The mistake that cost me half my lumber
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6:15 Did you mean you prefer to use _kiln dried_ ?
@@j10001 Yes Stumpy said this in another comment.
I just treated myself to some fisch brad point bits. They’re outrageously expensive in Australia, but they really are incredible. Each bit is a work of art. Precise and razor sharp. Drilling holes is heaps of fun now
6:15 guessing you meant kiln dried? But always love the information! Thanks for sharing your knowledge
I meant to say I usually prefer kiln-dried
I had to rewind myself and check that I wasn’t losing my mind 😉. Very tough to create such great content at such a consistent rate and not have an occasional slip of the tongue!
@StumpyNubs pin this comment? I scrolled 10 posts down to find this confirmation.
@@erithanis Yes, please. It's clear enough from context, but one wants to be sure.
@@StumpyNubs Thanks for clarifying, wondered the same.
One other consideration of air dried vs Kiln dried. Insects. Air dried may contain such things as powder post beetles which will likely not in be found in Kiln dried lumber. I speak from experience. I harvest and dry a lot of my own wood and enjoy some really special wood, but I also keep an eye out for the little piles of sawdust left by the little worms. I enjoy your show.
I've had multiple slabs (black walnut, english walnut, apple, etc.) that I've sent through the planer after 2-3 years of air drying only to notice fresh frass mound up afterwards. I made a friend a cutting board which has a live (at the time) post beetle larva emerging and trapped in the epoxy that I was using to fill it's hole on apple sapwood. It's amazing that they can survive with almost no moisture and go through the trauma of having the wood cut, planed, routed and sanded. Gotta hand it to the little buggers!
180 deg for at least 2 hours and it will kill all bugs, eggs, larvae and spores. Steam bent wood will never get dry rot or bugs.
Kiln dried lumber is why we don’t get “death watch beetle” furniture anymore.
The graveyard silence of kiln dried wood.
I've lost quite a bit of lumber over years because of these little varmits!
one of the advantages of living in a place that drops to -40c in the winter is it kills pretty much any insects that want to eat the wood.
Very professional presenter, his material is always to the point, comprehensive, within a defined context, others on CZcams should follow his example
I read in a book by Eric Sloane (a study on weather I believe) that the old timers from the 19th century and before had a method to prevent warping and cracking in wood, even slabs 20”+ which we can’t seem to do today. They started with a tree that was already dried for the most part by cutting it at the prime time of the year when the tree is at its driest sap levels. I believe it was the 3rd week of January, which I watched the humidity levels last winter and sure enough the 3rd week of January was super dry, like single digits on the RH level and made my nose hurt from dryness. Anyways, the tree has been drying out all winter and this super dry atmosphere sucks the moisture out. So they would cut the tree down during this week then I believe cut the tree into slabs the 2nd week of February. Then let it air dry, for how long I don’t know. If I had a saw mill I would try this myself. I talked to a friend who runs a WoodMizer and he has a lot of trouble with the wood splitting during the drying process and I mentioned this method of cutting the tree at the right time, but I don’t know if they’ll follow that advice. I should follow up with them this winter to see how they fair. Perhaps someone with sawmill capabilities can weigh in on this.
I'm the proud owner of an old old LT 40. In my neck of the woods Douglas Fir is the most common. I cut predominantly standing dead. The moisture content is already greatly reduced. Unfortunately fir isn't great for furniture. I am trying to mill more edge grain for door and flooring projects. We'll see, I guess.
I've been working mostly with Air dried lumber for many years now because I have a sawmill, and you're spot on about the wood not fully drying outside (even in a barn). When I'm working on a crucial furniture project, I always sticker my wood in the house for several weeks before building.
So, if you are building a hay wagon, use barn dried wood.
You know, its hard to present a topic clearer than you're able too. Thank you.
I've been thinking of getting emergency lights and sirens installed on my mule van, so that when I buy 2x4s from a big box store, I can race home as fast as possible and use them before they turn into hockey sticks. LOL
I've been having a LOT of luck with 1x6 lumber from Lowes lately. Their supplier coats the end grain with a thin wax layer, which I believe prevents the boards from air drying too quickly (somewhat similar process for air drying slabs, I believe). I recently built a "two-storey" outdoor insulated cat house (two entrances, plus the front swings open for cleaning). I created the siding from scratch by ripping a 1x6 in half, then turning on edge and resawing them in half on the band saw, then adding a chamfer to the edges on the factory side to create vertical siding for it. No problems!
