Are Expats in Trouble with Thailand's New Tax Laws?
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- čas přidán 19. 02. 2024
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For me…it just means I won’t spend more than 6 months in Thailand a year.
Yea agree. I think this is going to hurt Thailand. Maybe in a year or two they except tourist visas at least from residency. If I can't get a driver's license why am I getting taxed.
Me too. I retire in March and already have my days mapped out. Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Philippines, Bali and Malaysia will get month a piece of my money.
@@mcconnellpeter Hey..that's my plan too! It's a much better idea!
Same here, won't spend more than 6 months a year in Thailand.
Stay 150 days maximum in Thailand to avoid Count Taxman!
4 months Thailand, 4 Philippines, 4 Vietnam.
5 Months in Thailand, 3 Months in Philippines, 3 Months in Cambodia and 1 Month in home country to do taxes.
ATM and don’t stay over 180 days a year
Yes. Me 6 weeks in my South Pacific island, 1 week Japan on the way, 8 weeks Bangkok including a short visa run.
2 weeks other countries like NZ and US
Rinse and repeat...
I bring cash that I change at superrich at 0.3/0.5% fees, including some USD and JPY ...
I would spend 3 months in Vietnam (90 day visa), 3 months in Thailand, 3 in Philippines, 3 months in US/Home Country.
Sounds great but how much are you going to be paying for airfares Visas all that needs to added in to your costs agaist the tax. It's a hard one to work out I'm sure I'm in the clear as I'm on a Penison from Australia and we have a Treaty with Thailand on Double Tax but I'm going to have to look right into it
This is the "FOREIGNERS GET OUT" tax
no its not, thailand wants and needs ferang
@@user-nl9me3er7w Yep. After the foreigners make enough of a mass exodus that they lose billions in revenue, THEN they'll undo it. That's how these idiotic "double taxation" schemes always work out
@@user-nl9me3er7w Then why implement this onerous tax law? The Thai government is shooting itself in the foot.
You needed this to tell you Foreigners are only welcome for their money?
They can't even figure out how to collect the 300 baht tourist tax, they'll never figure this out.
So they exempting "wealthy individuals" but tax everyone else. That sounds like a real fair policy Thailand!
Corruption at its finest.
They don’t want to scare away the wealthy who spend lots of money there. They want to don’t mind chasing away the poor expats.
ACTUALLY IT SOUNDS JUST LIKE ANY WESTERN NATION THE WORKERS PAY THE TAX THE RULING CLASS GETS TAX BRAKES JUST ASK TRUMP HOW IT WORKS
@@DeusExMachina50 CORRUPTION IS TIME IMMORTAL BUT THE AMERICANS HAVE REFINED IT INTO A FINE ART MASTERPIECE EVERYTHING IN AMERICA IS CORRUPT OR CORRUPTED FROM THE PRESIDENTCY TO THE TAXI DRIVER AND EVERYTHING IN-BETWEEN PERFECT EXAMPLE THE ELECTION OF TRUMP TO THE OVAL OFFICE AND HE NEVER EVEN HAD THE MAJORITY OF AMERICAN'S SUPPORTING HIM AND HE'S A PROVEN CROOK RAPIST. DRAFT DODGER TAX AVOIDER AND THIS IS A PATRIOTIC AMERICAN REALLY GOOD SET OF VALUES AND MORALS FOR A NATIONAL LEADER WITH HIS FINGER ON THE RED BUTTON WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU YANKS THINKING
@@KenHubbard-jz1vq Do you think any politicians in Washington are different? Corporations and their lobbyists run the government, regardless of who's the president.
Section 41 has just made it more expensive to maintain a greedy Thai girlfriend. All that extra money bought in to pay for sick buffalo, gold jewellery, sick parents medical bills, 3 motorbikes, a house in the village etc is going to get taxed at 25%
25%??? Try 30-35% is the upper rates. If I was liable 25% is how much I d be paying on my 1.4mil Bt pa
Dude, that was very funny, and true !. Made me LOL. :)))
At least the "greedy" (and lovely) thai girl will not apply the 15% tax (automatic at first bath) if you don't "declare" ;-) Think about it : girl bank has no tax.
@@dominiquelaurain6427 If you mean transferring the money you send here through their accounts, they will then be liable for the tax.
@@dominiquelaurain6427 perhaps the greedy and lovely Thai girl should be told if she wants to obtain what she asks for that she has to pay any extra tax due - that will make her think twice 😵💫😵💫😵💫
Welp, I was prepared to retire in Thailand and pump large quantities of capital into the economy. No longer. Sayonara, Thailand
Pump your money into a less racist and greedy place....
Same here but this is concerning
@emujoe2966 Yep, that the hint, The Thai Government don't want foreigners. They love love love love Foreigner's money though. If you're not into the red light scene, there's so many better countries to live, many even cheaper too. Less racism, Greed, tax and dual pricing, too.
Plenty rich Thais that want a transfer to their offshore Seychelles account, Baht cash you pick up in Thailand and deposite slowly to your Thai TMB bank account, or buy some assets in Thailand with Baht cash in your name.....
and need say bye bye own house, good wife, childrens,new car, etc all other what has buy before stay live in thailand good and not have homecountry anythink last 10 year. destroy many family and life thats idiot TAX
Thai Gov taking a big risk in losing many expats who earn income / and pensions earning won't like this at all. If you combine the Poor Air Quality and other rising issues, could be the straw that broke the tourists' back. Vietnam has recently instituted a similar tax on money coming into Viet, but they call it a "Global Tax", goes from 15% to 45%, cheewawa. Philippines starting to look better again. Thai gov seems desperate for revenues, but in doing what they're planning, could put a real damper on tourism and real estate. Also I believe they want to keep those "tax credits" murky so they offer the gov flexibility and ability to interpret in the gov's favor. For those of us considering retiring in Thailand, starting to look murky and doubtful.
taxation is not for tourists. Its for immigrants.
Hey Lee, could you please do a recap because I couldn’t understand him at all.
turn on the closed caption
Yep it was a bit gobbledegook ish and needs Clarifying...even the Sub titles couldn't keep up with this Guy
play at 0.75
Tell him to remove his buttplug
I thought this was supposed to be in English. (?)
Every dollar brought in to Thailand is spent in Thailand. All the hotels, bars, street vendors are going to suffer from this. I myself am going to have to cut back on all my spending. It’s a very bad money grab that’s going to come back to bite them.
