Supra LoRad Power Cables & Board - Can power cables improve your audio?
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- čas přidán 13. 07. 2024
- A review of the @SUPRACables LoRad Power cables including the 3x1.5, 3x2.5 and 3x2.5 plus Furutech plug versions as well as the MD-08DC (and MD-06DC) surge protection and filtering power board. Check out their website for more: www.jenving.com/products/power-33
If you're in Australia, you can buy Supra products here: a1futureshop.com.au/brand/sup... (not an affiliate link)
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00:00 Introduction
03:36 Glamour video
04:31 The products
04:42 Supra LoRad MD-08DC power filter
07:37 Supra LoRad power cables
09:42 Testing with the Chord DAVE
10:12 Stock power cable vs Supra LoRad 3x1.5 cable
12:05 Supra MD-08DC power board with DAVE
14:53 Unfiltered sockets on MD-08DC
15:42 MD-08DC direct from mains socket
16:32 Supra LoRad 3x1.5 vs 3x2.5
17:00 Supra LoRad 3x2.5 vs 3x2.5 SPC
18:39 Benefits of Furutech plugs
19:56 Testing with the Topping DX5
21:53 Testing with the Schiit Bifrost 2
25:00 Power filtration with amplifiers
25:28 Testing with the Sparkos Labs Aries
25:39 Stock power cable vs Supra LoRad 3x1.5
27:50 Supra LoRad 3x1.5 vs 3x2.5
28:31 Supra LoRad 3x2.5 vs 3x2.5 SPC
29:00 Supra LoRad 3x2.5 SPC with Furutech plugs
29:31 Preliminary summary
30:15 Using the MD-08DC with a wall wart style SMPS
32:09 Supra MD-08DC vs Thor PS10
33:23 MD-08DC vs PS10 - Burson Conductor 3X GT
34:26 MD-08DC vs PS10 - Sparkos Labs Aries
35:30 Final conclusions
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#audiophile #audioreview #powersupply - Věda a technologie
All of the blind A/Bing I've done with friends and at audio meetups over the years has only made me more open minded about what can impact sound quality.
I agree. The more you try, the more it seems you discover that everything actually does matter. Glad you've been able to explore for yourself!
Even the number of persons in the room, and how they dress. I am not joking.
Two weeks ago my wife and I decided to buy a new tv and retire the old Philips. The new TV, a Sony Bravia 4K, was put on and immediately taken away because music from our hifi sounded horrible with the new TV.
Admittedly, the tv is (was) exactly between the two loudspeakers (I know, I know).
So the TV was ditched, and with the TV the TV pedestal. A little improvement, but the pedestal was still in the room, albeit pretty far from "the zone". As soon as the pedestal left the room and was taken far away behind closed doors, we noticed a great improvement in more or less everything. Our music room will be tv-less from now on, and I have also booked a professional to do some room treatment.
The lesson learned is: everything in your music room is a musical instrument: you don't know what damage you are doing until you take the offender away. And some changes are much more evident (and cheap) than what you obtain from a new set of cables.
Very true. Room treatment makes a HUGE difference for sure
Thanks for a great review :)
A comment about using the Supra powerboard:
It is correct that the first outlet, (counted from the inlet), has no filtering.
But it is usefull to know that the other outlets have different filter effects.
Outlet number 2 has 1 filter element,
number 3 has 2, thus twice the filter effect,
number 4 has 3, and so on...
So you should experiment, by moving the plugs to get the sound you prefer.
Supra (Jenving) advices to place the Power Amp (or integrated amp) in the un-filtered first outlet...
As the general rule, the PA is least sensitive to noise on the AC line, and also need most power.
Many have reported that using filter for the PA can "compress" the sound...
The main function in the filter is to "stop sudden changes", as those changes "might be noise"...
However, the varying need for power in the PA also causes variations in the flow in the AC line,
as the PA "drink more" in one split second, than in the next...
Obviously we should not "choke" those variations!
However, the larger capacitors we have in the PA power supply,
the smaller variations will come in the AC line...
So with "very large capacitors", we CAN use a filter, to remove noise,
thus plugging the PA into outlet number 2... Or even number 3...
The "small signal amplifiers", meaning the pre-amp and or the DAC,
and especially the RIAA if you use that,
are far more sensitive to noise on the AC line...
So we might plug the pre-amp/DAC into the last outlet, to get the most efficient filtering.
But... Also in that case, the sound might become too "compressed"...
If so, then move the plug to the "outlet before the last outlet",
and keep moving the plug against the PA plug, untill the sound is perfect (as you like it)...
I own the 6-outlet power board...
In outlet 1 I placed the PA,
in outllet 2 I placed the TV screen,
in number 4 I placed the DAC/pre-amp
in number 6 I placed the PC, from which I get the sound via USB...
The result is, there is 2 filters BETWEEN the TV and the DAC/pre-amp,
and again 2 filters BETWEEN the DAC/pre-amp and the PC,
so noise from both TV and PC is stopped by two filters, "to protect the DAC/pre-amp"
and there is in fact 3 filters between the PA and the DAC/pre-amp...
The PC has a pretty constant need for power, when playing music or speech,
and also sending the signal to the TV screen... It will not suffer from "strong filtering"...
But noise from the Switched Power Supply, might come back into the AC line...
It is the PA which has the largest variation in its need for power,
as a strong bass tone will use more "as long as it lasts", and so on...
Obviously the largest "fast variations" come from the drums...
"Sound - no sound - sound - no sound, and so on...
The actual filters are "simply" small ring-magnets around the wires...
The "science" is all about "not making those magnets too small or too large"...
I once tried placing a "larger ring-magnet" around the AC line,
and while that magnet was smaller than those placed on PC power cords,
it simply ruined the sound, so it became far too "compressed"...
Meaning, all peaks in the sound, like the attack in percussion and string instruments,
were dampened so much, so they were no longer "peaks".
Surely that gave a "softer sound"... But simply too "soft"...
The effect of that magnet surprised me a lot!!!
And taught me that "the right SMALL dampening magnets" are truly the best...
Obviously a "variable filter effect" is ideal...
