The earlier versions of Hello Neighbor were genuinely scary, but then as it kept getting developed... It kept getting more and more broken and lost the scary part :/
Even as a kid I despised Alpha 2 of Hello Neighbor. To me that's when it all began to go down the drain. You know I remember there was a basement level completely made in alpha 2, but you could only access it via noclip. And now that I look back at it... do you think thw devs purposely left that unused so people could noclip, find it, and then it'd drum up some more mystery (or at least more videos) about it?
@@bigman1163 Bro this was debunked literally weeks after people theorized it was the basement The big wide black box wasn't the basement it was the weird tutorial thingy Remember the weird black void you sometimes spawned in where Neighbor was counting as you had to hide? this is what the big black box was Alpha 2 wasn't the downfall yet they just designed that weird hide and seek part badly with a huge box
@@bigman1163 I went back to one of youtuber's footage and when he played the game it was in the version where there was already a cutscene of you driving in the neighborhood and the neighbor was looking at you through the windows with binoculars and there was already a blue house with the 2 stories that had a shark in it and a casket in the first floor
Matpat is honestly savage sometimes haha. I dont enjoy the theory channels at all really but ive enjoyed watching gtlive in the past, he’s a cool guy to listen to discuss things
@@darcieclements4880 I mean I never really said he was one, but also I dont think he’s a terrible one either. Treats his staff well, is open minded, overall nice but able to be stern about things when needed. Theres way worse role models when it comes to youtubers lol
I like the idea that Mark and Matpat are Multiversal constants Edit: We Gather Here Today To Mourn The Loss Of The Constant Of MatPat That Resides In Our Universe. The Original The One To Start It All. You Could Say, MatPat Prime, Origin Matpat. Although He Is Leaving, But Never Forgotten. (He's Not Dead, But He Is Retiring.) But Perhaps This Is The Correct Timeline, Perhaps We Are In The Correct Universe. But Hey, That's Just A Theory.
I love the guy, he’s my childhood but the amount of kiddy stuff like Garten of Ban Ban (that how you spell it?) has made me not want those videos to exist. Love him, love his work, will always love it as I’ve seen him grow but the weird kiddy horror is where I draw the line. Never will I watch something I don’t find interesting and his videos like that are just so off putting. Hate the way a lot of indie horror games are made now- it’s all for scaring the kids so it’s just not that amazing.
Pastra actually made a great video diving into the failure of this game. I think the biggest issue was that Hello Neighbor advertised itself (at least initially) with an advanced AI that would constantly learn from your mistakes and punish you more and more for every failure. Not to mention it was initially a lot more intimate and claustrophobic, which made the tension really good. It was honestly really interesting. However, for whatever reason, they decided to abandon their identity to chase the Mascot Horror craze with “oh, there’s a big mystery and there’s lore behind everything! MatPat, you should really play our game!” Fine and all, but then they made it so surreal and convoluted that the original concept and basic refinement was just completely abandoned in favor of chasing a craze. If you can’t nail the gameplay and atmosphere, no one is going to care about your lore… Combine that with them having the gall to release a bajillion sequels, none of which they deserved, and it’s just a marvel how they didn’t learn ANYTHING from the first game. And the absolute worst part? We never got to see that adaptive AI we were promised…just a bloated mess of lost potential.
Yes. As Mark said this sentiment is nothing new. Why it blew up just because he said it is weird. But Pastra's breakdown of it is perfect. They made it so needlessly complicated in an effort to cater to a certain CZcams community but the problem is they were as smart about it as their AI. This is why I don't care for Poppy Playtime. At first I liked it but I saw that they were doing the same thing as the HN dev team they just knew how to do it better.
@@LadyBern Speaking of complicated, it says something when Scorn, a game that is completely alien in its nature and setting, has more competent puzzles than a game involving humans. Like seriously, why do you have to jump through hoops, times of day, and weather just to figure out how to get through a damn door…
@@halimahh5h268 I have enjoyed their animations but the merch push, the nfts, the extra lore tapes, the lore hinting teasers, the CZcams celebrity cameos. I can see how calculated this all is to make the most money from both gamers and those who just watch. Don't get me wrong it's smart and it's working, but it's like seeing the tricks they use at carnival games like some of the darts are dull so you can't pop the under inflated balloon, knowing it I can't enjoy the fun of the game I can only see the trick.
And also I think there are reasons why no game has adaptive programming, in this case, just thinking slightly about it, the game would become absurdly unfair the worst you are at the game... the best way to beat it would be erasing your save file (which would be GIGANTIC if it's learning from your data with every movement) and just play every attempt in a new game. It is just a bad idea... if you want to play against something that adapts, play competitive against other players. Like, don't tell me an adaptive machine wont find glitches and used them against the player. Just imagine how many players would be unable to finish it, specially if the machine learns that softlocking or hardlocking a game prevents the player from winning.
I remember when that third update came out and Jacksepticeye went on like a 5 minute rant about how disappointing it after completing it, that's when I knew the game was completely cooked
Hello Neighbor came out at like the PEAK of people really giving a shit what CZcamsrs were playing. I'm not saying that still isn't a thing, but a couple years ago with like FNAF, Undertale, Binding of Issac, Bendy, and Hello Neighbor it was like the Gold Rush of Indie games, it was like the cryptocurrency for making an independent game and having it explode into a merchandising monolith. Now, it feels like that just isn't the same world we live in, those old games have, for the most part, come and gone (FNAF somehow survived its like the granddaddy of them all), and we aren't as easily enamored by 'oooh shiny, Mark or Sean are playing it!'.
I mean, Undertale still has Deltarune. Although that's gonna come out 2088 at the rate it's going right now XD But hey, not that I blame Toby, he has been working with big companies lately.
People now a days care more about back seating than what CZcamsrs are playing, they're not really looking for entertainment they are looking to shit on people that do blind let plays for not playing professionally, as if that was even a thing. I get that from diving 5 secs into Mark's comment section. Inscryption is a good exemple. Mark should disable that comment section. The people screaming and having heart attacks over how he is playing the damn game should be banned period.
I don't think that's it at all. Among Us blew up in the same way and that's about 5 years after those big swings. I've seen videos that are post-mortems on Hello Neighbour. They had a product that everyone wanted. Much as Mark said later updates show they began building in an unwanted direction. The video suggested they decided to try to be like Freddy with the mystery iceberg. And what they ended up being was Lost. As to the player engagement issue that's just chasing clout. New games come up and most CZcamsrs just want to be current. There is a limited window before everybody has had a go at something and people lose interest.
@@tealishpotato Luckily I never did for Hello neighbor. It honestly seemed like a lackluster "game" when I first watched Mark play it. never went back to it.
i remember when the game came out for the first time,if i remember correctly the main mechanic was that the naihbor actually learns from you and sets things up to stop you,so you cant just do the same route every time requiring you to get more and more creative...then they ditched it to try and be the next fnaf,never seen a game diliver and take away such a potentially amazing mechanic if they just stook with it and not focus on the lore aspect too damn much
They saw FNAFs successes and tried to bank off of it, not realizing they already had their own gold mine in the works since they bailed for something that was already filled to the brim with devs thinking the same thing, many of whom never charged the audience a cent on top of things.
@@warrust like early early hello i think they did have them, and then they got rid of them, then re added them with the whole he puts bear traps and cameras where ever he catches you and it just piled up and got insufferable to play so they removed it again
Which is funny because Mark says he doesn't understand why people hate the game when it was the devs who made a fit because people thought the game was sarcasm and blocked people instead of rolling with it
@@danmakes2497But that's on devs, not the game. Hello Neighbor was unplayable at times but Garten of BanBan wasn't. Both devs are unlikable but one at least made something that could be classified as a game.
@@alishakay Agreed, Garten of BanBan you could play the game from beginning to end with few glitches. It was clunky, unpolished, and crude, but it was still a complete game. Hello Neighbor is not.
@@derekrequiem4359welll duh garten of banban is made every 2 months and is a super basic game with 1 actual original mechanic (the drone even tho it would probably be very easy to code) and all the assets are unoriginal.
The one thing Garten of ban ban primarily gets hate for is that the devs were trying to call out or insult people for refunding their game when they didn't like it, acting as if refunding is a big taboo. I can understand that people wouldn't cut the devs slack when they behave high and mighty.
As far as I can tell, that's not what they were upset about. People were speedrunning the game to try and finish it, then refunding it, showing the devs the refund receipt on Twitter. Refunding the game because you played and didn't enjoy it is one thing, but going into the game knowing you're not going to like it and then refunding it to make fun of the game and the devs is kind of a dick move.
The reason why i think the game was much more popular before the update was because it had a lot more mystery around what they where going to add and that how it felt like there was so much more to come,as they pretty mich say in this segment of the podcast, but its unlucky the developers werent able to carry through with the story telling. Couldve gotten some great series out of it.
Probably not bad luck, as Matpat and many others have pointed out, it is highly likely that they just rewrote the script several times over because they were unwilling to let the audience guess the story/lore correctly. Rather than applaud everyone for their efforts they treated it like a DM who believes they "win" by "defeating" everyone else 🤔
I mean, it doesn't help that with every update they kept increasing the scale/scope of the house from "Kinda big, kinda mazelike house with some odd things in and around it" to "10 story catastrophe of a house that has trains, trees, and nonsensical structures jutting out on all sides, plonked right in the middle of suburbia where most people's houses don't have more than 2 floors." Honestly that kinda sums up what the dev philosophy looked like from the outside. "Keep tacking on more stuff, keep building upward and outward, don't bother shoring up the foundation, that little one we started with will surely hold all this."