You've verified much that knowledge I have accumulated over the past 40 years. Along with clarification on a few other points.
Thanks
I've been watching your videos for years and they are always so informative. I really liked this one because you break down the confusion into logical explanations.
Thanks for explaining moisture content in wood and the differences between air and kiln drying, and the pitfalls of both. It makes a lot more sense to me now. 😊😊😊😊❤❤
Depending on where your project is going to end up, there may not be much point chasing an exact target moisture content. The summers here are very humid and I have no A/C, and I heat with wood in the winter, so the RH in my house varies wildly over the course of the year. Everything just needs to be built to accommodate lots of expansion.
I'm in the exact same situation - very limited A/C in a humid northeast climate, heat with a wood stove, and have four pieces I've made out of air dried lumber that I didn't get an exact moisture content on - they've held up better than expected. The only wood in my house that noticeably changes is the red oak flooring abutting the hearth stone near my wood stove. There are noticible 1/32-1/16 inch gaps in the 2.5" width flat sawn oak boards. I'm installing air dried quarter sawn oak boards upstairs soon - they're 7 years air dried and been in the basement for 4 of them.
@@frattman really, this was the situation for almost everybody for hundreds of years, and traditional wood construction methods were developed around it. We probably shouldn't be surprised.
Few people seem to build with movement in mind anymore.
I totally agree @@MrDaneBrammage
Best CZcams channel ever! I am a much better woodworker because of the wealth of information you share.
I learned about the potential for loss from air drying first hand when I cut down and slabbed a few trees from my yard. Given the time involved, the amount of space it takes up etc I am not sure I would do it again. It does make for a cool story for some of the pieces in my house. Thanks for all the great info James.
Great explanation James. Thanks for another lesson in wood, Professor!
One aggravation of kiln dried lumber is that lumber dried to a standard in one part of the US, and then shipped to another may either lose additional moisture or take up moisture depending on local climate differences. That can cause a nice straight piece being ripped to either bow outwards during a ripping, or to pinch the blade. Neither are good for safety during a cut. A pinched blade can stall the saw which needs to be handled carefully. Not a major problem as long as you remember to turn the saw off. A piece that springs out at the ends during the cut can force the portion of the cut piece between the blade and fence into the blade, causing a kickback, even with a riving knife installed. No brand of saw is immune to this particular problem.
Thanks for sharing with us James. Stay safe and keep up the good information. Fred .
6:07 i think you misspoke. You said air-dried twice
I was going to say the same thing, but you beat me to it. I am guessing he meant to say kiln dried for the first option and hand dried for the specific cases he gave.
Yes, I meant to say I usually prefer kiln-dried
Very good topic! I’m a hobbyst and I use construction grade spruce mainly because it’s cheap and good enough for planters, wine rack, storage shelves. If i make more fine stuff like bookshelves, cutting boards, wooden clock etc I prefer red oak or cherry. These all have a tendency for bowing and warpings so I need to take care of the lumber. Wood is a tough stuff and for a hobbyst its pretty frustrating that my lumber is bowed today, yesterday was flat and tomorrow will be flat again according to the humidity changes.
Great, informative presentation. Thanks!
Great video on a technical subject with many variables. Very much an engineering problem deserving of a wood selection flow chart.
Thanks a bunch for all the tips, James! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Good video and totally agree with what you said, as others have mentioned bugs can be an issue with air dried, i would add that well seasoned timber would be a bonus if you can find it 👍
Always good information. Thank you for sharing.
You convinced me a while back to try Fisch and ... WOW.
Happily I scored a deal at my local Woodcraft on a set that had damaged box. Glad I went in early that day.
Thanks for explaining the moisture content in wood that makes sense.
This was interesting and very helpful. Thanks friend.
Thank you. I wish I knew this when I just started woodworking.
