The Weird Phenomenon of Youtube Redemption Arcs...
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2024
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TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 ----- Intro
4:02 ----- What is a redemption arc?
7:56 ---- The First Ingredient
13:01 ---- The Second Ingredient
16:07 ---- The Third Ingredient
18:06 ---- Why Don't CZcamsrs Leave?
21:25 ---- When a redemption arc doesn't work
26:52 ---- Why do we fall for this?
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I think sometimes the youtuber gets their “redemption arc” because the audience doesn’t really think that what they did was bad, or at least That Bad. They call it a redemption arc, but they treat it more like a Victory Over Cancel Culture. They just don’t want to get Canceled (tm) too
“Victory over cancel culture” is SUCH a fantastic way of putting it!
I certainly fell for Shane’s antics because I wanted for someone who I’d watched for so long to be GOOD and I didn’t want to realize I had been so easily manipulated. Everyone else though, I never watched or had a connection with - so I never believed their bullshit. Like Tati’s videos were so trash I rolled my eyes the whole time.
yes! their audience just wants permission to continue supporting them publicly. they don't care about the contents of the apology. just look at how many stans say "they apologized! what more do you want?!"
Not James Charles lol
@@alexisjones2045 that there's the sunk cost fallacy. Which is also a big factor here. People dedicate time and emotional investment to these people and so if the thing or person they have invested in is a shitty person then you think to yourself how does this impact on me, what does it say about me? So when you're offered a way to show that actually you weren't wrong you'll grab at it. That's not your fault, it's human nature.
people tend to view celebrities and influencers as characters, not people, and a redemption arc is much easier to expect and want from a character than it is a person.
Why does this make so much sense
I think it's the prominence of redemption arcs in our media now days.
@@zhenye7402 exactly. every villain in popular media is always redeemed, and so people expect that from people that they view as villains now. it's not realistic, because influencers aren't villains from a Star Wars movie, they're *real* people who did *awful* things.
Exactly, this is what happens when famous people lives are turn into entertainment.
@@thomasthegoatofsatan2754 YUPPP
Can we just stop calling them documentaries? They are glorified vlogs. I sae the entire JS series, and not ever once did i think it was anything other than a vlog
this.
this!!
Thank youuuuuuuuuuu I've been thinking this for years
please. they were so well researched! they have such a new perspective on really interesting topics! they were shane’s art - his way of expressing himself by revealing that most personal of things: the world through his eyes.
lol jk they’re crap
@@mtlewis973 I thought you were serious for a second and oh did I have few choice words in mind 😅
I think we forgive youtubers to preserve our own emotions as well. We want to believe that we invested our time and emotions into good people and forgiving them in a way let’s us forgive ourselves for liking someone who did something so bad.
I feel like we also just forget things? Like I can’t remember half the shit that even went down with Shane Dawson
Thats such a good point! I think so many of us feel guilty for having invested our time and knowingly contributing money to these people who then turned out to be absolute trash. We don't want that to be the case, we don't want our praise and attention and our monetary value to have been wasted on somebody so horrible so we constantly try to find any good peace of them we can even if that's fabricated. And then so many of these people have had multiple scandals and controversies and when they've been on CZcams for 10 years, 12 years, whatever, it starts to blur and unless you go through and research every single thing you're kind of like "oh well the last thing happened but they apologized so we can forgive them"
Right?? I really wanted to believe JS was a changed person while repeatedly watching the first vlog series because I looked to him as inspiration to start my own beauty brand but ultimately he was/is trash and I’m so glad I didn’t start a beauty brand
I’ve been having my own redemption arc. I’m two years sober, just paid off my warrant, and I got promoted to assistant manager at work. I’m also working on being a better mother.
That is amazing 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Congrats on two years!!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 keep up the hard work I’m sure you’re doing amazing ❤️
congratulations, that's amazing!!!
You are going to be great!!! Not every day will be good, you will fail in some parts, but you will stand up again and you will fix every small fail. Sometimes you just need to look at yourself and notice how the fail is less painful, and how you change what you are working on at the moment... And you will see that you moved forward... You will be great, and you are great...
Congratulations! 🥰 We love to see it 💪🏼
Gabbie was almost handed a redemption arc after videos of the Vlog Squad mocking her appearance came out and people were sympathetic towards her, but she ruined the opportunity to "take advantage" of that sympathy and gain trust back with her recent antics.
yup, she could have exposed shane dawson for telling him that std rumor about trisha, could have exposed David dobrik for being a bully, could have exposed jeffree star for still being a racist, but instead she choose to attack a girl for review her poetry hook, which gabby sent her btw and someone else for liking a tweet. SMH
She really dropped the ball on that one lol. That’s how I know she doesn’t have a PR agent.
@@nomanejane5766 she’s honestly such a coward when it comes to who she calls out. Every time she says “I’m speaking my truth and talking about those who wronged me!!” she either talks about viewers or smaller creators, or she’s not the first to drop names. Even in the Trisha thing, she didn’t have the balls to drop Trisha’s name; Trisha did it herself. But when Gabbie is gonna call out the behavior of a small creator or viewers criticizing her, she’ll quote tweet them and @ them and drop screenshots with nothing blurred. She’s vengeful and cruel. She abuses the power she has left.
yeah she totally messed that one up but I had enuff of her when Jessie came out with her video talking about what gabbie did to her. she's just looking nuts and u never attack someone who has every right to not like ur work. It looks unprofessional.
