Saito FG 21 gas fuel glow and spark ignition test run
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- čas přidán 26. 02. 2021
- This part dedicated to Saito FG 21 running on gas fuel, testing different ignition methods. Yet unusual for gas engines glow ignition with OS G5 type glow plug, and with genuine Saito FG 21 spark ignition.
I was very much positively surprised with Saito FG 21 ability to run with glow ignition on gasoline fuel. This option seriously expands the variety of ignition options with engines, running on gas \ petrol based fuels.
Later will continue to explore this topic - just waiting for some additional gas fuel glow plugs from suppliers.
Thank you for watching CrazyEngines !
Have a nice day ! - Věda a technologie
Nice video series btw!
Thank you very much for your kind comment ! I'll be honest - such comments encourage me to make even better engine videos. Thank you for watching CrazyEngines !
There was once in some soviet model engines a thing called "glow-spark plugs" which was a hybrid. The central electrode was deliberately made thin and insulator not too heat-conductive. The engine started on spark ignition and once the plug was hot enough the electrical system was disconnected and engine was left to run on the hot-glowing spark plug.
Thank you very much for your comment and for information provided ! Very, very interesting. To be honest, I thought I knew quite a lot about Soviet model developments, and at an early age I had several Soviet engines, and a Rhythm 2.5 diesel, and a Comet, and an MK 1.5 (in my opinion, as far as I remember) and even a Meteor. But to be honest, I've never heard of such interesting development. Thanks for the info! Or maybe there are some details, names?
Thanks again !
@@crazyengines88 I remember this only vaguely from an old (60's? 70's?) book about model engines, never seen this in real life. I assume the idea was to get rid of the extremely cumborsome old batteries for ignition system plus the coil. Those really old 2 stroke engines made barely 0,3 or so HP, so an ignition system weighing close to maybe 300-500g was too much really. I am guessing they didn't have glow plugs in the modern sense, fuel was some low-octane gasolene and mineral oil, so no nitro and no fancy platinum coated glow plugs. They went for the next best thing - designed a spark plug that would glow if heated up enough. This was however the only reference I heard of, as probably ether-kerosine-castor oil compression engines took over until late 80's because of simplicity and much lower total weight.
Theoretically there's nothing inherently wrong with glow plugs and gasoline. If the glow plug is correctly tunes you basically end up with the 100 year old idea of "glow bulb" semi-diesel like ignition. All that's needed is to correctly match the glow plug with the engine - to get as similar across-rpm performance (with ignition advance and all) as you'd expect from a purely spark ignited engine. This may be tricky trough, one could even have to design a custom glow plug, as most if not all factory made ones are specifically designed for nitro as fuel.
@@LegateMalpais Thank you for such a detailed description, very, very interesting. In fact, most of the glow plugs in my test runs were fairly easy to set to high RPM, you just have to work with the HS needle. It’s just that the ability to show absolutely everything in a video, on the one hand, makes it very informative, but on the other hand, makes it long and boring, which many people don’t like, and I understand them very well.
Thanks again for such detailed information!
I put the same OS g5 on a saito FG 14cc, perfect.
Hi, that's great to hear, that OS G5 glow plug performs well, so, thank you for a good news ! Have a nice day !
excellent congrats for the video....... one question does the G5 works better than original spark ignition? more RPM at the maximum? i saw in the video, is it correct? thank you dear and congrats again.
Nice video
Thank you for your nice comment ! Your kind comments drive me to continue to work on CrazyEngines project.
Regards !
Thanks for sharing! Did you do the run with the original gas carb this time?
Thank you for your question ! Yes, it is, setup is basically from the box, with genuine Saito gas carb with pump, as far, as I understand. Gas carb looks significantly different form glow fuel type carb. You can check this looking from the right side of an engine - it's bigger and have more "square" looking.
Nice nice
I have osggt15
Now saito is compatible with the os G5 i think i must get one
Hello, sorry for late reply. I think, you can easily use OS G5 glow plug with your OS gasoline engine.
@@crazyengines88 Hello
The os G5 is special
For ggt os engine.
@@amiraldz1970 Hello, thank you, I don’t think, that OS G5 glow plug dedicated just for OS GGT15 engine, that’s gives no sense to produced so specialised glow plug. G5 perfectly works with a lot of other OS, Saito, etc. gas powered 4 stroke engines, and nor only gas powered, but with methanol based fuel engines, too. I was checked this on several different engines. Not sure, how long it will work with non specified applications ( methanol based fuel), I was spent dozens of hours to run it with any changes of performance.
Thank you very much for your comment !
@@crazyengines88 when the engine was tuned not a few years ago they specified that this spark plug should only be used for the ggt series
Eu usei no meu saito fg 14cc, ficou perfeito, adeus ignição.😂😂
You always achieve a remarkably low idle, do you set the valve lash at the minimum specified value?
Is your gas to oil ratio 20:1, which is 5% oil, or 20% oil?
Thank you very much for your comment! Exactly in this case ( Saito FG 21 on gas mix fuel), all carb settings were on factory default settings. Specially didn’t touch carb settings to clarify factory adjustments, that’s could be the reason, why engine doesn’t shows high RPM, was afraid of potentially lean run. Should say that on gas fuel engine runs noticeably hotter. Regarding fuel - oil mix, I’m adding 20% on synth oil by volume. It means, that on 100 ml of gasoline I adding 20ml of oil, by volume.
@@crazyengines88 I think it’s too much, if I remember correctly, 5% oil is enough since gasoline is a kind of lubrifiant. With methanol you need about 20%, but on gas a 1/20 mixture will do the job (equivalent of 5/100)
It should be written in the manual
@@remigoldbach9608 Thank you for your comment, and yes, it is, 20% was too much. I've not so much experience with gasoline engines, so I just over secured by significant increasing the "%" of oil in fuel mix and this was only once. Next gas engines runs were with the classic 15: 1 or 20: 1 ratio.