And you get that in the Supra power blocks.
While the incoming AC first pass through a PCB with the DC-block circuit, and the High Voltage Protection,
those circuits do not dampen normal noise...
From the PCB the wires go to the 1. outlet, with no magnet around them,
but from the 1. to the 2. the wires have one magnet,
and from the 2. to the 3. the wires have one magnet,
and so on...
Some would argue, parallel wiring from the inlet, is a better solution...
However this series arrangement has the great advantage of "varied damping"...
I find it weird that Jenvings do not inform properly about that great advantage.
My own experience:
After I bought an "extremely good" Class D PA, many singers sounded "sharp and screamy"...
Some would say the high notes sounded "metallic"...
Overall the music sounded "much clearer than with my old amp",
but trumpets and high-pitched voices sounded "too sharp"...
And S sounds became ZZ sounds...
I suspected the new speakers were to blame... But I were wrong...
After buying the Supra power board and Supra AC cords, all sounds wonderful,
so many would say it no longer sounds "metallic", and high pitched voices no longer sound "screamy"...
At the same time the bass sounds more precise, and so does the mid tones.
And the placement of the instruments is even clearer than before...
I did not think that was possible!
So NOW I can hear that the new PA and loudspeakers really sounds MUCH better than my older system, wich was "mid class quality"!
However, after being "used to" the "very clear and sharp sounds",
the BETTER sound, actually seems "a bit dull"...
Still it seems much more "clean and beautiful".
Note that with no music, there was absolutely no audible NOISE...
Now I understand that the AC noise actually "adds to the music" even when "inaudible alone"...
Note, I have a mobile mast on the other side of the street, and I live in a 8 story house-block,
so there is a LOT of EM noise "in the air" and pulse-noise on the AC line...
The shielded AC cable from the wall socket to the power board, and from the power board to the PA,
will lead pulse noise from the mains quite well, but WILL stop EM noise from entering the wires in the cable...
People who live other places might have so little noise, so a filter and/or shielding will never improve the sound!
But "if you can, then TRY IT"...
In my experience the difference CAN be larger than the difference between a mid-range and a high-range amp!
While it is possible you can only hear that difference on a high-end amp, with really good loudspeakers?
You can see the Supra power board being assembled in the factory in Sweden, in the video:
"We assemble the mighty LoRad MD 06 SP", from SUPRA Cables,
and see those ring-magnets being placed on the wires.
Thanks for sharing the extra info!
This is exactly the review I was looking for. And it's not the first time you've answered questions I was asking myself months after your video came out. As always, very informative and understandable. Thank you very much.
That's great news! So glad I could help
Great video!
Here a short story from my side:
I‘ve always been pretty sceptical about power supply affecting sound quality. I‘m studying sound engineering and my teacher said that powercables do not affect audio, and that’s just a trick to get money from so called audiphiles.
My dad however is a hifi guy and has given me a supra power board and 2.5 cables as a birthday presenr as he finds, they sould make a big difference in my setup. (Neumann Kh310 and a Rme Fireface uc)
When i got the board and cables i was expecting to hear very minor changes, if I hear any at all.
I set up my speakers do do a blind test by having the speakers as close to each other as possible and running one with the original power cable and the other one with a supra board and the cable. The difference between the original cable and the supra was so big i tought i messed something up, when setting up, but i didn’t.
Even when switching cables from one to the other speaker the result was the same, supra sounded way more elegant, defined and had a far more detailed stage / stereo field.
I‘m shocked, I expected to hear no difference at all, and now i‘m wondering why my teacher don’t know such a important thing…
Thanks so much for sharing your experiences and great that you tried it for yourself. Such a shame that your teacher is spreading a message that is probably not based on experience, but an incomplete scientific understanding of what's actually going on with power cables and filters. (I'm not suggesting that I have all the answers. My point is that the available science is still limited)
@@PassionforSound This is how science is improved, by accident or by curious, insightful people delving into the deep. What is disappointing is how audio science is made into a cult-like entity, which accepts no dissidence. This ties in with many people having a mechanistic (down the road, reductionism) mindset, which prevents them from understanding complex systems, and since nearly everything is a complex system, renders them unable to think rationally.
Well said, Hugo!
a biomedical engineer here… i been working in very critical medical equipments for many years and i have never seen a fancy stock power cable that came with the a machine. medical electronic equipments that monitor, measure, record and diagnose body functions such as brainwaves and drug releasing pumps to name a couple.
I have no explanation for how/why power cables could make a difference to the sound, but the fact that they don't alter the performance of a device outside of specs (i.e. what it needs to do for medical functions) doesn't mean it couldn't alter the sound (or other performance within specs).
Quite. The power cord that came with my $80,000 HDCAM-SR vtr (or any other broadcast-grade audio/video equipment) is absolutely bog-standard...for a very good reason. Power cords absolutely cannot affect video or audio quality. It's as simple as that. And it's all placebo effect. Audiophiles ran out of real problems to worry about years ago, so now they faff around inventing new "problems" to worry about. It's a bit embarrassing hearing people talk sincerely about these improvements/changes they think they're hearing. That said, there are SO many "audiophiles" around, that I honestly feel like launching my own range of over-priced power cords (and fuses!) 😂
I really would love to see some measurements which would account for any subtle sound changes...
I would too. It would be great if we could accurately predict how each cable will sound, but even the designers still have to listen to fully understand even after simulations and using the theory to make the design in the first place.
@@PassionforSound This is funny because we can totally measure sound/output of speakers and compare two recordings in time/frequency domain to determine difference. Power cables do not make any difference in how music "sounds".
I've been both blessed and cursed with the ability to hear these nuances and differences that changes like this bring to your setup.
Just one small part of my kit -
I have two small modified speaker amplifiers that are powered by one Drok 48V 10A SMPS. This PS gets fed by a custom Audiophile AC cable I made... The amplifiers are fed from this PS by 2 custom Canare 4S6 Star Quad DC cables with Oyaide barrel plugs. This was all done to replace the 2, 24V 5A laptop style bricks that the amps came with.