@@sherryelle225 same, the situation with Jessie really made me not like her
Okay, I love this video. The sentiment... I AM HERE FOR IT. But also, can you not pretend like your hair doesn't look INCREDIBLE? Okay thanks. You're my fav. Bye.
Omg this is the best crossover ever! Love you both
ahh not my two most trusted favorite youtubers together in one place
Omg love this.
Stopppp I’ve been watching your channel FOREVER😍😍😍 thank you for the love queen 💓
And her brows look amazing too! It’s the little details ✨
I haven’t checked in on tana in forever but hearing she’s starting a talent agency is not surprising. She always finds a way to get her bag
I wonder how long that will last she's notorious for never being on time and not being a responsible person in general
@@alexandran6009 If she hires people to run the business for her and only lends her name to it, it could actually work.
She’s thrifty I’ll give her that lmao
ya but all her ways to get a bag are always scams, her lingerie, her fake charity, tanacon etc...
Didn’t she do something like this in the past called the trash channel and it ended up going horribly and being abandoned? Lol
I love that transition of angry Hannah back to the calm Hannah from the scene she put in
ITS KILLING ME LMAOOO
Me too…that made me laugh 😂
I came here to say that LMAOOOOOOOOO
Those always amuse me 😁
Loving the makeup and hair...gorgeous ❤
Man, Trisha did a great job of a redemption arc! But here's the thing, I don't think they did it on purpose. Like yeah they started the podcast with Ethan, but not with the intention of being redeemed. To me it happened naturally. And I think that's the last secret ingredient - that the "redemption arc" doesn't seem forced to the audience and it just naturally happens. Which is why it's not working for Gabby for example is because it seems forced even with the best of intentions, so the public perception of Gabbie isn't going to change.
Edit: Edited my comment to use the correct pronouns when referring to Trisha 💞
That’s a really really fantastic point. People can absolutely tell when something seems fake.
I think we also have been let into Trisha’s personal life a bit more to the point where we know that she grew up around such toxicity that it took her a very long time to actually realise how wrong all the shit she was doing was.
She had such self hatred that she loved negative attention,
And when someone is like that, you learn that they’re not actually the piece of shit they made themselves out to be.
Yes! I actually feel like for her it’s genuine, and that’s the secret sauce! Good point 🤗
I'm going to say it you don't actually have to forgive somebody when they apologise. And you also don't have to go out of your way to hate that either. OS in this case I believe your 100% right and this happened very naturally. She actually has grown and changed is a real human being Something a lot of creators don't do.
i disagree with this. i think they saw public sentiment on tiktok start to turn positive and they watched the videos of what people liked and leaned into it.
This is a repeat of the 2000's
Whenever a celebrity got into controversy TLC or MTV would give them a reality show to "show a new side of them"
Then it bombs, everyone forgets the controversy and moves onto the next thing
omg yes
The thing with Shane Dawson and his "documentaries" that kills me is that all of Shane's b/s was out in the wild. Black people had been calling out Shane FOR YEARS for the violent anti-Blackness he displayed in his earlier videos, but it was only after he and Skeletor's gay cousin tried to frame James Charles that he had to answer for that shit.
skeletor's gay cousin 💀
THANK YOU!! I was rolling my eyes at how everyone was EATING that Jeffree “documentary” up. I couldn’t talk about the racism because everyone would shove the series in my face saying “look he’s changed”
And Skeletor isn't even the black sheep of the family!
This. Exactly this. People don’t wanna unpack the extreme racial disparity in who gets to have a redemption arc, and who was impacted by their actions. Usually the thing that gets influencers cancelled is hurting the feelings of another white influencer, not harming marginalized communities
Alternative: take a sip of water every time Hannah says “redemption” bc we deserved to be hydrated and feeling good! 💕
We love a supportive fellow subscriber 👏 as one who likes to stay hydrated, this is very fun, especially with Selzer water
Your mind 🤩
Yes yes YES!
Also keep a bathroom nearby
Can I just say, I legit did this, and met my daily goal of drinking half a gallon. Solid advice right there 👌🏼
i was so suspicious when after ONE video, everyone was back to being a fan of jeff. like, ONE video. he's definitely a victim, but he was also an active participant in a lot of gross stuff.
Cause a lot people only want to openly admit they share the popular opinion, so they were waiting for the table to turn. It’s easier to go with the flow than go against the grain- but it’s easiest to just not go on Twitter 🤷🏻♀️
@@breana2734 facts but also they see themselves in the words and actions of these people so they want the public to forgive them and dont hold them truly accountable BC they wouldn't want that to be done to them if and when they do/say similar shit.
I think it's easier for a lot of people to dismiss the role he played in the situation since all he did was buy the drinks (still horrible and illegal) which he denies. There are people who still don't think David should be held accountable in the Dom situation and now with Jeff's injury, and his part in this is a lot more sinister than Jeff's in my opinion, so I'm not surprised that the minute fans were "allowed" to have sympathy for Jeff they were quick to brush his past actions to the side.
in what world is jeffree star the victim
@@ReemadreeMonzur I don't think they're talking about Js - I think its to do with David dorbrik
As a European I feel like redemption arcs are more popular in the US, then in other societies. Maybe it has something to do with the from rags to riches narrative, that there is an underlying expectation, that everybody can come back from everything, if they only do it right. Loved the video...
Agreed. I'm honestly just over all these youtubers. I've never liked them and I know dislike them ever more. They've all been problematic and they're all cancelled in my eyes.
It's a very Christian thing.