Great video as always with such great content thanks for sharing
good video on a subject some (most) woodworkers completely skip over or have no knowledge----good subject expressed correctly thanx rick
Exactly why treated kumber weights more. Wonderful video, hope all understands more. Thank you for sharing. Everyone stay safe, happy and healthy. From Henrico County Virginia
When I built my deck 28 years ago, I bought treated lumber. It was SO wet (every nail I drove spit liquid up) that it shrunk and warped a lot. The joints started out as 16 penny nail width and some opened up to be able to stick your thumb into.
All good information here. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.🙂🙂
IMO you can't beat air dried lumber that has been properly dried (i.e. a sufficient enough time to do so in a suitable environment to do so ) and acclimated to your shop/it's final destination.
Very informative.
Thank you. I always wondered about moisture content if would and how it equates to humidity of the surrounding air.
It's also important to note that certain coatings and treatments can reduce the impact of humidity on wood, which could impact your choice of finish if the wood you want to use is a bit green
I bought a full set of Fisch Forstner bits about ten years ago and whilst expensive I was surprised that they were well under what I expected.
I recently watched a video that explained different ways wood can be “wet”. When cutting down a tree water can literally flow from the cut, due to water in in the tubes that run vertically in the trunk and supply nutrients to the branches and leaves. Comparing these tube in wood to a handful of straws, there are spaces between the straws that comprise the fibers of the tree. The straws can drain quickly and freely, the “meat” between them isn’t well exposed to the atmosphere and takes much longer to dry. I’m no expert but I liked the analogy and it helped me understand why it takes so darn long for wood to dry. It is also a consideration for gluing.
Very excellent knowledge to know! Thx. 👍👍
If you start with a green log & rive (split) it, it won't warp a huge amount. Quarter sawn will warp a bit more and flat sawn will move the most.
As a hobbyist I am having a blast cutting and drying my own lumber. I place it in my insulated shed, no heat just a dehumidifier. I had the moisture content down to under 10%. I put the wood in the beginning of august, by the middle of November, I was able to use. it. So far, no issues.
Thank you for this particular video. I live in an area with an abundance of red and white oak, hickory and many other woods. Wood borers are a problem with the air dried lumber I have harvested and taken to the sawmill for lumber. I have a method of cleaning out the borers and filling the holes with clear urethane. I learned to do this after I made a display case for my wife’s Christmas Village, lots of wood dust on the floor. At least there was much Christmas celebration going on in the village!
And I plan on being fisch bits!! Already bought other tools I love under your recommendation blue
Very great topic 🙂🙂
Excellent
I belong to a seniors wood shop, and we purchase a lot of different species of lumber (mostly pine, but black walnut, maple, etc...) and we bring all of it into our shop and stack it with spacers in between. Over time, I have noticed that the wood both cups, twists and splits. Most of it is almost useless to use unless you are planning on working on smaller projects. The large pine that is required for more of the projects is pretty much redundant because it's so badly cupped. It's difficult to prevent this from happening as nobody pays attention to the wood once it has been stored. Very annoying.
Thanks.
I tend to get oversized boards rough cut from an arbor, then I put them in a room with a dehumidifier for a month. Generally, that dries them out enough to be used in a project. You still have to use a moisture meter for wood doing it this way, but nine times out of 10, it's ready to go after a month.
I was wondering if a dehumidifier could be used for drying lumber. Thanks.
All good info. I'd add that some contruction techniques and furniture designs can accomodate movement after fabrication better than others.
Any ideas about reclaimed or recycled timber from old structures like bridges etc.? Theoretically it should be super air dried, but only to its local environment i guess
Hey buddy… love your videos. Just fyi…… at 6:14 you stated that you prefer air dried lumber….. I believe you meant to say that you prefer kiln dried lumber.
Thanks for your videos. I’m old, and you CAN teach old dogs new tricks!
We have an attic space i store my cut wood. Really its the best of both worlds air dried with the added heat rising from the house to soeed up the process.
It like going to class and getting schooled! So we’ll done. Clean, concise and always dependable!
Air dried for outdoor projects, kiln dried for indoor projects. That's my general rule. Kiln dried stays inside the house, while the air dried lumber stays in the garage, at least until I have a temperature controlled shop.
