Video není dostupné.
Omlouváme se.
America's Cup Mainsails: Another ETNZ Loophole! + Mysterious Upper Control Zone
Vložit
- čas přidán 17. 02. 2021
- ETNZ have effectively increased their righting moment by lowering their mast and sail below the AC75 fixed mast rotation point. If one thing is for sure, Team New Zealand have understood and unpicked this America's Cup rule better than any other team.
Thanks to Weta27 for the photos.
Thanks to @SailChaser for the batwing footage. • NEW BATWING SAIL: Emir...
Thanks to Advanced Wing Systems for sharing their twin skin technology: gre69.wixsite....
#MozzySails #AmericasCup #PradaCup
Mozzy, Kai ora from Aotearoa, love your. 'show'. You and the Boyz, Rob and Tom, provide such a clear, comprehensive, technical, succinct commentary on every video, love it. Before Mozzy Sails the only thing I knew about sailing was water, boat, America Cup and, where to buy AC merchandise. Since subscribing to Mozzy Sails, I haven't watched netflix in weeks. You, and the boys, need to do commentating! You have ruined watching AC live for me, when I watch AC all I think, , what would Mozzy and the boyz be saying, keep it up. You, Rob and Tom, should do a fans Q&A, Thank you, thank you, thank you.
gotta agree, its been rad
This stuff is absolutely fascinating, particularly when articulated so well.
@@gianfalco8527 I'm afraid I have no idea what you're talking about but I think it's pretty clear I 'm referring to the video.
@@gianfalco8527 if they refer to the final cerimony where LR.. In the form of Francesco Longanesi Cattani did not invite Ineos UK to the party I found it appalling... The man is a complete shame for the sport.. And make no mistake I am Italian.. Proud to be.. But certain things are just wrong.
My personal view..
If it's something else you ment then I apologise for butting in. 🙏
When you don't have the budget of other syndicates, you have to innovate. Another classic example of out-thinking the competition. ETNZ for the win!
THat's the advantage of making your own rules for people to follow. YOu know best how to interprete them. THat boat is so dam quick, it seems so obvious why now.
@@stuartwhyman1 Tell that to Oracle #Bermuda2017 ;)
If you fire too much money at a problem the money bouncing off stops the rest of the money being fired hitting the problem.
“Rules work around” = The another teams haven’t thought of it yet = Innovation
I was about to say the same thing, their designing to the rules, how is that exploiting the rules?! A little bias creeping into otherwise great content and analysis.
No bias at all. I'd use the same language for any team. Loophole / exploitation / bending. Whatever you call it, it's part of the game. I don't really like the term 'what the rules meant' or 'spirit of the rules' but when one reads the rules there are many aspects that have clear intent. ETNZ are very skilled at working around this to find ways to make gains the rules are trying to stop, without breaking the rules.
Clearly, the rules weren't written with bat-wing sails in mind, or mast steps up on pedestals etc.
If you watch other videos we use similar language talking about the INEOS W foils which quite literally bent the flap rule.
@@davidr5597 You can see the twinkle in his eye when he talks about ETNZ's er, workarounds - it's more a case of damn those bloody Kiwis, they've done it again! Mozzy Sails is the best analysis vlog out there at this point.
@@MozzySails You’re right. I’ve trimmed a mainsail in the AC ...or, in the new language, a ‘slow boat’ AC.. Everyone involved knows that the rules are there to be exploited. If one syndicate (the AC term in my day) exploits it better than you then ‘good on ‘em’ - though, of course, your team owner may complain about it publicly to save face. That’s how it’s always been. If you want to complain, the AC isn’t for you and go watch other regattas. The AC is a brutal competition...that’s why it’s so compelling.
The reason it isn’t called innovation is because ETNZ wrote the rules with specific verbiage to allow what they wanted to do without letting the other teams know. If the rule said you were allowed sail area below the mast rotation point specifically everyone would have done it. The entire series has been a series of aha moments looking at how ETNZ interpreted their own rules, so it is quite fair to imply that it is obvious rule bending. Ainslie said as much in the early going. All is fair when you win the right to make the rules, but that doesn’t mean you can’t call it what it is.
