Islam and democracy: What's the problem? | UpFront
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2016
- In a special edition of UpFront, recorded before Ennahda's announcement, Mehdi Hasan speaks to a panel of experts, analysts and activists about whether there can be a balance between Islamic and democratic values.
Guests:
Mustafa Akyol, Turkish columnist and author of Islam Without Extremes: A Muslim Case for Liberty.
Mona Eltahawy, Egyptian-American writer, activist and author of Headscarves and Hymens: Why the Middle East Needs a Sexual Revolution
Soumaya Ghannoushi, British-Tunisian writer, commentator and member of Tunisia's Ennahda party.
Shadi Hamid, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution's Center for Middle East Policy and author of Islamic Exceptionalism: How the Struggle Over Islam is Reshaping the World.
Husain Haqqani, former Pakistani ambassador to the US and author of Pakistan: Between Mosque And Military
Editor's note: We apologise to our viewers for the technical issues with Mona Eltahawy's connection.
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Al Jazeera Speaking about democracy from monarchical qatar 😅😇
😅😅😅😅
So what?
@@MDIbrahim-pg1sk they have no right to speak about democracy. Democracy is clearly the best form of governance.
@@manazon6945 yeah just look at the us and uk
They are having democracy emir of Qatar is like queen of london
"islam and democracy"
I don't know where to start.
We should replace Islam with any religion and then you will be able to start! especially Hinduism as India represents it and Pakistan represents Islam🤣
@@shoaibmemon9557 Yeah 3 dictatorships, 3 constitutions, assassinated or exiled PMs. Sovereignty of Allah, enough said!
@@shoaibmemon9557 The chief foes of democracy and human rights are the United Kingdom and the United States.
In Iran and Turkey democracy was introduced in 1906 and 1908 but was failed due to the UK and US, conspiracies, and opposition.
@@WoundedWarrior2012 would you like to elaborate?
Well islam had better versions of democracy beacuse they didn't want no western colonial ideas but back then they had good laws until West ruined it all so people could follow them so apparently the world turns better
Democracy is not just listening to the majority people but also take care of the fact that the minority people are also listened.
Actually it's not but it's a beautiful version of democracy
Impossible
Islam has no room for democracy and secularism
In actual Democracy the majority and minority is issue based . it is not permanent , the % will be shifting to both sides
Hope everyone India will start thinking like you .
that's a republic where an individual can stand against the tyrany of the majority.
Islam and democracy is like we say a bold guy with wavy hair!
gtfo.
@@abt1580 stfu
Do you understand your self
@@abdulaihmuhammed1126 u just proved my point, islam and democracy has no meaning
I think you can have a islamic secular country without problems as long as thestrict interpretation of shariah law is banned.
anchor didn't allow hussain haqqani to speak much.
He is the only one with a sound mind.
I agree... this topic requires long time... Should be in several parts..
It's so funny how Mehdi Hassan wouldn't allow Mr Haqqani to speak. Give him time too if you have him over. Such ethics!
Adan Eglesias Once again the Muslim world remains ignorant to other people’s beliefs and views
and top of that the video is about democracy haha
Yes Islam has a problem with Democracy.
No!!!!! Because indonesia that majority of population was a muslim including indonesian president jokowi dodo that himself was a muslim have a role in indonesian democraty
@@gff6929 u should check how the islamic empire begun during the rashidun caliphate
Islam has a problem!!
No
@@awacherif1689 Yes it does. Democracy is man made and Islam won't accept anything other than Allah's laws as made up by Md. , who was ironically ...a man.
You should have let Haqqani speak..the only sane voice in the group
Deepak Mathew this talks abt Islam... I believe how can u decide participants sanity?????
@Black Gold BHP child rape party? Then who is Muhammad? Lol..the pedophile that started the desert death cult
@@lubnasajjad4 because other guy said pakistan is successful country 🤣🤣🤣
Pakistan gdp is almost equal to small city in india called as mumbai.
@@Babayagaom gdp kitna bhi kam ho qabza tou tumsay hota nahi hai, itnay champion ho tou aa k qabza kar lo na. Filmo mai keh keh k dil khush kartay rehtay ho apna Ghuss k marain gay, wo aya tha na tumhara Abhinandan, ghusa tha na wo hamaray han, kesi khatir ki thee, budhhay budhay logo nay chambay lagayay thay rakh rakh k. Baatain auqaat dekh k kia karo
@@lubnasajjad4 mere bhai mumbai jaise chote city i jitna tumhara gdp hai ab toh aankhe kholo. IT medical infra, space, army sab mai piche ho tum. Padhai Karo ab. Israel ko kuch ni kr sakte sab mil k aur india ki baat kr Rahe ho yaar tum
He called Pakistan n Indonesia successful! !!
@@kevintheminion1497 no u
Whatever percentage pakistan is successful at democracy, it's just only because of effect of india on it.
@The PatRiot Sorry I was wrong.Taliban is the biggest effect on pakistan.Hehehe
Now an Islamic warlord is governing a debate... Get rid of medeival era war philosophy to subdue a settled humanistic settlement.