"Every dollar brought in to Thailand is spent in Thailand. " That may be true for tourists but they aren't even affected by these changes. Foreign retirees alone have to keep something 800k thai baht in their bank accounts forever that they can't touch. After one friend decided to move to Philippines he took that whole 800k out and moved. If you are retiree or expat and spend every single dollar in Thailand you probably have a lot in common with your own government. Spending like their is no tomorrow.
@jinparksoul I think Ron was (or could accurately have been) referring to expat retirees. Lots don’t bring in much beyond monthly spending money EXCEPT the 800k baht holding tax (400k for spousal) visa requirement. Many/ most don’t trust thai banks with their life savings or investment portfolios. So see, I think what Ron and yourself are saying amounts to the same thing. He’s not necessarily saying, as you assume, expats to Thailand spend like sailors on shore leave! For many expats their money is back home or elsewhere, like maybe Singapore where you can trust it’s still yours, w/d at will, etc. Thus, apart from the visas required 400k/800k, they spend what they bring in, likely monthly. How much more than that 800kbt did that friend have within Thailand and take with him from Thailand to the Philippines? I’ll bet not much beyond what he might have had in assets, like condo, car, scooter, and sold to cash prior to his exit. Maybe same-same
@@DM-qg4ysSaying "every dollar" with that understanding is like saying you can have any flavor of ice cream you desire as long as its chocolate. Its decimates the meaning of "every dollar brought in" to the degree that it makes it sound like a joke.
It's not unreasonable for Thailand to tax global income (most countries do), however, their tax rates are not competitive at all.
If it were a flat 15% I'd go for it. But they basically have commie-style progressive taxation like much of the Western world.
@@DM-qg4ys Retirees spend what they have where they live. Just the usual government greed and strong arming of the people. We have global tyranny because we have global government behind the curtain, and the plan is for the tyranny to ramp up beyond recognition the next couple years.
What ever made Thailand attractive to foreigners is starting to disappear thru government Bureaucracy. Pensioners will be OK and bring in money that way but I can see a lot of people just leaving their money in foreign bank accounts. Too complicated to comply with laws.
They don’t want foreigners anyway
The attraction was that it was cheap, there's now at least 60 countries in the world cheaper these days, without greed and racism too. Thailand wins when it comes to good cheap food, that's about it.....
them little hos
What I could hear is: American pensions are safe. But what is with all the others?
@@pielmeierdieter social security should be safe since it has been taxed already. Pension is not
This entire tax thing definitely has had me reconsidering my current plans to retire to Thailand ever since the news hit. What a sh#$ show.
Bring back the 0 visa or Thailand is on the way out.
Same here
@@colinbaker485duck it, I’m going to the Philippines 🇵🇭
@@christiancarrera4476 I couldn't decide between the Philippines and Thailand, but now, they made my mind up for me.
Thanks Forrest, have now heard a few tax advisors in Thailand give the same interpretation of Section 41. As a retiree, I will go where I am treated best in terms of immigration and tax law. Thailand has now become too expensive and unattractive as a retirement destination. Must maintain $800,000 of depreciating Baht in a Thai bank account earning almost no interest, expensive health insurance, annual visa renewal and now taxing retirement income earned on lifetime savings. I will continue to visit but will not expose my retirement income to Thai income tax under any circumstances or be compelled to register as a "tax resident". Expect much less foreign income to flow into Thailand. If not a Thai citizen, employed in Thailand or running a business there, you should not be required to pay Thai income tax period. Tax residency for foreign retirees, how absurd.
You want to USE the Thai services, and not pay for it.
@@billjohnson7904 What services would I be receiving that I don’t pay for exactly? If you’re willing to pay tax on foreign sourced retirement income just for the sake of living in Thailand by all means go ahead.
@@AntiTheismForever The services of the ENTIRE COUNTRY. Just like any other country you have to pay TAX on TOTAL WORLDWIDE income. But you guys think you can scam Thailand.
How else will they care for children abandoned by foreign fathers? I mean, the only reason men have any financial advantage over women is because they can't have children.
USA taxes its citizens on world wide income. The issue is with tax treaty handling. Most will have some sort of agreement where income taxes in Country 1 is then applied in Country 2 but you provide proof of tax payment in Country 1 ie you paid 10% tax in usa and then Country 2 has a 20% tax on that income you end up paying 10% more. But if there is no tax treaty then you could be paying 10% in Country 1 and 20% in country 2 which means a 30% tax
After 10 years in Thailand - me and my wife have already given up on this country. We are moving next year
Where are you considering, may I ask?
@@cabowabo5557 south of europe
@@cabowabo5557 South Europe
Where? To the moon to avoid taxes? 😂
@@nanam9179 theres around 20 tax free countries on earth.. but yeah🤷♂️
180 day rule is quasi universal. No surprise there. I think the issue is there should be distinction between income and savings. People living off savings should not be taxed on transfers.
Looks like BKK condos will go on sale soon.. 50% discount?
😂😂😂😂
who idiot want live at BKK lot better have go live north thailand small city.
Nope, when demand drops in Thailand then Thai greed gets displayed in full. Expect condo prices to double, Thai logic.
@@What7779😂 that Thai condo price will go into free fall. Who will pay full price for something they only use 50% of the time?
@@TerryAShaw Anywhere else in the world I would understand your point and agree. The reality is that most of the Foreigners who go there are mentally damaged or have addiction problems, and also easily manipulated. They will always buy those condos and invest their last penny into Thailand, often manipulated by their Isaan wifes into doing so. Simps are flooding into Thailand daily, that's the sad thing about it.
The critical thing you forgot for the interview is a crystal ball to gaze into. The attempt to close a loophole will cause Thailand to lose billions of baht.
Form what I can understand, for a US citizen, according to this attorney, unless the income is strictly from the SSN, they will tax you. Pay tax but get no benefits = extortion. This country only see the tree and not the forest. Very short-sighted in their part.
It's the most money obsessed place in the world, what do you expect?!
I thought you were talking about the US, after all, you're not living there but they literally own your life, like a slave. Remember, they're the ONLY country that does that. Thailand doesn't try to enslave its citizens that live and work in the USA, those people ONLY pay taxes in the country they live.
If you are making money from working, you will be subject to tax, but any taxes you already paid in the US will be credited. Unless the total rate in Thailand is higher than the US (doubtful) you won't pay taxes.
