Intimate vs Tribal Gaslighting: Differences & How to Spot Them
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- čas přidán 3. 02. 2021
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Gaslighting is easy to miss. Especially tribal gaslighting - it's a whole different beast than the more commonly-known form of gaslighting called intimate gaslighting. Discover the true differences between intimate vs tribal gaslighting and how to spot them.
In this video, MedCircle host Kyle Kittleson and clinical psychologist / narcissism expert Dr. Ramani Durvasula answer...
What is tribal gaslighting or “gaslighting by tribe”?
What is gaslighting in relationships (aka intimate gaslighting) and how can someone spot it?
How is tribal gaslighting different than intimate gaslighting?
What are the major signs of gaslighting by tribe to look out for?
Can we walk through an example of gaslighting by tribe in action?
What can & should I do when this happens?
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Read the article Dr. Ramani mentioned HERE: aeon.co/essays/what-gaslighti...
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Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD)
Histrionic personality disorder (HPD)
Schizoid personality disorder (SPD)
Avoidant personality disorder (AVPD)
Paranoid personality disorder (PPD)
Schizotypal personality disorder (STPD)
Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD)
Obsessive compulsive personality disorder (OCPD)
Borderline personality disorder (BPD)
Dependent personality disorder (DPD)
Related: dissociative identity disorder (DID) formerly known as multiple personality disorder
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Dr. Ramani stalks strangers, exploits them, lies about them, and defames them, using their lives to promote herself video after video and labeling them narcissists.. It isnt ok. It isnt the truth. And it isnt sane. She manipulates and lies about information daily and doesnt stop after being asked. Why are these types of people promoted here? They ruin lives with lies to promote themselves.
@@patricehoward9831 Who is she doing this to?
@@User5_ Me. And she does it daily in her videos. She is the gaslighter and pretends she doesn't do these things Its intentional "denial of another person's reality," what she says in this video. She manipulates personal information she steals from strangers and pretends she is here to save the world to help others, and she doesnt stop when asked. She is talking exactly about what she does. There are several people, including her, who ruin lives to promote themselves
@@ark194 a therapist wont stop abuse
@@patricehoward9831 it sounds like you are feeling very much frustrated, angry and hurt from the situation in which you described and understandably so. This information is rather disturbing, disappointing and disheartening to hear about, and it's truly unfortunate that you have had such a difficult experience. However, It sounds like you are going to have to go talk to someone who can help advise you on how to remedy this kind of difficult situation and especially if you have made several attempts in good faith to manage this on your own but feel like you haven't gotten any results or even acknowledgement. Perhaps seek out professional advice for some information, recommendations, and or options. Good luck.
Tribal gaslighting is why I walked away from my whole family. That was five years ago, the best decision I ever made!
it was life changing for me, too. wish I had done it sooner.
@@kimberleyh1946 Me too.
❤❤❤ sometimes that is necessary. Glad you did what was right for you.
Yes, I already knew that my family would end up gaslighting me to death. That is part and parcel of my mother love bombing my sister with the early inheritance of a free home. Suddenly, I’m pretty sure that my sister would’ve started telling me what a great person mom is, that I’d have inherited early, if I’d have just been better to her, although the logistics wouldn’t allow since my mother lives in the house I was to inherit. But, my sister would’ve fauxgotten about when she threw mom out of her apartment, calling her a phony. I’d simply be the envious sibling on the outside, that looks as if I’m looking too much at mom’s death, for the inheritance, when that’s actually been my sister, who’s mostly been absent throughout the years. Add to it that we come from a world that believes that anything a mother does is her option, undoubtedly right, and should go unchallenged. I’d look wrong, no matter how right I may be and I felt the best way to eliminate issues, as best I can, was to walk away entirely.
The good thing about walking away is that you kind of can’t be accused of getting into a rather uncivilized looking tug o war, where, to others, you end up looking like some greedy nut. Just walk away, with some measure of peace.
@@privateprivate8366 I'm sure you feel much better after walking away from all that mess.
When I'm told I'm being too sensitive, I respond " Maybe your being too insensitive".
That's brilliant. An excellent way to hold on to your reality while calling them out.
Nice! 💖👍💖
thank you for this. i am quite often told that I take things too seriously, you just inspired my new response: “maybe you don’t take things seriously enough”
@@fortzafit-train207 👍👌GREAT!!🎶🎼🎙🎤🎸💯🎸🎙🎼🎧🎹🎵🎵🎵🎵🎵🎶🎶🎶🎤💯🎸🎼🎧
Exactly I'm told your shot your shot I guess that means what I'm doing is working remove all emotion try as you may to get supply The cold hard truth I am shot and thank yourself for getting me to that place where I am void uninterested in verbal ping pong . Cat and mouse games.Offered a book to read Still has not read it. Takes under an hour Who Moved My Cheese 🧀
Now I'm worried about all of the times I took part in tribal gaslighting without knowing it. We need to be so careful about not diminishing people's experiences.
All it took was one person to say hunny your being emotionally abused. And your not the crazy one in all of this
god bless that one person
Amen!!
When someone is telling me that, I have heard time believing I'm being abused.
@@AntoDesormeaux absolutely 😊 she is definitely the reason I see things, him, our relationship. . Totally different now!
I now what you mean just one person who has your back
"Are you sure?" Is a form of gaslighting. "You sure that's what happened? Maybe you were angry and....blah blah." Is gaslighting as well.
I seriously hate that
Thank u
YeSURE
Yeah it sucks because a lot of the time the public has no idea how these people really are. And it's hard to reach out to people
@@ShellyPatterson Yes because "Life is a gas". The Ramones. Now i know what it means. Everyone gaslights us, here and there, in our lives. So we get disoriented.
@@darrinsiberia Ouch
This is my entire family. I'm so much more happier that I have no contact with them.
I am older and due to the pandemic I was not able to leave the house much..so the gaslighting is worse.....now.. and ..I need to leave .........I am caught between a gaslighting family and ex husband.......these types make you feel confused and use you as a scapegoat.....for all of their problems.
@@cynthiabiel7714 less comment less interaction remove yourself emotionally is liberating the downfall which can be maddening is realizing that we have been reacting and trying to teach, defend ourselves and rolemodel to ppl who do not believe they are one micro part of the problem when in fact they are the entire problem Let them go way before you go let them go, when you realize past the smoke and mirrors that in some bizarre weak and despicable way they have even pulled who you thought was your most trusted true friend or family into their slime. They integrate even into your most private places even Dr offices attorneys they are that insecure. Let it be play that Beatles song 🎵 get an ear bud wear it bc everything they try to drive you the brink of having to comment to them. Even turn down the TV I'm going to bed etc etc
I can't wait to be in that position to leave
@@cynthiabiel7714 be strong. For me. For you. For us. Please be strong. Say "shut the hell up" everytime someone gaslight you and maintain your right mindset. You will win at the end.
@@cynthiabiel7714 I am praying for you right now.
A therapist once told me "the sickest person in the house is the one who makes the rules."
Or the healthiest (setting boundaries)
@@sweetflay999 well, boundaries are supposed to be negotiated, rules are usually imposed.
@@sweetflay999 absolutely life is like emotional landmines, I'm amazed after all the misery I tolerated that they have an incredible way of obtaining followers and getting ppl "we thought we knew & trusted" to align with them, I'm still beyond words and understanding that. Just WOW
@@imhenotic negotiate with narcissist and those that follow the bully Impossible. Personally can attest ppl as close as you thought you can be how very disgusted they were of the narcissist and their group, ended up tossing what ever you thought you had for decades away to coat tail the narcissist and their circus
@@darlenealessio7609 don’t waste your time and energy trying to convince anyone about the reality...let folk believe whatever they wanna believe, enough has been stolen already, hold on to your peace
I was able to stop my gaslighting by using bodycam to prove my reality.
oh "they" HATE recording devices , HATE them!!!...
