Do Power Cables Make a Difference? The Results Surprised Me - Blind Testing the Audioquest NRG-Z3
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
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0:00 Start
0:27 Intro
1:58 Sponsored Content
3:45 Can I hear a Difference
4:36 audioquest NRG-Z3
5:44 Bass
7:06 Midrange
9:07 Treble
10:16 Soundstage and Space
11:24 Final Thoughts and Reveal - Zábava
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Hey randy I have a power cable that I made myself from 10 AWG wire that's Cryo dipped, If you would like to A/B it with the audioquest let me know happy to send it to you.
Is this you Randy?
Just got scammed ...
Randy (oh sorry) Mr. Cheapaudioman. You are a great dude and I love listening to all of your work.
It is obvious that you really care about what you do and your sincerity comes through loud and clear.
I don't think that it needs to be done blind at all. Just re-do what you did this time, and then swap the
power cables and then do it again. I'm not worried, I trust you. And I think this would take a lot of the
stress out of it too. You know you got a good enough ear and you understand the framing of how the
music spits out. Try it, you may like it! And it might be really groovy man! Umm okay?
And I know a thing or 2. I am 62 and I have been an audio-foolery for 85 years.
Your mileage may vary.
Dale. (Sorry, I am just a big dork).
Higher quality cables filter noise better.
Nice review. One suggestion, though: it might be worthwhile to run the same test using the stock power cables on both amps to see if the amps themselves sound subtly different. Component tolerances may have a small effect on how each amp sounds.
Different runs of any given product may have different brand components. Look at the difference between opamps. You can order different brands on some equipment.
I second this. For a true double-blind test, each component needs to be swapped, especially the amps as their componentry introduces the largest potential for A/B variables.
That would require a proper abx test. Switching yourself and trying to listen for a difference (like was done in this video) doesn't work. In fact, I don't think there's a difference at all and if you would let someone else select amp A or B and then try to identify which one is playing you would fail.
Just switch power cables, run the test again, and see if the difference follows the cable.
Should be an easy enough thing to figure out. Which is actually a pretty interesting subject, worth some consideration - product variation. Reviewers often only test one unit, and especially if the company provided it directly, the experience could be not the same as when we buy the 'same' product.
The placebo effect is incredibly strong. Do more controlled, blind listening. TOTAL GAME CHANGER. I have told friends I switched cables on them, yet did NOTHING in reality... and they reported changes in bass, soundstage, everything.... yet nothing truly changed.
@@summerforever6736 - Cables are expensive Snake Oil, for elitist snobs, who have cash to throw around.
Don't tell him that I want him to struggle!
Yeah his test was not a blind test. It was more like an A/B test, but without knowledge what A and B are. But yeah, not a blind test.
It's actually NOT a placebo effect but a result of more critical listening and how our brains work. So yes, they actually DO hear differences. Lol. But it's all literally in their head.
@@josephoberlander How do you know it's not placebo? People have been demonstrated to perceive differences that do not exist. BT & DBT eliminates this possibility, and validates that the user is actually hearing a difference and not just imagining it. But yeah, rereading your comment, that's just what's commonly called as 'placebo'.
Yeah, you really need to use the same chain so you account for unit variation. You can't use two different amps even if they're the same model, you have to use one amp, the only thing that should change is the thing you're testing (the power chord).
Don't forget dew point, barometer & ambient temperature.
And day of the week…I’m crabby on mondays and don’t like anything. Lol.
@@bdisaac1 😂 case of the Mondays 😂
True, even 2 excactly same amps can sound wildly different. The only thing you can switch is the powercable or the AB test isnt AB test. I use spesific AB box (passive) to these cable, DAC, amp test. Power cables need to be switched manually to same amp or DAC by someone else tho. From DAC you can use AB box or speaker cables AB box.
He fumbled the hell out of this test. Sigh.
Have you first tested if the amps sounded exactly the same with the same power cord?
Amplifiers do sound different.
This was my issue also. Switch the power cable and do it again.
This, amps are more likely to be affected by production variances.
@@spamcan9208 I thought amps, specially the ones from high end manufacturers would and should sound exactly identical. I'm retired now but way back when I was in the business, I brought the floor model Bryston 4B to a client's house who happened to be a music teacher and audiophile. As expected, it made his Thiel speakers sing in the typical Bryston fashion. I took the demo back and delivered a brand new unit. A week later, I got a call from the client stating this new 4B might not sound quite right, at least not as good as the previous one. I spent the next evening in his living room switching between the two amps. He was right, not that one sounded bad, but audibly different!
@@Arvidien I would imagine that as you go up in price you'll have more consistency and any differences will be subtle.
I think this needs to be ruled out but with class D amps like this there "should" be almost no variation.
Fun test! Thanks for putting in the time! We'll never get tired of A/B comparisons 🙂
As soon as he said amp A was more forward, I knew the AQ would be amp B. Beginners fall into this trap a lot where they think forward means more hifi, but the true hifi sound is when it's a soundstage that's relaxed, natural and thrown behind the speakers
Cables don't make a difference
@@mistafizz5195I found the flat earther
@@mistafizz5195 and all generalizations are usually wrong.
@@bradwaldoch194 you just made a generalization
@@bradwaldoch194 that moment when you make the
generalization that all generalizations are usually wrong
I appreciate that he took the time to do this and his honesty about getting it wrong. Here are some things he could have done to make this a better test:
Run the two cables to a switch and then into one amp. This way you would be using the same amp and interconnect cables. Even if they were the same make and model of amp, manufacturing inconsistencies exist, and the interconnect cables could have different amounts of EMI if they aren’t in exactly the same position. You also wouldn't have to worry about volume matching.
You would need to have someone else switch between the two cables and sometimes not switch at all. It would have to be done outside the listeners field of view (that’s why it’s called a "blind" test) . Not knowing which cable is on which amp isn’t enough because once you formulate ideas about A or B based on one of the tests, you will have biases in future tests when you know that you are listening to the same equipment you heard in previous tests.
You should listen to a fairly large number of sound clips and decide for each one if there is a difference and if so, which you like better. Once you have a large enough sample size, you can calculate the statistical significance of the number of times you accurately identified that there was a change and how consistently you favored one cable.
Nice video, Randy. I think it would be cool if you do a double blind test, using the same chain. One person to set it up, one person to make the switch, and you be the listener.
