The Power Cable Showdown!
Vložit
- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- I review the Audioquest NRG Z3 and GR Research B24 power cables. If that's your thing, you've found your place. Welcome to the Vinyl Attack!
0:00 - Intro
3:16 - When to Buy Cables?
5:19 - The Z3 Overview
6:49 - The B24 Overview
8:15 - Sonic Differences?
9:20 - The B24 Sound
10:42 - The Z3 Sound
11:42 - Let's Measure Them!
16:04 - My Overall Rating
Follow me:
Patreon - / thevinylattack
Facebook - / thevinylattack
Insta - / thevinylattack
Shop - www.thevinylattack.com
Email - thevinylattack@gmail.com
Need to send me something?
The Vinyl Attack!
P.O. Box 484
Garden City, MI 48136
USA - Hudba
You are right about the power cable. I removed it, and the amp did not work at all. It is a necessary component.
See? Problem solved.
😂
I use green dot hospital grade power cable in my system. I'm not sure if it improves the quality but if it's good enough to keep people alive it should be good enough for audio equipment.
Hospital grade plugs and outlets focus on grip strength to make accidentally disconnecting equipment from the wall more difficult. It has absolutely nothing to do with quality of conductors and materials used. This is no way translates to audio performance. Your logic is faulty.
@Z. S. My turntable is still spinning so I'm happy with them.
@@z.s.9855 a good solid connection is a step in the right direction
@@z.s.9855 Your manners are faulty...
@@adamhunt4462 👍
GR-Research does not have any regulator safety standards for the cable. The female IEC terminal has CE listing but the male end just says 15 amp/120 volt. Even if the latter was UL certified, the whole cable is not. So use it at your own risk! (taken from AudioScienceReview review).
I think implying that the cord isn't safe because it doesn't have a listing you'd like to see is a bit much.
@@thevinylattack I’ll add, no major retailer would carry a non-certified electrical product. It’s not legally required to have certification, but when a certified power plug already comes with your hi-fi product why would any rational person risk replacing it with a non-certified product?
@@thevinylattack how difficult would it be for the manufacturer to get the certification, I think the point is that all consumer products should have a safety certification, and I think the point valid to present .
@@scientificaudiophile Perhaps because there is no risk, just no label. Or, at least, not a label that satisfies your need.
@@richardelliott8352 I think there's a difference between someone thinking the cord should have a certification, and claiming that it might be unsafe.
Sorry I missed this video when it came out.
I learned early in my audiophile journey that good speaker cables sound better than cheap ones, even on a starter audiophile system. But it never occurred to me that power cables would make a difference.
Five years ago, when shopping for a (for me) high-end integrated amp, the owner of my local hifi shop did an A/B test for me between (A) stock power cable and no power conditioner, and (B) the Z3 cable plus a $300 Audioquest power conditioner. I heard the difference right away, and I couldn't unhear it. He said he'd throw in the cable & power conditioner if I bought the amp. After auditioniing a few other amps at other shops, I took him up on his offer.
At home, after a week of breaking in the new amp, I listened with and without the Audioquest cable & conditioner. Though not a blind test this time, I still heard the difference and was happy to have them.
That said, my experience was similar to yours: the differences while undeniable were subtle. I'm sure the expense would be wasted on a less resolving system.
Incidentally, the amp I'm talking about is a Moon 340i, similar price point & performance as Naim Supernait 2/3 but different sound profile that I prefer over the Naim sound. (The Naim's are great, tho, and I can see why so many people love them.)
Thanks for such a thorough and well-done video!
Thanks for sharing your story.
Always enjoy your video’s Chris. But I think I’ll keep my $350 bucks. Do you know how many Costco rotisserie chicken I can buy for 350 bucks. Listening to music and eating some chicken sounds pretty good to me buddy
I'd pass on that chicken though. Yuck.
Thank you Vinyl Attack, finally a decent explanation...........I have 2 degrees in music, studied piano, violin, viola and a guitarist for 60 years......yes I am 69......into audio since 1979......I have a SACDr from T+A an germany company and an integrated amp 75 watt/channel by Audio Research.........both of these total retail is more than 20K.........not chump change agreed..........I went thru coincident cables interconnects and speaker cable, then Van den Hul which I hated then Cardas....very very nice.........recently my buddy brought over his PK14 cable (for CD only) from Kimber Kable......it was broken in and was stunning...........now I have ordered their PK 10 made for amps........my point is this, does it make send that world class equipment would sound at it's best with world class cables? If you are looking for a huge sound stage, beautiful musical tone, deep quick low end response then please keep this as your priority not the fact that you think you are being ripped off...........If you are used to eating McDonalds you are going to have to step up and listen and read and do what you can to get the sound you want..........that is what set Audiophiles apart.....we just don't throw away money just the opposite..... we are very discerning about what we need and like and sometimes it costs, sometimes not..........how about a demo with a guarantee or a 2 year old model of a cable?..........cables don't rust..............350 for a power cable is a handshake and you will probably not hear any difference especially with mediocre eqipment......
About the "8-gauge" confusion:
The 8-gauge refers to the combined gauge of the 24 smaller wires which are separated by color & then twisted together to create a large positive (12x clear wires) and negative (12x white wires) each of which are roughly equivalent to a single 8-gauge cable.
The separate ground wire inside the rope is 14 gauge.
Thank you for the clarification.
Which in it'self is dangerous. The ground wire should be at least the same cross-sectional area as the live conductors in order to manage any fault current.
Great comparison as these are two power cords I had considered in the past. The GR Research for its perceived value, and the AudioQuest Z3 because it has so many positive reviews and is the recommended cable at its price point from Upscale Audio. Ultimately, I hooked up all my equipment with Cardas Clear Reflection because that is what I was already using for speaker and interconnects. I’m super happier with these cables and it will be a long time before I consider replacing them.
If you're happy, I'd say that cable replacement should definitely be the last thing you're considering.
That was interesting. The debate on cable is truly fascinating.
This week i had a hum problem which turned out to be due to poor ground on one outlet on a power strip, must get a new one.