@joebob Look . Get things in perspective. He is being most undemocratic in anchoring debate... Islam and democracy are antonyms of eachother... Don't u live in fools paradise. Islam is mediaeval era philosophy which was used to loot, plunder and subdue. Get some history lesson before calling someone dumb. I am more read than what you would have chanted lifelong..
For democracy to be successful it HAS to have strong human rights legislation. The role of any religion in any form of government is first and foremost to protect itself and this invariably comes at the expense of those outside of that religion. The separation of church and state was the key ingredient in allowing the West to thrive and ultimately it more than anything else paved the way for successful democracies. Turkey is the textbook example of what happens when a democracy is undermined with religiously inspired policies.
And now the west is literally dying and replacing itself by importing people from non democratic religious civilisations to supplement their population decrease.
@@SI-cd7xs I think the west is doing a pretty good job of killing itself, it doesn't need help from outsiders.
Also Iran or any theocracy. Medieval laws can never progress.
You do know that Arab Secularism was violently crushed by the UK and USA after WWII, right? The people have wanted a separation of church and state in the region but this wasn't allowed by the Western powers that wanted full access to petroleum.
Why is Hitler always called a secularist? Nationalism directly contradicts secularism.
And why Islam is always mistaken? All sorts of evils- personal or social, directly contradict Islam.
The first part of my previous post still remains! Why Islam is always mistaken?
Myth: Islam is totalitarian.
Reality: Besides Quran; which is, in fact, more a book of signs and signals than direct orders, Islam derives it laws from: Ijma; Consensus, Istehsan; Equity, Masalih-Marsala; Public Good, Itedlal; Argument, Ijtihad; Reasoning. These are but clear negation of totalitarianism
Myth: Islam is autocratic and claim inerrancy?
Reality: Except Quran-which has stood the test of time; Islam never calls any other source as inerrant yes, its contemporary perfection is fully ensured. Our renowned jurists used to say, “Any of our verdicts (law induced), if proved in contradiction to the Quran, throw it on the wall” Even Ahadees; the reported sayings of the Prophet PBUH, which is the second main source of Islamic Law after Quran, have been strictly scrutinized and then declared as authentic or discarded as void.
Myth: Islam doesn’t tolerate other religion.
Reality: Islam is the only religion on earth whose followers not only regard its own Prophet as esteemed, but all the Prophets, including those of Jews and Christians. The first Islamic state; Madina and then Makkah had many Jews and others as citizens, all were protected and not discriminated against. Even during expansion phase of the Islam, and during wars, civilians were fully protected.
NOTE: Nonviolent competition between any two systems, to prove superiority with logical facts cannot be interpreted as intolerance.
Myth: The intolerant Mullahs and the terrorist Islamic State etc. are Islamic
Reality: Quran here speaks in clear words: Chapter 2, Verse 256: “There is no compulsion in (the acceptance of) Islam.”
Regarding IS etc. Quran says: Chapter 5, Verse 32, “Whoever kills any innocent person (Any Person NOT MUSLIM ONLY) is as though he killed all mankind.”
And brother, the concept of reward; including punishment for the evil-doers, is the essence of a good system, say ‘good governance”. I’m shocked, how one can have objection over this!
As a rule; to challenge a system, 1st one needs to disprove that, 2nd a better-one has to be put forth.
But the on ground reality is that all the virtues like: justice, equity, tolerance, respect and abstinence from harming and hurting others etc. all that is thought to be what secularism teaches now, is exactly what Islam has been teaching since 1400 years. Islam, in addition, provides a set of morality as well, which secularism is immune to.
Now which one is a better system…………
"Myth: Islam is totalitarian." Ok, but why are there so many Muslims and Muslim states which act like Islam was a totalitarian religion?
Many modern insights contradict the Quran and the Bible and in fact all ancient myths in many ways.
"Myth: Islam doesn’t tolerate other religion." Is it tolerant about atheists? Or about Hinduism, Buddhism or natural religions?
"I’m shocked, how one can have objection over this (punishment of evil-doers)!" So you think that every Muslim is an evil-doer who stones an apostate? Or an adulterer? Or anyone? And if you are shocked about the thought that some evil-doers will never be punished, that does not make your fantasy of punishment after death true.
I can't disprove any claim of any fantasy about anything happening after death an in my view nobody can.
"all that is thought to be what secularism teaches now, is exactly what Islam has been teaching since 1400 years"
That might be true, but it was corrupted. And the reason of that is the claim that there is only one truth.
The better system is the system that can adapt to change. Islam has not yet proven that it can do that.
Why double standard brother?
About Hitler you say that don’t blame the system/secularism for his acts as his acts contradict secularism. But yourself go against own rule; attack system/Islam for the follies of some Muslims or some so-called Muslim states. Here I don’t plead for Muslims, I say and can prove that Islam is perfect. Yes Muslims are not.
“Many Modern Insights contradict Quran”
For instance???
Is it tolerate about….?
I guess you haven’t read, or comprehended, if read my 2nd post….
What violation of law has it done against any of them?
Two or more “isms” challenging the authority of each other have all the rights to challenge each other through argument and logical reasoning. Now that other don’t or can’t and Islam has the mettle to not only challenge but also prove them wrong and that too from within them is itself a proof of its superiority if you seek truth.
