Al-Kindi, Al-Farabi & The Translation Movement in Early Islam
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2019
- A new. long awaited historical review, this time dealing with the earliest of the Muslim philosophers. References can be found at the end of the video.
Al-Kindi: 08:10
Al-Farabi: 21:16
I seriously commend you! This is probably the only CZcams channel that discusses Islamic philosophy aspect from long lectures by professors. You present a very accurate free of both western and Muslim biases. Often you’ll find Muslims today who talk about philosophy talk about it through lenses of orthodox Sunni Ashaaris. They think they’re very philosophical if they’re Ashari or maturitdi. This leads them to deny people like ibn Sina and also ismailis
Very kind words, thank you so much :)
anything that is out of the box in our Abrahamic traditions is considered suspect until convinced by its clerics as not to be heresy.
European learn from muslims, muslims learn from greek and others who come before them. It is all part of human history. Most of time knowledge in both forms philosophy and science always progressing. As Muslim today I am learning from work of newton and many other western scientists. Regardless of which part of world is power progress in knowledge will always continue.
داكشي لي وصلو له المسلمين في العهد الذهبي ما وصلوش له الإغريق حتى في الأحلام
Westerners burned down mulsim knowledge and what happens nowadays is a continuous looting of anything that exist In the Islamic world from books to a geode and dinosaurs bones etc.. and exhibit it in their museums.
The Islamic world persecuted and killed their philosophers and scholars. They didn't teach the West anything.
@@franciscoscaramanga9396 bro read history then talk.
we all know what happen with that person who just claim earth is not center of universe
@@ibrahimkalmati9379 I'm probably more familiar with Islamic history than you. The Islamic world was briefly introduced to reason and logic during the period of the translation movement in the early ninth century, but early Islamic theologians came to the majority view that Islam is incompatible with reason. This led to the closing of the Muslim mind, and began the stagnation that allowed the West to outpace the Islamic world in innovation.
Thanks for Reviving Islamic Philosophy Metaphysics and Mysticism it’s a world heritage although so often west tries to neglect them.
Well they can ignore it because it isn’t THEIR philosophy
This is very interesting, Filip! Keep up the good work! I adore Al-Kindi and Al-Farabi and have included them in a module I teach at my uni! ^_^
That's awesome! We're both spreading the word!
The Eastern Romans (known by older generations of historians as the “Byzantines”) also maintained ancient knowledge and philosophy, alongside the Islamic world. In the discussion on the translation movement it is rarely mentioned that this is actually where the Islamic world obtained books about Ancient Greek philosophy. There was a flourishing trade of books between the civilisations of the Eastern Romans and Muslims. This knowledge passed into Western European states later due to the various crusades that raged, ultimately, against both civilisations - the 1204 conquest of Constantinople, the conquest of the Holy Land/the First Crusade and the conquest of southern Iberia and Sicily. Knowledge also passed through the emigration of Eastern Roman scholars to Italy following the destruction of their civilisation.
The reason why the role of both of these civilisations is ignored is due to the pervasive influence of the “Dark Ages”, which effectively writes off close to a millennium of history. The reasons for this historical narrative are many, including earlier western historians focus on Western European history and the relatively limited amount of source material for the “Dark Ages” at the time they were writing. However, this narrative also conveniently linked the histories of Western European states more closely to that of Ancient Rome, by skipping out the period between the end of the western half of the Roman Empire and the birth of their contemporary states e.g. France. In so doing this narrative allowed them to more easily present their states as the successors to the civilisation of the Roman Empire and thereby create a continuing thread of civilisational greatness, as opposed to including a period when Western Europe was actually relatively backward. This is only possible by ignoring the Dark Ages and the fact that the Rome State continued in the East during this period, making the claim that the West succeeded Rome clearly absurd. It also had the benefit of ignoring the height of Islamic power. In short, it suited the Western European historical narrative to ignore this time period.
The Muslim traditions overthrew the Byzantines . It was the early Church that synthesized Greek Hellenism into its fold so as to give it respectability in the academic world. I wonder how much these Islamic scholars could attribute to a book that was written much longer after the death of Mohammad than those written after AD 33 for Jesus? It seems that both the Greek and Hermetic philosophies were married to it.
