As a flatlander from the 80's, I can tell you YES YES YES, go for a flatland frame if you can! Worlds open up. Specifically back wheel tricks, it's easier to straddle the headtube while doing rear peg tricks.
I’m riding a 1988 GT Pro Performer. I figure if it was good enough for Martin Aparijo, Eddie Fiola and my other heroes, it’s good enough for me to learn on. The tricks I do, & am working on, are mostly old school and all pretty basic. And I love every second I’m riding it 😊😊
Some other key benefits of a shorter rear end is it will make the front end feel much lighter on back wheel tricks and is even more amplified when the bars are flipped around 180º, and with the shorter rear reducing the overall wheelbase, tailwhip/whiplash based tricks will be easier to control/maintain your balance point and take less effort to swing the bike around due to the tighter radius (headtube being the center/the rear being the arc). Even on some front wheel tricks (steam rollers, funky chickens) the balance point will be quicker/easier to acquire & maintain due to the weight of the rear being closer to the center bp. Not in any way to say that you can't ride flat on a non flat bike, many people do & do it well.
I finally decided for a Wethepeople Hybrid Utopia because I realized my flatland skills are limited or anyway not good enough to ride a specific short frame. The tricks i am doing are possibile with also a street frame, but at least now I can run all around 😅
this is great information. The rear triangle was really shocking to see. As an 80s flatland guy, its hard to get past not looking at double top tubes or standing platforms. I know we didn't NEED them, but its what I'm familiar looking at lol.
call me crazy, but I always preffered a more subtle headtube angle...like 72-73...very old school feel...it's just how I started and feels good to me....also when you are doing whiplashes or steamrollers...you have a lot more lee-way/travel space for your rear wheel...(up and down...more clearance)...but we're all different :)
You can get a spacer for your fork race which raises it by 1cm giving you an extra degree of relaxation in the angle so if you have a 74* like mine it would go to 73* and they’re cheap
@@BlindingSun_ it fits over a built in race..not a bad idea but the steer tube length would have to be long enough as well...mine already is 3mm away from the top of my stem...not ideal, but that's good to keep in mind. I know some machinists that could knock that out pretty quickly.
Is there an easy way for a newbie to figure out which subset of tricks would be most possible on a more all around proportioned bike? I like how you pointed out which dimensions affected which abilities, but i dont quite know enough to understand how to apply that to what i have and where to go from there.
That's a great question. Certain tricks are good to get down, no matter what bike you have. Others may be easier or harder based on the trick. What type of bike do you currently have and what tricks have you been working on?
I just ride a street frame now. The rear ends are so short on them now I can get away with a street frame, steep fork, fairly short stem. I end up with a bike I can ride flat yet still cruise the beaches with my daughter and go hit the park.
Ya that’s a great way to do it if you are wanting to do more than just flatland. Honestly there are some street frames out there that I have seen that could pass as great flatland frames. The geometry is Getty really snappy.
It seems like a really cool and unique frame. I’d be interested in trying it out. It would be very different from what I’m used to. It’s got an old school style to it, with some new school modifications to the geometry. I think it probably be a great bike.
The Proddy could totally work for flatland. It is available in a 19.5” tt, so I would go for that size rather than the larger options. The rear ended has an old school design to it and is a bit longer. It will make manuals a bit harder to get into, but easier to control once you you find the balance point. It would be a cool flatland rig and I would work for street too
I rode freestyle back in the 80’s. Looking to get into riding flatland only. With the bikes now coming in different top tube lengths ( wish they did that back then) which length? I am 5’5” with 30 “ inseam. Back then I always thought my Hutch trick star could be shorter . Looking at Fas East Cycles frames and a few others. 18” top tube so it will be easier to manhandle the bike sort off. Whats the consensus on riders my height?