I keep wanting to yell Starboard when I see your port tack inspired hair. Seriously though, you guys are nailing this stuff and taking a bunch of time to distill the data for those of us who want to but can't get that time. Great analysis and delivery! Thanks
Seems your getting some well deserved respect. From Stuff NZ today, their time: ”. Respected America’s Cup analysts Mozzy Sails in Britain, picked up on the Team New Zealand feature as they looked at the sail systems of the teams, saying the Kiwis had “spotted a hole in the rule and exploited it”. They felt the rival syndicates would be “kicking themselves” they hadn't come up with the idea.
Really appreciate the effort you're putting into this, definitely my regular go-to Cup viewing, and looks the same for a lot of other folks too judging by your viewing figs. Nice one.
Just wow. Your videos have added so much more to my understanding of what happens on the boats. In such a technical Cup that's pure gold. Thanks for taking the time to film and share all this.
I'm all for LRPP, but in case we will go through the Prada Cup I have the feeling that ETNZ start with a very definite performance edge...
Another great video. While it may have been a touch jarring for a second it is good to see you've got a sponsor! You deserve it with your hard work
thanks!
@@MozzySails Agree. Just keep it subtle. I think everyone watching knows that you put a lot of time/effort into making these. We’ll remember who ‘brings it to us’ whether it’s ten or 30 seconds.
I love it when someone reads rules, understands them and uses them to his advantage. Engeneering on the highest level.
Great stuff team........but how on earth is Mozzysail making these videos and holding down a full time job???
...........must be another clever rules loophole i.e. working for Hayling Island Council!!!!...
Keep up the good work.
I had been wondering about the advantage of the deck design for ETNZ. Now I know. Thanks for all these videos as it has helped me and a lot of others to understand the yachts a lot better
Thanks for making these most excellent videos. I'm new to sailing, but I come from the cycling world and I'm definitely a techno-nerd, and I'm truly fascinated and impressed with the engineering that's gone into these beautiful wind machines. Cheers!
Great to hear! I am cyclist also. There's some great parallel in drag reduction and efficiency! There cannot be two finer examples of engineering than a bike and boat.
@@MozzySails and a car 🏎💨💨
Lowered deck, endplate effect, cutaway leech, twisting mainsail to create negative righting moment, all design ideas used widely in windsurfing since 1989.
haha, Imagine a "lowered deck" board, I think that then becomes a dinghy.
Yep, another great video.
Glad you like them!
@@MozzySails Thankyou for the analysis of all the systems and so on. Makes it all more interesting understanding the voodoo science. Best on the net by far and you guys should be commentating. I can see the twin skin sail taking off in the mainstream.
Mozzy great work as usual.. 👏🏼👏🏼.. I want to tell you in Italy many people are following you now because the quality of your analysis is spot on! Thank you
Thanks guys!
Perfect insights in between races!!
"Bit Agricultural" means No.8 fencing wire & duct tape - Lord Rutherford's secret wepon too..🥝🥝🙏
A "bit agricultural" is pretty much the MO for everything done by NZer's; it's how Ed Hillary managed to knock the bugger off, how McCaw captained two world cup wins and yes, how ETNZ gets the job done.
“Bit Agricultural” could be a badge of honour in NZ.
You forgot the cable ties
@@michaelhermans4753 to tell the true I'm a septagenerian- we didn't have duct tape in my day, let alone plastic cable ties..🥝🥝🙏
The best looking hammer is not necessarily the correct hammer. My "hand carved" race cars have wiped the grin off the face of a lot of high dollar people over the years.
Love the way you translate tricky and complex concepts into accessible to all linear rudiments. Great job. Ciao FM Italy
Many thanks!
Cool to see you having benefits and be able to show ads! Keep up your work! I'm building a Modell AC 75 behind the scenes and you keep me teaching! Thanks so much!
Wow again! Really well explained impressed with the quality info thanks!
Thinking outside the box is in Kiwi DNA. Whatever the others are thinking about, we've already evaluated it and moved on.....nice hair cut.
Yes. Kiwis are the only nation who can innovate, they are so far ahead (Despite not being proven in racing at all yet...). Jesus Christ.
