PLANAR IEMS ARE (probably) THE FUTURE
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
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1,000+ IEMs ranked here: crinacle.com/rankings/iems/
⇊ Graphs ⇊
7Hz Timeless: crinacle.com/graphs/iems/7hz-...
LETSHUOER S12: crinacle.com/graphs/iems/shuo...
Raptgo Hook-X: crinacle.com/graphs/iems/rapt...
Tin HiFi P1 Max: crinacle.com/graphs/iems/tin-...
Graph Comparison Tool: crinacle.com/graphs/iems/grap...
PATREON: / crinacle
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00:00 Intro
01:14 7Hz Timeless
01:48 The planar IEM timeline
04:15 LETSHUOER S12
07:22 Raptgo Hook-X
11:36 Tin HiFi P1 Max
16:44 Are planars the future?
CAMERA: Sony a7S III + FE 35mm f/1.8
MICROPHONE: Motu M2 interface + Neumann U 87 Ai
SPEAKERS: Neumann KH120 + KH750
MONITOR: LG C1 48" OLED - Věda a technologie
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Why was the Libratone Track Air Plus included on the IEM ranking list but not in the TWS guide?
wait 3 days ago but it relased now? UH ALL HAIL THE NORD
crinacle+ No.
All hail bloatware
@@Dacied73 releases early to channel members or paetreon or something through unlisted links
You should do a dedicated video on each driver type would be a cool watch or one video about each type with their pros and cons
depends on implementation
yes pls
Absolutely this! I can't find a single comparison video about IEM drivers anywhere and it's hard to figure out the advantages and disadvantages of each with all the jargon everywhere.
Maybe just me. But I'd like a crash course on how crossovers work before I can understand driver types.
@@skyscall because it doesn't matter. if it produces the same frequency, it won't sound different
2:54 Man that was LTT level smooth.
Also, I recently went to an audio store and mentioned your ranking towards the seller. He looked it up and was kinda mad seeing the Utopia with "just" an S-, not knowing about your ranking style. Anyway, I got to try them and they were the best thing I ever listened to. Afterwards I bought HD 600 and couldn't be more satisfied for the price.
Like sandpaper smooth?
@@williamadiputra2850 exactly lol
To me bone conduction kicks in when I lower volume. Where with other IEMs completely lose bass, HOOK-X still has some of it. It is weird though: almost no bass but subtle rumble at low volume.
You're almost back to 100k again! Great to see the growth man!
I bought a Titan S this week and I already want S12, very curious to try the planar. This hobby is not good for my wallet.
Thanks Crin for all the data! It's invaluable to make the difficult purchasing decisions.
I got the s12 and i am asking myself if there is any point in getting anything else sub 1k
@@rafael6769 correct!
I was even curious about the IE600's and then I said....nahhh.
Maybe it's my ears but it's relatively rare unless there lots of cymbal to hear that over treble that Crin talks about on the S12's.
@@MarceloLopezJr . Saaaame, i wanted to get the ie 600 to put my mind at ease mostly but after the s12(they graph so similar ) im like, dont think there is much more in that price bracket.And the trebble ?yeah i find it depends . Also tips change the treble for me but its mostly a non issue for my out and about music tastes.
Try to buy an used S12. It's cheaper.
@@rafael6769 Agreed....I've yet to find the song that cuts like that....The S12's should've gotten a 2.5 stars....
Crin is vicious.
i have bought the kz edx Ultra about two month ago, I found that the Edx Ultra have far more potential than they showed, so I tuned them again to get the max out of them. I used the songs as a reference: Gravity Wall and SH0ut by SawanoHiroyuki because even my best over ear headphones at Gravity Wall distort in certain places, I didn't expect very much but the Edx Ultra surprised me because I could not once detect a distortion of the background instruments. I am now very excited about some other IEMS such as the Truthear x Crinacle ZERO or Tri X HBB Kai
9:59 anybody notice that they spelled crinacle wrong on the IEM
Can't wait for you to give us a review of the KZ PR1 Pro, their attempt to step into the planar territory of the timeless but with a budget that is cut even more.
I had some extra final audio e type eartips laying around that i tried with the s12 that worked out great. no more harshness, shoutiness or that emphasized sibilance. ir became much more balanced sounding. with this Change i can honestly say it was an excellent deal for a great iem!
how about the bass? does the final e tips increase the bass to the point where it's too much, compared to the stock wide bore?
