Note: Worked out well for a first attempt. I might run a file or a small grind stone over the grit side join to see if the small "hump" can be reduced. It will probably wear away with use as well. Cheers Rob
I used to have an old 4' long linisher that took ludicrously expensive 3" wide belts, so eventually I started making my own. The two main factors that seemed to make the join let go was the glue softening from the heat generated as the belt flexing over the rollers or from the actual friction of metal removal (You already seem to be on top of that with the heat resistant contact adhesive), and not having the belts 100% straight. If it's even slightly out of line the join will start coming apart from the tightest edge. To make these belts as straight as possible I'd just clamp a temporary jig together from of a ruddy great slab of steel off cut and some angle iron. I clamped the angles to give me a nice and even 3" gap between them, then after "Degritting" the overlapping ends of the length of emery roll, I'd lay the belt in position and put clamps on to keep it from moving about (8+ foot of 3" belt can get hard to keep under control. :D). Once it was all in position I'd glue up the ends, lay them flat, and using a couple of the biggest G clamps I have, crush a 3"∅ stub of barstock onto the join. They were never quite as good as the genuine belts, but I'll happily accept 80% as good for 20% of the price any day of the week. :)
Your process sounds good. Using flexible glue has to be a good thing. I considered Superglue, but it dries brittle and gives mixed results with porous materials. It will be interesting to see how long these joins last. Seems OK ATM. I've often thought those long linisher belts must be expensive. Wouldn't want to catch a corner on it and tear too often ;) Cheers Rob
I purchased a box of 1 x 42 inch sanding belts at an auction for a couple of dollars. Apparently, they were pretty old because every one of them began breaking at the seam when I tried to use them. I tried every glue I had attempting to repair them. Nothing worked. Finally, I stuck a 1 x 6 inch strip of duct tape across the seam on the back of the belt, laid it on a marble slab that I have on my work bench and used a roller to make sure the seal was good. It worked like a charm.
I was surprised that they held together, if you've run out of belts it's a good fix. On my 4" belt sander the belts tend to wear out before they break. Never throw them away though, great material for protecting soft metal when held in the lathe chuck. Which I believe was another trick I learnt from you 👍🙂 Cheers, Alan.
Hi Alan. I didn't know what to expect when I flicked the switch. I was ready to jump out of the way if things went pear shaped. Seems surprisingly durable. I might be able to refine the technique a bit when I next do a fix, but does the job so far. Yes, old belt makes great surface protection. Cheers Rob
Hi Rob, good fix to get more life. Humidity is your enemy, store all your belts in the house (even your repaired ones), you will get much longer life. I watched an ex boss of mine going loopy at a supplier following multiple failures on big 6" wide 6ft long belts. Turns out they were stored in a tin shed with lots of year round condensation, this was in the days when supplier sales reps knew their onions, he got straight to the root cause. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon. Seems that may be a main issue from what I've been reading in discussions on this problem. The batch I repaired hadn't lasted any time at all. I was pretty pissed off, but then though maybe try a fix given the amount of life left in them. I didn't really expect it to work as the belts get a hard time, but so far so good. Gotta try these things. Cheers Rob
Regluing broken belts is of course nice. There are more videos showing that. For a mini sander no spare belts were found. By making a new, longer , arm for the tension wheel belts were found. However they were 62 millimeters wide and my grinder used 30 mm. Made a cutting tool that cut out a 30 mm belt. The remaining 32 mm had to pass the cutting tool once more. Cutting from the inside be pressin a Stanley blade through workded well, but slowly. Each cut was some 10 - 15 mm long. But I have belts1
20 Years ago I lived near a abrasive factory and they had a skip outside they filled with offcuts. It was supposed to be locked but occasionally they forgot to lock it . What a treasure trove. Some "offcuts" were 2 metre long 1 metre wide! I am just starting to exhaust those supplies. With all the free material I set up a production line for belt making shaving off the strip for the join was the trickiest. However the glue proved the biggest weakness . I mostly sand wood and the heat of sanding softens the contact glue and any heavy and slightly prolonged pressure results in the glue softening and the joint giving up. Age has not been a problem I still have multiple belts hanging up that are OK until they get quite hot. I see they make contact glue for rubber roofs. That should be able to stand a fair bit of heat build up.