No. It was good because the neighbour was the main focus of the early iterations. It was good because the neighbour and his ai were genuinely terrifying and challenging.
it was more than just the start, people loved it for years because it was so mysterious and there were cool easter eggs in the game that could tell you stuff about the ending, but when the ending game it just sucked.
@@derekrequiem4359atleast alpha 3 had some great ambiance noise and the beginning cutscene was nice and I liked how the game was always at night although inside the house it was horrible but if they made the lighting better or atleast made your flash light better at lighting and added a few switches in rooms to turn the lights on it could have been Nice
It wasn't just the mystery that never got a payoff. Another draw Hello Neighbor had was the Neighbor's AI, which was supposed to get smarter and learn the more it caught the player. That got toned down to the point where it was barely there, and the house getting more and more crazy with each update just caused the AI to get more and more confused and unable to even properly chase the player. There were some things they did right, but it was almost all presentation and buildup, when it came to actually dilivering, they fucked it.
Not just the lore and the AI (even though the AI was its main selling point). Just like you said, the house got more and more bizarre, making the puzzles more convoluted that players would just resort to box stacking. But cuz the game has such a "wow we're so wacky!" style, boxes and its physics would just screw everything over.
That was a reference to a different bit with wade (?) not knowing what universe he’s in, implying that MatPat is somehow the royal monarch of the United States of America or something.
Someone needs to make an actual game where AI learns on your actions and mistakes to beat you, bcause it was such a good concept in the first 2 alphas but then it became a feature in the rest of the versions
@@vinnie4609 For example if you frequently hide in the lockers the alien will hang around them and check them more. Also If you use the flamethrower on it enough, it wont always bolt into a vent, and instead follow at a distance and even try to bluff you.
First time I played through Alien Isolation, the alien would pretend to give up searching for me, climb into a ceiling vent and then drop down into the hallway again a few moments later to try to catch me off guard.
Hello neighbour reminds me of yandere simulation, where the creator of try milking game for years of development. People put money into to it, and many donations to progress the game, and then some guy got fed up with it , and completed finishing a yandere simulator with a month or something like that. Much quicker, by himself, and better than the original game, and that's when the community realized they had been played. Yandere Dev went on to complete the game once he realized the jig was up
@@sonic8005 It's still in development (and looking pretty good, might I add). OP may be referring to the game's 1980 Mode, which serves as a prequel to the main game story and is more or less a complete game.
@@mrsejanoz523Careful now. Yandere's dev is a true goblin of a human, and positive feedback fuels him to add even more useless and unrequested features.
Don't forget that the developer of Yandere simulator attacked the developer for making a much better game in a much shorter time frame. There might have been legal action taken as well, but I don't remember since I haven't given that stuff any thought in years.
It's wild. I got the game about a year ago to give it an honest try and... Lo and behold, there's actually a pretty decent game that's arguably feature complete (but if I hear "I have to write a report..." one more time...). That said, there is a clear disconnect on what needs to be done, and what YanDev actually does. For instance, the Matchmaker system is honestly pretty good, and forces the player to learn about their fellow man for a peaceful resolution; the moment it's done, though, the game has a seizure for a second as it remembers that there are A LOT of asset flips that it needs to load in at once. Then there's the coding issues (which, infamously, he's defensive over, tying into the glitch I mentioned prior.) I can't speak for YanDev *now,* but I can say with certainty that the man milked his game for what it was worth, badly hid such, then threw tantrums when called out on it years ago.
@@tealishpotato Are they even puzzles? What logic do the "puzzles" follow? I remember one of the "puzzles" being to grow a tree with music on the roof to get an apple for some bizarre reason, and there was no guidance on what you are even supposed to be doing.
Wade’s question was cut off at the end, “Do chickens have nipples?” Chickens (any many other species of birds) have a single nipple on their back that secretes oil for feather preening. I suppose you could call it an oil gland, but calling it a nipple is just funnier.
It's unfortunate that the developers kept changing the game simply to keep the players on their toes, so to speak. Instead of trying to make a cohesive experience and stick to the (maybe) original plan, they just amped it up more and more and wound up with one thing so colourfully convoluted. I still remember watching Jack & Mark first start playing it, and I remember the intrigue. What's this guy hiding? And then by the time the house became an amusement park you just feel like whatever the game might of had is definitely no more. I wonder if they had a plan or not. Honestly it kinda reminds me of how random the Star Wars sequel trilogy ended up feeling.
Garten of Banban is mainly criticized for being an obvious low effort cash grab meant to attract young children by hopping on the mascot horror trend. It’s essentially in the same vein as kids’ youtubers who crank out low effort content to get as much money as possible out of chronically-bored children. It really isn’t worth defending, regardless of how many people worked on it.
It used to be such a good game, with a unique learning system that was to my knowledge was never done before. Then they built, and built, and built.. and before you knew it, hello neighbor became the prequel to only up. They piled so much crap and complicated "puzzles" that they forgot to update the actual game
The thing with Hello Neighbor is, that they started out so well within the alpha builds, and had the community at the edges of their seats, keeping the mystery intact in a house that's essentially an endless layer cake of a maze that this (as we saw it) a crazed lunatic built, for reasons unknown to us, which motivated the player to look for answers, only to encounter more randomness as they traversed the halls of a house that feels like having stumbled upon a completely new dimension. They had it all right at the start, with the unique puzzles, interesting and creepy house design, enough mystery that just had you questioning what the whole deal with the place was, but as the community grew larger, so did the developers' thirst for fame, and they essentially drove the car down a ditch, trying to achieve a pie at the side of the road, only to accidentally drive over it in the process (Talking about the devs' Tweets that had them BEGGING for Matpat to make more theories on the game, which practically made them change the direction they were taking the game in). And now we have a game with way too much backstory to our own character, a jumbled mess of a house that the neighbor isn't even a trouble in after you get to the higher levels, and a useless motivator for the player, to get some closure after childhood trauma (?) and broken promises of mechanics that just can't fail disappointing the hoping community of the once golden game in the indie horror industry. I think if they just kept the same aesthetic they had in the alpha builds, with the same house and environment, with the same kind of linear ideology and motivator for the player (to essentially fuck around and find out) while also keeping some of the elements vague, and possibly give the neighbor more character, and not some half-assed "He lost his wife and kids so he went crazy and now he must face his demons and takes it out on the kids around the neighborhood." I think what they did, is they tried TOO hard on the mystery scale of things, and now we have a story we can't even follow as it's way too complicated and abstract, and dare I say it, boring and underwhelming. And getting into the basement is so bland, that it doesn't even feel like you've achieved anything. Plus the fact that they launched their crappy tv-shows, spinoff games, and books which no one actually cares about, just shows how little passion actually went into the game after it started taking off, and the fame got into the heads of the developers. Needless to say I'm so disappointed with the game we got vs. the game we used to have. Although unfinished, the alpha builds were the golden times of the game. I remember looking forward for the full game to be out, as I really wanted to see what would come next. But then after every update, I just noticed the ever striking decline of the hype, which eventually ended up in the game we now have to call Hello Neighbor.
The way the original selling point was the neighbour’s learning AI that would set traps based on how he caught you and it turned into this big convoluted “please think we’re smarter/more creative than we are” mess
I know Mark, Bob, and Wade probably won't read this, but at least from what I can tell, there's a number of factors at play that resulted in the internet's distaste for Garten of Banban. 1) In recent years, many have felt that popular indie horror games were either poorly made, made with low effort, got into some kind of controversy (the Poppy Playtime NFTs first come to mind, but I'm sure there are other examples) and just in general feel like they were only made with profit in mind, with the bar (and people's tolerance for this stuff) getting lower and lower, with Banban being the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak. 2) The devs of Banban from what I've heard haven't been responding to the backlash well. Admittedly I don't fully know what happened (I don't have twitter so I can't see this stuff unfold directly) so I can't say much here. I'm sure others could go more in depth on that. 3) Banban isn't the devs' first venture in gaming (far from it actually from what I can tell, they've made like 6-7 other games prior to Banban), and one of their previous works was rather controversial, being focused on a school shooting while also trying to be comedic. The YT channel 'Ben Again' made a good video on it if anyone wants to learn more about it. I'm writing this just after getting out of bed, so I might be messing some details up, so sorry about that. But anyways hope anyone who reads this has a nice day (and on the off chance any of the Distractible crew reads this, hi!)
For the second point, it was worse because the devs were full on out blocking anyone who said that their game was sarcastic and insulting those who were until they realized HOW many people were on their twitter and knew about their game and THEN that's when they decided "oh, yeah it is sarcastic" but at that point people knew so they went back to "it's not" and continued with making the game as "intended" and even padding the game so people wouldn't return the game. Third point, it actually was only one of the devs who made THAT game; no evidence at the moment to support both of them worked on it but it seemed to be made with no I'll intent but was still pretty insensitive, regardless.
@@danmakes2497They also didn't JUST pad out the games to make them nonrefundable, but called anyone who DID refund it a bad person. Like, say what you will about the games and their quality, but you can't deny that the devs are genuine grade-A assholes.
@@thesalvager3020 Another comment said that people were speed running their game, refunding it, and then showing the devs the refund receipt to mock them.
no there wasn't lmao. stop acting like there was some kind of nuance to this. these guys got death threats just because people thought they were trying to cash in on the mascot horror trend. even if everything you said was a relevant factor, it really does not justify the level of hate they got.
3:02 people don't hate the game too much. It was more of a "It's interesting, anyways moving on" but when people said this to the devs they had a little tantrum on twitter.