America is the land of second chances
If their redemption arc is not as good as Zukos I don't want it 🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️
ABSOFUCKINGLYTELY. They DRAGGED him to filth for YEARS before he got any peace or rest. I mean he did commit war crimes so...
Was just gonna say that!! 😂
A redemption arc like General Iroh I. He was a general for the fire nation committing*actual* war crimes for *years* and he is very much loved.
These influencers have hoards of yes-men surrounding them. Whether they do something right, wrong, illegal, or just in bad taste...their entire circle is validating their actions.
Im 16 minutes in and i've drank a whole 500ml bottle of water 😂
I also think that's something that's preventing a lot of influencers from actually growing as people. Of course there are some things that are just objectively so gross (think blatantly illegal stuff) that an adult should be able to tell on their own that it was fucked up. But if we're talking about 'minor offences' that were maybe more in poor taste than anything else then yeah, I think having a bunch of people in my life and online who defend me and my actions would make me go 'Well it can't have been that wrong if there's so many people telling me that it's okay' - which becomes a problem when fans base their judgement on their liking of the person and not on the actual given situation on hand.
@@minkamausi9285 *cough* glamandgore *cough*
The views validate the bad behavior too
I feel like there's also a sprinkle of (American) cultural ego that plays a role in how influencers get away with harmful behaviour.
the only part of Shane's Tanacon "documentary" i can remember is Tana pretending to cry on the couch while Shane tried not to laugh...
Gabbie is the friend that you have that you try and set boundaries with and she repeatedly ignores them. Instead of just doing her thing she’s trying to control everything which is a major red flag in and of itself and I also think that’s why this “redemption arc” for her it’s not working
When Gabbie was quoted as calling others narcissistic, that was also a red flag that *she* is actually narcissistic. The boundary violation and need for control you describe in your comment only makes me suspect it even more!
It’s so wild to see someone just dig their own grave deeper when she could have had a semi-successful relationship if she had stopped just ONCE to say “you know, what I did at this time was not right and I take accountability”
Whenever she seems like she is about to take some accountability the next thing’s out her mouth are “I was hungry” or “my ADHD.”
Every time hannah says "i could make a whole video on that" im like, i would like to see it
Hannah I think you should get an honorary Master’s degree in internet anthropology, good lord this was a good video
University of Michigan has a PhD program similar to this!
I can honestly see something like this becoming real all over the world as we get deeper and deeper into the world of social media. I’m always really intrigued by the mental aspect of it!
@@celinenoelle2139 there is a channel that does that. Forgot his name tho but he comes in with all his college notes
@@Hersheychocolate12 I think it’s Looks By Liam!
@@xuanlephant39 thank you! I’ll have to check it out
omg when you said "you don't know me, this is a parasocial relationship" it was a very weird snapping back to reality, which is absolutely the point. it felt very odd to be addressed personally.
Right!! Yet it was so important
Someone else pointed out that we tend to look at celebrities and CZcamsrs not as people, but as characters-
Redemption arcs are part and parcel of the Hero's Journey and storytelling in general-- and people love a good underdog/comeback story.
“The helpless leasing the clueless” I ALMOST SPAT OUT THE WATER I WAS DRINKING
Manny MUA has done a great job of salvaging his career after a scandal.
It was a good move for him to stay low-key for a period and not associate again with famously problematic people (as far as I know)
The only acceptable redemption arc is Hannah getting her candle of the day out at the start after she used to always forget lmao
Tea
@@smokey_glow 💕
The hair.....just the hair. You don't understand. I'm OBSESSED!
Right? The colour is gorgeous
She said she hates it in the last vid. 😂
@@camillefaith2005 yeah but she said she was getting it fixed. I'm assuming she did since she's wearing it down. Either way, I think she looks great.
It looks so good!
it looks absolutely gorgeous
I’m sorry for interrupting this important video but i just can’t stop sharing at the “mom i am a rich man” wall art behind Hannah lol
omg i didnt even notice but now i want!
I think sometimes people want this whole almost cinematic happy ending where a person owns up to their mistakes and becomes a better person, but a lot of people aren’t mature enough to understand that isn’t often how it works in real life and it’s definitely not that simple so they end up giving people way too much leeway and undeserved forgiveness.
I love that now, when the creator puts timestamps on the description of the video we can see the subtitle of the timestamp on screen. It feels lime reading a book with different chapters
Best thing CZcams has done in years
Also can we talk about how when Shane's drama with the beauty community started, lots of smaller youtubers gave him the benefit of the doubt or an easier time because he was their "friend" who talked to them or commented on their videos? I found that alarming when it all started and NOBODY has talked about that.
a point I hadn't considered....but now that you point it out... TRUE!!!!
I dont get it
@@Onatakosha shane got on their good sides so they wouldn’t go hard on him. i believe that’s a form of love bombing.
I remember that, it's never good news when large youtubers "befriends" smaller commentary channels
@@Onatakosha Shane abused his power by making smaller CZcamsrs feel special since this big name noticed them. Do that, and a lot f smaller CZcamsrs will be afraid to speak against someone since it can end them. He could easily have said he was SO NICE to X, and then X went and turned on him, and X’s career would have been over.
A lot of these creators have a fan base that is mostly children. Children are very forgiving, and I think these toxic influencers know & take advantage of that.