@@randycoolbaugh1408 are the 1st to use it, laughable they are very quite! How ODD.. TELLING AT BEST, OK NOW PLAY THAT BACK TO YOURSELF, What's wrong with that picture, all of a sudden the control artists is quite.. good luck getting any rational thinking person that some decided to argue with no feedback What they do best wind you up like a toy top watch you spin and hope out of control then they succeeded oh to record they think they confirm against you
Can you recommend a body cam?
That's what I'm gonna do either. Coz I'm a pretty positive & strong person & I' m an object to intimate or tribal gaslighting, unfortunately 😭
Im nearly there a body cam would have saved my life
I changed my entire career path due to this... Now I enjoy my purpose and my integrity. Most difficult and best decision.
This happens in friend groups too. Several people got together to gang up on one person that was doing well and even was the person that started the community group. It's hard to believe that a group of 5-10 people would make up big lies about you just to get you kicked out of the group and have your success taken away but it happens. I've seen it and it's hard to believe so many would just go along with it.
This happened to me recently with a group of old friends. Two narcissistic women decided to team up and have me shunned from the group. The part that hurt the most was the others that went along with them.
dang this is exactly what happened to me. whole life got swooped out from under me. so insane
@@Mirabelle528 the sad part is I would not have believed this kind of thing happens unless I saw it for myself. If I hadn't seen it for myself I would have thought the shunned person would have done the horrible things he was accused of but because I knew the person and I saw what happened I knew he was polar opposite to how they were portraying him and he didn't do any of the claimed offenses. It was a very sad situation and shows you how Mom mentality can take over and destroy an innocent person's life.
Oh ditto! Plus my spouse joining with them!
I once dated a guy who literally told me “sometimes I have to knock you down a peg, bring you down to reality because you think you’re too smart for your own good, humble pie is necessary from time to time”...🤨 I told him to “try and level up instead...challenge yourself a bit”.. he was never able to tell the truth the 1st time around when you ask a simple question. Incredibly infuriating. “Did you XYZ?” His answer was never a straightforward one before he ever told the truth. It was like dealing with a child. That relationship ended as quickly as it started.
They never feel the need to humble themselves don't they. "Humble" pie for one.
I hate it when people feel like it's their job to "humble" other people. Especially when they have no idea what's it's like to be you. It's just based on their own jealousy
@@ashleycnossen3157 “Always better to humble someone else than to be humbled yourself” my covert narc father said that once…cut him off this year I refuse to deal with a man that was never really there at all my entire life.
Sounds like my ex
Good!
i can listen to Dr. Ramani speaking, all day, everyday
me 2
Agree
She's the mother figure I never had 👐
Ditto. A lot of ah ha moments.
I have
These Medcircle videos with Dr Ramani are changing my life. My spirit is so crushed from narcissistic abuse and being gaslit every time I have tried to speak about it. I've never known a pain like this before. It's been going on for decades but i finally put up boundaries to protect myself and my wife and kids, and then all hell seemed to break loose. I have no hope for these other relationships and I feel like i have lost my whole family due to the triangulation and deceit and narcissistic games. I can only focus on the kids and my wife and grieve what I have never had. I'm learning so much from your videos. Thankyou for making and sharing these videos.
DITTO😏
I felt insane for years... pretty much almost my whole life because my super Christian family kept telling me I’m the extrovert of the family and ‘Couldn’t possibly be depressed’. I’m not. And I was.
I’m sorry that they treated you this way
:( Christians can struggle with depression and they should have still treated you with love by trying to understand you, perhaps looking for professional help, praying with you and for you instead of undermining it.
I get the same thing from my sister and I hate it, she would tell me that what I'm feeling is not my emotions but the Devil is lying to me!
Or more logically she would say that's biological either my iron must be low or vitamin D ,or because I had problems with my thyroid.
@@UnderTheShadowOfHisWings
Yupppp, no more church !
Ain't about to give a ratsazz if n e one wants to judge.✌🏼🤍
@@selfesteem3447 lol same here...my church just taught guilt and sin every sunday i never wanted to go
This is exactly what my siblings have done to me on countless occasions. I am so much better off without any of them lerking about.
It's spelled "lurking". I tell to help, not criticize.
@@alysencameron361 how does your spelling correction validate anything she said?
Same! They have followed in my Dad’s footsteps. He taught them how to treat me.
Left my bpd sister 30 yrs ago. Nice 30 yrs
The parents teach them how to behave. They assigned a role in their mind to you like a primitive status dynamic. Very unsophisticated parenting and probably very normal.
I feel strong contempt towards perpetrators of gaslighting.
Me too
SAME!!!
Yes ditto. If it happens again in the future it's a good indicator they are not good if they completely deny your reality. A decent person will consider your take. If you tell a decent person that their actions made u uncomfortable, they would listen and give u the benefit. An asshole won't and it's bye bye at that point bc ive wasted 26 years trying to love my narc to health. No change in that time.
I FEEL EXACTLY THE SAME WAY !
I still have nightmares about my classmates gaslighting me, I didn't realise that was it until now :(
Sometimes there is also some triangulation going on in the workplace. Maybe “Bridget” is a monster to the new person and only the new person. That happened to me in an older workplace.
Yes! They need a scapegoat and a person to hate because they are cowards who cannot confront their issues with others!
OMG I thought it only happened to me!
I was wondering the same thing about Bridget...
It can't be a matter of unanalysed speculation. If there is a conflict then it needs to be examined or the person who is complaining can do it to you.
I remember reading an article about gross history textbooks in the Deep South that said things like ‘some slaves were treated well and loved and respected their masters.’ This makes me think about the huge amount amount of tribal gaslighting that must have been done to the black community and is still done
horrific
What about a ROOM MATE WHO BURNED and threw out 1980 baby bk that cannot be replaced?
Can we JUST PLEASE GET OFF THE PITY PARTY, IM BLACK, HELP HELP HELP..GEESE..GET A MF GRIP WHY DONT YA? WHAT HAPPENED TO THE STRONG INTELLIGENT FUNNY BLACKS THAT THOUGHT AND DONE FOR THEMSELVES?
@@angiecrain153 LADY WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING
@@angiecrain153 u are gaslighting rn
The constant gaslighting by professional liars is a good reason to stop watching TV.
So many tv shows have exactly this,, what you speak
At 13:44 in video above, spot on, friends will and most often respond that way, but in families and work place LOYALTIES ARE DILUTED. IMO It is the person that is the gaslighter Narcissist who is great at selling great at charisma great at finding that family member with a specific need work on that provide a service, offer help a loan etc they get ppl in dependency stage, then the person that is their main victim loses the no matter how close the family member is. They begin to side with the gaslighter bc the gaslighter has found their weak spot i could go on
😆😆😆
This is an amazing comment. So well said. Thank you
@Martine K if you read Gerry Mander's work, you would probably have a different opinion on TV, which is designed to stimulate more senses at once, entrance the viewer, and while comveying lots of stimuli, paradoxically managing to convey LESS information than print, by design.
I really really like how you acknowledged that we can gaslight without meaning it, and tell us how to do it less.
There is a big tendency in some circles to approach these things in a very black & white manner, saying "everyone who does X is toxic, cut them out of your lives". And I find that very damaging.