Only DB testing is reliable. This has been fought over for decades in the woo-saturated world of audiophilia!
Now power cables make a difference? Spare me, please!
It would be a waste of time, money and energy.
Omg that's hilarious. You're doing the Lord's work Randy. Us peasants buying Amazon cables are grateful for your research
It was really a great blind test. Thank you. Unfortunately this kind of tests is very rare on CZcams.
It’s always interesting: people who believe you when you are describing the difference in the sound of gear, suddenly don’t believe you when you are describing the difference in the sound of cables.
Great job!
The difference here is, these cables are not carrying the audio information, they're just power cables!
@@stephenschmid492 ... and the audio coming out of your gear is very dependent on the power they receive.
@@Coyotehello The distance from your receptacle to your audio equipment is not significant to make a difference when taking into account the standard 14 gauge wiring from your mains circuit breaker. From an electrical engineering standpoint this is nonsense.
@@Coyotehello Audio electronic components operate using DC voltage. The incoming power line is AC, which is converted to DC by a component's power supply. So two things have to be true for a power cord to have an effect of significance on the audio you hear: First, the cord has to change the DC output voltage of the power supply in some significant way, and then that DC voltage change has to have an effect on the audio waveforms. If someone can demonstrate that, great, but I find it highly implausible.
I say the exact same thing to people who claim that magic healing crystals and magical healing bracelets do not work. I'm like they do work, I put them on, I'm instantly healed and feel much better, yet they don't believe me... And it's the same people who believe me when I tell them that I own a computer. Go figure!
As others have pointed out, no two electronic components are exactly the same. To validate your impressions, you could’ve swapped amp A with B (all inputs, outputs and power cables) and then see if you still thought the same about amp A vs B. In case the more bass now was in amp A (which was previously hooked up as amp B) then you would know that the amps themselves are more different than the power cables. If however amp B had the more bass also with the swapped cables, then you know that the power cables may have had something to do with it. I suspect the former scenario though, i.e. that the amps are more different than the cables.
If you're right, there's no point buying monoblocks. Or having a stereo system at all.
@@gergelyagoston274 The tolerances depend on the component-quality that the manufacturer has chosen.
On expensive products, those things get matched. In this very specific case I would guess that the Sabaj pair made the difference. Cables are typically only making a difference on a 0.5 db level.
@@toxicparasite3031 I know those were cheap amps, but they're ICE powered class D amps, made in a factory, with QC, not some home soldered tubes, so according to my belief system :) it's the cables. We would never know for sure, I guess.
Level matching is also a thingie.
@@gergelyagoston274 the difference would be very small and likely inaudible but so is the case for the speaker cables. I wouldnt worry about it and i also would absolutely not worry about having different power cable for monoblocks. But if you are doing a blind test you should make sure what causes a difference. In my book its more likely that one of the amps where defective than anyone actually hearing a difference between power cables.
For future blind tests may I recommend.
1. Use one setup, this way everything is the same.
2. Have another person change the tested equipment. That way you don’t know or guess which is which.
3. Have person randomly change, or not change, equipment at each test.
4. on a sheet of paper mark which one you liked and why.
5. Test each song five times on each piece of equipment.
Love the work.
This is hilarious, been on motorcycle forums for years and they're constantly debating the merits of different motor oils, just getting into home audio since purchasing a pair of Magnepan speakers, and the levels of minutia are astounding, keep up the good work
Have you been to the “bob is the oil guy” forum?
Magnepans are fabulous speakers. I started with MMGs over 20 years ago, and now have 1.7is (along with a MGCC and MMG-Ws with DWMs supporting them)
@@philipjanoff535 I have been to "Bob the oil guy" forum, I have a set of 1.7s, using a Schiitt Vidar and a hybrid tube DAC, it's my 1st foray into higher end home audio , I need to decide what to replace my DAC with mine is cheap and not doing my Maggie's any justice
perfect timing.. i was on Audioquest web page looking at power cables.. i went straight to the most expensive.. i thought i better youtube these and see what everyone is saying about these cables.. your video was the first to pop up .. thanks for the info on these ..
This shows that once we make up our mind, our mind tends to gather evidences to support its fixated decision!
However, irrespective of results, its interesting that power cables did make (edit: perceptible) differences in audio!!
Eidt: Am sure two similar cables painted different and priced differently , would also sound, perceptibly , different!
did they?? or it was his brain??
Yeah there’s no proof here that the power cables made any difference at all.
@@endrizoThanks! Edited comment
Yup, those two amps exhibit unit variation as is to be expected from complex electronic devices, especially not very expensive ones. Second failing of your test is that you always knew when you were listening to A or B. This is not the way to perform a double blind test. You could have done that test half properly even with two amps if you had someone swapping (or not) the cables between the amps randomly and then checking out if you could tell cable A from B consistently... People do not realise what a double test entails...
He is doing a blind test, not a double blind test. But I agree with your first statement that the variation in components within the amp is going to be significant.
That was very interesting. Seems like something worth looking into once you have taken care of all the basic changes that make huge differences; placement, room treatment, etc.
For my setup my audio equipment is powered from a power outlet hookup to my Tesla. Nothing beats that setup. If you own a Tesla you must try it.
It is significant to note that differences between power cables were "easy to hear". That is important to note. Whether you like the differences comes down to personal taste. Lastly, these audible differences will also be very system dependent! All these factors contribute to the raging debate about power cords. My advice is to try a few different power cables in your own system, pick the sound YOU like, and forget about what anyone else has to say about it. YOUR ears and YOUR enjoyment are unique and most important to enjoy the music. Peace.
100% everyone's ears are different, their systems are different and their household electricity is different- so it's exactly like you say.
You cannot conclude there is a difference between the two based on this test. You would need an abx blind test.
@@kooijbas This. It's sad when huge audio channels begin to fall deeper into the snake oil rabbit hole. You can usually tell that they want to hear differences and so they do. They won't be doing any proper abx blind testing. All of the Harman research is simply ignored by most folks.
@@kooijbas I didn't watch the video, I'm talking about my own experience with my own ears. Your mileage may vary.
@@willjohnson2722 Your ears can and will deceive you if you know which system you're listening to. You cannot draw a conclusion then.