Hmm, last time I was in Thailand, I used the airport, the freeway, took showers, used the bathroom , electric grid… pretty sure that’s a benefit provided by taxes.
@particleinthewave8378 but I pay those taxes at the 7-Eleven and the HOA every month. I drive a car and pay taxes at the pump. I shop at the market, and I pay taxes at the register. I register my car every year and pay taxes at the DMV. I visit the national parks and pay double or triple amounts, which I consider a foreigner tax. I have top-tier medical and auto insurance so as not to burden the country. Everything I do here, I pay tax in one form or another.
I just blew a fuse in my language cognition processing module.
I had to turn on english captions and set playback speed down to .75 and even then it was difficult
LOL
Giggity
😬
I'm starting to think that Thailand wants people come visit. Spend their money and leave. If you stay longer than 180 days it might cost you even more
They are just opportunists, they grab money if they have a chance without thinking too much about the long term consequences like how it would impact the real estate market, how it would impact the local business that serves expats etc.
That's all they ever wanted, lol. Foreigners like to kid themselves thinking its more than what it is. It's really not!
I will retire next year and planned to do so in Thailand. With that new tax I will definitely search for a different place. I think that tax is a good example for scare off retirees
and this have big joke to thailand. thailand kicked own head this idiot TAX case.
Maybe done on purpose.
So if Foreigners must now pay tax in Thailand then surely they will be eligible for the Universal Coverage Scheme of free health care .
It would not be fair to have to pay tax towards free government healthcare and not be allowed to use it .
double TAx have out off law not can collect TAX if has payed TAX you homecountry.
Taxation without Representation
@@mattivirta Wrong, you need to go and read the Bi lateral Tax Agreement between the 2 countries. Its all very clear..
@@user-dj9nl2vs9x not can read, not understand english good.
@@mattivirta Is this based on fact, or wishful conjecture? Have you read any official papers or the DTA that exists between Thailand and your own country? No!! Otherwise you would no better. There is no such an agreement between my country and Thailand, which prohibits tax from being deducted TWICE.
This is a real bummer. I'm an American eligible for the LTR work from Thailand visa and was looking forward to applying. Based on his interpertation, I wouldn't be exempt and be taxed by both the USA and Thailand. That's an automatic no for me.
IRS has Foreign earned income exclusion FEIE 0% tax up to 120k. you dont pay double tax as long as you file in home country. run it through a llc or trust and medicare/ SS is also 0%
@@user-dy2qq5wh4b People say this but $16,000/yr in social security/medicare tax you get hit with is not "nothing" to most of us. Yes I'm living overseas and now get out of FEDERAL TAX mostly, but that was only 50% of my tax bill to begin with.
@@user-dy2qq5wh4b You have to be out of the USA for at least 330 days before foreign exclusion is approved.
Not quite, since US and Thailand has tax treaty b/w the two. It is on Thai sides that is kinda vague
America has a tax treaty so not sure why this is not discussed
There is absolutely ZERO % chance I'll spend more than 180 days in Thailand going forward. There is no need to make my life more complicated when there are other location options in this world.
Correct, a ticket to Vietnam is only 50-75 Euro... Da Nang is great and the beer is super cheap! ... ;-)
It's all good and fun to hop between countries while you are not too old.
But it gets harder and harder to uproot your life every year when you are 70+ years old.
Imagine yourself hopping countries when you are 80 😮
yes no problems IF stay less than 180 day, go out and how long need be out of thaialnd can go back and next go in start new 180 day period, smart possiple can go to thailand first time stay only less than 180 day, move all you money at visa 800 000 B and house buy money etc, to thai bank, then go out off thailand no go TAX, but need know how long need be out of thailand can go back and no take TAX before move in money, and go to tax if send thailand only less than 1000$/month retiree money. can live good and not need pay income TAX. or what papers need be not take tax because many country not need pay TAX twice.
I was wondering the same go in August bring all money and you are in tax exempt Status. The new year starts you are all in so there is no more money coming in just living on the money I brought in
@marcelkamermans Funny you mention Da Nang bc my wife and I just booked a nice two week vacation to Vietnam to explore alternative countries to retire in. We'll be flying into Da Nang to visit Hoi An as well.
Best move is ignore the law like all the other laws they don't enforce. If they actually come to you and require you pay then decide if it's worth it and if not then leave.
Sounds like advice that you shouldnt follow Gross and ignorant.
Yes, break the law in a foreign country you don't speak the language.
Are you suggesting this advice from a foreign prison?
you don't break the law by ignoring or not doing anything. I do the same. Don't panic, don't over-react. We don't know how in practice this new tax law will be handled. So right now it's best to just ignore.
@@robertbachmann8141 Until you get caught and start crying like a baby
@@ariesmarsexpress lol…never heard of defi have you chum? Bank…what bank accounts 😊
I have to believe this is going to affect the real estate market. If you buy a condo, build a house or even buy a car you are going to have to transfer a bunch of extra cash. Getting taxed on that could be a significant expense.
easily solved. Dont come to Thailand for more than 6 months. Transfer all you want. Thats what im going to do. Im paying for a house now.
@@nickmaidment Some of us actually live in Thailand
Yep absolutely !!
@@nickmaidment Foolish. What happens when the foreign buyer market collapses?? You ll be stuck with it
I considered buying a condo in thailand I just won't bother now.
I bet there's thousands of other people just like me, Who can't be bothered with the red type all the hassle.
This interview raises more questions than answers. In short, they don't know how this will play out.
5555 Thank you.
@@polupopus5836
Bollocks. It's as clear as mud. Typical Thai style!
Thank you. You saved me 17min of my life..
His comment about Wise makes no sense. If Wise transfers money into Thai bank account, why will it be not be considered transfer? I see only a few ways to go around this... 1) Get LTR Visa 2) Use Bank ATM from US Bank and withdraw cash without transferring to Thai Bank 3) Stay less than 180 days in Thailand.
Say you want to bring in 1000 baht from the US and there is someone else in Thailand who wants to send 1000 baht to US. Wise matches you so the other guy sends 1000 baht to you in thailand and you give him 1000 baht in US. So no international transfer happens just 2 local transfers.
It makes a bit of sense in that Wise has bank accounts in Thailand and sums are transferred from their local bank account to yours, so it's not seen as incoming international transfer but rather a domestic transfer.
