How A Small Draft Day Trade In 2007 Led To The Sharks Acquiring Future Captain Logan Couture
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- čas přidán 19. 09. 2021
- Steve Dangle takes a look back at how a small Draft Day trade in 2007 resulted in the San Jose Sharks acquiring one of the most important pieces in franchise history. Also, check out how the other side played out!
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Little asterisk on Ott. He’s now on the Blues coaching staff, and he seems to be a pretty good one. Does he take that spot if he doesn’t get traded to the Blues? Probably not.
Good point. He was part of the coaching staff when they won the Cup too. San Jose won the trade for sure, but I don’t think Blues fans would go back and veto it.
Don’t forget Steve Ott is also a assistant coach of the 2019 Cup winning blues, is that significant maybe not, but who’s to say it doesn’t help in some way.
Of course that was significant. He was Steve Freaking Ott. If l was on that team l would have ran through a meat grinder for that. Talk about the ultimate players coach
The fact that he moved from being up top to being on the bench means a ton
Love seeing some focus on Couture. Dude is an absolute monster; always has been
Facts I always thought he was really underrated its really nice to see him getting attention. Hopefully his playoff performance can be rewarded with a Stanley Cup in the future.
he was done 3 years ago. He's slow, constantly of position, turnovers, doesn't block shots anymore, cant shoot. He's done, trade him for a bag of pucks.
petition for an anthony mantha trade tree (the og draft day trade with the sharks) its certainly an interesting one thats still very much developing
Steve, I'd love to see you do the 1999 Theo Fleury trade. Lots of pieces that helped both Calgary and Colorado and led to playoff success for both teams!
Agreed! Do this one Steve!
I think he talked a little bit about it in the Eric Lindros trade tree
As an Avs fan, I loved Theo
It was slightly mentioned in the Lindros trade tree.
Favourite Logan Couture fact. In the 2010's he had the second most playoff points of any player in the NHL. Only Crosby had more
And Couture was 2nd in goals behind you know who
Loved Otter as a Blue. Love him as a coach with us too.
Trade tree has to deal with a Buffalo Sabres oh great
I'm always the only fan at Blues games with an Ott jersey
@@nsant my dad still complaining about this trade because he wants on back as assistant coach assistant coach to give us toughness
Fun to watch as a blue especially because he played on the same line as Ryan Reaves, and Troy Brower for a season
As soon as you said the Blues wanted that number 1 goalie, it all came back to me. What a bad trade. I try to forget it ever happened.
I was trying to eat when it got to that part. I just lost my appetite.
Hindsight is 20/20. That deal MADE SENSE when it happened. Blues really needed that clear no.1 goalie. It didn't work out sadly, but we got Otter from that deal. And he was huge as a locker room presence and still is as part of Blues coaching staff.
If it's any consolation the Sabres blew it too
@@trevorm751 Right? What isn't mentioned, Carrier didn't play real well for the Sabres, and it took a few years in the minors for him to even get a cup of coffee with them before he went to Vegas, where's alright, but that's about it. Chris Stewart was streaky as all get out. Halak was immediately dealt with a third for Neuvirth and Klesla, and the first was dealt to Winnipeg in the Evander Kane deal, and the conditional pick was sent to Florida in the Kulikov deal. Sabres didn't make out like bandits, and if it weren't for the Blues and Miller just not meshing, this discussion doesn't happen. It turned out alright in the end. Ott was effective in his role as a pest for the Blues and was a fan favorite while he was here.
Next trade tree: the Scott stevens arbitration in 1991, that led to the 2019 blues cup.
Technically not a trade though, but it was the precursor for the trade to the Cup.
@@Dr.Frankensteen the Shanahan for pronger deal started it by trade
@@Krobscorner2006 it was, and I've asked Dangle to do it before. But the arbitration wasn't part of an actual trade. Technically speaking.
@@Dr.Frankensteen that kind of stinks, but what a set of circumstances that led to a bunch of dudes getting drunk in a bar, asking to "play Gloria" lol
@@Krobscorner2006 No kidding. That arbitration deal still gets me, but at least it helped lead to a Stanely cup victory!
Greatest part about that victory for me was my wife and I just got married a month before that. We met in a hockey chat, she was from Massachusetts and a Bruins fan, I was from St. Louis and a Blues fan...pretty freaking funny if you ask me.
Love this series, and I will keep saying it. Hossa vs Heatley!!