I use the green dot hospital grade cords. They pop up at the thrift pretty often. Heavy gauge, strain relief plug ends and thick nickel plating on polished terminals. If it's good enough for an EKG machine it's good enough for my audio
Or use the ones in the box. No difference.
i have a Nad 3020i with single no ground power cable , it it better to change it , or leave it alone as it is ?
In general, the higher the quality of components, the more easily differences in sound will be to detect. Cumulative additions can also make a big difference. But for AC driven systems, quality starts at the wall.
Why at the wall? Your plug socket is literally miles away from where the power was generated, its pretty hard to see why the last two meters will significantly effect performance.
@@starofcctv94 well technically clean AC should start at the junction box, where electricity first enters the home. Nothing can be done about the quality of AC delivered to the home. Of course alternatives such as batteries can power equipment independent of the electrical grid.
Thanks for doing this! It's all about having a good time... trying new components, cables, etc... just for fun. This was a super interesting comparison, and I enjoyed the video (and your reaction)! Haters gonna hate, but I appreciate the journey. Keep up the excellent work! 😀
But if it's the case that it makes no difference; that changing the last meter of wire of electricity running through miles of copper wire makes no audible difference... Wouldn't you think people would be better off spending their time, money and energy on real improvements rather than wasting it on snake oil?
@@literalghost929 Arguably, listening to more than a cheap pair of earbuds or music on TV is a waste of time, money, and energy for many people (i.e., snake oil). I'm not here to judge others on what they choose to believe or spend money on.
This is a fun and interesting video. I hope Randy gets 10 million views and can afford a decent holiday for his family because of it. 😀
@@dalethompson1984 Snake oil = selling lies. It's a scam. It's like buying a worthless rock for thousands of dollars, because you've been hoodwinkled into thinking it's a magical healing rock. It's not.
You can buy high quality headphones with quality drivers, high performance. That's not snake oil. When people pay ridiculously overpriced power cords thinking they improve sound, they've been scammed. Clear and simple. They wouldn't be able to tell the difference vs a random $2 PC power cord in a blind test because it makes absolutely no difference.
As everyone knows, the cable that runs from the breaker box to the outlet is just plain old "Romex" and that length of cable is almost going to be much longer (maybe hundreds of feet) than the power cord going from the outlet to the gear. So it seems pretty unlikely that the last meter or 2 would fix much UNLESS.... the sonic difference are coming from stray electromagnetic fields generated by the cable itself. If that's the case, then installing a well shielded cable could make a noticeable difference. That said, there are way too many variables with this test procedure to draw any conclusions.
We don't use Romex in Great Britain.
I totally agree with your observation. I recently went down the wormhole of upgrading my hi-fi system. I did not absolutely need to run another circuit to the room, but it was easy enough since it was close to the breaker box. I had a spool of high quality Carol 4/C 10 AWG stranded wire laying around. I purchased a 500 ft roll to make a shore power cable for my boat. It worked well in conduit for the extra circuit. I used the 4th conductor as a second ground. (why not? couldn't hurt) This circuit is only for the hifi system. It feeds my Paramax M5400 power conditioner. Then out to the amp and sub. Did it make a difference? no clue, and should I buy different power cables for the Amp and Sub, probably not. It sounds great to me as is. But to your point, I find it hard to believe that someone can tell the difference with a different power cord coming out of the wall into your system, without changing the wires that are inside the wall. The same can be applied to speaker wires. I've taken several speakers apart before in my life, and to no surprise, lots of speakers have RadioShack quality wire on the inside of the cabinet. Even a set of $20k PMC speakers I disassembled had some questionable wiring inside of the cabinets. I might pull the trigger on a fancy looking cable just for aesthetics. I'm not saying that all cable discussions are snake oil, because I have heard some improvements with better cables in certain situations. I'll let you know if upgrading my power cables makes a difference being that I replaced all of the wiring all the way back to my breaker box.
First half of your argument makes no sense considering electricity travelling at nearly the speed of light but okay 😂😂😂😂 the sunlight doesn't flick on off as the light travels through space so yeah its just there...
But i agree shielded cables make a huge difference providing your not in a built up area
My friend runs balanced mains in his village little bit hard to distinguish a shielded power cord when your music rooms in the basement just above the ceiling you have 400mm of concrete heavily acoustically treated walls and earthed poles/rods aka gone the full 9 yards
But for better or worse he kept them as who wants a stock power cord hanging out your holo spring dac 😀😂
What about the transition from the outlet to the chord? Isn't it possible the transfer is a potential change. I mean, I can hear jitter, and that's just I'll shaped ones and zeros: I can imagine any changes in power draw 'might' have effects. I'm no electrical expert or course, so defer, but just putting my thoughts out there as I've heard too much differences with cables to just write it all off.
True 😮
Most important thing to me is that admitting to hearing sonic differences in the power cables, regardless of which is "better", clearly means that they affect the sound. I have found the same over several years of making my own cables, IC, power, USB etc.
Whether those differences suit your preference or fit within your value/budget are totally up to you. Most important thing is getting enjoyment from the music anyway.
One of the things I love about the hobby is how everything matters, but at the same time none of this is required to just enjoy music.
Did you swap the power cables between the two amps and do it all over again? The variance is more likely differences in the builds of the amps than it is the power cable.
This.
I'll start by simply applauding your attitude and approach to making the video. It's an interesting start for the test, but there's quite a few other things that could explain the difference perceived.
If I were doing this test I'd now continue and do a few more things. Amps vary per unit so I would need to do it a few times with the power cables attached to both units. Also, I wouldn't trust that Douk unit and would need to test that independent of any other changes. Lastly, I'd have a friend swap the power cords (or just say that he did) several times, including using a stock cord on BOTH units at the same time. Expectation bias is HUGE. It would take at LEAST that amount of fiddling before I would believe that it was the power cable doing something, because as all EEs know, if both cables can transmit the required volts/amps, electronically it is basically impossible for that last 6 feet of power to make an audible difference. Yet there is no doubt people do, so getting to the bottom of WHY that is interests me the most.
The fact that there was so much wrong with the test as others point out and he didn't address the concerns show just how much he cares about his content.
he lost my subscription with this video, totally biased tests...
He is using that junk switching box also. This test is just a mess.
Totally unsubscribed as he had the nerve to even test cables. The benefit of cables and the money spent must never, never, be questioned.