Great video, thanks for the useful info! Do you have a favorite moisture meter?
I bought my first Fisch bit the other day, and all I can say is wow. I replaced my 1/4in DeWalt brad with a 1/4in Fisch brad, and the difference is night and day. My 1/4in plugs now actually fit perfectly into the hole, instead of having slop. They are pricey, but getting them one at a time, over the course of your wood working journey, makes it easier on the wallet in at any given time. I was genuinely stunned that there could be such a massive difference.
This is one of the reasons higher quality acoustic guitars have to be maintained at a controlled humidity. That’s also a good argument for a decent quality guitar made with laminated top, sides and back. I live in Florida, so the huge swings in humidity going from AC inside to nearly 100% Rh outside can really stress an instrument.
Even if you believe they are unnecessary, it would have been good if you mentioned moisture meters in this video.
And purple walnut actually sounds kind of nice.
Living in the high desert, it's a huge perk to dry my own lumber fairly easily and quickly. So grateful to not need a kiln
An eternal hot topic deftly explained in detail. Southwest wood butchers have a much more critical view of moisture content. Buying a length of thin trim from a store and driving it home causes the trim to irreparably twist and curl. I found a better solution is simply to buy a handful of paint stir sticks and work out a system to use the straight smaller lengths for the project. An interesting aspect of internal wood stress is trying to size lumber to as close to perfectly straight as possible. If one side of a length of lumber is ripped on a saw, then the whole length distorts to a varying degree. For free standing projects this is a major issue. Making straight picture frame moulding I found the same solution used by the few pros who fashion custom wood propellers. After each rip cut the lumber must rest to self equalize to the new shape. When equalized the sawyer then determine his next milling procedure to get to straight finished dimension. Very specific mini determinations. It can be done, but slowly and carefully.
That haircut is looking so fresh and so clean clean
I used to work with an old pattern maker who was trained in the late 40’s and early 50’s. He said that in the shops he worked at in the early part of his career they wouldn’t touch a piece of wood (pine or cherry mostly) unless it had dried for at least 30-40 years.
Thanks for another great, educational video. What tool do you recommend for measuring the moisture content?
I think your videos are great, but I think you misspoke around 6:10- I assume you meant "I'll normally use *kiln* dried, unless I'm doing a project that involves steam bending- then I'll use *air* dried".
Keep up the good work, looking forward to the next one!
I meant to say I prefer kiln dried except in those specific instances listed.
I am a Nuclear - Mechanical engineer (degree vs career). Nice and accurate explanation.
I store my woodworking lumber in a rather unique way - it works very well for me. I hang my lumber from the floor joists in the cellar limiting me to rather short lengths. I install an eye hook in the joist and a combined eye hook and snap catch in the end grain of the lumber. Accordingly, there are no sticker marks in the wood, air circulation can't be beat and selecting the wood is like going into a rug store. Storage density is just as good as a rug store.
Hi I always love new shows from you and this was no exception. I do have a question however because I have had a warping issue on a screen door I made and the lumberyard fellas said that I needed kiln dried lumber instead and that indeed was the reason as it didn’t rewarp the second time around. My question should be why do I have to do everything twice…..but seriously I use treated lumber for more than screen doors I’m in the middle of a giant swingset at the moment and the treated wood IS wet like extremely from the wolmanization process so when would you recommend it to be workable enough?
You're not lying about overly dried wood being difficult to work. I was trying to build a table with air dried pine in Syria that was probably around 1% and that stuff was harder to work than white oak
I live in Colorado, and I can tell you that it is plenty dry enough to air dry.
Your thumbnail blurb reads like an old Inquirer headline "Air dried lumber abducted my husband and replaced him with an exact duplicate!" :D
I assume kiln-dried lumber absorbs atmospheric moisture over time - is there any difference between (properly) kiln-dried lumber and air-dried lumber that's been stored for a year or two? Or maybe does that mean that kiln-dried lumber can "go bad" if not used quickly enough in a humid environment like the deep south?
we can make a whole video about acclimating lumber to the environment!? yes please!