You wouldn't be sailing foiling monohulls if it wasn't for New Zealand.
@@artistglyn Yes, Kiwis moved "out the box" 200 years ago, to immigrate from UK to a little island on the other side of the world took all the "outside the box" DNA they could muster! It's natural selection...
@@artistglyn did they invent the moth?
@@willgeorge5644 they dispatched the convicts in Australia to improve the quality of the the gene pool
Thanks for all the great insights and for explaining it for us all to understand. Lots for the design teams to work on and lots of different ways of looking at solutions. The US team never really looked like they got to grips with all this.
Very good insight, sir. I applaud your dedication to research. I wouldn't have guessed why Team NZ has such a setup. Hopefully Ineos can make a match of the next races. I do believe it is close.
as said in a previous video comment, i am surprised to not see sail with higher negativ leech. It is a very efficient and dynamic way to control trim and overpower of the head, especially when you sail more or less at constant apparent wind angle. And it reduces the issue of inverted profil around the head sail
Best explanations of all the systems and what's going on. Please keep it up!
Best technical breakdowns o the current Americas Cup, keep up the good work mate.
Thanks for that. I also hope we get some more heli shots showing the main twist and camber. I wonder though about the helicopters. With their huge down draft I guess they have to stay well away from the boats while racing. With a normal boat you could just stay down wind of them, but with these things going multiples of the true wind speed, they can easily catch up with the heli down draft. PROTEST! OUTSIDE ASSISTANCE!
In one of the races the heli was hovering over the windward mark and as Luna Rossa approached we could hear Jimmy Spithill demanding that the heli move over the radio, and they did! So it can definitely negatively impact the racing.
Awesome videos. Keep up the good work. My step farther worker on the 92 and 95 NZ campaigns as well as later US campaigns so I've always found the AC really interesting from a technical stand point.
Negative leach? How do you mean?
Hi Mozzy sails! Congratulations on the win today. Great fighting spirit. They called on the spirit of the great Winston Churchill.
Excellent Analysis! A very well thought out and explained Video. Thank you for sharing this with everyone!!!
My pleasure!
Just read your comments on the OCS penalties in race 5 on SA -- would love to see a video explaining this. Your videos are adding greatly to my understanding and enjoyment of this series -- thanks!
Ask the you shall recieve: czcams.com/video/Eeii8Dsp2ms/video.html
Love your work you just gained another Subscriber 🥝🇳🇿💯💪
Thanks!
Thank you for teaching the advanced course on AC 75s.
Advanced is an understatement. We are all doing our PHDs in advanced sailing.
the foot of the mast has to be at 1500+-10mm above MRP and the foil arm pivot has to be 520 +-2mm above MRP. Building the deck ~450mm below the mast step has allowed NZ to add about 3 square meters of sail area which has added about 12 m^3 of sail area moment in a place were the AWA is very close to zero. The full rig has a sail area moment of about 3500 m^3. So the change in heeling moment caused by this fudge is BA about 0.1% if that, while it has added drag and no extra drive With the termination of the sail on the deck and increased luff length the sails induced drag coefficient will be slightly less, possibly 3% less but induced drag is not a large percentage of total water and air drag at low AWA's. In total is not much but it is a game where every little bit counts.
Nice explanation and some brilliant ideas. Thank you.
Another great video, really interesting to see the different approaches to Aerodynamics .
Team Nz has everyone down in Pods on either side, Luna Rossa appears to have added deflectors/fairings as the series has progressed and Ineos don’t really seem to have done much at all which seems a bit odd considering all the talk of collaborations with Mercedes F1 !
Mozzy do you have patreon or some way we can contribute to you and the team? Your content is outstanding and fills the technical analysis the official broadcast so desperately lacks
No sorry, not yet. But thank you for your support. At the moment it's just a hobby. I wouldn't want to take money directly from people them let them down.
Perhaps next cup I could work out a better set up and take some time off from work. Then I wouldn't feel guilty about accepting money.
@@MozzySails You've ALREADY provided the value. It'd be a back payment not a forward compromise!