I do believe the biggest improvements can be made with the interconnecting leads..
Especially with poor fitting plugs and enough length to get to New Zealand.
One tip I might impart, most outlet plugs have a flimsy breaker tab that connects both terminals of the plug. Break that thing off and just strip your wire to terminate on both terminals at the same time. Other than this, a dedicated circuit with good grounding.
Great video! I can also hear an improvement, I’m a z3 user!
I quite like that cable.
Cables - power, interconnects, speaker - are an integral part of a nice hifi system. Beware of price though. Cables are high profit items for dealers.
Very true.
💯
Not when u buy em direct from China.. They r 5% 10%of the price thru Western dealers... My Audioquest Comet speakers cable 110 GBP.. Ten years ago this cabless in West 3000 GBP.. I kid u not.. The Chinese clone is xcellent build and sq
Great review…makes me wonder how the IFI power cables compare to the AQ…
I replaced the power cable on my TV and it went from 1080p to 4k upon turning back on... ok J/K. 😄
terrific review!
Thank you.
Have you experimented with having a directly wired outlet for you audio system. Running from a dedicated breaker in the box to only the dedicated plug? I have heard this is very helpful and the place to start before power cables. Your thoughts?
I found more improvement with a dedicated circuit to my audio rig, than my upgraded power cables. A dedicated circuit is a must before any cable upgrade.
I haven't, but it is on my wishlist.
I'VE DONE IT PAUL 3MTR RUN TO MY HI FI... I CAN ABSOLUTELY SAY IT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENS.. THE 15MTR OF CABLE IN MY WALL FUCKS THE SOUND UP. DO IT PAUL AND THANK ME
Does anybody have the Audioquest NRG-Y3 & NRG-X2?
I purchased a few and they have just been shipped to me.
I'm going to take a good listen to them & have 30 days to return them if I don't hear any sonic improvements over the stock power cords that they would be replacing.
I have no idea how the NRG-Y3s compare to the X3s.
Well how did it go. Did you notice a difference or did you return them or are you still using them?
Looking forward to your H390 review!
Me too.
Use whatever cables you have lying around.
Certainly. Unless you'd like to try and upgrade and find sonic improvements. Whatever suits you best.
@@thevinylattack Power cables don't affect sound.
@@MrsZambezi They absolutely do.
How is it all of a sudden integrated amps are fine and dandy when a few years back they were just another source for unwanted noise. What's change if anything ?
I've never felt integrated amps were a problem. Can separate power and pre-amps create a cleaner signal? I'd say yes. But that doesn't make an integrated amp bad.
I wonder how these two power chords compare to a 14awg Hospital Grade Iron Lung Jelly fish preferably 3Ft.
What's the use of using a 6ft length "audiophile grade" (whatever that means) power cord from the wall socket to your amp?
Are you going to replace all the twin & earth power cables inside your walls too? What about the circuit breaker board in your home, is that audiophile grade too? What about the miles of powerlines between your house and the power station?
Using a quality power cable is akin to using a water filter. It takes the source and smooths it out, making it better.
@@thevinylattack A power cable IS NOT a filter of any sort. Stop peddeling this nonsense.
@@listeningto8371 It absolutely is. Go learn something.
Directional copper? That's pretty funny! Don't understand how it is even a topic.
Alternating current (AC) flows both ways, back and forth. The first circuit it sees is rectification, converted to Direct current and good filtering for any well-designed component. Yes, the high-end cable industry is full of snake oil.
People have been touting the directionality of metals for years. I never quite got it either.
The designer of Clayton M-300 monoblock amplifiers, (msrp is $17,000 for a maxed out pair) says his favorite power cord is something that he charged me $50 for two 6' long pieces. In the current system these amps w/ the el cheapo power cables straight from the wall perform so well that I haven't been tempted to try other more expensive cables that I have laying around. I don't know if others have had a similar experience w/ fairly modest power cables on large powerful class A amplifiers.
If you have a system that's working for you, you're already ahead of the game.
Thanks!
For whatever reason, the commonly referred to "Grado Hum" crept into my mind while you were discussing the differences in these cables
The only reason I was able to score some, what I THINK are nice, power cables is because of some members at the Steve Hoffman Forums kindly offering some really nice deals. I was able to get what I believe is about a $400 power cord (something I would never really be able to afford) for about $125. It is a Black Sand Violet MKII. It sure looks nice! 😊 It was going to my Ayon Orion II Class 'A' integrated tube amp, but since it is currently ailing it is now going to my recently acquired Cronus Magnum III integrated tube amp. Seems to sound really good! I also was able to pick up a Core Power Gold power cord from the fellow who actually designed it, also for around $100. It goes to my Crown 2502 which is biamped with my Cronus and runs the 2-15" dipole woofers. Both seem to sound very good and appear to be very solidly made.
BTW, FWIW, I'm not surprised that the GR Research cable wasn't quite up to the others. The fellow seems very pleasant, and I know you enjoyed your visit there, especially with the tinkertoy cable lifts 😁 But, honestly, he just strikes me as basically a salesman. And, especially with the esoteric qualities of cables, I wouldn't really expect him to be super proficient in that area. Personally, I think instead of the GR Research cable, I believe it would have been better to choose one of the more commonly used high grade cables. The AQ is fine, but there are SO many really well known power cable providers that I think that would have been better. But, still, a great review and apparently a LOT of work! Thanks for all the effort Bro! 👍
Well there has to be something to this, I went from my own sad attempt at building cables to a minor upgrade in the Svs speaker cables and there was a marked difference. Mids and highs come through cleaner sounding and more clear.
There's certainly something to it, but be careful saying that online. The trolls are everywhere.
Seeing the credits at the beginning, does The Cheap Audioman help produce your videos?
Those are some of my valued Patrons that support this show. Randy is one of them, yes.
@@thevinylattack Gotcha. That's cool, thanks!
The amplifiers you mentioned here have a commonality. Both use what is essentially 40 year old amp technology, as such the amount of noise filtering between the incoming power and speaker outputs is not as comprehensive as what is used in more modern amplifier designs. Both line noise and cable capacitance can have a bigger impact in these less filtered designs.