@@Flypt1d nothing exagerated. Also i think it fares well with some increase to balance the increased treble. I've modded mine to have some aditional dbs in the bass region.
This is exactly what I was looking for as I have an S12 coming in and was hoping the E type tips would help with the treble. Thanks for the comment!
0:04 this camera angle is so good, with the half blurry mic, and mount Everest behind it
Was going to buy the Timeless next month so this review has great timing!
The one correction I would make to this video is that the Timeless was actually not the first new planar in this new revolution. I believe that title belongs to the PMV PP. It definitely pre dates the Timeless & I strongly suspect that it uses the same driver. It’s just tuned warmer so if you feel that the Timeless is bright….. Because it was first, a lot of people balked at trying it plus I believe that there were some reports of QC issues. My set works fine & I also own the Timeless. Love them both but I will admit that the Timeless is the more technical of the two by just a bit.
The P1 Max was my fav Planer IEM!, but then I find most IEM's are tuned in a such a way that they want to make my ears bleed, the P1 is so smooth and non-fatiguing, you can actually enjoy your music without wincing, the FR drop between 1.5k and 6k region is heaven!, there are actually people out there like myself that hate that region being pushed to the sky!
Too my 60 year old ears 👂..the S12 is damn near perfect..also LOVE the Midnight’s 🔥
I feel like all of this man's subscribers are just there waiting for him to upload😂
Damn right you are
of course we are
@@willuigi64 I've never cared about headphones and iems until i watched one of his videos and now im addicted
You aren’t wrong lmao
I agree. These are a obvious evolution in technology. Sort of like a TV moving to 1080p and then 4k.
I think I watched your timeless video a dozen times this week. I bought a pair of S12's but decided to splurge on a pair of blessing 2's
Where is this video? I can't find it
Which do you prefer?
@@tnzno63 I love the B2's but I keep them at home and use my 7hz Zero's when I'm on the go.
Hey Crin, what do you think about bluetooth adapters for IEMs? I would really like to have wireless for work and I'm wondering if I could get them for my current IEMs and not have to buy another pair.
I have a s12. Really love it. It felt shouty on the fioo ka3 but it's magic on the link2Bal. Pairing matters.
I just boosted mids and lowered treble on my new CCA CRAs. They sound so good.
Yes, planar
I'd love to see a sequel to this video, since the Timeless, S12 and Hook X have all received sidegrades ("flankers") and it would be interesting to see if these sidegrades are actually better or worse.
No more timeless video he don't want to tell us why! 😅
@@STAYCBias It was on the previous channel which he lost access to and eventually got nuked.
7:41 this is the best sound effect i've ever heard someone make on the fly
Your accent is really sharp and the way you can instantly end a sound makes me feel like my headphones are a lot clearer and responsive than they actually are.
ive not used a planar IEM but i do own some hifiman arya v3 headphones and they are excellent, there are shortcomings though and i think its basically related to being a single driver, i also own 64 audio u12t in ears, as a comparison the obvious things stand out, the soundstage on the headphones is wider, the bass can be felt on the headphones and extends further especially with some EQ or ifi xbass, without EQ its very flat and the u12t presents more bass quantity but cant compete with extension. Anyway, the point i wanted to make is for as good as the planar headphones are they have significant shortcomings to at least a multi armature IEM in that its easy to drive the planar headphones hard enough to massively lose control, the IEM stays extremely clean to deafening levels which is very exciting whereas the headphones feel like they can take more... right until the point very soon after where its clear they cant take any more if that makes sense and that's a bit of a shame and an obvious shortcoming particularly on bass heavy tracks where the reverberation of the driver has a clear impact on vocals. so when i see marketing stating that planars have less distortion blah blah blah i think that's misleading actually, that may be the case for ''critical'' listening levels but ive experienced them lose control and cohesion far sooner than any multi armature IEM ive heard, the separation is out the window at that point, with that said it is at higher listening levels, like very high admittedly, there is a sweet spot i find with my planar headphones where if you dont pump enough power through the bass will be flat and lifeless, pump just the right amount in and the bass extends extremely deep and the kick is incredibly fast and responsive but push just a bit passed that and the bass then can prove too much and the whole experience is ruined. the layering of instruments is excellent, vocals are clean and clear, the speed of the driver benefits bass and treble equally but theres all that nagging feeling that if you get too excited you are quickly reminded its one driver doing far too much.
it would be for that reason id be cautious buying a planar IEM for casual listening, especially for bass heavy music where having dedicated drivers brings obvious dedicated driver advantages at higher volumes. it would be easy to say dont listen at silly volume levels right, its obvious and of course that's what makes sense but its not always the way we want to enjoy music, it would be interesting to know if anybody with these in ears experiences something similar or are they sensitive enough that not much pushing for volume is required.