Yep. Everyone is narcissistic at times. We can inadvertently gaslight if we were raised by narcisstic parents. The difference is how we feel about it when we realize we've done it. Narcissists enjoy it, normal people feel bad about it.
"everyone who does x is toxic, cut them out of your lives"
I noticed this extremist trend as well, in the age after divorce, and it seems both cowardly and deadly. If someobe decides to "cut people off" they lose the opportunity to communicate their values and model that, and the exiled one never gets a chance to reform and emulate the positive exampke. We rub off on each other and in that sensecwe are contagious. But there is a difference between exposure to a sick person, which could even boost immunity, and exposure to a "toxic" material imvoles poison and death.
@@coppersense999 Yeah, it's a very small minority of people who can't grow and learn from their mistakes. People who commit massive or repeated violent crimes, powerful abusers, stuff like that.
But the more you act like people are monsters for being immature and making mistakes, the more people's motivation to grow and learn will erode, because they won't believe they can do it. And that even if they do their best, they'll be forever branded as bad people and equated to sociopaths.
If there's no escape and you're doomed regardless of your best efforts, there's really no reason to do it. And that's especially true if your mental health is vulnerable. You can't just summon will out of nowhere, you need motivation and to believe in yourself.
Interesting. Most of the gaslighting I've been subject to, in my family and in my workplace, have been more along the lines of "Well, he didn't mean it that way" or "She was really upset about [blank] and didn't really mean it." Those answers would always frustrate me, and now I know why!
Some years ago I changed jobs and soon got the feeling that I could do nothing right. I had done really well in my previous position and found it really distressing in this new site.
I couldn't put my finger on it.
Thank goodness for some decent coworkers who took a risk and took me aside and told me 'It's not you, it's her (manager)'.
Turns out she had done same to my predecessor and they were unhappy to see her doing it again.
Saved my life, ultimately.
I'm so glad to hear that they told you that, thank goodness. It can feel like, "apparently everything's fine other than me, so what's my problem? Am I crazy?"
I am going through the same situation and unfortunately my coworkers bolster my boss's viewpoint for whatever reasons they may have. And I am constantly enduring the stress of first, the judgmental behaviour of my boss and second, the self-doubt. I am living in a mental fog. Sometimes I even wonder if I have tricked myself into depression and seeing things that don't exist.
@@lemonspring6425 Please, quit as soon as you can.
I've had similar experiences! Thank you to everyone who has pointed out realities and saved people from further torment! No job is worth the pain.
I'm so happy for you! God bless you!
This was very good but it made me feel very upset - I was gaslight by my whole family, parents and siblings. And even in my 50s it still happens.
It happens to alot of people. Don't feel alone. Not your fault.
@@vickikaravas8774 thanks Vicki, very kind of you to respond to me. Love Dr Ramani, she's very kind and knowledgeable. Just some days it just pushes a few buttons.
@@thehappywanderer6469 good point - families can be a very volatile place to be.
Ikr 😞
Same. It’s very painful but I’m learning to detach and not take their behavior personally. We all went through a lot of trauma. As the only one who got help for it I understand they just aren’t capable of facing reality.
My dad gaslit me a lot as a child. It was very abusive and still has an impact on me at 58 years old. It completely made me doubt myself and cause internal conflict.
Oh my gosh...I get this from my mother, my sister and the adult children...I 'do' understand the desire to 'maintain' the status quo...the ease (for them)...of 'wanting things to stay the same'...For the person enduring gaslighting...this can be soul-sapping.
Why are you bringing these things up? Why are you trying to stir up trouble (you troublesome black sheep)? You're just bitter. How can you say that about your parent, they adore you! etc
Yeah all that crap was said to me and when I'm around these people I just want to sleep and not wake up. Take care of yourself and keep your strength up, you know your truth and even though they'll never accept it, they can't tear it down anymore ❤
I want to smack them in the face
Same
@@AntoDesormeaux Oh my😔
@@eirikmurito sometimes anger , even being totally unable to understand whats going on , why they are even doing this brings me to the same point .the fact that they would never take this point of you if another person told them the same story or presented the same facts to them , makes it even more painful.
I've been gaslighted at work. But that's why I keep documentation
Judges love documentation ...especially when the other side has none.
I started documentation as well. 😁
On gaslighting @ work, what do you think is most important documentation you write?
On gaslightining what do you think is most important documentation @ work?
Yes, Dr Ramani is spot on. I thought I was overly sensitive but, when I read my journal, again after a few months, it finally dawn on me that his family members are indeed siding him, and I am not going crazy. I spoke with a good friend who advised me to pack and leave as she is of the opinion that I was in a dangerous position.
In my experience of being gaslighted, I know that it did happen- I never doubt that it didn’t happen but it feels very damaging when one or more people are saying that you’re talking crazy talk and telling lies. Knowing that they are prepared to do this (if they are family) is also very damaging- You definitely have to be prepared to disengage to get your power back.
How do you KNOW though? Is it possible that you really are crazy and the way you are remembering them isn't how they happened?
I mean really, do crazy people KNOW they are crazy? Or do they think they are sane, and have no idea that what they are thinking is wrong until someone tells them?
Do you have a history of schizophrenia? How about manic-depressive? Psychosis? Drug use? Getting enough sleep?
@@rodneyzirrillo5961 U gaslighted. What a jerk.
Would love to hear more about this in context of medical gaslighting - it can be done intimately (by one doctor or specialist) and tribally (the entire Medical system)
Before superior testing equipment existed, anything doctors couldn't readily see was all in someone's head. I had a dear friend die from cancer because doctors insisted she had the flu, was overwhelmed at work or stressed out by her home life. They waited until they could not longer deny her symptoms (9 months,) before actually treating her. Yes, she got a second opinion. Doctors for millennia believed babies didn’t feel or remember pain and that blacks were hypertensive because they process sodium more efficiently. Constant oppression and threats for centuries, followed by 150 years of micro aggressions make you either physically ill or want to punch a somebody in the face. Read any article about racism in medical practice. You will be shocked.
Also ask any older gay person about how marriage was supposed to cure them of their "phase" or "mental illness." So many people were deceived by a spouse who was in the closet, who was taught love would fix it. Society's lies are stunning.
@@gaillewis5472 lol it's not just "before superior testing equipment existed", I have multiple sclerosis and I've been gaslit by doctors for a year that wouldn't believe me that I didn't feel my skin from the neck down and refused to give me an MRI. They even wrote me a prescription to the psychiatrist. That was in 2012.
Turns out if they listened to me, they could've gave me medication that would've stopped it in its tracks and now maybe I wouldn't be stuck as a 32 year old without a job or a diploma. Every time I tried continuing college after that I got another relapse and ended up with a paralyzed leg. Now my body is better but with 45 brain lesions I'm extremely tired all the time.
Also, sorry for your loss. I've had friends die too and I know for a fact how hard it can be.
@@radiomandelbrot5868 have you tried holistic.ihave had neural tumors and fibromyalgia, diet changeand holistic has helped me
@@kirstenholmquist7074 yup, with the help of my father who's a researcher, and one of his friends who's an MD who has MS and his wife who's a nutritionist. They wrote a book, and my dad taught me how to read scientific studies and evaluate their reliability.
I basically spent 8 years reading on the subject every day, experimenting on myself and taking notes. I'm extremely lucky to have had the support system and the means to navigate all these conflicting informations. I'm also extremely lucky to have a neurologist who supports patients making their own experiments, and who is very informed and aware of every lead that people in my situation are likely to follow, as well as their risks and benefits.