You are in luck. Most of the complete flatland bikes are geared towards riders your size. If I were you, I would go for the Far East Cycles complete bike. It is available new on EBay right now. Alternatively, the Ares complete that is available on flatlandfuel.com would be a good size for you, but I think the Far East Cycles complete is probably a better bike. Here’s the link: www.ebay.com/itm/266211073025?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20221115143649%26meid%3D0e5db12cf5b2489fa051f50a7143138c%26pid%3D101617%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D266211073025%26itm%3D266211073025%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D4375194%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2Mobile&_trksid=p4375194.c101617.m5481&_trkparms=parentrq%3A88db28851890aa3752f224b0fffffab2%7Cpageci%3A0474f3a5-2a44-11ee-a651-b6130a8e0324%7Ciid%3A1%7Cvlpname%3Avlp_homepage
Posting another question here for you. This in regards of my daughter, she’s 4”8’ . Would an 18 inch wheel flatland bike fit her better than a short framed 20”? We’re thinking we’re going to ride and learn flat land together .
That sounds like a lot of fun! How old is your daughter? If you think she will grow quickly, you might want to just go ahead and get her a small 20” flatland bike like the FEC complete. However, an 18” is going to be a better fit for her for her current hight. The Colony Horizon and cult juvenile both come in an 18” model and the frames are aluminum, which would be nice and light for her. You would need to add pegs, and a gyro if you are going to keep the rear brake. There is an 18” FEC flatland bike available, but it is more than the 20”, and I’m not sure you want to spend that much on a bike she will grow out of.
@@flatlandjourney she’s 13 and really inspired after watching japanese kids rinding on Ares York Uno’s videos. We looked at a Haro Bastille at a bike shop to see sizing. You are right, 20” would be a better fit and maybe just find a bike with the shortest top tube for her.
Flatlandfuel.com is pretty much the only place you can buy flatland complete bikes, but there really not many options for complete flatland bikes. Most of the completes that are on the market are for smaller riders.
Hey, I have a weird question, I am a short rider, 153cm height, 30 years old. I ride street, I jump 5 stairs max and I grind all the time. Will a light flatland frame be a good choice for me? I found a couple of frame around 18.7 - 19.0 TT that weight like 1800grams. Will a light weight flatland frame resist grinds and bunnyhops?
Ya a flatland frame will be fine for what you are doing. As long as your not jumping off rooftops or anything that will have significant impact. They are built well.
Good question, there are some great hybrid frames out there that are designed to do well at both street and flatland. We the People has the Utopia hybrid that looks really nice. The most popular hybrid frame is probably the Haro La Bastille. The stand over hight is going to be a little higher on the La Bastille than a traditional flatland bike, so just keep in mind that it may interfere with whip trick more than a flatland bike with a lower stand over height.
Hi there, I’m finding it impossible to find a flatland bike in Nz , I found a Haro midway with freecoaster. With a few tweaks like a zero offset fork do you think this could work. I’m just a beginner and 42 but used to ride back in the days of RAD 😂. Thanks so much
Ya the haro midway would be pretty good. I can’t remember if it comes in two sizes or not, but if it does I would go with the smaller top tube. That’s a solid bike though, I’d ride it!
I know this comment is a month old. If you are still having difficulty buying a flatland frame or a complete in NZ ordering from Japan is an option. Ares Bykes is an excellent brand out of Japan. LUX BMX is in Austrailia, they may have Flatland frames. If not there's always Flatlandfuel here in the States.
check the geometry of Fit bike co PRK i wanted a dk opsis sooo bad but cant fine one for sale. the PRK checks most of my boxes for a responsive compact 20" 🤙
@@biketron it does Obviously a 19 would be awesome. But i like the chain stay dimension and the gyro. The prk comes in a few diff sizes. Im buying the XS pretty soon
Ya that will work. It has a nice short top tube, which will help for flatland. The chainstay is a little long, but functional. Just put some pegs on it and you can do flatland. Also, a gyro would be needed if you want to keep the rear brake. And a freecoaster hub would help
@@flatlandjourney if it is already equipped with 4 footrests and has the entire rear brake system with gyroscope. Another question, I am 35 years old and I will practically start from scratch. am i too old to practice flatl?