Interesting. Wood seems to build up more heat than metal with prolonged sanding, or maybe we tend to sand wood longer than metal. I mainly do short runs with the linisher, so hopefully the glue will stand up to that. I'm more worried about the job catching and tearing the belt, working with sharp metal edges etc. Cheers Rob
Hi Rob, had a batch of Zirconia belts, the blue ones made in Perth for my multi tool, local business, he won't disclose the type of glue. They use a press and heat to make the joint They all blew apart after approx 2 years storage , quite dangerous as they fly across the workshop, definitely have a shelf life. Tried just about every adhesive and they blow apart, mind you the multitool is directly attached to a grinder, 2 pole motor, looks like yours is a 4 pole motor running a lot slower. Ordered various belts from China last year and they hold up but suspect they will also come apart. I think the secret is to buy limited stock and replace as you need them. I now stand to one side and a full face mask and nervously sand away!
Hi Willem. I see from comments on the net that this seems to be a common problem. Shelf life is very short, so buying just in time is probably the best way. Even then you don't know how old the stock is. I had the same issue with adhesive sanding discs for my small right angle air die grinder. Half the stock had dried out when I received them. LOL. That was from CTC Tools and they would only refund me for the dried out ones. Obviously the whole lot would be on the way out. Last time I dealt with them. I like the slow speed of my linisher. Much safer to use. I had considered making it variable speed, but no real advantage. I haven't tried consumables from China. Cheers Rob
I make my own belts to Rob . I use gorilla tape to join them and then use a hot iron with a damp towel . Works great .. Cheaper than buying them as well !!
Once knew a shoe repairman. He used shoe glue to mend sanding belts. It seemed to work. He also pounded his joints to set the glue. Don't know what the glue was, but the solvent reeked.
Worth a try Patrick. I used the linisher to grind down most of the "hump" at the join on all these belts for a smoother run. Seems to have worked. Cheers Rob
Two big issues I see with this over time is heat affecting the glue joint and the repair causing a bulge in the one spot. If this works sufficiently for your needs as is, by all means. But a better way would be to apply a backing strip the whole length of the belt to maximizeglue area and ensure uniform thickness. Good thing you already have the best material, the belt. Once one is sufficiently worn out, you can clean and glue it to the back side of another with the seams clocked 180 to each other. May need to trim a small amount off to get it to fit right.
Once you glue the belt put the seam in a press. You can use anything to press it flat. Drill press, press, clamps etc. I leave them over night. Nice and flat and smooth.
I've done that as well in the past quite successfully. Selley's must have changed the glue formula fairly recently because that no longer works with Quik Grip. So I switched to Parfix and so far so good. Cheers Rob
Hi Rob , I found a really good deal on belts one time and bought a bunch of them. Turns out they would only last a short time and break at the joint of course. I still had some old belts in my supply and went back to them and they lasted a very long time until wearing out but not breaking at the joint. I did some playing with the broken ones to reuse them with limited success. That got me to looking at the difference in the belts and found the ones breaking had a very short join area like the ones that you were regluing but the good ones had a much longer gluing area say about an inch long. It seemed to me that was a big advantage to them holding together. That was as far as I had gotten with them so far so find this video quite interesting. I imagine there will probably be some follow up down the road on this video. Dale in Canada 🇨🇦
Hi Dale. I expect a larger glue contact area would be stronger. Most of the ones I've ever used were much like these, however some had an additional thin reinforcing tape across the join faces and they lasted the longest. It will be interesting to see how these go. If they fail sooner rather than later I will do a follow up. Cheers Rob
Bought a lifetimes worth of "quality" belts when Masters closed down. The joint of all off then let go in storage. So far CA glue and Epoxy any high strength tape haven't work. Trying the high strength contact, squashed in the vise using two parallels, reinforced with high strength tape. So far so good. Need to clean the joints with a file first.
Those lap joints are terrible. One idea is to perhaps add another idler to your frame so that you can run a common size like 48” unidirectional belts (no lap joint). You will also have a good variety of abrasive types to choose from so you can buy quality belts that last.