As a Sabres fan, Miller is one of my favorites, he was so god damn good. Should’ve won the cup in 06 if the entire top 6 defense didn’t get hurt. He was an absolute animal in net here
2006 still hurts to think back too
Great Trade Tree Steve. Fun that I jumped seeing Ryan Bednard as that 7th near the end.
You forget one important thing. There is no guarantee that Blues would pick up Logan with taht 9th pick but about your question, nah Cup beats everythnig so Blues fans are definetely happier here even when they lost this trade.
Agreed
all kinds of butterfly effects possible. if one peice changes, everything changes
@SteveDangle: You should do a "what if" series a la Marvel. What if Carey Price goes to St. Louis? What if Felix Potvin beats Vancouver in 1994 and goes to the Stanley Cup etc. Have a GREAT day.
Thank-you for the trade trees. Keep up the AWESOME work
Idc who won this trade, I'm still glad we got Logan Couture
Man, I'd love to see a trade tree on the St. Louis - Callahan blockbuster from 2014. I don't think that deal gets enough credit for how wild it was / still is
This Steve guy knows his stuff, Sportsnet should put him on the TV on trade deadline day!
I look forward to these so much.
Always good videos, thank you for that. But buddy, where is the camera focus??
Steve would you ever do videos on successful 'future considerations' in trades?
I can't argue with the "Every Trade is a bet!" phrase. That has proven so true in so many sports.
Craig River next has Debrincat Pacioretty Suzuki etc
YES PLEASE
The Montreal canadiens are litteraly built on that trade. As MTL fan , i dont know if it's funny or sad.
This was dope thank you
Glad they kept price. Long time mtl fan and i love that he was a hab for his career
logan couture is my favorite player of all time. i know this adds nothing but i don’t know i’m really excited about this video
When you lay out the trade trees, you should indicate pick # for the first round. Will help convey more relevant information
You should do the craig rivest trade from montreal wich was about 15 years ago and still pays off to montreal still i believe
Ryan Miller was so elite, he’s underrated by kids who’ve only seen him in his twilight years. He was my first ever favorite hockey player and many kids my age in Buffalo can say the same
moving up or down can be successful, but you have to know who you want and pick well.
please keep making these
Steve stifling the desire to rant about Toskala is amusing enough to rewatch over and over
What program do you use for the visual trade trees
One of the only trade-up's I've ever been a fan of was the Lightning moving one spot up with the Wild and selecting Brayden Point.
It's such a huge risk moving up a significant amount in a draft.. the reward is usually not worth it. Those rare gems that do pan out (ala Point) are worth it (even if it was just one spot).
1st round picks are the biggest gambles ever. Finding Vasy, and TAKING him, in the 1st round was one of the bigger gambles to ever pan out, for the Lightning, for a goalie, in recent memory (thank you Dan Boyle for that... hey, do that trade tree!)
The gap in talent in the draft between picks 9 and 13 is much larger than the gap between picks 45 and 55. The premium price is usually worth it to move into the top 10, and moving down usually only works if you are able to get the player you're targeting while getting another pick
5:14 is the big reason why I don’t miss petro as a blue. That man was so bad at giving away the puck on the blue line and it was so good when kyrou exposed it on the first game against petro.
Captained the only cup in team history that we waited SO LONG for, just saying.
The 2007 draft was a whirlwind for the Blues. Remember it well as we were in full rebuild mode. The name that I remember being talked about the most locally was Ian Cole. He and Erik Johnson were going to be the big building blocks of our blue line.
This draft didn’t age well for Eller or Cole. Could’ve had Logan Couture and Mikael Backlund over those two in a perfect world. However…..the Blues selected David Perron with the 26th overall pick. I think that turned out well in the end (and three separate stints later) for the Blues and the current linemate of Ryan O’Reilly.
Niko Mikkola is a guy to watch! He has alot of potential in the future 👍
The Finnish Freight Train...
I feel a nice touch to mention is that it may have paid off a little for the Blues... In the end; that all lead to them building a relationship with Ott where he practically immediately joined the coaching staff once he retired. A coaching staff that got them a Stanley Cup. Of the 4 teams in this trade tree, we came close in Montreal -- but only the Blues have a cup since the start of this trade tree.
You should look into the Johan Hedberg trade, for such a simple trade it netted a large return for Pittsburgh and is still active
Moving up v moving down. I think it depends. If you are rebuilding, moving down is a solid move because you need as many "magic beans" as possible. Play the numbers game and hopefully you hit on a few with the help of your scouts. Plus prospects have trade value so you can work on getting more proven middle to low liners with them. If you are a team that has it mostly figured out, in win now mode, or just need a few pieces left to build that core, then move on up. Trading up here makes sense. You get a potentially better prospect that can help you sooner than later and can help fill the gap when you have pending huge contacts coming up and you know you can't afford them all.