In the last few years, I've been in remission of a very active disease and for the last few months, I've been able to start focusing on my professional activities again. I've also got some therapy, which helped cope with the sequela from my disease and the mental strain and trauma from all these years. That was also a huge factor in bringing my energy levels back up.
@@radiomandelbrot5868 Your story is inspiring and your support network is amazing.
It's so encouraging to know you have taken control of your health and life.
High demand groups or certain religions can tribal gaslight
For sure
Try a town full of expats. Yikes.
That's what many rape victims face if they come forward.
And many do! Scientology…
My father and dear friend suffered so much in the medical and hospital system. Gaslighted many times. It is heartbreaking to witness. Their bodies deteriorated. Spirits weakened.💓💓The strongest people I know.
"Every time you gaslight someone, you diminish them."
Who would believe you ?
Dr Ramani please address tribal gaslighting in the Medical System.
Thank you so much for your knowledge and insights. So many pieces of the puzzle coming together. ❤️
This is soothing medicine for my PTSD of being in a relationship with a narcissist
This was way to close to home for me. It took a friend turning up at my house every week to take me outside that eventually bought me back to reality.
I had to get away from that environment for like a year to start realizing some things. Give that friend a hug from me, they're a treasure
Had to rely on my ex of 6 years to bring me back to reality. Told the pastor a bit about what was going on also. Been sick with who knows what, depressed, and was suicidal the day I was discarded and even then I apologized to the the guy who discarded me for playing the same mind numbing games he played to abuse me. My ex says to just focus on myself to heal. I’ve lost a good church do to the guy who betray me but apart of me wants to say no I don’t need to and go back. I probably won’t be going back do to how far it is but if I did and I saw this man I’d unfortunately have to pretend like he does not exist this is how cunning and manipulative he was.
@@mariahconklin4150 10 months ago you made this comment. How have you been since then?
I just had a very personal moment realizing that my mother did that, denying my dad's abuse. I just broke up with a Narcissist and have been so harsh on myself about how many red-flags I let pass, and how many stories I told myself to 'unsee' what i was seeing... I can see how natural has become for me to deny my own reality.
I can even see how my mum was probably passing a learnt behavior over to me too. She was beautiful in so many ways but a total enabler (as I have been myself too). It is so complex and painful. There is no-one to blame, really just lots to heal and re-learn to trust that initial gut feeling that I automatically block... Sad but empowering to see this. Thank you so much for opening this space. Blessings!
Yep my mom is still an enabler. I get this
I have been working in education for... a long long time... it is rare that everyone is onboard... usually most people recognize and know the "rotten apple" but the hierarchy is in place to keep them in a "power position"
So tribal gaslighting is like scapegoating.
Look up terminology any one of the online speakers explains also scapegoating and gaslighting differences
@@darlenealessio7609 Well scapegoating is linked to gaslighting as in that the scapegoat him/herself will be psychologically abused BY the gaslighting. So yeah, you can technically "gaslight a scapegoat".
@@ChannelZero1031 I think the need to do either is subpar and unchanging worsens never improves why the need to support ppl in this proactively. Knowing what it is not excusing working hard at cutting off supply and getting away from it is the only healthy future one can have.
The reason many spouses won't go to couple counseling. A 3rd( objective) party breaks down the denial of the victims reality
Thats true with an exception. It can be dangerous to the one being abused If the counselor gets manipulated by one spouse pitting them against the other spouse. Then if the abused spouse stops going to counseling to avoid getting retraumitized it completely understandable. This happened to me with our first marriage therapist. She ended up blaming me for all of our issues and the counselor just literally took her "side" which is a red flag bc marriage takes two and so does therapy so I stopped going to that therapist bc she wasnt very aware. For a therapist to jump on the scapegoat bandwagon is minimally abusive up to bordering on illegal bc it could destroy a person already being abused. If the therapist notices valid issues on both sides then thar is a sign that she or he is on point. Since I am a rather large athletic male, and my wife is slim and waife the therapist completely jumped to a very wrong conclusion. Most men would not hit a woman bc of being raised with the idea that's wrong to hit a women. The problem is many woman today weren't raised to not hit a man or to not put down your husband etc. This faulty misperception is rampant in our society that men couldn't possibly be emotionally and/or physically abused by a women bcvof our strength or size and to just "suck it up". The tragedy is that 99.9 percent of men do NOT report abuse, or get help bc most are rightfully afraid of being judged or not believed. Thank GOD our second therapist recognized what was going on. In private he told me to either "radically accept her behavior" or run bc she was never going to be a healthy, trustworthy, warm, well adjusted spouse. He didnt directly call her shit out on the open which isnt right bc if the roles were reversed, you bet he would've called me out. The issue is a gender inequality issue where men today minimalized and marginalized whjch is wrong for anybody to do to anybody. Again, THIS is the problem where us men are now shoved aside, not believed, and we don't have the resources that women have. I couldn't leave and go to a shelter to get away from the hell I was in. My goal once i fully heal from my wifes cruelty for 26 years to write a book for men and tell my story. The kicker ... Im a trained therapist btw and I dudnt see it bc narcissists can be very manipulative...and plan on focusing my work on men's abuse recovery. I'm not implyimg anything derogatory about women at all btw....bc I know there are amazing women out there who wouldn't do this. It's just that resources for abused men are absent and it's wrong.
This is giving me so much insight....maybe I'm not as crazy as I think.
Good ! Because people can be brutal ! Stick to your guns ..👍
Good ! Because people can be brutal ! Stick to your guns ..👍
@@jengable4888 aw Jen ty. They can be brutal....and mean and take advantage of certain poeple
my moms like this and hope ur doing good
How about national gaslighting as we see most every night on the nightly news.
Fox News should be forbidden
@@orphanl they are ALL doing it. When we listen to the full speeches then hear the media report in such a way as to tell us what to think as they go long on opinions and video clips manipulated to change the narrative and omit crucial context of events in question.
I have been at events in person that were falsely reported on the mainstream media that was NOT Fox.
@@carolejackson8357 my opinions changed DRASTICALLY once I finally started doing my own intense digging and got my eyes on those FULL clips. All the scary things we "thought" the Trump administration was going to do Biden is ACTUALLY doing. And anyone who pushes back is labeled a right-wing extremist conspiracy theorist.
@@charitysChannels exactly. Even when Trump was campaigning, the media twisted narratives. I remember thinking, who does that! Then I would dig to find the full story. EVERY time the media was gaslighting us.
Now there is so much more censorship that it's harder to find full reports. Sometimes the media accidentally posts a fuller video but they later edit and remove the original. That happened a lot with the George Floyd case.
We are being manipulated by all the mainstream reports. Some are worse than others. And any of them can change when they get new owners.
This is why it's so important for average citizens to record news worthy events with our phones. BTW, did you hear reports of people who attended the Capitol on January 6th 2021 found that their phones lost charge quicker than usual. Those with battery backup were able to keep recording.
Those records are being censored. Those in authority at the Capitol must be investigated for the masses that were waved INTO the Capitol by the police. In one clip, a single police officer controlled the crowd with a wave of his hand to stop or move them forward. When that video was edited, the gaslighters made it appear as though the officer was being chased by the mob. In truth he was leading them.
The USA is in deep do do. I hope and pray those responsible will be exposed. Our leaders who are in fact attempting to support the constitution are being threatened-- both them and their families.
So well said Carole. I couldn't agree more
My whole family was a Tribal Gaslighters. Im a survivor. And I don’t know what to do next.
This is what I did.