35 is not too old at all. In fact, many of the best riders are much older than you. That’s one reason I love flatland, is because it is a style of BMX riding that is less prone to injuries, so people can ride a lot longer.
@@flatlandjourney thanks for your words brother, between the ages of 14 and 18 I practiced with an ordinary bicycle and I always wanted to have a Haro or a GT. and now I was able to buy one and I want to try
I have a number of videos geared towards basic flatland tricks. Here’s one of the beginner tricks to help get people started. czcams.com/video/q8vZddJRlbo/video.html
Why do bmx people misuse “stand over” ? You are talking about seat tube length. Stand over is ground to TT assembled. You have to add wheels/tires to get stand over.
As a flatlander from the 80's, I can tell you YES YES YES, go for a flatland frame if you can! Worlds open up. Specifically back wheel tricks, it's easier to straddle the headtube while doing rear peg tricks.
I’m riding a 1988 GT Pro Performer. I figure if it was good enough for Martin Aparijo, Eddie Fiola and my other heroes, it’s good enough for me to learn on. The tricks I do, & am working on, are mostly old school and all pretty basic. And I love every second I’m riding it 😊😊
Some other key benefits of a shorter rear end is it will make the front end feel much lighter on back wheel tricks and is even more amplified when the bars are flipped around 180º, and with the shorter rear reducing the overall wheelbase, tailwhip/whiplash based tricks will be easier to control/maintain your balance point and take less effort to swing the bike around due to the tighter radius (headtube being the center/the rear being the arc). Even on some front wheel tricks (steam rollers, funky chickens) the balance point will be quicker/easier to acquire & maintain due to the weight of the rear being closer to the center bp.
Not in any way to say that you can't ride flat on a non flat bike, many people do & do it well.
Ya that’s a great point and explanation! Thanks for commenting!
That was so helpful! Thanks!
I finally decided for a Wethepeople Hybrid Utopia because I realized my flatland skills are limited or anyway not good enough to ride a specific short frame. The tricks i am doing are possibile with also a street frame, but at least now I can run all around 😅
Ya the Utopia Hybrid is a great frame. I’ve considered riding one. Plus they have a lifetime guarantee! Post a vid and tag me so I can see it!
yo man still alive? i love your stuff
Still alive ha ha :-) I’ll try and get some new stuff out soon. Glad you enjoy the videos.
this is great information. The rear triangle was really shocking to see. As an 80s flatland guy, its hard to get past not looking at double top tubes or standing platforms. I know we didn't NEED them, but its what I'm familiar looking at lol.
#DON'TsleepONaTORKERframe
If you do a lot of decade tricks, you'll see the benefits of a DTT or standing platform. Your feet will thank you!
call me crazy, but I always preffered a more subtle headtube angle...like 72-73...very old school feel...it's just how I started and feels good to me....also when you are doing whiplashes or steamrollers...you have a lot more lee-way/travel space for your rear wheel...(up and down...more clearance)...but we're all different :)
Wow that’s a really good point about the extra leeway when doing steamrollers and whiplashes.
You can get a spacer for your fork race which raises it by 1cm giving you an extra degree of relaxation in the angle so if you have a 74* like mine it would go to 73* and they’re cheap
@@BlindingSun_ it fits over a built in race..not a bad idea but the steer tube length would have to be long enough as well...mine already is 3mm away from the top of my stem...not ideal, but that's good to keep in mind. I know some machinists that could knock that out pretty quickly.
@@nowherebrain they're good I love mine.. i mean my HA isn't bad but I like the extra degree it's nicer for hang 5's
Is there an easy way for a newbie to figure out which subset of tricks would be most possible on a more all around proportioned bike? I like how you pointed out which dimensions affected which abilities, but i dont quite know enough to understand how to apply that to what i have and where to go from there.