I find the topic of para-social relationships so interesting. In 2014, I writ a dissertation on the effects of para-social relationships with youtubers/bloggers(before the term "influencers" was a thing) for my final year project at uni and I couldn't find any research on the topic for online parasocial relationships. Most of it was based on parasocial relationships with tv show characters. I'm sure if I conducted that same research today, I'd have a ton of sources. I'd like to think I was ahead of my time lol
“Maybe you should manage your expectations” on these influencers.
Sorry I had too 😂😂
LOVE IT
I think another reason CZcamsrs don’t want to leave after scandals (especially bigger creators) is that they’ve made CZcams, this job, their whole lives and don’t have that separation of work and home life. So at the thought of not doing CZcams they might wonder what else is there because they’ve made it their whole world.
I also think that not every one of them would be able to retire because of the speed they're spending their money its like the real housewives of beverly hills so many of those people live beyond their means just to be able to show off and hang with the wealthy. Maybe some of them are responsible with their money but others think that this income stream is forever so they have car loans and mortgages to pay for these huge properties which they might not be able to sustain with less money
that’s a good point
Logan Paul has also had a really interesting redemption arch because sometimes it seems like he’s really matured since 2018, but then he’ll do/say something to make you question how sincere his growth is
Honestly I think part of it is that we want to forgive ourselves for having supported them in the past. If we can convince ourselves that they’ve changed, we can convince ourselves that there’s no need to feel guilty for having supported them.
i think trisha paytas’ redemption arc feels a lot more natural than the corny docuseries attempts. frenemies certainly helped but her own self help, going to therapy, and staying more lowkey in recent years shows growth to me
A part that I more recently noticed about Trisha is that they has people to corroborate their side with. I realized last year, when they walked off the frenemies set, that they has been truthful in the situations where they was involved in (not including the Stephanie Soo situation). Yes, they has harmed several communities with their antics but they hasn't lied about dangerous situations.
I honestly hope that Trisha can continue being happy in this new situation. They appear to be in a great place.
i definitely agree, it feels so natural and you can tell on frenemies that even though trish does kinda play into their “dumb blond’ personality that trish really does take what ethan says and learns from it
@@chinenyeachusiogu1418 Thank you. I am honestly confused that people seem to be forgiving everything that trisha has done in the past. Just becasue they are in *less* controversies now, does not mean that trisha get a pass for all of the outright harm stuff that they have done in the past. Trisha has been going off on Gabby for the last few weeks in the same way that they used to in the past and just becasue Gabby is also not a great person people seem to be willing to see Trisha as a changed person. but honestly i dont. And i struggle to see why other people do.
@@alexisc3658 1000 percent agree with you! Also she’s said a couple of things that lead me to believe that she doesn’t actually care about becoming a better person, she just wants to avoid being canceled at all costs now that she has a somewhat good reputation
Trisha hasn’t even apologized for what she’s done
Trisha has also talked about how they go to dbt groups three times a week and does individual therapy to be a better person... I think that's a big part of it
Maybe she can bring up that time she heiled hitler and work on that
@@soggypizzapi8794 thanks, but we knew they were problematic already. We are also on the internet.
**edited to change pronouns
It's so silly to see people try to construct a sentence that doesn't flow and sucks to read just to make sure they refer to Trisha as "they" which isn't grammatically correct and doesn't actually mean anything. Trisha is very obviously a girl. She looks like a girl, like the most feminine girl imaginable.
@@jenniboo9441Ohhhh so we are going to disrespect their preferred pronouns too? Sara has a real concern. You are being a jack ass. ☺️
@@hannahbeanies8855 you are being silly. People who buy into this nonsense are people who aren't unique or special enough on their own so they have to create a way to stand out and seem interesting.
When I think of redemption arcs, the first thing that come to mind is Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender
I think what’s cool about Trisha and Ethan is that they both hold each other accountable and both have something to learn from one another. Ethan is so much more caring of mental health, advocating for victims, etc because of Trisha and I think it’s really cool! He also holds Trisha accountable and let her tell her full story.
I hadn't watched Shane since I was a teenager and when I watched the Tanacon series it rubbed me the wrong way. I couldn't understand why it got so much positive feedback, I thought it was so transparent from the start!
I think a lot of people lack a strong understanding of research/journalism. It takes some training to notice when info is skewed/biased!
In the Tanacon series Shane did, he included a clip of Tana saying, "People love to be oppressed outside" but then proceeded to try and redeem her, and it always felt wrong to me.
People who gave positive feedback likely weren’t aware of the manipulation. Tana’s audience is what, 14 year olds? IDK
wait a second how long ago was this? it feels like a year or two ago 😢 why is time going so fast ugh
@@juniperusvloggus I think a big part of it is that the CZcams community has become increasingly young over the years. Even though Shane’s prime was more during the youth of millennials, young children can still find his content and create that parasocial relationship. I remember thinking famous people I liked were *saints* when I was 12 or whatever. It would have been really hard to convince me otherwise. It’s sad. That’s why I hate that these creators try to deflect and distract rather than address their behavior at great length and why it’s harmful so their audience can understand that.
Hannah said in her last video that she was insecure with how her hair looked but it's literally so beautiful
She does have great hair
Say whaaaaat?! Her hair looks so healthy and gorgeous. 😍
I saw or heard something recently on how the rise of "cancel culture" correlates quite well with the way that the concept of time has shifted on the internet. Everything is happening Right Now, Always. So while a celebrity may have tweeted something fucked up five years ago, they've experienced the passage of time between the current moment and writing & posting that tweet. And five years feels like a very long time. But for viewers/fans/audience members, the way we experience a tweet is more or less the same no matter when that fits in to our own lives. I open twitter, I read the tweet, I react to it. That interaction is not changed by the passage of five years. It's very easy to feel like that tweet is Happening Right Now. Because for me, it is.