I love how unbiased you are in all of your explanations. Simply describing. You have the
Potential of having a huge influence on open thought. Very interesting and easily digestible and if I was your professor it would be an A everytime.
I never managed sit through an entire video without skipping, stopping or closing it all together. Your content is superb
i just cannot get enough Al-Kindi, he's like the Leonardo da Vinci and Isaac Newton of his time. What a polymath, and at such an early time in history.
So please explain to me the practical use of his Stellar Rays ? I do see influence there in Alice Baley's works on RAYS or in Astrology thus psychology.
the most simple answer i can give is to just do a google search on "al kindi influence on modern science" and you will see quite a number of contributions, some relating to rays. @@TheSunship777
@@TheSunship777his stellar rays are similar to what we now call vibrations in the universe
You deserve millions of subscribers. Excellent content. Please team up with Religion For Breakfast too!
Thank you! If we can find a a fitting poject, I would be up for that!
I just always keep coming back to this channel to learn about out muslim scholars . The content always unfolds beautifully here . Thank u 🙏
This is my first time watching a video of yours, you offer very impressive insight and articulate every point so well. Thank you for this wonderful video! Subscribed
Everyday me watching a video from you. All are very helpful and contents are needful.
CZcams, recommend this wonderfully generous man to everyone in the world already
Excellent presentation. Jazak Allah Khair.
I've learned about the Islamic philosopher in my university, but mostly, as you said, as the "preservers of Greek philosophy" but barely anything about there specific theories or believes. I'm glad I found out about your channel.
Can not praise you enough for showcasing a massive and rather dry subject in limited time video format - master’s touch i must say
Thanks
TQ.I enjoy listening the talk which would otherwise remain unknown of their great contribution to islamic civilisation
I am elated to find your episodes to further my learning of those giant Muslim thinkers. You presentation is remarkable. I truly would to hear of the pre-Islamic and Muslim poets such as امرئ القيس، عنتر بن شداد and so on. Thank you 🙏🏻
Here is a link for an academic article about the same points
www.skase.sk/Volumes/JTI12/pdf_doc/04.pdf
I had heard of this movement but didn't know much about the details or who was involved so thank you for this video
Excellent presentation and easy to understand .
Thanks as usual for the great effort
Great videos, keep up the good work. Selam Aleykum
Mashallah! Very impressive brother👍
Would love to hear and see more about philosophy and music in Islamic world especially by the brethren of purity. Thank you for all you do :)
You will hear about that soon ;)
thank you, it is very interesting for me.
I'm glad!
yes! many people forget how important Middle Eastern philosophers were, especially Maimonides (Moses ben Maimon) and Yehudah HaLevi! Such great and influential minds that still resonate across millions of people today!
And ibn e sina ibn e khaldun ibn e haytham
Subscribed. Was searching for some Islamic astrology examples.
Your pronounciation of Farab and Al-Khurasan is so on point👍 21:31
Awesome, thank you very much.
they did this in my History and Theory class. I had to tell them that is not so and I used this video as a reference for names and philosophers. keep up the good work, man!
www.skase.sk/Volumes/JTI12/pdf_doc/04.pdf
You can use this article as well. It is very rewarding
www.skase.sk/Volumes/JTI12/pdf_doc/04.pdf
You can use this article as well. It is very rewarding
Al-Farabi also wrote a book on Philosophy of language, the Book of Words. Thanks for the video.
I like this guy!
Tough topic and yet, very interesting...
Many thanks for this informative video. I knew of Al-Kindi and Al-Farabi but not much about their specific ideas, so this filled a big hole in my knowledge. One thing I'm curious about is how Muslim philosophers reconciled their own stringent monotheism with the blatant paganism of the Greeks they admired. I suppose Plotinus takes us a step towards this, and angels are a convenient workaround, but we're still talking about people who sacrificed animals to a variety of gods.