Have any experience with vacuum-dried? It's supposed to be even more stable than traditional kiln-dried, but I've never gotten to try it myself.
Could you do a video on identifying different species of wood ?
When I take from my large slabs in the garage the pieces I mill up will come into the house for a week or two to adjust to being inside a house. I haven't really had any issues.
Fisch bits made in Austria, yea baby xD
Greetings from Austria
I co-own a sawmill and we do the work "normal" sawmills don't usually do, like using the Dutch cut and other usually labour intensive cuts that provides a higher quality of lumber, split and hewn posts and boards. We do all the work ourselves besides kiln drying due to space and cost. Some of our wood has been outside drying for 15years, this means it might not be completely dry but it is pretty much stabilized and has almost no internal tension left and is something you don't come by very often. Our customers are mainly small furniture makers or instrument builders. We also cut wood harvested from urban areas and cities that are riddled with nails, screws, chains, squirrels, etc. and sometimes even concrete, insulation or a bicycle sometimes. Most sawmills don't even cut stuff like that because a sawblade/band can cost up to €2000 and is pretty much irreparable after one screw. We work together with local companies and sponsoring for bandsaw blades and have pretty much all kinds of blades available to do weird stuff. It's really interesting how the slightest thing can affect the drying process of wood and make a difference in good quality lumber and a bunch of sticks. It's also fascinating how sometimes the old way is insanely efficient if you have a good process. We are also pretty much the only sawmill that has actual dimensional lumber in stock that is the correct measurement.
Apologies for the big read, got a bit carried away and can go on, but it's time to stop 😅
Do you recommend a specific moisture meter?
I purchased a General brand meter that didn’t give me much confidence in the readings.
KD forever!! Make sure your final MC is consistent with regional equilibrium MC. Upper midwest? Perhaps 8.5% ; coastal NC? Maybe 11%. Rocky Mts? 6.5% for sure. HVAC consistency becomes important, too. Overdry lumber easily expands and blows off trim and opens crown molding joints when spring comes around where I live. Select low expansion coefficient species. NOT red oak, for example. ......Great subject. Thanks.
retired now but i preferred working with air dried over kiln dried. maybe because thats all we had when i trained. air drying can be a real hit or miss affair. i remember getting an oak trunk from a neighbour which i had milled into 1 and 2 inch boards. sat them in the carport for two years. the 1 inch boards were fine and worked well. however, all the 2 inch boards had cracked and split inside the board, which you didn't see until you started cutting them. this is in nz where oak trees grow a lot faster than in europe or north america which may have something to do with it. to be honest i doubt kiln drying would have prevernted this. i guess what i am saying is you never know what you have till you work it.
the record I've seen was a project where pine 1X12 was ripped into 1X4 sticks. there was a stick with nearly 2 feet of deflection from warpage.
I wish my thermostat said 35% humidity. Mine never drops below 50%. Stupid Florida weather.
Did I hear that right? At 6:12, I personally prefer air dried lumber... BUT... I might prefer air dried lumber instead.
I meant to say I prefer kiln dried except in those specific instances listed.
My mother was so angry when we went to the hardware store (a big box store) and the posts we were planning on buying for a fence were soaking wet. I had to explain that the wood is kind dried, then pressure treated with arsenic-treated water and shipped wet. I have let them dry for a week and they are now green. I've got some cleaning to do now. It was hard enough to direct the teenager to the posts I saw that were the least likely to twist. So sad.
There is a large sawmill near me that saws pine, spruce and fir construction lumber. They air dry their rough sawn lumber for 6-8 months before finishing it in the kiln.
There's a "trick" I learned from a guy that runs a sawmill near where I live, in north east of Brazil. If you have green wood, cut in into rough boards (that you can cut later to usable sizes) and put it into a creek or a small river with some weight over it to prevent it from floating. Let it into flowing water for two or three months. Once you take them out of the water, let them dry in the shade. It'll dry much faster, and with a lot less splitting.
There is a trade off, it leeches out some of the hardness of the wood, making it more pliable generally. The resins and things are a factor in the differential drying issues so this can be even better than kiln drying depending on circumstances, wood, etc.