That's a great question. Certain tricks are good to get down, no matter what bike you have. Others may be easier or harder based on the trick. What type of bike do you currently have and what tricks have you been working on?
I just ride a street frame now. The rear ends are so short on them now I can get away with a street frame, steep fork, fairly short stem. I end up with a bike I can ride flat yet still cruise the beaches with my daughter and go hit the park.
Ya that’s a great way to do it if you are wanting to do more than just flatland. Honestly there are some street frames out there that I have seen that could pass as great flatland frames. The geometry is Getty really snappy.
What do you think of the Colony Prody lite?
It seems like a really cool and unique frame. I’d be interested in trying it out. It would be very different from what I’m used to. It’s got an old school style to it, with some new school modifications to the geometry. I think it probably be a great bike.
what do you think about colony proddy frame? to flatland and street?
The Proddy could totally work for flatland. It is available in a 19.5” tt, so I would go for that size rather than the larger options. The rear ended has an old school design to it and is a bit longer. It will make manuals a bit harder to get into, but easier to control once you you find the balance point. It would be a cool flatland rig and I would work for street too
I rode freestyle back in the 80’s. Looking to get into riding flatland only. With the bikes now coming in different top tube lengths ( wish they did that back then) which length? I am 5’5” with 30 “ inseam. Back then I always thought my Hutch trick star could be shorter . Looking at Fas East Cycles frames and a few others. 18” top tube so it will be easier to manhandle the bike sort off. Whats the consensus on riders my height?
You are in luck. Most of the complete flatland bikes are geared towards riders your size. If I were you, I would go for the Far East Cycles complete bike. It is available new on EBay right now. Alternatively, the Ares complete that is available on flatlandfuel.com would be a good size for you, but I think the Far East Cycles complete is probably a better bike.
Here’s the link: www.ebay.com/itm/266211073025?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20221115143649%26meid%3D0e5db12cf5b2489fa051f50a7143138c%26pid%3D101617%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D266211073025%26itm%3D266211073025%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D4375194%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2Mobile&_trksid=p4375194.c101617.m5481&_trkparms=parentrq%3A88db28851890aa3752f224b0fffffab2%7Cpageci%3A0474f3a5-2a44-11ee-a651-b6130a8e0324%7Ciid%3A1%7Cvlpname%3Avlp_homepage
Thank you for your advice. Thank you for your video content, I appreciate it so much.
Hi brother
✨✨✨✨
Posting another question here for you. This in regards of my daughter, she’s 4”8’ . Would an 18 inch wheel flatland bike fit her better than a short framed 20”? We’re thinking we’re going to ride and learn flat land together .
That sounds like a lot of fun! How old is your daughter? If you think she will grow quickly, you might want to just go ahead and get her a small 20” flatland bike like the FEC complete. However, an 18” is going to be a better fit for her for her current hight. The Colony Horizon and cult juvenile both come in an 18” model and the frames are aluminum, which would be nice and light for her. You would need to add pegs, and a gyro if you are going to keep the rear brake. There is an 18” FEC flatland bike available, but it is more than the 20”, and I’m not sure you want to spend that much on a bike she will grow out of.
@@flatlandjourney she’s 13 and really inspired after watching japanese kids rinding on Ares York Uno’s videos. We looked at a Haro Bastille at a bike shop to see sizing. You are right, 20” would be a better fit and maybe just find a bike with the shortest top tube for her.
Where can you buy flatland complete bikes online? Or do you have to build starting with a frame?
Flatlandfuel.com is pretty much the only place you can buy flatland complete bikes, but there really not many options for complete flatland bikes. Most of the completes that are on the market are for smaller riders.
czcams.com/video/fcnQHY8yAJ8/video.html
Hey, I have a weird question, I am a short rider, 153cm height, 30 years old. I ride street, I jump 5 stairs max and I grind all the time. Will a light flatland frame be a good choice for me? I found a couple of frame around 18.7 - 19.0 TT that weight like 1800grams. Will a light weight flatland frame resist grinds and bunnyhops?