@@nicholasuloth6530wow.. didn’t know that’s how wise worked?? I thought you deposit money into your wise account from US bank and wise makes the transfer to the Thai bank.. I’ll look into it. Thanks
only makes sense if youre spending from a wise CARD or a wirex revolut etc. So the foreign banking institution makes the conversion when you spend Thai baht directly from your balance of pounds dollars etc so technically its not money that has been transfered into Thailand though a bank account, financial institution
-Its very simple you use your wise debit card in an ATM .Do not transfer it into your Thai bank account or the powers that be will tax it as its all recorded at the bank .Their are international laws of privacy , so the transaction of your wise card at an ATM cannot be recognised , banks are not allowed also to give any information regarding the transaction of a ATM card transaction by the user . they will not give information of who you are , where you come from and how much you've withdrawn ,all transactions are encrypted and secure and so every time you withdraw your cash from the ATM you are anonymous .
I taught two years at a Thai government school. When I went to Revenue Department to get a form showing the taxes I paid so I could renew my work permit, I learned that the school director was pocketing my tax money instead of sending it to the Revenue Department. The Revenue Department called the school about my issue and when I returned to school the next day, I was fired. The point is, the wealthiest Thais and most corrupt Thai government officials pay NO TAXES. If you agree to allow the Thai Revenue Department to siphon off a single dollar of your foreign retirement income or SS income, you are a fool.
Last sentence🎯
Taxes originally were meant for the rich, but they found ways to escape. So it ended up lower and middle income are paying.
It was never meant for the rich.
It was instituted by them for them.
Thank you both for your time and posting. Portugal just got rid of their 10-year tax exemption for expects.
The most important thing I almost never see in these youtube and web forum discussions is how, if you want to be compliance, the resources and exact steps a foreigner should take to do so. I know someone that tried to get a tax id and was turned away because they didn't have a work permit and the office didn't know how to handle or process the request in that case.
exactly.... they don't even know how to enforce it...
spot on comment. there is just about zero actual info out there,- for example at immigration office where anyhow would need to report every 90 days-, giving foreigners the steps to take to comply.
My basic understanding is that they made this law to close the loophole, this new tax law is only applicable to assessable income. If your income is not assessable it shouldnt be taxed, if you are taxed in your home country, or if your money is in a tax sheltered account it should not be taxed by Thailand.
But you have to engage the services of a Thai tax lawyer to help you demonstrate this non assessable income in your returns when previously you did not. For many this will be a bridge too far thus will chose to stay for less than 180 days
Lawyer's here in Thailand are expensive.
So that adds more cost over and above the tax.
And you can be sure that the lawyer's are going rip off the farangs.
For sure, I am no expert on Thailand but with the new visa increases, tax laws and other increases it seems its becoming less of a budget friendly travel place and more tailored to wealthy expats who have expandable cash.@@les8518
but what papers you need collect and show in thailand not need pay twice same money TAX, if come first time to thailand, move all you visa money, house buy money, car need buy money and ewery month retiree salary move to thailand , can go to thailand stay less 180 day and this time no TAX move all you money what you need in thailand to thai bank, then go out less 180 day no TAX but how long time need be out of thailand can go back and start new life retiree in thailand before has move money bank and second travell go back and make year visa, and then stay live and move only month small amount ewery month to thailand retiree salary,
pretty sure the guess said only monies transfered into Thailand is subject to this tax ie transferd into a Thai bank account. I have only used my foreign debit cards to pay for everything so Im good
I'm even more confused after listening to him. Good job finding an expert. Most of us expats are concerned about our social security and investment income already taxed in the USA or other countries. A simple answer addressing that would be peachy.
Just withdraw 30k at KrungSri ATM dayly...... how much more do you need? That is 11 mil/year.....
@@dotcom2528The taxman would ask to see your bank account / creditcard statement ? then you pay tax on what you draw from ATM in Thailand. Bom
Social security and other government pensions are not taxed but one would think you need to still file a tax return and exempt that income specifically on the return.
@@Charvo75Yes you need to show that its government pensions, and you already had paid Tax on it (higher tax than if Thailand should tax it, if the thai tax is higher? then you have to pay the difference). You need to file a tax return and likely need professionel help, so for many it would just not be worth the time,money and hassle.
This really sucks. Based on what I read, even though my retirement is not taxable here in America, I would be taxed at 25% if I move there full time. After 2 1/2 years preparing to move there, I’m now looking at other options.
checked the phillippines yet??
@@allanwatts8361 I have. That’s high on my list.
I am in the same boat. 20 months away from retiring in Thailand and those plans have now been scrapped. May check out the PI@@allanwatts8361
Try Cambodia
Why Cambodia? Give me the lowdown, brother!@@buckytravelsplaces7581
According to the Thai-American tax treaty, state pensions and social security can only be taxed by the country of the funds' origin (the US).
isnt that changeing though
Also, if I'm not mistaken, as long as the monies are taxed at a rate of 35%, the Thai govt will not tax any extra.
@@kwidid23 That is the highest rate. Their rate is progressive.
@@allanwatts8361 they can't change it
Fantastic. My US-based VA disability should go untouched then. Awesome!
No problem for me less than 180 days is fine, split it with back home or other countries, too risky these days to "Sell the farm and move to x cheap country".
You might want to look at Article IV (or Article 4) of the tax treaty between your home country and Thailand.
exactly @@yvr2002rtw
but IF not have homecountry anythink no home, no work ,no life, and need stay thailand because thailand have thai wife, childrens,car,house,all not easy go out of thailand anythink.
For those who said he speaks too fast 0.75x playback speed is your friend 🙂
@ThailandForexTrader lol 😆
OK... So I might be taxed. I'm 100% positive that if I walked into the tax man's office in Bangkok and asked them for the right forms because I want to pay my taxes that they wouldn't know. Will my Thai savings account automatically get taxes? Or will they send me a form? Is immigration informing the tax man of my address? The whole thing is absurd and not viable. This will implode.
I think they will do it very simply: withhold some percent from all incoming transfers.
The guy in the video is talking about 15%.
And then it will be your job to prove that you have already paid taxes on this money.
@@dmitriikurilov1569weird. I have done 4K usd transfer into my bank this year and no 15% withdrawal. I am guessing this is because my Thai bank is not psychic and has no way of knowing if I will be in Thailand for 180 days in 2024….