Wood 'treated' like this in the sewer water of venice is theorised for the acoustic properties of Stradivarius violins.
It is also done with coppiced wood for wicker construction and things like that. Not so much a trick as a traditional technique for certain woods.
@@mandowarrior123 thanks, I didn't know that. I got a few boards of a wood known here as cedro rosa (I think it might translate roughly to pink cedar or something like that) that I used to build a guitar, neck and body, in a set neck construction. 3 years later, still no twists in the neck.
@@mandowarrior123 "Wood 'treated' like this in the sewer water of venice is theorised for the acoustic properties of Stradivarius violins. "
Along with a thousand other theories that sound good, but will never be proven :)
I've been working on guitars for 50 years, and the amount of literature, and theories, I've read about Stadivari's work is mind-boggling.
Great advice! Have you ever compared lumber dried in different types of kilns? I work at a mill with conventional steam kilns, but I've heard of solar kilns and vacuum kilns. Just wondering if there's a big difference in the end result?
Vacuum kilns are more even as I understand.
Any recommendations for good value moisture meters for timber?
Great educational video but you got me confused. Near the end of the video (6.16) you mention two times to prefer ‘air-dried’-wood also when you plan to steam-bend wood or when you’re planning to work a lot with hand tools(?)
Another variable for walnut is whether it''s been kiln dried with steam, this makes the sap wood darker and the heart wood lighter, and generally ruins the wonderful color variation that walnut naturally has (in my opinion at least). Unfortunately, most commercially dried walnut is steamed, so I tend to go out of my way to find smaller mills that dry it without steam.
Here in Denver we're not quite a desert climate (semi-arid, technically), but the humidity is low enough that air drying can get wood down to below 10% without much effort - put it in a garage and will dry faster than the 1 year per inch rule. Wood tends to air dry so fast here that it's important to get the end grain sealed within a couple of months of cutting the tree.
Another great vid' but you forgot to mention that kiln drying dries the timber out relatively quickly. This can damage the cellular structure, which may lead to a more aggressive water and mold penetration when exposed to moisture. Used internally, kiln dried should not be a problem. However, for external use, I would recommend that kiln dried timber is either vacuum treated and/or given an effective waterproof finish.
Good stuff, as always. But I think you misspoke at 6:15 and meant "kiln dried".
If I am in a desert environment can I help to prevent case hardening by milling in the fall and letting it sit though as much cold dry winter as possible before baking it?
Your red wings look good this year .
Love using air dried lumber
Awesome video. Did you mis-spoke at 6:15? " I prefer to use air dried lumber. .... But... then I might prefer air dried lumber"
yeah I built the base of my workbench out of air dried lumber (except the wood for the tenants). but the top is wood that was decoration for chimneys. so it has been indoors for more than 30 years for the least. It won't move a lot anymore. But I still expect it to move out of allignment a little. but the one thing I'm concerned with is the flatness of the top and a 90 degree side to this top. The 90 degree side will be not to tough to maintain, although it requires dissassembling the bench. (just attached the top to the base with large screws, works absolutely fine due to it's own mass, oak). And to flatten the top I will in a few years just have to clean up like 3-4 mm of material to get it dead flat with a router sled. but as it is now it's flat enough, yet I'm waiting for it to move over the years, before taking off material.
Recommended moisture meter?
What about outdoor projects? Don’t you also end up with problems when kiln dried stuff ends up acclimating to the outdoor moisture level? Especially boats? Is it kiln indoor air dried outdoor? Or does Kiln get locked down like beef jerky where it will never take back up the outside moisture enough to warp and stress a finished product?
Is there a moisture meter you recommend?
I read somewhere long ago, that you could easily "kiln dry" your own lumber and have it come out consistent every time at 6 to 8% by just covering your stack with heavy 8 mil plastic sheeting, and putting a work lamp with a hundred watt incandescent bulb under there. That single incandescent bulb puts out a surprising amount of heat for it's size, and over days or weeks, it will dry out the lumber to a consistent level.
I've never tried this myself, but it sounded plausible to me. Seems like that would be an economical solution for those who wanted the ease of air drying, but the consistency of kiln dried lumber.