A bit of the background that informs my comments:
I have been an audio engineer for 40+ years doing both live shows and fixed installations. I have had to deal with chasing noise in systems that sometimes came down to how excess power cable was coiled and its proximity to other cables. These kinds of issues have become less of a problem with new amplifier technology because the amp's power supply section employs very solid EMI filtering.
It ain't rock n roll without 60 cycle hum!
Given the option, I'll leave the hum and just take the rock n' roll.
Thanks for this very informative video.
I own a mid to
high end audio system. I recently had my listening room acoustically treated by the pros at RealTraps.
My speaker cables are mid-high end Audioquest as are my amplification Interconnects.
Now, I am in the process of upgrading my power cords.
I bought a few 'open box' Audioquest Blizzards, a few NRG-X2s & NRG-Y3s power cords.
One of the Blizzards will go to an Audioquest Niagara 3000 power conditioner/surge suppressor.
But where do you recommend the other power cords should be utilized for the best possible results?
I have 30 days to return the one's I don't need.
The Blizzards are 5 times the price of the other 2 power cords. Are they best utilized with my tube & solid state amps or my source components??
Thanks!
Start with amps, then work your way through your most listened to components.
Thank You
Yes i believe it, power cable make sound more tranparant, more clarity, black background, more detail. But for me the plug more important to change, change plug with copper plug, you,ll surprise how the sound change more gooddd.
According to the engineers, it's the wiring geometry.
Great vid.Chris. power cable can make a difference in my my experience.....but you can make your own at a fraction of the cost....I have.
You are correct...this is not for midrange components. If you spend a pile of cash on your equipment? Yea sure. Spend more.
Placement in a room?.....will make more difference then any of this stuff.
At my age and a lot of other peoples age? You cant hear that much difference anymore....biology.
Oh...and yes...Danny is fantastic to talk to and upgrade/fix things..."gentlemen" is my best description of him.
Thanks Chris. All the best.
Be safe
I’d argue the more midrange your amp is the higher the difference will be adding a better power cord. My 2 cents
Danny provides more misinformation than most videos on the subject.
For testing directionality:
When you can hear the difference between cables (is a precondition)
Buy 2 exactly same cables.
Start listening to them to establish that they sound the same.
Then just screw of the ends and swap side of the male and female.
Now you have swapped the direction on the cable.
When you have two identical cables you can listen and compare if you can determine any difference between the one that has swapped direction and the one that has not and is stock.
People, please! What direction we are talking about? Electricity basics: the AC curent changing DIRECTION 60 times in every single second.
I like your style and the way you started this process lol. I’ve been a subscribed for ages but just had to state my thoughts.
And cables matter of course!!!
I'm glad you liked the episode.
Great video.
You are an excellent communicator and your vids are information rich.
It looks like I will soon have the opportunity to upgrade my
'stock power cords' with a set of used
high-end Transparent Reference Powerlink Powercords.
Do you or anyone in your audio community know anything about the quality of this product and what a 1 meter used power cord in very good condition is worth approximately?
Thanks For Your Good Work.
I appreciate the kind words. Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with the Transparent products. I've heard good things, but I wouldn't be a reliable source for pricing. I'd recommend looking up the specific model and checking the new price before accepting any used offer you might receive.
@@thevinylattackYou are most welcome. No problem, I am already doing research on the middle range, in the Transparent line.
I have a reliable contact who is going to put together a package deal of power cords from Transparent.
We'll see what happens.
Thanks & keep up the great work.
Thanks! Whilst not in the market for power cables, I always find your videos entertaining.
Thank you very much for the Super Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed the video.
Unless you have cryogenically synchronized and aligned the quarks that make up the particles that make up the atoms that make the molecules the wire is made from, I don't think you'll hear a benefit.
Also, you need the Artisian Bespoked Electrons, not the regular ones.
😂
I am selling bottles of audiophile electrons if you are interested.
Bespoke!
Yep…if you don’t have bespoke audiophile system then power cables are not for you nor is this video directed to you….
@Stay Brown Well said. They also live on a different plane of existence. Some call it Never Never Land, others call it Narnia. But the truly unfortunate souls refer to this mystical place as Neverland Ranch. Because they are taking it up the wazoo every time they purchase these ridiculously priced power cables.
The Power Cord is a central part in my system; don’t want to miss it. Very noticeable improvement. Thanks for the Vid!
Thanks for watching!
I agree. I finally realized that power cables do make a difference. I use high end power cables with my Amp and Pre-Amp.
I just have one question, why are these manufacturers of hi end audio, shipping the equipment with the wrong power cables. They can design complicated electronic equipment but fail to take into account how the power cable will limit the detail, depth, space and sharpnes of the very expensive piece of equipment they trying to sell. I hope those engineers are watching so they can take their equipment to the next level.
They aren't failing to take it in to account, they're working within a profit margin.
Not sure if satire or not
I only use first run copper cables.
Because I have a decent amount of source components, I purchased a 2nd line conditioner/surge suppressor.
It's the
Furman Elite
15 Power 1.
Would plugging in the ifi Power Station into the back of my Furman (AKA,Daisy-Chaing) and plugging my source components into the Ifi Power Station be an added benefit to lowering the noise floor?
I don't think it would give you what you're looking for.
I don't see the need for a special (expensive) power cable when you can buy good power conditioner like the old H series from APC or Furman for the same or less money and plug multiple items into them.
True, but having a nice cord adds to the effect. At least, in my testing it did.
What about the fuse in the equipment that prevents too much current…. It is places in serie with the power cable, is this not the weakest link in the chain?
Dit participate some demo’s but could never hear any difference, and if there where or not was a topic of discussion so if it makes a difference it must me super small… ROI = limit to 0
A very good question and something for me to research more.