@@cferradolol
Thanks for doing the test. As some have noted, would have been neat to swap the cables, and even use 2 default cords. Amp variation is what I suspect the most, as well as potentially a tiny amount of EMI reduction into interconnects due to better shielding in the fancy power cable. Theres no doubt the audioquest cable is a very high quality build. I just can't see how the last 6 feet of an AC power source can affect the sound, when there's another 50 or so feet of 14/2 nmd90 in the walls.
Hifi will surprise you, sometimes seems to surprise engineers the most. Even top engineers like Paul at PS Audio will say about certain things "it shouldn't make a difference, there's no way it should make a difference, but it does." I think he said this a few days ago about the type of CD reading optical laser or something. Like he said, no way in the world it should matter.... but somehow, it does.
My attitude remains that- everything makes a difference, literally everything. But, is that difference audible in my system, do I like it, prefer it, can I afford it and is it worth the £ for the difference. I use a headphone setup and I've been pretty surprised at what influences the sound, yes, a different fuse in the plug for the preamp clearly changed the sound. No I didn't prefer the fancy fuse! That's another thing, sometimes spending loads of money doesn't sound better to you. And of course sometimes you can't hear the difference in which case it's obvious- the difference isn't worth the £s. Be a sceptic, fine, but be empirical- hearing is believing and it's healthy to have an open mind. Audio and electricity are super weird, and hifi is harnessing that weirdness in super high detail in weird ways so trying to stick to a rigid belief about it, is a bit silly in my opinion.
Also, just for an extra layer on top- the brain and perception. When I moved into my home it was decorated ok so I left most things. On the kitchen floor is vinyl flooring with a square grey print. I hate vinyl flooring. On the bathroom floor is the same vinyl flooring except, that vinyl has a wood pattern print on it. It has the colour of and looks like wood. The floor in the bathroom feels better. I hate vinyl, they're both the same material, but the one in the bathroom feels better because it looks like wood. And I know this clearly- doesn't matter, my brain prefers the same thing because it looks like wood.
I wouldn't call Paul a top engineer. He has plenty of experience in the industry but he's self taught and it's not hard to tell when he's steps outside the reach of his knowledge, which he does at times in his videos. I think it's also been shown by that he's been taught some fairly basic things for his experience level regarding speakers by Chris Brunhaver. I like Paul but while he has knowledge and is a good talker/salesman I don't consider him a top engineer.
@@storkfletcher821 I'd call him one of the top guys in one of the top audio companies in the world and that's good enough for me.
Silver plated speaker cables sound different than regular copper speaker cables, I know because I hear it. Notice that I am not saying that they sound necessarily better
Maybe you need a highish end system to tell the difference, I can’t tell, as I only have one highish end amp at the moment, sold my “cheap” amps
I think what this comes down to is subtle variance in impedance or resistance with the thickness and quality of the copper in the cables. It’s probably suuuuper subtle, but I can see it doing something, as most power cables are built right at the tolerance line.
Yes but also no, it has a lot more to do with the poynting vector and how it's affected when it comes to power and speaker cables. So power is actually extracted from the EM field and not in the cable as such (kind of wild, but actually true, from a physics pov), ohms law and similar is actually derived from Maxwell's field equations and if you check the full field equations (poynting vector is the power derived from the EM field equations) some things regarding electricity is just put on it's head. So the actual geometry of the cable has an effect ie if there is a shield and where the shield is placed, braiding, what isolating material is used etc. The science asylum had a great video on it (his channel is great if you like physics) "Circuit Energy doesn't FLOW the way you THINK!" and he explains how it works way better than I ever could (well, not audio cables but what a poynting vector is). :) (Yes it's actual real physics taught in Uni and not some nutjob just rambling)
I'd wager you're far more likely to hear the 1% and 5% tolerances of the resistors and capacitors than the miniscule difference in a power cable, particularly when it's nowhere near its power rating
It's not that. It's differences in design and shielding that potentially minimize electromagnetic frequencies emitted by AC power cables which can muddy adjacent analog signals.
That said this was a bad test. He was using two different amps and he also clustered a bunch of different potential sources of electromagnetic interference together within close proximity to the devices he was testing.
Ha, you’re all high.
@@callmesceptical9114 I wish!! I actually have worked with EMI/EMF measurements, would much prefer to be high and forget all about Maxwell!! :D
Very challenging and quite interesting situation. I have heard differences in speaker cables, and interconnects, and S/PDIF coax - and frankly, it *seems* like the power cable on the amp would seem to be the "least" likely to affect the sound quality. Obviously - the power cable on the amp *does* affect the sound quality.
Blind A/B testing is great for determining *if* there is a difference, but in my opinion longer term listening to a system with music that you are familiar with, is the best way to judge which is qualitatively better - or which you prefer, at least.
The power cable is the foundation to the whole system and.makes a massive difference(if you go at least three or.more levels up the ladder).
@Neil Blanchard
It's long been proven that trying to hear differences between any two different audio system variables is way less reliable when listening to the sources long term.
The easiest and most reliable way to discern any differences is to take an identical and very short snippet of the program material (1-3 seconds) and instantaneously switch between them with no gaps. The two sources must be perfectly level-matched, and you must not know which device you are listening to at any given time or if it has actually been switched or not, and you need to reliably discern and record or make note of the specific difference correctly AT LEAST 8 out of 10 times, otherwise the results are just pure coincidence and down to chance.
HAHA that is fantastic... maybe it makes a diff in some circumstances... but my tinnitus ears don't need a $3xx power cable. Happy friday folks.
I use a $35 Tripp Lite Heavy Duty Power Cord, 20A, 12AWG (IEC-320-C19 to NEMA 5-20P). This power cable is usually used for connecting large servers to PDUs. I use this cord as a replacement power cable for a high end integrated audio amplifier. This 20 amp cable is very robust and works very well comparable to other products that can cost 10 to 20 times more. It's also a bit difficult to find cables with the C19 socket configuration - outside of cables made for computer equipment.
@cheapaudioman fake account
Hey Randy, it would be interesting to try this with a power cable specifically designed for high current loads (aka amplifiers) like the the Audioquest Monsoon.
How do you design a power cable for high currents? Besides having a cable with bigger cross section?
@@jtkiruna isn't the current in the power cable a fraction of an amp at any normal volume?
I bought a Sith hybrid power cord. It powers my hifi and can also power my bath once filled with water.