@@melissaakey4631 Probably, they have not implemented this mechanism yet.
But their reasoning may be as follows: if these people have Thai bank accounts then highly likely they are Thai tax residents, so, let's withhold 15% from all their incoming transfers and it is their job to prove that the money shall be returned AFTER the end of the tax year.
I may be overly pessimistic but so far the majority of my pessimistic forecasts proved to be true accurate.
It does not describe me as a very smart person, it rather describe the world we live in 🤷
@melissaakey4631 do u have to pay the fee on the transfer?
@@problematicpainandme1344?? I use transferwise to move money into Thailand. From the app you can find out the cost to transfer your currency to Thailand.
basically sounds like if ya rich ya welcome and can work around it,With markets getting expensive , inflation soaring, the Fed imposing large interest-rate hike, while treasury yields are rising rapidly-which means more red ink for portfolios this quarter. How can I profit from the current volatile market, I'm still at a crossroads deciding if to liquidate my portfolio or not
Thailand just sounds worse and worse , Selling off should never be an option. Every single bear (U.S.) market eventually recovered and hit new ATHs, and every stock investor wished they bought more during the sell-off. Buffett bought $600 million more $AAPL during a 3 day sell-off in Q1 2022. The wealthy get this and it's 1 reason they keep getting richer.
Opting for an investment advisor is currently the optimal approach for navigating the stock market, particularly for those nearing retirement. I've been consulting with a coach for a while, and my portfolio has surged by 45% since Q2.
Thanks for replying, You seem to know much, How did you go about it and can you recommend an advisor like yours?
‘LAURA GRACE ABELS is the licensed advisor I use. Just research the name. You’d find necessary details to work with a correspondence to set up an appointment.
Laura really seems to know her stuff. I found her online-page, read through her resume, qualifications and it was really impressive. I have booked a session with her.
Just renewed my non-O visa for a year. No additional tax info was required. All my pension and interest income is already taxed in Canada. Money in a Thai bank account is subject to tax on the interest.
exactly.
Immigration doesn't need your tax information because the banks already have all the information on the money that you bring into Thailand that they will provide to the the Thai revenue departments.
yes i believe people making this out to be bigger than it is
We all need to relax and wait until this time next year and see what the Inland Revenue departments decide to do. Immigration has nothing to do with Tax revenue collection hence why you were not asked for Tax information during your visa renewal.
Exactly, you only pay tax on the interest, not the money transferred…..the lawyer completely misinterpreted section 41. Worry is that, if he misinterpreted, the government officials and bank might misinterpret it too.
Clear as mud. Thanks Forrest. lol
Seems like a hostile tax to me, I think foreigners may consider going elsewhere in Asia.In the end, I think this will hurt Thailand.
Bravo Forest and cheers to you guest. Nice information.
The problem will be, for people with multiple sources of income in their home country, is, money send online has not serial number. If you bring in more than just your pension / social security, then it's impossible to prove a foreign tax credit for every dollar. i.e. my Veterans Pension is tax free in AUST. No way I'm paying tax on my legal tax free money to Thailand. So people wont bring in large amounts anymore, there will be other ways found.
Other ways said in the interview is to get a long term visa.
I will reduce the amount of time I stay in Thailand to 175 days.
same
all old retiree this not have possiple, homecountry not have anythink if has moved to thailand many year before, has sell all at homecountry, expensive go to back homecountry if there not have anythink, all not can pay 2 house,car,etc, two country, not smart keep homecountry anythink if move live in thailand.
@@mattivirta I disagree with you. I think people are foolish to sell up everything and move to a country like Thailand. If you can't afford to have a base in your home country, I think it is better to stay where you are a citizen and have full citizen rights. I would never base myself in Thailand solely. I will always have the option to come back to my own great country, Australia when I need to, or just want to.
perhaps that is what the government wants - the policy is working then. Having economic migrants live full time is a drain of public services. Tourists (those staying less than 175 days) might be more beneficial from Thailand's economic perspective
You know this is Thailand & so you know how this will go...if it goes....It will be on the customer to prove why the money should not be taxed & request it back at end of year as a tax return. There is no way the bank or the govt will search out each transfer reason. They will assume & tax all then throw it back to the customer to prove why it should not be taxed. This is after all Thailand...go into a emergency room at a private hosital...DO they immediately treat you or immediately ask you to prove how you will pay? Thailand is not going to let this money flow & later ask you to pay...instead I am betting it will be pay first & claim back later ...if you can
According to the tax lawyer in the video, incoming deposits will have a 15% withholding unless you agree to allow the bank to report all your financial information to the taxing authorities. My guess is most expats don't want any withholding, so they will agree to the reporting.
Sounds about right for sure
For those receiving Social Security from the US government, it would probably be best to have the deposit made directly to a Thai Bank Account, so that it will be clear that that amount should be exempted from Thai taxes. Any other amounts should be gotten at an ATM if possible. If one is not retired and not receiving US Social Security, then SOL.
Money earned outside Thailand has already been taxed in the country it has earned.
This is double taxation in effect taxing money itself
That is mostly true, but many countries have tax treaties so that a tax credit for foreign taxes can be applied to the tax return of the permanent country of residence. Generally, the US does have such foreign tax credits, but not sure if they have a tax treaty with Thailand, and since this is new Thai tax on US citizens living in Thailand, it might be looked at closely by the IRS. Also, the US taxes income, not money transfers, so it is possible that no tax is due in the US and it is only money being transferred to the Thailand, and in that case a tax credit on US tax return might not be of much help.
right . i hate that ,. just like poker winnings . the money to enter the tourney was already taxed . then they take 25-30% more if you win
@@craigbmm4675 If you are a professional poker player, in the USA you can deduct all the expenses of playing poker, including travel costs and entry fees.
@@craigbmm4675and you can't write off your loses
tax pays for public services, and the country you live in provide you with public services
Thank you for sharing this valuable information!
Imagine you only need $30,000/yr to live in Thailand, but now need to drop $3000/yr on lawyers and or accountants. JUST LIKE THAT 10% of your entire annual budget down the drain for so much F.
I think there are ways around it. Basically, don't transfer money into your Thai bank account. Either crypto, Wise, or some other alternative is available.
@@Charvo75 not have many, options, many need you have bank account in tyhailand, ATM have only way not goverment can see ewery month take out money can live. but this have too limited how lot can take out.