Stoning to death…
Apostate is not stoned to death brother, you have misconception, as I have already said! this is why I urge upon you to please learn about Islam, and I hope your misconception well be removed.
Brother why go to Akhirat this early? We are talking about isms in the world, disprove Islam here in matter of world.
It was corrupted…
You claim, I request please prove it!
Better system is which adopts to changes
For this re-read my 1st Answer in 2nd post; Other sources of Islamic Laws: they are tools to adopting to modern age.
+Adeel Khan Hitler was not a secularist or an atheist. At least he did never say that. Officially he was a Christ and he wrote in "my struggle" about his admiration of Jesus. He was a fundamentalist. I don't see a double standard here.
"I say and can prove that Islam is perfect. " How is Islam "perfect"? And how can you "prove" that?
"“Many Modern Insights contradict Quran”
For instance???" wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran
""Is it tolerant about ...?" "I guess you haven’t read, or comprehended, if read my 2nd post…." Ok, I admit, you can claim to have the perfect truth and be tolerant about other claims. But the claim having the source of the total truth is totalitarian.
"Apostate is not stoned to death" In ISIS, Saudi Arabia, Iran and african Muslim countries either apostates or homosexuals or adulterers are stoned or beheaded and in many places at least ostracized.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning#In_Islam
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning#Usage_today
"It was corrupted…
You claim, I request please prove it!" It was corrupted by ISIS, Saudi Arabia, Iran, ......
"Islamic Laws: they are tools to adopting to modern age."
I don't think so. Why then are so many Muslims killing each other referring to their belief? Sunni against Shia for instances. Why are Islamic countries far behind in many respects like science, human rights, women's rights, children's rights, homosexual's rights, other religions, freedom of thought, economy, democracy? These are facts, no myths.
I agree with the separation of church and state
Topic should be: Sharia and democracy
Sharia 💯
What does an Islamic fundamentalist do when the democracy he has no choice but to be a part of abandons or denies the religious freedom he once had?
+Waffle Destroyer That's a loaded question. It presumes guilt of the government and/or of the society.
J Santarsiero
i'm not sympathizing it's just there's always two sides to the coin
+Waffle Destroyer I understand that. My statement still remains. It points to the problems with deeply held beliefs. Religious or not.
This conversation it self has failed in terms of democracy.. where is Hussain Haqqani??
This was such an interesting debate to listen to. I particularly, like the fact that one of the speakers highlighted that 'democracy is different from liberal democracy. I think in this regard, the West (most especially America), should allow the Middle East to practice the type of democracy that best suits their region. Rather than, trying to enforce 'one size fit all' liberal democracy in the Middle East. This is because of their shared culture and how their religion to a larger extent is intertwined with their politics.
But I agree with your comment I was just pointing something out. Anyway I also don't think church and state are really completely separate in the US anyway they are trying to put Christianity in politics way too much :/
A guy from Pakistan, Haqani was completely ignored in the debate
it's amazing to see so many *Americans* becoming *interested* in solving *problems* of *middle east* when their own ship is sinking in *debt*.
*IRONIC*.
the deeper in debt the west gets, the more they intensify their "War on terror"/ looting and pillaging the middle east
money is kept privately. the pupil can't even get proper education. this is the *"demo-crazy"* these ignorant leaders of muslim lands want us to follow.
Ugh a stalin pic behind you. Commies should have been exterminated along time ago.
No, it's entirely understandable as it's an interconnected world. Islamic extremism affects everyone, not just the Middle East
কাজী ইফতেখার the main reason is oil they will move your nose here in the middle east u till a single mine of oil is left....
Islamic democracy is an oxymoron.
No need too. It's right there. Islam and democracy never mixes
We don't need your democracy that was found by gay Greeks
Bye 👋
@@user-nm3ve6el5s So why would you cry about minority rights of islamist on non muslim land? Or least you shouldn't care.
Fact is- You don't want democracy coz you've a tribal faith which isn't liberal and secular. It doesn't lets minority have any rights.
That's the reason why islam has failed.
@@trigcat3107 we don't cry. We realize you to live upto your constitution
For us is ours constitution and for you is yours based on liberalism which you must fulfill
@@JanLaalaa Haha.. hypocrite 😂😂..
That was really good! As a ypung person, my eyes are opened to different perspectives and I learned the relevance of Islamic Values in democracy, and that its not all about either a full on Islamic state vs full liberal democracy
where u speaking from i:e Qatar is there democracy in Qatar?
😛😛
Mehndi is just not letting Hussain haqqani speak!!
because he is a dog and you dont let a dog bark when you are discussing something important , whatever he spoke was irelevant to the topic and haqqani been looking forward to criticize islam .
Because traitors have no respect anywhere
@@malikali5880 wow
Peace ful people 😂😂
Hussain Haqani is spot on.
The "problem" is East Timor, West Papau Guinea, Abu Sayyaf, the South Thailand insurgency, Bangladeshi invasion of Rohingya, occupation of Cyprus, the Islamic conquest of the Indian subcontinent, the Trans-Saharan slave trade, occupation of West Sahara, arabization of Sudan and Darfur, the conquests of the Al-Andalus & the Balkans, the Armenian genocide, three crisis wars against Israel, the Farhud, dhimmitude, sharia, and the fact that the majority of the Muslim world lives under the rule of dictators & theocrats.