This is the current power cable setup, but by no means the last. I can as well get silver plating and dual shielding on these DC cables as well. Pricey though.
I also use the same Canare cable to feed my current DAC, the Schiit Hel2 E... But this one was built USB A to C. This cable is also DC only, Once I implemented it, all the inherent reported problems of this DAC, such as it not being recognized on the laptop or being underpowered all disappeared. By eliminating the data handshake on the USB power cable it just works and has solved the biggest issue the Hel faced since the problem surfaced around Oct 2021, with a Windows update that gave the OS the ability to downgrade the power of and turn off USB ports that were not in use. This wreaked havoc on the USB controller chip in the Hel and caused it to need a ritual to be constantly performed each time you turned your system on. This ritual has now ended. Cables matter FTW!
I intended on making a 4th version of my SMPS Enclosure, with the new one utilizing a DC to DC isolated and filtered buck converter. This will allow me to use the third output of the PS to instead of powering a USB fan for the components on a noisy suplly, It will provide clean 5V 3A DC ppwer to the Hel2 E and thus improve the system even more. Allowing me to power the current mini rig with a single clean SMPS.
When I get the SMSL DO100 though... I won't need to make V4 of my SMPS. I'll need to make a new power cable for it... And possibly my own AC filter.
The sound improvements over time... With each change was very apparent. I can attest to your findings with my own.
Cables absolutely matter. Great video!
Wow! That's quite the investment in time and planning to create such a customised power setup, but I'm so glad that you've found options that work for you and also that you've shared it here for others to read about. Thank you!!
Power-related products represent about 15% of the total cost of my system (low-6-figure range). I was a skeptic until a few years ago. The dealer I bought my speakers from loaned me some Shunyata products and I was surprised that the difference was so obvious (tried on my power amp).
As you said repeatedly, I’d discourage people from making a big investment in cords until the rest of the system is dialed in and at a level which represents the ceiling of the owners budget.
However, once the system is sorted, it’s worth experimenting. I’ve compared many different levels and generations of Shunyata’s products and other reasonably affordable products from other companies.
You don’t need to spend down a fortune to get good products. Belden BAV power cords are great for the money.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, Chris! Always great to hear more perspectives and options.
I used the Supra LoRad Power Cables 2.5MM, 1.5M On the D90 AKM499 & SP400. I can say I didn't notice a single difference over stock cables Which is a good thing shows I have clean input, but i kept using them & still do to this day. Then I also tried the Supra LoRad Power Cables 2.5MM, 1.5M Silver coated one on the D90 & I did notice the sub-bass dull out & the highs I don't know how to put it in terms people will understand, the highs cleaned up, it was more noticeable Possibly due to how the bass dulled out. So I tried it with the SP400 & didn't notice a single difference which shocked me so retested the D90 with stock & the supra copper cables & sure enough same deal just a change dull sub-bass & highs standing out with the silver coated one.
Thanks for sharing your experiences! I think some devices will show less impact than others for a variety of reasons such as the power supply used and also the ability of the device to render soundstage depth
@@PassionforSound I agree with that. Swapping power cords and a filter, I noticed a pretty big - not always 'better' - difference with my older, more budget components, and a lot smaller difference with my new components. I guess it's because of better power supplies and internal filtering.
I definitely think some devices will be more immune to power issues than others so that makes sense. And, like with any cable change, different isn't always better as you say
You need to do it double blind. Get it right 8 or 9 out of 10 and your on to a winner.
Thanks for a great review Lachlan. Very few of us here are audio engineers so anyone taking the time to present logically tested 1st-hand experience is useful data to help my research. Everyone's home audio environment is different along with their audio equipment so there will be differences of opinion but it is a given that improvements can be made with certain audio cables (general)... possibly at the tail end of the audio purchase journey. Power filter/conditioners on the other hand are probably needed at the start of that same journey to maximise investment potential. Someone wrote a really long comment and in it mentioned that they have a TV connected in one of the outlets in their board (amongst audio equipment) - I wanted to say that in my experience a TV probably needs its own dedicated power conditioning equipment since it appears to be a source of noise itself (in the context of pure audio signal pursuit). A sensible approach may be to buy protective power equipment first... then if your system is settled, try out ones that refine the sound. Again, thank you !
Great info. Thank you and I'm glad you liked the review!
Hell yeah, power cables!!! Good on you for experimenting. I think we need more of that in the headphone hobby in general. I also did some experimenting and had various results. You really can't know till you try and plug it in.
Anyway, I personally use Allnic power cables for my system. I think they're great and make a pretty significant improvement. Allnic dealers might let you trial them risk free. I suggest looking into it.
Glad you liked the video and the experimentation! Thanks for the tip about the Allnic cables
Thank you!!! I am struggling with Power Cables for sources right now. Also thank you for having the guts to set boundaries on commenters that say nasty things or do black and white demanding comments. They are not helpful to the discussion. I find that power cables do make a difference and can have their won sound signature. For comparatively little money and for fin, try a few different cables off of Ali-express! OMG, its a sound signature potpourri! I appreciate cable recommendations, especially if someone can discuss the sound signature they experienced. I am finding that the cables I've tried in the $150-200 USD range have had sonic limitations but I'm going to keep trying. The Supras are in the $95 range, so I am concerned. Dear God, I want a good Shunyata Alpha power cable but the price! Yeow!
Thanks for watching and commenting. I've steered clear of the Ali Express cables in general, but maybe I'll budget for a few cables down the track and see what I find. I'd also be keen to try some really high end ones and see what the difference is (if any) from the more affordable ones.
Great vid, kudos. I so appreciate you have the unflappable courage to cover the seemingly hot topics. Ready through the comments I'm impressed they are mainly positive. I'd like to know the word count on this one. LOL
Thanks Eric! Yes, thankfully most viewers of this channel are pretty respectful even when they don't agree.
Hello :) , I bought the Supra LoRAD power cable and supra usb 2.0 USB to my xduoo TA10 DAC/AMP and the difference in the sound quality was big. My question is: The xduoo TA10 has integrated linear power supply inside, so there is no need for me to buy the supra mains block right? Or? Also besides the MD-08DC mains block there are also some older cheaper options from supra, would they purify the sound just the same as that more expensive options, would they make the same job with some less additional features? And what cable did you use with that mains block plugged into a wall?