1. Read great books on attachment styles to help understand how we get triggered.
2. Counseling to learn how to avoid dating someone like my family of origin.
3. Codependents Anonymous
4. Build a life that brings me up as a person and makes you and community proud.
5. Studied how to raise my emotional intelligence.
And yup as soon as I realized one narcissist in my life it was like waking up from my life.to an even worse nightmare. It's very hard to live in the dark with a big ass light on!
Yes!!!
It gets better. Hang in there, kiddo.
@@sherrygillis Thanks! I REALLY hope so. I feel like I will never get over the hurt and anger that has been planted in my soul!!! I feel like that man ruined me! And then to realize that my mother AND best friend from middle school! So for over 20 years were not much better. . . Actually my mother was so much worse that I am assuming that's how I got here to begin with. But honestly she at least
never love bombed me, or fed me lies that she was going to be that rock I had so desperately needed when I was 20. She was very verbal about how she didn't like me lol. But I have decided to take this time , and instead of focusing on how broken I feel, and focus on WHY I have such low self esteem and self love that I have allowed pretty much everyone in my life to use and abuse me. Telling myself if I wasnt being physically abused I was doing just fine! Surprise! Lol. Bruises heal so much faster!!! 😡These mental bruises I swear are going to be there forever! BUT it will be a good reminder to never go back. Plus I have 2 very smart and beautiful young girls watching and learning also. They have already seen enough. I'll be damned if I repeat history and don't break the cycle !! Thank you so much for your words of encouragement!! Its nice to know there is life after this!!! Lol
@@briannecaswell6204 You take it one day at a time - sometimes one hour at a time or one minute at a time - one foot in front of the other. Stay sober - sobriety really helps one to ground in their own body and not feel so much like we're on a roller coaster. YOU work to strengthen your self. When you feel that you just almost can't go on, because this is painful, remember you have those 2 little girls there watching you. They are learning - you are teaching. You walk, one step follows the next, out of this and into the light. It will get better and it will be well worth it.
You are teaching those 2 little girls to be healthy and well balanced with every step you take in the right direction. Someday you'll reap the harvest when your daughters don't marry some NPD, when they are happy and are raising your grandchildren the right way, the mentally healthy way.
I've tried to write a comment but can't stop thinking the group that gaslighted might see it and re focus and attack.its terrifying. Anyone experienced sudden extreme gaslighting from semi strangers or a very new group of friends or tribe / commune of people you thought were friends? The thoughts of self harm and suicide was forced on me out of nowhere. I went from 100% certain of myself to unstable in 2 hours. Keen to talk about similar experiences...
I feel like since realizing I have BPD, my whole life feels like I am being constantly gaslighted by nearly everyone in my life, but in reality it's just bc being authentic actually gives off an entirely different impression than it should.
When you've been gaslighted by a narcissist in your personal life, you see it happening in the bigger picture.
The microcosm and the tribal gaslighting macrocosm.
Do we roll up our sleeves and participate in reparations?
Or look after ourselves and put the abuse and gaslighting behind us?
Perhaps both?
Gaslighter: "You can't feel that"
Me: "I feel contempt towards you when you lie that I can't feel that. I can feel that. [I walk away and stop talking with the person]"
So glad to see therapist and tribal gaslighting discussed! In my very first office job I shared a cubicle with a seemingly "fun" woman I later realized was one of those gremlins who gets off on secretly messing with people. When her behavior got too bad (e.g. intentionally sabotaging joint projects and withholding information I needed to do my job), I told her if she didn't stop I would have to go to our boss and request mediation. She gave me the silent treatment as usual, but next thing I knew, I was called into the boss's office with her to hear him say "[Gremlin] has told me you are having communication difficulties and she suggested mediation." Grrr! But okay, maybe it'll help.
But no.
In the therapy session I tried to be fair and not use vilifying language, and I (foolishly?) did not interject when she lied repeatedly because I was trying to follow therapy rules. I assumed the (real!) version of events I shared would carry equal weight. Oh no.
The therapist could have acknowledged that there seemed to be a big divide between our stories that was not his role to evaluate, and recommended X or Y strategies for working together more productively. Instead, he literally said as his first and only feedback, delivered at the very end of the session, that I was being too sensitive and should work on that.
What!?!
When I started crying (it had been a lot!), he asked, "Why are you crying?" And when I managed to say, "Because she's lying," he just non-compassionately said we were out of time.
Wow.
(It occurs to me for the first time as I'm writing this that she may have seen him ahead of time to lay the groundwork of her lies because it was so off-the-charts unprofessional. But then again, some therapists just suck.)
At this same job, the boss had such poorly controlled anger management issues he made a student worker cry, and the toxic middle-manager in our four-person work group literally flipped me off during a one-on-one meeting by repeatedly rubbing her middle finger between her eyebrows with a smug expression. She looked less pleased when I did it right back and she realized she couldn't call me out without exposing herself! (Ah, the small satisfactions of standing up for one's self! ; - )
I also stood up for myself (AKA lost it) one day with the head boss when he tried to shame me for something that was the result of the Gremlin's passive aggressive sabotage, literally telling him "I am so tired of your fucking disrespect," and that if he'd addressed the issues with the gremlin that I'd previously told him about, this thing he was unfairly blaming me for wouldn't have been an issue.
Yikes!
To his credit, when I then doubled down by following up with a printout of an article on how to be a better boss (I still can't believe I did this!!!), he actually seemed to respect me more!
I did finally get some validation about the gremlin coworker years later. First there was the woman who told me with still-present pain that she had literally had to go into therapy years before from the distress of being friends with the gremlin and having her turn on her and badmouth her to coworkers who then turned on her too.
(The gremlin had turned coworkers against me, as well, but her most evil victory was getting my former best friend from school days to take her side against me. : - (
There was also an older disabled woman I ran into over a decade later who had worked in our immediate work group who told me with lingering pain how much the gremlin's inexplicable cruelty had hurt her. She was still questioning why the gremlin had turned against her or no apparent reason one day because for some Good people, evil for its own sake is inexplicable. This was a woman with a loving family and decades of life wisdom, but the gremlin's sneaky, vindictive poison years earlier was STILL hurting her.
Moral of the story: Accept that there will always be snakes in the garden, and DISENGAGE IMMEDIATELY once your spidey sense's start saying "what!? Because there is no working things out with someone who gets off on mind games and power trips and other people's pain.
This may be too macabre for some, but it has helped with my healing that both the gremlin and the passive aggressive flip off manager both died years ago (both younger than average, and without partners, but I still don't believe in karma). I wouldn't have wished it on them, but I am VERY glad they can no longer hurt new victims.
It has helped me in run-ins with subsequent malicious types to remember, "This reign of terror that seems unbeatable and endless WILL end--pause to check actuarial tables--most likely in X years at the very latest." 😲A bit intense, perhaps, but it helps!
No matter what pleasure the gremlins of the world try to get from hurting me, they lose, because my capacity for joy is infinite. And while they waste their lives in the sewage and the muck, I am out here loving others and myself, and reveling in the incredible beauty of this world. Happiness truly is the best revenge! 🌈🌻❤😄😻🌿
Think about the insidious silencing and harm this does to the person being gaslighted! Someone might already be suffering from PTSD, questioning their sanity. Great GREAT video. Applicable to so much.
In order for my mother to “forget” the emotional and physical abuse she committed against me, she got my younger sister to also deny the abuse happened. And now that we’re adults my sister lives with my mother and violently beats me up every time I visit.
Why do you visit. Run in the other direction and never, ever look back.