Thank you for an excellent video, so informative
Mozzy ... Excellent review of mainsail adjustment design voodoo. Also ... Worth seeing Goodison's clear and nuanced "sailors POV" explanation (PlanetSail) of what he as world class, foiling mainsail trimmer actually deals with. Too bad Goody was not on a better team.
I have heard many complimentary things online about Paul Goodison.
@@johnmartin7158 Has exceptional combination of "technical " understanding and a gifted foiling sailor's "feel" for how mainsail is performing in real world. Modesty and being "on point" when explaining this stuff to fans are bonus character traits.
@@alienlifeformresearch2280 I second all what you say. For sure !!!
Thanks for the quality content, nice video.But i suspect the white, than black, lines next to main sheet on LR are to control leech tension since, not having a boom you can't pull it with the vang. I'd say they prolly have a pulley system that phases it with main sheet and cylinder for tensioning. In low winds the tension is much higher, in comparison to pressure on the sail surface, so it opens up a gap in the lower part. I guess the camber control is next to the boom, acting on the battens.
Interesting thoughts...
Another great video, great insight.
Much appreciated!
A great video , thanks so much for your diligence in analysis.
My pleasure!
thanks for your insights mate, as usual very informative :-)
great videos. lots of good points I wasn't considering.
Wow a real in depth into the little things... bet ya ill forget all this come race time.
Another excellent analysis
Another great video. Thank you 👍
More haircut continuity errors. This time thanks to boatspeed.com ! Check out their surface treatment products and help yourself to 10% off with the " Mozzy Sails " discount code 👍
@Mozzy Sails Has reducing the amount of hair you have up high increased your righting moment , leading to improved performance on the beers?! ;)
@@gingermattb certainly has reduced my coefficient of drag!
It's ironic but at a glance ETNZ boat 2 seems to have taken a few design clues from Ineos Team UK boat 1 around the mast rotation point.
Another great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Very cool insight. Thanks!
Grinders moving oil around, foiling 50kt yachts Sopwtih would marvel at such invention. Awesome content as ever.
Do you think INEOS can tweak their main before Saturday ?
I’m rather nervous of a 6-0 score line I just hope Benny boy can sail his own race
Very interesting - great video again 👍
4:44 the forward movement pressure calculations would be interesting to look at with the lowered deck. After all you have 7-20kt from the side airflow quite turbulent low down but 25-50 from the front over a large aerofoil section the air trapped by the large sides with a venturi lift meaning less drag required in the water foils as it leave's the boat.
Thanks, incredibly interesting. :)
I think it’s interesting how TNZ get so much more camber through the bottom of the whole sail than the other teams. Seems like they use that extra camber to reduce their overall mainsail travel angle compared to their competitors.
During todays win for Ineos I wondered if you could shed any light on Luna Rossa's improvement after the round robin stage and whether and in what way Ineos managed to profit from the covid delay.
Really appreciate the technical insights and analysis combined with clarity of delivery.
Really good analysis. If I reflect upon the design elements of the boats in this series, the twin skin mainsail would be the best candidate for trickle-down innovation into conventional sailing. What do you think will trickle down?
It'll be even better for your average punter if it could be controlled when reefed. As it is once you start reefing down the head you've got no tension to control shape. I think there's a lot of potential here though.
I would far rather have a system that functions well and looks a bit, or even very " agricultural ", than a system that turns heads on a catwalk.
Well, I tend to aim for both
Great stuff, it's all in the details. General question on mainsails. Looking for a new main for my 55ft heavy displacement sloop. Lots of cursers go no battens vs partial or full. What is the power loss in a hollow leach no batten VS roach full batten main. Sail makers don't have any actual numbers to make a educated pick.
Rules work around sounds just like Tom Brady claiming that HE didn't over-inflate the football and then lost his phone so no on could prove he asked someone else to do it. Whatever happened, it was working the rules to work an advantage when it came time to put it on the field that was otherwise level. From reading all that all of you have said, it sure appears to those of us who know NOTHING about all of this but what we read, that the Kiwis wrote the rules with enough wiggle room to NOT preclude them from doing what they had predetermined and predesigned. I can just see them in the backroom saying "write it this way and see if anyone figures it out and if not, we'll have this in the bag before we even get on the water."