Yeah unfortunately the devs showed their asses when faced with criticism and it affected people's perception of the series. I don't blame them for getting emotional over their first big project being criticized, but it was definitely an unprofessional move.
There's something about Wade saying "I used you to promote we" that I really like, reminds me of Mark when he's playing a game and doesn't bother to be coherent.
It's a huge shame because I was really, really interested in the game when the first look came out. The ai gimmick was creative and the neighbor himself was oddly pretty scary. That dream sequence where he was giant honestly stuck with me with the creepy music. I thought it was shaping up to be something really neat, but then the scare factor was replaced with frustration and the ai gimmick kind of fizzled and was unfairly difficult. Also, random side note, I like to think that the credit sequence for the first Little Nightmares was so long that Mark just decided not to play the sequel.
Problem with Garten of Banban isn't the game itself it's the guys that made it, they're pretty big ass holes. The type of guys who'll call you a bad person for refunding a game, the kind of guys who'll make a game making fun of school shootings, the type of guys who will purposefully stretch a game to over 2 hours with needlessly long segments so the player can't refund it.
I'm actually glad that Mark gives that message about criticizing a "first time" developer - because it should literally apply to _every_ type of creator. I would think this would be _common sense_ but over the years, I've seen there's a growing consensus that, "Oh they just can't handle criticism." No...I've been where these people are, trying to make a passion-project from the ground-up and having absolutely no budget and no support for it, and hoping that it gets popular enough to where those things can come _after._ And I know that - even when you have to criticize something for it's flaws, in the hopes of improving it - you have to use a _gentle touch_ when it comes to it. if you're going to dogpile hatred and vitriol onto the creator for what amounts to a _first, crude, effort,_ you're going to completely crush their spirits and drive them out. They're not going to want to pursue their passion anymore because of the reception _you gave them._ They're going to expect that that's the _only reception that they're going to get._ Heck, I was skeptical of why people were being so harsh on Garten of Ban-Ban when it _clearly wasn't finished yet._ I mean, seriously people...Give these guys a chance to make something at least, before you shove it back down their throats.
It has never been the consumers responsibility to research a developer's past projects to determine how they should critique something nor should it be. If you release an unfinished product then it's going to be judged on what's there not what it might eventually be. I also don't think vitriol towards the devs directly should ever be done but it's totally fair game not to sugarcoat the actual games shortcomings
Exact the first game WAS finished? The major problem people had was that it had a MERCH shop on the FRONT page BEFORE you even played it, and said devs were ASSHOLES when people tried to help (yes, nicely) and so that's why people figured it was a lost cause and returned to mocking said game. Not to mention, this is gonna sound harsh but it's true, if you're an inde game developer and making a game for the first time, it WILL suck. Not saying to discourage anyone from making them but if it's someone's first time, of course it won't end up great. It'll be clumsy, glitchy, or even not good but that's OKAY. Because people who make the don't have that experience and is why they get better when they keep doing it. That's why I'm a mix bagged when people say "take it easy, it's their first game"; I do agree that people shouldn't be too harsh on people's first game, but indie game developers need to practice BEFORE making their first game or accept that they WILL get some criticism with their first game.
it's a case by case basis honestly, some people only handle so much and others prefer the honest truth. Like for me I prefer people to be kind but honest about where my mistakes are in things I make. That being said, you aren't really going to get that on the internet it's one extreme or the other. And while, first time passion projects Should be approached with a critical eye to give feedback and help the creator improve. It's hard to say ban ban was a "passion project". While I don't know the creators enough, when you slap a merch button big and center on a new IP on a free game whose audience is going to be largely children. It's hard to think that your intentions are anything but quick cash grabs on a popular genre. While I won't accuse the creators of anything, this combined with some choice games they made does make me question their dev ethics. This is just how I see it.
Then you see how harsh people are on everyone else’s work, then it feels like you’re preparing something you put your heart and soul into just to throw it into a grinder where MAYBE it’ll come out the other side in one piece.
I'm really sad by the fact how good of a concept Hello Neighbor actually is, yet even after the VR game (which is made by the same people who made FNAF Help Wanted), It still manages to flop because they stick with too few aspects.
The response to implying Mark enjoyed Garten better than Hello Neighbor is fascinating to me. It kinda baffles me people would imply Hello Neighbor as better than Garten, and I genuinely want to know if they're saying that because they believe that or if it's only because Garten of Banban was involved. And for the record, I hold neither games in high regards. But I definitely wouldn't say either are better than one another.
@@saamjaza1742 I'd rather feel rage than feel numb. Hello Neighbor makes me feel numb. Maybe a little exhaustion but mostly numb so yeah, gotta agree with you here.
It also doesn't help that Hello Neighbor spent years setting up this "big mystery!" and the ending of the game once it FINALLY fully came out was "it was all a dream actually"
The issue with Hello Neighbor was that it not only catered too heavily to the FNAF crowd, but the AI was busted by the second update. The map was more condensed in the alpha version and the Neighbor's AI was designed around enclosed spaces, but as the map got bigger, the Neighbor's AI wasn't updated to work with the new map.
Was always confused by the amount of merch Hello Neighbor had between Gamestop and Walmart. Barely heard anything about it past it's trailer reveal? Sad they pushed for updates and didn't take their time to improve it.
"Yeah he's real. In this universe? He's cannon." I like to think that Matt and Mark are omnipotent beings who just serf between timelines and have to keep track of when and where they actually exist in the cannon of their universe.
What happened to Hello Neighbor? The devs got addicted to the attention and did everything they could to keep that attention instead of making a coherent game. Why else would they constantly harass MatPat with every small update they announced, BEGGING for him to make an entire episode of Game Theory about it?
Mark saying that Matpat was king put a smile on my face. Sometimes people forget that they're really good friends, but it's great to be reminded of that.
I think hello neighbor gained its initial popularity due to the indie game boom: fnaf was BIG, bendy was a hit, and so on and so on. It ended up lumped in with those, so people built expectations on that, and it didnt deliver in the same way things like the other games were able to. In the end it was just "what is in this random guys basement?", and when you compare that to the weird and wacky lore of fnaf, and the unique asthetic and mystery of Bendy at the time, it was kind of lack luster. There also wasnt a cast of characters to get intrigued by. While yes, people can be weird about the fnaf and batim characters, at least there is actually something there, the neighbor just wasnt very characterized or interesting. Like you feel bad for the dead kids, you care about boris, you want the crying child to be okay etc. Sorry that was really long lol. Just wanted to throw in my two cents.
It also didn't help that they completely missed on the concept of "less is more," adding more and more janky bits until the game was a shell of its former self
Hello Neighbor is the only game series that’s better as anything else besides as a game, I got more enjoyment and intrigue from a few lines of dialogue of an audiobook of Hello Neighbor than any of its games.
@@vanndymaywho1910yeah apparently the books are the best thing the franchise produced some people calling them amazing and I just looked the revenue from the books AND HOLY SHIT 16 MILLION DOLLARY DOOS WOW SO THATS HOW THEY CAN AFFORD TO MAKE A PREQUEL,A SEQUEL,A MULTIPLAYER DEAD BY DAYLIGHT CLONE,(with microtransactions and a Shop with a currency so I bet they also get lots of money on that) A VR GAME,A MOBILE GAME AND NOW RECENTLY A SCRAP MECHANIC/NUTS AND BOLTS GAME !
The best Bendy media is the fanworks that basically did free marketing for the game. The aesthetic is on point, but it the developers clearly had no idea how to actually make a video game with, like, gameplay in it.
Garden of BanBan got hated on because the devs were insulting people who beat their game and then refunded it Which is a totally unfair point to make and showed that they didn't care about making a game, they just wanted it to be an avenue to making money and nothing more. I believe their views have changed, but that's why the hate started.
The reason why I hate the Garten of Banban people is because they made a game where you play as a school shooter and mow down a school of kids. I could forgive this easily but the fact is not only did they not apologise for this game but they also are currently working on a sequel. Like there is wtf and there is that
Hello Neighbor was one of those games I personally never found interesting, but all the channels kept playing, so occasionally I'd watch to see how it's progressing. Sadly, just as Mark said, it got worse each time and ultimately never seemed to go anywhere As for Ban Ban, while I also personally don't care for it, publicly it was more so the final straw after all the old Bendy and Poppy Playtime controversies that eventually died down. That being said, its very basic gameplay and graphics did make it an easy target.
Hello neighbor back with its first public build was good and simple. You had a goal, the neighbor stopped you. You keep repeating the same thing, the neighbor blocks your path that way. It was wonderful cause no one else really did it. Now hello neighbor is filled with so many illogical puzzles and paths. The worst example is getting plants to grow. You would think maybe bring fertilizer or water but nope, you need a vinyl record to put on a randomly placed record player nearby.
That Garten of BanBan take is something alright. The devs when met with constructive criticism decided to get emotional and clench up, instead of learning and moving on. If it's their first game, I can understand why, that shit hurts. It doesn't excuse their behavior though.
"Met with constructive criticism," man they literally had death threats thrown their way for making a bad game. I dunno, pretty sure I'd get emotional too if people told me I'm subhuman garbage and should unalive myself for.. making a bad game.
Hello Neighbor was one of those things that started off good, but got so inconsistent, it makes Fnaf’s lore less complicated. Dynamic Pixels aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed, as they only seemed to care about being noticed, rather than care about what they were trying to create. From the weird spin-off titles, to new characters that seemed to be added just for filler, and false promises, there’s no doubt Hello Neighbor deserved a better game company than Dynamic Pixels. The sad part, is that they still don’t seem to grasp the fact that people don’t like the directions that they took, but they keep going like nothing ever happened. Regardless, Dynamic Pixels is too focused on trying to get people hooked, rather than care, which will bite them in the ass when they go out of business, which is only a matter of time.