Tribal gaslighting is prevalent with racism in every workplace I’ve experienced.
yes it is my employers were greedy, i m targeted sept-iles quebec canada i m tried of this bullshit since december 2013
@Molly Mew Are you really trying to gaslight someone right now? Also, it's "every workplace they've experienced", not "every workplace".
PurplePinkRed, Good for you! I can’t believe the subtle way this person is trying to deny Tsudin reality by picking, only, one word she said while her whole statement is in writing for Everyone to see. Unbelievable!
Yes Molly, MANY
OMG don’t know how I ran across this video but I thank God! True story-a few years back I was a new grad nurse. Within weeks it was as if my name was on the hot seat in the nurse mangers office. Almost weekly, she claimed to have a new complaint against me by secret sources/coworkers. I was not allowed to stand up for myself nor meet face to face with the accuser. I was simply and smuggly told the complaint (usually a lack of skills, patient neglect etc up to stealing med keys) and warned then threatened with loosing my job. At first I took all responsibility until the charges against me became ludicrous and I refused to accept responsibility (by not signing the write ups) I knew something was very wrong with the nurse manger but now I see it was a group (tribal) gaslighting! The way I’ve always explained the situ-it was like the nurse manager hated me and wanted me gone and for whatever reason(couldn’t figure out why a whole unit would be in cahoots) many others fabricated stories and events for her (they threw the rocks at me and hid their hands, she turned a blind eye and covered for them). The nurse manger continually insinuated that I didn’t have the skills needed to be a RN. Although I had just graduated with honors, I began to believe her. What a dirty dirty bunch of narcissistic gaslighting flying monkeys! Oh boy am I so tickled right now 😂, I could never get the entire picture and now I do! It was an unspoken but manipulated tribal attack!! What a bunch of psycho-losers...😂
Someone once told me I could never do what I've been doing for 22 years. I could do it. I can do it, and I will continue doing it, until I decide differently. When the person telling you these things has control, it's time to get another job. I've quit more than one job without another lined up. It is risky, but your health is worth taking the risk.
Back in 1980, as a new grad RN , I experienced similar dysfunction on my first job out of RN nurse school. The head nurse had her favorites . I was pregnant. She assigned me to rooms of patients in isolation , TB, etc . Finally someone pulled me aside and warned me about head Nurse Rose Zerance . A few years later She was later fired and never worked and no one would hire her . She gerrymandered with the narcotics count. I had such high anxiety working on that unit , I called in the middle of the night and quit. That finally got the attention of the ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR OF NURSING , so they reassigned me to another unit where things were run more professionally. there was a critical shortage of nurses back then and I was prepared to bolt and go to one of the hospital’s competitors . There’s a not very nice slogan that goes “ nurses eat their young.” Some can be cruel to new graduates . I’m retired now and had many good experiences and a whole lotta’ professional growth . I guess word got around the hospital not to f*ck with me . I worked there at that hospital for 10 years . my favorite area was PACU.
Coming from a family of 10 this was awful amd continues into our 40s. 3 of them have separated from the toxic group so luckily got a relationship with them. The other 6 are detrimental to be around as my reality does not exist at all and they are all conversational narcissists who compete with each other over the air. So grateful for this work to help me continue to develop my life and my happiness.
Dr Ramani thank you for doing what you do...im serious. I first saw your videos on covert narcissism a few years ago and had finally found an answer and an explanation as to why I was constantly confused, sick and living in a fog for 26 years while with my wife. I was being systematically abused by my wife who i now know has covert narcissistic traits. She would regularly gaslight me after saying off putting things. She would regularly blow through our savings and say I did it and I used to actually consider if I did these things even with proof. Looking back through a lens of now questioning everything in my past with her, I am flooded with many insightful ah..ha's!! as I realized that behaviors that looked innocent enough to for anyone neurotypical back then, i instead looked at them through a filter of massive deceit, chronic infidelity, manipulation, undermining, back stabbing with anyone, and parental alienation for YEARS and I had no clue for most of it. My eyes opened thanks to you bc I never heard of covert narcissism. Then I paid attention and I knew some of what's shed done, but I stayed bc I didn't think I had options due to finances. Then her mask started to slip bc thank God my 13 year old son came forward. He told me he was greatly bothered by her regularly talking poorly behind my back about me to him and his siblings and he called it out. He told me and I pulled her aside in confidence and talked to her and she looked straight into my eyes and lied...and gaslit me and essentially my sons perception. She said she "never" talked behind my back. We then had a family meeting to process this bc my son wanted to talk about how he felt about it and she LIED in front our children who I now know knew exactly what she did and she denied EVER doing it!! She continued to lie about doing this even when I had obtained recorded proof multiple times after this fact. This was what opened my eyes to the pit bc if she can lie about so much then what else is she doing out if entitlement? I became very observant since and picked up on other troubling behaviors. I began to notice that she had a concerning tendency to oogle and gawk at men who are her type like myself...Italian or dark featured and built. She NEVER people watched like she claimed bc she never stared at random people...women, children, old people...only attractive men with her preferred appearance.. She denied EVER doing this and gaslit like it was second nature. Well since that time much more has come out including the possibility of massive chronic infidelity and the realization that shes very ill. The last straw was when I caught her oogling another man again but this time I didn't look away like i usually did. Look...it is perfectly normal to quickly glance at a person you are attracted to. I've done it but I'm talking about a quick half a second glance and no more out of respect for your significant other and your relationship. What she does is and was entirely a different gaze. My therapist said to look at her behavior in its entirety to break through her gaslighting...to ground my reality, to SEE her potential. I had sunglasses on and stared at her the entire event and she had no clue. I didnt call her out, I just observed. I saw her facial expressions and she was looking at the dude like she looked at me while intimate!! I knew her facial expressions while intimate!! She actually licked her lips seductively once while her eyes were locked on him...dilated pupils and flushed face. She actually looked like she was getting off! There was no more denying my perception and the house of cards came tumbling down. Her facial expression was burned into my corneas. My heart sank right there bc I knew what she was doing and that she was fully capable of cheating with anyone. Becayse if she can look at another dude like this,, that shes fully open to imaging sex with them while I was with her. In fact,, I felt like I was interrupting something intimate and like I was a third wheel. Moreover, I was ignored for much of the night while she was doing this. I could reliably predict where thus guy was just by looking at where her eyes were tracking. It was incredibly disrespectful and humiliating. There was no doubt that she would have had sex with him if I wasnt there. I knew at that moment that our marriage was over bc it was the proverbial straw...it confirmed that the one affair that I caught her in (that she even denied with unrefutible proof and outward inappropriate behaviors in front of our family). didn't stop with that one. There was so much more shes done!!. After that event i asked her about why she did this once again and I told her how it made me uncontrollable. She, once again had denied doing anything wrong. I told her right then that I wanted a divorce bc she lied about literally everything. She isn't ever the least bit remorseful...shes angry and haughty bc how dare I set healthy boundaries to the great queen Susie!! Its all just further supports her dysfunction. To anyone reading this who can relate...man or women, trust your perceptions and trust your gut bc its never wrong!! Do NOT stay for the kids, do not stay for the finances etc bc its just enabling their shitty behavior. So what if you have to claim bankruptcy bc of splitting your finances or you might not be able to have your toys cars boats etc. You can always get those back. It's abuse and you do not want your children thinking that it's acceptable to do to someone else or to accept it. I accepted it for years and always told myself excuses. I wasted 20 plus years but no more. That isolated cabin in the woods sounds like bliss Dr.!!!. No more chaos in my life...