I think that is very interesting when it comes to redemption arcs, because I saw clips of Laura Lee's (in)famous apology video many times before I knew anything about her, including what she was even apologizing for. So, if that had been a well done and convincing apology, I might have subconsciously forgiven her without knowing any of the context around that apology video.
On the flip side of that coin, I fell for a lot of shane dawson's manipulative tactics in his "documentary" vlogs and due to the parasocial relationship I'd developed with him, I tried harder to forgive him for his wrongdoings than I would have if it was some random creator who I didn't know anything about. But when D'Angelo Wallace dropped his video on shane, all of the receipts, all of the clips, all of the documented crimes, I was experiencing so much of that for the first time ever, and for me, it was all happening in the same day.
I think that's a big part of why big videos like that one are so effective at getting a point across and shifting public opinion. I had been vaguely aware of shane's problematic past while enjoying his content, but it was a reference here and an out of context clip there and so it always Felt to me like individual, isolated incidents. But seeing it all at once made the patterns of behavior so painfully clear, and in shane's case, it's patterns of the same shitty behavior spanning like ten years all the while plenty of people are calling him out on it and trying to explain to him what he's doing wrong. The other videos like D'Angelo's that I've seen seem to have similar effects (albeit perhaps on smaller scales). I really wish my emotional experience of time wasn't so influential in my perception of whether or not people deserve redemption arcs, but alas.
I feel like Laura Lee is one of the only youtubers who wasn’t able to have a comeback after their first (I think) offense. I wonder why it was that way for her and no one else.
I don't understand x Laura Lee has 5 million subs and still posts regularly and is sponsored etc she stills pulls in loads of views. I watch her content. I like her. I wonder why people think she didn't make a comeback? I think maybe she stopped associating with people who create drama and thus has avoided the attention of drama channels for awhile.
She was in the group who were up against J* whom, at the time, was experiencing a major upswing in popularity and respect. Many of those who went against J* during that time didn’t fully recover from it. He was being backed by Shane Dawson and most of the beauty community at that time, including James Charles. All three people who had heavy influence, respect, and power at that time. Even though Star, Dawson, and Charles have since lost their power, people have moved on to their newer scandals and forgotten Laura was even collateral in one of their earlier scandals.
It’s really sad when you put it in perspective; all she did was pose for a Kardashian-inspired picture that another person in the group chose to aim at J*; simply saying they were better off without him (which was true). Star’s fans/followers/stans drudged up her problematic past (which was no worse than Star’s) and his influence, at the time, took care of the rest.
@@shelley2he844 she doesn’t pull in the same amount of views that she used to. Don’t get me wrong, she’s still successful. But is she at the level she was at about 4-5 years ago? Not at all.
yeah, i remember hearing about her constantly back in the day, but now i almost never hear about her. i think what stifled her comeback the most was her disastrous apology video. the mass consensus was that it seemed incredibly disingenuous and strange (especially when apologizing for racism...), and a lot of people consider it one of the worst apology videos ever made. her channel was growing exponentially before the scandal, and i think it was specifically that apology video that turned off a large chunk of the community and scarred her image. clearly she still has fans, but she's nowhere near as popular as she could have been if she had a complete comeback
Welllllll, I don't forgive people randomly using the N word like it's part of their everyday vocabulary... I don't think a lot of POCs do
I also think that part of the parasocial relationship is that people put themselves in these influencers' shoes, and start asking themselves - What am I doing right now that is harmful or toxic, and would I be able to apologize and recover from something stupid I'm doing now? Of course, everyone recognizes that these influencers are navigating a much more grand version (it's online, it's documented, it's usually really terrible behavior, it doesn't only affect friends or people who you can personally apologize to), but I think people are vested in a redemption, because they want to be reassured that they can be forgiven for something being done now. And this idea is particularly relevant because of all of the social movements calling out people for past bad behavior towards marginalized groups. Just my two cents. (Also, love the video essay style!)
I agree! I think additionally these viewers/fans don't take into account the larger context and the influence these people have. Like how Shane wasn't just telling racist jokes to a small group of friends, he was actively putting on minstrel shows and exposing kids to that content which on the whole, is a lot worse.
I think we as humans forgive so easily is because we like to see people who are “imperfect” or “have their flaws” because we all would want forgiveness or a second chance. Also, especially in American culture, we love a comeback story or a redemption story it’s basically become an American value. We see it in films, we listen to it in music so we basically manifest forgiveness as if everyone deserves it.
I took a drugs/addiction class and tbh alcohol addiction always seemed like the worst one to me for a bunch of reasons. Props to you for getting out of that.
Video sponsored by hello fresh.
Hannah: you need a recipe for redemption.
I see what you did there. 😂
When I saw that Jeff was getting a redemption Arc I was like "This man does not need one - he was an active participant in something bad."
what would have made his arc more appropriate, is that he acknowledge his actions in not saying anything about the SA and him trying to discredit people from coming out with it. Idk Im willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and give him the space to grow.