Hi Ian. Yes, screw as much life out of stuff as possible ;) Those belts are damn expensive if you buy the brand name ones. You can have a workshop on the cheap quite easily with the right approach. Cheers Rob
Had a bunch of cheap belt sander belts go like that, they actually fell apart after being stored in the workshop for a few months. Humidity, I guess. Used evo-stik on them, it worked for long enough to get the job I needed done, done. The stuff big conveyer belts are glued with is a contact adhesive as well, black self-vulcanising stuff which gets a bond on the rubber. I also finally got fed up with the (leather) flat belt on the Schaublin breaking its lacing, so I degreased it, scarfed the joint and glued it together with super glue. It's held for the last 6 months, no problems as yet. I was kinda worried that the cyano would make a hard point that would crack, but it doesn't seem to have happened, might be worth a shot on sander belts as well.
I've had mixed results with superglue. Works brilliantly on rubber, but quite variable on other stuff. I run a synthetic continuous flat belt on the Schaublin. You have to pull the spindle to fit it (no big deal), but is supposedly good for 30K hours run time. It's industrial grade and very flexible/low drag. Worth checking out. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu My Schaublin has an under table drive, and the bed casting means you can't use a pre-formed continuous belt even if you pull the spindle. The "correct" solution is to get a new belt properly spliced in place. Mate of mine has synthetic belting, special glue, and the heated clamping gear to do the job, but he lives on the other side of France. Obviously, this would be considered practically next door in Australia :)
Hi Rob, It is hard to tell from the angle of the video but it looks like the platen is a little to far forward at the top and maybe catching and peeling off the joint on the inside over time. Perhaps a little adjustment might stop them breaking so often. I have used fibre glass tape right around the inside which helps, but in the end as my belts are worn usually worse than your examples, + as there is a cost to the tape and glue, I gave up and went back to buying new ones. Like you I split them in 2 and use the left overs for other uses so I still save a buck or 2. I do what I can to avoid spending hard earned $ but now days I'm a bit more pragmatic. if it's 90% worn out its only worth 10% of what I paid for it.
Hi Andy. I will check the platten out. I think this batch of belts was just not good in the glue department as there was virtually no residue on one (inside) face of the overlap. They also don't have any reinforcing tape over the join like the latest ones. There is still plenty of life left in the material/grit so it's worth trying to resurrect them. Time will tell if the fix lasts. Interesting experiment. Cheers Rob
As a few others have said, It's heat buildup that weakens the glue joint. I've only ever had one belt fail,scary shit. Pretty sure the ingredients for belt glue is a fairly closely guarded secret. Seen a few pl try this but none with reliable or trustworthy results, your grinder is fairly slow so shouldn't be too destructive when it explodes😁
Hi Bill. I've broken plenty of belts over the years and it's a non event on my linisher. The big high speed ones would be a lot different and downright dangerous I expect when they break. It's more than just heat build up as many people have had belts come apart while still hanging on the hook. Seems that the/some glue deteriorates quite quickly with age and possibly moisture conditions. The last batch I bought didn't last any time at all and you can see the pile I had to try and fix. Such is life. Cheers Rob
Not really that dangerous but they do scare the fuck out of you🤣 I spend a bit more on belts which imo is worth it for the extended life and reliability but my needs are different to yours 🍺
Interesting. I used this glue because like Selly's Qwik Grip it retains it's strength with heat. My belts never get very hot due to the low surface speed. Guess I will find out in the long run how well it performs. Cheers Rob
I've had some belts come apart & never thought to try & join them back together. They'd had some use anyway & I'm not sure I could trust re-glued ones on our polishing spindle back-stand as they let go with a bang! ( czcams.com/video/JopHDzQ3t8E/video.html ) Well worth a try on slower speed linishers though & if you're having trouble getting the size you need you could maybe make your own from scratch?
The belts for mine are relatively cheap the way I source them, so I don't see a lot to gain making my own. I was however pissed that this last batch went off in quite a short time. I will play around with the clamping/pressure process to see if I can improve the "flatness" at the join. I might also use the ball peen on the ones I recently glued to see if I can crush the join some more. Cheers Rob
Note: Worked out well for a first attempt. I might run a file or a small grind stone over the grit side join to see if the small "hump" can be reduced. It will probably wear away with use as well. Cheers Rob
I used to have an old 4' long linisher that took ludicrously expensive 3" wide belts, so eventually I started making my own. The two main factors that seemed to make the join let go was the glue softening from the heat generated as the belt flexing over the rollers or from the actual friction of metal removal (You already seem to be on top of that with the heat resistant contact adhesive), and not having the belts 100% straight. If it's even slightly out of line the join will start coming apart from the tightest edge.