When I saw the joy my mother got from telling me she could never see me as my siblings EQUAL I've called her in it & am no contact now @ 58yo.
As a trainmanager in Belgium, I will never forget the conversation I had with my boss in 2020, somewhere in between the 1st & 2nd covid wave. I was suffering from an extreme amount of stress due to the responsibilities that come with my profession. I noticed a lot anamolies in the trains ventilation systems, people who didn't want to wear a mask, overcrowded trains etc. I wanted to discuss this issue with her to advocate for extra support during the pandemic & her reaction was to question my competence, ridiculed my worries and tried to marginalize my experiences with arguments like "this year it's Covid, next year there will be something else" & misrepresented results of a questionaire ("you belong to a very small group..."). I was stunned at the time, took me quite a while before I realised she was gaslighting me
Have you ever thought about the possibility, that this whole “covid-thing” was a gaslighting on global level? Only a smart marketing to make lots of money with these useless masks and not to forget the huge amount of vax and there long term side effect?
I’m sorry for you your boss didn’t got you in your struggle. Hopefully you will find a better workplace soon.
@@maya_unplugged yup, I thought about it, and than I actually was sick from a covid infection, felt completely worn down for weeks in a row and struggled for over 3 months to regain my stamina... TWICE! Anyway, don't know why I even bother to defend myself. As if I could clear your brain fog
Another 'accidental' form of gaslighting is being too over protective, to the point where a child or young adult is believing that they're incapable of accomplishing anything on their own, or shouldn't be trusted making decisions for themselves.
At work I was looking at some maps and I noticed that the surveyor had made a mistake. When I pointed this out to the higher ups, they all acted like I was crazy. The company was involved in a lawsuit and I later figured out that my discovery would have proven that the opposition was correct.
A woman I knew, i told her everything.. no matter how much shame I felt (because deep down I knew that it sounds insane to others why I still stayed with the abuser)..
And after telling her everything 2 things happend
1. speaking up is always more powerful than shame.. It was like the biggest weight of all time was liftet and for the first time in a year I could feel myself again.. My body everything.. Like I woke up in some sort
And
2. And this is the important part.. She told me, that my response was normal. That for me having empathy it's quite normal and that I am NOT the one who should feel shame.. In fact he should be the one
And this opened my eyes.
I needed this reality check
We talked much about his behavior and my response and his response to my response.. And she saw everything so clearly and that made me see everything clearly
Like she gave me glasses
That made me take MY power back
It was like a switch.. I finally had the power to not react anymore
And he noticed very quick
From the normal switch between insults and him saying "that he will k*ll himself"
To "you need me and you know it.. We both know it" and "I will come to your house"
Sounds scary but people if you only knew what power I felt, I wasn't scared anymore
Me and the woman we called the police to just inform them that he threatened to come to my save space
And after him sending me for about 5 days all the time text messages (I blocked him but they still came through idk why) and me simply not caring anymore
I really didn't care less if he unalives himself(but I knew he wouldn't because he has always just said it when I wanted to leave), because I finally realized how much he was ready to put me through.. I didn't care when he insulted me and so on
I must say after gaining my power and clarity back, I almost found it hilarious (not really funny, but it couldn't touch me anymore and this made it so absurd) how he was the one saying that I needed him? How often he told me that I was too emotional and overreaction? That I was acting like a lost child?
It was quite nice to see that i really wasn't the one projecting everything onto him and being the "sick" one (he abused me physically and I still thought I was the sick one lol)
And that really he was it
Last thing I did before changing my phone number AGAIN.. Was telling everybody not to give him my phone number because he's a danger to me
And writing him a simple answer after 5 days of reading all sort of text messages
"I informed the police and told everybody what you did and what you wrote me the last months and especially the last days. Try me."
Yeah now I am fine and many very very beautiful things happend.. And many miracles.. I can't explain it but so so so many miracles happend after this..
And even tough I would have been also happy if he just left me alone the whole time.. He didn't.. Reality is.. He didn't
I could have wished how much I want.. But he would never.. Somebody who abuses.. Would NEVER have the strength of somebody who wants peace
This is why I was able (after a year of being like a zombie) to be above him
I actually never wanted to be above somebody
But when he dims his light and not only this he tries to destroy the light of others(this is where I make the difference between shadow and evil.. Diming your light is shadow..trying to destroy others light is evil).. - just because he dims his light and trys to destroy the light of others, doesn't mean that I am a bad person for shining
For sure not.. I am not the bad one for shining light..a person not wanting to shine is also not bad.. BUT SOMEBODY trying to destroy light
Hell f**ck off
If you find yourself by actually focusing on your healing and longterm happiness and caring for others AND for yourself(and first yourself because how can you fill a cup without water in your own)
And this leads to people hating you.. Or trying to convince you that you are the bad guy.. And people hating your because they realize that they can't do their abusive non growing or not self improving behavior anymore.. Before giving in
Before thinking that you might have been unhealthy..
Ask yourself
How can you be the bad guy for making healthy choices.. Isn't it more of a bad behavior to wish that someone gives in into unhealthy behaviors for your own egotistical comfort?
I was surprised how some people started acting out once they couldnt suppress me
The funny thing is I never wanted to suppress them..in fact I wanted them to also feel good
But yeah luckily I have many friends and people around me who felt happy for me feeling happy and those are and always were the most important people in my life
Lol whoever reads this should win an Oscar
You just described my brother, stepdad, mother, and sister. You also described my graduate school experience among the teaching assistants and the department chair. I ended up in the hospital with a mental breakdown. This happened while dealing with my son’s father. I felt like I was really crazy.!To this day, I am affected by all this abuse. My sense of identity is so mangled that relationships are hard for me. I tend to avoid people now waiting fir the other shoe to drop.
My therapist friended my mother on Facebook... gaslighting? Ugh!
I once worked at a job which involved many details that had to be dealt with at a fast pace. There were 6 other tight knit coworkers who constantly gaslighted me ( I was the newcomer to the group). I was dealing with a chronic illness at the time that caused brain fog and this, compounded by the gaslighting, had a very detrimental affect on my ability to do my job, being constantly confused. I eventually had to quit.
At age 60 after a year with an outstanding therapist. I now understand why i pushed my inlaws away, for the last 35 years! Tribal gaslighting, by backing up my abusive narcissistic ex husband! Thank you to my outstanding therapist & to Dr. Ramani, my saviors!!! I AM ENOUGH! YOU ARE ENOUGH!!!
I have definitely been gaslit by a group at work that is friends with two influential sociopaths. Unfortunately, sociopaths tend to be manipulative and popular. So they befriend people simply to turn them against one person who's just trying to do their job. I believe people on the spectrum are victims of being gaslit by groups like this the most. People inherently don't like or trust us because we think differently and express ourselves differently. But they trust manipulative sociopaths even though they may not be as competent or productive. Until people value competency over popular, this will always happen.
When I complained, they simply turned things around on me and told my bosses that I was the toxic person. It's insane. These people go to work to socialize and gossip all day while I am working constantly and afraid to even correct them when they do something wrong for this fear of retaliation and them going to my bosses and them believing the gaslights again. Sociopaths always win. Never work in a hospital. They value popularity over competency.
Oh my goodness, this has happened to me in a social setting where it seems the Narc had all the others in on his gaslighting, saying that nothing was wrong and that I had been imaging it all. That was when I was being subtly abused by the narc and he was being so nice to everyone else. Perhaps they didn't realize what they were doing?
This happened to me with my family. My relationship with them has never been the same.
When Dr. Ramani speaks, I LISTEN!!