Since i discovered this channel it definitely became one of my favorites. Thank you so much for that. I have a question-suggestion. I know that Plato, Aristotle and Socrates were the main influences deriving from Greece to the muslim world and translated accordingly. However, while doing some research i ve discovered that the teaching of a man called Xenophanes , the founder of the Eleatic school of thought in the hellenic Southern Italy seems to have much in common with the essence or the basics of Muslim theology regarding the essence and the characteristics of God mostly. Could you please tell me if the presocratic philosophers exercised any influence on the muslim school of thought?? Once again , thank you very much. Keep up the good work and stay safe.
FIL YOU ARE THE MAN. Masha’Allah 🙌🙌🙌
Thank you very much for the lecture provide as l live history and religion I benefit lots ,
And the Greeks are deeply indebted to the Iranians; Zoroaster and the Magi for their philosophical traditions.
Like your video, not enough people with a good critique of this lineage, could you do a video on Henry Corbin?
Amazing, tnank you !
Good ass video man. What book would you recommend for someone starting to study Al-Kindi?
Thank you, you just saved my life from a project worth 40% of my grade
Listening creates awareness so maybe this is period of a stagnation among Muslims will slow and surly shall recede naturally so patience is a virtue
Thanks...for describing something rare described.
From indonesia...
I'm curious what histories of philosophy you are referencing? Medieval history, philosophy and theology were my focus in college and grad school and yet from my 100 level course all the way through to 400 level Medieval Philosophy the Muslim philosophers were very much included! I would agree if you wanted to say that histories of Ancient Philosophy even over the past two decades still often seem to ignore Central Asia, the Far East and the Indian subcontinent and all that went on there so much earlier than even Thales and Democritus.
Have you read the book "The Name of the Rose" by Umberto Eco? I saw the film of the same name when I was just a very curious boy but I first heard about Ibn Hazm and his book "The Ring of the Dove" from later reading the book after seeing the film and falling in love with another time I had never heard of before. But Umberto Eco very accurately conveys the Medieval reception and great desire for books by Muslim authors. There was a very high regard for the Muslim philosophers well into the 14th century and almost a jealousy of the breadth and depth of knowledge they possessed. That while Medieval universities were stuck with Aristotle and reading what was in Latin reading so much by Cato whom we seldom read of centuries later. Though admittedly Cicero and Ovid were still consumed much even after the Renaissance.
Were you thinking about Frederick Charles Copleston? And his multi-volume History of Philosophy? I don't have it with me currently but I could have swore he include Al-Farabi and Al-Kindi in the Medieval Philosophy volume but perhaps there is a good case of omission when much more obscure philosophers in early Modern Europe were not!? I just am surprised that you don't try to make a point about 'the West' by making a video about Muslim philosophers after Averroes and his ending in a contradiction between Revelation and Philosophy? Personally I would really like to know because as of today I have never come across any philosophers from the Muslim world since the Medieval era on excepting the twentieth century forward.
Also PLEASE Remember whom Plato glorified, the priests of Egypt! The Ancient Greeks were never seeing themselves as 'the West' and neither did the Romans or the other English and German and Jewish and French Philosophers. Schopenhauer certainly not and he rather gloried in Far Eastern ideas and concepts. And the violent warfare, the division, between the Greco-Roman world and Germanic and Celtic nations and peoples. They were not seeing it as 'The West'. And there are many Celtic, definitely Gaelic, people's reviving and reclaiming their heritage and ancestral culture who don't have anything positive to say or write about the Romans.
I apologise for rambling but I hope someone else also benefits from reading this..
Also I knew and read in my school textbook in 1994 that was printed circa 1981, at least where I went to elementary school, Omar Khayyam was a Persian who wrote the first great book on Algebra. They definitely didn't erase him.
Thank you for this.... Read this.
I read about Al Faraby there's one time he was invited to the caliphate Harun Al Rasyid place where they have scholars there were having Q&A with him and he had replied to them all. then the caliph asks him what he wants to do now and the caliph also suggest that they watch the musicians performance.after the show finished he asked the musicians if they would lend him the gambus (musical instrument) and he said he knew it well.when he started playing the gambus everyone in there was laughing so hard for the music heard funny. then he rearrange the gambus and play this time everyone heard there began to cry. lastly he made another rearrangement and play it this time everyone fell asleep all of them and he walked out of the palace. the caliph rulers offer him a share of the national welfare but he refused to take.