Lmao, did you know the Arya has slightly worse technical performance than the Edition XS? I find it hilarious that Hifiman is selling the Arya for that much, and then they release a headphone with slightly better performance, at a FRACTION of the cost. xD
You’re absolutely right about the audezes needing eq but i have isine 10s with the cypher cable. Eqed with the audeze app they can sound incredible.
Excellent video! Hope you'll be reviewing the 7hz Timeless v2 as well!
@Van Life v2 mate
Wait... Is there a V2 already?
@@zamedoeswtever5267 wdym by v2
@@EduRB99 Gizaudio got the nod from 7Hz to announce that it's coming.
@@Strizz484 Yeah I saw the vid, looks like there's a planar madness coming lol
I still use my iSine20 with their special cable.
They became outdated because iPhone and iPad decided to ditch the lightning port and move to USBC. So I use an adaptive port that comes with a trade off… it doesn’t recognize the Audeze app., but it saves the last setting used. So it’s not too bad.
I would love to retire them but I couldn’t find anything better at a similar price.
I had to return the s12. The treble was unbearable. Totally agree: Technicalities without the tone. I really miss the cable though. I will save for the ie600
Interesting. You heard the Raptgo Hook X and said it had less soundstage than the Timeless and the S12. Other reviews say the exact opposite. Is this unit variation or just different understanding of "soundstage" as a term?
It could possibly be the bone conduction driver not working properly for his ear.
maybe so because crinacle is the only one who does not have a link to purchase the product in the description?)
For what I know, some reviewers received faulty units, with bad channel matching
@@temporoyale6251 I know HBB had a driver die on one side already, and he liked his enough that he was sort of bummed about it a week after the review video was done.
Yes, I was also a bit surprised by his referencing of the soundstage on the Hook X as 'narrow' and 'congested'... I have both the Timeless and Hook X and to my ears, the Timeless is narrower and globe-like around my head, whereas the Hook X is wide and way more 'open' and airy... which I've always somewhat attributed to the semi-open back design of the Hook X.
With Dan Clark audio and maybe Abyss developing their own Planar IEM, maybe single planar IEM is the future.
Those will be just as overpriced as the Audeze LCDi line. The timeless killed the game.
@@mobbaddictchannel there are still room for improvements and if people want to pay more for it, why not?
@@protato911 sure, I'm always up for some competition. But I think the iem market is vastly more competitive than the headphone market and it will be difficult to keep the prices high.
I've been using bone conduction headphones for years (aftershockz). There isn't any noticeable feeling unless you really pump the volume. I think people hear "bone conduction" and expect something crazy. The surprising thing is actually how normal they feel and sound.
That's what I was thinking too. Don't most IEMs already cause bone conduction from being inside of your ear canal? You can't really "hear" bone conduction because it happens all the time, it's literally part of the way we hear.
Rapid progress in IEMs makes me wonder what will the future bring. Perhaps planar, BA, EST tribrid?
I was hoping for a DD subwoofer and planar with something like the Qudelix 5k as cross over.
Brain chip implants bringing lossless strait to the dome!
We should thanks the chinese company for making very good yet affordable IEM else a thieaudio monarch mk2 quality like IEM will cost you at least $4000.
@@zenniz1992 Brazil has a tribid like that.
1 planar 10mm
4 ba
4 est
@@bunth786 Audio Dream?
Happy with my S12, yea slightly too bright but accompanied with spring tips and colorfly cda-m1, it would at least be more bearable if not making it not sharp altogether, while maintaining its strengths to make it worthy as my daily drivers.
Do you experience some sort of driver flex when adjusting your s12 inside your ears ? or some sort of distortion on any side when adjusting it while something is playing?
@@ANOLE_VX not for me, maybe because I use those spring tips that has the flabbing noise, or maybe just your earhole not big enough to fit the S12. If there's no big problem in the listening experience itself then nothing big to worry, but if not you may need to consider a replacement or find another model that fits or performs more to your needs
I'm rocking it with the link2Bal. Mind blowing!