Tbf I think Hello Neighbor became shit also because once the mystery is no longer a mystery, it’s boring / not scary. Think of every horror movie. They’re scary until the monster is revealed, then you see the monster and it’s like “oh”.
I think people were mad that BanBan was trying to sell merch before it even got popular, that combined with how rough it looks kinda sends tbe message "yeah we'll just pump out some garbage and these idiots will buy it"
Honestly the house and world should've stayed mundane, there's no point of the mystery and the elusiveness of the basement when the whole world itself is complete bonkers.
You get what you milk. That's why YOU should get Distractible merch from the store, because when you get milk next, it will taste 10% better, with Distractible merch with or on you! Don't break the bank, only spend what you can. Milk.
Remember in the early alpha stages of hello neighbor a small youtuber who made a video about it would immediently get a huge spike of views. You know the game is bad at writing their stories when they start begging MatPat to make a theory video.
I LOVE Hello Neighbor. I grew up on it and I know the game sucks but I loved it when it came out. It was simple, had a mild horror aspect, and was overall fun. You might all hate it, but I like it.
Hello Neighbor, when it's first iteration came out, had an antagonist that learned the players patterns with every attempt to get into the house, if they had just built upon that aspect alone, Hello Neighbor could have been a fun "brick wall" to bash against
the game had so many cool things and cool lore and there was a golden apple and a minigame where there was like a shadowed giant and some supermarket and just so much crazy stuff but they decided to... just destroy it
I'll never forget how the game (final release of first game) was so unstable that my little sister skipped the escape the basement section and the section where you get evicted and it just cut to the first nighttime section
The multiplayer versus game looks like a fun game Never played it, but it was pretty entertaining to watch since the coolest thing about the game is just the strange architecture of the house
Funny thing is, yes Garten of BanBan most likely jumped on the hype train to make money (which is a problem with mascot horror as a whole tbh) but the games have been getting better production wise. Like the last chapter was fucking insane but it was entertaining. If nothing else I’m invested I gotta see how this crazy train ends.
My personal main issue with Hello Neighbor was that the completed game removed basically everything that was cool and unique about the first renditions. I was little when it was first coming out, and I wasn't a big fan of horror at all, but I really liked the idea of the AI learning from your attempts at breaking in and changing things based on your actions, causing the house to get bigger and more elaborate over time. That was a concept I grew really fond of. But by the full release the developers for some reason completely scrapped that, everything that made it original and was gone. It was just another boring "puzzle" game that was just stale and unoriginal. I love puzzle games, don't get me wrong, but it just wasn't good at it. I think once they scrapped the idea of the constantly learning AI and gave you the huge house at the very beginning of the game it just lost all integrity
I feel like people like Matpat or even Captainsauce were onto the plot and putting the pieces together correctly, and instead of giving them the originally planned ending that may have been predicted by some, they just kept trying to adding more and more as they went until the story was fubar.
I really liked the concept behind hello neighbor when it first appeared, which was that the enemy AI learns how you play and then combats that. Then very quickly that entire selling point just went out the window in favor of the bizzare house and all the crazy lore.
One of the major problems with Hello Neighbour that most folks don't realize is that even had they stuck to their original vision, it very likely would've failed anyways. The whole selling point of the Neighbour's intelligent AI was very cool, but NPC AI is also _notoriously_ difficult to program. There's a very good reason why janky enemy AI is almost ALWAYS a huge problem in any unpolished AAA game. For a relatively inexperienced dev team, making the Neighbour's AI the consistent and immersive threat it needed to be was just unfeasible. This is why in later builds we see them begin to lean further and further away from the Neighbour and his AI. The only way they could've achieved their vision is if they capitalized on the funding received from initial interest to hire a seasoned AI specialist. But specialists like that are pricey, and it likely wouldn't have occurred to them until too late.
fun fact - Hello Neighbor is also the name of a nonprofit i used to work for. they fired several employees (including myself) because we wanted to start a union. they mistreated me so much and i still haven’t found a job since so whenever i hear people talking abt the game i get even more of a headache knowing its the same name as that company lol
I don't think people were as opposed to the merch of BanBan as they were oppposed to the idea that the game was made purely to make merch. A lot of people didn't think this boded well for the game's future, and first game definitely sucked ass. The main stink though, was that the cash-grab aspect was essentially the main reason so many people hate mascot horror. A lot of people wanted to see more mascot horror that was developed passionately, and BanBan was the antithesis of that.
Hello neighbor was an attention grabbing game The whole fun of it was the level design, the mystery, the atmosphere and art style of those levels are stuff you don't see in many games Long story short it was unique for it's time
Learning more of Mark’s experiences and principles is like software updating my brain, this man has been a part of my moral compass from a very young age.
The concept of Hello Neighbor wasn't bad. The mystery of the basement wasn't even what pulled people in, it was that you tried to break into a house and every time you got caught, the opponent would add strategies. If you climbed through a window it would be barred or trapped, if you tried an aerial approach, he would build something to rebuff you. But instead of working on that system, they tried to add more and more convoluted nonsense.
I love hello neighbor. Me and my brothers whole childhood revolved around the franchise and I will never forget panicking every time the chase music played. So no matter what state the game is in, I always have and probably will have fun playing it and have a special place in my heart for the game.
The only really good thing about retail Hello Neighbor is that it has mod support, which means people have been trying to bring back the old art style and scariness of the alphas into the final game which some mods have actually done pretty well
I've seen it in shops on the shelves, and I don't know why anyone would buy it. I loved watching people play Hello Neighbour, so when it lost its heart, they lost their desire to play too, and that's when it sank. The developers didn't care about... anything, really? It just felt like it lacked passion, I don't know.
The earlier versions of Hello Neighbor were genuinely scary, but then as it kept getting developed... It kept getting more and more broken and lost the scary part :/
Yeah really. It’s hard to be scared when the game fucks you over constantly with how broken it is. It just made me angry after a while,
Even as a kid I despised Alpha 2 of Hello Neighbor. To me that's when it all began to go down the drain.
You know I remember there was a basement level completely made in alpha 2, but you could only access it via noclip. And now that I look back at it... do you think thw devs purposely left that unused so people could noclip, find it, and then it'd drum up some more mystery (or at least more videos) about it?
@@bigman1163 Bro this was debunked literally weeks after people theorized it was the basement
The big wide black box wasn't the basement it was the weird tutorial thingy
Remember the weird black void you sometimes spawned in where Neighbor was counting as you had to hide? this is what the big black box was
Alpha 2 wasn't the downfall yet
they just designed that weird hide and seek part badly with a huge box
@@Crayveee what? No that was Alpha 1, Alpha 2 is the small blue house with only 2 stories. You're thinking of Alpha 1 I'm pretty sure
@@bigman1163 I went back to one of youtuber's footage and when he played the game it was in the version where there was already a cutscene of you driving in the neighborhood and the neighbor was looking at you through the windows with binoculars and there was already a blue house with the 2 stories that had a shark in it and a casket in the first floor
"I got it, I just didn't care" is such a brutal line. I'm gonna try and use it in my day-to-day
Matpat is honestly savage sometimes haha. I dont enjoy the theory channels at all really but ive enjoyed watching gtlive in the past, he’s a cool guy to listen to discuss things
MatPat is not a roll model.
@@darcieclements4880 I mean I never really said he was one, but also I dont think he’s a terrible one either. Treats his staff well, is open minded, overall nice but able to be stern about things when needed. Theres way worse role models when it comes to youtubers lol
@@darcieclements4880 *role model
FR
I like the idea that Mark and Matpat are Multiversal constants
Edit: We Gather Here Today To Mourn The Loss Of The Constant Of MatPat That Resides In Our Universe. The Original The One To Start It All. You Could Say, MatPat Prime, Origin Matpat.
Although He Is Leaving, But Never Forgotten.
(He's Not Dead, But He Is Retiring.)
But Perhaps This Is The Correct Timeline, Perhaps We Are In The Correct Universe.
But Hey, That's Just A Theory.
Oh absolutely
Well they are
I dream about mark and matpat every night, they are
I like this idea
Sans is Matpat?!?
So glad that MatPat is real in this universe
Was starting to get worried about all the unsolved lore
He solves himself next episode.
I love the guy, he’s my childhood but the amount of kiddy stuff like Garten of Ban Ban (that how you spell it?) has made me not want those videos to exist. Love him, love his work, will always love it as I’ve seen him grow but the weird kiddy horror is where I draw the line.
Never will I watch something I don’t find interesting and his videos like that are just so off putting. Hate the way a lot of indie horror games are made now- it’s all for scaring the kids so it’s just not that amazing.
@@D44RK_Iced_Yogs Garten like Kindergarten.
@@loki4807ah yes, thank you kind stranger.
@@D44RK_Iced_Yogs Are we strangers?How do I know aren't one of my son's descendants?
The fact that Mark so casually added "Who, Mattpat? Yeah, in THIS UNIVERSE, he's king." XD
Its oddly ominous😭like why would he be the king in this universe?mark, do you know something we don't?-
@@stacyaaa9471 well look, Mark is the king of FNAF, remember? He told us.
I honestly thought he said "yeah in this universe he's canon"
@PratzStrike he's also king of the squirrels
Pretty sure it’s a call back to earlier in the episode when mark was making a joke and ended it with “In this universe”
Pastra actually made a great video diving into the failure of this game.
