SUPERCHARGED 4.8L vs 6.0L Full BOOSTED Results!
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- čas přidán 5. 01. 2020
- Supercharged Shoot Out-4.8L versus 6.0L. We test the effect of displacement on power by comparing a modified 4.8L to a larger 6.0L both NA and with a Vortech Supercharger. Both motors were run with the same blower, intercooler and pulley combo. What happens to power and boost when you step up to the larger motor?
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the questions we all want answered and nobody wants to test! Your video series is pure gold!!!!!!!
Talk with hands, in short statements, youtubers love it, happy new years, and have a good day
I don't lol. Ps. You'll probably like my channel if you're into cars. Over 2,600 car videos and counting
Really enjoy your channel. No nonsense straight to the numbers and results, no bs.
I learned that if a boosted 4.8 is good, a pair of billet wheel S480's on a 540 BBC with some Brodix BB3 Extra O CNC ported heads is better. You've now spent the college fund for all my unborn children. You're the best Richard!
I like my L20 4.8L. I have the Gen 4 engine so the rods are stronger and I have the good flowing 799 heads that I lightly ported. Along with a TSP stage 2 turbo cam, CHE rocker trunion upgrade, PAC660 springs, LS7 lifters and new GM trays and VVT delete along with a 76/75 turbo kit, 80lb injectors and a Walbro 450 pump and a built 4L80E. Such a great daily sleeper with around 650RWHP
That would be POTENT in a Fbody man
@@TheJMan1K you aren't lying there. Probably why you can barely find any Gen4 4.8L engines anywhere. Lol. It would definitely be a reliable killer on the street no doubt. Hell even at the track in a bracket or index class it would be fun as hell to race.
Love the 4.8 stuff
This is perfect! Haven’t watched it all yet but really wanted to know.
Great stuff Richard, and congrats on clearing the 10k subscriber level pretty quickly! Can't wait to see that next video!!!
Awesome content, subscribed instantly! You describe everything amazingly! I will watch every video!
loving the new audio setup
OH MY GOD !! THANK YOU for working your ass off to educate me ! (US)
Congratulations on 10k Subs Richard!!!👍👍👍
thnx
hell yeah, excited for the next video. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for sharing the comparison of engine combos . Like your school of training!! Hot Rod On !!!!!
Subscribed! Great vids so far, this video makes me happy I’m starting out with a 6.0 first
Remember boost pressure is a measure of resistance!
Nice test, thanks Richard!
You are the man richard growing fast man you deserve it
4.8’s are fantastic for boost. Short stroke, thick walls, iron block, etc. put in some good internals, good heads and the right cam, they can make 1000 easy.
Stock internals it made over 1000 hp
What about 5.3 iron blocks? Or should I just spend for the 6.0
@@Ismaelj100 All depends on your goals. Iron block 5.3 Will work just fine. The 4.8 provides a little more wall is all, but the Stroke is the same for both 4.8 and 5.3 if I recall correctly.
The 6.0 is always tempting and are solid. If you’re going ground up I’d start with a 6.0 block myself, but if I had an iron block 5.3 already I could see myself sticking with that.
I’ve built many boosted 4.8’s and 5.3’s that last longer than, or are comparable 6.0’s.
Just my thoughts. Good luck!
@@steveg2277incorrect there same bore on 4.8/5.3 the 4.8 has a shorter stroke and different pistons
Awesome content as always!
Great job like always Richards..
Meaaaaaaaaaan you just keep making this awesome content. keep up the excellent work.
Awesome video. Thanks Richard
I like the videos like this. 15min range is about perfect.
Holdener killing it again! Video suggestion: 6.0 big cam/small runner heads vs 6.0 baby cam/big runner heads.
Very happy to see you so this combination is very similar to a what I am putting in 71 Buick GS
love those cars
Would love to see the difference between a PD cam and a Centri cam on the same engine; both NA and under boost.