I appreciate your calm open approach to this. Not to put words in your mouth but it seems that whether via listening or measurements the differences were very subtle. My only concern is that your listening tests (the only tests that really matter) were not blind. I suspect that over multiple blind trials with multiple listeners, there would be no clear consensus over which cable was which, let alone which sounded better. I believe blind tests would change the perception of subtle improvements into no (or random) improvements. I had several CZcams exchanges with Danny asking him to do such blind testing, and he became overtly hostile invoking his “you know nothing, I know everything, flat earther” language. This was over a year ago and he seems to have learned that this type of hostility is not working, and has dialed down his approach. But it told me everything I need to know. Seems to me that otherwise intelligent people are willing to splurge on such a cable (say under $500) because it’s a nice solid “thing” and they feel the price is justified on that basis alone, and allows them to hedge whatever doubts they have about sonic improvement. When you get into thousands for cables, I think you leave the realm of otherwise intelligent people and enter into the realm of delusional millionaires for whom neither the expense nor the truth of sound improvement really matters.
Danny just did blind testing and passed with flying colors on Jay's Iyagi. You might like that video.
@@thevinylattack I’m aware. I’m talking about true double blind testing where the test administrator and the listener don’t know each other and neither have a a vested interest in the results. As I mentioned, a panel of multiple people over multiple trials. Very difficult, time consuming and expensive to do with the proper controls and safeguards. Barring that, preferably conducted by some independent organization, this who topic remains very dubious for me and for many others as I’m sure you are aware. Danny keeps saying come on down to my shop and I’ll prove this and that to you. For any thinking person such a set up is inadmissible on its face. Not to say their can’t be, or isn’t a benefit, but for me it’s not real until tested as I describe, and it’s certainly not “better” or “valuable” until a critical mass of blind listeners both say A is better than B and here is the dollar differential I’m willing to pay to get A over B. Based on your video, I’m pretty sure you understand where I am coming from.
@@edd2771 I see where you're coming from, but all of that isn't necessary to hear a difference in a power cord.
@@thevinylattack With respect, to hear a difference that is not impacted by the placebo effect (and this effect is well documented in audio testing) such a process is indeed necessary. As I initially mentioned, at under $500 it’s probably enough to know one bought a solid well-engineered piece for the money regardless of whether the sound difference is real or imagined. Beyond that, Personally I would never buy a cable costing in the thousands. But if I did, I would require the kind of blind testing I describe to validate the value proposition. It’s the kind of texting people like Danny will not do because the uncertain results are an existential threat to their business model and and all the claims they make. And I will repeat yet again that there may be a difference, it may be worth thousands, and I may be wrong. I’m just waiting (in vain) for someone to prove it to me.
@ 6.15 "Billions of volts"?? Really? The highest voltage transmission lines on the planet are just over 1 Megavolt. I think the highest voltage line in the US is 765KV, or about 1,300 times lower than 1 billion.
The directionality of cables has nothing to do with the flow of the electrons, it's about how the shield is connected. Typically, the shield is only connected at one end, so the termination at that end determines how the shielding is connected to ground.
Most of the stock power cables that come supplied with components aren't shielded at all. This makes them prone to transferring AC noise into low level interconnects that they cross or are run parallel with. Phono level signals are especially sensitive to this.
Yes, billions.
@@thevinylattack The only place on earth where 1 billion volts exists is in a massive lightning bolt. Even the world’s largest Tesla coil tops out at around 5 million volts.
True, additionally electrons don't really flow through cables like people think and the electromagnetic field is of more concern.
@@gotham61 You realize I'm talking about the cumulative amount of electricity that DTE's systems carry to the entire Populus of the state, right?
When it comes to solid core wire(must be .999 pure copper or silver not a mix) does have a lower resistance one way vs the other. Yes even in length as little as 1 foot (31.5cm) long.
Audio Science review did an intresting review of tge GR power cable.
I've heard very mixed things about his testing methods.
@@thevinylattack maybe you should take a look yourself.
@@thevinylattack There's a good reason for that. He doesn't use anything that can remotely be called science in his reviews. I called Amir out on it and he laughed at me. Then I proved it and he pulled all of my posts. He's just trying to build his youtube channel, and the fastest and easiest way to do that is to tell people exactly what they want to hear. Add to that Amir, and his followers absolutely refuse to answer any honest questions. If you have science to back you up, you don't need to act like a lawyer.
@@AT-wl9yq Those are indeed some of the things I've heard. I don't watch the channel, so I really don't know.
A power cable is different to house mains wiring in at least 2 respects. Fristly, it is near your hifi system, and secondly it is the last of the circuit and is connected to your hifi component. Thus, because of these factors, it might make a difference.
Everyone always compares to stock cables and we all know they're crap. So any expensive cable compared against unshielded cables could do better in a noisy environment. What i want to know is if you go one step up, a shielded hospital cablemfor example, will that get you to the same point as the GR research? Or do cables above the GR Research give you more?
Of course we compare against the stock cable. That's what comes with your equipment.
Well, I would obviously use a power conditioner, but my system other than using good DIY cables for my speakers and realize my best upgrade path will be the individual components long before taking a plunge for an Audiophile Power cable as I'd likely find better sonic benefits there. But in any case to say something is impossible is to be narrow minded. And as we should all know the proof for one self is in the putting just as no two ears specifically hear the same way or sounds. And as always found the observations and tests interesting and enjoyable.
Cables are definitely the last thing I'd say should be on anyone's list. A power conditioner, quality components and room treatment (especially room treatment) should be far higher on the list.
Can’t say wether they make a difference or not as I’ve never done back to back tests but I believe that if you have good components then I think it’s only fair to do your gear justice by using good quality cables
You should try it and see what you think.
@@thevinylattack I need to try and dig out my standard cables. They will be around somewhere
@@colinhathaway9493 lol, I know exactly what you mean.
@@thevinylattack I’ll let you know my findings
@@colinhathaway9493 I look forward to hearing it.
A power conditioner made the biggest difference in sound quality in a system I built for my son. I did not think it would make a difference in sound. I just wanted to protect the equipment. Then when we started listening to it we could do a side by side comparison and it made a difference. Much less distortion. I couldn’t believe it. I wasn’t looking for the difference. It was just there. As for power cables? (Shrug shoulders)?
Clean power is an essential and highly overlooked component.