To make these belts as straight as possible I'd just clamp a temporary jig together from of a ruddy great slab of steel off cut and some angle iron. I clamped the angles to give me a nice and even 3" gap between them, then after "Degritting" the overlapping ends of the length of emery roll, I'd lay the belt in position and put clamps on to keep it from moving about (8+ foot of 3" belt can get hard to keep under control. :D). Once it was all in position I'd glue up the ends, lay them flat, and using a couple of the biggest G clamps I have, crush a 3"∅ stub of barstock onto the join.
They were never quite as good as the genuine belts, but I'll happily accept 80% as good for 20% of the price any day of the week. :)
Your process sounds good. Using flexible glue has to be a good thing. I considered Superglue, but it dries brittle and gives mixed results with porous materials. It will be interesting to see how long these joins last. Seems OK ATM. I've often thought those long linisher belts must be expensive. Wouldn't want to catch a corner on it and tear too often ;) Cheers Rob
I purchased a box of 1 x 42 inch sanding belts at an auction for a couple of dollars. Apparently, they were pretty old because every one of them began breaking at the seam when I tried to use them. I tried every glue I had attempting to repair them. Nothing worked. Finally, I stuck a 1 x 6 inch strip of duct tape across the seam on the back of the belt, laid it on a marble slab that I have on my work bench and used a roller to make sure the seal was good. It worked like a charm.
Good tip. I will try that.
I was surprised that they held together, if you've run out of belts it's a good fix. On my 4" belt sander the belts tend to wear out before they break. Never throw them away though, great material for protecting soft metal when held in the lathe chuck. Which I believe was another trick I learnt from you 👍🙂 Cheers, Alan.
Hi Alan. I didn't know what to expect when I flicked the switch. I was ready to jump out of the way if things went pear shaped. Seems surprisingly durable. I might be able to refine the technique a bit when I next do a fix, but does the job so far. Yes, old belt makes great surface protection. Cheers Rob
Hello Rob,
It looks like it worked really well... As you said the squashing in the vice make sense... Good tip...
Cheers.
Paul,,
I will have to try this technique out. Nothing more frustrating than breaking / tearing a new sanding belt. Thanks for sharing this!
Worth a try.
Hi Rob, good fix to get more life. Humidity is your enemy, store all your belts in the house (even your repaired ones), you will get much longer life. I watched an ex boss of mine going loopy at a supplier following multiple failures on big 6" wide 6ft long belts. Turns out they were stored in a tin shed with lots of year round condensation, this was in the days when supplier sales reps knew their onions, he got straight to the root cause. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon. Seems that may be a main issue from what I've been reading in discussions on this problem. The batch I repaired hadn't lasted any time at all. I was pretty pissed off, but then though maybe try a fix given the amount of life left in them. I didn't really expect it to work as the belts get a hard time, but so far so good. Gotta try these things. Cheers Rob
Regluing broken belts is of course nice. There are more videos showing that.
For a mini sander no spare belts were found. By making a new, longer , arm for the tension wheel belts were found. However they were 62 millimeters wide and my grinder used 30 mm. Made a cutting tool that cut out a 30 mm belt. The remaining 32 mm had to pass the cutting tool once more. Cutting from the inside be pressin a Stanley blade through workded well, but slowly. Each cut was some 10 - 15 mm long. But I have belts1
G'day Rob. Good idea thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
20 Years ago I lived near a abrasive factory and they had a skip outside they filled with offcuts. It was supposed to be locked but occasionally they forgot to lock it . What a treasure trove. Some "offcuts" were 2 metre long 1 metre wide! I am just starting to exhaust those supplies. With all the free material I set up a production line for belt making shaving off the strip for the join was the trickiest. However the glue proved the biggest weakness . I mostly sand wood and the heat of sanding softens the contact glue and any heavy and slightly prolonged pressure results in the glue softening and the joint giving up. Age has not been a problem I still have multiple belts hanging up that are OK until they get quite hot.
I see they make contact glue for rubber roofs. That should be able to stand a fair bit of heat build up.