Good stuff man, I know u can't make everyone happy but since your pretty much the LS wizard, I'd really like to see tips or do's n dont's, also very much like to see the items you choose to not put a lot of money into and the things you think getting nice parts for is important. Thanks for the videos. Glad I could hear this one 😂
Great video, thanks for doing this.. You mention that even on a positive displacement supercharger the results would have been same. Don't positive displacement scoop same amount of air from the charger intake and therefore if you ignore leaks should produce approx same power on both motors, provided it's appropriately sized. Ofcource the boost will be vastly different.
thank you for this video i am trying to figure out what to build for my c6
Great video Richard! As a follow up, how about installing a turbo(s) on either engine, same boost level, to compare blower vs turbo HP/torque! Videos have greatly improved! Thank you, Tony
Turbos will make more power at the same level bc of the drag of the supercharger. Thats power to make power with a supercharger... And it will be impossible to run the same test as superchargers bc ot the linear boost level. A turbo will come in alot sooner.
@@chrisfuller8584 I'm not a know-it-all and I don't have a power adder, I'm nobody, I agree with everything you said, but the last sentence, I've never heard or talked to a racer that says a turbo comes in sooner, but I had heard them complain about losing because they didn't spool, superchargers are spool from the get-go are they not? Turbos run off exhaust pressure. One of us is awfully confused it's probably me , I'll have to double-check I have a four-wheel drive truck and was planning on a supercharger because of what I thought I heard everyone else say. I hope you're right I can turbo cheaper than a supercharger.
good wording on the explanation at the end
This is good content! I like to finally see some Hemi content and I’m not a dodge man! Dodge really supports us straight line guys!
A great test and comparo 💪🤛👌
great vid thanks richard.
Good work!
Great video! I'm wondering how the flow numbers compared , if you have them, between the TF 205's and the ported 234's? Also, relative static CR between the two combinations?
The old adage, no replacement for displacement. And all that I've really taken away is that, boost is a measure of restriction, not horsepower. You want big power, start with an engine that can breath well. So that when you add boost. It only enhances what you have. Instead of masking what you dont.
Remember Bernoulli principle of venturi effect, take a 5 inch pipe and taper down to 3 inches, in 5 inches air pressure is higher but air velocity is lower, as air goes through the venturi (taper) air pressure is reduced and air velocity increases. If you go back to 5 inches the air pressure increases and velocity decreases
This is great. I would love to see you do a redo with David on methanol injection but real methanol injection by alki control. They use a hundred percent methanol alcohol instead of something like boost juice which has water in it. (Yes water will cool the intake charge but but makes no power ).keep up the great videos very very informative thank you.
Had a nitrous cam been tested in a boosted application. Have a friend thinking of going boost. And is currently a nitrous car. Just curious of the results?? Awesome vids btw I watched them all.
I love these videos
These videos are the best and very knowledgeable. Can you please use more junk yard engines lq4s specifically lol. I think a test on 706, 799/243, 317, 823 heads on junk yard lq4 with the same cam N/A and turbo would be wicked
Hello. I been checking out your videos. So awesome sir. Not to sure if you have a video out already on this topic. Motors that are N/A application / super charger friendly 242 /251@50 lsa 14+4.... but decide to go in the turbo direction.. will back pressure play a factor, will it hurt power up top.. or will it on lose a few hp compared to a turbo cam application
Great video Richard as always. If you can continue to give us fuel and timing, e85 I'm assuming 😉 18 degrees????
I'd like to see a test on coolant temperature vs knock threshold on a boosted engine. E85 and pump
Would you be interested in a video discussing VE and it's effect on NA , SC and turbo applications? Does a good VE (such as Honda H and K series) mean that you can take better advantage of high flow FI applications? Also, does a lower VE mean that you have better low and mid range power. I noticed that most stock turbo engines have a low VE compared to equivalent power and displacement NA engines. How does that apply to the massive difference in torque/power curves as well as overall thermal efficiency? Love this series and keep up the awesome content.
Boost multiplies what is there-a powerful na motor equates to a powerful FI motor. That's why motors like the B or K-series Honda make so much power under boost relative to their displacement
fantastic content. its like engine masters but with more detail as to why the results are the way they are.
i expected the result to be that with the same pulley setup the 4.8 would have more boost (due to it being more of an airflow restriction than the 6.0) i didnt expect the 6.0 to make that much more power than the 4.8 though, i thought the HP would be much closer together and the boost difference would be larger if everything else was equal except capacity.
i love watching holdner, but thats not to discredit engine masters. totally different approach and delivery of the content. if engine masters was asked to do a 4.8/6.0 comparison under same boost conditions, and they chose to do it, they would do it similarly. No need to discredit one to prop up another. MTOD does a good job in my opinion with the engine masters show!