I have the s12s and wouldn't mind tips to reduce the treble a bit. Which ones would you recommend
@@Thoughtflux just ordered link2bal and thinking about what planars to buy. How wide the sound stage in this setup?
always a great day when new crinacle video pops up
Bonus points for knowing the U87 is the best vocal mic on planet earth. Mine have worked hard on the road for 45 years and are flawless. I have much more expensive mics and they just sit in the box. The U87 is my desert island mic, worth every penny.
😯😵
But hot dam does it cost a pretty penny
"We should really capitalize on this as well"
**ad break**
Well played, Crin
I love my TIN HiFi planars. To my knowledge they were one of the pioneers.
To my ears, the P1 Max sounded the best. Sound is subjective at the end of the day. ALso, I felt that paired with the right source, the P1 Max really shines. They sound great with my MacBook Pro 14 inch, FiiO K5 Pro (older model), and the K3. They suck when played with my Android phone though.
(Shouer tape)Magneto static is alternative to planar and electrostatic. Very good that takes the best aspect of these 2 into one. Korean Earbridge the manufacturer of it.
Oh snap! Stepping up to the u87. Very nice Crin!
Most of these have been "on stage monitor" instead of foldback speakers. The have ranged from $90 to $250, and have 1 to 3 drivers in them. Some are bluetooth with perfomance issues, and the others are wired with a separate radio/wi fi body receiver.
Can you explain?
@@kaeroseon No.
@crinacle+ you have the best outro on youtube. I wait for it every time!
I have timeless, a timeless purchase. Love it to death.
Been waiting for the main to speak up on this current gen of planars (post Timeless)
I'm a drummer who is mainly concerned with hearing my kick, the bass guitar, and a bit of vocals (ideally with good separation between each.) What would you recommend?
"1more" triple or quad
My first 2 attempt at planar already broke.. 😛
My Ananda and gold planar iem, just one side suddenly died 🤣 on some region in the world planar is just too susceptible to Micromold and other type of damages so I still don't think they are up for prime time to be a driver for mass use product.
I got the S12 for $130 direct from Letshuoer after coupon a couple months ago and I'm blown away. A quick EQ to tune down the treble just a titch (also upped the bass a hair) and it's probably the best deal I've ever got in terms of audio equipment. If you like rock and electronic music they sound so damn good.
I was using the Tin T4 before this and the S12 is on a whole different plane. I also tried the Etymotic ER2XR, as well as the Tripowin Olina, before finally settling on the S12 and it is just something else entirely.
hey, i was intersted in getting the ER2XR alongside my s12, really for the isolation. how does it compare?
Hopefully you returned them or sold them. It's kinda pointless to keep multipl similar performance iems.
How do u tune your iems also, is it ok to just plug em into your phone (3.5mm) without any issues?
Hello! What do you think of the Audeze Euclid IEMs for counterstrike? That’s the only game I play. I don’t care about price. I bought an hd800 s and it’s just too painful on my head. It’s my fault. My head is sensitive. So I want to get the best IEMs for counterstrike. What do you recommend and what amp/DAC combo do you recommend for them? Thanks!!!
I currently have Moondrop B2's I use them from everything from gaming to video editing for friends channels to music listening while I read, but sometimes I get annoyed at the massive nozzle meaning most tips wont fit hell, I am a medium eartip size but with the B2's I'm a small. Are the XL tips for fucking elephants? I remember seeing Planar Magnetic headphones like the Verum 1 where people like Dankpods were comparing it to $1K headphones. So I will definitely keep my ears open to some.
Interesting that he doesn't even mention Audeze Euclid. I'd never pay retail price ($1,300) for them but I got it brand new for $400 and think it's a very good IEM for that money. Perhaps the best IEM at that rare sale price. Audeze tuned it pretty badly though, so it does need EQ to sound up to their full potential. Not the most comfortable IEM for my ears either, as they start to hurt my ears after wearing them for over 2 hours. But the build quality, technicality, and sound quality (after EQ) is insanely great at $400.
The Timeless is and WILL be my last under usd250 pair of iems. Period. I actually paid usd193 for it and god knows how happy i am.
@@ACE112ACE112 what's there to doubt?
