound really uncalled and unprofessional.
*"Now that guy out of the way..."*
*"The previous traffic... is now no longer a factor"*
He even keep mention it when Volaris already taxiing, long after the incident happened...
That was actually Rushy Fix not Rosly
400 and then on wrong rwy, lol!
Parallel runways, especially side by side, are only safe if everyone involved pays close attention. This one is still an ATC statistic but not the worst kind.
Parallel runways, especially side by side? Aren’t all parallel runways side by side? Because that’s what parallel means?
Good thing that ATC corrected the "good morning" to "good afternoon", that mistake could have been disastrous!
Why did they cancel the takeoff at 4:35 ?
Volaris was flying missed approach on runway heading at under 400 feet (hadn't yet begun is left turn 100 heading); moreover he was exhibiting unpredictable behaviour... departing plane could have climbed directly into his path.
and I thought the plane computer already set for the correct runway but why the plane didnt follow the computer ?
Ary S he probably made visual and thus descended pass minimums while flying towards 13R. Unfamiliar terrains for 2 tired pilots and mistaken were made. Everyone has repeated wrong runway once or twice, lining up for the wrong one is much rare but not unheard of.
Take a look at the charts for the VOR 13L approach and you'll see, it becomes visual at DMYHL, well before lining up with any runway, after which the person flying needs to take control and manually make a ~90 degree right turn to align with their proper runway. It's a notorious approach where misalignment needs to be carefully avoided.
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
I came for 4:13
and so did you ;)
06:55 Stewardess asks captain if he wants Sprite with his double gin.
So does this mean he didn’t actually have ILS for 13L set up? And was just hand flying?
This pilot sounded a little sleepy. Long flight in that little airbus...
No, this is a VOR Canarise approach. No ILS available for anyone.
VASAviation -
Oh ya,I’m sorry, I thought he was cleared for a ILS approach. Makes sense...
Oh I get it, he's a sleepy Mexican. Lol
@@Scoofio1987 There is no ILS for Rwy 13 L/R. That track would conflict with traffic patterns for La Guardia. That's why they have to fly the strange Canarsie VOR/DME (now called the Parkway Visual) approach.