I enjoyed the piece. Thoughtfully done. People can listen for themselves and make their own decisions. I think you are right on about how marginally less significant factors ought to be prioritized. Unfortunately, as the degree of anonymity a mode of communication provides increases, civility tends to sink into the noise.
I appreciate you taking the time to leave a thoughtful comment.
Though I am firmly in the skeptic side of things, i will admit that it is possible to design a "better" power cable. I have always felt that a "better" cable is not going to be sonically superior in any way. I believe you heard what you heard. But if a new power cable can make any kind of difference in high-end audio gear, that tells me the power supply in that equipment is poorly designed and needs to be fixed. The #1 thing a power supply does is convery AC power to DC power.
If an audio maker really wants to go "high end," they should make DC powered components and have you plug into a big battery bank. You can't get cleaner than direct DC power, especially when coming from a battery.
I would agree that a better constructed cable won't always sound better. It may not change the sound at all depending on the variables.
The B24 needs an Aussie plug option.
I'd imagine he can get one.
When I think about all the various sources of noise, static, and interference that might infect my power source as the wire enters my components, I'm unpersuaded that a single bit of say 10 feet of high quality wire late in the chain will make a meaningful improvement. There is some 75 miles or more to the nearest generating plant, and given the networked nature of the power system, thousands of miles of wire connect to my power input. But, if I find myself getting noise in the system, you have got me thinking that a power conditioner might clean up noise in my mains power.
The city pipes that carry the water to my house aren't ideal either. That's why I use a water filter ;-)
@@thevinylattack Are you suggesting the power cable is filtering the power to the amp. Does it only filter out bad elements?
@@spudpud-T67 A quality power cable does indeed filter the power to the amp.
@@thevinylattack The smart copper conveniently only removing unwanted signal no doubt.
I'm going to post four paragraphs I have posted elsewhere on this topic of Power Cables; I am first going to introduce my comments on your CZcams channel with stating that I choose my words carefully, and wisely. Therefore, please notice that I say there is a different category of cables; Power as opposed to Audio. Obvious, but I wanted to clearly express the designation.
A power supply within, or externally connected to a hi fi audio component is responsible for filtering, from what I've heard. Furthermore, and it is expressed in a paragraph below, I don't think that a very expensive Power Cable is required by necessity, and essential for an audio signal. Far more important are Speaker Wire, and interconnects, too.
I'm not saying a cheap, no brand cable should be bought, and connected! I just think that a (in italics) very expensive Power Cable is not going to actually make an audible difference. We have to remember that we are considering electrical flow of electricity, not an actual audio signal; it's about electrification.
Slightly edited, here is what I posted elsewhere:
A Power Cable provides power for hi fi, electricity in North America is listed as 115Volts to a hi fi audio component; it does not actually provide an audio signal! Here in Canada it is up to 120 Volts. There does not seem to be a logical path to a noticeable difference, even a very small one, for an effect on Audio! As these hi fi audio products are connected to a wall AC outlet, the same voltage, and current is passing through; and entering an amplifier, or a Receiver with amplifying circuits.
A power supply within, or externally connected to a hi fi audio component is responsible for filtering, from what I've heard. Furthermore, and it is expressed in a paragraph below, I don't think that a very expensive Power Cable is required by necessity, and essential for an audio signal. Far more important are Speaker Wire, and interconnects, too.
Therefore, if it is not selected hearing - as I call it, it could actually be a Placebo Effect. Maybe not always; as I pointed out it could be Selected Hearing, as I call it. Certainly there is actually a bit of difference if comparisons are noticed; or measured, such as improvements, for different hi fi products of the same function! Such a similarity of function to be considered are speakers, turntables, especially phono cartridges, and amplification; obvious, and noticeable. And easily measured, too.
Furthermore, good quality audio cables that have better, air tight insulation are also relevant; and are going to make a bit of a difference, and improvement. However, based on Science, and from the logic of electrical theory, and application a very expensive Power Cable cannot make a better connection; significant, or noticeable effect on hi fi audio."🔉🎵🎶
May I have some beer with my worms please... 😁
Helps to wash it all down.
All cables (regardless of RCA, power cable, speaker cable, etc) are like tires on the car. Getting slicks might work killer for the track, might not work so good off road. And getting the highest performance tires on the common Toyota Corolla, might not make much of difference. But using cheap re-treads on a 2023 Corvette Stingray, yeah, you are not going to like the experience. Bottomline is, you should buy cables that is the same quality as your system. Rack system? Least expensive cables. 100 watt receiver? Get decent but not $$$ cables. Ultra high end? Don't let cables be the weakest link on your system.
Early in this vid thought comment came to mind... I don't know why anyone hates on Danny. ?? I like him I personally think he makes clear sense and I think his products are well worth the $$ vs the wine drinkers here just choosing Audioquest Dragon speaker cables for the dopamine trip. I don't pass judgement, if you have the $$ to spend great, but I just wish you do realize even if you spend 100x or more there is massive diminishing returns vs going with something reasonable like 500-800$ stuff (or even less as in Danny's or other options). To me all it has to do is remove any external interference because I do believe it has consequences with high end peripherals vs a dresser top boom box system. But, to each their own
I’m willing to believe (I know that’s big of me) power cables make a difference. I can see how they would act as a filter to the distorting elements in the mains. However if this is true then I would think that a single good cable connected to a power strip would allow you to clean up the power with a single cable and not have to add new AC cables to all of your equipment
I think you're probably right, but I can also see how having higher end power cables for each component could increase that effect. I have no proof of this, however.
My experience: only adding a single Power Cord to the power amp didn’t change a thing.
After adding a second one to the preamp, the sun went up. Now I was a believer. Take care.
Yes it's the shielding and better conducting materials but honestly I wouldn't spend more than a few hundred bucks on a cable if it's a very high end system however multi thousand dollor cables do exist that's a bit extreme
I tend to stay around the few hundred dollar mark myself.
I read in some advisory sites that, the goal in an audio system to keep the cables as short as possible. Can somebody tell is this true or false?