Thank you for your commitment to sharing these crucial, lesser-known details about early philosophical thinking and their relationship to the Renaissance. Could you recommend any texts in particular that also cover some of this ground?
I appreciate you saying that a lot!
In terms of very basic introductory information, "The Cambridge Companion to Arabic Philosophy" is pretty good.
I always like to try and read the original works by these philosophers when translated into english, usually those editions have great introductions which covers the subject well.
For these two figures, not that much is translated unfortunately.
I know there is one edition of al-Farabi's "The virtious city" available in English.
I could highly recoment the book "Hayy ibn Yaqzan" by philosopher Ibn Tufayl, who lived a bit later than these two.
It is available in translation and is a pretty good presentation of some central philosophical ideas that were circulating in the middle ages.
I'll think about what other academic books I could recomend, I'm sure there are a ton I'm forgetting.
@@LetsTalkReligion Wonderful - many, many thanks again! I look forward to your other videos, as well.
Broadly speaking, I''m working on a classical rhetoric project in the vein of my secondary interests in sociolinguistics/second-language writing and the politics of translation. It's my hope to better understand the challenges/affordances of translating and preserving classical Greek writings. I think that the Translation Movement can help us think a lot about why (and how) we work with translated texts, today, and what we consider (or fail to consider) about translators themselves.
Feel free to let me know if you come across any other interest materials! I'm getting ready to start on "Aristotle's Rhetoric in the East."
@@garrettivancolon7652 That sounds like a very interesting subject! And I agree that the translation movement can probably provide some very valuable material in that regard
@@LetsTalkReligion Bro, did you read "History of conflict between Science and Religion" by an atheist writer Mr. Arthur Weigal?
Still searching,although aware that I may not find but nevertheless,I continue to search as the journey of searching is exciting.As far as the Destination itself is concerned,it is best left to Destiny.
Thank you very much,I was thirsting and I am still thirsty and the sipping goes on.
O Allah I am at your Mercy please be Merciful to Me and to the teachers whose lips,tongues,mouths dry up as they share their knowledge humbly to us.Ameen.
Currently I’m reading “A Short History of Islamic Thought” and I can’t help but hear your voice when reading it😂
Thank you for this video. Is there any known English translation of Farabi’s Great Book of Music? 🙏🏽🎶
That Hadith you told in the beginning about "seeking knowledge even if you have to go to China" is not really a hadith but there are some very amazing Ahadiths regarding the importance of "Ilm" or knowledge. You can find all of them online
Most so called ahadeeths are fake anyway
it is in hakim a l mustadrak not considered canon at all
I see no mention of Al-Kindi in Alice Baley's RAYS or in Max Heindel's Astrology however undoubtedly there seems to be a link.
René Guénon - The Esoterism of Dante mentions that the Arabic schools of mysticism, alchemy and magic were brought to Europe by the Templars.
Madine fazele means Euotopia, my hope was also talking about Madine Faseqe & Zelle.
The word "Farab" is a Persian term for a locale that is irrigated by effluent springs or flows from a nearby river. The older Persian Parab or Faryab (also Paryab), is a common Persian toponym meaning "lands irrigated by diversion of river water". Farabi's parents were of Persian descent. His father "was an army captain of Persian extraction." A Persian origin. Farabi's works contain references and glosses in Persian, Sogdian. Sogdian has also been suggested as his native language and the language of the inhabitants of Farab which was an Iranian-speaking Central Asian origin. Farabi was a Persian Philosopher
He was of Sogdian or Turkic origin
But he was definitely not of Persian origin because that region was not ethnically Persian
Wonderful
Fantastic, thank you. And an oud bias is always fair.