🔌🛁😀
Thanks for your helpful information ❤
Thanks for this video. When I did the huge jump from a stock PC all the way up to Audioquest Firebird for my amp not only did I get much more base I got so much more layered tones and one thing that I do not think you mentioned. I just sounded so much more relaxed, meaning it was like a V-8 engine compared to a four cylinder driving up a hill. I also notice that a lot of the harsh brassyness disappeared on MD "Kinda Blue". I draw back is the plug going into the wall is massive and I had to drill a hole in the back of my credenza so I would fit flush to the wall.
You have a vivid imagination that is costing you money.
@@MrsZambezi hahahaha.
@@hank8499 You can laugh all you like, but the joke is on you. Changing a power cable has no effect on the DC that your stuff is powered from.:O)
@@MrsZambezi you may think whatever you like.
@@hank8499 I know what I know. You don't .
In-house power cabling supplying electrical outlets certainly isn't "audiophile." As long as the power cable connecting the amp to the outlet is transferring power correctly, there shouldn't be any differences. Certainly none you could hear. I'd suspect any differences that are audible to be in the amps. Suggest you switch amp A & B power cables and retest. My guess is you won't hear anything different from your first test.
Most likely the quality control of the amps are the reason for any differences. If one power cable had much greater resistance than the other it may cause a difference when drawing high current. But similar gauged wires of the same material should be very close. JMHO
I agree, it's more likely to be a difference between the amps that R was hearing. There is no plausible explanation for a difference in the sound between the cables.
Amazing review here. I did a similar blind test, exact same amplifiers (A&B) matched to the same open baffle full range speakers both 93% efficiency. Music source was John Coltrane Ballads vinyl LP, (1960) using a Technics SL1200 Mk IV paired with a Nagaoka MP500 cartridge, basic RCA cables and 14 AWG speaker cable to keep the connections even across the board. So OEM power cables on both amps (A&B), my anechoic test differences were amazing. I listened to AMP A just after dining on fresh caught gulf shrimp cocktail and grilled Gulfport oysters drizzled with butter and garlic sauce. AMP A sound was robust, pure, analytical, non-forceful, tight bass with amazing hi-end sparkle. For AMP B I had dined on a Mackers double cheese, no onion with medium fries and a chocolate shake. AMP B sound displayed a non-coherent bass authority conveyed a slightly choked midrange around 2 KHz, anemic sound dominated the hi-end reminiscent of my old blown speakers from my high school days with delaminated vinyl veneer peeling from the corner, bubbling towards the center of the MDF panels. Not good.
Very interesting and I appreciate the video! A question, was that how you conducted the listening test? Leaning in from the chair? It didn't look like the sweet spot, where you best hear/view the soundstage. But then again, I wouldn't really know as I didn't see the overall layout with speakers, room treatment, distances etc... Just something I thought of.
It should also be conducted in mono, listening to just one speaker.
nice! Now try running 10awg wire dedicated AC circuit(s) on single pole breakers (preferably a 20A breaker but 15A works ok too) and A/B that. That’s where it counts! I have dedicated 10awg circuits for each component and it made a very noticeable improvement. Make sure these breakers are connected on the same phase in breaker panel. I use generic style power cables but they are 14awg vs the 18awg wires that typically come with gear.
I also used 10awg on my dedicated 20a lines. I was surprised how much better my setup sounds when I switched over
@@MrBonger88 I know right. I wish I had known sooner. Anyone looking for hifi sound needs to do this before upgrading gear IMO
You’re all kidding right?
@@callmesceptical9114 Not at all. It’s not about current or voltage, it’s all about less resistance in the wire. And no interference from other devices on the same circuit. I have always known about the benefits of decimated circuits but recently learned about upsizing the wire to 10awg 1-40 feet, 8 awg 40-60 foot run, 6 awg wire 60+ feet.
@@callmesceptical9114 Yes, they are either kidding or mistaken.
Randy! Thank you for sharing! It’s an interesting topic, and I have trusted your insight for long time! We all know that so many people come here to tell everyone else what YOU heard and what they SHOULD think.
Thank you for taking time to tell us what you heard, regardless of the haters.
*what he thought he heard
The mind is a powerful thing when it comes to listening to things that are the same :)
Really interesting Randy, thanks. I recently got Russ Andrew’s yello cables. (I live in the uk) I found a similar effect except the cables made the bass overwhelming and generally unbalanced the sound…..however after a few weeks this changed significantly and the sound is much more balanced now, so always consider that even power cables need time to burn in and settle down…..don’t throw things at me!
You're brave to speak about cable break-in in these parts, stay safe 😉
Have you seriously considered other causes for the effect you observed?
Thanks a ton
The presentation and the suprise was lovely too
@cheapaudioman fake account
This was quite a thoughtful and well-presented video on the matter.
As a rule regarding my own kit, I use the provided power cables which are connected to a power conditioner, which for me is more than fine. If the power cords go bad I replace them with a basic yet reasonbly well-made & well reviewed equivalent in the approximate $30-$40 range at the most.
The very idea that a company would charge $350 for a single power cable, to me, is silly. I've often wondered how thin the line exists with respect to experiencing a difference/improvement and wanting to experience a difference/improvement.
The subject matter though interesting, can, in my opinion, create a landscape of over-thinking in which the hobby becomes more about the equipment than the simple enterprise of enjoying what you have, by focusing on the music itself. Therefore I see the topic as something that is both informative yet also cautionary at the same time.
Steve Guttenberg touched on this subject a time or two regarding if one's focus is about the music or is it more about the gear.
However, if one is perfectly willing who also possesses the resources & time to pursue such an endeavor regarding high-end power cables, then by all means spend away and compare, it's not my time or money being spent. It's not for me to determine how another's ears work.
I can only trust my own perspective that my own ears will allow.
So short answer is that cables do matter but not always in the way you think. My hifi retailer once told me to look at cables as a way to EQ your equipment. Sounds like good advice as long as you know what each cable sounds like. Thanks for doing the research Randy!
That's crap, Tony.
@@bigmike5785 maybe. However I don’t think he meant EQ like DSP would. He mentioned it as a way to trim the highs on a pair of B&Ws by using a “warmer” sounding speaker cable without investing in entirely new source equipment.