The Armenian genocide was about the Ottomans wanted to cleanse their lands as they retreated. And these dictatorships were a lot more successful than their current status now.
LordOfTheDucks you can add arabzanation of Somalia and we're including many other ethnic groups into the Arabs, cause they wanted it.
while the white man still sees his color and compare it with the person front him.
"Bangladeshi invasion of Rohingya". Seriously! If this is the base of your knowledge; I'm afraid u r just brainwashed by sort of propaganda. Best of luck
The rule of a lion is always more royal than rule of hundred rats.
Translate these words from Arabic:
الإسلام لا يتماشى مع الديمقراطية، الإسلام أفضل من الديمقراطية.
الديمقراطية تعني حكم الشعب على نفسه، بينما في الإسلام الله سبحانه وتعالى هو من يختارُ لنا الأحكام وكيفية العيش، لأنه خالقنا، وهو الأدرى بمصلحتنا.
قوانين الشريعة الإسلامية صالحة لكل زمان ومكان، وخلال الفترة الإسلامية التي استمرت حوالي 1200 سنة، كان المسلمون متقدمون في جميع المجالات، العسكرية والسياسية والدينية والعلمية، كان الاوروبيون يغارون من المسلمون في عهد الدولة العثمانية، كانوا يلبسون لباس المسلمين، كان الاروبيون يتعلمون من علماء المسلمين، يتركون بلادهم ويسافرون آلاف الكيلومترات ليتعلموا في معاهد المسلمين تحت أيدي علمائنا.
كانت الدولة الأسلامية من بلاد الفرس والهند شرقاً حتى الأندلس غرباً، ولولا تداعي الأمم والخائنين عليها لما سقطت.
بالطبع، المرأة ليست كالرجل، ولا الرجل كالمرأة، لو كانوا كذلك لما خلقنا الله جنسين مختلفين، كل منهما له حقوقه وواجباته، ومساواتهما لا تجوز، المساواة لا تعني العدل.
كأن تعطي الدولة طفلاً صغيراً دولاراً، وتعطي شاب في الثلاثين من عمره ديناراً، بحجة تحقيق العدل، الطفل سيكفيه 100 دولار، بينما لن تكفِ الشاب 300 دولار، بسبب مسؤولياته ومصاريفه الكثيرة، فعندما تنادون للمساواة بينهما، بذلك تنادون لعدم العدل.
أيضاً، اذا اراد الغرب، ومن على شاكلتهم العيش في مجتمع ضمن قوانينه الخاصة تحت مسمى الحرية، فأنه أيضاً يحق للشعوب في الشرق الاوسط تبني الشريعة الإسلامية كقوانين لها، أيضاً، اذا كان الغرب حراً في أن يكون بلداً علمانياً، فأن شعوب الشرق الاوسط لها الحرية في أن تكون دولةً إسلامية
ما كتب عن الديمقراطية في أي استيراد للقرآن؟
What for?
Terrible grammar
@@haneef4189 The comment is in Arabic, what do you mean!!
@@AhmadNasriya
The Arabic language has grammar too
democracy needs people to think for themselves. be an individual and think logically for greater good of society and world in general.
In Islam, majority opinion doesn't matter. What is good matters and it will be imposed.
@@kodvavi150 thats a good thing.
Allow hussain to speak. He is most experienced one
He called Pakistan successful democracy
he should count minority
Hi darshan more
Wdym?
Ya they are safe any problem kulbushan lover
4 coups and yet Army rules pakistan. That's indeed successful democracy 😆
Dr dark They aren’t, look up how Christians are treated in Pakistan
mehdi hasan gave comparatively very less time to hussain haqqani and woman on skype who had secular views. he was biased in this show
shahzad abbasi ...I am Iranian and I am against blasphemy law and sharia law.
We must fight against sharia law by all means land, water 💧, air and ideas.
Soon houthi ,isis, Hamas and hezbullah backed by Iran will destroy Mecca and medina
because Medhi is an islamist working for an Islamist state broadcaster. I'd respect him more if he was honest.
because Medhi is an islamist working for an Islamist state broadcaster. I'd respect him more if he was honest.
Why some countries, for example where I come from (Azerbaijan), are being completely ignored? We have a democratic government and the majority of the population is Muslim. While we have our challenges, such as high corruption rates, they have nothing to do with the religion. We have a diverse population that includes Orthodox Russians and live peacefully together.
Separation of religion and state. Personal laws are personal . Where state is needed it reforms to best practices.
I’m a Malaysian muslim and we proof that democracy and Islam can work. In fact our Prophet Muhammad SAW also practicing democracy under his ministry by Majlis Syura. Be a moderate not too secular or too fundamentalist. The problem with Middle east muslim world, they have a huge gab between society. One side are extreme fundamentalist another side are extreme secularist. Thats the main problem with Arab world with their population mind state.
Democracy is NOT the “tyranny of the majority”. Well said.