Hi chief, any chance you can do a review on the Audeze Penrose? Genuinely curious as to what you think. I love them for the sound, although they are quite uncomfortable.
I'm not sure where you get bone conductor driver for the Raptgo Hook X. it only has the piezoelectric tweeter
Bruh, when did you get the U87 AI mic? Looks amazing and sounds amazing.
I use my Timeless with Hidizs DH80S, it's soooo nice!
Could you please make a review on JBL Everest 700 / Everest Elite 700 headphones? They are totally forgotten but have an amazing audio. Yesterday I found them in my old backpack as I had forgot that I have them and how they sound. When I tried them on again I was honestly surprised at how good these are and literally noone has ever mentioned these anywhere in the past 6 years. I know that these are not a new product but it would be an amazing to see how would you rate them. In my country you can find this gem at 115 EUR (125$) and I feel like their sound is worth at least triple the price. (I have the simple 700 version but the only difference is that Elite's have ANC)
Crinacle what are your impressions of the hifiman xs edition ?
Personally I like the S12 better than the Timeless because it takes EQ way better than the Timeless. To me the Timeless actually sounds worst with EQ. When I EQ the S12 to IEF Neutral it turns into one of the best IEMs I've ever heard at any price point. I think Crinnacle and HBB need to tune some planar IEMs.
Hi friend, Do you tune it using AutoEQ settings ? And what software do you use ?
@@gustavoreview I use my S12 with the Qudelix 5k internal PEQ
I second you, been using mine with IEF Neltral for a week, and damn!
@@temporoyale6251 the S12 really is something else when EQd. It doesn't lose much bass impact when EQd to a neutral target. DF Neutral EQ is also crazy.
You may be onto something there @SlothNinja... CrinS12+
I like the ring of that
So the headphones im really enjoying are the Modhouse Argons Mk3. I may upgrade to t60 argons. But is there an IEM that is somewhat similar to the mk3?
Ikko OH10
Hey Crinicle… what’s your opinions on the STAX Spirit 3? Wireless Planars?
thank you so much for putting me on to the timeless
So which one should i buy if imma use it on balanced connection? Particularly 4.4mm
did you get a U87ai just so i can hear the room some more
awesome reviews, keep up the good work
YOU HAVE THE U 87 🥳 GOOD CHOICE great mic I would recommend a noise gate and a desser aka the dbx 286s to make that mic sound better
Blessing 2 Dusk or 7hz Timeless?
Une concession m'en a prêté une le temps de la révision de ma moto et l'embrayage était un enfer. Des soucis de ce côté sur la tienne ou c'était juste du à mon modèle de prêt ?
Oh Damn the U87 sounded so gooood...
Hey Crin, is it just me or is this video kinda really bright compared to your earlier ones, lighting wise?
It's exactly the same as every other video
@@distraction2803 I duno, I'm comparing side by side with the previous, this newer one definitely seems brighter, or maybe its a color correction thing? I have 0 experience in this field tho so "it looks brighter" is the only apt description I can come up with.
Yes actually! I didn't find any difference initially but after reading your comment, I did a side by side and this video seems a bit cleaner with crin's face being a bit brighter/fairer. Probably some new post-processing stuff.
How soon will there be $50 planar IEMs? Or a KZ planar IEM? Or does such an IEM leave you with little hope?
Meu amigo , comprei o s12 pró, está vindo quando chegar se eu diminuir a equalizaçao na faixa dos 8k amenizo o " problema" com os agudos?
Parabéns por todo o seu trabalho com fones, e informações!
O pro já é uma versão com os agudos melhorados
There is also Monolith M350 which is also realy good especially at 110$ price mark.
Finally, I've been waiting for you video :(
Would like an explanation on what makes planar better than the othe driver types. Would it be possible to copy some of the mentioned I.E.M.s with another driver type?
There is no explanation because it isn't better, it's just different. dynamic driver technology is obviously a lot more mature and generally has better price to performance than more 'exotic' techs. I prefer the sound of DDs aswell, more natural sounding and more dynamic.
Planar are usually smooth, 'grainless', airy, they can also sound flat and plasticky. They do have some nice qualities but stuggle at some of things that I like most about DDs.
My main headphones are the Diana Tc’s I really love their planar drivers, only problem is they have unbelievable sound bleed out the back of the headphones (not a problem really, they’re open back after all) I want to buy the hook x IEM’s but want to know how bad the sound bleed is (because they are “open back”)
Is that U87 new, or did I just not notice yet?