I personally would never take advice from that salesman again after that..but that's just my opinion
Then why bother swapping out a bunch of expensive cables when you could achieve far better results by using a simple EQ?
@@AmbientWanderer great question and that is what is cool about this hobby. There is always more than one way to achieve great sound. Depending how much tweaking you want to do or how much coin you are willing to shell out.
I watch your videos sometimes with CC on while I listen to music. At the end of your video when you said "bye for now", CC translated it to "buy foreign", I had a good laugh over that one
When I saw the caption of this video I had a hunch of what the result was going to be, only because the exact same thing happened to me when I tried a few different power cables 😂
How about doing the test with stock power cables on both amps? If you get similar results to the test you performed, that points to differences somewhere else in the signal chain. I'd be suspicious of the speaker switching box in that the resistance of each set of contacts might vary over the frequency spectrum. Is there a possibility that left and right speaker wiring was out of phase for amp A, which could account for less bass on A than on B?
A true blind test would be if you didn't even know if Amp A or Amp B were playing. Have someone else randomly play the part not even knowing what amp it was playing from. The bias already comes in when you know that it's A or B, regardless of the cable.
@cheapaudioman fake account
Wrong
This was an interesting test. I am a skeptic when it comes to cables making a difference in the sound. Particularly power cables. The amps have power supplies and transformers inline before the rest of the electronics. This would negate any difference in impedance or slight differences in voltage in the cables. My guess is there may be slight differences in the two amplifiers. It's possible there may be a slight difference in the switching box. Would be interesting to simply switch the cables with the current setup and see if the sound difference switches from a to b. Keep up the good work. I know any discussion on cables and their effect on sound gets people riled up on both sides...
I bought an inexpensive "audiophile" power cable to see for myself and I thought the difference was easy to hear. My wife who was unaware asked me if I changed something. So yes it made an audible difference - in this specific case. I swapped the cable into the sub and sure enough, it sounded better (OMG psycho acoustics etc!!). So I bought a second cable and wired the amp and sub up. Total spend under $100 dollars. The downside is the rigidity of the cables means your cable management has to be just so, in order not to load up the socket.
Thanks for taking time to try and share your experience.
Expensive cables are the worst kind of audio snake oil. Even the blurb on the product description makes no sense at all - "Semi-Solid Concentric conductor arrangement reduces strand interaction distortion". Or how about "low DC resistance and zero characteristic impedance help deliver uncompressed transients on demand" ? It's hilarious.
Great job!! But I believe you would find differences between the two exact amps. Each amp has different electrical pieces that are more or less within spec. One of them may be better than the other. But loved this!! Keep killing it brother. BTW, I will say it again. The Cheap Audioman playlist is the best EVER!!!❤❤
I say "great job" too. I enjoy this channel. Bill, I believe you are correct.
Swapping the Amps would eliminate any differences caused by the amps.
I used to have the best of the best back in the 80's until my hearing got really bad.
100%. With all components tolerances, he just a/b tested the amps.
Glad i put my system together spring 2021 before the global price hikes! Got my 1 meter NRG-Z3 for 199. Its 249 now BUT if you are purchasing in store i recommend haggling on price. For instance i got 1 meter of AudioQuest Red River interconnect for 110 while it was priced 180 no sale i just told the guy at store im interested in some AudioQuest products but absolutely wont pay MSRP. The mark up is so ridiculous they could sell all their product for 50 percent off and probably still be making a killing. So i really like after market cables mostly just cause they look cool haha any actual improvement is just a bonus for me. Other than that its just construction and looks. Now i just need to decide if i want to get an NRG-Y3 for my CD player or get a Monsoon for my integrated and move the Z3 to the CD player. Thing is the NRG-Z3 is 14 gauge so its probably more than most people would ever need, like its already probably overkill for my Marantz PM6006 but like ive mentioned i like the looks lol
I would suggest going with the best cable you can fit into your budget. It is going to bring the entire system up at least one or two notches. If your amp then becomes the weak link in your system then when you upgrade the amp you will have a well matched system with the power cable imho.
Wait. What. I gotta watch this again...
That was great! 👍👍👍
Aren't you assuming that the amps are completely identical? I think it is more likely that the difference is in the amps than in the cable. You might try swapping the cables and testing again.
Any chance the amps weren't exactly the same? There will be variations - certainly more likely than a cable.
I would have asked that you swap the power cables and find out if the noted differences followed the power cable.
@@whollymindless This was my thought
Great review, I like the "live" blind testing. Curious if the difference come from the gauge of wire inside the cable? If it has a bigger gauge wire allowing for just a hair more power for those hard to drive bass notes. Either way, it just goes to proof of diminishing returns.
That’s what I’m thinking too. If the AQ allows a bit more current allowing more drive to the bass, that can lead to a more “natural” sounding balance. The stock cord seemed more forward / pronounced in the highs by comparison, but would suspect if plotted it wasn’t actually tilted up in the highs, just perceived to be with a slight absence of bass. 🤷♂️
Back in the 90s, I was pretty big into hifi and went down many rabbit holes, apart from spending silly money on power cables. Then, for one reason or another, I got out of the whole hifi thing.
For the past 15 years, I’ve been fully invested in Sonos gear, until Wiim caught my eye.
Now I’m watching CZcams reviews and comparisons of hifi/audiophile gear and people are still debating the differences between power, hdmi & optical cables. 😂
Crazy 🤪
did you ask someone to randomly swap the cable at least 10 times to check your sure the differences you heard remained attached to the same cable ? it is vastely more likely you picked up unit variation in one or a combination of the many component in the amps instead of the power cable+ac plugs.
There is a physiological component to sound reproduction. If you pay $250 for a power cable it going to sound good or improved, whether it does or not.
Thanks for this blind test. I have done blind tests with beer, and audio equipment, and the results are always very eye opening.
A couple of years ago, a buddy convinced me to buy some $125 a pair speaker cables. I was sure I would feel like a fool when I listened to them, being a “cables make a difference doubter”. I like the expensive cables better, although it was impossible to quantify the differences. At least I didn’t feel like a fool.
@cheapaudioman fake account
I had a similar experience doing a blind test of interconnects, comparing stock RCAs to my own, expensive Monster RCAs. I found the same effects that you were describing. More forward in the stock, which sometimes sounded bigger, but more bass in the Monsters. As you said, it's hard to say which one you like better. It can depend on a mixture of gear and track mixing. Whether it is worth it to hear the change and whether you like the change is totally up to you. Definitely well finished products.