👏👏🙌
And thank you Kyle for hosting such a wealth of information and for asking all the right questions.
Gaslighting is a METHODOLOGY
True
Workplace.. the in group out group dynamic.. it's horrible. Finding the one* person is so hard.. sometimes even therapists would invalidate what happened.. 🥺
Kyle’s never gonna date a narcissist 💝 thanks to all these talks with dr ramani!! Angels everywhere 👼🏽
I have been going through this very harsh reality for some time now. The help I can obtain through local services, especially in the current climate, is nowhere near enough (understandably) due to the very nature of it being group narcissism. I, in fact, am unaware of the people in the group...who they are, what they want from me, etc., making it especially tough to control or truly understand, and especially hard to heal, but I know that deep down they know what they are doing, and why, and thus the very tiniest part left of me is aware that regardless of anything that might happen, I am still loved and cherished by the people I love and cherish. All the best to all empaths suffering right now! This video has been incredibly helpful.
Can you talk about babies of Narcissistic parents and the problems that exist with them and how to solve this problem .I'm living with people that are like this and what to do about them .Please help this is serious.
As a child raised by a single mother with NPD, I can say that the book 'Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving: A Guide and Map for Recovering from Childhood Trauma' by Pete Walker really saved my life.
This was a very powerful video for me. I've recently been disowned by my sister and mother after they joined a cult. Talk about tribal gaslighting. I am holding this quote at 12:15 to my heart "this person is not in a place in their life to be able to hold my reality alongside theres - this isn’t a healthy space for me."
Thank you.
True, Matt, but for me the saying needs to say: "this person is not in this life-time able to hold my reality alongside theirs - this isn't a healthy family for me".
@@24JJ821 a very poignant distinction. And helpful. 😌 ty
OMG....I've never said or typed that before. Found it a rather banal expression.
But after watching this clip, OMG OMG OMG!! What a revelation to hear this is a thing. After a decade of estrangement i recently reconnected with my family and unknowingly became a victim to Tribal Gaslighting. It's such a dark energy. Like a rip tide, the more I resisted with calm, logical reasoning and despite citing many noble deeds, i just got dragged further and further out to sea. But if you know what you're dealing with, the way through becomes obvious. Resistance is futile.....and swim between the flags!
Tribal gaslighting happens to bisexual men about their sexuality all the time.
It happens to asexuals all the time
💜🌈💜🌈☮️ energy work is helpful to shift things, people drop away like flies
My entire immediate family, bar one my sisters are abuser enablers and gaslighters. And I honestly don't think they can ever change.
This happened to me from a religious organization I was in called Soka Gakki.So grateful for your videos to help me get out of this abusive cult.
Dr.. Ramani...these videos should be shown in highschool and college...even at work places....they are tremendously helpful and beneficial! Thanks!
oh, I can't tell you how spot on this is. Thank you for validating this, and meeting those of us that need to be met here, in this place most frequented alone.
Wow! This was explained beautifully. I love how you explained validation, and the job of a therapist.
I love this. My friends and I talked about invalidating someone's feelings just days ago. I'm glad we were right.
#FreeBritney!! The Spears family dynamic is a great example of Tribal Gaslighting.
love the explanation on gaslighting, thank you dr Ramani for your insight
Ugh! I thought it was me! I keep my circles small because of groups and tribal gaslighting. My small tribe and I unconditionally love one another and we consciously make an effort not to hurt one another. Like, for instance, if one of us is wrong. We will say, oh shoot I did do that and I see my error. I’m sorry, I love you. Etc. hugs kisses. Learn and move on to keep each other safe.
Own YOUR TRUTH 🌐🌐🌐
One of the ways Narcissists tries to "secure" their gaslighting is they will treat everyone around you in a respectful way, but reserve their "demented" behavior for you!
That is so true!!!
This was such a brilliant session between you two love the dynamics The two of your styles bring to the table to take the subjects deeper❤️❤️
When somebody is abusive though, yet hypersensitive, that person may be overreacting. Such as, if they're upset and they're screaming at you, shouting, swearing, calling you names, pinning the problem on you and essential deflecting any responsibility of what hurt them (whether real or perceived) onto you, for the person on the receiving end it can be hard to try to calm the person down who is gaslighting them, when the person who is gaslighting you thinks their the victim. For me, I grew up with an abusive parent who often did this. Where, yes she was oversensitive and her reality is still valid, but the way she reacted was over the top and most of the time uncalled for. She had severe anger issues and so many dinner sets got smashed. How do you deal with someone who is overreacting, but is also the gaslighter AND believes they're the victim when abusing you?
They sound like the classic ‘borderline personality’ disorder. She has videos for that too.
Um, GREAT Question! Thank you for taking the time to articulate those circumstances in such a relatable way. It sounds like you're still "you" through some tough + maddening mind/mental manipulation tactics. Resistance can be a real 'B' when the aggressor refuses to stop fighting for a submission. I've wanted to give up just to stop the crazy making & in a lot of ways I'm sure I have given up. I'm still stuck here without the peace of mind to remedy a plausible seperarion. I'm dependant for many complicated reasons -and he knows it + facilitates, and adds to it. What a hopeless feeling.
Sorry. My whole point was that I appreciated your question! All the Best to You!
This is sadly what my mother has done to me and all my other immediate family members have done this to me. It’s horrible!
Me too... horrible! Sad!
Kyle is an outstanding host
his listening skills will come through some day.
Thank you for confirming all of my doubts i have in my relationship I'm currently in. I need to get out of this relationship ASAP! This information has been very helpful!
I really thank you guys! I am already spreading the word and I don't care what anyone says. Leatning about narcissistic abuse has saved my life. You guys have helped me to do it. So I thank you from the bottom of my heart! God bless you both!
20:22 "That's what i mean by gaslighting by a therapist."
That happened to me. It's so uncomfortable. So I stepped away from such therapists.
Once again, a profoundly insightful session. Kyle, hats off to you for being such an empath and asking the most thoughtful questions !
I really enjoyed this exchange. It was like a parting of the clouds for me. I will rewatch it over the unfolding weeks to allow it's clarity to help reaffirm my right to my own feelings/ and POV on a situation.
Managing expectations and understanding apriori beliefs and standards is important when considering weather you are being gaslit or having different standards and expectations.
Oh wow! Thank you! Exactly my reality. Gaslit by an organization and more. I hate that I don't understand why me? I'm no one for so many to focus on negatively but it's happened and is still happening. I feel trapped and isolated. It's hard to believe anyone is on my side cause that may be a gaslight too! I try to stay to myself because I can't leave here. They rely on that fact. Thank you 🌛♥️
Outstanding! Dr. Romani you once again clarified a deep gaslighting experience. It was very , very painful. The narc did a brilliant job of undermining me and my tribe. I was profoundly deminished and the narc walked away with a smile.
That one person, that validated her experience in the movie, for me, that was Medcircle & Dr. Ramani’s videos. Thank you so much!!! You have literally saved my life. The angels from God that I needed when I was not FULLY getting the help I needed (just this last year). Now I am finally starting to heal. 🙏🥰
note to self, 12:18, so good
I love listening to these topics, for they are so insightful ! Dr. Ramani provides great examples of gaslighting and it's negative effects. GASLIGHTING can happen with roommates, landlords, family, an employment situation, with so called friends or in other interpersonal situations !
When this is combined with gang stalking, it can brutal for the victim ! I would agree with this video, and that is to keep speaking FACT and TRUTH !
I experienced both... and institutional betrayal... I feel so isolated and not believed. ..