Democracy at its best is the “ensuring that all voices (everyone) are heard”.
sadly this "debate" was so heavily edited, I can't take it serious.
Islam :alhamdulillah (praise god in any situation)
democracy: protest ,riot, criticize government in any situation
you forgot terrorism
And blast yourself
Saying ola hu akbar
@@nameall2808 Saying what 😂
Regardless of the majority vote, there must be separation of church and state.
why
Shabir Ali Because state is for everybody, church is for a few and each group thinks differently. If we're going to get along, keep fairy tales out of government.
Lone Wolf I know right? Should I take the sticker of mohammed of from my dog's food bowl you think? -- In all fairness, I got the bowls at a garage sale from somebody that had a dog named mohammed. He died mysteriously said the owner.
+Oscar Gonzalez +Shabir Ali. You are so right Oscar Gonzalez. State affairs are for all people of all religions, and so no one religion has the right to dominate state affairs. Religions are simply mystery schools that tell fairy tales, and must be kept out of state affairs.
***** That's why they're all screwed up and in fights for the past 800 years.
Democracy as introduced by the Greeks is giving the voice to the majority and not just the few wealthy who had ruled
I liked the table in the program.
A life without politics and religion would be heaven on earth.
Pakistani guy is only sane guy here...
The Pakistani man and the Tunisian woman made a lot of great points. I wish the Pakistani man was given more time to speak. He has a lot of wisdom to share!
Shadi hamid beautifully advocates compatibility of islamic laws with democracy....
What we all forget is there has to be a set of values at the base of all government policies. So Democracy started out as a set of basic rules from the dominant religions that were Judaism and Christianity. They called it secular. But In fact a lack of religious basis a vacuum is created. So what we are seeing to day, a democracy that is called secular, is in fact being run on or a lack of principles due to pure Capitalism. Islam in act addresses this issue.. by describing the existence of Capitalism but with religions infusion of sharing and equitable distribution of wealth. That is lack ing profoundly in to days Democratic nations. Europe is now beginning to progress to that aspect. That is some thing Islam has decreed all along... but was never fully followed due to hijacking by self interest of dominant personalities. IN other words the Islam that is perceived by the west is the Islam followed in an middle easter tradition. It is not the pure form. In its pure form Islam works hand in hand with democratic institution. It needs to be studied and implemented.
Mustafa Sabri Efendi, the last SheikhulIslam of the Ottoman Empire, tells in his work Mevkif'ul-Akl 👇
[If the state leaves the line of Islam,
"Obeying the dictates of religion is not the business of the government. It is only the business of society." says, this is to separate religion from the state.
In such a case, the state apostatized (abandoned religion). If the society consents to such a government, or if the government will make laws by taking the society's proxy in the parliament (that is, by voting), the society will become apostate just as the government is apostate. In this case, the following verse applies to both that government and that ummah:
"Those who do not judge by what Allah has revealed, they are the disbelievers themselves." (Surah Maida, Verse 44)
A political regime that accepts the principle of secularism means that it has rebelled against the rules of Islam. Therefore, first of all, this government apostatized, and then those who obeyed this administration became apostates one by one. Just as those who take part in the political administration are apostates one by one, the masses obeying this government also fall into apostasy (kufr).] (Mavkif'ul-Akıl, 4/280)
WE LOVE ISLAM ------- from Afghanistan
PUT IT THIS WAY : IT'S LIKE WATER AND OIL, IT DOESN'T MIX VERY WELL...
Muhammad SAW himself laid down the foundational principals of democracy in medina through the constitutional that was misaaq e medina
He entered in a political alliance with Jews and Christians, and he was the one who declare charter of human rights for the mankind,
He was the one who declare the guarantee for the rights of the non-muslims and respect for their local laws and freedom of their religion and culture and everything.
Now young people say all western democracy is kufr which is not.
They have democratic right to criticize but this is not pure democracy, no right, but you are given the full right to peaceful discussion, Go enter into the political process , go in the process of vote, go to the court, act through parliament, raise your voice ,all these things have mentioned in hadith, you have rights but peaceful rights. In a peaceful manner, but leaving the peaceful ways away, taking up the arm and declare democracy is kufr, it means you are rejecting the tradition of holy prophet (SAW) .
Abu Huraira R.A narrated a hadith:
The opinion of two is better than one, the opinion of three is better than two, 4 is better than 3, 5 is better than 4. And this majority is known as jamaa`t. And Allah places the hand of protection for jamaa`t.
When u say democracy is kufr, it means u don`t know what our prophet (SAW) preaching.
There is no hadith, or verse in the Quran in which holy prophet (SAW) has stated that umma is bound to establish one khalifa for the whole world.
They don`t even know the meaning of khalifa, just head of the state is known as khalifa. Whether there is a president in a presidential form or prime minister in a parliamentary form.
They are putting whole umma in trouble. They have been given totally wrong interpretation.
One khilafa for whole umma was never required in Islam.
Khilafa means Islamic system, Islamic rules in a country.
An Islamist can become president in secular christian majority country but a christian can't become president in muslim majority country.