My experiences suggest that linear power supplies are equally benefited by the power filtering. The Schiit DAC I measured uses an internal LPS too.
As for the different boards. The cheaper ones don't have the DC filtering IIRC. I would personally just go for the MD08/6- DC and know that you're getting everything you need once and for all.
As for the cable, I can't remember how the pricing is structured, but there is a specific cable that you buy with the power boards because they have a unique connector to allow for the current required.
Interesting and informative 👍. I'd love to experiment with some power conditioning just to know the results.
The power filter was the biggest, most consistent improvement for me. So much so that I've now bought two of the DC filtering power boards
Great video! Now I want to replace my stock cables, but my gear is pretty great as it is, so it will be a long time before I upgrade power cables.
Are you planning to upgrade your set up?
I've actually purchased two power boards and all the cables I reviewed for that very reason. It's a nice finishing step for a system I think
I don’t know if power cables can improve the sound of an audio system. I am just happy with the huge difference they did to mine. ;-)
That's great that you're happy with your experience! 🙂🙂
the only thing in this hobby i am dead against is fuse "upgrades", just wanted to get that out of the way.
power cables i can easily believe make a difference.
great review, very well explained. will try one on an amp 1st and see how i go.
LOL. I've literally JUST today received an "audiophile" fuse to try. I laugh because of the timing of your comment, not the content of it because I'm super sceptical too. We'll see...
Thanks so much for this review on these Supra cables. I’ve been waiting for this for some time! I have the Supra USB cable you reviewed in my system. Do you have any idea on how a Peachtree Nova 300 Class D integrated amp would react to the silver plated Supra power cable? Will the cable’s filtration design somehow bring muddyness with the sound, or may the cord bring more excitement? Thanks again!!!
Glad you liked the video, JB! I can't say for sure on the Nova 300, but nothing I heard with the products I tested (and have continued to use) with the Supra cables would suggest you'll have any issues with it sounding muddy. The SPC version in particular is consistently cleaner and crisper than stock power cables across everything I've tried.
@@PassionforSound Thanks again. I’ll give the SPC version a go. I also have a Black Ice Audio Foz SS-X Sound Epander that will help out if the SPC cord collapses the sound stage. Gotta love tweaks 👍 Cheers!
My pleasure. Hope you love the results!
Great video. Would love to see your take on the impact that speaker cables have on sound.
Sadly, I don't currently do any passive speaker reviews so I can't arrange that one yet. Maybe in the future though...
Nothing that will be Audible !
Mains cable makers like EGM in Aus and Isotek in the UK have different/separate designs of cables for higher current needs like amplifiers. MCRU in the UK will custom build a mains cable for a particular usage and your budget. (And they ship to Aus.) I got MCRU to build me a custom mains cable for powering the PS Audio Power Plant 15. In the middle of the cable was a small metal box containing some DC filtering. I still have a Thor PS10. I bought a 'cheap' Cayin HA-300 tube headphone amp that has 220 volt transformers. The Thor PS10 is now used to provide 220 volts to that headphone amp. (There's a 220/240 v switch on the back of the Thor.)
Thanks for all the info, Trevor! I've heard good things about MCRU cables.
Chord m scaler and tt2 come with power cords that have pucks. How do you used supra power cords with these products?
Sadly, you can't.
I use Supra SPC 2.5 powercords. The Supras sounds alot better than the basic stock cords. More air/better dynamics/cleaner sound
I couldn't agree more 🙂
@@PassionforSound I haven't tried out the basic Lorad cables. But the SPC range/cords from Supra are very good powercables for the price. I love them!!!
And big thanx for a great channel!!!
My pleasure! Glad you're enjoying your cables
Great review as always! Did you use the first socket for the hp amp or 2-8 (the first is recommended for speaker amps)?
Yes. Amps from the power input end, DACs from the other end. 🙂
Great. I bought it after your recommendation and I fully agree with all of your assessments.😊 I did however find that the Burson soloist GT lost a tiny bit of dynamics compared to being plugged into the wall (but it improved in terms of noise floor, less “graininess” and better clarity). However, I did not experience any noticeable loss of dynamics when plugging in the holo audio Bliss which is a fully class A amplifier (from what I understand it draws power more consistently so that might be the reason). Really appreciate your detailed and structured reviews, it’s really helpful when making purchasing decisions🙏🙏
So glad I could help.
I know the Burson team recommend connecting directly to the wall socket when possible so that makes sense.
A few years ago I got a filter - a Supra MD06 mk3. Initially I was pretty impressed with the improvement of my system - cleaner, more detailed etc. But after a few months though, I started to get slightly annoyed by this 'new sound'. I guess it was just personal preference. Eventually I replaced it with a nice unfiltered power strip. The Supra is now on my work desk - powering machinery. The fact that it is very sturdy and dust sealed is a big bonus.
That's interesting! I'm not surprised. I've had "audiophile" power cables banished to computer and internet equipment for such bad behavior!.
That is interesting. I've certainly got no complaints about the effects on my various devices and have bought two MD-08DCs now. I wonder if some devices work better than others with them? Also, local differences in power could play a part too I expect
@@PassionforSound I also think that it's personal preference. The sound that can be described as 'audiophile' only worked for a small selection of my music collection - many other of my recordings - I guess the ones we would call poorly recorded/mixed/mastered do not sound pleasant if the system is too revealing...
Absolutely. That's a big point and a large reason why I lean towards warmer setups so I can enjoy all the music in my collection - even the crappy recprdings
@@PassionforSound indeed!