You could definitely live in Thailand with less than 30k but I get everyone’s budget and lifestyle is different
@@RawDogTV yes all peoples have different life style, but my life normal easy retiree life same than home has, maybe little better comfortable, better food,better weather,lot new hobby, same money than home has go month about me 1000-1500$/month. and not need anythink be better or good, best country stay retiree, only problem have idiot monkey country law, visa law, new income tax law and land owner law need change normal human country style law and forget this idiot monkey stupid law system in Thailand.
Seems like you understand this guy, maybe you can do a break down of what he said
I understood 10% of what he said
Thanks Forrest for this! Good stuff.
My understanding is that if you pay a lower tax in your home country than you do in Thailand, then you have to pay an extra amount to meet the Thai rate.
For example if you make 1 million baht as a single US taxpayer you would be taxed 12% in the US but as a tax resident of Thailand you would be taxed at 20% so you pay an extra 8% to Thailand. If you pay 35% in the US you owe Thailand nothing since it's the same rate in Thailand.
But the key part is the money needs to be brought into Thailand. If you use your US credit card for airfare and travel use cash, ATM, or WISE in Thailand I think you're fine. If you need to make a big purchase like a car or condo I would consult an expert.
Sounds all logical and makes some sense but under Thai logic could mean all you stated is 100% wrong!
The paperwork would be a nightmare - international taxes are a real pain in the ass.
Mostly correct, but if you take money from an ATM in Thailand using a Wise card or foreign bank card then you have brought money into the country from abroad and it is taxable in Thailand. The ATM transactions are logged in the banking system and available to the Thai Revenue Department
Yep, and I have a feeling it will ignore roth IRA/401k tax rules. USA will tax 0% and Thailand will tax 36% 😅
@@obiwon84 Any tax exemptions or allowances in your home country tax code apply only to your home country and are not recognised in Thai tax law
So stay one day less than 6 months, don’t have a local bank account, no worries.
Some visas require a Thai bank account.
True. Non-O aka retirement vise requires a bank account.
Or read Article 4 (Article IV) of the tax treaty between your home country and Thailand. You could potentially avoid being considered a Thai tax resident under its domestic laws (eg spending more than 180 days) if you arrange your affairs in a way that would allow you to tie break your tax residency back to your home country. However, the only catch is that your home country would tax you on your worldwide income.
but if you have in thailand, wife,childrens,house,car, and homecountry not have anythink.
Can he list or name a step by step strategy to minimise or eliminate a requirement to pay tax. Eg 1. Stay less that 180 days 2. Provide document (whatever it is) to demonstrate it is a savings and not income 3. For US citizens, provide US pension and/or social security documents etc. Also for retirement visa expats who chose to deposited 800000 bth as apposed to 65000 bth method, will this deposit be taxed every year? if you pay tax, will this mean expats in Thailand can access the Thai government medical cover?
it's simply unfair to draw conclusions until next tax year.
It is wise though to try and avoid foreseeable risks.
You would not drive into a wall thinking that "it's simply unfair to draw conclusions until we hit it" 😉
Taxation without representation?
this aint america smh
It's a USA slogan, and even then it doesn't even apply to all of its residents. Green card holders and felons can't vote but they are certainly taxed on their income.
Well Put.
taxation is based on residency, not nationality - it is a basic universal concept applied in most civilised countries
@@patoises In most civilized countries there is representation for that tax!
I wonder how banks will know if someone stays more than 180 days in the country? Or will they, by default, tax all incoming money and then you have to prove that you stayed less than 180 days in the country to have the tax being refunded?
Immigration, banking and financial department works "hand in glove" along with Count Taxman in Thailand!
Refunded?? I think once they've got your money they aren't going to be very helpful in returning any excess taxes you were charged
I think you are right, it is the easiest way for them and all I know about Thai people tells me that they tend to always pick the easiest way possible 😂
Good update Brother Lee. Hang in there and stay strong bro.
This is actually really good news because I presume I'll be able to not only take advantage of cheap/free hospital and GP treatments but can send my English kids to the free Thai schools, own a firearm, travel for free on many train lines, pay Thai rates at tourist attractions, vote in Thai elections, join the police force or armed services and even stand for political office (maybe become the first Farang PM).
I think the Philippines is the best place to go but I would do some research
Until its not.
The Philippines is awesome! Less worries and more safe for expats! 😊
One of the better breakdowns of this so far.. The lawyer actually was aware of many of the finer points of the DTAs he mentions (US state penisions and social security covered but private pensions and capital gains inst etc) this is a much better level of detail than some of the bad takes currently floating about (the elite visa one especially).
It will all come down to enforcement.
Do you think for even a second the Thai's will be lazy when collecting taxes? It'll be enforced, alright
I am an American on social security so, I will bring in only the social security, spend less time in Thailand, go shopping for clothes and other non-essentials in Vietnam or other countries. So the net result for Thailand is that I will pay no tax here and spend less money here. I think that I am not the only one who feels the same.
This is a great video for us to be mindful of taxation versus time in a particular nation. That is such good info. Thank you.
Sounded like to me a double taxation even though Thailand has tax treaty with US
The problem is that Thailand is taxing money transfers into Thailand (which can include principal or money previously saved up) and not just income.
i feel so sad for my wife. we were planning a move back soon with our daughters.
New Tax law is very very confusing. To speak the truth they can pit the tax on their own citizen. But not foreigners who is bringing money to invest in properties n other things.
Not at all attractive..
I subscribed right away after you said what you said on taxes at the first minute of your video. I agree with you 100%
lol
I loved thialand when I was there, but i chose to retire in Phillipines. 3 reasons why I decided not to move to thialand. (1) the visa program is screwed up, always changing, if your a rich person it wouldn't matter.(2) Russians takeing over, thia business suffering from rich russians buying property, houses and businesses. (3) The language barrier
how much better is the phillippines compares to america/canada
@allanwatts8361 according what your budget is, you can rent nice house for 300 to 600 american a month, if you eat local food it's cheap, but you pay more for food imported in, 98 percent people speak english, everything basically english, plenty of nice philipina ladies to choose from, I chose a province girl, 30 years old, we build small 2 bedroom house on her land for 20,000 american, she takes good care of me. There is 100s of islands to explore, island hopping is very affordable, good hospitals, public and private, very affordable. And you can renew visa to stay 3 years before you have to leave , take short trip somewhere, come back and start your 3 years over, or marry a philipina, get residency that way, or get retirement visa, which you have to put 10,000 US in philipine bank account
Oh, im liveing good on 1000 dollars a month, I don't have rent but 1500 a month good budget for one person, oh, plenty of fresh fruit and vegetables too.
for thailand?@cj1017
I also found, liveing in Phillipines, if I want to go on vacation, I can take 30 day holiday in thialand visa free, thats good enough for me.