Islam is beautiful SHARIA means no poor people, why?because of the ruling of Zakkah giving a great portion of wealth to the poor not limiting the giver
Mohamed the Praised one Ibraheem Friend of God not only that Islam is anti racism by establishing salah and fasting month will lead more more n more extra charity .
establish salah and jakat
Ya and same sharia also means death to all infidels.
rajeevrp who said that you are wrong we only kill traitors
rajeevrp ,
U r proved to be wrong as there r many Coptic christian till now, in Arabian paenensula since Prophet Muhammad (saw) ' S time.
But that’s just a line in Quran, tell me how many practice it ? I bet not a single wealthy Muslim would do that ....
shadi is simply making sense to me
He asked the question several times in his Head to Head series.
It is not about democracy. It is about Liberalism.
" Real democracy is the rull of mob "
Plato
What reduce the role of mob is the constitution
Half truth. Democracy leads to corruption & slow destruction of every country - The real meaning of views of Plato & Aristotle on Democracy.
Those Muslim countries who refuse western slavery gift called democracy & interest based banking are deliberately destabilized...
@@smokiebad exactly
@smokiebads2452 Give some research paper build a prototype without aid? Can you.
Mr. Hasan, if you did nothing else and continued this kind of debate with such civilized people as these (of course with active support of Al Jazeera) until all of us became enlightened (I am a hindu btw), you would have done enough to be worthy of a Noble prize. ALL OF US BADLY NEED THIS. I feel all of the participants had put enough justifications for the opinions they expressed. And we could learn quite a lot from each one of them (including you, Mr. Mehdi Hassan)
This is Called Journalism
Raising the Right Questions
Whether You are Backed By Qatar
What many Westerners, especially Americans, don't understand is that they carry their beliefs in liberal and secular democracy with devout religious fervor, while lacking sufficient understanding of the history of cultures, political or religious thought to approach this debate with an open mind or ear.
This observation includes knowledge of our own Western political history.
well i think one of the biggest flaws of democracy is that the power is given to the people...
which I interpret as simply being a person entitles you the powers and rights of democracy.
but I prefer technocracy and meritocracy, where power on the state is entitled to those who are qualified, whether in merits or profession, not by simply being a person.
Skynet
Great debate. Well done, folks!
OMG, I really don't understand how Shadi become a prominent academic having these thoughts about the relations between religion and democray
This man tries to put a whole different picture on this. An election in a muslim country is like a horse race with one horse.
Why didn't you guys talk about the country Lebanon, according to what I found the most democratic country in the middle east?
Lebanon is under the control of Hezbollah. The most democratic country in the middle east is Kuwait.
+Obadyahu al-Qaynuqai hezbollah is just a small party within the lebanese parlement. at the last elections the pro western coalition won the majority.
kuwait i don't know anything about, but yoh could be right there
Actually Israel is the most democratic country and after it I think Tunisia
Conclusion : liberalism secularism democracy tries to bend Islam values by all way.
you didn't let Haqqani speak.
could the men not bear to be in the same room as the women?
lol that's probably her request.
..I am Iranian and I am against blasphemy law and sharia law.
We must fight against sharia law by all means land, water 💧, air and ideas.
Soon houthi ,isis, Hamas and hezbullah backed by Iran will destroy Mecca and medina
...well for me as a Westener not so much Islam as a different religion, but the fat that Muslims have not gone through reformation is the problem. How can you have democracy when people interpret religious script literally six centuries on???
The form of islam now being followed in many parts of the world in islamic and non islamic countries is the Saudi backed wahabi which teaches a strict interpretation. It also opposes democracy in favour of sharia law. Imagine Saudi law spreading into western countries. This could be reality within 20-30 years with the current birth rates. Belgium could be one of the first to feel the effects. I sam a british sikh guy, born in the uk and proud to be British but i can see my kids when they are older with their own kids looking to emigrate back to india if islam is not driven back.
Hussain has been given least time and and opportunity as is the tradition of muslim world. But he made his point bang on...
I give alot of credit for Al Nahdah party in Tunisia, I really hope this experiment works
Shadi hamid 👍 eloquent and had excellent logical points
Btw: stoning is not as easy as one may thing! Those who stone women they are practicing Islam in the wrong way! That's why Allah swt says if u want to accuse anyone of adultery or Zina or any wrong doings of this nature to have four witnesses who actually seen a man and a woman in the actual act of having an affair like literally seeing a man and a woman doing the actual act or din if u know what've mean! So u see Allah swt from his mercy made it so hard that no one can actually get caught even if they maybe sinful bc their and everyone's sin is with Allah swt and he deals with the sinful as he pleases and he doesn't want that type of sin to come out in public and ruin the communities! By placing such rules to have four witnesses of male is a rahma a blessing from Allah swt so that no ones sin is or should be revealed in public meaning people should stay away from spreading such rumors even if they see a sinful man and a women and let Allah swt deal with them! Bc chances are that
there is no stoning in the Quran only in the made-up hadiths from the Umayyad Caliphate
Islam and democracy is a perfect example of contradictio in terminis .
good discussion...