Question ; Is the IEC connection the same on all the cables and devices you tested , I Iooked up the Australian Supra product link you provided and theres no mention of IEC connection type so are they all the same , does it not matter ? Always confuses me . Cheers mate
Hi Craig, yes, all IEC connectors are the same 3-pin configuration. The only difference is if you order the Fututech plug option you get a different, better plug housing, contacts, etc. but the actual connector is identical
@@PassionforSound ok thanks for that
Interesting review, I’m new to your channel and enjoying your content. I’m interested in your findings with the Thor PS10. To my understanding, the Thor is not a power conditioner in its own right as it is purely a voltage regulator. Did you use the separate Thor smart board when you were comparing it to the Supra power board? If not, your results are not surprising. Did you try the Supra power board plugged in to the Thor PS10 directly? I imagine the Supra board would be superior to the separate Thor smart board as a “conditioner” in this context. I use a PS10 myself and I think it does a good job of maintaining constant voltage to my gear. The AC power from my mains varies very significantly here in Melbourne throughout the day (as low as 230v and sometimes way over 240 v late in the evening when power consumption in the grid is low) and it’s reassuring knowing that the PS10 is buffering those changes to my gear. I have a Gary Cawsey power conditioner plugged in to the Thor for the filtering. I’m waiting on delivery of a Chord Qutest to replace my old Chord QuteHD which has served me very well for 10 years or so. I’m really keen to hear how it stacks up in my setup.
Hi Gino, thanks for your comment. I thought the PS10 was a conditioner too, but I might be mistaken as I didn't buy it for that reason and therefore didn't research it deeply. Because the connection for the Thor powerboard is a male IEC connector, I couldn't try the Supra board without running it off the Thor board which seemed too much daisy-chaining. It's a shame I didn't test it just for the sake of curiosity
Hi
I am planning buying this power cord
For my power amplifiers and preamplifier
What is your opinion please reply sir
I don't think I can say much more than what's said in the review. They're good cables.
You can improve on the depth/sounstage by switching the fuse in the Supra mains block with a Hi-Fi Tuning silver fuse or other 'Audiofile' fuses.
That's something else I'm yet to play with. Thanks for the reminder!
You need someone to do the change for you. Placebo is very strong. And remember you go from listening to analyzing ! It's human nature.
Hmm...so you change the power cord ...you change the fuse....what about the other 20-or so things on the primary side of the power supply?! Changing these two things cannot POSSIBLY make any difference. It's pure nonsense.
Oh, power cords are a.b.s.o.l.u.t.e.l.y. fundamental in a proper hifi system. After all that I've experienced so far, dozens and dozens of various devices & equipment rolled, I stand that power cords are THE most important cables in any chain, period.
Naturally, hundreds of non-believers will attack me/us, naturally because they haven't heard ANY real highend cable yet.
I was a sceptic before as well, until I tried a few cables myself and heard surprising differences. This experience opened a fantastic exploring journey with my chain and that was the best thing to happen to me.
I wish everyone had the same access and possibilities to spectacular power cords as I do, people would be instantly happier :)
I definitely agree that they have an impact and, more importantly that people should absolutely try it for themselves if they can afford to do so. I'm not yet convinced that they're the most important cable, but I'm willing to discover more now that I've opened this can of worms 🙂
I've been waiting for this review, and its been very informative and helpful. Having to choose between a greater soundstage or better imaging is unfortunate... I wonder whether supra can be persuaded to make a pure silver mains cable?
I agree about the trade-off being a bit tricky and it makes me wonder sometimes what's "right" because the same thing happens with their IFF vs Sword interconnects. I don't know if pure silver would be the best solution as it might create more of the SPC effect - not sure.
@@PassionforSound I've only done one test, when I had a custom pure silver headphone cable made for me, but there were no downsides or tradeoffs that I have experienced with silver plated copper. Though admittedly it is the more expensive path to take, it would be nice to see it as an option more often
How come a power cable that costs $1000 sound better than one that came with the components.
I don't know. Haven't tried one that expensive yet and I'd suggest that not all of the expensive cables will sound better
@@PassionforSound I've just gone to watch this video again, and read up on the supra power cables whilst I did so. I wasn't aware that the regular cables are tin-plated copper, I thought it was plain copper. So any implications of the plating process causing any detrimental effects, may well equally apply to both the tin and silver versions. So it might be worth trying to compare the supra cables against a pure copper power cable with similar construction/shielding/cost
"Carrying more accurately" the power from the mains? How's that?
You had it right in the beginning transformers and filters do all the work to clean up your power enough said in pro audio we use a 150 dollar furman for conditioner and surge protection and the 8 outlets you need because you are plug-in your equipment on a rack 850 power cords/conditioner is audio foolery
i believe in cables can enhance/tune the sound but one cable I can't get my heads around is the power cable.... that 1m of super thick, chunky cable is only a small part of the power chain as the cable behind the powerpoint the sparkies mostly use cheap, flimsy copper cable stretches meters away to the fuse box....
It makes no sense to me either! The same as Ethernet cables and specialised USB/Ethernet cards in computers. They're such a small piece of the chain, but somehow all have an influence (for better or worse)
@@PassionforSound for the Dave, I think a change to Sean Jacobs ARC6 DC4 LPS will do heaps better than just changing the power cable.... if you spend that much on a DAC anyway
I agree that a LPS would be the most impactful power upgrade.
Makes sense to me, I will save up my cable pennies for a new DAC and then think again, cheers
Glad I could help!
U need Nordost Odin to truly shine bro :D But for real, I got excalibur usb, good cable, no wood blocks tho.
I'm yet to try Nordost cables
I've been into hifi for over twenty years now and am definitely on the side of cables improving the enjoyment of my system. I have never measured anything relating to sound quality. I wouldn't even know where to start. All I know is that I prefer my system with the better, and yes, more expensive, cables. And I don't worry how or why this may be.
One thing I always seem to see when this issue comes up is that the naysayers never seem to explain if they have actually tried and experimented with cables etc. They simply state that they cannot possibly work based on how they understand things. Surely if they want to argue against the possibility that cables make a difference they should be able to give examples of their experiences with trying them first. Every subject has an argument both for and against. But surely any argument should be backed up with actual experience.
You'd think so, but we live in a world where cognitive dissonance wins over exploration and experience in many cases.
Thanks for commenting!