@@fadalerabrasool3563 Honestly, I don’t get this. This Jeff guy has shown pretty much over and over again that he doesn’t respect boundaries? Like, I remember back when he had Jake Paul confront Cody Ko completely off guard, and all the ire went to Jake Paul and none of it to Jeff for putting a vulnerable person in a potentially dangerous situation against their knowledge. From my understanding, Cody had zero idea that Jake Paul would show up, and tho it’s a small thing it clearly demonstrates a pattern of content > everything else. Content > respecting others. Content > boundaries. But I feel like bc this guy is so well liked, even when it’s come out he’s done something as horrible as buy alcohol for non consenting women for the sake of getting them to agree for content, people want to forgive them when he hasn’t changed and he doesn’t deserve forgiveness. He’s just as bad as David Dobrik imo, but for some reason, no one seems to notice it
@@gucciasalways i would say he’s slightly better than david since he wasn’t a direct perpetrator in a lot of things but rather a bystander/accomplice
@@lunamoon6390 Eh, ig that’s down to personal morality, but for me, being a bystander is marginally “less bad” than committing the action (and that’s only depending on circumstances), and there’s zero point between differentiating between an accomplice and the main perpetrator, at least in this case. To help someone with something that despicable indicates that you either don’t understand or care about the seriousness of sexual assault, and that’s not the kind of person I’d trust to not go on to commit a sexual assault by their own will 🤷🏽♀️
This is probably gonna sound random but i LOVE how you get to the point in all of your videos. Like you dont take 4+ minutes to just say fluff and then get to the video. Its my hugest pet peeve and the majority of youtubers do that. Thank you, your videos are sooo satisfying to watch
Another reason the ‘trustworthy friend’ trope is so effective is because it allows viewers to believe that a CZcamsr will be held accountable in their personal life. When Shane backed up tana, viewers were led to believe that Shane would guide tana even after the video was over, which made it easier to forgive her because we believed the change was sustainable. It was not :(
Oh thank you for not having the Gabbie audio. She’s triggering for me so thank you. She’s acting like an abuser I had when I was younger and the moment she starts laughing and screaming I want to die. I’ve had to fast forward so many commentary videos lately 🥺
this! it’s so scary to hear Gabbie say these things and post them on her public story-thank gosh for the double tap fast forward feature! I hope you’re doing well❤️
I stopped at the word abuser to press to see the full comment but I hadn’t read further and I was like “yes she is” but then I read the rest of the sentence and I’m so sorry :(
@@MiniMeags I'm so sorry, I hope you are now doing better and free. May I ask what's with the audio scandal of gabbie hanna?
Why is everyone triggered? I don't understand.
She triggers me too.
"don't take a shot every time i say 'redemption' or 'arc'" oh honey i'm saving that as a drinking game
I’m mimosa-ing it up rn so let’s go 😂
Theres another common thread with a lot of failed redemption arcs / repeat offenders: rude tweets. If you go through the motions to apologize to others and explain yourself and then follow that up with tweets calling people out and being rude/haughty/exasperated, etc, the public won't see you favourably. My advice after a 'redemption'? Be quiet, be humble, and realise peoples eyes are on you. James for example: he'd already been through TWO apologies and he still messages underage guys. You'd think he would remember the last couple of years and just not risk it but no. If you're truly apologetic and want to SHOW change, maybe keep low for awhile. I think that'd help a proper redemption arc being successful and long term
My dog also refuses to be potty trained. I feel you girl 🤦🏻♀️🙄 still waiting for her redemption arc....
Thing is I’ve totally fallen for the CZcams apologies that looking back now we’re obviously full of crap. Personally I’m a very naive person and most of the time forgive people way too easily. I hope in the future I can better see through the bullshit 🤷🏼♀️
I feel you on this. It doesn’t always get easier when you get older. I still have this problem. Hence why I’m here to have someone point out all the problems.
same :( i think a lot of us really just try to see the best in people, sometimes to a fault.
i’m the exact same. i always have to hear other people’s opinions of the apology to see if i’m overlooking things again and trusting the influencer since they said the right things for me to fall into the trap.
same, i am at least glad it made me realize how gullible i am/ hopefully was?
Same here. I'm super naive and have a hard time picking up nuances. That's why I like it when people like Hannah explain in a "matter of fact" what is good and bad, so I can make my own perception of the issue (soz just took medicine so ima bit loopy, not sure im getting my point across)
1) you said it best, not everyone needs (or deserves) redemption.
2) you look especially glowy and beautiful on this.
ETA: Thank you for sharing that but about yourself, I really admire you and it’s great to see someone other people look up to talk about the difficult parts of the life, it takes a lot of pressure off of being perfect. You’re amazing, Hannah 💕
"All these people - time and time again 'Oh he's changed!' - who gives a shit?!"
You're right and you should say it. I don't get why people got upset about that. We literally don't owe influencers shit to constantly forgive them for wrongdoings.
I would also love to see a career of Jackie Aina. I’m sure you’re working on it but Jackie has had an interesting life and career. Plus Jackie deserves all the love and hype forever.
An Evolution of video for her would be *AMAZING!*
I keep forgetting! A long time ago at a Yankee candle store, I learned that if you trim down the wick of your candle, it will have a smaller flame therefore not as hot = burns longer! It works!
😊💜
Hay I just wanted to let you know that there aren’t any captions on this. I use captions and wanted to let you know for others that use them that are in the deaf communities!
Hi! So there should be now or at least soon. Sometimes youtube takes a minute to auto update them. I am working now on trying to get my videos professionally captioned and that should be starting soon! I’m so sorry for the inconvenience!
There have been a lot of channels without captions lately! My hearing is fine, but I have severe adhd and audio processing disorder and rely heavily on CC to comprehend videos.
It's awesome Hannah is looking to get her videos professionally captioned!