Interesting point. While power cables will make 0 measurable or audible impact on sound if they're working properly, 'high end' (snake oil) cable manufacturers often sell 'broken' cables at exorbitant price; An interconnect with high resistance (worse cable) can have an effect on the signal (ex; reduced high frequencies). So ironically, cheaper cables would be the superior cable objectively, though subjectively, some might still prefer the sound of the inferior cable. Bit like shorter cables = better. But someone might enjoy degrading the signal by running dozens of meters of wire. Such is the world of audiophiles! LOL
@@literalghost929 Personally, I'd rather listen to the system that pleases my ears than the system that measures perfectly. Who needs a 'superior' cable when it sounds worse?
@@bashaenraets9156 except it can't really sound worse can it? Job of a cable is to transmit a signal, and how good/bad a job it does is determined by how accurately it performs the task. So a cable which skews the signal is objectively worse. If you want to skew the FR & others, you should do it via EQ, not cables.
Yes, monster cables tend to give more bass to the sound, you are correct. I have done tests, with cheaper and more expensive cables than Monster, monster always has a little more bass
I don't know. The power from the transformer to your house is many hundreds of feet. Then from your breakers it goes through dozens of feet of house wiring. Why would the last 3 feet make a difference?
Other than adjusting for volume, did you run the amps through the same tests with the same power cords? With no experience, my common sense would think that all amps will have sonic variations even when level matched.
I didn't do the test, so just my thoughts
The mains are susceptible to RFI and EMI .
I love a good cable controversy video!
I use audioquest nrg z3 for my Hegel h190 it also shocked me sounds smoother more natural. Better bass. As hole it was an improvment. Campered to stock cable
Good information - Thank You
Eh, firstly the channel reviews more and more expensive gear. Now we're delving into audiofoolery. Next, everybody bust out their green sharpies to scribe the edge of their CD's
I thought the main benefit of good power cables was to minimise their interference with your other low voltage cables (connects, speaker)
The truth is that how you route your cables and deal with issues like ground loops is orders of magnitude more critical than the insulation on your power cords.
No Snake Oil here... I once took my amp to my local power station and plugged it directly into the distribution bus-bar. Man I tell you, the difference was immediately obvious! The bass was nore punchy and the soundstage really opened up.
I dont advise doing this unless you're a qualified Engineer, but I guess Audioquest found a way to bring the sub-station closer to your home for only $300.00👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽💯🙏🏽
So a totally different environment was used for critical listening comparison? Or this was a headphone amp?
@@WildernessMusic_GentleSerene I think you missed the sarcasm
@@stephenschmid492 Yes I did. There are so many CZcams audio people who don't understand anything about audio. There was a CZcams digital piano reviewer who recorded speakers with a microphone so we could hear what they sounded like. I attempted to explain this is impossible, but he still just doesn't get it. And still posts videos as stupid as these. I guess I have been in the music business too long :)
This is untrue.
I spent some time in studios the big thing about cables is few studios are spending that kind of money on cables, but what we did do was power conditioning even a cheaper conditioners will make a huge difference in lowering the Nosie floor for a cost to benefit ratio. It is crazy to think that if you wanted to use audio quest cables for the main studio with 80+ rack mounted pres and what not they would be spending tens of thousands just in power cables.
not saying cables don't do anything but bang for buck power conditioning is were it is at. Plus also provides extra protection for what can be very pricy electronics.
I think many of us that have been in studios or that have set up live performances share that opinion. I've been using a Furman power conditioners for years and they work great. Certainly more of a positive effect than any power cable I've tried. That said, I've tried a few other conditioners under ~$200 and they don't work as well.
@@terrywho22 kinda agree maybe they have just gotten cheaper but I got a $60usd Pyle that made a really big difference for the price but I use that for my PC and got a audio quest PQ2 for around $230 usd
Have you considered running a null test using a single source into both amps that feed into a single speaker? This would be an objective method to hear any differences between the amps. It should also be run using the standard cables on both amps to see if the amps themselves have any variation in their outputs.
Why would you play into only one speaker and cancel out all differences a cable makes to soundstage and imaging?
@@flashhog01 A null test is used to objectively detect any output differences between two amplifiers. Correctly set up, the single speaker will only playback the audio of the differences in the output of both amps. You would start off doing a null test with both amps using the stock power cables. If you hear sound from the speaker, stop there as the amps outputs are not identical so any potential sound differences could be from the amp itself. If there is silence from the speaker, then the output of both amps is identical and you can proceed onto repeating the test with one amp using the stock power cable and the high end cable into the other amp. This time, if no sound is heard, the cable is having no effect. If sound is heard, then the cable does change the sound output of the amp. Whether or not it is improving the sound is now up to subjective listening tests of music in a normal stereo setup. Basically you need to first determine there is a difference before spending time looking for what effect that difference makes. It is really easy to deceive ourselves when listening for subtle differences in sound, especially when there is no actual differences in reality. Note: It was a null test that Bob Carver used when, in the mid 80s, he challenged two high-end audio magazines to give him any audio amplifier at any price, and he’d duplicate its sound in one of his lower cost designs. He succeeded both times. Google The Carver Challenge Stereophile
Need to double blind the test and bring in one of your children to see if they can hear a difference. Don't tell them what you're testing though.
This.
A great start, Randy. Now you need to wire your system back to the power station with Audioquest! The difference will be amazing...
Thanks again for another great, but not so "cheap," video :-)
For those on a budget, perhaps just as far back as the local transformer substation?
@@TheNemorosa lol! Perhaps a Tesla Wall?
I heard a difference when I switched my stock power cables on my Marantz receiver with a hospital-grade power cord, based on the advice of a forum. The sound was more relaxed and easier to listen to though it never changed the essential nature of what the Marantz sounded like. It cost me like $30. A good investment in this case.
Much respect. I didn't put much stock in cables making a huge difference, and my takeaway from this is that perhaps, once other variables are dialed in, it is worth getting better-built cables, if you prefer the difference they make in the sound. Probably still more prudent, if you're looking for the most effective use of a limited budget to 1) Get a set of speakers or headphones that you really like, 2) Make sure you have quality recordings you enjoy, and 3) Get a source that seems like it will do the trick. After those things are considered, to whatever budget works, then go for decent cables, and at that, it seems like the margin of utility diminishes considerably before getting to Audioquest-level expenditures.