Steven W the cams made the most difference. The 6.0 had a way more agressive cam and heads. Plus the 4.8 is supposed to be revved higher. Redline for those is in the 7000-7300 range. It’s not a fair test at all.
Dude, if you want to test the real effect of displacement use the exact same heads and cam as well. This here was a sham.
the 6.0 was still climbing really hard at 6500rpm too.
Except engine masters is about some pretty gnarly setups
Keep the vids coming!!!!! What was the compression on the 6.0 im copying the build
That 4.8 is impressive holy cow.
Jose Gutierrez It’s very reliable and very underrated but a lot of people miss out on this engines and go bigger.
As always, awesome work! A 25% larger engine, similarly upgraded, should produce these results, I'd think. Specific output comparison show the bigger engine being strong low, losing it's advantage as revs climb. Small engine had more relative flow than ideal down low, big one ran out of excess breathing ability on top. Boost/backpressure would obviously be lower, since it's taking bigger bites.
Great comparison goes to show more cfm is needed at the same rpm cubic inch displacement shows the power
Subbed. Liking the videos. No bs. Just facts.
Here is an interesting comparison. How about he 4.8L vs the L25 292 cubic inch straight six?
So what’s more recommended I have a 4.8 at the moment runs great good strong motor I always get the launch on 5.3 and 6.0 but wanna Compare before I buy a 6.2 motor
For Centrifugal Superchargers do you use the same Blower cams you would use on a positive displacement supercharger, or is there a specific type better suited for centrifugal?
Richard, if you raised the static com ratio would that be the same as raising the boost.
your vids are great, just facts like we need. now if you would just include links to the parts your using that would be great too. thanks , axld
I get that bigger motor more power but being only 150hp apart whats the horsepower per cubic inch on both motors are they closer than we think on power out put after factoring in size of engine
I noticed that when boosted you didn't bring either engine to as high of an RPM as you did when the engines were NA. I know from experience that when you put a Centrifugal supercharger on a given engine that the engine simply will not rev as high as the NA version of itself. I'm surprised that you did not mention that. Thank you for all of the amazing videos, Richard. We gobble this shit right up!
I haven't found what you describe to be true. In fact, the risking boost curve offered by a centrifugal increases the rpm where the motor makes peak power. Power was still climbing when we shut it off
@@richardholdener1727 oh really? That's never been my findings with the Prochargers I have installed. Either way I love your videos man!
Power will start to fall if you reach the upper limits of the supercharger rpm even if you're only at say 5800 rpm on the engine. Such as a D1SC on a 6.0 with a 3.x pulley
Really should have revved that 4.8 to 7200-7500 range. That’s what makes the 4.8 great is the short throw crank (3.27) You can see on the graph too it wanted to keep pushing. I bet the numbers would have been a lil closer and utilized the best part of the 4.8 Being able to rev it ouuuttttt
What compression ratio would you recommend for my forged ls2 on 94 pump gas @ 12 PSI with PD blower?
Great content as always
10.0 or slightly less
I’d really be interested in seeing the difference in a 4.8 vs 5.3. Everyone is using the 5.3 these days.
Kfx Guy +++
Kfx Guy I mean, this comparison is flawed. The cam in the 4.8 wasn’t nearly as agressive as the 6.0. Plus the 4.8 likes to rev higher. He should’ve used same cam and heads to make a fair comparison.
Tommy Hathaway I really meant to post that this morning. Truth be told, I was driving and listening to it. I couldn’t watch it and the cam specs weren’t retained in my memory. I had planned on going back and watching it. If the heads, cam and compression aren’t the same. Then the test isn’t really comparable.
@@tommyhathaway9190 the ci difference makes a comparison like that very flawed. honestly i'm not sure what would make the most accurate comparison but I'd think it would have to be heads and cams that brought evened out their respective thermodynamic efficiencies.
the results are linear 72 cubes gave 150 hp na and sc. 4.8 to 5.3 is approx 40 cubes or 80 more hp on a 5.3
Can you bore and stroke a 4 8 to 6.0? Also would the 706 heads still make the same compression with the much larger bore or would a different head be better for that?
