Chainsaw Sharpening Angles
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
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Thank you for your service. I'm new to sharpening, self taught, your common sense guide puts my mind at ease. Thank you
You're welcome!
I hope you enjoy the journey.
I like your attitude and you're more then kind to the nose in the air back seat drivers. You keep it simple and doable and that's really important. I've had a stone grinder sitting on the self for years that I felt to intimidated to use after bringing it home. Just got it out and dusted off and was watching videos to get myself into the game. Yours is by far the best I've seen as it reflects the " it works and that's good enough for me" attitude that's got me thru decades of doing as a 'jack of all, master of none'. It's not perfect, but it got done and it works. Thanks
I sharpen hundreds of chains a year in our shop, and the only angle I ever mess with the is the top angle. Chisel I do 25, and semi chisel 30 degrees, if I matched every angle I'd never get anything done. Most guys will stuff it in the dirt after 20 minutes use, so don't stress too much.
Phew, thanks man. I've been on the corner of my seat for the CZcams backlash at my commentary. Appreciate your comment.
I thought about chain cycle time and how it takes less than a second in the dirt to destroy every tooth. Many people don't realize how destructive that is.
Always at 0 degree tilt? Seems like 10 degree tilt on all of them would get wheel under the top better. I’m new at this game
Matthew, I stumbled upon this and wish it had been available years ago. You are spot on IMO wrt all the points you make. Cutter length and being equal is absolutely an absurd waste of time. Some pontificator said it affects the vibration!!!! I spent 35+ years in NVH development and that is simply nonsense! I only sharpen my own chains. I'd starve if I had to do this for a living! And I don't like to see any more sparks than necessary to end up with a clean cut across the tip and gullet. I nudge each cutter with the tooth stop adjuster until I get a full cut across the face of the cutter. If you field dress the chain, you're gonna' end up with unequal length cutters. No big deal IMO. Thanks for taking the time to shoot this video and post it. Kind Regards
Just had my first large batch of chains come in (10) for grinding - I’ve always just filed my own. Thank you for clearing up my paralysis by analysis with all the different specs!
You bet! Glad it helped.
Probably the most useful video I've watched so far. Thank you.
I'm glad you found it helpful and thanks for leaving a nice comment.
You said you use a 1/8 wheel for everything. I thought the 1/8 wheel was for 3/8 LP and .325 chain, while the 3/16 wheel is for 3/8 (.375) chain.
Table in manual says either size wheel for 3/8. Your theme here was about how to set it for "everything" without changing up (and killing time).
Afterall, we bought these sharpeners to achieve repeatable uniform results, in a time efficient manner. Thanks for sharing!
Dude, awesome. I'm just bought this machine and you've just saved me a lot of confusion. Thanks homie.
Glad I could help!
Great job!!!!
Good concise, to the point ,
Thank
You!
Thank you, Chris!
Thanks for the well done video. I've been using a similar Tecomec grinder for many years to support my small tree care hobby. I've got about a dozen saws with many different types of chains. I'm constantly trying to find the grinding specs for them but, as you point out, that's a frustrating task. Many new chains only come with file size recommendations which don't give you the critical angles to set up the grinder. As you know, each one is a research project. But, since I'm sharpening for myself, and I'm a retired engineer, I like to get everything right.
I've recently found info that disputes one of your assumptions. Wheel thickness: There are two types of 3/8" pitch chain - 3/8" and 3/8" low profile. The latter is more common on smaller saws. Low profile 3/8" chain requires the 1/8" thick wheel but the 3/8" pitch (such as my Stihl 33RS-84 chain) requires the 3/16" wheel.
Although I admit I've measured with a caliper in the past, I find that so long as you keep the teeth on both sides close enough that they look the same length the chains cut well. If they get to the point that you can tell by looking that they are not the same the saw tends to cut in a very annoying arc.
Roger
Roger, this is a great comment, thank you.
Can you capture a rule of thumb for when to use the 1/8" wheel and when to use the 3/16" wheel?
@@capnmatt41 I don't have enough experience with larger chains to feel comfortable making a generalization. I would simply add the 3/8" to the .404 in your rule of thumb for using the 3/16" wheel.
Thanks Roger.
In my chart that came with the Super Jolly every 3/8" chain calls for either the 1/8" or the 3/16" wheel (written as 1/8"/3.2mm - 3/16"/4.7mm). So I'm probably going to stick to my existing rule of thumb where just .404 chain gets the 3/16 wheel because the 1/8" wheel is the only one I have in CBN.
I appreciate the back and forth.
Thanks for the video it was very helpful.
You bet! Glad it helped.
You just made it really simple , thank you..
Yeah man, thanks.
The angles and performance have more to do with, how hard the wood is, how fast or aggressive the cutter, and either how efficiently or fast and smooth the cut is versus longevity of the cutting edge.
Practically, your experience varies basically on wood type versus chain grind, cutter profile, saw power, cutter pattern and chain type, bar length, chain speed (bar length, sproket, and saw power together), saw tuning/performance, plus environmental factors and user parameters.