Yes i think they matter,would i go spend $1200 or more on a power cord NO. I think that doing a "hospital" (green dot) cord makes a difference but at some point past that, the return/performance for value, takes a nose dive after that and is not appreciable enough to be worth while. I think the money would be better spent on upgrading the caps etc in your amp/gear. One thing past this though,that i have NOT messed with but... mean to one day, as i find it interesting, is the audiophile wall power "outlet" itself? That also seems like to some degree a worthwhile investment, i mean... how "good" could a regular .89 cent outlet be🤔
What a pain to do. The results from any sort of test like this are always interesting and for various reasons as well. Thank you for taking the time and effort to do it. The best test for getting an unbiased and accurate result would be, having someone swapping the power cable only ( and sometimes not swapping) and keeping the rest of the items the same whilst you are blindfolded. If you can tell 9 out of 10 times the difference, there should be little to no doubt of the result.
@cheapaudioman SCAM ALERT - this guy is trying to pretend hes you
That looked like fun. It was entertaining to watch as always …….thanks
Just my experience with cables. I switched to an OCC usb, Mogami cables, and some thick OFC custom power cables. With the cheap cables all songs were sharp and made me go wow but now with the new cables the song legitimately needs to be produced very well for the system to give that wow factor.
The fact that you know which amp is selected (even if you don't know which brand of cable is in play) makes this test invalid. You need another person to make the switch, so they could select the same amp two or three times in a row and you would have no knowledge of which amp was in-play. Only then, if your results were consistent beyond a statistical probability could a meaningful conclusion be drawn. As it is, by knowing what position the switch is in, you have a bias.
Thanks for test
I'm renting a house with poor electrical systems (old, faulty outlets and things of that sort). My KRK Rokit 5s make a lot of passive noise before any signal is sent to them, do you think improved power cables into the monitors themselves will affect noise or sound quality?
😂😂😂 Brilliant! Yet again, it's not about the money. Thank you for going through all that- setting up your components. You're the hardest working audio CZcamsr for sure. 👍
I just upgraded my speakers and the detail is great but now poor recordings sound really poor. I kinda prefer my old cheapos to a degree, warmer sounding at least.
It's always funny to watch people try to explain why power cables make a difference. 😂
Exactly. It's all about mass. Gosh, my 100 wpc amp sounds like junk... maybe the 18 gauge lamp cord isn't cutting it. Go to 12 gauge though, and look - it works better. Who would have guessed? This is also true of DC power supplies and audio cables - larger is generally better as it gives you more capacity and less losses over distance. Price is not a factor as long as it meets the required build spec/isn't a defective $10 design from overseas.
It's simple those that don't believe there is a difference have never tested and blindly believe they are right..but you have to test like you did and flick from one to the other quite quickly, this way I have done and know things sound Different with cables, whether speaker, power or interconnects, now, are they better . NO, they are just different and when you go to get a coffee and come back you have already forgotten the difference anyway..
So blind testing this quick shows a difference, but the next day you would never remember what cable you left in.
This is the correct answer. 👍
No surprise there. The only value better power cables provide is attenuating noise, and that explains the less forward midrange and your comments about the high end with the quieter cable. Added noise does just the kinds of things you described, and a little extra "bright" from noise hides the bass, which explains that observation as well. (It's not just noise, there is intermodulation distortion and problems for digital components that power supply noise causes). Thanks for doing this.
Do they make a power cord that goes all the way to the power company so you can bypass all the wires in your house and all the highline wires back to the substation 🤣🤣🤣🤣
This argument is analogous to a water filter at the end of miles of pipes not making a difference. It’s about cleaning up noise. The measurements are available if that’s what you need in order to be convinced. Of course, you could just listen for yourself.
@michaellichnovsky8397 no its not, it's like changing the last 3 feet of pipe and expecting it to make a difference in the water coming from the water company.
@@michaellichnovsky8397 if you need to clean something with your cable which change something…..put your amplifier/DAC/etc….in your dash. All necessary filters are included in electronics. It is really a simple filter that any electronic engineer learn at school. The only thing that could help is replace your power source by a set of battery to ensure a constant power.
@michaellichnovsky8397 no, its like changing the last few inches of pipe before going into your house. If you need cleaning you have a water filter in your house. And guess what amps have!?
This wasnt a blind test either as it seems he knew when A or B was playing. His brain can just think it hears a difference and viola, it will be so.
I think to be clear the power cable cannot remove noise. It's construction can prevent the addition of more noise. Look there are places and I used to own one where the power supply is just not clean., changing the power cord is not going to help, ok it's not going to introduce additional noise granted. One last note for any one who doesn't understand a little knowledge of electrical is dangerous, and sometimes noise cancels itself out,hence the benefit of balanced connections.
No need to test power cables. They have no effect on performance.
The Audio Quest cable only accounts for the last meter or two. Is one going to replace all the house wiring in the walls and utility power distribution? Why not generate your own power with an inverter and dedicated power cord and bypass the utility company? I really don't see how this audio Quest cable can make a difference given the complete power distribution path.
The sole reason I replaced the power cables that came with my audio equipment is build quality. I love the Audioquest NRG range (X though, as I'm not made of money) because they're engineered and built to last forever. Do they make a difference to the sound? Nah, not in my set-up, nor did I expect them to or hope they would - they just fit better.
With all due respect, any and ALL differences you might be hearing are due to variations between the "identical" amps/speakers/sources. The power cord will make precisely zero difference. The only valid way to test cords is to leave *everything else* totally unchanged. Yes, you'd need a Y-cable "splitter" for the power input, but any *differences* would still be apparent. Don't bother though - I guarantee you won't hear a difference.
I’d be curious to see the results of a similar study but with a different power cable manufacturer- like Shunyata or Crystal Cable. I personally use Crystal Cable and the difference on my system is dramatic. I have heard that Shunyata cables are even better
I would hope you gave the AQ 200 hours of burn in. I'm no fan of AQ cables, but they do need time to bed in, otherwise they are stringent & lean. Fun video.
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Thanks for doing this and reporting on it. Please don't be discouraged by the "you did it wrong" comments. Many of us really appreciate you doing this. Cheers!