Hi Richard , I love your videos , where do you get those cool t shirts?
Was there a reason you couldn't spin the 6.0 to 6,900 rpm, like belt slip?
What I took away from the video is how slowly those centricals build boost. My Kenne Bell 2.8 on my 6.1 hemi makes 12 lbs from 2000 rpm all the way to 6400. Will be sticking with my more area under the curve blower.
If a more aggressive boost curve is desired it really is as simple as swapping pullies.
those work well
screws are generally more efficient at lower rpms, centries are generally more efficient at higher rpms. screws are for people who need the low-end torque advantage and are willing to spend more, while centries can cost less, weigh less, and be easier to package. Higher Wheel Torque can be achieved thru lower transmission gearing anyway. Centries have wider choice of intercooling options too.
i guess screws have the advantage on drag strips with prepped pavements, ice tank on the trunk, and drag slicks. Centries may have an advantage on circuit tracks where there's no prep and too much torque on a corner exit can cause trouble.
You cant really compare a positive displacement blower to a centrifugal blower they are 2 different animals
I would also like to see the difference in the two motors with turbos. I’ve always looked at 4.8 destroked abilities and wonder how efficient it would be compared to say a 5.3 with a longer stroke.
the 5.3L will make more power assuming same mods
I've got a lq9 with stock square port heads and intake and tb with 227 231 cam. I would love to see how mine would do under boost.
check out the LS3 vs 317 head test
With the same supercharger at 13.5 Psi I started with a cam similar to the 4.8 in my 5.7 and changed to cam like what the 6.0 has aand could run 8 degrees more timing and made 120 RWHP extra you should try the same test with that cam in from the 6.0 in the 4.8 on boost. Centrifugal blowers like na type cams with extra exhaust lobe.
Here in Aus we are de-stroking the aussie 6 from 4.0 to 3.7lt to let her rev. Guys are seeing 10500rpm with them and over 2000whp. Id be interested to see where the 4.8 tapers off using the same head and cam as the 6.0 Can see in your test even as was the 4.8 wanted to climb.
Excellent
What size injectors would you need for the lq4?
Normally aspirated 572 is very tempting!
Can you do a test with a 6.0 and compare a 2.25”, 2.5” and 3” hotside 👀
Since the parts are interchangeable could you do a test where you make everything more identical? With only big difference being displacement.
the 205 heads are not good for the 4.0 inch bore and the big bore heads are not great for the small bore motor
Richard, quick question. Ive been getting a lot of mixed feedback on my setup. Stock L-76 block and heads (just stainless intake and inconel exhaust valves), 4.005 bore, 4" stroke forged Manley rotating assembly (longer h-beams) with 2618, 11:1 pistons, AP/ductile file fit). Stage 4 Brian Tooley PDS cam, stock LSA blower with Griptech, Holley LS Swap (69 Chevelle) long tubes. Its ARP studded mains and heads with MLS head gasket. Plan was to run E-85 plus methanol injection. Ive been getting estimates of 600hp at the wheels (T-56 Magnum) to 800hp+ depending on how much methanol. Lots of people questioned my choice to run 11:1 with a screw blower, but my reasoning was exactly what you stated in this video and others, stronger base engine/less boost needed to make big numbers. My goal was to be able to handle Hellcats and ZL-1s/Vettes and all the other late model blower cars. What do you think? The motor and trans swap is scheduled to begin in 2 weeks...
your power output will be dictated by the flow rate of the stock blower
As always, displacement and airflow + boost = more power. Hence the reason my turbo combo is starting out as a 6.0, vs the 5.3 I had originally. Plus the LS3 heads flowing better and being less shrouded than they would be on the 5.3.
Depends on your goal , a turbo 5.3 can make well over 1000hp without breaking a sweat .
@@dilsher12 agreed. But with how much boost and with what fuel? No I'm not suggesting trying to make 1000 on 93 octane. I'd rather make as much power as I can on 93 before even going meth. Bigger displacement and better heads make that a lot easier. And the right turbo/supercharger.