Great trade tree--San Jose definitely won this one but the Blues have a Stanley Cup Win and the Sharks don't.....
Do the Trevor Linden trade tree. It directly led the Canucks to pick Both Sedins and aquire Luongo plus more . Plus there's the islanders side and Montreal side. I feel like this tree could be massive.
You should do the trade tree for Dave andreychuk going from Buffalo to Toronto for grant fuhr
We need to see an Offer Sheet Tree of the Penner offer sheet inspired by the KK offer sheet and the subsequent acquisition of Dvorak using the picks by Montreal. Want to know what happened to Penner and the picks going the other way!
Should probably wait a year or something before doing it, but what about a Karlsson trade tree (starting from the trade to San Jose, or back in 2008 with Ottawa moving up in the draft to get him)
Hello Steve could you please do the Pacioretty trade from Montreal to Vegas
Is there a trade tree where the Sabres did well? As a fan, I'm struggling to find positives these days
keep looking down at this trade, it's not horrible. Chris Stewart was traded to Minnesota for a 2017 2nd and the Sabres draft Ukka-Pekka Luukkonen. And the 2016 3rd the Sabres received was traded to Florida with Pysyk (who is now back in Buffalo) 2 other picks that never worked out for Kulikov and a 2016 2nd which the Sabres used to draft Asplund
@@trident3888 that one actually goes back way further to Alexander Mogilny trade to Vancouver. The Ryan Miller trade is in that on as well.
Ok, I don't know where to submit to request trade trees, but I want to do the Dan Boyle to San Jose Trade Tree. I wanna start from the beginning of the tree, if it is from another tree.
Moving up and moving down depends on the draft and how much confidence you have in your scouting staff - I mean there is no "right" answer.. Look, if you're drafting 17th and you've heavily scouted a player who's draft stock rose significantly over the last couple of months of the season and he's projected to go top 10 but he slips and you think you can get him at 13th, then yea it makes sense to move up. But of course moving down makes sense if you have your eye on a couple of kids that were projected to go between 15 and 20 but both were taken earlier than projected but you have a bunch of kids on your list that are fringe first round picks or sure 2nd round picks, then yea - move down and get the players you want...
Look, I'm not the biggest fan of "take the best player available" - especially if you've already scouted a bunch of players and the the player you wanted in your draft position is off the board, that's when you trade down. I mean GM's should have a list of at least 5 guys per round that are realistic picks and if I can get 3 guys I want (example: 25th ov, 33rd ov & 52nd ov) - which I have scouted - by trading down with "the best player available" (17th overall) I'll do it every time unless the best player available is a kid that I scouted that I never imagined would slip into my lap - but he does - then you take him..
But I would rather take this than the best player available:
To me: 25th, 33rd and 75th
To whomever: 17th (best player available)
You can get 3 guys you actually want instead of one guy that may be "the best" on the board but doesn't quite fit your system for whatever reason - perhaps he's a LW and you already have 3 young solid LW'ers on your NHL roster and a couple in the system.... And who knows, perhaps your scouts feel the guy you have on your list as being a late first or early 2nd round pick will be BETTER than, or has more potential than the best player available at 17....
Look, it's better to walk away from the draft with the players you wanted and scouted heavily than walk away from the draft with guys that just fell into your lap - not only that but there are reasons why that player fell in the draft - if it's size then take him - if he's addicted to video games NO, lol..
Fun (not so much for Couture tho) Fact: the Datsyuk move on him was on Couture’s birthday
Seems to me that the Tarasenko trade is part of TWO trade trees (This one and the Rick Nash to NYR trade tree).
How about doing the trade tree stemming from the Pens trading Jaromir Jagr to the Caps?
I believe the Blues actually tried to trade for Price but Montreal refused to trade him and offered Halak. Pretty good call by Montreal. Also worth noting, as soon as the Blues made the Miller trade, I said they wouldn't beat Chicago. All my friends said "Are you kidding? We're instantly cup contenders". Sadly I was right again
Since the odds are so similar between trading up or trading down I’d say it’s case to case. They’re both viable strategies
In the NFL, teams assignba value number for each pick. say 1st pick is 5,000 points 2nd is 4,500 etc.
The idea is to get the same value number for the pick you traded. So if the Blues traded #9 with a value number of 3,500, the three picks acquired from the Sharks need to add up to 3,500!