I think the biggest issue was that Hello Neighbor advertised itself (at least initially) with an advanced AI that would constantly learn from your mistakes and punish you more and more for every failure. Not to mention it was initially a lot more intimate and claustrophobic, which made the tension really good. It was honestly really interesting.
However, for whatever reason, they decided to abandon their identity to chase the Mascot Horror craze with “oh, there’s a big mystery and there’s lore behind everything! MatPat, you should really play our game!” Fine and all, but then they made it so surreal and convoluted that the original concept and basic refinement was just completely abandoned in favor of chasing a craze. If you can’t nail the gameplay and atmosphere, no one is going to care about your lore… Combine that with them having the gall to release a bajillion sequels, none of which they deserved, and it’s just a marvel how they didn’t learn ANYTHING from the first game.
And the absolute worst part? We never got to see that adaptive AI we were promised…just a bloated mess of lost potential.
Yes. As Mark said this sentiment is nothing new. Why it blew up just because he said it is weird. But Pastra's breakdown of it is perfect.
They made it so needlessly complicated in an effort to cater to a certain CZcams community but the problem is they were as smart about it as their AI.
This is why I don't care for Poppy Playtime. At first I liked it but I saw that they were doing the same thing as the HN dev team they just knew how to do it better.
@@LadyBern Speaking of complicated, it says something when Scorn, a game that is completely alien in its nature and setting, has more competent puzzles than a game involving humans. Like seriously, why do you have to jump through hoops, times of day, and weather just to figure out how to get through a damn door…
@@LadyBern i still liked poppy playtime for the simple reason is that the creators are my favorite minecraft animation channels
@@halimahh5h268 I have enjoyed their animations but the merch push, the nfts, the extra lore tapes, the lore hinting teasers, the CZcams celebrity cameos. I can see how calculated this all is to make the most money from both gamers and those who just watch. Don't get me wrong it's smart and it's working, but it's like seeing the tricks they use at carnival games like some of the darts are dull so you can't pop the under inflated balloon, knowing it I can't enjoy the fun of the game I can only see the trick.
And also I think there are reasons why no game has adaptive programming, in this case, just thinking slightly about it, the game would become absurdly unfair the worst you are at the game... the best way to beat it would be erasing your save file (which would be GIGANTIC if it's learning from your data with every movement) and just play every attempt in a new game.
It is just a bad idea... if you want to play against something that adapts, play competitive against other players. Like, don't tell me an adaptive machine wont find glitches and used them against the player. Just imagine how many players would be unable to finish it, specially if the machine learns that softlocking or hardlocking a game prevents the player from winning.
I remember when that third update came out and Jacksepticeye went on like a 5 minute rant about how disappointing it after completing it, that's when I knew the game was completely cooked
He’s a boy he can’t be a hoe.
@@bendyboy7179what?
I feel like rant is a bit of an overstatement tbh.
Hello Neighbor came out at like the PEAK of people really giving a shit what CZcamsrs were playing. I'm not saying that still isn't a thing, but a couple years ago with like FNAF, Undertale, Binding of Issac, Bendy, and Hello Neighbor it was like the Gold Rush of Indie games, it was like the cryptocurrency for making an independent game and having it explode into a merchandising monolith. Now, it feels like that just isn't the same world we live in, those old games have, for the most part, come and gone (FNAF somehow survived its like the granddaddy of them all), and we aren't as easily enamored by 'oooh shiny, Mark or Sean are playing it!'.
I mean, Undertale still has Deltarune. Although that's gonna come out 2088 at the rate it's going right now XD
But hey, not that I blame Toby, he has been working with big companies lately.
That… and also the fact HN is just bad
People now a days care more about back seating than what CZcamsrs are playing, they're not really looking for entertainment they are looking to shit on people that do blind let plays for not playing professionally, as if that was even a thing. I get that from diving 5 secs into Mark's comment section. Inscryption is a good exemple. Mark should disable that comment section. The people screaming and having heart attacks over how he is playing the damn game should be banned period.
I don't think that's it at all. Among Us blew up in the same way and that's about 5 years after those big swings.
I've seen videos that are post-mortems on Hello Neighbour.
They had a product that everyone wanted. Much as Mark said later updates show they began building in an unwanted direction.
The video suggested they decided to try to be like Freddy with the mystery iceberg. And what they ended up being was Lost.
As to the player engagement issue that's just chasing clout. New games come up and most CZcamsrs just want to be current.
There is a limited window before everybody has had a go at something and people lose interest.
@@tealishpotato Luckily I never did for Hello neighbor. It honestly seemed like a lackluster "game" when I first watched Mark play it. never went back to it.
i remember when the game came out for the first time,if i remember correctly the main mechanic was that the naihbor actually learns from you and sets things up to stop you,so you cant just do the same route every time requiring you to get more and more creative...then they ditched it to try and be the next fnaf,never seen a game diliver and take away such a potentially amazing mechanic if they just stook with it and not focus on the lore aspect too damn much
Well it had a mystery of what's in the basement too
They saw FNAFs successes and tried to bank off of it, not realizing they already had their own gold mine in the works since they bailed for something that was already filled to the brim with devs thinking the same thing, many of whom never charged the audience a cent on top of things.
wait they removed that mechanics!? I thought that was the core of the game wth.
no wonder people are shitting on it.
@@warrust like early early hello i think they did have them, and then they got rid of them, then re added them with the whole he puts bear traps and cameras where ever he catches you and it just piled up and got insufferable to play so they removed it again
I love how Mark loves a game that will one day drive Sean to insanity.
Yeah, though admittedly Sean's colorblindness isn't doing him any favors with that series...
Which is funny because Mark says he doesn't understand why people hate the game when it was the devs who made a fit because people thought the game was sarcasm and blocked people instead of rolling with it
@@danmakes2497But that's on devs, not the game. Hello Neighbor was unplayable at times but Garten of BanBan wasn't. Both devs are unlikable but one at least made something that could be classified as a game.
@@alishakay Agreed, Garten of BanBan you could play the game from beginning to end with few glitches. It was clunky, unpolished, and crude, but it was still a complete game. Hello Neighbor is not.
@@derekrequiem4359welll duh garten of banban is made every 2 months and is a super basic game with 1 actual original mechanic (the drone even tho it would probably be very easy to code) and all the assets are unoriginal.
The one thing Garten of ban ban primarily gets hate for is that the devs were trying to call out or insult people for refunding their game when they didn't like it, acting as if refunding is a big taboo. I can understand that people wouldn't cut the devs slack when they behave high and mighty.
As far as I can tell, that's not what they were upset about. People were speedrunning the game to try and finish it, then refunding it, showing the devs the refund receipt on Twitter. Refunding the game because you played and didn't enjoy it is one thing, but going into the game knowing you're not going to like it and then refunding it to make fun of the game and the devs is kind of a dick move.
@@mr.cheese8097Streamers do that shit all the time though lol
Yeah I mean if the merch doesnt make Mark hate the game surely the devs being actual assholes and babies would.
@@mr.cheese8097 If the game is that short, it's not worth any money.
@@motivatedman9730 Mark likely doesn't care, since he's done that sort of thing himself.
Good on Mark for growing from his own mistakes and easily admitting them, that’s very admirable
What mistakes? He said a game was terrible and instead of his fans thinking for themselves, they acted like a hive mind.
@@motodog242 3:11 to 3:31 he did say his past mistake
The reason why i think the game was much more popular before the update was because it had a lot more mystery around what they where going to add and that how it felt like there was so much more to come,as they pretty mich say in this segment of the podcast, but its unlucky the developers werent able to carry through with the story telling. Couldve gotten some great series out of it.
Probably not bad luck, as Matpat and many others have pointed out, it is highly likely that they just rewrote the script several times over because they were unwilling to let the audience guess the story/lore correctly. Rather than applaud everyone for their efforts they treated it like a DM who believes they "win" by "defeating" everyone else 🤔
When the mystery itself becomes a mystery
I mean, it doesn't help that with every update they kept increasing the scale/scope of the house from "Kinda big, kinda mazelike house with some odd things in and around it" to "10 story catastrophe of a house that has trains, trees, and nonsensical structures jutting out on all sides, plonked right in the middle of suburbia where most people's houses don't have more than 2 floors."
Honestly that kinda sums up what the dev philosophy looked like from the outside. "Keep tacking on more stuff, keep building upward and outward, don't bother shoring up the foundation, that little one we started with will surely hold all this."
No. It was good because the neighbour was the main focus of the early iterations. It was good because the neighbour and his ai were genuinely terrifying and challenging.
Hello Neighbor had an interesting start but it just. Didn’t hold up and fell apart.
it was more than just the start, people loved it for years because it was so mysterious and there were cool easter eggs in the game that could tell you stuff about the ending, but when the ending game it just sucked.
@@Pot828 It sucked more than just the ending, the downfall started with alpha 3 at least
@@derekrequiem4359 yeah but there still was a good story in aplha 3 and hello neighbor still had a big following back then.
@@derekrequiem4359atleast alpha 3 had some great ambiance noise and the beginning cutscene was nice and I liked how the game was always at night although inside the house it was horrible but if they made the lighting better or atleast made your flash light better at lighting and added a few switches in rooms to turn the lights on it could have been Nice
That rhymes.
It wasn't just the mystery that never got a payoff. Another draw Hello Neighbor had was the Neighbor's AI, which was supposed to get smarter and learn the more it caught the player. That got toned down to the point where it was barely there, and the house getting more and more crazy with each update just caused the AI to get more and more confused and unable to even properly chase the player.
There were some things they did right, but it was almost all presentation and buildup, when it came to actually dilivering, they fucked it.