Interesting. Wood seems to build up more heat than metal with prolonged sanding, or maybe we tend to sand wood longer than metal. I mainly do short runs with the linisher, so hopefully the glue will stand up to that. I'm more worried about the job catching and tearing the belt, working with sharp metal edges etc. Cheers Rob
Hi Rob, had a batch of Zirconia belts, the blue ones made in Perth for my multi tool, local business, he won't disclose the type of glue.
They use a press and heat to make the joint
They all blew apart after approx 2 years storage , quite dangerous as they fly across the workshop, definitely have a shelf life.
Tried just about every adhesive and they blow apart, mind you the multitool is directly attached to a grinder, 2 pole motor, looks like yours is a 4 pole motor running a lot slower.
Ordered various belts from China last year and they hold up but suspect they will also come apart.
I think the secret is to buy limited stock and replace as you need them.
I now stand to one side and a full face mask and nervously sand away!
Hi Willem. I see from comments on the net that this seems to be a common problem. Shelf life is very short, so buying just in time is probably the best way. Even then you don't know how old the stock is. I had the same issue with adhesive sanding discs for my small right angle air die grinder. Half the stock had dried out when I received them. LOL. That was from CTC Tools and they would only refund me for the dried out ones. Obviously the whole lot would be on the way out. Last time I dealt with them.
I like the slow speed of my linisher. Much safer to use. I had considered making it variable speed, but no real advantage. I haven't tried consumables from China.
Cheers Rob
I make my own belts to Rob . I use gorilla tape to join them and then use a hot iron with a damp towel . Works great .. Cheaper than buying them as well !!
Once knew a shoe repairman. He used shoe glue to mend sanding belts. It seemed to work. He also pounded his joints to set the glue. Don't know what the glue was, but the solvent reeked.
I think this stuff is pretty similar. I've used shoe sole glue many years ago (for shoes) and it looked and worked the same. Cheers Rob
Rob,great tip.I have a few 1 inch belts that have come apart.Cheers!
Worth a try Patrick. I used the linisher to grind down most of the "hump" at the join on all these belts for a smoother run. Seems to have worked. Cheers Rob
Two big issues I see with this over time is heat affecting the glue joint and the repair causing a bulge in the one spot. If this works sufficiently for your needs as is, by all means. But a better way would be to apply a backing strip the whole length of the belt to maximizeglue area and ensure uniform thickness. Good thing you already have the best material, the belt. Once one is sufficiently worn out, you can clean and glue it to the back side of another with the seams clocked 180 to each other. May need to trim a small amount off to get it to fit right.
Once you glue the belt put the seam in a press. You can use anything to press it flat. Drill press, press, clamps etc. I leave them over night. Nice and flat and smooth.
In the past when my contact adhesive has dried up, I've had success resurrecting it by mixing with general purpose paint thinner.
I've done that as well in the past quite successfully. Selley's must have changed the glue formula fairly recently because that no longer works with Quik Grip. So I switched to Parfix and so far so good. Cheers Rob
Hi Rob , I found a really good deal on belts one time and bought a bunch of them. Turns out they would only last a short time and break at the joint of course. I still had some old belts in my supply and went back to them and they lasted a very long time until wearing out but not breaking at the joint. I did some playing with the broken ones to reuse them with limited success. That got me to looking at the difference in the belts and found the ones breaking had a very short join area like the ones that you were regluing but the good ones had a much longer gluing area say about an inch long. It seemed to me that was a big advantage to them holding together. That was as far as I had gotten with them so far so find this video quite interesting. I imagine there will probably be some follow up down the road on this video.
Dale in Canada 🇨🇦
Hi Dale. I expect a larger glue contact area would be stronger. Most of the ones I've ever used were much like these, however some had an additional thin reinforcing tape across the join faces and they lasted the longest. It will be interesting to see how these go. If they fail sooner rather than later I will do a follow up. Cheers Rob
Bought a lifetimes worth of "quality" belts when Masters closed down. The joint of all off then let go in storage. So far CA glue and Epoxy any high strength tape haven't work. Trying the high strength contact, squashed in the vise using two parallels, reinforced with high strength tape. So far so good. Need to clean the joints with a file first.
Sounds about right. Quite a few comments on the net about this adhesive deterioration issue. Cleaning the faces with a file would help. Cheers Rob
Those lap joints are terrible. One idea is to perhaps add another idler to your frame so that you can run a common size like 48” unidirectional belts (no lap joint). You will also have a good variety of abrasive types to choose from so you can buy quality belts that last.