@@jaydubb71 If you are octane limited , having bigger displacement helps for sure . I'm running a gen4 alu 5.3/S475 and had to run water/ meth to go past 10psi of boost, no E85 here . Running 17lbs now and over 700whp and its more than enough for me as its primarily a street driven truck . 6.0 and ls3 heads are a very good budget friendly combo .
@@dilsher12 again, agreed. I'm not too octane limited here. Just don't want to rely on Meth. We have some E here in the DMV area but until it's widespread E availability, I'll try to stick with 93 with a dash of meth.
So there's no replacement for displacement. I'd really like to see a comparo of old trucks VS new truck. 406 with AFR heads VS 6.0 LQ94with AFR heads and good intakes.
John Rock Hey John they did this test way back: Chevy Small Block Dyno Tests - Old School Meets New
It was a good read, the hp and torque were the same. But of course there was complaining that the gen I was to radical for the street, this is always the most ridiculous thing (hot rodders say). They need to drive a Prius instead!
Have always considered this comparison Richard, thx. One thing that may skew a comparison with engine size using a turbo is back pressure against the rear housing with the bigger cube engine, what do you think?
it will
@@richardholdener1727 would be a good test. I always figured the smaller engine would make the same power but at a proportionally higher rpm, but surely the bigger engine would make more torque earlier on... there's some maths there to think about
I am waiting on 6.0 vs 6.2 dyno testing. Is that over bore really worth the extra money and can the stock 706 head flow enough for a 6.2 and i know thw 6.2 is rectangle port but still. Annd I would also like to see a big bang episode with Nitrous just keep pulling it till it backfires or explodes
I did that unsuccessfully once already-need to try again
Test 243 vs 706 heads on a lq4 with a comp low lift 212/218 cam. Which would make a better daily?
i would use milled 243 on the LQ4
Durability test on both would be interesting
Can you give me the list for the 6.0 to build..
Hey I’m tryna build a race car with the gen4 6.0 what all should I use under 10k
Did that blower spin clockwork or counter clockwise?
what were the Intake Manifold Air Temperature deltas?
Gale Banks
I would love to see a comparison between two turbo systems with bigger/longer intake tracks. Such as a traditional turbo system compared to a rear mount turbo system. The big question on bigger intake volume vs lag.
I would like this test with the same heads and cam.. then add boost
You mean to say the old adage is true?
There's no replacement for displacement.
Proving the old adage of no substitute for cubic inches!
I dont know if this has actually been done yet, but what about a junkyard test? What I mean is testing all stock engines using junkyard parts. To some people that doesn't seem all that interesting, but these LS type engines used different heads. Some had larger chambers, while the others had smaller ones. The media I've seen seems to be filled with confusion as to what heads would achieve power gains. I know some don't have the funds for the fancy equipment that you use. There's too many people asking questions that just aren't being answered correctly. Most of the answers I've actually seen were based on opinions, rather than facts. Nice videos.
Can I have all the parts names & sizes and links for the kit, think I'm gonna get this for my 6.0l
I DON'T HAVE THAT INFO-CHECK WITH VORTECH
NEW SUB,ALBERTA CANADA
Hey Richard I need help with my Ls 6.0 what can I do to make it fast
what hp do you want?
Just gotta spin that 4.8 to 7800-8000, man that would sound wicked
Id love to see the difference the same combo on the same motor with lower compression makes. I figure that boost helps mask low compression right? I have a 4.5 ltr v8 in my Mercedes and they are stupid low compression and make like 200hp. I know" LS swap it" but I'd like to keep the Benz power if possible. I've got stacks of them. I really only need 300-350hp for drifting. Any more and it gets more tire expensive. So test a 8-1 and a 9-1 on the same combo? On like a shitty 305 or 4.6 pleasse!!
Nice videos bro! Any videos on 302 & 351w Superchaged?
I have tested those a lot-will post some
Richard Holdener Im looking to do an junkyard 351w roller motor that came out of an f150. I gonna keep the bottom end stock . I’m gonna add a roller cam & take my Trickflow 170 heads off my 302 & Vortech v3 Superchager. How much power do you estimate at 10psi?
What size injectors? On 6.0?
4.8 + nitrous? Good idea?
Why no dyno vids ?