It depends on the cable. It is indeed better to have shorter speaker cables, for example, but to do that you'll need longer component cables to help with reach. This is said to be better than shorter component cables and longer speaker cables. BUT, and this is key, if you don't have a very highly resolving system, it's not worth your time to even worry about it.
@@thevinylattack
I am just asking this, because I have a 2/3 foot long custom made power cable, and it is hard to imagine that few inches make any differences in the sound quality. Or I should use a longer high end power cable? If so, then how long it supposed to be? Anyway still I respect people who believe in this.
@@laszlobarchet2646 generally these differences aren't noticed in such short distances.
@@thevinylattack
I am going to replace the short cable by a 15 feet long, then maybe I can notice some improvement. The next step will be 22 feet, but that will be the last if I can not hear any differences.
Just get hold of some of the wire that the electricity company uses to get the power to your house. Obviously it's perfect as people don't seem to take that part of the circuit into account. Power seems to only degrade when using the power cord that the amp manufactures supply with the amp. If it wasn't perfect or close to how would adding one golden link (the power cord) into a rusty chain add benefits to a system. Other bottlenecks for poor cable could be in the amp and speaker, 1mm thick lead leads on electronic components and minute circuit board traces.
I'm not a skeptic on better cables, but I use a non scientific method for buying cables. I spend on cabling relative to what my equipment costs. Expensive equipment, I spend more on cables. Inexpensive equipment I use more standard cables. I do the same thing in matching equipment together. To me it is about balancing everything and ensuring it is all cohesive and the result sounds good. A tweak hear or there can make some difference, but again you have to achieve a balance between all of your gear and accessories.
If you have a system that's working for you, that's what matters.
Anybody who has ever looked at Romex in the walls, crappy fuseboxes, and old power lines will not spend big $$$ on the last few feet going from the outlet to the device. Get a CyberPower UPS instead!
Subtle, in our world is enough.
I would agree.
Thanks for the review and comparison. Personally, the very first cable I upgraded was my power cable. I wasn't sure what to expect, if anything. It turned out to be very noticeable and a solid improvement in sound. (I put it on my amp) So, for me, it does make (can make) a big difference.
I'm happy it's working out for you.
OK how about this, a 70 year old house with inferior wiring, on a hundred year old grid? Will power cables make a difference then, just food for thought.
Yes. Yes they will.
Install a home run from the panel to the AV gear... I would do the kitchen first... Plenty of how to videos. I've rewired a good portion of my house, and installed a sub panel in the garage, all for basic material cost and a few hand tools.
Thank you for both answers, that is good to know
OMG, measuring cables for noise ???? and drawing conclusions from that?!?! One would expect to measure impedance, conductance, resistance.....but surely not noise.
OMG, more than one way to skin a cat ???? Surely only a knife is best?!?!
I use to laugh how the genius/Engineer, Paul W. Klipsch, would state that cables were bs and that "lamp cord was good enough", I dont use lamp cord for my speakers. I will say that cables are a very important part of a good stereo system, great video...cheers....✌
I'm glad you liked it.
What would Paul know.
I hope you'll forgive me for this: My high end power cable gave me better tasting tea when I used it on my kettle for boiling water. To each their own. I made my own high end power cables, just for laughs. I can't hear the difference, but they do look nice in my system.
😂
What did you use to make your high end cable's ?
@@gingernutpreacher I used Lapp Olflex 110 cy shielded mains cable, Xangsane angled power plugs and some braided hose to make it look nice. Reasonably low on cost, high on quality.
Do you have a mid to high end system that allows you to hear the difference? Do you have your speakers pulled out into the room 6ft?
@@Staybrown11 Full Naim 200 series equipment paired with Neat Momentum speakers... No idea if that constitutes as high end. The mentioned 6 feet distance distance depends greatly on the type of speaker and room acoustics/layout... So to me, that is quite arbitrairy.
If I may say so, the takeaway for me on this was that the iFi audio PowerStation AC Power Bar is the thing to get!
It's a excellent piece of equipment.
Imagination, placebo effect? Yes, you can hear differences, but not in an properly blinded AB test.
Old, often repeated reply. Not convincing to many people anymore.
I have indeed heard differences in blind AB testing.
Because there ARE audible differences.
@@thevinylattack the you are the first one.
so. Yes. No. perhaps. definitely maybe. everything changes. better amps help. better speakers help. biggest change in my system: room treatment. speaker placement. do wires help? yup.
Room treatment is one of the very best things you can do for improved sound.
Et Tu Brutue? While I value the opinions presented here, even I know that wires are part of a circuit , so obviously any change in the circuit , will affect performance. one can't argue science. If anyone thinks they hear one thing or another, they do , that is how human hearing works, since it is a process of the brain, and the brain has no self awareness. If one thinks changing wire is more significant than the subjectiveness of human hearing, have fun. I prefer to spend my money elsewhere, but I will be happy to listen to whatever system with what ever wires you might enjoy sharing. I could even bring some cool records.
I would have to disagree with self awareness. The one thing that separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom is our self awareness. I am self aware, and only because of my brain (and knowing I have one and a rough idea of what it does) am I self aware.
As a "semi-audiophile," I was persuaded that cables can make a difference. I was having problems with the IEC connectors on some Wireworld power cords; they tended to sag and lose connection. Looking for a better connection, I bought a Transparent HPPC and put it on my preamp (McIntosh C2300). What I got was am improvement in sound! The sound was more open. I replaced most of the other power cords. A couple of years later I decided to try the Transparent Premium on my preamp, and again heard more open sound with an increase in detail (due likely to the Premium's noise reduction properties). I replaced the rest of the cords with Premiums. I don't think putting them on my sources did much; the most noticeable changes occurred further down the chain. My only complaint is that the Premiums aren't very flexible.
What would we do without weekend engineers blowing up the comment section?