Good stuff Rob--economy in the workshop is not to be sneered at---its sensible
Hi Ian. Yes, screw as much life out of stuff as possible ;) Those belts are damn expensive if you buy the brand name ones. You can have a workshop on the cheap quite easily with the right approach. Cheers Rob
Had a bunch of cheap belt sander belts go like that, they actually fell apart after being stored in the workshop for a few months. Humidity, I guess. Used evo-stik on them, it worked for long enough to get the job I needed done, done. The stuff big conveyer belts are glued with is a contact adhesive as well, black self-vulcanising stuff which gets a bond on the rubber.
I also finally got fed up with the (leather) flat belt on the Schaublin breaking its lacing, so I degreased it, scarfed the joint and glued it together with super glue. It's held for the last 6 months, no problems as yet. I was kinda worried that the cyano would make a hard point that would crack, but it doesn't seem to have happened, might be worth a shot on sander belts as well.
I've had mixed results with superglue. Works brilliantly on rubber, but quite variable on other stuff. I run a synthetic continuous flat belt on the Schaublin. You have to pull the spindle to fit it (no big deal), but is supposedly good for 30K hours run time. It's industrial grade and very flexible/low drag. Worth checking out. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu My Schaublin has an under table drive, and the bed casting means you can't use a pre-formed continuous belt even if you pull the spindle. The "correct" solution is to get a new belt properly spliced in place. Mate of mine has synthetic belting, special glue, and the heated clamping gear to do the job, but he lives on the other side of France. Obviously, this would be considered practically next door in Australia :)
Hi Rob, It is hard to tell from the angle of the video but it looks like the platen is a little to far forward at the top and maybe catching and peeling off the joint on the inside over time. Perhaps a little adjustment might stop them breaking so often. I have used fibre glass tape right around the inside which helps, but in the end as my belts are worn usually worse than your examples, + as there is a cost to the tape and glue, I gave up and went back to buying new ones. Like you I split them in 2 and use the left overs for other uses so I still save a buck or 2. I do what I can to avoid spending hard earned $ but now days I'm a bit more pragmatic. if it's 90% worn out its only worth 10% of what I paid for it.
Hi Andy. I will check the platten out. I think this batch of belts was just not good in the glue department as there was virtually no residue on one (inside) face of the overlap. They also don't have any reinforcing tape over the join like the latest ones. There is still plenty of life left in the material/grit so it's worth trying to resurrect them. Time will tell if the fix lasts. Interesting experiment. Cheers Rob
As a few others have said, It's heat buildup that weakens the glue joint. I've only ever had one belt fail,scary shit. Pretty sure the ingredients for belt glue is a fairly closely guarded secret. Seen a few pl try this but none with reliable or trustworthy results, your grinder is fairly slow so shouldn't be too destructive when it explodes😁
Hi Bill. I've broken plenty of belts over the years and it's a non event on my linisher. The big high speed ones would be a lot different and downright dangerous I expect when they break. It's more than just heat build up as many people have had belts come apart while still hanging on the hook. Seems that the/some glue deteriorates quite quickly with age and possibly moisture conditions. The last batch I bought didn't last any time at all and you can see the pile I had to try and fix. Such is life. Cheers Rob
Not really that dangerous but they do scare the fuck out of you🤣
I spend a bit more on belts which imo is worth it for the extended life and reliability but my needs are different to yours 🍺
I found that this works well if you’re not putting too much heat into the belt, I found once the glue got hot it would let go.
Interesting. I used this glue because like Selly's Qwik Grip it retains it's strength with heat. My belts never get very hot due to the low surface speed. Guess I will find out in the long run how well it performs. Cheers Rob
I've had some belts come apart & never thought to try & join them back together. They'd had some use anyway & I'm not sure I could trust re-glued ones on our polishing spindle back-stand as they let go with a bang! ( czcams.com/video/JopHDzQ3t8E/video.html ) Well worth a try on slower speed linishers though & if you're having trouble getting the size you need you could maybe make your own from scratch?
The belts for mine are relatively cheap the way I source them, so I don't see a lot to gain making my own. I was however pissed that this last batch went off in quite a short time. I will play around with the clamping/pressure process to see if I can improve the "flatness" at the join. I might also use the ball peen on the ones I recently glued to see if I can crush the join some more. Cheers Rob