@@crazyengines88 no problem! I’m not so experienced either, but my father had done some tests with conversions.
I like your videos and appreciate all the tests!
The engine will get higher RPM with lower oil on the next run.
Keep going ! :)
@@remigoldbach9608 Thank you very much for your comments, it's really kind of a feedback, which is highly appreciated. I definitely knows, that less oil will push engine to the higher RPM's, of course. Thank you for being with CrazyEngines !
What is compresion ratio by that engine what fuels you use did you try out fog mashine ore fuel vaporisator on that engine?
Hi and thank you for your question ! I should say, that Saito FG21 has sufficient high compression ratio, according to my feeling, when turning engine trough TDC. Unfortunately, couldn't find exact figures in engine manual. That's the reason, why I'm starting it with electric stater. Regarding your question about fog machine or vaporizator - I didn't try this yet. With best regards !
Thanks for response Im working on similar projects I belive those engines culd by lot improved and their economy some of the old military tehnology culd by adopted to those engines like plazma/amplifier dual ignition ore electric motor asistance ore methanol water.
Those are some nice staff Im not shure but I belive those are larger bore to stroke ratio engines perhaps they culd by coated ore stranghter their metal body parts to take more heat. Like all engines one day it will by hard to finde parts for them.
You might consider useing fuel aditives some engines dont like high rich ethanol fuel it will burn eventualy the gaskets ore coat the gaskets with some protection from oxidation. Its nice to see some one makeing those videos wish you good luck 👍
@@MechanicForGMCCars Thank you very much, appreciated for your kind comments ! I'm also sure, that this engines still have a lot of hidden potential, just need enough time to reveal it all. I'm sure, that some non electric engines will be necessary could be irreplaceable in some military or special conditions. I know some companies, which are working on improvement of 4 stroke engine power unit ( which includes engine, starter - generator and cooling \ warming unit for wide temperature environment. What is interesting - most of this power modules utilize Saito FG 84 engine, with some special improvements.
Looking at buying one of these, would you say it had as much power as it's glo version?
Hi, thank you for your question ! Definitely, FG 21 is very similar to its glow "brother", like Saito FA 125. To be more precisely, its's like a FA 128 (of course, it isn't really exist in Saito 4 stroke glow line), as 1,28 cubic inch size. So, the power will be similar or a bit higher, than FA 125.
@@crazyengines88 Thanks for your reply, did you have difficulty tuning the FG21? I've heard on a few RC forums the Saito "gas" engines can be hard to tune, this has put me off buying one.
@@Desertduleler_88Yes, I’ve got some difficulties when tuning it, but this is just a question of collecting knowledge about engine behavior. Saito’s gas carb was much “sharper” in tuning, than traditional glow carb. This was one of the reasons, why I was started this test run cycle with glow ignition setup ( carb and fuel). Additionally, received some requests from my sub’s to explore glow conversion. I think, that glow fuel setup with spark ignition is the best choice from the point of view of engine performance and stabile run.
What propellor size you used in the test?
Hi, thank you for your comment ! As far, as I remember, it should be 18” by MAS.
Do you change o'rings in the carburator?
Hi and thank you for your question. Definitely, not, there was no need to change O-rings.
Thank you and have a nice day !
How much thrust can it produce ?
Thank you for your question ! I've not the opportunity to measure its thrust, but by indirect characteristics we can judge its capabilities. My copy developed up to 9K RPM with a MAS 16x6 prop, on methanol based fuel. On gasoline, the top RPM's were lower, in 8K revs area. I also should say, that on gas fuel engine runs significantly hotter. My personal opinion - glow fuel with spark ignition. Unfortunately, most expensive one. But definitely the best also.
@@crazyengines88
Most definitely i also agree glow fuel with spark ignition is most reliable and the engine runs at good temperature..also get more run time as spark ignition creates a better combustion..
But for price sake a gas engine will use half the fuel of methanol..i have no doubt the gas engines will still last a long time ..and cheaper and also alot cleaner..i can keep my much loved expensive saito radial biplanes in the house with no smell...great job on this video..the g5 glow plug is definitely universal 👌
@@danielhitchens4407 Thank you very much for your comment !
Absolutely agree, no words.
But firstly, this is a matter of choice, and often money decides a lot in choice. Well, if you imagine that I'm a romantic, I love the smell of methanol fuel, I'm used to having a jacket and a floor on the terrace richly treated by Klotz or Motul engine oil. And if you imagine that my wife does not mind at all, then I would choose an old school theme, for sure. You have to be true to yourself and not change your dream, unless, of course, finances allow such behavior.
Thanks again for your comment, I really appreciate it.
I should tell you, that I can't forget this amazing combination - spark ignition with glow fuel, and I continue experimenting with this combo. Next time soon, I hope, would like to present new combo. Please, stay tuned !
Thank you very much and have a nice day !
@@crazyengines88 such perfect words..i do love the perfume aroma of methanol/klotz..it is a truly distinctive smell..when flying i do lots of fly by,s and the trail of smoke is also awesome..you got lucky to have a partner that doesn't mind the smell😎
@@danielhitchens4407 Thank you very much ! Definitely, Klotz engine oil has a special, well recognized smell.
It becomes wide popular through RC modelers. I found, that Maria Klotz made some special candles, with authentic Klotz Techniplate smell.
Hand made !
klotzlube.com/shop/ols/products/klotz-candle
I'm owning one
I think I just released some wee
Hi, I can't recognized, unfortunately, what do you want to ask or comment ? Is it was a statement or something else ? I'll answer you, of course, if I'll get a question. Thank you and have a nice day !