Ya a flatland frame will be fine for what you are doing. As long as your not jumping off rooftops or anything that will have significant impact. They are built well.
@@flatlandjourney thank you!,
what size tire do you use (2.20,2.30,2.40)?
Currently I am riding the Odyssey Path tires that I believe are 2.2”. I am going to go down to somewhere around 1.85 for my next set I think.
Just ordered a colony exon 1.75” I’m gonna try out
@@flatlandjourney Riding slim 🤓👍🏽!
1.80 at 100psi
VERY inftomative!!! ... THANK YOU!!! __/|\__
Would you get a street bike if you wanted to ride some flatland or a flatland bike to ride some street? Best hybrid..
Good question, there are some great hybrid frames out there that are designed to do well at both street and flatland. We the People has the Utopia hybrid that looks really nice. The most popular hybrid frame is probably the Haro La Bastille. The stand over hight is going to be a little higher on the La Bastille than a traditional flatland bike, so just keep in mind that it may interfere with whip trick more than a flatland bike with a lower stand over height.
@@flatlandjourney thanks so much!
Hi there, I’m finding it impossible to find a flatland bike in Nz , I found a Haro midway with freecoaster. With a few tweaks like a zero offset fork do you think this could work. I’m just a beginner and 42 but used to ride back in the days of RAD 😂. Thanks so much
Ya the haro midway would be pretty good. I can’t remember if it comes in two sizes or not, but if it does I would go with the smaller top tube. That’s a solid bike though, I’d ride it!
I know this comment is a month old. If you are still having difficulty buying a flatland frame or a complete in NZ ordering from Japan is an option. Ares Bykes is an excellent brand out of Japan. LUX BMX is in Austrailia, they may have Flatland frames. If not there's always Flatlandfuel here in the States.
check the geometry of Fit bike co PRK
i wanted a dk opsis sooo bad but cant fine one for sale. the PRK checks most of my boxes for a responsive compact 20"
🤙
@@joeyripswell Doesn't the PRK have a 20 inch top tube?
@@biketron it does
Obviously a 19 would be awesome. But i like the chain stay dimension and the gyro. The prk comes in a few diff sizes. Im buying the XS pretty soon
Hello brother, I just bought a GT bump to do flatland, is that bike functional for that?
Ya that will work. It has a nice short top tube, which will help for flatland. The chainstay is a little long, but functional. Just put some pegs on it and you can do flatland. Also, a gyro would be needed if you want to keep the rear brake. And a freecoaster hub would help
@@flatlandjourney if it is already equipped with 4 footrests and has the entire rear brake system with gyroscope. Another question, I am 35 years old and I will practically start from scratch. am i too old to practice flatl?
35 is not too old at all. In fact, many of the best riders are much older than you. That’s one reason I love flatland, is because it is a style of BMX riding that is less prone to injuries, so people can ride a lot longer.
@@flatlandjourney thanks for your words brother, between the ages of 14 and 18 I practiced with an ordinary bicycle and I always wanted to have a Haro or a GT. and now I was able to buy one and I want to try
@@jlrpercussion1917 Those Haro's are very expensive nowadays. The Haro I wanted is an easy $1,600 before swapping out the parts I don't like on it 😂.
How about some basic trick tips
I have a number of videos geared towards basic flatland tricks. Here’s one of the beginner tricks to help get people started. czcams.com/video/q8vZddJRlbo/video.html
グッド👍👍👍
Good god those cranks are long
Why do bmx people misuse “stand over” ?
You are talking about seat tube length. Stand over is ground to TT assembled. You have to add wheels/tires to get stand over.
Good point. That makes alot of sense.
so buy a bmx frame from 2008
Yes, a lot of those would actually work great. I had a 2008 Hoffman Bama, but it got stolen. It would have been great for flatland.