Separating religion from politics ~ Has nothing to do with “ liberal values “ ~ If you are a follower of Allah ~ Then you need to stop the politics ! ~ Because Allah is not political ! ~
Also the word secular means nonreligious ~ If you have a secular attitude ~ It means you take a nonreligious ~ Spiritual approach to life ~ For instance I can be inspired by greed to be selfish or I can be inspired by love to be kind ~ A secular approach to life can be a negative thing or a positive thing ~ It all depends on what inspires you ~ A religious approach to life ~ Is often times narrow minded and dogmatic ~ A secular approach to life ~ Is open minded and subject to change ~ If things don’t work out right ~
It's true,because if you ask me what bother me about Islam, the answer would be, sharia and jihad.
+Julio Cesar Quiles. Sharia, Jihad, the oppression of women and discrimination against women, Jews and non-Muslims, is what bothers me about Islam.
Then if you think Islam is all about what you said, you are wrong, Islam means peace, and is the solution of the problems of humanity, Islam is against the oppression of women and discrimination against women, Jews and non-Muslims, the murder, robbing, terrorism, killings, etc, but I am sorry most most people learn Islam from the media and other people who don't know Islam or who are against Islam.
But I am happy, and whatever happens to the Muslims, still Islam is the most spreading religion in the world, especially in West countries.
count the innocent people islam killed and those non muslims killed and compare
that may make sense to you
do you know the meaning of the word jihad?
Motaz Osama
I know what it means to ISIS and what is doing to the world.
Issue is that once you bring religion to an argument it becomes
personal. Even if the argument in question does not effect the society a
politician or group invokes religion, people passion are flamed. Even a
sane argument will become toxic and there will be no space for
rationality. I firmly believe that religion should be practiced in home, temple, mosque or church. Also religious leaders should stay out of politics and should concentrate on spiritual and moral studies. Being a student of science I seriously believed that the current century will be dedicated to science, technology and general well being of society as the technology was radically changing people life. But the same technology is being used to kill and incite violence. This is sad state for evolution as there is a group of people who want to go back to 7th century by using weapons of 20the century !!
I think Shadi is making a more realistic and even pessimistic case about religion and politics in Middle East.
Thank you Al Jazeera and Mahdi for these debates...On the gentleman's point saying that if a majority of voters chose an Islamic Oriented Governing Body, the point I would have made with regard to our(Judo-Christian societies,) is we have a/or the bill of rights, where NO MATTER who comes to power, an individual's secular or religious rights are guaranteed...Could this guarantee ever exist in a quote, unquote, "Islamic Country?"
...thanks again...rr
.On the gentleman's point saying that if a majority of voters chose an Islamic Oriented Governing Body, it's still a democracy. (Sorry, this was omitted when I put it up...)
That is what happened in Egypt when the muslim brotherhood were elected and sharia law was strictly enforced. Then they were forced out by the military and then banned. Its is like brexit vote. Once we realised the implications of leaving the eu it was too late and now majority of people regret doing it
Even though there is no legitimate Islamic document that specifically address governance like the bill of rights, it is commonly agreed that an Islam Oriented Governing Body would look like/operate the way it was operated during the time of prophet Muhammad and the first four caliphs, also known as the "rightly-guided" caliphs. Which derive most of its laws from the Qur'an and the Hadith. Which, contrary to popular belief, actually guarantees the rights of all non-muslims and demands that they be treated equally before the law.
To get an idea of what it would be like I suggest you take a look at the Medina Charter, drafted over 1400 years ago by prophet Muhammad himself. Where it even described the way to treat prisoners of war. With kindness. Something alien even in some countries today, let alone over 14 centuries ago.
Or take a look at the pledge that caliph Umar gave to the people of Jerusalem. How he pledged to guarantee the personal safety and religious freedom of the non-Muslim locals of Jerusalem.
I believe that these are the examples that we can look up to, sadly very different with what we currently commonly see in the middle east today
I am Iranian and I am against blasphemy law and sharia law.
We must fight against sharia law by all means land, water 💧, air and ideas.
Soon houthi backed by Iran will destroy Mecca and medina.
Mehdi is a great debater and analyst... I am a huge fan of him
Logical pow me too
The problem is with relegion itself, it's teachings contradicts democracy. So to reach democracy relegion needs to be revised or quarantined.
It's intresting how Amb Haqqani did not get enough time to speak as Alzaeera did not like what he had to say.
This is a tough debate with a never ending conclusion
Its has a conclusion. Islam and Democracy... bad combination
Islam means peace, and is the solution of the problems of humanity, Islam is against the oppression of women and discrimination against women, non-Muslims, Islam is against the murder, robbing, terrorism, killings, etc, but I am sorry most most people learn Islam from the media and other people who don't know Islam or who are against Islam.
But I am happy, and whatever happens to the Muslims, still Islam is the most spreading religion in the world, especially in West countries.
I love how the cut the Pakistani guy when he went about Islam and nation. "Debate".
It's hilarious how the Egyptian critic is not for "majority rules" politics. Isn't that what democracy in all its essence is? Islam and democracy and compatible. Liberal democracy however is a very different story. A conservative model however would be perfect.
I saw the title and laughed for 30 mins straight 🤣😂😂
I love the board table you have.