I'm just happy to get the interaction that ups the algorithm ;-)
I can't hear the difference of sound in power cables. This might be due to my mid quality equipment, my crappy ears or the lack of listening experience. But my science knowledge keeps telling me that a power cable can't make that huge difference if the rest of the cables in the wall, outside the house and down to the power grid are unchanged/untreated. Therefore I strongly believe that the majority of sound difference a power cable can make, could be achieved by clever cable routing in the house and rack. My rack has four cable routes - one for power, one for speaker cables, one for NF signals and one for digital signals (e.g. ethernet, USB). Thus I keep power hums away from high current speaker output and low current amplifier input and digital signals. Lastly I avoid cable looping - the connection from the turntable to the phono preamp takes a different route than from that phono preamp to power amp, etc.
Sounds like you have a solid way to keep everything running smooth.
Inside every electronic device there is a AC DC converter, named power supply, AC is ISOLATED FROM YOU EQUIPMENT, this is pure nonsense!!!
If that were true, you could just run a coat hanger wrapped in electrical tape and get the same result.
@@thevinylattack well its just electronics you know, you can learn it to, starting with physics. But why don´t you just prove it? You know how, with the right measure tools maybe live streaming.
@@triodoipv6769 Maybe watch the whole video and you'll see that I did.
@@scottwheeler2679 Sadly, I think you are yelling into a void. Electronic design & theory discussions are futile with most normal people. They don't know what a diode or cap even looks like, and that's just fine. But it's sad to see them waste money on things that only matter in their mind. I urge people to take that money and buy a soldering iron, a cheap meter and build a simple kit. Learn more - spend less on audio jewelry.
To each his own - I'll go back to building amps, speakers, & repairing vintage audio gear instead of thinking about how my AC cable is robbing my system of PRaT.
@@thevinylattack Did you? With what?!!!
Have you done true ABX tests? The measurements you did basically say they are the same with less than half a percent measurement difference. Would want to see if you saw output difference at the speaker wire side. What your test showed me is the stick cable measures just like the fancy ones.
Even if you could show measurement differences, the electrical signal going to your amp/dac/whatever is converted in the unit. No one in the history of the world has passed an ABX power cable test to show a difference, unless the power cable was modified in a way to reduce voltage significantly to then adversely effect the product it was plugged into.
I would have thought a properly designed piece of audio equipment would have built in noise reduction at the power input stage, transformer, filters etc inside the product. For that reason I find it hard to comprehend why you would want to spend several hundred on a power cable (unless you are plugged that cable directly into a transducer such as a speaker which of course with a power cable you are not!). For that reason it makes no logical sense for the need to reduce mains power noise prior to input. Whilst I accept your findings that the cable did measure lower noise, all that would be filtered out anyway (unless the power input stage on the other end is total crap of course which it should not be if it’s designed properly). For those reasons, I’m sorry but I just think these things are totally unnecessary.
I’d like to add that I have used a £1 power cable on my (reasonable hi end) power amplifier and I have zero noise at full volume at my speakers (both ATC and Spendor), no hum, no hiss, total blackness, so if you can explain how spending Over $350 on a power cable is going to improve that situation then I’m all ears. Please don’t take this as a critics of your review here, it’s just simply my counter argument based on a logical thought process and my own experience of not wasting money to “solve a problem” that doesn’t exist.
A properly designed piece of equipment does a great job of cleaning up line noise. But it performs that much better when it's supplied even cleaner power. The lower the line noise, the lower the overall noise.
@@thevinylattack I understand your point, but if I already have zero noise then how can it get any quieter than that?
@@paulkelleway8032 There's no such thing as zero noise.
@@thevinylattack Yes that’s true, I’ll re-phrase it to “a noise level low enough to be beyond human hearing”. I know there is noise, I have 20db ambient noise in my room without any electrical equipment even plugged in but it’s not noticeable.
The reason some individuals do not hear a difference is their system is not resolving enough. I suggest using a balanced audio system with XLR connections that also has power conditioning. Now change out your stock cables with fancy ones and compare for a few days, if you cannot hear a difference than keep your stock cables and be happy! The critical part is having a discerning ear and using quality recordings to hear/know the difference!
Very solid advice.
@@thevinylattack Thanks man.
Yes cables have direction, at least silver does. Listen to tests done by Kenji over at Kenrick’s Audio of Japan, I’ll try and find the link for you. He demo’s the differences.
I'd love to see the reference on that. My expert says it doesn't and I have no reason to doubt him and every reason to trust him.
@@thevinylattack Aks any person who has knowledge about electricity and fysicus and they will confirm that there is no difference in the direction a current flows in or on a wire…
Copper cables are directional as well. Two friends helped me doing a blind test and I noticed it every time they had switched the cable from it's default direction.
The test was done using fairly cheap computer speakers so it doesn't have to be high end for it to be noticeable. For anyone wanting to try it out, use music containing lots of cymbals.
Forgot to mention that I've known about cables being directional for decades while my friends were extremely skeptical. I'll never forget their OMG! moment when they compared my answers to their predetermined list.
@@geminijinxies7258 how do you explain this, and why is it not indicated in 99,9% of all electrical cables including “audiophile” ones? I must guess I’m lucky to not hear a difference so I can spend that money on music instead of cables
@@patrickmeylemans9627 I asked an engineer. It doesn't get more expert than that. Maybe watch the whole video.
I'm not an audiophile so I could not possibly hear the difference.
Being an audiophile (which simply means you love music and gear) had no bearing on your listening ability. You might be surprised by what you can hear with a quality cable upgrade.
To me cables are full of snake oil and bs. Just when you have some basic good quality cables. Especially in case of digital cables and power cables.
A victim of the Law of Diminishing Returns. I don't discount they can design a cable to act as a noise filter of sorts but spending that kind of money, per cable, for your turntable, CD player, amp, phono pre, streamer, DAC is a waste when there are power conditioners available at nearly every price you can plug your entire system into.
Wrong, I used to think the same thing until I experienced it myself with my system. You can tell the difference with highly resolving speakers. I went from svs cables to cables recommended from a high fi you tube reviewer And could easily tell the difference. People say highly resolving speakers will let you know if a recording is a good one or a bad one. That same rule applies with cables.