My Trifecta Plan: 7 months in USA, 5 months in Thailand. ( Easy to implement: 7 weeks in USA, then 5 weeks in Thailand, then repeat, repeat, etc. ). NOT a tax resident of Thailand. 🎉
You are a very healthy and wealthy person if you can afford and survive travelling across the globe every 5-7 weeks.
not smart and possiple many peoples make it, travelling alltime in and out, need 2 country home and all, not smart.
I read somewhere there was a threshold amount over which taxation would apply. Can you verify this?
There is an amount similar to the standard deduction for the IRS. Each individual gets it. It isn't a big number.
Personal allowance of THB 60k is tax exempt and the first THB 150k are taxed at 0%.
THB 210k in total (less than $6k), not too much.
This will crush the housing market here. Because it sounds like if you want to transfer money here to buy a condo, then they will take 35% of it. To hell with that. Condo rates here are already way overpriced. They are almost 3X higher than KL per square meter. This is insane.
I may now not proceed with the retirement visa, also wont consider buying a condo, maybe a tourist visa & stay in visa friendly countries, which I’m exploring
The lawyer said Pensions and Social Security would not be taxed. Then he said only social security is not taxed. I’m an American with a pension and social security. Which of his statements is true?
According to Thai law, both. Lol.
According to most double tax agreements pension is taxed in the country it's originated.
Good video. Thanks you.
Thanks for this video, Battle! So correct me if I'm wrong, please. My US-based VA disability income, which you know is tax-free, will not be taxed when I transfer it in (I transfer from US bank thru Wise and into my Thai K+ bank) but my life insurance sales comissions income will be taxed in Thailand, even, though I already pay taxes stateside at the end of every year?
The taxes on your life insurance sales commissions income you have paid in the USA will be subtracted from the Thai income tax amount to pay. However, if Thai income tax is higher than US income tax then you will have to pay the difference.
What really sucks though is that they are going to tax ALL money you transfer into Thailand, including your lifetime savings which has already been taxed some years ago.
From what I hear in this interview, they are going to withhold the 15% tax by default and it will be your job to prove that the money has already been taxed.
Here in Canada when we sell our principal residence we do not pay a capital gain tax.
Now imagine that I have sold my house for $500k and decided to retire in Thailand.
I have 3 options:
1. Transfer all my money to Thailand before I become a tax resident in Thailand and pay no tax. But I am not sure that this amount of money can be taken from Thailand as easily as it can be transferred into the country. I would not want my life savings to be trapped in Thailand forever.
2. Leave my money in Canadian financial system and transfer little amounts which are enough to support me for 2-3 months but pay the Thai income tax.
3. Rent a condo in Thailand for 1 year every other year so that I stay in Thailand less than 180 days each year, i.e. live in 2 countries. A lot of a hassle 😮💨
taxation without representation? no thanks.
It's a radical idea, but has anyone in the government thought about spending less and not running deficits?
here's another radical idea - locals pay taxes, economic migrants rants about host governments
A possible option: 1) Get tax residency in Uruguay (only need to visit once a year) 2) Setup USA LLC Corp (zero corporate tax) + Business bank acct + CC processing 3) Live anywhere else in the world for UNDER 6 months (or you will get sucked into their tax system otherwise). 4) Smile and GTFO of the tax matrix assuming you earn your income online.
I just bought: LEGAL GUIDE TO DOING BUSINESS IN THAILAND. Looking forward to reading it.
So, if I were to bring in savings from my home country and those savings I have already paid tax on in my home country, would I be exempt from paying this new Thailand tax?
It's tricky. You'd have to prove where your savings came from in order to claim it was taxed. I would only bring in just enough money to cover my expenses. As far as taxation, if your income was taxed 25% in your home country and your tax rate in Thailand is 30% then you're liable for 5%.That's my understanding.
They can kiss my arse.
Only bring enough to live off no more. If you can also spend less than 6 months in Thailand. Unfortunately Thailand is no longer a longterm retirement destination but is still a good long stay tourist spot.
@@DIGITALMIND63 i understand if you pay retiree salary TAX ewery month 5‰ home country and send money ewery month thai bank account you need pay this income money -30‰ ewery month you retiree salary what mean full TAX you money have 35‰ and yhis have horriple and out off law.
It is the most troubling and unclear question so far.
No official definition of lifetime savings exempt from taxation.
Furthermore, what about proceedings from selling your home which was your principal residence and, therefore, the capital gain is exempt from taxation in your home country?
Just imagine a retiree who has sold their home for $500k and plans to live of this money.
They basically have 2 options:
1. Transfer all their money into Thailand before they become Thai tax residents (it means moving to Thailand in July or later in the year). But as far as I know transferring money out of Thailand is not as easy as transferring money into Thailand. I rather not have my money trapped in Thailand forever, who knows what other brilliant ideas they have on their minds.
2. Keep the bulk of their money in their home country and pull small amounts via ATMs, Wise, or something else but not via Thai banks.
I don’t think the government there understand people from west will just go eles we’re
Thank you so much for this excellent video and information Sir.
I am on Social Security and planning to move to Thailand with my Fiancé this year. After learning this it looks like that plan is NOT GOING TO WORK?
Any suggestions regarding other countries would be greatly appreciated.
social security is exempt under the double tax treaty- he even mentions it in the video
I don’t quite think they have thought this through!
People will leave or start bringing in cash if this gets bad.
So I could stay less than 180 days transfer in a large sum of money and Not be taxed as I am Not a tax resident, then next year you only spend money already in Thai bank account?
my thought as well haha. Wanna buy a condo? Move aways, buy it, move back.
or if you spend over 180 days just use a foreign debit card and dont bother getting a thai bank account
There might be a lot of digital nomads making videos in Thailand and not paying taxes to Thailand.
That will turn a lot of people away from Thailand. What they make in taxation in the short term, they will lose out in foreigners coming to live in Thailand. But the lawyer did say Pensions wouldn`t be taxed?