"I have left two matters with you. As long as you hold to them, you will not go the wrong way. They are the Book of Allah and the Sunna of His Prophet."
With all due respect, I am reminded of the saying that ones beliefs do not make one a better person. Ones behavior does.Neither individuals nor leaders of nations follow the admonitions in any holy book.
The only person I see who makes sense and is spot on is Husain Haqqani, and rightly so based on our (Pakistan) experience with religion thus far, and its horrific implications in a long run, some of us who have unshackled our minds know it quite well that; State affairs and Religion should be kept far apart.
Haqani is a male prostitute.
What he knows about Islam or democracy .
I have never ever seen muslim apologists win a rational debate.
Or have one.
+Mahdi 21 exactly.
He knows what it is.
+Mahdi 21 is that an argument?
Yes define the terms like 'rational' by your wish and then say they lost. What an irony!
+Maruf Sajjad yes.
Just like claiming that Islam is great, conflicting with the facts that Islamic states are amongst the worst places in the world to live.
Your answer for islamic flexibility towards democracy is visible from the persons ethnic backgrounds in your show
Very interesting .
Hussain Haqani, made more sense whenever he spoke and I felt like he was kept from speaking by Mehdi.
As we know that when any one make some thing like a machine, smart phone or anything else there is always a booklet with it in order to get max. output from it and to use it safely, because the man who made this thing better knows these thing and we are just users..... in the same way as Allah S.W.A. made humanity, in order to tell the proper and secure way of living He gave us Qur'an and Islam as guidance. and if we don't follow then we will get confused and confused........its a straight path
Faisal Kalim well said akhi
You're just too lazy to think yourself what is right and wrong. Listen to your heart, not to some scripture written by another human 1400 years ago where mankind lived like savages.
..I am Iranian and I am against blasphemy law and sharia law.
We must fight against sharia law by all means land, water 💧, air and ideas.
Soon houthi ,isis, Hamas and hezbullah backed by Iran will destroy Mecca and medina
Democracy, without freedom or individual rights, is pretty much just a repeat of Greek Democracy, where you can still have a slave population and a free population, and still call it Democratic. And I use "individual rights" as opposed to "human rights" because it emphasizes the fact that the individual could be hated, despised, and in violation of everything his society admires, and still, his rights are protected, and the government is burdened to protect his rights.
Once you understand that, and you understand that when we talk about democracy today, we are not talking about the Greek version, but the Enlightenment Version, you realize it can only exist where there is a secular government, and that is what is being resisted in much of the Islamic world. It is the right not to be a Muslim, and the right not to have to abide by Sharia or Islamic Law, but only the rights that all individuals are bound to abide by that matters. It's the freedom to criticize Islam as a non-muslim, with the knowledge that your rights are protected even if it incesses people, that's what liberal democracy is, and that is what the majorities in these countries don't want to defend, and which is why their democracies do not produce modern results, because it based on ancient understandings of the concept.
Yeah sure, I would say something, but I'm afraid of what might happen if I do, so I won't...
Well, how many fairies can dance on the head of a pin?
They are a million miles from anything remotely democratic. Where's the discussion around jobs, business, health, taxation, state vs private sector, the future of young people, population growth, emigration (of educated elites?), women's rights, minority rights, access to the law, benefits etc etc?
The role of Islam is peripheral to ALL of this. When it becomes the focus of debate there is simply no democracy however much these guys like to think it's important.
Hey ho........
These guys are fooling themselves and those countries they purport to speak about if they seriously believe life is going to get any better if the state give authority to clerics, introduces stoning and amputation, building mosques and madrassas, and "rights" that have not evolved for 1400 years etc etc.
The Islamist agenda is just substituting one form of authoritarianism with another. It doesn't address any of the issues that might impact on people.
For cying out loud. We went trough the Ottoman empire, and the Inquisition, I will oppose any religion trying to govern upon me.
The problem is one cant live without a world view.
Islam and democracy r poles apart from each other..Islam is a complete code of life,even politics r derived from Islam...Islam directs us about the supremacy of Allah Almighty and run with the help of messengers,Prophet Muhammad s.a.w and then His appointed Mola or Imam..
My sentiments throughout this video: Mona, we are losing you Mona.. Mona, the connection is getting lost =D
Prophet Muhammad (SM) & his followers (khilafa system) showed the best model of Islamic governance beautifully in the history of the world.If you go through history,you'll better understand.Democracy isn't a ideology but a system where Islam isn't only a religion but it's a ideology & it's a complete code of both individual and national life.And Islam maintains people's opinion regarding voting system & acceptance of any laws which is similar to democracy.
Pakistan democratic!!!! what are you smoking ???
Pfffff you’re another indian obsessed with Pakistan. What is it with you guys. All vids on Pakistan and theres an indian waiting on the side to make a comment. Stick to talking about your own democracy - you know the one about Kashmir.
What do you mean by what are you smoking
@@DC-wp6oj Pakistan was never mentioned in the title. We have a large population and cheap internet so we are everywhere.
sumit lamba i dont understand the point you are making? Pls explain
A wise man first thinks and then speaks and a fool speaks first and then thinks.
Why is religion always the problems when policies of Islam is talked about