There were around 4000 students of imam Jaffar university of ahle bayt who educated them about Islam Adal (equality) Aql (Rational), free will, religion and jurisprudence thru quran. He raised these students as philosophers and confronted rulers laws ahead but major Sunni scholars like Hanbal inquisition, Ashaari determinism, al Ghazali Incoherence, Ibn Tayemya limitations blocked the way with support of Muslim rulers khalifahs for philosophers towards science applications to the current technology.
Bro request you to talk about the athari creed( hanbali ) and the ashari ...... please share wid us the details of both side of the creeds of islam. And also ur opinion
I just released a video on early Kalam where I talk about these subjects. Check it out! :)
I hope you will find time to look at the Scholars from Tombouktu and other Western Sudan Islamic scholars
Do you have a video on Ibn Rushd planned? I feel like I’ve watched all your videos and would love to see one on Ibn Rushd.
Yes, I am planning on making a video about Ibn Rushd!
Let's Talk Religion awesome! I need to get on your patreon lol. Love your stuff
I know I watched a Video with Rushd & a couple of other chaps in it. Am pretty sure it was this teacher also. It’s Excellent!
Is it me or the speaker in the video has some form of glitching? If you see carefully, his movements are a bit jittery - hard to explain but it is like the Analyst of Matrix 4: there are slight discontinuations between his movements. It is like, it is not smooth. Could he be some form of alien 👽 creature or slight fluctuations in quantum foam causing it? Could it also be glitches in a possible VR suggesting we are all in the matrix?
The Great Courses has a series on the Islamic Golden Age that goes over this.
Greek philosophers, kings have Arabic names in Islamic world. Aristotle is called Arastu, Plato is Falatun/Aflatun, Alexander is Sikandar or Iskandar. Sikandar/Iskander name is given to a Muslim boy.
@@littlecousin5630 no
@@littlecousin5630 maybe in Arabic world. We in Pakistan call him Sjkandar and in Persian Eskandar.
@@littlecousin5630 most of these are actually Persian. We call Greece Yunan because Persians conquered Ionia
Awesome!
Can you please make a video on impact of neo-platonic idea on Muslim writers 🙏
thank you
I am still in Cave and deluded but this kind of Exposure helps to gradually move away
Thanks 👍👍👍
What do you think about Nietzsche's zarathustra?
Stimulating, thank you 😊
PLS TALK ABOUT AL KHAWARIZMI THE FOUNDER OF AL GEBRA AND THE AL GORITME
Can you do a video that talks about salahudin al-ayubi. Thanks
He talks religion not Kings. For that you should watch Kings and Generals' videos.
Great work, Filip!... But I thought that translation to arabic was done from syriac and not directly from greek...
Plz don't stop but make it short with a little humour so everyone get excited to watch and learn...
Thanks for the feedback! This video is unusually long for me and I try to keep it as short as I can. I'll keep your comment in mind in the future :)
I see your point. But I think one of the issues in this world is the extreme dumbing down of everything. If one is serious about learning and developing their cognitive abilities, one should leave humour to where it belongs, keep serious thought where it belongs.
I would not have subscribed to Phil’s channel if he were just another goofy guy playing around on CZcams. I like his tone and his effort to be accurate and systematic. While humour entertains and keeps you hooked, it always involves an alteration of some degree which comes at the detriment of accuracy and substance.
What about the books from India that were majority of the translations??
I suspect that his idea that philosophy allows the true philosophers to reach the perfect Truth and the Prophet 's revelation was necessary to allow the common people to reach the same Truth was and is quite controversial for some devout Muslims. But considering that he was a man living 1000 years ago I am quite impressed by this statement. Can anyone provide more details about how he phrased this notion ? Was he so outsposken or he tried to explain it to sound as less controversial as possible?
Any interest to study the controversial Syeikh Siti Jenar of Indonesian heritage?
Dope video though 😎
After watching 1:38 seconds ... I go “THANK YOOOUUUUU”. I remember reading a particle physics book where the author is explaining the context of spin in elementary particles. And in there he spends the first chapter discrediting all the Muslims and crediting Greeks for the scientific breakthroughs. I never really understood his bizarre view of comparing such apples to oranges.