Three days ago I was talking to my friend and saying that Steve should do a trade tree about trading up/down in the draft. I even thought he should talk about the Sharks. Only I thought it should be about how the Sharks traded the 20th and 56th pick to the Red Wings in 2013 to pick 16th.
With those picks:
Sharks picked Mirco Muller (Huh? Who?)
Red Wings picked Anthony Mantha and Tyler Bertuzzi
With all of the (largely justified) Ken Holland bashing going on in Edmonton (and around the league), I thought it might be topical/useful to highlight something he actually did right.
It is a pretty fruitful tree, too, considering that Mantha was flipped for Jakub Vrana and a 1st in 2021 that was packaged with a 2nd and a 5th to move up in the first round and snag Sebastian Cossa. It would have been a fun trade tree, at least for me, because I like to see the Sharks suffer.
But regarding this video, there is no doubt about it. Couture is a beast.
Mike Mikkola + Vladimir Tarasenko to NYR for Blais (returning), Skinner, conditional 1st round pick, 4th round pick (condition was later 1st round out of NYR and Dallas)
Just dropping a suggestion: the 1st overall pick in 2003 (M.A Fleury) trade tree
Woah
I agree with the whole move down for more picks
You should do a David Rundblad trade tree(s). Every team that traded him away pretty much hit a home run with what they got in return.
Since the days of the Plante/Hall tandem the Blues were always the "almost there team". First they had the misfortune of meeting Montreal and then Boston. They only needed a break in the schedule and the one element to get them over the top. They went from good but "not quite" to nasty and "there". I still look back fondly to the days of Glenn Hall and Jacques Plante but St.-Louis must be pretty happy with the results.
Ilya Bryzgalov to the flyers, it goes deeper than you might think
Perfect way to start a Monday.
As soon as I saw Logan Couture, I clenched...damn Toskala...but damn JFJ!
Tampa's last two cups stem from the Rangers trading the signing rights of Mark Messier to San Jose for a conditional draft pick.
Please do the Rivet shark habs trade tree
The winner of this trade tree, in one of it's branches it is Lars Eller who ended up scoring the Stanly Cup winning goal in 2018
This was a ROLLER COASTER of emotions for me as a Blues fan... I was like "hell yeah! HALAK NET MONSTER!" then I remembered "that" trade just before you mentioned it and mt heart sank... But then I remembered D'ago and was like "I miss him.." Then I remembered we also have Ott as a coach so technically we have 2 guys with the team still?
I think it’d be interesting to see how the Sabres getting Mogilny to defect in ‘89 resulted in Peca, Mike Wilson, McKee, Miller, Warrener, Drury, Connolly, Halak, Stewart, E Kane, Bogosian, etc. over the years, and got Asplund and Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen in Buffalo today.
Of course Steve doesn't want to go down the rabbit hole of Montréal trading Lars Eller later, because it's a part of the Craig Rivet trade, which alone will take 30 minutes to describe!
I'm a biased Blues fan, but others may find it interesting how the Blues trading Pronger ended up with getting Binnington
Man I remember those D’ agostini, Andy McDonald blues
I’d say in general, it’s better to trade down than up, but it largely depends on what exactly your organisation needs at that point in time
Blues fan who is also an admitted Sabres fan. I dreaded the Miller deal the minute it was announced. In hindsight, Miller walking forced them to go with Jake Allen after Elliot was dealt the next season. Allen turned into a stud that eventually slid off and then necessitated Jordan Binnington. Cup raised in 2019, Couture still without. Not part of the trade tree, but we don't hoist a Cup if Miller doesn't crap out.
You should do a trade tree for when Calgary traded Doug Gilmour to Toronto.
Depends if my team likes a player or not. If they just want best overall trade down and get more darts but if you like a player go get them.
I remember that Miller trade very well. In my hockey pool I had Brian Elliot and Jaroslav Halak on my team and I traded them for Ryan Miller very early in the season. Everyone was looking at me like an idiot, then that trade happened. Everyone looked at me like a genius and I forced my opponent out of the playoffs. Sadly I also remember Ryan Miller who was supposed to be my ticket to winning in my hockey pool cost me it. Yes.....I remember that Miller trade very well.
Can you do the trade tree on Erik Karrlson?
Do the Reinhart for Barzal and Beauvillier tree please! The Islanders need some love!
Do Taylor hall, I love these
Episode of 3 of asking for the Brent Burns trade tree
Steve, the Lightning moved up ONE SPOT in a swap with the Wild to get Brayden Point. I think it’s safe to say they knew what they were doing!