Is there a 120V Supra LoRad power board for US customers? I can't seem to find any
I think they make it for 120V, but their website, distribution and marketing aren't particularly good so I'm not certain - sorry
I recommend the isotek optimum. It changes everything
It would want to for the price! Hopefully I can try them at some point
Might as well go neotech. They're the company that provides occ/upocc to most of these big audio brands. Might as well get it from the source then pay the upcharge. Neotech Sahara/Amazon cables would be double the price from one of those name brand companies.
Neotech definitely make some great cables based on my old experiences with them. I don't know that the pricing will actually be that different though because there's always the wholesale vs retail pricing to consider. Only a comparison of products would show if they're actually charging less for the same performance
i've found from my experiments that unfilter power board are better for power amps in lieu of filtered.
Yes, for power amps this seems to be the common wisdom. It doesn't seem to apply to headphone amps due to the lower power draw I think
@@PassionforSound i think you are probably right. ive also tried my filtered powerboard on my streamer and makes imo no perceptible difference
I would suggest people get a surge protector especially if you have overhead power lines in the street. If one of those street transformers blows then it will fry all your digital gear in a heartbeat. Some older appliances will survive but not the modern stuff. Happened 6 months ago in my parents street. It fried a lot of items in every house within several streets. Probably over half a million dollars worth. And insurance companies don’t cover surges unless from a direct lightening strike.
That's a great point. I don't know if I mentioned that the Supra boards are also surge protectors so you're covered there too 🙂
Hi, My name is Daniel and I believe in cables :) Seriously though, my experience with power cables is that they act like filters in my system (KEF LS50 wireless). You don't have to pay thousands of $ to test that. I tried different power cables in the $100-$200 range, and the sonic difference was audible. Some brighter, larger sound stage, some darker, some made no difference at all. I know, I know. I can't explain it, I don't understand it, but I can hear it. I first changed the power cables on my KEF because the stock ones where to short and wanted something aesthetically pleasant, I was not changing them thinking they would change the sound but they did. I did the same for both of my subs but that did nothing for the sound besides looking better. On my tube phono preamp, I tried 3 cables before I found one that I liked better than the stock cable. They are minor differences, but they are there. One of my friend that did not believe in cables (Power cables can't change the sound, it's the placebo effect, that's not possible...), came home and after we played with different power cables, he changed all his power cables. That was priceless! For sure, we must be crazy.....
Thanks so much for sharing your experiences, Daniel! It does seem crazy, but I'm with you that the differences are there.
i have two monos and more, how to use correctly my md 08? thanks .
My understanding is that your amps should be plugged into the two outlets closest to where the mains power comes into the board. From there you can connect all other gear to whichever outlet you want.
@@PassionforSound this is the way i do, but supra says that nif filtering is progressive, and that you can hook amplifier till 150w, this is not totally clear because, in my rig i have two 80 watt monos otl valve amp, you know what i mean, probably is suitable for digital and soldi state.
also, i haven’t opened the power box but by ear i think that is arranged like master and slave plug.
I don't know what you mean about master and slave plug.
As for the power limits, it might be referring to power draw of 150W, not the power output of the amps, but I don't know - haven't looked into it that deeply
I got a used Supra lorad md 06 mkIII and a Lorad 2.5 power cable.
My amp is an Iotavx sa3 currently, speakers are Dynaudio evoke 10.
I tried everything, but the supra combo made no difference, tried all kind of music.
They are going back to the seller.
Writing this for someone in the future.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Sorry that you didn't hear any benefits
@@PassionforSound I think my electrical network is not polluted enough. Guess filtering is not mandatory. Might try again something different with my next amp.
Quite possibly. There are no doubt lots of variables with power stuff
@@kristofvadnai7468Exactly my thought, did you have noise and hum during no playback of music, before you bought this filter, if not then your power was already clean enough.
Thanks!.....
Always a pleasure
I personally believe if you hear a difference you must be able to measure a difference. My theory is that there may be a functional relationship between power delivery and slew-rate performance of the DAC and AMP. Perhaps there's a functional relationship with jitter performance as well. The slew rate and jitter control then become a function of how well the system can soundstage and image. I'm a bit skeptical about tonal changes though - maybe the new power implementations does heat the component differently and the change in resistance across the r-2r or chip creates the changes in output tones? While these changes can exist I have to ask myself are they always going to be perceived as better? Really with this speculation I really view these cables as more as gambles as it may put the system more or less in your preferences in various magnitudes which may not even be perceivable on certain gear combinations. Maybe there is a definite improvement in general with the 'better' cables but honestly, I feel like trying new headphones would in general always be more (enjoyment/$).
I would definitely agree that trying different cables "blindly" is a gamble. I find myself preferring the Supra copper cables on some devices and the silver on others as an example. Who knows what different brands cables would be like until they're reviewed and compared across multiple devices.
Agreed I go with the science,they dont affect sound quality.This has been shown time and time through ASR and Audioholics.
Edward, don't forget the content I just posted about the M-Scaler. Amir's tests are suitable for measuring the performance of DACs and amps, but he's often applying the wrong tests to other gear.
all inputs has DC filter. But the additional filter is only for the 6 others.
Thanks for clarifying
@@PassionforSound I have an earlier version with DC filter. 2 with only DC filter. And 5 with DC filter and additional filter.
I appreciate the wisdom from ypur experiences 🙂
I would suggest that anyone who is thinking of upgrading any type of cable for their hifi, should learn basic soldering skills and watch some DIY videos on cable making. All the raw materials that high end cable manufacturers use, are available on the web at pennies to the pound. Pure OCC silver XLR cables will cost you thousands, I've made my own for a couple of hundred. Plus you can make the exact length that you need. I've made all my own cables and if I bought them off the shelf with the same specs, they would probably cost me more than my components that they're connecting.
It's also a nice way to understand what's going into the cables.