Even the manufacturers make "compromises" to box an all-around chain. They use grinders too that have tolerances +/-.
You could adjust a little for hard or soft wood, not just the cutter, but also depth gauge/raker, but it won't be as versatile.
Competitions are set under ideal condiditions to limit other factors/ variabilty. The real world has rocks, nails, wire, and other things from one stem to another.
Information very much appreciated!
I am a low budget Firewood cutter(Personal use) and have several Base model saws(i.e. off branded) I also shop around for low cost Chains. If they prove to be junk I strike the manufacturer and if they work well I will repeat purchase.
For me, if it cuts well, a chain is a chain.
Well, for the cost of 3-4 cheap chains, I purchased a Central Electric Sharpener($26.) to try and resharpen a small collection of decent chains.
*The information you provided here confirmed what I was hoping would work. i.e. 30 degree Angle and 25 Raker gap.
Thanks for the Thorough Coverage of Chain sharpening.
One thing that cannot be discerned by the eye is the metallurgy of the steel that went into making a chain. Same with any other cutting tools. When you begin to explore higher-end equipment made with higher quality steel you begin to wonder how you ever went on without it.
Glad the content helped you out!
I to cut firewood for myself, an old farmhouse that requires twice what you'd think. I've been buying Dereal Chinese saws and they have plenty of power, more then my 250 Stihl ever had and one of them is about thru it's third year with no problems. I buy cheap Chinese chains on eBay, and again, no problem. I think what they don't want us to know is it's ALL made in china anyway. China supply's a very large market, close to home and right in China. People won't support what doesn't work. Can you get better, probably, but at what cost. I'll take my Dereals any day. Last one I bought, 58cc, 16" bar, sold by Walmart online for $126 free shipping. The 62cc which I have two of were even cheaper. Don't apologize if they perform.
I think you covered all my frustrations plus one. 😅 Lmao. Thanks for the video.
Right on!
there's a big difference between a guy who sharpens tools for him self and someone who sharpens everyone's different tools. I sharpened my chain saws for so long I'll never do it any other way for me. It's not fast and it doesn't have to be. Great topic you chose here this time. Thanks for putting this up.
Have you got into using a stump vise yet? It took me way too long to add one to my woods kit.
@@capnmatt41 I'm not familiar with a stump vise. Sounds like it would of been helpful in my days gone by.
Many years were spent sharpening saw and machetes in the woods but I prefer locking the chainsaw in the post vice and giving in a good going over :)
For reference to what I'm talking about:
www.americanedgesharpening.com/product/stump-vise/
Thank you for this common sense video! You confirmed what I told a friend that just brought me 10 chains for her, the girl can handle a saw!
Very nice, you're welcome and thanks for watching!
Thanks for the helpful demonstration! Any tips for angles on rip chains?
I've always thought to do rip chains at a shallower angle, 10 degrees or so.
I got a bunch of rip chain in a while back and they were all at 20 or 30 so I'm not really sure.
Let me know what you find out.
I have come to the conclusion that the 10 degree drop with chisel chain is not desirable in hard wood. It seems to cut faster for a few cuts, but dulls quickly. With the Super Jolly, I do have to adjust the cutting "length" when switching from one side to the other; not much but just a bit. Otherwise the left side cutters would be a little shorter than the right ones.
Thank you.
You're welcome!
Thanks for showing difference in chisel and semi
You're welcome!
This isn`t nit picking when it comes to the depth gauge on each tooth. If you are cutting hardwood, it is very important to have the correct depth of cut if you want a smooth cutting chain that isn`t constantly stalling out your saw engine, or just making dust and going nowhere. You can fudge on the top plate angle a little bit, but the amount of wood a tooth is pulling has to be right for best performance and less strain on the saw.
I think you mean raker height?
I hear you. I always check them for customer chains. If the spec is 25 thou, what tolerance are you talking about?
I was fed up of re shaping wheel stone i use a dremel now and use dimond bits i get 1 50cm chain out of 1 bit only use one type of chain 91px068x b advanced cut bits are 20 for 7pounds
Awesome video, you should start a sharpening school...
I did!
Check the video description.
back in the day I used to freehand with dremel. Every angle i'm sure was different. That worked well, but I noticed they didn't stay sharp as long as doing it with one of these. My old one I was given was already set up by previous owner. Well it died and now I am trying to remember how it was set up as I no longer have it. I don't believe it is super critical. As far as the rakers go. Sharpen it and see how it cuts. Take a bit off (i just do it freehand) and try again. If you don't have enough off it wont cut as good but too much and the saw will try to cut "Too good" and what will happen is the saw wont have enough horsepower to take that much off at a time and will keep stalling in the wood or will want to kick back so be careful not to remove too much from the rakers.
Right on!
For those who have been sharpening a long time; I’m in Australia and cut tonnes of Ironbark for firewood (very hard timber). I use tungsten FC chains only and a Super Jolly. I sharpen at 25, 55 and 10 degree tilt. I usually knock the rakers down to cut more aggressively. The chips I get are always relatively fine. I know the teeth are sharp, cuts quickly. Would the finer chips be because of the timber hardness or a more aggressive angle sharpen required?