Not just the lore and the AI (even though the AI was its main selling point). Just like you said, the house got more and more bizarre, making the puzzles more convoluted that players would just resort to box stacking. But cuz the game has such a "wow we're so wacky!" style, boxes and its physics would just screw everything over.
Mark: "MatPat can suck an egg!" (Five Nights at Freddy's Security Breach: RUIN - Part 6) 🥚
1:32 Also Mark: "MatPat is king" 👑
That was a reference to a different bit with wade (?) not knowing what universe he’s in, implying that MatPat is somehow the royal monarch of the United States of America or something.
Someone needs to make an actual game where AI learns on your actions and mistakes to beat you, bcause it was such a good concept in the first 2 alphas but then it became a feature in the rest of the versions
Alien Isolation.
The game already exists. Alien isolation came out 2014, and the game is so good
Really? I saw ppl play it but I didn't know it worked like that
@@vinnie4609 For example if you frequently hide in the lockers the alien will hang around them and check them more. Also If you use the flamethrower on it enough, it wont always bolt into a vent, and instead follow at a distance and even try to bluff you.
First time I played through Alien Isolation, the alien would pretend to give up searching for me, climb into a ceiling vent and then drop down into the hallway again a few moments later to try to catch me off guard.
Hello neighbour reminds me of yandere simulation, where the creator of try milking game for years of development. People put money into to it, and many donations to progress the game, and then some guy got fed up with it , and completed finishing a yandere simulator with a month or something like that. Much quicker, by himself, and better than the original game, and that's when the community realized they had been played. Yandere Dev went on to complete the game once he realized the jig was up
When did Yandere Simulator finally get finished?
@@sonic8005 It's still in development (and looking pretty good, might I add). OP may be referring to the game's 1980 Mode, which serves as a prequel to the main game story and is more or less a complete game.
@@mrsejanoz523Careful now. Yandere's dev is a true goblin of a human, and positive feedback fuels him to add even more useless and unrequested features.
Don't forget that the developer of Yandere simulator attacked the developer for making a much better game in a much shorter time frame. There might have been legal action taken as well, but I don't remember since I haven't given that stuff any thought in years.
It's wild.
I got the game about a year ago to give it an honest try and... Lo and behold, there's actually a pretty decent game that's arguably feature complete (but if I hear "I have to write a report..." one more time...).
That said, there is a clear disconnect on what needs to be done, and what YanDev actually does. For instance, the Matchmaker system is honestly pretty good, and forces the player to learn about their fellow man for a peaceful resolution; the moment it's done, though, the game has a seizure for a second as it remembers that there are A LOT of asset flips that it needs to load in at once. Then there's the coding issues (which, infamously, he's defensive over, tying into the glitch I mentioned prior.)
I can't speak for YanDev *now,* but I can say with certainty that the man milked his game for what it was worth, badly hid such, then threw tantrums when called out on it years ago.
Hello, Neighbor was dead when it ACTUALLY came out.
Yep, because they abandoned their incredibly strong proof of concept entirely to make a janky platformer with infuriating puzzles instead.
@@tealishpotato Are they even puzzles? What logic do the "puzzles" follow? I remember one of the "puzzles" being to grow a tree with music on the roof to get an apple for some bizarre reason, and there was no guidance on what you are even supposed to be doing.
@@fnaffoxy1987 the best part is that i dont think the apple even did anything to progress the story
Wade’s question was cut off at the end, “Do chickens have nipples?”
Chickens (any many other species of birds) have a single nipple on their back that secretes oil for feather preening. I suppose you could call it an oil gland, but calling it a nipple is just funnier.
And here I was thinking "what a dumb question, of course chickens don't have nipples, they aren't mammals!"
Thank you for educating me 😮😅
I had no clue
“Do chickens have nipples?”
Top tier Wade ending to a video Lol
"I used you to promote we"
- Wade, that one time.
1:39 damn. I didn’t know matpat could deliver such a sick burn!
i completely forgot about hello neighbour
I miss the earlier builds :(( like some of them were really cool and Intriguing and then the final product came out
It's unfortunate that the developers kept changing the game simply to keep the players on their toes, so to speak. Instead of trying to make a cohesive experience and stick to the (maybe) original plan, they just amped it up more and more and wound up with one thing so colourfully convoluted.
I still remember watching Jack & Mark first start playing it, and I remember the intrigue. What's this guy hiding? And then by the time the house became an amusement park you just feel like whatever the game might of had is definitely no more. I wonder if they had a plan or not. Honestly it kinda reminds me of how random the Star Wars sequel trilogy ended up feeling.
Garten of Banban is mainly criticized for being an obvious low effort cash grab meant to attract young children by hopping on the mascot horror trend. It’s essentially in the same vein as kids’ youtubers who crank out low effort content to get as much money as possible out of chronically-bored children. It really isn’t worth defending, regardless of how many people worked on it.
It used to be such a good game, with a unique learning system that was to my knowledge was never done before. Then they built, and built, and built.. and before you knew it, hello neighbor became the prequel to only up. They piled so much crap and complicated "puzzles" that they forgot to update the actual game
The thing with Hello Neighbor is, that they started out so well within the alpha builds, and had the community at the edges of their seats, keeping the mystery intact in a house that's essentially an endless layer cake of a maze that this (as we saw it) a crazed lunatic built, for reasons unknown to us, which motivated the player to look for answers, only to encounter more randomness as they traversed the halls of a house that feels like having stumbled upon a completely new dimension. They had it all right at the start, with the unique puzzles, interesting and creepy house design, enough mystery that just had you questioning what the whole deal with the place was, but as the community grew larger, so did the developers' thirst for fame, and they essentially drove the car down a ditch, trying to achieve a pie at the side of the road, only to accidentally drive over it in the process (Talking about the devs' Tweets that had them BEGGING for Matpat to make more theories on the game, which practically made them change the direction they were taking the game in). And now we have a game with way too much backstory to our own character, a jumbled mess of a house that the neighbor isn't even a trouble in after you get to the higher levels, and a useless motivator for the player, to get some closure after childhood trauma (?) and broken promises of mechanics that just can't fail disappointing the hoping community of the once golden game in the indie horror industry.
I think if they just kept the same aesthetic they had in the alpha builds, with the same house and environment, with the same kind of linear ideology and motivator for the player (to essentially fuck around and find out) while also keeping some of the elements vague, and possibly give the neighbor more character, and not some half-assed "He lost his wife and kids so he went crazy and now he must face his demons and takes it out on the kids around the neighborhood." I think what they did, is they tried TOO hard on the mystery scale of things, and now we have a story we can't even follow as it's way too complicated and abstract, and dare I say it, boring and underwhelming. And getting into the basement is so bland, that it doesn't even feel like you've achieved anything. Plus the fact that they launched their crappy tv-shows, spinoff games, and books which no one actually cares about, just shows how little passion actually went into the game after it started taking off, and the fame got into the heads of the developers.
Needless to say I'm so disappointed with the game we got vs. the game we used to have. Although unfinished, the alpha builds were the golden times of the game. I remember looking forward for the full game to be out, as I really wanted to see what would come next. But then after every update, I just noticed the ever striking decline of the hype, which eventually ended up in the game we now have to call Hello Neighbor.
The way the original selling point was the neighbour’s learning AI that would set traps based on how he caught you and it turned into this big convoluted “please think we’re smarter/more creative than we are” mess
I know Mark, Bob, and Wade probably won't read this, but at least from what I can tell, there's a number of factors at play that resulted in the internet's distaste for Garten of Banban.
1) In recent years, many have felt that popular indie horror games were either poorly made, made with low effort, got into some kind of controversy (the Poppy Playtime NFTs first come to mind, but I'm sure there are other examples) and just in general feel like they were only made with profit in mind, with the bar (and people's tolerance for this stuff) getting lower and lower, with Banban being the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak.
2) The devs of Banban from what I've heard haven't been responding to the backlash well. Admittedly I don't fully know what happened (I don't have twitter so I can't see this stuff unfold directly) so I can't say much here. I'm sure others could go more in depth on that.
3) Banban isn't the devs' first venture in gaming (far from it actually from what I can tell, they've made like 6-7 other games prior to Banban), and one of their previous works was rather controversial, being focused on a school shooting while also trying to be comedic. The YT channel 'Ben Again' made a good video on it if anyone wants to learn more about it.
I'm writing this just after getting out of bed, so I might be messing some details up, so sorry about that. But anyways hope anyone who reads this has a nice day (and on the off chance any of the Distractible crew reads this, hi!)
For the second point, it was worse because the devs were full on out blocking anyone who said that their game was sarcastic and insulting those who were until they realized HOW many people were on their twitter and knew about their game and THEN that's when they decided "oh, yeah it is sarcastic" but at that point people knew so they went back to "it's not" and continued with making the game as "intended" and even padding the game so people wouldn't return the game.
Third point, it actually was only one of the devs who made THAT game; no evidence at the moment to support both of them worked on it but it seemed to be made with no I'll intent but was still pretty insensitive, regardless.
@@danmakes2497They also didn't JUST pad out the games to make them nonrefundable, but called anyone who DID refund it a bad person. Like, say what you will about the games and their quality, but you can't deny that the devs are genuine grade-A assholes.
@@thesalvager3020 Another comment said that people were speed running their game, refunding it, and then showing the devs the refund receipt to mock them.
my thing with banban is just everytime the "lore" comes up it's just boring
no there wasn't lmao. stop acting like there was some kind of nuance to this. these guys got death threats just because people thought they were trying to cash in on the mascot horror trend.
even if everything you said was a relevant factor, it really does not justify the level of hate they got.