@@Prometheus1979 Agreed. A system's ability to reproduce music in a highly resolving manner makes hearing cable differences much easier. My new Soundsmith Fidelium speaker cables are my current favorites at the moment. Unbelievably transparent compared to my old OCC copper cables.
Here’s what happened, the svs cables had a lot of loose bass, ok midrange and very muffled highs, when I switched the cables out to a recommended Amazon cable I dramatically noticed a difference, highs were crystal clear like a veil was lifted off my speakers, midrange was good but lacks bass. I tried another random pair of cables and only noticed a slight difference in those. I am not using high end stuff either, just midrange equipment
you can't hear the difference, that's all..................the power cord is the most important cable..........
There's no contesting this. Power cables do make a difference. I feel sorry for the ears that can't hear it.
Also, it is well worth spending the extra money if you've already invested in high-end equipment. Ultimately, you want to leave no stone unturned in harvesting the potential of your system.
I would say I'm a believer, but the truth is, I'm not. There's no believing in what you already know.
How do I know? Through experience, through comparing the befores and afters.
I laugh at the arguments against this. I've been accused of being delusional.
I used to argue with the non-believers who insist it's a combination of snake oil and placebo effects.
What I realized is that when the flat-earther has decided the earth is flat, there is no convincing him otherwise.
I realized it was an exercise in futility. So I stopped trying to convince.
😂. The only award $400 power cables should get is this one 💩. Cut the cloth sheath off and see what off the shelf cable they’re using.
What would that prove? I'm concerned about the performance.
@@thevinylattackYou’d see the part number of the $4 length of cable to buy so you can make your own.
@@jm32145 Tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me you didn't watch the video.
Here is what I will never understand about the cable change sound believers. Why don't they do a single double-blind test? Instead of telling us what you think you are hearing why not prove what you are hearing? I challenge Vinyl attack to set up a double blind test. ;-)
BTW, both these cables have been exhaustively measured using $30,000 in testing equipment. They failed to show any differences down to 1/10 of 1db (audibility is 1-2 db). If the power cables changed the sound it would have to show up in a frequency response. The only argument left is the cables do change the sound however frequency response and measurements simply cannot show this audible difference. You also have to disregard the fact this is the exact same genre of measurements devices that are used to test all the components the power cables are plugged into (i.e. DACs, players, processors, streamers, etc.).
Fortunately, we have the means and knowledge available to prove or disprove audibility. For some reason, however, not a single cable manufacturer/reviewer will set conduct a single double blind test. Why is that?
What makes you think I (along with others) haven't done a blind test? Danny did a blind test with Jay Lee and passed 8 out of 10. Even $30,000 worth of measuring equipment can't hear the spatial differences the human ear can.
So what type of power cords do you prefer to use? Do you use the stock power cord that came with the audio component?
What a waste of time. Unless you have a specific problem with RF at your location none of these cables will do a difference. These cables are for people with deep pocket and thin brain! By the way your can get a IEC cable with a shield for a dollar more than the regular one.
Another satisfied customer.
badly designed cables can influence the sound. every good designed cable ... sounds the same. power cables especially.
ask an electrical engineer instead of listening to Consumer audio brands. and yes, I had multi-thousand cables once ... now I buy bluejeans cables and I'm done 😂
I did ask an engineer. It's right in the video. I also showed that cable design can indeed be improved from one good cable to the next.
You can't just say cables make a difference. You have to separate signal carrying cables from power cables. While signal cables can alter sound ( tho how much is debatable) people don't seem to understand what happens to make AC power into audio. What happens on the AC side has little to no effect on the sound. First, audio signal is created from DC not AC. The process (power supply) eliminates all the crap in the AC, it's no longer AC it's DC. Voltage fluctuations in the AC may, may affect sound. Do some homework, learn about placebo, before spending money that could be spent on something that does matter, like speakers and their placement in your room. That's AT LEAST 95% of your sound. If you want to spend on placebo and eye candy that's totally ok, but you should just understand where your $ is going.
Tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me you didn't watch the video...
@@thevinylattack Well I did watch it but I see so many of these power cord videos sometimes I glaze over parts. I didn't mean it directly at you but people in general to learn the diff between signal carrying cables and power cords, and what their function is. And why power cords don't affect the sound, it's truly placebo.
@@bradt.3555 Power cords can indeed affect the sound. Hence why I showed the noise reduction tests.
@@thevinylattack Well, that little tester is just checking something on the line side not changes in the signal going to speaker. Any alternating current is eliminated by the gears power supply. Whats the worst AC noise? 60hz hum, does it make it thru the power supply? I've seen tests on the audio signal with the line changed from super clean to just wall outlet to so dirty it's like going thru a dimmer and zero change in signal, no change in s/n ratio, nothing. The whole process of of going to filtered DC eliminates any AC. For the noise on the AC to affect signal then AC would have to leak thru the power supply. 60 hz hum is 120/240 volt , not milivolts. Don't know about your stuff but I get zero AC hum in my stuff. Just curious did you plug your tester into each cord and see if there was any change just from cord to cord?
@@bradt.3555 Again, this was covered in the video. Power cords can, and do make a difference depending on the parameters. Several of which were covered, in the video.
A meter of cable is going to help reduce noise when there is hundreds of yards of cheap cable inside your walls feeding your power socket. Complete nonsense.
Danny will tell you, it's like miles of pipe that your water flows through then when it gets to your house you clean it up with a charcoal filter system.😮
@@michaelbarras6950 LOL/// Pure BS. An active power conditioner might clean up the noise and smooth things out but bot a piece of wire. No matter how much it costs. :)
Except it's not nonsense.
@@EzeeLinux I would only argue to get the best out of anything post a power conditioner you go to cables like these, otherwise what's the point. Of course I'm speaking max benefit here. There is a reason top touring bands bring their own transformer/conditioning systems to arenas for this exact reason. Look up what day Pink Floyd would use, or bands like that. They ain't taking a chance on both audio quality or dips/dives from what the house power is susceptible to.
@@thevinylattack Please show me how in a abx test.
LOL
"When to buy cables?" When you have absolutely no clue about physics or electronics, and you have more dollars than brain cells.
or, when you need cables?