@@bridget663 same here! Not deaf but hard time processing. I wish more people have more than auto crap rooms.
@@bridget663 that’s the same with me my hearing is fine but it’s very very hard to process people speaking for me also because severe adhd lol. Especially with these videos it’s a great help. I’m also so happy that she’s going to get her videos captioned professionally!
@@crystalunicorn1501 ...when you already knew you had ADHD but didn't realize your "weird days" where you can't really process people talking is a symptom until a comment on a Smokey Glow video????? What the heck, thank you????? I love this community 😭
that last segment about the parasocial relationship between creators and audiences was ON my psych major ass is nodding aggressively
I think para social relationships are sooo interesting and I think shane is a good example of someone who used this dynamic to his advantage for a really long time as he presented as a sweet~relatable good guy like that shit was definitely intentional
I took a drink of water each time you said "redemption" "arc" and I'm hydrated for a week! Thanks! GH has no grounded basis in the fights she's picking. She's just picking fights with people who haven't done anything egregious. It is extraordinarily sad.
the one that really confuses me is the one with rachel oates. like GH sent oates her new poetry book and when oates said she didn't like it GH throws a tantrum even though everyone knows art (especially poetry) is super subjective! like getting criticism sucks yeah but authors get it all the time and have to get used to it
So cool!! Your voice (and really good points) from your james charles-video was used in a official Norwegian Radio News channel segment about youtube-coulture and the JC-case yesterday.
FBI needs to preemptively get on that "Tana's Angels Agency" shxt. Tana seems completely remorseless and could probably evolve into a Madame at some point.
I stopped watching the H3 podcast for about a year because they kept platforming super problematic people and it felt so weird when they kept having Trisha on but I recently started watching frenemies and it’s kinda wild to see such a difference in Ethan and Trisha. It’s genuinely heartening to hear them (Trisha) talking about therapy and the ways/people they have to work through their triggers. They’ve also set boundaries on the pod and their responses to online drama seem different lately. Ethan also gets so many lessons from Trisha about being gentle and more pc. I was super resistant to that redemption arc but I don’t know so far they’re really impressing me.
I haven't watched the podcast but i feel the opposite. Like the only way I'll start to forgive them is when they make a genuine apology to all the communities they hurt. It feels like everyone just forgot ab Trisha's past actions just bc they're seeing a therapist. But mental health doesnt excuse being racist. :/
Still watching but it's so ironic that Shane and Trisha were best friends but it took Ethan to redeem Trisha.
I think because so many people are now going to commentary channels to get their information supplied with an opinion, and often trust commentary creator's opinions to be more informed than their own, that youtubers in scandals will start turning to commentary channels in the hope they can be saved that way.
I agree and also if any commentary channels join up with these youtubers then they're instantly non-trustworthty
anytime she says “i can make a whole video about that” im like yes, please make a whole video about literally everything.
amazing video and insight as always!!
I think we fall for the redemption arcs because once we loved those CZcamsrs and we want the good things back. I think we want to have the little bit of happiness they gave us once back.
As you mentioned: we think they are our friends. Who wouldn't want to forgive their friends for the good parts?
But as you mentioned in this video, we don't want to see them on every drama channel because it can make us feel like they will never change. Going back to my first point about friends, we can't forgive a friend that harms others around us over and over again.
I personally believe this sort of redemption arc will slowly fade away because no one has time for the same mistake repeatedly.
I think it's also because we tend to see influencers as characters and expect them to have a happy ending and a redemption arc. Like chuck bass in gossip girl forced himself on multiple girls and was just an overall asshole but by the end people liked chuck and Blair more than serena and Dan who were supposed to be the main characters and kind of just forgive and forget everything chuck has done.
@@alexandran6009 in that case, it can be the bad boy stereotype. Women "love" bad boys so they want to change them and make them better.
Shane really did cause this complex of redeeming people even when they didn’t need redeeming or deserve it
I dont know that Shane did it first but he definitely seems to have been a frontrunner for redemption
i just turned 30. who knew i was too old for this internet drama "welcome to the internet" I'm grateful i missed this bit of the internet
I am so glad to hear you so openly talk about your alcohol recovery. I am a recovering alcoholic myself and was for years and years and I am just now almost at a year sober. Sobriety looks great on us! 😊
Congrats on your almost one year!
I think that as a society we just want to put people in the "good" or "bad" column. I think what the Shane documentaries did so well was show the human side to otherwise crappy people which made it harder to out and out hate them, especially if it seemed like they were "trying to be better".
I also think there's a sort of guilt that gets put on viewers if they don't agree with the redemption arc. I can't count how many time in JStar related threads I've see fans of his tell people to stop being "petty" and to just move on because he's changed🙄
I think Trisha has become a better and more responsible person in the past couple of years but it’s also important to keep in mind everything else she’s done.
She admitted to beating and sa Moses a few months ago. Shes the same.
@@ttc958 really wth what
@@mnabdvy3180 she didnt sexually assault moses (that was a lie perpetuated by the liar joysparklebs) but she did beat his arm once. Shes admitted to that and its wrong and no excuses. However, im also not moses and just hope hes not with someone violent and it wont happen again.
@@ttc958 that didn't happen a few months ago, it was about a year ago
She continues to be anti-Semitic so idk why people are giving her a pass
Your videos are SO good. It’s not just “drama”. They actually have depth and thought out behind them. Could watch you all day. Which I kinda have been!