I spend so much money here but they don't welcome me - ignorant and short sighted !!
Pay without any rights
Bringing in money is not necessarily Income. It could be capital saved over years, loans, gifts etc. Are we going to have prove everything? No encouragement to invest and spend in Thailand.
One thing that I picked up here is that if you have a Thai bank account, as long as it is just a non-interest bearing checking account, the bank will not report the transactions to the Thai Tax Authority. They are just required to report interest to the Thai tax people. For me I would plan to stay in Thailand less than six months, so none of this would apply to me.
Time to leave Thailand and find somewhere more welcoming.
Malaysia
The Philippines is awesome!😊
Nobody can be double taxed on the SAME revenues, it's internationally illegal (especially with a tax agreement treatee between the two countries).
When you make money in a country, you declare that money there, and so pay taxes in that country. When you pay your taxes in a country (or back home), you get a tax receipt. You can always provide this tax receipt to the authorities of your new country in order to avoid being double taxed on the same revenue (but you rarely have to show the receipt, cause YOU'RE NOT EVEN SUPPOSED TO DECLARE A REVENUE YOU GET IN A COUNTRY A, TO THE COUNTRY B).
If you choose not to (cause it's financially favorable to you tax wise), you can declare your revenues in your new country (that's what the tax agreement treatee between two particular countries is made for, in the first place) and will pay taxes there. In that case, you're still required to provide a tax receipt to your country of origin (or the one this money was made in) in order to not get double taxed on it. BUT THIS OPTION IS ONLY POSSIBLE IF THERE IS A TAX AGREEMENT TREATEE BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES.
To be taxed in your new country, you need to BE MAKING SOME MONEY IN THAT COUNTRY.
To be taxed in two countries, you need to make money in both, RESPECTIVELY.
I thought that if u were an American citizen but earned money in thai, then u have to pay tax to the US government. Otherwise, you will lose all benefits. That is double taxing, isn't it?
@problematicpainandme1344 NO, you pay where you earn, that's an international rule NO COUNTRY can break. If you make money in a country and go live in a different one, you still owe your taxes to the previous one (where you earn, including passive income, of course).
Exceptionally, and only if the country you live in allows it (it's only possible between countries that have a tax agreement treatee), AND IF YOU CHOSE TO DO SO CAUSE IT BENEFITS YOU (tax wise), you can opt for paying your taxes where it benefits you the most (BUT I REPEAT IT AGAIN FOR THOSE WHO ARE PROFESSIONAL MISUNDERSTANDERS, it's ONLY POSSIBLE IF 1. IF the country you're in allows that option (tax agreement treatee in place there), AND 2. IF YOU PICK THAT OPTION cause it benefits you financially).
THE TAX AGREEMENT TREATEES WERE MADE TO PROHIBIT DOUBLE TAXING BY LAW. I don't understand how one can miss THAT FACT. How many braincells does it really take to get this basic concept ? HOW MANY ?
Except if you're American. US citizens must pay taxes regardless of if they are earning it in the United States or not. You do get exemptions, but those could be taken away at any time. I'll give you an example, if you sell a house in a different country even if you're a citizen of that country, and work in that country, depending on appreciation, you will be required to pay taxes on it. Ask Boris Johnson in the house he sold in England... I think he was just The London mayor at the time, but because he never formally declared that he wasn't American, even though he never actually declared that he was, since one of his parents was American, he was liable for those taxes
@@eric209 as I stated in the other post, they are exemptions, but no you are wrong, you absolutely have to pay American taxes even if you're earning it in a different country and have no other affiliation other than your citizenship to the USA
IS WISE THE BEST EXCHANGE TO USE FORREST OR IS WESTERN UNION? NEVER USED THEM BEFORE THANKS
WE not can move than max 10 000$/ transaction, not can ewery day send moey. and other you need thai bank account move money to thailand and thats goverment can see how much money has transfer and collect TAX this.
I DON'T THINK IT INCLUDES FOREIGNER. ONLY THAI RESIDENTS. IF, INCLUDES FOREIGNER. IT WILL DRIVE ALL THE PEOPLES OUT OF THE COUNTRY. IT GOING TO COST THAILAND ECONOMY.
absolutely
Nah, Thailand don’t need foreigners , especially poor expats with limited income 🤪
Thats a shame. Takes Thailand off the list.
Probably a blessing in disguise for many would-be expats ...
The more I read or watch videos about the new tax law, the more I'm confused :) The easiest will be not to bring any more money into Thailand.
I'm still unclear about the tax on savings brought from overseas, especially when an account combines "old money" acquired before January 2024 with "new money" from dividends or other income.
but need move money to thailand can make visa and buy house and car and motorbike etc, and ewery month need move money to thailand can live.
@@mattivirta It depends on your situation. I have both a salary in Thailand and other income from abroad. But for people who have to continuously bring income from abroad, it could be an issue. I guess doing things like paying rent with Wise and paying some expenses with a credit card might be a workaround. Rich people can probably spend over 6 months outside of Thailand once, and bring several millions Baht to live for multiple years in Thailand.
I wish you had asked him about the issues for property investment, someone buying a 50 million baht villa and importing those funds, those will now be taxable UNLESS they can prove tax paid elsewhere, so how would that proof be accepted.
Actually enforcing this law crashes the real estate markets in tourist hotspots.
The Thai government doesn't care if you paid taxes elsewhere. If you live in Thailand more than 180 days you are a tax resident and owe taxes. You would have to hire a tax lawyer in your home country to prove you are a non resident for tax purposes. This is the process in Canada and many other countries. Is called a residence determination.
@@Dodger1999 you miss understand..
If the money is earned prior and taxes were paid on it, it is then pretaxed income that would be covered under a DTA.
We are not talking about ongoing income while resident, but showing that savings are tax paid.
I have good news for you. The thai tax dept issued an official clarification recently stating that money remitted from offshore-sourced savings, income, or assets you owned PRIOR to 1 Jan 2024 is NOT subject to PIT if brought in anytime after 2023. I will try posting links but YT may not accept...
if the links are suppressed, the info can be found at tilleke and kpmg@@Dodger1999
@@davidrichards1741 yes already have it..
But that still implies that proof of source of funds, and likely a tax return will be required.
Our income is already taxed before it comes into Thailand. I'm not paying it again. I won't be living there if that happens.
Absolutely