These three aged *SO* damn well over the course of 11 years.
Best trio's on the markiplier connected universe
Mark,Bob,Wade
Mark,Tyler,Ethan
edit: I forgot about ethan,Kathryn,and pam
I love how random Wade is!! He cracks me up so much somtimes with his out of the box comments!
3:02 people don't hate the game too much. It was more of a "It's interesting, anyways moving on" but when people said this to the devs they had a little tantrum on twitter.
Yeah unfortunately the devs showed their asses when faced with criticism and it affected people's perception of the series. I don't blame them for getting emotional over their first big project being criticized, but it was definitely an unprofessional move.
Well that's only half true. The devs DID throw a tantrum, but people were NOT going "it's interesting", they were tearing it to shreds day one
There's something about Wade saying "I used you to promote we" that I really like, reminds me of Mark when he's playing a game and doesn't bother to be coherent.
It's a huge shame because I was really, really interested in the game when the first look came out. The ai gimmick was creative and the neighbor himself was oddly pretty scary. That dream sequence where he was giant honestly stuck with me with the creepy music. I thought it was shaping up to be something really neat, but then the scare factor was replaced with frustration and the ai gimmick kind of fizzled and was unfairly difficult.
Also, random side note, I like to think that the credit sequence for the first Little Nightmares was so long that Mark just decided not to play the sequel.
Problem with Garten of Banban isn't the game itself it's the guys that made it, they're pretty big ass holes. The type of guys who'll call you a bad person for refunding a game, the kind of guys who'll make a game making fun of school shootings, the type of guys who will purposefully stretch a game to over 2 hours with needlessly long segments so the player can't refund it.
I'm actually glad that Mark gives that message about criticizing a "first time" developer - because it should literally apply to _every_ type of creator.
I would think this would be _common sense_ but over the years, I've seen there's a growing consensus that, "Oh they just can't handle criticism."
No...I've been where these people are, trying to make a passion-project from the ground-up and having absolutely no budget and no support for it, and hoping that it gets popular enough to where those things can come _after._
And I know that - even when you have to criticize something for it's flaws, in the hopes of improving it - you have to use a _gentle touch_ when it comes to it. if you're going to dogpile hatred and vitriol onto the creator for what amounts to a _first, crude, effort,_ you're going to completely crush their spirits and drive them out. They're not going to want to pursue their passion anymore because of the reception _you gave them._ They're going to expect that that's the _only reception that they're going to get._
Heck, I was skeptical of why people were being so harsh on Garten of Ban-Ban when it _clearly wasn't finished yet._ I mean, seriously people...Give these guys a chance to make something at least, before you shove it back down their throats.
It has never been the consumers responsibility to research a developer's past projects to determine how they should critique something nor should it be. If you release an unfinished product then it's going to be judged on what's there not what it might eventually be. I also don't think vitriol towards the devs directly should ever be done but it's totally fair game not to sugarcoat the actual games shortcomings
Exact the first game WAS finished?
The major problem people had was that it had a MERCH shop on the FRONT page BEFORE you even played it, and said devs were ASSHOLES when people tried to help (yes, nicely) and so that's why people figured it was a lost cause and returned to mocking said game.
Not to mention, this is gonna sound harsh but it's true, if you're an inde game developer and making a game for the first time, it WILL suck. Not saying to discourage anyone from making them but if it's someone's first time, of course it won't end up great. It'll be clumsy, glitchy, or even not good but that's OKAY. Because people who make the don't have that experience and is why they get better when they keep doing it.
That's why I'm a mix bagged when people say "take it easy, it's their first game"; I do agree that people shouldn't be too harsh on people's first game, but indie game developers need to practice BEFORE making their first game or accept that they WILL get some criticism with their first game.
it's a case by case basis honestly, some people only handle so much and others prefer the honest truth. Like for me I prefer people to be kind but honest about where my mistakes are in things I make.
That being said, you aren't really going to get that on the internet it's one extreme or the other. And while, first time passion projects Should be approached with a critical eye to give feedback and help the creator improve. It's hard to say ban ban was a "passion project". While I don't know the creators enough, when you slap a merch button big and center on a new IP on a free game whose audience is going to be largely children. It's hard to think that your intentions are anything but quick cash grabs on a popular genre. While I won't accuse the creators of anything, this combined with some choice games they made does make me question their dev ethics. This is just how I see it.
Then you see how harsh people are on everyone else’s work, then it feels like you’re preparing something you put your heart and soul into just to throw it into a grinder where MAYBE it’ll come out the other side in one piece.
Ban ban wasn’t their first game, it was around their 10th.
I'm really sad by the fact how good of a concept Hello Neighbor actually is, yet even after the VR game (which is made by the same people who made FNAF Help Wanted), It still manages to flop because they stick with too few aspects.
Oh that actually came out?
Hello Neighbor had a VR game???
The response to implying Mark enjoyed Garten better than Hello Neighbor is fascinating to me.
It kinda baffles me people would imply Hello Neighbor as better than Garten, and I genuinely want to know if they're saying that because they believe that or if it's only because Garten of Banban was involved.
And for the record, I hold neither games in high regards. But I definitely wouldn't say either are better than one another.
I'd rather play Garden then Hello Nighbour
I'd take Banban simply over the fact that Banban makes me feel something.
It's not a good feeling. But I feel *something.*
@@saamjaza1742 I'd rather feel rage than feel numb. Hello Neighbor makes me feel numb. Maybe a little exhaustion but mostly numb so yeah, gotta agree with you here.
Mark learning from his past mistake and actually caring about the feelings of a person shouldnt feel special, everyone should be like this
It also doesn't help that Hello Neighbor spent years setting up this "big mystery!" and the ending of the game once it FINALLY fully came out was "it was all a dream actually"
That wasn't the ending though. The ending was the protagonist helping himself overcome the guilt he felt for abandoning his friend
The issue with Hello Neighbor was that it not only catered too heavily to the FNAF crowd, but the AI was busted by the second update. The map was more condensed in the alpha version and the Neighbor's AI was designed around enclosed spaces, but as the map got bigger, the Neighbor's AI wasn't updated to work with the new map.
God I love Mark. Learning from his mistakes. What a champ
Your story talking about shitting on the one game always reminds me of the webtoon Let's Play the starting premise is the same
Was always confused by the amount of merch Hello Neighbor had between Gamestop and Walmart. Barely heard anything about it past it's trailer reveal? Sad they pushed for updates and didn't take their time to improve it.
"Yeah he's real. In this universe? He's cannon." I like to think that Matt and Mark are omnipotent beings who just serf between timelines and have to keep track of when and where they actually exist in the cannon of their universe.
This started from Markiplier trending, and ended with “do chickens have nipples?”
Truly the most normal distractible episode.
What happened to Hello Neighbor?
The devs got addicted to the attention and did everything they could to keep that attention instead of making a coherent game. Why else would they constantly harass MatPat with every small update they announced, BEGGING for him to make an entire episode of Game Theory about it?
I just love how passionate Mark got lmao
Is Markiplier talking about EVIL when he mentioned the game he shat on relentlessly?
Mark saying that Matpat was king put a smile on my face. Sometimes people forget that they're really good friends, but it's great to be reminded of that.
I think hello neighbor gained its initial popularity due to the indie game boom: fnaf was BIG, bendy was a hit, and so on and so on. It ended up lumped in with those, so people built expectations on that, and it didnt deliver in the same way things like the other games were able to.
In the end it was just "what is in this random guys basement?", and when you compare that to the weird and wacky lore of fnaf, and the unique asthetic and mystery of Bendy at the time, it was kind of lack luster. There also wasnt a cast of characters to get intrigued by. While yes, people can be weird about the fnaf and batim characters, at least there is actually something there, the neighbor just wasnt very characterized or interesting. Like you feel bad for the dead kids, you care about boris, you want the crying child to be okay etc.
Sorry that was really long lol. Just wanted to throw in my two cents.
It also didn't help that they completely missed on the concept of "less is more," adding more and more janky bits until the game was a shell of its former self
@@homerman76 yeah, its a shame honestly, i love seeing indie devs succeed.
Hello Neighbor is the only game series that’s better as anything else besides as a game, I got more enjoyment and intrigue from a few lines of dialogue of an audiobook of Hello Neighbor than any of its games.
@@vanndymaywho1910yeah apparently the books are the best thing the franchise produced some people calling them amazing and I just looked the revenue from the books AND HOLY SHIT 16 MILLION DOLLARY DOOS WOW SO THATS HOW THEY CAN AFFORD TO MAKE A PREQUEL,A SEQUEL,A MULTIPLAYER DEAD BY DAYLIGHT CLONE,(with microtransactions and a Shop with a currency so I bet they also get lots of money on that)
A VR GAME,A MOBILE GAME AND NOW RECENTLY A SCRAP MECHANIC/NUTS AND BOLTS GAME !
The best Bendy media is the fanworks that basically did free marketing for the game. The aesthetic is on point, but it the developers clearly had no idea how to actually make a video game with, like, gameplay in it.
Garden of BanBan got hated on because the devs were insulting people who beat their game and then refunded it
Which is a totally unfair point to make and showed that they didn't care about making a game, they just wanted it to be an avenue to making money and nothing more.
I believe their views have changed, but that's why the hate started.
Mark can milk anything, he even has a meme to prove it
2:15 I also feel like Gartan of Banban doesn’t take itself seriously while Hello Neighbor took itself WAY too seriously
The reason why I hate the Garten of Banban people is because they made a game where you play as a school shooter and mow down a school of kids.