I still prefer dynamics. I've heard planar and estats (iem and headphones) and I still kept coming back to dynamics. That said, dynamic for bass/mids and estat for highs are where it's at for iems. Tin p1 was boring and flat out of the box (sorry) but with heavy eq it was a beast
yes! planar magnetic or electrostatic only suitable for treble reproduction. that's right. they can't reproduce bass and midrange realistically.
@@barbasour false
@@j_a_a then it goes without saying, you don't have enough experience :)
Do any of you experience driver flex/distortion when adjusting your Shuoer s12 inside your ears ?
Could be your model, a very few notice this. I would honestly return it, I find driver flex unbearable unless im sitting still
I love to see those super expensive mics being mounted on the 20$ arm
7:42 what kind of dinosaur is trapped in crin's chest
Was genuinely super interested on your opinion on planar. Thanks.
I would love to try out the 7hz Timeless but design is holding me back. I own shure IEM's and they fit so comfortable, and since the timeless has a old fashioned design I'm afraid they won't fit comfortably.
"When it comes to tonal balance the S12 dials it up to 11"
you mean.... to 12?
Sorry
lol nice pun
Any chance you could get Toneking to send you their two planar IEMs for review and measurements?
Hi crin pls make a video on your favourite planar headphones and 2nd video on top 10 headphones till 2022💥
Is it possible to combine a dynamic driver for bass and planar?
Planar it's a kind of dynamic driver.. so you don't need one more
Hi Crinacle!! I really like your vids!! Thank to you i have free upgrade my 800s with auto EQ that you talked about in a vid and now i enjoy them verry much thanks!! Greetz from belguim.
Is raptgo Hook-X open or closed iem, since I saw those... "holes" things.
they are open back as opposed to the others in the video
Congrats on getting sponsored
I personally like the hook-X over the timeless. Have both, but the hook just does it in a way that’s special.
Couldn’t agree more
@@garfieldblessesyouwithadri3944 not at all. I’ve heard that happened but I don’t have that issue. The hook-x is exponentially better than the timeless. And for technicalities I found it to be far superior. Stage much, much wider I was actually shocked when that was his experience. The timbre are much more realistic and obviously it’s tuned better
@@garfieldblessesyouwithadri3944 I usually hear statements like this from people who haven’t experienced a fraction of my audio experience who tend to listen to music by looking at graphs. Diminishing someone’s expertise or experience when you don’t know them is really really stupid
@@garfieldblessesyouwithadri3944 put together a coherent question and I’ll answer it. I’m fully aware of psycho acoustics and how important a fr response is - however driver capability is just as important to the reproduction that to discount an Entire kind of technology that delivers the goods is foolish and boring. If you’ve ever heard planar speakers where the advantages between drivers is far more apparent- you’d have a different opinion or at the very least you wouldn’t be talking down to people on the Internet who don’t share your view
@@MrColdchillin81 I cannot agree more with that statement
Are the earphones really good or people's hearings are deteoriting due to high exposure to technology so its a must to always upgrade your gadgets?
Crinacle listens at like 50db his hearing is fine haha
I've heard the 7hz timeless doesn't fit on certain ears. I'm going for the S12 since the looks reminds me of the Fiio FH3 since It fits perfectly in my ears.
it fits fine if you have big ears like me
For what it's worth, the timeless fits perfectly for me. Then again I've rarely had fit issues.
What's unique about the timeless fit is, the big circular plate actually helps the fit as it does not push the earphone into the ear when you lie down on your side.
I also have bigger ears and they seem to work well for me. I did need to replace the tips with Sedna tho
I have tiny ears and the Timeless works for me perfectly so take that as you will
Timeless fit my Spark Plugs great but I’ve heard us Geordies have Big Ears 👂🏻 among other things.😜
I think bone conduction driver give the Hook-X some openness even though it’s actually a “closed-back”
Agreed timeless is shouti , I personally don't find it fatiguing
Ok I get it. Ill buy the timeless
love the backing music what's it called?
Almost bought a Timeless but I’ve read too many concerns on build quality and longevity.
Well I'm a daily user of the Timeless since boxing day last year and I have had no issues what so ever so it all depends who you ask.
Timeless is not that good value anymore.
How about the new revision to the shuoer? The s12 pro?