There also appears to be a reduction in drag on the hull with that very thin stern. With the crew in the side pods it could allow a lifting capability in the centre of the hull.
Am I also right in thinking that the grinders are at the rear of the boat? you've probably covered that before.
Yes, they have grinders and 'afterguard' mixed through the boat. We've got a ETNZ 'crew roles' video coming up after the Prada Cup
Nice thanks for posting 👍
cuold have a higher pessure in the upwind sail. More venturi in the underwind area helped by the jib... maybe
Congratulations. Your are definitely a smart guy
Great work
Luna Rossa's hydraulics all tucked up neatly under the deck....just like a Wally Yacht.
Nice work again Mozzy
Well, they might not have the neatest looking main but ETNZ are sure ripping it if those ~60kt rumors have any truth to them...
These are radical boats,
Just watched races 5 and 6. The problem that Inios has is that "Rita" appears to be sponsored by that Jim Radcliffe hotel and restaurant group The Pig.
The wrong hull shape was designed and shipped to NZ and there really isn't anything that Ben Ainslie or anyone else can do about it other than make the best of a bad job.
Thank you.
just looking at the photo have team nz set the mounting point further up inside the mast so the mast actually covers the mounting point therefore the mast rotates all the way down to the lowered deck level.
ie the mounting point is in the prescribed position but the mast is longer or just lower over all relatively speaking
Is there a total fixed length of the mast in the rule?
Theres a fixed length of mast above the ball. Below the ball is fairing and part of the lower mast control zone.
I noticed that team NZ changed the bottom rear of their mainsail from race seven on. Curious if it's something worth discussing
Seems like this will be an area of further refinement for AC37. The AC40 boat uses nearly the same system as Te Rehutai, but the leech closes much more elegantly at the clew.
What does the outhaul push against, a batten? Are they (and cunninghams) independently adjusted?
Any idea how much extra power the deeper sail generates? If it's significant the surely it's game over
So basically ETNZ turned a monohull into a catamaran?
More like trimaran
Did that back with the hula, not the best of innovations 😕
Hey Mozzy, I am doing a research paper on the America's Cup and was wondering where you got all of this data, the graphs, blueprints, etc for the hydrofoils and sails. I am hoping you see some of these comments and can point me the right direction. Thanks.
I'm confused about the press conference today, can you do a quick video on what they are going to do and the chances plz
Why are Ineos using lines instead of hydros must hamper adjustment ?
ETNZ are not using lines and we’re not using lines like everyone else in Bermuda also .
...and a higher aspect sail due to the mast being just as tall as the others
Thanks .. for some video - explenation to double sail i was waiting long!
Thanks mozzy
U now some build up with balloons insides?
Great stuff. I was looking at the race track data and noticed a slight difference in sailing performance of Luna Rosa compared to UK defending on which tack they were on. Do you think it’s possible to rate LRs port/starboard helmsmen based on how they sail against sir Ben from the data?
2:40 Of course NZ's rig looks a bit agricultural, its an agricultural country, mate!
😁
That launches satellites for NASA :-)
@@bassab2 oh you mean with those nifty Rutherford engines that are 3D printed in California? Teasing aside, I have a lot of respect for Peter Beck and Rocketlab. And for NZ in general, for that matter
@@paulgush nah mate - that's like saying Apple is Chinese because they make bits for them. Rocketlab's Kiwi born and bred with all the launches here in NZ.
@@bassab2 turns out the rocket motor is a pretty crucial part of the rocket, coz that's what makes it a rocket. Who'da thunk?
The mysteries of trimming a double skin main sail are revealed. The approach by each team to maximize the ability to manipulate sail shape for windward and leeward sides of the main. LR system is clean. Ineos is behind the curve. Can they just out sail LR?
We wish! - tell you tomorrow..
@@Toob41 based on the analysis, a boom has a negative effect. It prevents the proper shaping of the main where the center of effort is most critical.
@@SxWerks Yup, the proof was in the results 😥
True that! But ETNZ's main is even sexier than LR. Looking forward to the Cup battle.
Innovation doesn’t go always in the desired direction: do you remember the 2003 ETNZ ‘Hula’?