@@PassionforSound And it's not hard. I have to confess. Everything I needed to know, was in an odd 4 to 5 videos from a cable series made by ANA[DIA]LOG. I Got Neotech UP-OCC Silver solid core XLR bulk cable. This top shelf wire goes for 36 Pound Sterling Per Quarter metre. I got some length of this, Ended the wire with Oyaide Focus 1 XLR connecters. Now I have all my main components connected by interconnects that out specifies, in build quality and material excellence, cables going for multiple thousands, Just for hundreds. Unfortunately some people pay thousands more for someone soldering
3 wires to a plug and most of the time, to inferior wire. I believe that wires make a difference but only to certain price and that top shelf wire and components are easily available on the web. After a long time researching for advice on the web, I found, I got everything I needed from hificollective.co.uk What ever budget you set, you won't get bad quality. I'm not affiliated with ANA[DIA]LOG or hificollective but I must give credit where it's due. This is the 2 thing that not only saved me money but more importantly, taught me a real world, understanding of hifi wiring. facts is, all you need is some simple, enjoyable instruction and a reputable bulk cable seller. They made no drama about sending it from UK to Australia and I received everything in good time. I hope your followers try. They will have top shelf for peanuts.
I'll certainly look into it even if no-one else does 😁
You should have even tested TRIPPLITE power cables along with Supra cables and that comparison would have been better than a comparison of Supra cable with generic cable because the quality of generic cable vary a lot and hence results could vary with one generic cable to another generic cable which makes your comparison between generic cable and Supra cable null and void.
It all depends on what I can get my hands on for the review. When the channel is big enough to make money, I'll gladly buy other stuff to compare
I actually prefer upocc/neotech wire when it comes cables. I wonder what type of copper Supra is using.
I'm not sure. It's probably listed somewhere, but as first foray into power cables, I didn't go digging too deep
Supra is quite low end, but good that your heard a difference and know that there are much better cables.
Plugs are perhaps even more important 60%plug and 40% cable itself. You used I think f-11 gold which is the cheapest, no offence. But there is much bette stuff with WAY bigger differences. All in all I like your openminded. Fuses make also a quite noticeable difference, I realllllly like the SR Purple. Expensive but it sometimes feels almost as a component upgrade. But you can swap out the glas fuses for ceramic and you will also hear a tiny bit nice improvement for around 70cents.
Last but not least and I know this is hard to believe but I have allottttt experience but cable and plug burn in is a real thing. Slubby bass and congested sound are typical, punch and opening of soundstage will come later.
Gold sounds rich but not much detail and air. Rhodium gives more air, details but sounds somewhat thin on beginner systems. And you’re absolutely correct about the generic cable this is typical fake detail/ dynamic that you experience when there is more noise. Funny thing is that these effects sometimes give more drama which can be involving. But ultimately when you do more A and B comparison and things are burned in you will definitely go for the more proper and refined sound. Again guitar that are more sparkly comes from the noise. But if you change the Furutech to a rhodium plug you have the extra sparkle + detail and calmness and spaciousness.
I'm keen to explore this area further. It's really my first venture into the power cable and power treatment rabbit hole. Thanks for sharing your experiences!
Simply put.....unless there is something seriously wrong with your OEM cable..... NO! The design of the inside power supply is light years more important and yes I have formal education in both, not placebo output.
Well they are pretty....
They're a bit nicer than a regular black cord, but more than I'd personally spend for aesthetics alone
Had you tested power amplifiers then you would probably had noticed larger differences.
Amir at ASR just proved that power cables makes no difference. If you hear a difference it's all in your head. You would need to provide a blind test on video to prove that you can hear difference.
I'm not looking to prove anything. You can take it or leave it.
As for Amir's tests, he's proving that there's a bunch of stuff that can't be measured or that the measurements he's taking aren't relevant for some products.
Amir isn't wrong. Anyone hearing a difference has something going on in their brain, not in their audio system.
I wonder why 10 years ago this wasn’t a thing. I have a $8000 amplifier, and it comes with a pretty hefty power cord, it looks nothing like this new aftermarket cords
There's still a lot we don't know about many things. I'm guessing that, 10 years ago, they didn't know the benefits of better cables and/or which metals and construction approach produced the best results.
@@PassionforSound😂😂😂
Have to say I was confused along the way with all the model numbers 😂😂😂
Yeah, they don't make it easy with the naming conventions 😉
@@PassionforSound heheh Sony is still using the letters someone fell on the keyboard created… WH-1000XM5, WF-1000XM4… I have a pair of Supra XLR as a gift from the guy I bought the iFi PromiCAN Sugnature but didn’t need to use it yet. I suspect will use it soon as I’d just bought a switch 3-in-3-out (XLR x 2 and RCA x 10.
So true about Sony! 😂
@@PassionforSound seems others in their respective companies have realized that if a product line’s model numbers are named after them which can save jobs, become popular and gain visibilities, I suspect many are falling on their keyboards. It’s probably worth the injury 😂 😂 😂
🤣🤣
I tried them and my sound turned leaner, losing the inherent musicality and dynamics of my amplifier.
When you say you tried them? Which ones exactly?
The lightblue lorad cables with Supras massive plugs. Probably 5 years ago. I also owned the LoRad power strip with 6 inputs which didn’t do any good with neither my Naim Nait XS nor my vintage Pioneer SA-8500, which sounded lean when running through the cables or the cables and the strips.
They definitely recommend not running power amps with power filtering, but I'm surprised that the cables made the sound worse. Thanks for sharing your experiences
With power cables, I have to think that if you can hear a difference then you'd be able to measure that difference. If you can't that's, IMO, the placebo effect.
That's assuming that we understand everything about auditory perception, but we don't. I also don't have the equipment to even begin hunting for measurable variables and see what correlations can be made.
@@PassionforSound "That's assuming that we understand everything about auditory perception, but we don't"...Well, what we do understand and know is that the placebo effect is a real thing. How would a "better" power cable clean up the sound? It would only transmit what is in the line already, no ?
Theoretically that seems true, but boiling any differences down to placebo is ignoring everything we don't know and is no better than an assumption/guess
@@PassionforSound It's certainly much more logical than saying things are true because we just don't know. That would be disregarding all that we do know. Which in this case is quite a bit.
So, Isaac Newton should have said "No, the apple didn't fall from the tree because there's no known way that could have occurred!" Interesting logic...