Update :
Niko Mikkola was traded with Vladimir Tarasenko for Sammy Blais, Hunter Skinner, a conditional 1st round pick and a 4th round pick
More of a "speed round" kind of addition, since I'm pretty sure Tarasenko was the bigger part in the trade. But yeah, that'd be a fun update to this trade tree.
I remember the move Datsyuk did on Logan was on his birthday
Every draft in every sport is an educated guess. Some teams get a McDavid or Crosby with the first, some get a karlson at 15.
Then you get the 2018 draft where the top 3 picks aren’t busts- just underwhelming
can you do the carlyle trade tree
How much of that top ten picks statistic is skewed by Edmonton not being able to draft outside of the lottery tho?
I'd say most drafts after the second round I'm a fan of my GM getting as many picks as possible, but if it's a shallow draft I think I would say after pick 45 just stock pile picks.
If you haven’t already done the Halak trade tree I need to see that
Can't wait for a couple years from now to see how the Anthony Mantha trade tree pans out for the Redwings
Up will always feel better. But it’s about the right player, not the right number.
interesting fact: brian elliott and jaroslav halak were both 2003 9th round picks, 20 picks apart
The fun fact about this trade tree is every player The blues got went to Montreal at some point, kinda sad to think Montreal nearly won without being a part of the trade
Do the trade on how dallas got the pick to draft Jamie Benn
Ironically enough, in the same draft, the Blues selected David Perron in the first round, with the pick they got by trading Bill Guerin to the San Jose Sharks. So I'd say they didn't do *this* bad after all.
(The Sharks had previously acquired that pick from New Jersey)
Please! The Shanahan for Pronger trade tree for the Whalers/Hurricanes! Please!
Go down the Halak route and it ties into the Rangers getting Igor and if you continue down with Mikkola it goes into Tarasenko to the Rangers.
Mikkola was just packaged with Tarasenko to NYR. Shoehorned as you say, not the principle part, but that's something
The pick after Lars Eller? Kevin Shattenkirk, who the blues would trade calder winner erik Johnson for. Also available was Max Pacioretty. After the 2nd rounder (Aaron Palushaj), Wayne Simmons and Jamie Benn were available. And, a few picks after Ian Schultz was selected, braden holtby was picked with cam Atkinson still available in that draft, albeit much later. So, the point is, yes, the sharks won this deal, but because st Louis didn't use their picks to the best that ended up being available. If st Louis had picked Pacioretty, Jamie Benn, and Braden Holtby, would we still be saying that San Jose won? Pobably not, it just goes to show that what's more important is who you pick, not when you pick. That's where a team like columbus is weird. Cbj has struggled to draft stars and people in the first round, yet the find decent players in later rounds, Cam Atkinson, Matt Calvert, David Savard, Joonas Korpisalo and Elvis Merzlikins, Markus Nutivaara, Oliver Bjorkstrand, Josh Anderson, Derek Dorsett, Jared Boll, Marc Methot, Steve Mason, Kris Russel. All of them were selected 3rd round or later. It's weird to see them have soo many good late picks, yet also have major let downs like Nikolai Zherdev, Alexandre Pickard, Nikita Filatov, Gilbert Brule, Kerby Reichel and Marco Dano, Sonny Milano. It's just odd bc it's also common for them that they draft a bust in the 1st round, but get a solid player in later rounds.
Basically montreal traded halak and ended up with Jordan Harris, still a long way to go but I like that return for Eller
on the one hand, the sharks got couture. on the other hand the blues got halak, then wiffed on the miller trade. honestly speaking mikkola looks like he will be a valued member of our roster for a long time, but then again i thought the same of vince dunn. this seems to be a signature of doug armstrong. sometimes he wins HUGE(ROR), sometimes he does middling(Jaroslav Halak), sometimes he wiffs badly(ryan miller). am i thankful the blues won the cup? hell to the yes. do i wish we could have won it with Backes still on the team? hell to the yes. do i think armstrong though is highly to blame for the two first round exits since we hoisted the cup and watched jaden schwartz, vince dunn, alex pietrangelo, brian elliott among others walk? hell to the yes. i know elliott left before we won a cup, but he was a monster for us, he really gave us some great seasons. Ott was a great lockerroom presence for us and is a part of our coaching staff so i like having had ott to play for us. you are correct steve, ott was pain to play against, pure and simple. he was an agitator. the 2014 playoffs were UGLY, ryan miller wasn't his best for us in the playoffs, but he did do well during the regular season. hindsight sticking with halak and ells might have gotten us somewhere more. again though, when armstrong hits he hits way hard. and when he wiffs its BAD.