Well, the hula worked. It's just that the yacht had other shortfalls
The videos just keep getting better... mods to copy NZ lower mast probably way to drastic and not enough time I’m sure for either Ineos or LR to do it. But maybe there are ways for Ineos to loose the boom and get something somewhere between NZ and LR and get some marginal gains for themselves.
With the extra three days delay fingers crossed 🤞 Ineos have been able to “through the kitchen sink at it” and do some of the mods you have identified.
They have certainly had enough time to add the foil drop software as an optional mods and practice to prove it works for them.
I just hope they have taken some calculated risks and these work and give them the slight performance advantage going forwards. As without that I can’t see LR loosing enough of the remaining races NOT to get to seven. Fingers crossed 🤞 Ineos do somehow pull it out of the hat!!!
You just said it ! ETNZ is agricultural ! It dosnt need to be pretty as long as it’s fast time spent on more important things !!!
Hi ! I got the impression that Mozzy is quite complimentary of the Team NZ boat. Perhaps a backhanded compliment for Team NZ. Good on ya Mozzy.
Auckland. John.
Didn't New Zealand write the rules for this cup as the defender? When you're saying they took advantage of the rules, what you really mean is, as the defender, they wrote the rules with a loophole that they thought they could capitalize on, and they are trying to capitalize on it.
Plase make a video about their new "Batwing" !
9:08 ? I can go in to more detail, we're going to be looking at sail plans and CoE in a future video.
Thanks for the video! That is a pretty aggressive haircut.
Lockdown has not been kind to my hair this year!
@@MozzySails Nor to my beard...
No. 8 wire mentality here in NZ!
Why didn't you discuss the sail design on the American Magic boat? We know they are now out of the cup, but that does not mean that they do not exist?
Still reckon I could beat them in my Mirror dinghy,powered by day old chicken phal😉🌶️🌶️🌶️
A bit agriculture 😂
U good man 👨
If NZ has spotted and exploited a loophole, what's to stop others copying?
The whole structure of the yacht is based on the mast step height. They would have to build up their mast steps and move both the foil arms the corresponding distance. Then they likely wouldn't be compliant on other CoG and CoB rules... so it's pretty much impossible to copy at this stage.
@@MozzySails They did draw up the rules, it must be an advantage.
@@MozzySails Isn't that enlarging the main sail area - which is restricted by the rules ?
Dropping the deck and extending sail area ???
@@istra70 nope, sail area below the mast rotation point doesnt count in the measurement. Free sail area.
@@davidbrinkman2768 But EVERY team has the SAME rule book ! It is just the Kiwi way to always be thinking about the simplest/cheapest /most effective and laziest way to sort a problem ... and I don't like the inference that we have an advantage or are CHEATS, that seem to pervade these discussions
I wouldn't regard this as a loophole from the perspective of regular English language. More like thinking outside the box.
In contrast, the bendy foil does bend the language of the rules written in English! :)
"A loophole or loop hole is an ambiguity or inadequacy in a system, such as a law or security, which can be used to circumvent or otherwise avoid the purpose, implied or explicitly stated, of the system. "
I think the intent of rule was to fix the height of the bottom of the mast relative to foil cant axis and fix mast length. So, do believe this is a loophole.
@@MozzySails thank you for replying! I see your point.
Add smaller scale pockets in the sail design..?
I just watched the American Magic capsize again and wonder if I might have spotted a potential save in marginal situations. It goes like this. As an AC 75 heels excessively there comes a point where the righting moment from the raised windward foil arm starts to reduce dramatically. If the foil arm were lowered at that point it would increase the righting moment since the weight would be moving further from the in water foil that everything is pivoting around. It would be a tricky thing to pull off under pressure but if it were set up to occur automatically beyond a certain angle of heel it could save the day. Any thoughts anyone?
Totally agree, I had the same thought! Moreover the other problem in the case of American Magic (and also Ineos in pre-start during the Prada final, thank God they were upwind!) is that when the foil increases his angle of attack, it behaves like an airplane at take-off and the boat started to climb: maybe would be possible to use automatically the flap as ailerons, over a certain angle of attack, to keep the boat down
@@canaleluigigalli Thanks for your comment. I was beginning to think I was on my own with this idea. 😉