Guys understand as a human race we’re all indebted to those who came before us. Comparing civilizations that are a thousand years apart serves no one but ur massive ego that feeds on false comparisons as such mentioned above.
Who was the author
Really don’t remember… it was like 12 years ago…. It was some American guy… he came off American.
So, is it safe to say that this specific emanation concept is what triggered the birth of Kabbalah? (In a nutshell)
I think the dialectical method will always persist in dealing with both tradition and metaphysics , spiritual science and esotericism as a conflict resolution. The "Mother" of these latter terms started in India. The prepared bodies of our religious traditions were seeded from the Vedas. Neither Christianity , Judaism, or Islam were a spontaneous one shot form born from a bubble phenomenon.
Much of the worlds progress in such areas today seems to be that of 'I' Consciousness and those schools of thought past are slowly becoming into a state of metamorphosis with it.
I want to find Al kindis books
Ishaq is pronounced Is-haq (Isaac in Arabic)
❤❤❤❤❤
Great program
So why the friction?
Dirt and dust bunnies do, in fact, happen in a vacuum. The issue is complex and require nuance.
I don’t know if I can make you understand, The Absolute One “The God” , ever wonder why he created all this, philosophers have been pondering endlessly over the relationship between The creator and the creation. Be it ibn e arabi, Aristotle al kindi or farabi or any other philosopher. No one seems the asking the question WHY....
YOU UNDERSTAND “WHY” AND YOU WILL UNDERSTAND ALL OF IT....
thanks for your videos , could you speak a little bit slowlier?
Its a historical comedy with the muslim world that Instead Of Aristotal, Socretes, Plato or name Demacretes etc muslim translators got Plutonius' Metaphysics and took his treatises as the whole Greek Wisdom. I personally think it unfortunate event. If they had got the original works on pure philosophy of Rationalism from great greek wizards then pure physics, Dialectecism could ensue a genuine scientific revolution in the world cencuries earlier. Its the Spenish muslim scholars, particularly Ibn e Rushad who happend to encounter original greek works but by time Ilam ul Kalam had panetrated deep into muslim intellectual circles.
Therefore, i usually feel irritated when I hear term MUSLIM PHILOSOPHERS.
Stay blessed Sir and keep muslim world in the lull of mysticism.
Great job! But please try to give correct geographical points. Rumi, Ibn Sina, Al Farabi, Naser Khusraw.... were from Khurasan ( modern day Afghanistan)
ایران بودن افغانستانم ۱۰۰ سال از ایران جدا شده
Rumi Was of Arab origin And ibn sina was Uzbek Arabized And Al Farabi Was Uzbek Arabized
it wasn't said by Muhammad PBUH, actually, it was said by another saint person, later " seek knowledge, even if you had to go to China"
Ashari maturidi vs athari
Its not Ishaq, its iss.haaq the arabic alternate of Isac
LOL "they weren't too creative with the names back then"
It is ao sad to see that the west has always ignored the contribution of muslim scholars towards renaissance. Without Muslim philosophers there wouldn't be a Renaissance.
nice video but maybe break up into 5-10 minute sections
It is my goal to make the videos as short as possible (except documentaries). If I ever make a video this long again, I will probably divide it up into shorter sections :)
@@LetsTalkReligion longer means more info, every minute i find valuable. Watching and rewatching these interesting topics thanks soo much
It is Iss-haq rather than Ishaq
إسحاق
I love how all the persian philosophers just get stolen by arabs.
I am rather curious that you have studied many personalities of school of Sunni and Sufis and seams missed out totally on personalities of school of Shia in particular the saying and life of Imam Ali and ahl al bait. Why is that?
Exactly, and the teachings of Imam Jafar Al Sadiq. The teacher of Imam Malik and Hanafi
I wonder what Christianity (and Islam) would be like if they weren't so heavily influenced by neo-Platonism . . .
The philosphical understanding of Alkindi (and his successors) was that the concept of God (as described in Quran and Islamic teachings) doesnt contradict Aristotle's rational. Which means no platonism didnt influence Islam at all. It was seen as an explanatory to what was being taught my Prophet Muhammad.