Please do more of these! This one was really interesting and I like how analytical you are when you do deep dives into phenomena and topics like this
Ok, the cut to ranty Hannah at the start caught me off guard 😂
I have a small candle shop on Etsy I just started called starlight velas! I’d love to be the candle of the day, they’re based on the zodiac signs i think ud like... I love this channel you speak truth 😭😂❤️
That’s the insta too but I have like 60 followers 🥲
Ive been looking for small businesses to buy candles from! I'll check u out ♡
@@bambooisgr8 let us know what you think! I’m always hesitant to take recommendations from brand owners but I’d love to know if it’s a good product.
@@bambooisgr8 thank u!
I'll definitely check this out, candles based on zodiac signs sounds really interesting 🙂
I never knew you struggled with an alcohol addiction as a teen. That hits very close to home for me(specially a family member) and I appreciate you sharing your story. I'm proud of you for what you've overcome. 💖
your videos consistently blow me away - but this one especially was just such a well written, well analyzed, well stated essay. seriously so so so well done
My specific thing with how people say Shane Dawson has changed is that if you see any of his weird children’s content from 2015-2017 he has the EXACT same “sense of humor” as he did before. The only reason he stopped doing the outwardly racist content was it wasn’t doing super well on CZcams anymore.
I think it was either you or someone in the comments of another video that mentioned this, but I think we also fall for these redemption arcs because we, as human beings, just want to hope that people have learned and changed, and they’ve become better people that will ‘help’ others
5:30 I ma happy for you getting better and becoming a new person, so proud, I would love to hear more of this, I know it might be hard for you to tell that story again but maybe just general about how to take your shit TOGETHER and grow. I love how you talk about important issues.
The fact that everyone Gabbi has a bad experience with is automatically a abusive, manipulative, narcissistic person to me makes me think she's projecting cuz in reality she seems to fit that boat more. My mom has narcissistic personality disorder and she displays these same characteristics. I hv so much more to say but this comment would then be pages long lol
I literally just LEAPED UP to comment this. You’re sober??? This is everything to me. ODAAT🖤
it was a really dark time when everyone for some reason loved sh*ne and believed everything he said, and all of us normal people were just staring like :|
I remember seeing him one of those "youtubers react" videos (which is a whole other can of worms, but i didn't know about the fine bros history of really disgusting shit until D'Angelo's video) and he just really rubbed me the wrong way, and I'm so thankful I never watched his videos
I don't think it's necessarily fair to say that the people who liked Shane weren't "normal". Anyone can love someone who turns out not to be a great person.
Well that's a little mean . I think a lot of us just weren't really aware of the fucked up shit Shane had done . I for one most definitely didn't know about any of it , I started watching him way later in his career . Just because you already knew he sucked , doesn't make you superior to others that didn't yet :/
@@TheSmalyy Personally I didn't think that Shane was fcked up before when he was at his peak (before the expose thing) BUT I did stop watching his content mid way into his peak probably around where he tried to redeem Tana from her "Catastrophe" or probably when he tried to make Bunny (Graveyardgirl) famous again (I'm pretty sure that after that video Bunny actually ended up in a scandal and it also didn't help that Shane toured her house so people where kinda pointing out her privileges and stuff like that PS I can't remember the full details but that incident did happen)
His "Redemption Arc" for Tana just gives me full on *shady vibes* but during those times I can't say that he was fcked up (since I do understand during those times that he was Tana's "friend") but I must say I completely lost all of my trust for him after that video
Another reason is because I don't really dig his "Conspiracy Content" which was happening frequently during that time period (not 100% sure if it was during those times but either ways I still don't dig content like that so I just dropped him off)
you're video essays are my favorite, i get so excited when i see them
I'm so happy you talked about your alcohol addiction! i hope some day you do a video about that. I've an alcoholic since i was about 16 and i quit suddenly when i got pregnant but and still dealing with it 10 months after baby was born. It's really hard to get sober and i wish more people talked about getting sober or being dependant on alcohol at a young age.
Nah I don't want to hear Gabbie's side at this point. She's outed herself as a bully. She is so blatant in her self victimization. I'm over her. She needs to leave CZcams.
That JC rant gave me actual chills In that video
This was SO well put together I'm actually in awe. Everything you said was so well thought out and thoroughly backed up. Loved this
You should make these into podcasts. Would love to be able to listen to these while driving :)
I did it guys, I survived my finals weeks and I am on track for my graduation ceremony next week 🎓🎉
Congrats
Ah...busy day and a Smokey Glow video to wind down:
*PAST HANNAH SCREAMING AND SWEARING*
Btw...Miss hannah you look AMAZING
I love this video essay style! I think its very easy to follow, and you HIIT all the points you need to hit without rambling on.
I stumbled up on your channel and have been binge watching and learning about folks I had no idea existed on youtube. New subbie!
YESSS ANOTHER EXCUSE TO PROCRASTINATE ON MY HOMEWORK LOVE YOU SIS
Literally sameeee! I’ve got 3 assignments in a few weeks but oh well💀💀💀
@@loveisanopendoor3532 same I also have three AP exams to study for 😀 lmao but who cares she posted
@@squidward9155 MEEEE with ap physics calc and literature 🤑🤑
@@mixxdup yes ma’am I have literature stats and computer science principles ✨ I even have to take stats and computer science on the same day, lucky me
@@squidward9155 on GOD bro i have to take physics and literature on the same day. we're sinking on this ship together
I'm so proud of your redemption arc. I'm going through the same alcohol addiction.