I think any discussion of audio perception, to be scientifically sound, should logically include at least some brief mention of how the human brain processes hearing , because of the easy suggestibility of human hearing , and its tendency to create reports of desired sound that isn't there, but becomes a reality in the brain that operates without any mechanism for self awareness.
You're focussing on only one small part, as true as it may be. It's also important to factor in the more recent studies that are discovering how ultrasonic content influences our perception of sound (despite being beyond our ability to consciously perceive) and how sensitive our auditory system is to even tiny shifts in timing accuracy.
You're focussing on only one small part, as true as it may be. It's also important to factor in the more recent studies that are discovering how ultrasonic content influences our perception of sound (despite being beyond our ability to consciously perceive) and how sensitive our auditory system is to even tiny shifts in timing accuracy.
Next step use a battery powered 😎
Yep. Not sure I'm ready to go that far, but would be great, I'm sure.
snakeoil
If every time you lied, a hair fell out, that would be an accurate representation😊
I'm not following...
I couldnt watch after min 6. The complete lack of scientific understanding about EM radiation got to me.
I'm 26 mins in...and honestly I don't know whether to cry, laugh, or scream. Overall I find it somewhat embarrassing to hear nonsense spoken with sincerity...but that sums up most of the audiophile community. It's all pretty cringe.
explanation ... ?
I was very disappointed by Supra's power cords.Their USB cables are great but power cords barely do anything.
I'm sorry to hear that, Allan. My testing would suggest that they have minor sonic impact only so I can understand your conclusions and the USB cables can have a much more significant impact IMO. I do believe they're a nice upgrade if you're at that point in your system setup, but they're not something I'd obsess over. The filtering power board is the more significant upgrade I think.
@@PassionforSound The thing is, Supra USB performs like 10X as expensive models, while power cords performs as it should be, just an entry level product. The upgrade is not significant.
I like the Supra USB cables, but I don't agree on the value being that much above their price when something like the Curious Evolved exists and is significantly better (IMO) than the two Supra USBs. I do think the Supra Excalibur USB is outstanding for its price and one of the best for the money though.
IMO hardly bearable and just painful to listen to, after a long series of excellent gear reviews you released.
Sorry to hear that. Are you referring to the sound quality or content?
@@PassionforSoundIt's about the content, especially from 17:00 on with ever increasing euphoria, which appears somewhat, let me just say, " burlesque" to me. -However, I find your gear reviews really helpful in general, whether it's about headphones, DACs or hp amps. So keep it coming please.
I'm not really sure what's different as it was my same approach as always in this one, but hopefully you'll enjoy the next videos more
bollocks squared.
Ouch! Sounds painful 😉
Is he for real?
You might be in the wrong hobby.
Sadly, yes.
If you can hear a difference between power cables then just wait until you have heard the huge improvement with my Audiophile Paint, only $999 a can. For that extra wide sound stage try my Magic Beans. Simply place one Magic Bean on top of each speaker and WOW! Only $599 for a pack of 6.
Anything "heard" with different power cords is pure placebo. All it does is get power from the wall to the device. It carries NO audio signal. It's transfers raw power to the power supply. The power at the end of either cord is the same. Forget the science that proves they can't affect it and just use some basic logic. It's been shown that audio and speaker cables have minimal effect and they carry a very low voltage audio signal that can be more affected by external things. 120 or 240 volts with no audio signal??? 6 foot of wire won't do anything. And if anyone say's "have you tried it?" or just listen I'll scream. PLACEBO, sorry but that's it.
I thought so too...
Yes, yes, and yes once again. What people don't seem to understand is that the placebo effect is REAL. People genuinely believe they hear a difference. So you'll never convince them that it's all in their head 🤷♂️
The problem with this theory is that it fails to explain why people who have no expectations or awareness of how something "should sound" often end up hearing these upgrades as doing the exact same thing (e.g. smoother, brighter, more space - whatever the common description is). If it were all in their heads, the descriptions of what changed would be all over the place, but they're not. As I've said elsewhere, I have no explanation because it doesn't make sense based on what we know and understand, but having tested for myself with an expectation of NOT hearing a difference, I can't deny that there was a difference. For example, I tended to prefer a lower priced copper power cable over the higher priced silver one. If it were just expectations, I'd have subconsciously convinced myself that the silver cable sounded better because it's meant to. Again, no explanation, just sharing my experiences with emphasis on the fact that they went against expectations.
@@PassionforSound Well, you have to understand how placebo works. Expecting to not hear something then hearing a difference still could be placebo. It's a problem cause ultimately we "listen" but it's the most fallible way to evaluate cause of the things our brain does. That's why it helps to understand how electricity works also. And how circuits work. Even cables that carry audio signal have a small effect on sound. No cable can improve sound, just some degrade it less.
It's amazing when I raise this challenge how people choose to ignore the finer details. I don't disagree with anything you said about people hearing differences despite not expecting to - that's a fair point. What it does not explain though is why the resulting impressions seem to align between people who have not communicated or been predisposed to hearing a certain outcome. It also doesn't explain why the resulting preferences could be towards a product that someone consciously or subconsciously expects SHOULD be better.
Drawing everything back to what we know fails to consider what we might not know and ignores the suggested evidence that there might be more to it than we understand.
The history of science is full of facts that were true until we understood more about the topics and realised that we were wrong or perhaps just not nuanced enough. I believe that anyone truly interested in the science should at least be open to exploring the possibilities. And, to be clear, I am not claiming to have definitive evidence of what/how/why might be going on, but I do believe it requires further exploration to prove anything definitive and not just write off everything we can't explain as "placebo".
As a reviewer you Lachlan have vested interest to be biased for there to be differences when there are not.
I do believe you are honest and can hear these differences even if there are not real. I’m sorry there is no way you could possibly hear at this level, let alone the equipment itself being able to amplify and produce sound differences in a power cord, it’s just not possible. Do yourself a favour and recognise that the possibility of self delusion could be at play here.
Remember your evaluating and recommending an expensive product that someone will buy. Your losing credibility with a good portion of your audience and being designated to that weird guy that has bat hearing. There’s is a level of science and absurdity, you need to find common ground.