I could forgive this easily but the fact is not only did they not apologise for this game but they also are currently working on a sequel.
Like there is wtf and there is that
Ryukahr has the BEST play through of Hello Neighbor. Everyone should watch him play that game. It’s absolutely hilarious
Hello Neighbor was one of those games I personally never found interesting, but all the channels kept playing, so occasionally I'd watch to see how it's progressing. Sadly, just as Mark said, it got worse each time and ultimately never seemed to go anywhere
As for Ban Ban, while I also personally don't care for it, publicly it was more so the final straw after all the old Bendy and Poppy Playtime controversies that eventually died down. That being said, its very basic gameplay and graphics did make it an easy target.
It went from unnerving and scary to straight up cartoonish levels of weird.
It was always boring
Hello neighbor back with its first public build was good and simple. You had a goal, the neighbor stopped you. You keep repeating the same thing, the neighbor blocks your path that way. It was wonderful cause no one else really did it. Now hello neighbor is filled with so many illogical puzzles and paths. The worst example is getting plants to grow. You would think maybe bring fertilizer or water but nope, you need a vinyl record to put on a randomly placed record player nearby.
Wow, years later and Mark is still thinking about Bleached Eyeballs.
That Garten of BanBan take is something alright. The devs when met with constructive criticism decided to get emotional and clench up, instead of learning and moving on. If it's their first game, I can understand why, that shit hurts. It doesn't excuse their behavior though.
Mark doesn't use Twitter so makes sense he wouldn't know and not look it up either
@@danmakes2497 I don't blame him, I wouldn't use Twitter either that shit is a cesspool.
what exactly did they do that was so inexcusable?
"Met with constructive criticism," man they literally had death threats thrown their way for making a bad game. I dunno, pretty sure I'd get emotional too if people told me I'm subhuman garbage and should unalive myself for.. making a bad game.
@@naomisoltesz9890 100% agree, everybody was a dick to them and then called them immature crybabies when they rightfully got upset over it
Hello Neighbor was one of those things that started off good, but got so inconsistent, it makes Fnaf’s lore less complicated. Dynamic Pixels aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed, as they only seemed to care about being noticed, rather than care about what they were trying to create.
From the weird spin-off titles, to new characters that seemed to be added just for filler, and false promises, there’s no doubt Hello Neighbor deserved a better game company than Dynamic Pixels.
The sad part, is that they still don’t seem to grasp the fact that people don’t like the directions that they took, but they keep going like nothing ever happened.
Regardless, Dynamic Pixels is too focused on trying to get people hooked, rather than care, which will bite them in the ass when they go out of business, which is only a matter of time.
Tbf I think Hello Neighbor became shit also because once the mystery is no longer a mystery, it’s boring / not scary. Think of every horror movie. They’re scary until the monster is revealed, then you see the monster and it’s like “oh”.
I think people were mad that BanBan was trying to sell merch before it even got popular, that combined with how rough it looks kinda sends tbe message "yeah we'll just pump out some garbage and these idiots will buy it"
Honestly the house and world should've stayed mundane, there's no point of the mystery and the elusiveness of the basement when the whole world itself is complete bonkers.
Hello Neighbor really did fall off. Such a shame, as it could’ve been as big as other Indie games like Bendy or Cuphead.
You get what you milk. That's why YOU should get Distractible merch from the store, because when you get milk next, it will taste 10% better, with Distractible merch with or on you! Don't break the bank, only spend what you can. Milk.
Oh sweet! I love me some Distractable Milk! I have it every morning with my Distracereal. Taste so good!
@@Jeddy027 "My distracereal" got me dying LOL
Remember in the early alpha stages of hello neighbor a small youtuber who made a video about it would immediently get a huge spike of views. You know the game is bad at writing their stories when they start begging MatPat to make a theory video.
i know the main point of this video is why Hello Neighbor is bad but Wade saying "I used YOU to promote WE" at 0:24 deserves more attention
“Chickens have nipples?”
Never change, Wade XD
Garten of Banban gave me very much parody vibes and if not outright parody than absolutely “in on the joke of what makes a popular indie horror game”
Mark talks about MatPat for a second
Wade makes a dumb joke saying "He's real?"
The way they ended that video and just cut off Wade was so good! Lmao
I LOVE Hello Neighbor.
I grew up on it and I know the game sucks but I loved it when it came out. It was simple, had a mild horror aspect, and was overall fun. You might all hate it, but I like it.
Which is perfectly fine. Like what you like, no matter what anyone says. Unless it's nazis. Don't love those.
So you are the target demographic of people with no brain development
Dude by the 3rd update the devs just forgot they were trying to make a smart AI
Hello Neighbor, when it's first iteration came out, had an antagonist that learned the players patterns with every attempt to get into the house, if they had just built upon that aspect alone, Hello Neighbor could have been a fun "brick wall" to bash against
Love the MatPat and Steph shoutout
the game had so many cool things and cool lore and there was a golden apple and a minigame where there was like a shadowed giant and some supermarket and just so much crazy stuff but they decided to... just destroy it
I'll never forget how the game (final release of first game) was so unstable that my little sister skipped the escape the basement section and the section where you get evicted and it just cut to the first nighttime section
The multiplayer versus game looks like a fun game
Never played it, but it was pretty entertaining to watch since the coolest thing about the game is just the strange architecture of the house
Hello neighbor was good when it was still in alpha and the game actually worked. But after that it was a Dumster fire of glitches
Funny thing is, yes Garten of BanBan most likely jumped on the hype train to make money (which is a problem with mascot horror as a whole tbh) but the games have been getting better production wise. Like the last chapter was fucking insane but it was entertaining. If nothing else I’m invested I gotta see how this crazy train ends.
My personal main issue with Hello Neighbor was that the completed game removed basically everything that was cool and unique about the first renditions. I was little when it was first coming out, and I wasn't a big fan of horror at all, but I really liked the idea of the AI learning from your attempts at breaking in and changing things based on your actions, causing the house to get bigger and more elaborate over time. That was a concept I grew really fond of. But by the full release the developers for some reason completely scrapped that, everything that made it original and was gone. It was just another boring "puzzle" game that was just stale and unoriginal. I love puzzle games, don't get me wrong, but it just wasn't good at it. I think once they scrapped the idea of the constantly learning AI and gave you the huge house at the very beginning of the game it just lost all integrity
2:48 That transition was bloody smooth
I feel like people like Matpat or even Captainsauce were onto the plot and putting the pieces together correctly, and instead of giving them the originally planned ending that may have been predicted by some, they just kept trying to adding more and more as they went until the story was fubar.
I really liked the concept behind hello neighbor when it first appeared, which was that the enemy AI learns how you play and then combats that. Then very quickly that entire selling point just went out the window in favor of the bizzare house and all the crazy lore.
One of the major problems with Hello Neighbour that most folks don't realize is that even had they stuck to their original vision, it very likely would've failed anyways.
The whole selling point of the Neighbour's intelligent AI was very cool, but NPC AI is also _notoriously_ difficult to program. There's a very good reason why janky enemy AI is almost ALWAYS a huge problem in any unpolished AAA game. For a relatively inexperienced dev team, making the Neighbour's AI the consistent and immersive threat it needed to be was just unfeasible. This is why in later builds we see them begin to lean further and further away from the Neighbour and his AI.
The only way they could've achieved their vision is if they capitalized on the funding received from initial interest to hire a seasoned AI specialist. But specialists like that are pricey, and it likely wouldn't have occurred to them until too late.
fun fact - Hello Neighbor is also the name of a nonprofit i used to work for. they fired several employees (including myself) because we wanted to start a union. they mistreated me so much and i still haven’t found a job since so whenever i hear people talking abt the game i get even more of a headache knowing its the same name as that company lol
I don't think people were as opposed to the merch of BanBan as they were oppposed to the idea that the game was made purely to make merch. A lot of people didn't think this boded well for the game's future, and first game definitely sucked ass. The main stink though, was that the cash-grab aspect was essentially the main reason so many people hate mascot horror. A lot of people wanted to see more mascot horror that was developed passionately, and BanBan was the antithesis of that.
Hello neighbor was an attention grabbing game
The whole fun of it was the level design, the mystery, the atmosphere and art style of those levels are stuff you don't see in many games
Long story short it was unique for it's time
Mark: idea man
Bob: instigator
Wade: wade.
Learning more of Mark’s experiences and principles is like software updating my brain, this man has been a part of my moral compass from a very young age.
The concept of Hello Neighbor wasn't bad. The mystery of the basement wasn't even what pulled people in, it was that you tried to break into a house and every time you got caught, the opponent would add strategies. If you climbed through a window it would be barred or trapped, if you tried an aerial approach, he would build something to rebuff you. But instead of working on that system, they tried to add more and more convoluted nonsense.
I love hello neighbor. Me and my brothers whole childhood revolved around the franchise and I will never forget panicking every time the chase music played. So no matter what state the game is in, I always have and probably will have fun playing it and have a special place in my heart for the game.
Markiplier speaks for the few rational gamers left.... thank you
The only really good thing about retail Hello Neighbor is that it has mod support, which means people have been trying to bring back the old art style and scariness of the alphas into the final game which some mods have actually done pretty well
I've seen it in shops on the shelves, and I don't know why anyone would buy it.
I loved watching people play Hello Neighbour, so when it lost its heart, they lost their desire to play too, and that's when it sank.
The developers didn't care about... anything, really? It just felt like it lacked passion, I don't know.
I think the makers of garten of banban, Euphoric Brothers, made a game where it involves a school shooting, introvert something.