How long does one need to have been sharpening in order to offer some feedback to your question?
@@capnmatt41 any feedback is good. Probably not the best wording on my part.
Solid. I've worked with a lot of people and often the ones who consider solutions to problems from a beginner's mind come up with the best ideas.
If you want bigger chips I'd suggest experimenting with your raker height.
I trust wood hardness plays a factor as I use my mind's eye to compare cutting a pine log followed by a hickory log. The same chain will likely hog bigger chips out of the pine.
@@capnmatt41 thankyou, the question came up when someone made a comment about the chips being fine. So I questioned what I was doing. I believe it’s the hardness of the wood. I’ve taken the rakers down, any further and I find it starts grabbing to much, or I lose teeth. Fine chips or not, it cuts and cuts cleanly.
I hand file all my chains during a time of day when I’m ready to relax. Put on some tunes, let go of anxiety and then before to know it it’s time to work the other side. Stop looking at filing as a chore, stop overthinking it and enjoy.
Hand filing is great, but though I've done it for years I eventually start arcing after two or three hand filings. That's where the grinders are great, bring everything back to equal.
Can you explain how the tilt angle works, eg. do you slide the jaws out (towards you) 10* for right hand teeth?
This is a great question and I realized that I didn't cover that, so thanks for asking.
First, picture you're sharpening with a file by hand. You push toward the outside of the chain and the tilt of the file is such that you are pushing up and out.
Now, bring that mental image over to the grinding wheel so if you're doing the right hand cutters the table is pulled forward, and if you're doing left hand cutters the table is pushed back.
I know it's kinda confusing but noodle on it for a few and I think it will make sense. You can also consult the picture that comes on chainsaw boxes to see if that helps.
@@capnmatt41 Thank you!
@@capnmatt41 I was really stuck on this issue of the 10° tilt on full chisel cutter chain. I finally got on the phone with several grinder style chain sharpening companies and talked to their engineer type people. When I mentioned the subject of the 10° tilt I would get a long uncomfortable silent response, then they would respond with a confused response "I have never heard of that technique". Finally I got In touch with Stihl. When I asked about the 10° tilt to them they said that technique was no longer used in their sharpening process. They also said that they now only sharpened at 90°. I also noticed that Stihl used to show that angle on their box but I noticed the new boxes don't. I would really like to get a solid written in stone answer to the 10° tilt theory. A more in depth video on this subject would be awesome. Keep up the good job on your videos, I really enjoyed it.
I use calipers on my teeth because that level of precision helps with milling
Gotcha. Thanks for that. I'm not up on chainsaw milling.
What do you use to clean your chain before sharpening
I have a parts washer that I soak them in and brush them off in, then use compressed air to dry them.
I know some people don't wash them, but I think it keeps the mess down on my grinders and in the air when I'm sharpening.
Where did you get the pitch gage...blue plastic
www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Pitch-N-Gauge-Saw-Chain-Check-Tool-P939C212.aspx
Good info in your video thanks! The only thing I was wondering is, doesn't the 3/8" pitch chain( as well as the .404) call for the wider 3/16 grinding wheel? Thanks for your info, as I have felt the way you described at the start of the vid at times from info overload. I have to agree that it probably only matters if trying to win a cutting contest! 🙂
Read through the comments here but on the chart that came with the super jolly all the 3/8 chain have either wheel listed.
@@capnmatt41 Okay thanks for that. My Oregon 511a (had for a long time like maybe 15 yrs) has 3/16 for 3/8 and 404, then 1/8 for 325 and smaller. That Jolly looks like a good setup.
what is the 10 degree down angle for ? pros and cons to the 0 degree ?
Great question and I don't have a good answer for you.
With the 10 degree tilt, the top plate edge has a compound angle allowing the chip to roll out on an angle. Clearing the chip more efficiently.
Dumb question, is that little line on the top plate on each tooth, is that the angle to file? I hand file.
Yes, that's the angle to file at.
Some chains spec a tilt angle too, but getting that top plate angle close will get the chain cutting again.
@@capnmatt41 ok thx, that helps, I've been noticing that line and always wondered about it, when I compared my file angle to that line, I was way off. And wondered why it wasn't cutting as smooth and fast as a new chain, thank you, your videos are very helpful for us novices, probably keep us from getting hurt as well. Haa
Just wanted to let you know, this straight forward, cut the the crap, get back to work video, is why I just subscribed to your channel. I wish move videos were like this, I just want to fix stuff. Thank you
Thanks man!
Have discovered that a variance in tooth length makes little or no difference. Also doesn't seem to matter if tooth gets hit. Just saying '
Nitpickers!! It’s doesn’t need to be complicated just completed.
Not a big deal, but bc you continually reference men or say ‘he’ during your presentation -I thought I mite remind you that some of your viewers (and likely some customers) are chicks out here like me operating our chainsaws too. Hearing an occasional ‘he…or SHE’, would be refreshing.
Many thanks for your helpful tips and instructions 👍🏼👍🏼
Thanks for that, I try to be good about being inclusive and certainly don't mean any offense by it.